I have a situation...

[tarepanda]

I just bought a pair of shoes today at Lee's Badminton. Hi-Tec Adrenalin Pro is the name of the shoes. I wore them on the and ran around the court for about 10 minutes and found them to be pretty good. Only thing is, I noticed that they were used when I was trying them out. They didn't have any more of the same sizes or I would of asked for another pair of them because I like these a lot. I wanted to ask her if I could of had more of a discount on the shoes because they were in the kind of condition but I didn't because the's owners friends were there so I didn't want to make a scene of the owner selling used stuff as new. I'm going back there tomorrow to play badminton but I want to talk to her about this. I don't know how to approach her with this topic though... I was thinking I would tell her that I didn't want to make a scene and put it off until today and ask her if I could have a discount on the string job that I got from her place instead or something like that. What should I do?

Tare Panda

[bigredlemon]

It'll be harder to do this after you already bought them since the jennifer wouldn't know whether it was already used or if you used it yourself. Stores let people try out the shoes all the time so being slighty dirty probably won't get you a discount. If there was signs of wear and tear, I don't think you should have bought them at all.

[Han]

As long as you like the shoes and they're still in excelent condition then why care about "brand new" espcially after you've wore and played on court for sometime. Doesn't make sense to make any scene and lower your your own pride. Just take it.

[Yodums]

Agreed. I think that the discount wouldn't be major and whether or not it was used, it is still fine I guess. Unless it is a huge tear (Don't think it would be since you wouldn't buy it anyways), then no need to worry over it. Another thing is that when you come back, the first thing they'll ask you why you didn't inform them immediatly and they'll take everything you say as an excuse. ;) Returning shoes suck. If they are even worn they won't even accept them.

[tarepanda]

I guess you guys are right. I'll let it go this time but should I inform her about this though? On the box they said they were "used". And this was written right on the box.

Tare Panda

[badrad]

Originally posted by tarepanda
On the box they said they were "used". And this was written right on the box. Why did you leave this statement out in your original post? From your original post you have given us the impression that you were somehow ripped off or something, and there justify some form of recompensation. There is no issue at all here, other than you want a better deal after the fact. Well, too late...

[Cheung]

Originally posted by tarepanda
I wore them on the and ran around the court for about 10 minutes and found them to be pretty good. Only thing is, I noticed that they were used when I was trying them out. They didn't have any more of the same sizes or I would of asked for another pair of them because I like these a lot. I wanted to ask her if I could of had more of a discount on the shoes


Originally posted by tarepanda
I'll let it go this time but should I inform her about this though? On the box they said they were "used". And this was written right on the box.
Tarepanda,

Let me get this straight. You bought a pair of shoes which you noticed were used when you tried them out. You ask if you should have asked for "more" of a discount, implying that there was already a discount. The box already says "used".

you didn't want to ask for more of a discount at the time because you didn't want to create a scene. And now you want to see if you can get some money back from the transaction.

Now, ask yourself, if you were the one in business selling the shoes and somebody came up to ask some money back days after a transaction, after buying a pair of used shoes (and knowing full well they were used), what would you say to that person??

[wood_22_chuck]

Originally posted by Cheung
Tarepanda,

<snip>

Now, ask yourself, if you were the one in business selling the shoes and somebody came up to ask some money back days after a transaction, after buying a pair of used shoes (and knowing full well they were used), what would you say to that person??

<bleep> *#%%* shoes <BLEEEEEP> <BLEEEP> USED!!! #$#% NOW?!!!

[tarepanda]

Ok! I admit I was dumb. But I only noticed that they said "used" on the side of the box when I came home.

Cheung...
This was just yesterday. If I was the owner, I would have nothing to say if only overnight the shoes lost all the stickers inside the shoe due to wear and tear (very evident due to one sticker remaining in one of the shoes which is faded and looks used more than once to me).

Tare Panda

[tarepanda]

And when I noticed they were used at Lee's when I was trying them out, didn't think too much about it because I would think that someone else was trying them out on the court. so yeah...

Tare Panda

[LazyBuddy]

Tarepanda,


I can understand ur situation. However, a done deal is a done deal. It's true if there's just a small sign on the side, it might be ignored easily. But it's more like the customer's own responsibility to carefully check the product before checking out.

I don't think you should really bargining for more chips again, it will only create some unnecessary unhappiness but not going to get anything done. Also, a lot of "used item" do not qualify for return policy. Therefore, additional discount in related services should not be easily to get, either.

To me, the only thing u should do is. Next time, before spending $$$, think twice. Carefully check the product, see whether the little saving worth all the worries later or not. Maybe ask urself when u see an amazing price, is that really on sale or just "used"? Somtimes, 5 min more work before checking out, could save up tons of energy and unhappiness afterward.

[bigredlemon]

If you didn't notice it was used and the owner the store didn't mention it to you, then the store is being dishonest. The store is required to tell you if the item was used (or refurbished). It's not up to you to discover whether it's new or used no matter how obvious it may be unless you're being wilfully blind, which doesn't appear to be the case here. You agreed to buy new shoes, not used ones. I'd go back to the store and tell them you are going to return it because they mislead you by not telling you they were used.

Then buy a new pair or some other shoe they do have in stock. Or tell them that since they don't have other new shoes of the same size and model, you're willing to keep it for a discount. This is only fair since the price you agreed to was the price had it been new or slightly demoed, not used. A free stringing is probably the most favourable option for all sides, as you suggested.

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
If you didn't notice it was used and the owner the store didn't mention it to you, then the store is being dishonest. The store is required to tell you if the item was used (or refurbished). It's not up to you to discover whether it's new or used no matter how obvious it may be unless you're being wilfully blind, which doesn't appear to be the case here. You agreed to buy new shoes, not used ones. I'd go back to the store and tell them you are going to return it because they mislead you by not telling you they were used.

Then buy a new pair or some other shoe they do have in stock. Or tell them that since they don't have other new shoes of the same size and model, you're willing to keep it for a discount. This is only fair since the price you agreed to was the price had it been new or slightly demoed, not used. A free stringing is probably the most favourable option for all sides, as you suggested.

See... This is how I feel but I just don't know how to say it. Should I say that yeah, yesterday I noticed that the shoes were used but I didn't want to make scene in your store with other customers in it. I was planning to return them for a new pair or I would keep these with a little more discount on them or better yet, half price on the string job that I'm got. (I don't want to stretch it too much, half price is enough for me.)

But you see, I'm also afraid that what LazyBuddy said will happen. I wanna be friends with the owner and don't want to ruin the start of what looks like a good friendship. So I was just thinking I should just tell her to be more careful next time cause you lose customers like this. I don't know. I guess I'll decide when I get there cause I think that bigredlemon is right but also lazybuddy is right. I'll tell you guys the result tonight when I come back from badminton.

Tare Panda

[kwun]

Originally posted by tarepanda

But you see, I'm also afraid that what LazyBuddy said will happen. I wanna be friends with the owner and don't want to ruin the start of what looks like a good friendship. So I was just thinking I should just tell her to be more careful next time cause you lose customers like this. I don't know. I guess I'll decide when I get there cause I think that bigredlemon is right but also lazybuddy is right. I'll tell you guys the result tonight when I come back from badminton.

Tare Panda

imho, if you want to say something, that's the most you should say. if the owner's are cool, they may give you discount voluntarily, but don't press it if they don't say a thing.

we can only give our opinions, and our opinions will never be unanimous, the final choice is yours. but let us know what happens if you do talk to them.

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by kwun
imho, if you want to say something, that's the most you should say. if the owner's are cool, they may give you discount voluntarily, but don't press it if they don't say a thing.

we can only give our opinions, and our opinions will never be unanimous, the final choice is yours. but let us know what happens if you do talk to them.

I guess this is what I'll do then. Thanks for your adivce Kwun. I thank others for their advice too. This has really helped me. Oh and sorry for putting this topic in the wrong place. I wasn't sure if it should go in General, Equipment but was wrong either way. LOL.

Tare Panda

[Jay1234]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tarepanda
I'll let it go this time but should I inform her about this though? On the box they said they were "used". And this was written right on the box.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it was mentioned before... Y did u leave this out? If it did say used, you SHOULD of asked for a discount. Even if its not for a discount you should at least tell her. She had no right selling them out as brandnew shoes if they obviously wernt.

[Cheung]

In the very first post, TP wrote, "noticed used" and "more of a discount" implying there was already a discount on the shoes. So it seems the shoes were on a discount already from the information given.

Basically, I think it is a bit of a no-brainer to go back and ask for MORE discount after the transaction has been done. After all, they are trying to run a business and it is not as if they were deliberately hiding the fact the shoes were used - after all, even TP noticed they were used!!

My advice is, admit to yourself you were careless, and don't let a similar situation happen again in the future.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
If you didn't notice it was used and the owner the store didn't mention it to you, then the store is being dishonest. The store is required to tell you if the item was used (or refurbished). It's not up to you to discover whether it's new or used no matter how obvious it may be unless you're being wilfully blind, which doesn't appear to be the case here. You agreed to buy new shoes, not used ones. I'd go back to the store and tell them you are going to return it because they mislead you by not telling you they were used.


I am not quite sure about this.

I mean, unless they use a really small sign, and try to fix the sticker (worn out) by themselves, maybe u can say they try to MISLEAD ppl.

However, from what I read, I think they did the following:

1. Already gave discount.

2. Put a sign on the box. How many we need? In most of stores, used product usually only have 1 or 2 signs at most. There's no point to write "used" all over the box.

3. The broken sticker is left right there, with no hidden signs. Once u try it, u should notice relatively easily.

Therefore, I really don't see the point of "cheating" on ppl. To me, it's more down to the customers to check the product and ask for questions.

[badrad]

Box was marked - used. Shoes were noticed as used. Here's a question - did you pay full price for these shoes or was there already some discount given?

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by badrad
Box was marked - used. Shoes were noticed as used. Here's a question - did you pay full price for these shoes or was there already some discount given? the shoes were already discounted.... BUT this is Lee's.... pretty much everything is marked up and "discounted". Last time I went I only found 4 or 5 items that were not discounted. Some of her "half price" discounts end up costing as much as how much other stores charge normally anyway. Not exactly a real discount if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Also, even if it's marked used at the side, it doesn't really matter if no one told him it was used and he didn't know it was used (as opposed to demoed) while he was there.

If tarepanda knew it was used and was appropriately discounted to reflect that then it's a done deal. However, I think tarepanda meant he thought it was merely demoed and hence dirty. Now he discovered the shoe was not only used, but also significantly worn. If the discount he mentioned applied equally to brand new shoes as well, then i think it's fair to ask for some additional discount to reflect its condition.

[valourarc]

Honestly, I don't think you have any recourse. What you purchased were shoes. You had a chance to try them on and inspect them. There was no warranty, implied or expressed, that the shoes you purchased would be new. The fact that the box was marked "used" increases the probability that you knew or ought to have known that they were used when you bought them.

Now from a practical point of view, there is nothing to lose by informing the owner of your situation. They may understand and give you something to compensate you but that is completely at the discretion of the owner. If they decide to give you nothing, then you're basically SOL.

[badrad]

well, let's see what the outcome of tare panda's talk with the owner is... this in getting interesting!:p

[tarepanda]

I talked to the owner briefly about what I think and she just gave me a simple reply. The truth. Well, I know it was the truth. They had a flood in the men's washroom last time and they had all sorts of stuff on the floor get wet including the padding for the courts. They had to change all of that and some of the boxes got wet. So they put shoes in boxes that they didn't belong in. In the end she said that wrong box, new shoe kind of thing. But now I have another problem. I just restrung my newest racket (about 2 months old and which didn't have too many war wounds) at Lee's. I played with it the day that the strings were put on and the whole racket cracked when I missed and hit the head instead of the sweetspot. I can't show you the damage because I don't have a digital camera but almost the whole flat part of the head is cracked. And when I brought it home, it just broke at the 10 o'clock position a couple hours later. Could it be the stringing problem or was just that the racket was a piece of pooh? Should I go back to the place where I bought it or go to Lee's and ask for compensation?

Tare Panda

[Cheung]

So the shoe vendor didn't offer any money back to you? Not surprised really.

Take your racquet and its proof of purchase back to where you bought it from and see if you can get a replacement.

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by tarepanda
They had a flood in the men's washroom last time and they had all sorts of stuff on the floor get wet
ew ew ew ew....

note to self... don't buy shoes from lee's if they come in the wrong box...

ew ew ew :o

[Winex West Can]

Originally posted by tarepanda
I talked to the owner briefly about what I think and she just gave me a simple reply. The truth. Well, I know it was the truth. They had a flood in the men's washroom last time and they had all sorts of stuff on the floor get wet including the padding for the courts. They had to change all of that and some of the boxes got wet. So they put shoes in boxes that they didn't belong in. In the end she said that wrong box, new shoe kind of thing. But now I have another problem. I just restrung my newest racket (about 2 months old and which didn't have too many war wounds) at Lee's. I played with it the day that the strings were put on and the whole racket cracked when I missed and hit the head instead of the sweetspot. I can't show you the damage because I don't have a digital camera but almost the whole flat part of the head is cracked. And when I brought it home, it just broke at the 10 o'clock position a couple hours later. Could it be the stringing problem or was just that the racket was a piece of pooh? Should I go back to the place where I bought it or go to Lee's and ask for compensation?

Tare Panda

Definitely not back to Lee's unless you can absolutely proved that the racquet broke because of their stringing job. Best bet is to bring it back to where you bought it (as the racquet should still be under warranty and assuming that you have not voided the warranty by stringing the racquet above the recommended tension).

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by Cheung
So the shoe vendor didn't offer any money back to you? Not surprised really.

Take your racquet and its proof of purchase back to where you bought it from and see if you can get a replacement.

Yeah. Doesn't really matter. I like the shoes anyways.

I'm going to do that sometime soon. But I didn't string it at his place last and he might notice that so will he say that it's not his problem and send me to the place that I last strung at?

Tare Panda

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by bigredlemon


If tarepanda knew it was used and was appropriately discounted to reflect that then it's a done deal. However, I think tarepanda meant he thought it was merely demoed and hence dirty. Now he discovered the shoe was not only used, but also significantly worn. If the discount he mentioned applied equally to brand new shoes as well, then i think it's fair to ask for some additional discount to reflect its condition.

I got ur point.

However, I still think "a done deal is a done deal". It's not like purchase a stuff from internet, and u can never inspect it before u get it. If u had ur chance to check it, try it, and had ur chance to reject the offer (simply say not buy it), then, why not do it before the final transection. If bargining before making payment, I am totally fine with it. However, "regret afterward" is buyer's own problem, but not the seller's responsibility.

Put this way, I know a guy selling some stuff on ebay. Yeah, at that time, he sold his stuff by a relatively higher price than others. After teh transaction, the buyer kinda very mean to him. Come on, it's open price. If u don't compare all the offers before making payment, whose fault is that? Surely not my friend. If u don't like this offer, no one ever force u to buy it. Why create such a mess after the transaction???

There are always better offer around here and there, is it fair to the sellers? They have to always match their prices with who ever exisiting in the world???

[LazyBuddy]

For the "string job" issue, I think it's more like a "trust" between the stringer and the customers.

When a racket is broken, relatively short after a string job (say, within a week), it coudl be anything. Unproper string job, racket manufacture defect, racket already seriously dmg. in play, etc.

If u think u can be almost sure about it's the stringer's fault, then u might have a conversation with him. However, if u r not sure (seems u have it done by various stringers before), I really don't think any one of them will take this responsibility.

My suggestion is, if u think they are reputable store, then, just try to replace it with ur dealer. If u think they are not, then, best bet is don't do business with them any more.

[bluejeff]

Since you said the racket is only 2months old, I guess it's still under warranty, isn't it?

[chan]

unless its Sp version (sp on the shaft, not the country code) these rackets have no warranty, and are destined for distribution in asia :D

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
I got ur point.

However, I still think "a done deal is a done deal". It's not like purchase a stuff from internet, and u can never inspect it before u get it. If u had ur chance to check it, try it, and had ur chance to reject the offer (simply say not buy it), then, why not do it before the final transection. If bargining before making payment, I am totally fine with it. However, "regret afterward" is buyer's own problem, but not the seller's responsibility.

Put this way, I know a guy selling some stuff on ebay. Yeah, at that time, he sold his stuff by a relatively higher price than others. After teh transaction, the buyer kinda very mean to him. Come on, it's open price. If u don't compare all the offers before making payment, whose fault is that? Surely not my friend. If u don't like this offer, no one ever force u to buy it. Why create such a mess after the transaction???

There are always better offer around here and there, is it fair to the sellers? They have to always match their prices with who ever exisiting in the world??? I don't think it's buyer's remorse in the hypothetical situation I mentioned above. Suppose you buy a car from a new car dealership. You test drive it and everything is fine so you buy it. When summer comes you discover that the air condition is broken, and there is a sticker under the hood that said "AC broken" but the dealer never mentioned it. You got a $1000 discount that the manufacturer offered for all new purchasers. Would you say that's buyer's regret too? It's the same situation as above.

The problem isn't that Lee's price is higher than some other store. The problem is that they sold a used product as new (in the hypothetical example.) If Jennifer actually told him it was used and he agreed to buy it at the new price then that's fair. But she didn't, and there lies the injustice.

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
For the "string job" issue, I think it's more like a "trust" between the stringer and the customers.

When a racket is broken, relatively short after a string job (say, within a week), it coudl be anything. Unproper string job, racket manufacture defect, racket already seriously dmg. in play, etc.

If u think u can be almost sure about it's the stringer's fault, then u might have a conversation with him. However, if u r not sure (seems u have it done by various stringers before), I really don't think any one of them will take this responsibility.

My suggestion is, if u think they are reputable store, then, just try to replace it with ur dealer. If u think they are not, then, best bet is don't do business with them any more.

The thing is, it broke only after a couple HOURS not DAYS after I played with it. And it was RIGHT after I got it strung at Lee's. Jennifer did the string job. This is the second person that strung this racket. The first person was Diamond at Winning Cycle and Sports.

Tare Panda

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by chan
unless its Sp version (sp on the shaft, not the country code) these rackets have no warranty, and are destined for distribution in asia :D

On the shaft it says APP on it. All the other stuff is the balance point and stuff.

Tare Panda

[Cheung]

Originally posted by tarepanda
I'm going to do that sometime soon. But I didn't string it at his place last and he might notice that so will he say that it's not his problem and send me to the place that I last strung at? Possible, but the racquet should still be under warrenty. And you did string it at a place that uses a proper stringing machine.

I am assuming this is a racquet you bought in Canada, so I would still go back to where you bought it from. (providing the racquet doesn't have any other major chips from racquet clashes).

And you better do it quick...the longer you leave it, the less strong your arguments for replacement become.

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by Cheung
Possible, but the racquet should still be under warrenty. And you did string it at a place that uses a proper stringing machine.

I am assuming this is a racquet you bought in Canada, so I would still go back to where you bought it from. (providing the racquet doesn't have any other major chips from racquet clashes).

And you better do it quick...the longer you leave it, the less strong your arguments for replacement become.

The first place I strung it at was Winning. The second was Lee's. Both of them use a proper stringing machine.

I did buy it in Canada and I am going to go back to Winning but the racket does have quite a few chips not from clashes but from missing the sweetspot. I'm going to try to go on Monday or Wednesday.

Tare Panda

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
I don't think it's buyer's remorse in the hypothetical situation I mentioned above. Suppose you buy a car from a new car dealership. You test drive it and everything is fine so you buy it. When summer comes you discover that the air condition is broken, and there is a sticker under the hood that said "AC broken" but the dealer never mentioned it. You got a $1000 discount that the manufacturer offered for all new purchasers. Would you say that's buyer's regret too? It's the same situation as above.



Can't agree with ur example:

1. Exam a car is much more complicated than a pair of shoes. If u buying a used car, u should bring prof. ppl go with u, just test drive for 5 min is not call "exam the car". Test every thing, u ppl can do (radio, window, AC included), not just the gas, brake, etc.

2. If u buy a new car (as u stated), but u can find a sticker inserted, metioned it's used (or broken without useage, but AC should be include in most package, or u paid extra for additonal accs, in either case, it's already paid for working, brand new). U can sue the dealership, if u have enough proof (receipt) to indicate it's been sold as a "new" one. If not a used car, and no sticker so ever, it should be under warranty in most of cases (warranty should cover at least 3 yrs, for most new cars).

3. The box for the shoes is marked as "used" (unless they use font 4 or something). But in ur example, the car is still listed as "new", which are totally different cases.

4. I know it's frustrated to exam everything when u make purchase. However, how long u take to check the box and the shoe? 5 min? 10 min? 15 min? If we can be a little bit more careful, and save up all the "issues" later on, I am sure it's worth that.

[dex]

Originally posted by tarepanda
The first place I strung it at was Winning. The second was Lee's. Both of them use a proper stringing machine.

I did buy it in Canada and I am going to go back to Winning but the racket does have quite a few chips not from clashes but from missing the sweetspot. I'm going to try to go on Monday or Wednesday.

Tare Panda

So Tare Panda, how did it turn out after you went to Winnings?

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
Can't agree with ur example:

1. Exam a car is much more complicated than a pair of shoes. If u buying a used car, u should bring prof. ppl go with u, just test drive for 5 min is not call "exam the car". Test every thing, u ppl can do (radio, window, AC included), not just the gas, brake, etc.

2. If u buy a new car (as u stated), but u can find a sticker inserted, metioned it's used (or broken without useage, but AC should be include in most package, or u paid extra for additonal accs, in either case, it's already paid for working, brand new). U can sue the dealership, if u have enough proof (receipt) to indicate it's been sold as a "new" one. If not a used car, and no sticker so ever, it should be under warranty in most of cases (warranty should cover at least 3 yrs, for most new cars).

3. The box for the shoes is marked as "used" (unless they use font 4 or something). But in ur example, the car is still listed as "new", which are totally different cases.

4. I know it's frustrated to exam everything when u make purchase. However, how long u take to check the box and the shoe? 5 min? 10 min? 15 min? If we can be a little bit more careful, and save up all the "issues" later on, I am sure it's worth that. Sorry, I can't agree with why you can't agree :p

You mentioned two examples: if a stick was included AND you saw it, and if a sticker was not included. My hypothetical exam related to only if there was a sticker AND you did not see it. I had already said in my original post it's a fair deal if tarepanda had seen the sticker beforehand (he did not).

When you buy shoes at a normal retail store, it's presumed to be new. If I went into Footlocker and asked the sales associate if that pair was used, he'd look at me like I was an idiot.

If you go to the restaurant, there's an expectation that the food hasn't fallen to the floor and was picked up and recooked afterwards. It's not up to you to ask when you recieve it.

You said it would be different if the font was very small. What's the reason behind that distinction? Because if it's very small it would be hard to spot. What if the font had been size 14 but almost the same color as the busy background pattern? I think you would agree that the notice was not noticable enough there either. It's not how big the font is but how visible the words are. In this hypothetical case, the word 'used' was clearly not noticable enough because ourfriend tarepanda did not see it.

For the car example, the AC can be broken on a new car. Perhaps a little squirll made a nest in there.:p Yes it would be covered under the warranty, but the dealership isn't going to pay to have it fixed. It's the car maker. So the dealership got off trouble-free. Suppose like this shoe case that the car manufacturer doesn't cover the AC on the warranty. Then according to you, you would have no recourse if you failed to spot the sticker.

[valourarc]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
Sorry, I can't agree with why you can't agree :p

You mentioned two examples: if a stick was included AND you saw it, and if a sticker was not included. My hypothetical exam related to only if there was a sticker AND you did not see it. I had already said in my original post it's a fair deal if tarepanda had seen the sticker beforehand (he did not).

When you buy shoes at a normal retail store, it's presumed to be new. If I went into Footlocker and asked the sales associate if that pair was used, he'd look at me like I was an idiot.

If you go to the restaurant, there's an expectation that the food hasn't fallen to the floor and was picked up and recooked afterwards. It's not up to you to ask when you recieve it.

You said it would be different if the font was very small. What's the reason behind that distinction? Because if it's very small it would be hard to spot. What if the font had been size 14 but almost the same color as the busy background pattern? I think you would agree that the notice was not noticable enough there either. It's not how big the font is but how visible the words are. In this hypothetical case, the word 'used' was clearly not noticable enough because ourfriend tarepanda did not see it.

For the car example, the AC can be broken on a new car. Perhaps a little squirll made a nest in there.:p Yes it would be covered under the warranty, but the dealership isn't going to pay to have it fixed. It's the car maker. So the dealership got off trouble-free. Suppose like this shoe case that the car manufacturer doesn't cover the AC on the warranty. Then according to you, you would have no recourse if you failed to spot the sticker.

Bigredlemon,

I think the standard is whether a 'reasonable' consumer could find the fault, if any, on reasonable inspection. It is not whether the person actually saw the defect or not. A reasonable consumer would probably not inspect the AC unit (since it is more of an internal component) whereas a reasonable consumer would see if there were any knicks/smudges on shoes.

Oh course, the best preventative method is to ask the salesman and voice any concerns before hand (i.e. in your new car exam, simply ask "Are all the components new?". That way, you would be relying on the salesperson and you would have recourse for either misrepresentation or reliance.

[Neil Nicholls]

So they put shoes in boxes that they didn't belong in. In the end she said that wrong box, new shoe kind of thing.

So the shoes showed signs of wear/use, but the shop said they were new shoes.:confused:

[bigredlemon]

Originally posted by valourarc
Bigredlemon,

I think the standard is whether a 'reasonable' consumer could find the fault, if any, on reasonable inspection. It is not whether the person actually saw the defect or not. A reasonable consumer would probably not inspect the AC unit (since it is more of an internal component) whereas a reasonable consumer would see if there were any knicks/smudges on shoes.

Oh course, the best preventative method is to ask the salesman and voice any concerns before hand (i.e. in your new car exam, simply ask "Are all the components new?". That way, you would be relying on the salesperson and you would have recourse for either misrepresentation or reliance. even if a reasonable person would find fault with the store's conduct I dont think he would have an actionable legal wrong. What I pertain to is what I felt would be "right" by societal standards...:)

[valourarc]

Originally posted by bigredlemon
even if a reasonable person would find fault with the store's conduct I dont think he would have an actionable legal wrong. What I pertain to is what I felt would be "right" by societal standards...:)

I wasn't talking about whether a person would 'find fault with the store's conduct'; I was talking about finding the 'fault in the merchandise'. Anyways, just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding on my post. ;)

[tarepanda]

Originally posted by dex
So Tare Panda, how did it turn out after you went to Winnings?

I'm going today to go check it out. I was busy the last couple days. I'll give you guys a reply soon. Mostly tonight.

Tare Panda