Just bought another Mp100 2u G4 racket and have a side by side comparison to a clonex mp100. I bought the imitation a month back ago when my original Mp100 quit on me but never have the chance to compare the two side by side. What disturbed me is that besides the serial no. everything is the same in everyway. I spend 7-10 mins comparing the two, the paint (shade of the red, the design, the quality), the legnth of both rackets coz i let them stand side by side, the grip size, the handle. The isometric head shape. Even the stiffness and weight of the shaft and racket the same! like i said I've spend 7-10 mins comparing the two to justify on what i have just dished out. So far you could tell its a clone by the serial no. (my brother's clonex has none).

Now if its a fake Ti-10 you can spot if a mile away by just looking at the Oval head and weight (it's really light around 75 but really durable it has a 25lbs tension), real ones have the Isometric and it's head heavy.

i'll take a pic of the two so that i can show you guys later.

I hope Yonex build better rackets that cloners can't easily duplicate.
Anyone know where i could report this? i'm planning to send the pics to Yonex manufacturing or better yet to the president of the company.

save your time, clonex is legal. Although exterior appearance look similar, have you try playing the clonex and see how it compare to the real mp100? I have seem and touched these mp100 clones, there are very well done, no exterior difference at all except their company logo instead of YY logo.

I think he means fake, since the only difference was the serial number. I think he meant is was silk-screened rather than engraved.

played both of them they are just the same, well if theres a difference it's too insignificant for me to distinguish...

still waiting for the comparison pics... ;)

Here is it guys the comparison pics, just remember the real is always at the RIGHT side(except for the last pic where there is a serial no.) if not on TOP.

hardly any difference...

here's another... The fonts of the bottom looks brighter coz it is nearer the flash.

The right side is whiter because it's nearer from the flash...

Kinda like twins...

Here's with and without the serial...

I really have to post this as an extra. This beauty is my father's racket. He bought it in the early eighties '82-'83. This racket is the predesessor of the CARBONEX series,
it's shaft is made up of carbon fiber and head of light alluminum alloy and it's very light and strong, lighter than the MP100 and in fact stiffer too than the mp100. YONEX is advertising their MP100 is extra stiff so no power is wasted, well this one is surely a lot stiffer than my mp100. I've been using this racket when I was still studying (elementary - collage) it has it's shares of countless collisions and scrapes at the oval and it has earned my respect. The only thing that i keep replacing of course is the string and the overgrip. I retired it 2 years ago since it has sentimental value. After that i bought my carbonex 15 then later gave it to my girlfriend and moved on to Ti-10 and Mp100. They don't build rackets like they used to, but then again they would be in a financial crisis if they do... :D

I admit you got a good fake version of mp100. It come down to examining the racquet in fine details to tell the difference

Or is it really a fake?

Originally posted by Pete LSD
Or is it really a fake?

Of course you can clearly see that the other one has no serial no.
all ORIGINAL YONEX has serial no. that's the only thing that seperates it from the fake ones...

Originally posted by cooler
I admit you got a good fake version of mp100. It come down to examining the racquet in fine details to tell the difference

Yes, that's why YONEX must do something about it. I mean what if they too have their serial no. engraved?

Take for example the fake Ti10 and the real Ti10
paint: little deviation especially from the rackets head.
isometric head: Fake-NO ; Real-YES
serial no: Fake-serial no. goes with the coat ; Real-Engraved
length: The fake is several cm shorter than the original ones
Weight: Fake-very light and not head heavy

Fake Mp100 and the Real MP100
Paint: you can't tell the difference exactly the same, PERFECT!.
isometric head: Fake-YES ; Real-YES
serial no.: Fake-none; Real-Engraved
length: exactly the same
Weight: can't tell the difference

Originally posted by Pete LSD
Or is it really a fake?

DO I NEED TO SAY MORE??

frictionman,

where did you buy the fake? and how does the price of the fake compare with the real one?

more picture request. can you try zooming in on the Ti-mesh area? the paint quality there usually can differentiate between real/fake, also zoom in on the grommets.

the only indication of fakeness i can tell is from the JAPAN print on the butt cap. even that is quite hard without side-by-side comparison.

FM,
Definitely a fake and not a clone. A clone is a racquet (of different brand) that has same or similiar cosmetics as the Yonex version.

Very good job on the counterfeiter's part. The butt cap would give it away but still, like Kwun say, you need a real one to compare with. The YY logo is bigger (on the fake) and the JAPAN is not as clear.

Maybe the MP100 is easier to fake because it doesn't have the strip of grommets like the other MP series.

Like Kwun, I would like to see a close up of the Ti-mesh.

Oh, the old racquet of your dad is a either a Cab 7 or 8 :D

Originally posted by Winex West Can
The YY logo is bigger (on the fake) and the JAPAN is not as clear.
I belive the blur is from the camera not the racquet. The lense is focused on the left buttcap so the right one is out of focus. If you look at the edge of the handle or the grip on the right racquet, it is blurred too.

Originally posted by kwun
more picture request. can you try zooming in on the Ti-mesh area? the paint quality there usually can differentiate between real/fake, also zoom in on the grommets.

the only indication of fakeness i can tell is from the JAPAN print on the butt cap. even that is quite hard without side-by-side comparison.

The real one is the closer the the camera it's kinda blurry because of the zoom, i tried to get as close as possible but i think it's kinda ok since you guys there have
an MP100 that you can compare. And i didnt stack the two together coz the string of the top racket will partially hide some detail on the lower one.
What is important is the clearer fake on the UPPER PART OF THE PICTURE.

Regarding about the butt cap...
the real one is sitting at the right side, the blurry one coz it nearer to the camera.
actually they have the same shade of green and white and the YY size is the same.

Here's another one... The real one is ontop of the fake (clonex) one...

Arent they becomming good at this? Hope YONEX sees this thread...

I hope this helps guys...

Originally posted by kwun
frictionman,

where did you buy the fake? and how does the price of the fake compare with the real one?

Bought it at a small store in Manila. I bought my original MP100 around $178 string not included. As for the Fake, i got it around $28 and with free bg66 string.

Originally posted by frictionman
Here's another one... The real one is ontop of the fake (clonex) one...

Arent they becomming good at this? Hope YONEX sees this thread...

I hope this helps guys...

Good pics but you need to stop referring to the fake racquet as a clonex. It's not a clone. Clones are manufactured by other manufacturers and marketted under a different brand (e.g. Winex, Ashaway, Fleet, etc). :D

Fakes (counterfeits) are intended to rip off the customers based on the reputation of the original.

Originally posted by Winex West Can
Good pics but you need to stop referring to the fake racquet as a clonex. It's not a clone. Clones are manufactured by other manufacturers and marketted under a different brand (e.g. Winex, Ashaway, Fleet, etc). :D

Fakes (counterfeits) are intended to rip off the customers based on the reputation of the original.

Well I used Clonex coz majority of the people here keep reffering fake as clonex. And i think they are right. I think if they are reffering to let's say Winex they would just say Winex or Ashaway just Ashway not clonex. Clonex means a CLONE OF YONEX. Do you know what the definition if CLONE is???

When i say i'm a clone of Tom Cruise people would say that i look exactly like Tom Cruise.

Now when i say that i have a clone of a MP100 what do you expect my other racket would look like???

Well, since you paid for the clonex/fake at less than 1/6 price of the real deal, it's not a bad deal at all!

It's only when sellers charge near-to-full prices on their counterfeits that it becomes dishonesty and deception.

Did you actually intended to purchase this counterfeit knowing it wasn't genuine?

Originally posted by frictionman
Well I used Clonex coz majority of the people here keep reffering fake as clonex. And i think they are right. I think if they are reffering to let's say Winex they would just say Winex or Ashaway just Ashway not clonex. Clonex means a CLONE OF YONEX. Do you know what the definition if CLONE is???

When i say i'm a clone of Tom Cruise people would say that i look exactly like Tom Cruise.

Now when i say that i have a clone of a MP100 what do you expect my other racket would look like???

No, I don't know the definition. So a fake is a clone and a clone is a fake and when I say that Winex has a clone of Yonex MP100, I meant that Winex has a fake MP100?

I think the majority of the people here uses Clonex to mean the other manufacturers which copies Yonex's design.

See the FAQ that Kwun has put up http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7889 :D

Originally posted by Hugo
Well, since you paid for the clonex/fake at less than 1/6 price of the real deal, it's not a bad deal at all!

It's only when sellers charge near-to-full prices on their counterfeits that it becomes dishonesty and deception.

Did you actually intended to purchase this counterfeit knowing it wasn't genuine?

Yes, coz the prize was just outrageous. I even came across a seller who is offering me around $14 USD but i didnt like the paint job coz the polish had some little air bubbles near the cone.

Originally posted by Winex West Can
No, I don't know the definition. So a fake is a clone and a clone is a fake and when I say that Winex has a clone of Yonex MP100, I meant that Winex has a fake MP100?

I think the majority of the people here uses Clonex to mean the other manufacturers which copies Yonex's design.

See the FAQ that Kwun has put up http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7889 :D

Well i do , that's why i use the term clonex...

When it's a Winex brand just say Winex, or if it's a Wilson just Wilson. Well Kwun has it's own opinon like you and me. You don't see me forcing you that fake is a clone do you? I respect your opinion. Respect mine ok? not everyone thinks like you ok? we both live in a democratic country...

next pics clone and real Ti-10...

if i have time...

Originally posted by Winex West Can

I think the majority of the people here uses Clonex to mean the other manufacturers which copies Yonex's design.


So my fake is a clone coz it "copies Yonex's design". You've seen the pics above IT DID COPY Yonex's design. (based on your statement above...)

Originally posted by frictionman
Well i do , that's why i use the term clonex...

When it's a Winex brand just say Winex, or if it's a Wilson just Wilson. Well Kwun has it's own opinon like you and me. You don't see me forcing you that fake is a clone do you? I respect your opinion. Respect mine ok? not everyone thinks like you ok? we both live in a democratic country...

Whoa! Chill, man...I am just pointing out that the terms clone and clonex are used to mean racquets based on Yonex's design but marketed under another brand.

In your case, the fake has no distinction between it and the real article. The reason why you knew it was fake was because of the price. If you had paid full Yonex price for it, you wouldn't know that it was fake.

Man, you got to relax. A clear definition helps in communication, no?

Dictionary:

Clone: one that appears to be a copy of an original form, i.e. a clone of a personal computer.

fake: one that is not what it purports to be, i.e. a worthless imitation passed off as genuine


WWC's definition is correct. A clone is something that matches the specs of another without purporting to be that thing. Like IBM vs IBM compatible computers in the early 90s. They operate similarly, though you know whether it's an IBM or not. A fake on the other hand, pretends to be something it is not. I.e. fake artwork may look identical to the original masterpiece, it is not, and hence worth very little compared to the original, just as your fake is worth little relative to the genuine racquet.

So, fake =/= clone

Originally posted by Winex West Can
Whoa! Chill, man...I am just pointing out that the terms clone and clonex are used to mean racquets based on Yonex's design but marketed under another brand.

In your case, the fake has no distinction between it and the real article. The reason why you knew it was fake was because of the price. If you had paid full Yonex price for it, you wouldn't know that it was fake.

Man, you got to relax. A clear definition helps in communication, no?

Clone is defined in Reader's Digest Oxford as - A person or thing regarded as IDENTICAL with another. a DUPLICATE. v. IMITATE...

The guy that sold me the racket did admit that it was i fake. And of course there is the serial no. issue. Another giveaway that it's a clone is it's carrying case. But then again you could always buy an original Yonex bag for your racket...

Those fake/clone makers are surely becoming better and better in duplicating original ones, which i think it's unfair to YY.

I'm really curious about the upcoming armortec series which we all know cloners are preparing to imitate or clone it's design in every bit of it's details. Hope that they still don't have their rackets serial engraved.

Talked about getting your head bit off!

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by bigredlemon
Dictionary:

Clone: one that appears to be a copy of an original form, i.e. a clone of a personal computer.


"copy of an original form" so my fake MP100 is a clone coz surely is a COPY from the original (MP100) form...

let me be the mediator for this definition discussion.

we have two types of fake/clone rackets in the market.

one type is the ones who are made to deceieve ppl they are buying a genuine Yonex. ie. the racket that frictionman has. it looks like Yonex, branded as Yonex, model name is Yonex, and in the cases of some ebay seller, marketed as Yonex.

the other type are the imitators. the ones who are made to look like Yonex, but they are branded and modeled differently. eg. are Winex, Finnex, etc. as mentioned in the FAQ (http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7889).

so far, the names we have given to the first category is "fake", and the ones given to the second category is "clone".

while the BF definitions isn't exactly dictionary accurate, i believe they do serve their purpose well. "fake" has a negative tone to it, which accurately describes the first category as they are made to deceive consumers. clone on the other hand, doesn't have as much of a negative tone to it. which accurate describes the second category as they are correctly branded and model, despite the paint job. perhaps we could've called them imitation, but what's a better word to form the term "clonex"? imitationex just doesn't have the same vibe to it.... :)

Originally posted by bigredlemon
Dictionary:

Clone: one that appears to be a copy of an original form, i.e. a clone of a personal computer.


"copy of an original form" so my fake MP100 is a clone coz surely IT IS A COPY from the original (MP100) form...

When you say a scientist cloned a person looking like Tom hanks you would know it would look like Tom hanks not Marlon brando even though they have two eyes, two ears etc. etc...

Now when a person cloned my MP100 what do you think it would look like? an MP100 of course! not an Winex...

And additionally i think other manufacturers deserves more credit to their hard work by not reffering themselves as Clonex (clone of Yonex). Let Ashway be just Ashway or Winnex be just winnex. Your making it sounds that all these manufacturers always stands behind Yonex's shadow. I'm sure in one way or the other they too have their share of uniqueness...

And unless the definition of a clone in most dictionary changes i'm sticking to what ever a good imitation, copy, duplicate a clone. Coz it's written in black & white in the dictionary and i don't wanna be laughed at knowing i don't know the proper definition of a clone is...

(my 15 mins just ran out while editing)...

one more thing that i forgot to emphasize in my previous post is that. yes, from dictionary definition, you can called both types a "clone". however, if you do that, you have lost the ability to differentiate the two categories. it will be confusing as we have found out from discussion in this thread.

if we have our own definition to differentiate the two, ie. fake vs clone. then everything will be more clear.

Originally posted by kwun
one more thing that i forgot to emphasize in my previous post is that. yes, from dictionary definition, you can called both types a "clone". however, if you do that, you have lost the ability to differentiate the two categories. it will be confusing as we have found out from discussion in this thread.

if we have our own definition to differentiate the two, ie. fake vs clone. then everything will be more clear.

I just though other manufacturers deserve more by not calling their hard earned products a clone...

just a suggestion

clonex - immitation, copy, duplicate of the original YONEX a.k.a Fake or Exact Replica (Clone of Yonex)

clone - the ones who are made to look like Yonex, but they are branded and modeled differently. eg. are Winex, Finnex, etc. as mentioned in the FAQ.

The main dictionary for American English is Marriam Webster's (MW), while for British dictionary is the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). The OED is kind of expensive ($50 a month for a subscription to their online dictionary) while the MW is free, so we'll just use that then. The MW is more liberal in its defintitions anyway. And it's the official dictionary of boogle too :). According to MW,
a clone is something that appears to be a copy of the original.
a replica is a copy exact in all details
a fake is something purporting to be something other than what it actually is


If the racquet looks exactly as the original, as in a perfect duplicate, but not sold as the original, as is in frictionman's case, it is a replica.
This makes sense because replicas tend to mimic another, especially visually, while admiting it's not it. I.e. replica motorcycles, replica jerseys, etc.

If the racquet that is not the original is sold as the original, it is a fake.
This makes sense because of the element of misrepresentation. Although a fake doesn't have to be good, it often is. I.e. fake artwork from famous artists.

If the racquet does not look and feel exactly as the original, but attempts to perform similarly to the original, then it is a clone. Consider what is generally described as clones: something that copies the essence of another without misrepresenting that fact. I.e. generic computers, No-name cereals, etc.


There are diffrences between the defintitions of the three, and thus the wording BF adopted is indeed dictionary accurate. This definition above comes from a leading dictionary with a solid reputation, and applies well universally. I'm sure you can find other dictionaries to say something different, just as I can find scientists that say the earth is flat. (Many of whom can be found in the Flat Earth Society: http://www.flat-earth.org/) My point is that if you think the definition of the leading American dictionary is wrong, then do more than just paraphrasing another you claim says differently.

As for clone vs clonex... i think people here use clonex as a shorthand for "a clone of yonex" because they are cloned far more often than any other brand. Clonex itself isn't a word different in meaning from clonex, aside from being a more specific use of that word.

Originally posted by bigredlemon
The main dictionary for American English is Marriam Webster's (MW), while for British dictionary is the Oxford English Dictionary (OED). The OED is kind of expensive ($50 a month for a subscription to their online dictionary) while the MW is free, so we'll just use that then. The MW is more liberal in its defintitions anyway. And it's the official dictionary of boogle too :). According to MW,
a clone is something that appears to be a copy of the original.
a replica is a copy exact in all details
a fake is something purporting to be something other than what it actually is


If the racquet looks and feels exactly as the original, as in a perfect duplicate, but not sold as the original, as is in frictionman's case, it is a replica.

If the racquet looks and feels exactly as the original and sold as the original, it is a fake.

If the racquet does not look and feel exactly as the original, but attempts to perform similarly to the original, then it is a clone.

There are diffrences between the defintitions of the three, and thus the wording BF adopted is indeed dictionary accurate. This definition above comes from a leading dictionary with a solid reputation, and applies well universally. I'm sure you can find other dictionaries to say something different, just as I can find scientists that say the earth is flat. (Many of whom can be found in the Flat Earth Society: http://www.flat-earth.org/) My point is that if you think the definition of the leading American dictionary is wrong, then do more than just paraphrasing another you claim says differently.


"a clone is something that appears to be a copy of the original."
- Fake Yonex's APPEARS to be a copy of the original but we all know it just a copy not real.


a replica is a copy exact in all details
- Not exact, remember the serial no.? fakes don't have one so it isnt an EXACT replica.


a fake is something purporting to be something other than what it actually is

- If it's "purporting to be something other than what it actually is" then how come it's being sold at a really lower price? they are not "purporting to be something other than what it actually is" coz they are selling it much cheaper than the original.


"If the racquet looks and feels exactly as the original and sold as the original, it is a fake"

- It's not SOLD AS AN ORIGINAL just got it around $28 bucks.


"If the racquet does not look and feel exactly as the original, but attempts to perform similarly to the original, then it is a clone."

- anything DOES NOT LOOK EXACTLY AS THE ORIGINAL IS NOT A CLONE/COPY.

or do we need to define COPY too?

Originally posted by frictionman
"a clone is something that appears to be a copy of the original."
- Fake Yonex's APPEARS to be a copy of the original but we all know it just a copy not real.


a replica is a copy exact in all details
- Not exact, remember the serial no.? fakes don't have one so it isnt an EXACT replica.


a fake is something purporting to be something other than what it actually is

- If it's "purporting to be something other than what it actually is" then how come it's being sold at a really lower price? they are not "purporting to be something other than what it actually is" coz they are selling it much cheaper than the original.


"If the racquet looks and feels exactly as the original and sold as the original, it is a fake"

- It's not SOLD AS AN ORIGINAL just got it around $28 bucks.


"If the racquet does not look and feel exactly as the original, but attempts to perform similarly to the original, then it is a clone."

- anything DOES NOT LOOK EXACTLY AS THE ORIGINAL IS NOT A CLONE/COPY.

or do we need to define COPY too?
You must take into consideration the intention of the manufacturer and not just the seller. There was a large painting purported to be one of the lost paintings of a famous painter. It was later discovered that the painting was a fake of the lost one. The acknowledgement of this fact does not turn a fake into a replica, just as the seller telling you it was a fake doesn't turn it from a fake to a replica.

"a clone is something that appears to be a copy of the original."
- Fake Yonex's APPEARS to be a copy of the original but we all know it just a copy not real. Which is why i said APPEARS in bold. It is apparent that a clone is NOT the original. That's what seperates the clone from the fake.

As for the replica: it attempts to copy the original... whether or not it succeeds is something different.

Anyway it seems like you are twisting my words around so i'll just keep this simple: a clone doesn't pretend to be what it copies (no misrepresentation). It tries to be like what it copies, but doesn't try to be it. A fake tries to be what it copies (misrepresentation) such as by infringing copyrights and trademarks.

There is no point of further this argument. I stand by Kwun and the majority of other BFer's sub-definition of difference between clonexs and fakes.

Originally posted by bigredlemon
You must take into consideration the intention of the manufacturer and not just the seller. There was a large painting purported to be one of the lost paintings of a famous painter. It was later discovered that the painting was a fake of the lost one. The acknowledgement of this fact does not turn a fake into a replica, just as the seller telling you it was a fake doesn't turn it from a fake to a replica.

Which is why i said APPEARS in bold. It is apparent that a clone is NOT the original. That's what seperates the clone from the fake.

As for the replica: it attempts to copy the original... whether or not it succeeds is something different.

Anyway it seems like you are twisting my words around so i'll just keep this simple: a clone doesn't pretend to [b]be what it copies (no misrepresentation). It tries to be like what it copies, but doesn't try to be it. A fake tries to be what it copies (misrepresentation) such as by infringing copyrights and trademarks.


I’m not twisting your words, you can’t seem to go around it coz the basic logic and equation is that clones is a COPY of the original. Even Kwun admitted that the definition of clone here in BC isn’t that accurate. And that’s the fact… so my fake is a clone coz it’s a COPY from the original…
And like I said as long as the definition of clone is clearly stated in the dictionary you can’t change my opinion.

Well just wanna say that if my term for clonex is unacceptable to some then let me be, don't force someone your ideas. Each person has has it's own unique opinion. I post pics here to show people that indeed clonex is getting better in duplicating YY, I post it in good faith for everyone. I'm not the kinda person who joins in the band wagon coz many people the same way. To me if it ain't look like the other it ain't a clone. clone looks the same as the other and what could look more "the same" than fakes. right is right and left is left. The world doesnt revolve to badminton alone. I don't wanna be laughed when i make a comment like "You know what? i think that that poodle is a clone of that sheep Dolly". Respect each other's opinion. Now like i said before unless they do change the definition of clone in the dictionary then my definition stands...

Clones copy technology then sell as a competitor to the original.

Fakes copy the original and sell as an original.

How complicated can it be?

I agree with everybody, to some extent.

The $28 racquet is both a clone and a fake/counterfeit
It is a counterfeit racquet like counterfeit money.

The problem here is that the made up word "clonex" as used by the majority of BF people does not stand up to the dictionary definition of clone.

ok. sounds like discussion closed.

BF's definition of fake vs. clone stays. and we will use the term clonex as the nickname for clone rackets.

we will allow frictionman to use his own definition.. :)

can i squeeze in my last 2 cents?
I have not read all the posts before this one so i can be excused.

clonex is coined over here in BF as a clone/replica copy of yonex as 99.999% of clone racquet out there copies only yonex.

Clones, fakes, clonex, etc usually copy the external feature of the original. They can't be called replica as internally, they are different from the original, even though some may say they feel similar to the original. How could one say it plays like the real thing (yonex) when yonex racquets themselves don't play the same (ex. 2u,3u, 4u, SP vs TW vs CD vs CP vs JP version) I think one should evaluate each racquet on its own merit.

Originally posted by eggroll
Clones copy technology then sell as a competitor to the original.

Fakes copy the original and sell as an original.

How complicated can it be?

But what if they don't sell it as an original?

What if those clonex dudes make another step forward? instead of just copying the technology they copy even the paint and the exterior design and sell them at a lower price?

Originally posted by kwun
ok. sounds like discussion closed.

BF's definition of fake vs. clone stays. and we will use the term clonex as the nickname for clone rackets.

we will allow frictionman to use his own definition.. :)

Thanks and double thanks. :)

Originally posted by cooler
can i squeeze in my last 2 cents?
I have not read all the posts before this one so i can be excused.

clonex is coined over here in BF as a clone/replica copy of yonex as 99.999% of clone racquet out there copies only yonex.

Clones, fakes, clonex, etc usually copy the external feature of the original. They can't be called replica as internally, they are different from the original, even though some may say they feel similar to the original. How could one say it plays like the real thing (yonex) when yonex racquets themselves don't play the same (ex. 2u,3u, 4u, SP vs TW vs CD vs CP vs JP version) I think one should evaluate each racquet on its own merit.

Right on, hits that exact spot... :D

Are you sure you are not comparing 2 fake rackets, and that's why there are no difference? Just a thought.:D

Originally posted by AKFT
Are you sure you are not comparing 2 fake rackets, and that's why there are no difference? Just a thought.:D

you've seen the one with the serial... if not its on page 1.

Did you get your clonex from greenhills?

Originally posted by KOKOY
Did you get your clonex from greenhills?

nope, I bought it in DownTown Manila...

can i know where exactly in manila? planning to give it a try....broke my real one yesterday.

Originally posted by coolhand
can i know where exactly in manila? planning to give it a try....broke my real one yesterday.

Raon area Metro Manila can't remember the exact store coz they all look the same. They're selling it around 25-30 bucks.

Frictionman,

Im wondering if you checked whether the weight distribution (the balance point) of the rackets were similar?

If so, and the grommets were identical (we only saw their side view, and lack of grommets are another way of telling fakes), we might be looking at rackets made by a contractor that were manufactured but taken out of the factory and not shipped to Yonex for distribution. That is how it is done in Asia for other name-brand manufacturers. I just dont know if Yonex falls prey to the same tactics.

Originally posted by stantan
Frictionman,

Im wondering if you checked whether the weight distribution (the balance point) of the rackets were similar?

If so, and the grommets were identical (we only saw their side view, and lack of grommets are another way of telling fakes), we might be looking at rackets made by a contractor that were manufactured but taken out of the factory and not shipped to Yonex for distribution. That is how it is done in Asia for other name-brand manufacturers. I just dont know if Yonex falls prey to the same tactics.

there's a truth to that idea. I know a guy (high school friend of mine) who sells original surplus ADDIDAS clothes with half the price. Sometimes companies hire subcontractors if they can't meet the demand. That's where the subcon makes extra shirts and sells them to the open market with half the price or even less.

I've cheked out the racket weight distribution is even the same, that goes for the total weight of the racket and stiffness of the shaft.

This happens quite often in other parts of Asia where subcontractings are done.

but aren't all high end Yonex rackets manufactured in Japan in Yonex's own factories?

I would very much doubt it as Yonex's high end racquets are supposely manufactured in Japan. Their shoes and apparel are outsourced but not the high end racquets.

Besides, for those outsourced contracts, Yonex do keep a very watchful eye over production to prevent the very same issues.

:) Maybe the Yonex Factory in Japan messed up with this particular racquet. Who knows . . . someone forgot to laser coded it? Naaaaa, this couldn't happen.

Looks like a perfect fake!

As long as people are in need of extra cash anything could happen...

Well, if new goldcopies of movies and programs can be stolen then why not Yonex rackets? The serialnumber is perhaps added later in the production as it is different regarding to the destination country. If anyone steals rackets before that? Why not??? Maybe both rackets are real!

Originally posted by Framerate
If anyone steals rackets before that? Why not???

I really wonder how big the possibility will be.

Even in badminton popular nations, I assume no thieves will actually spend tons of energy to steal / carry / sell boxes of rackets. With limited profit (they have to sell with even less than whole sale price), larger risk (need ppl, tools, trucks to carry and transport, even a factory to add the serial #???), there are way too many others products could be better targets.

fake/copied cd's are being sold here in Manila for just around $.50 cents if you know where to look, from mp3's($.75 cents), pc games($.75 cents), vcd's($.50 cents), dvd's ($1.25) to ps2 games ($1.25). Surely a cloned/fake rackets that cost $25 Dollar is no exception. From cd's to clothes to computer to car parts people will take the extra risk just to earn extra bucks.

Originally posted by frictionman
fake/copied cd's are being sold here in Manila for just around $.50 cents if you know where to look, from mp3's($.75 cents), pc games($.75 cents), vcd's($.50 cents), dvd's ($1.25) to ps2 games ($1.25). Surely a cloned/fake rackets that cost $25 Dollar is no exception. From cd's to clothes to computer to car parts people will take the extra risk just to earn extra bucks.

My previous post was regarding to the possibility of "steal geniue rackets for sale", which is totally different than manufacture clone / fake rackets.

Plus, copied CD, games are way easier to be re-produced, transported, stored, and being hide. How many CDs we can hold, just using a normal backpack? Hundreds??? But for rackets, even a huge racket bag can't hold more than 10 (if with cover).

Never to to metion, all the above have much larger market than a particular model of badminton racket.

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
My previous post was regarding to the possibility of "steal geniue rackets for sale", which is totally different than manufacture clone / fake rackets.

Plus, copied CD, games are way easier to be re-produced, transported, stored, and being hide. How many CDs we can hold, just using a normal backpack? Hundreds??? But for rackets, even a huge racket bag can't hold more than 10 (if with cover).

Never to to metion, all the above have much larger market than a particular model of badminton racket.

Just keeping my mind OPEN that these things MAY and do happen. If top secret gov't stuffs gets stolen and sold once in a while what's so special with YONEX company? Everything has a price, including Yonex...

like i said everything is possible when you need extra cash... just imagine what people will go thru if they need $$ DESPERATELY.

If a thief can steal a container with a couple of thousand Yonex rackets, why not. If then everyone think it´s fake rackets because there´s no serial, so what, he can still sell them and get some money. These things can surely happen.

The question is WHEN in the process is the serial printed. As it contains a countrycode, I think that it´s done later in the production.
If so, it may be possible to steal rackets without the serial.

I´ve got no facts what so ever about this, I´m just guessing cause I find it easier to belive in this than extremely well done fakes (in some cases).

Why do an extremely perfect fake and then skip the serial. Noone´s that stupid?!?!?

hmmm...

well, we can considerm fake racquets is the prices are less than or 1/4 of the original price

Friction man, does the fake/clone racket play the same as a real one, power, control,general feel,...etc. That what is more important, will you buy another?

I guess there is a difference being a fake in all but its too insignificant for me to tell. To me you can tell the difference just by the serial no. power, performance just the same... I'm really curious if anyone out there has the same perfect fake as i do.

If i have the money i'd certainly buy the real one, just to clear up my concience and knowing that it's the real thing also helps psychologically.

But if I don't have the $$ I'd buy the fake ones of course coz thats the nearest thing your gonna have next to the real one and it comes with just 1/6 of the price with free bg66 strings.

The cloned rackets are so cheap that i'm just tempted to buy 5 of these (MP100) and string them with different tensions like
20,22,24,26,28 so that i can compare them side by side on spot which tension is the best in terms of power, control etc...

but then again i'm just tempted...

All in all in my opinion no matter how perfect a clone maybe it's just a clone, it's still something else to be an Original...

if i had the opportunity to buy a racket like that ..that performs pretty much like the real version..i'd jump and grab it for sure..at such a price like that (at any kind of currency..just cause you know it's so much cheaper)

for those who have been asking if there is a difference in the performance between the real and the fake yonex, THERE IS. i've been using a fake mp 100 for the past 1 1/2 years, and i just upgraded to a ti-10 last month, and the difference is very BIG.

aside from the tension that a fake yonex can take (highest i've strung mine is 22 lbs., because stringers here in manila don't want to take the risk of stringing higher than that tension), the weight difference is also very apparent.

on a daily basis, i used to delude myself that the performance of the fake is the same as the real (of course, who wouldn't want to be able to say he got a steal of a deal - a fake yonex performing the same as the real at a fraction of the price), aside from the fact that i bought it for around $45 then in a major sporting goods store (i didn't know about fake yonexes then, and fakes were still very much scarce, BUT of good quality, similar to what frictionman has shown). BUT being able to play intermittently with my uncle's real mp-100 showed me there is a difference in the performance, more so now that i have proven it having my own ti-10s. :D

given all of that i have stated above, still i'd go back to quoting the best advice you'll get from this site - PERSONAL PREFERENCE. what may be good for somebody else may not be appropriate for you.

Originally posted by marky mark
for those who have been asking if there is a difference in the performance between the real and the fake yonex, THERE IS. i've been using a fake mp 100 for the past 1 1/2 years, and i just upgraded to a ti-10 last month, and the difference is very BIG.


uhh..i guess there is a difference between some fakes and the real version. but by reading the posts on teh fake racket (pics on first page) compared to a real..the difference is minimal...i realize that there are some fakes that are out there and obviously have a difference in feel, weight, etc.

But by reading what you've tried, you've been using a fake mp100...but you're comparing it with a real ti 10...that's not a real mp100...but it's all good...ur right that there is a difference between those two..
:D

to yonexfanatic, i actually said i had actually been playing, though intermittently, with my uncle's real mp 100 during the 1 1/2 years that i had my fake one, and because of that, i was able to notice already the difference in performance. :)

aesthetically, though, my mp 100 was a VERY good copy, and comparing the two (my uncle's real mp 100 and my fake one) side by side, there was very minimal difference in terms of the appearance.

apologies for the confusion about mentioning the ti-10 in the same breath as having used a real mp-100 from time to time, but it was more to prove (or so i thought :p) the difference in performance after being able to use a real yonex on a daily basis.

in any case, i guess we agree on the same thing, and that there is indeed a difference.

it's all good...my mistake

Coming soon real and cloned/fake armortec700... this guy called me up you know the same guy that sold me the MP100 and told me that he'll be having a shipment around next next week. keep ya posted...

friction man check your pm

Ok as promised and some BFer's request i'll be posting the side by side comparison of a fake/cloned and the original Ti-10.


First the carrying case...

2nd pic..

The oval and Iso heads...

The upper one is the Original you can see clearly the difference of the two finish unlike the fake Mp100 whice is perfect...

shaft almost identical if not for the position of the designs and words... Although both have the same color the real one's black is shiner.

Also the cloned one is shorter than the original one. Here shows the butcap, one can easily see that the fake has a dull green and the YY logo is not that shart compared to the real one...

and of course the serial numbers... :)

Alas, a confirmation that my Ti-10 is GENUINE! Hi-5 to all BF-ers!

*clap* x 10000

i dont mind it being a fake as long as it plays good, anybody know where i can get one in china?

There's a difference between "fake" (which claims as yonex, but actually not) and "clone" (has similar 'looking', but its own unique brand name/model #).

If u want to get a cheaper but good racket in china, there are tons of alternate choices. Such as SOTX, Victor, Kason, available in the market.

The best way to tell if a Ti racket is fake or not is to look at the Ti mesh. Does it look like there is actually titanium inside or is it just painted on?

FrictionMan, where did you get that clonex mp100?

My friend wants one since he doesnt have that much money:)

-Dave

anyone know where to get fake ones in Southern California? =)

I only know ones here in Manila and the selling price is around 20 dollars...
anyone interested in seeing a fake armortek700 my friend has one.

If you are interested, you can actually be an OEM supplier of racquets. You can tailor or custom make your racquets, long, short, nickel alloy, titanium, woven mesh, rigid or flexible shaft, etc, etc, or any specs (incuding your name) you care to specify. There are OEM suppliers in Hong Kong that do just this. They need not look beyond southern China to seek out badminton racquet manufacturers who will entertain even small orders. One such OEM supplier is Inkysport in Hong Kong, who can be contacted at email inskysport@on-net.com or thru Mr Ng of Luxissport at luxissport@yahoo.com.hk.

The best way to tell if a Ti racket is fake or not is to look at the Ti mesh. Does it look like there is actually titanium inside or is it just painted on?

how do you tell that?

how do you tell that?some of the decals look surprisingly realistic, but usually if the mesh is too even, or else you can even see where the mesh overlaps.
The leftmost racquet is a MMOA, with obvious painted mesh - notice the mesh chip. The other two are SAMAZE, and are real mesh, although the rightmost racquet uses a different mesh fabric, than the middle one.

lol........well obviously if it chips off....:)

you can easily feel the mesh by fingers because the painted one has no "lines" at the intersection of two parts. The real mesh will have "lines" there. Like....Yonex MP-100 has "Ti" on the frame, and you can feel the lines there pretty easy :)

but if they have a distinct line, won't it be less durable, since there is already a line of possible weakness....i guess my Winex armanetic has got Ti then....or its a shoddy paint job:)

Want to bump it becaze the fact of this fourm is very aamazing to new pplz to this fourm!~~~~

Hi,
I read this discussion with interest.

My business is to import Badmintonstuff from Asia to Europe.
I can tell you, that you can buy everything in the design you want. You just have to be specific on the stats.
If you want a serial, for Germany it would be GR12345678, you can get it.

I receive 10 different samples a week. Most of them are from my supplier. I cooporate since 1970 with this guy and he offers me the latest invention.
He ships me everything in black without logos and print, but reffers to Yonex MP, Armortec and other series. The rackets are an exect rebuild.
The weight is the same, the headshape, everything.
I have an own brand, so he uses the original colours and my logo. We change the name and sell for 60 Euros and not for 169 Euros.

If you see a clone (dublicate), that is not an 1:1 copy of the racket, it is crap.

I received a shipment from a new supplier yesterday.
There were 20 rackets, all excact copies from Yonex, Wilson, Oliver and Victor. Racketbags, shoes, everything .

I admit, that we do not develop our own rackets, but I would never sell a Yonex racket to a customer, if I know that it is fake.

Henning

The rackets (mp, armortec) are an exect rebuild.
The weight is the same, the headshape, everything.

small question, if above is true, is your supplier from japan? I highly doubt it. If not, then they are made in china or TW, then it can't be exact.

I'm not trying to be pro or con on particular brands, just want to clarify the meaning of 'exactness'

I know you are from germany, but just another clarification,
exact copying isnt an invention but a close facsimile is an invention :p

The rackets (mp, armortec) are an exect rebuild.
The weight is the same, the headshape, everything.

small question, if above is true, is your supplier from japan? I highly doubt it. If not, then they are made in china or TW, then it can't be exact.

I'm not trying to be pro or con on particular brands, just want to clarify the meaning of 'exactness'

I know you are from germany, but just another clarification,
copying isnt an invention :p
My supplier ist from China and Taiwan.

Paint job is 1:1, material is 1:1, weight is 1:1

The rackets are not produced by Yonex. I fly to Taiwan 3-4 times a year and visit the guys. They have there own production lines and produce rackets for a couple of brands.

I know, that copying is not inventing. I did not write, that we "invent", we just reproduce. We do not fake rackets, since we put our own logo and name on it.

Henning

hey i want to see it.i dont mind buying that fake actually.does anyone know any fake shops in jakarta indonesiaI only know ones here in Manila and the selling price is around 20 dollars...
anyone interested in seeing a fake armortek700 my friend has one.

Hi,
If you see a clone (dublicate), that is not an 1:1 copy of the racket, it is crap.


Hmmm, what are you doing then? You copy 1:1 and if that's not cloning then what is it? To me that's cloning and so what you are saying is that your stuff is crap??? :confused: :confused:

If you are referring to fakes, then I agreed with you that fakes are crap although there are fakes which are of better quality than other fakes. The problem with fakes is that they hide their identity so you have no recourse if there are issues with the product and they pretend to give you the real item under false pretenses.

Hay Guys,

Excuse me. Please support GENUINE PRODUCTS ONLY. This include:

1 Buying and using real products.
2 Discussion which leads to support of genuine products.

Please alert that buying Genuine Products will support:
1 "prizes" given to well performer like our current hero "Lin Dan", "Peter Gade", "C Martin"...............
2 Reasearch and developement of new products like.
3 Organizing and sponsering 4, 5, 6, 7 stars competition
4 Some training classes
5 .....
6 .....

If you spend money on non-Genuine products, you are destorying this sports:

1 Do you know where the profits go?
2 You email Hans and ask "Do you have "Clonex 1 star" vedio?"
3 You found out that Lin Dan had to use Emotec 7000 to compete with Peter Gade with MuscularPower99 because no funding and no sponsership in the -1 star competiton.

My point is: It's a free world. You determine to use what you like but don't promote non-Genuine products here, no matter how good those dudes are.

Retail on high-end Muscle Power series rackets approach CAD $300 here in Vancouver ... that's a lot of money to spend for maybe younger players still in school. Clonex'es offer a chance for new players to play badminton without the high "initiation fee" :)

-dave

Retail on high-end Muscle Power series rackets approach CAD $300 here in Vancouver ... that's a lot of money to spend for maybe younger players still in school. Clonex'es offer a chance for new players to play badminton without the high "initiation fee" :)

-davePlease stop rationalization on using "Clonex". If they couldn't afford Yonex, they can buy Gorsen, Wilson, Prince.....

Believe it or not I have a few cheap Gorsen which are much better performing than even Ti5,6,7,8,9,10. Wilson is the market leader in putting nano on rackets.

The point is: if you buy "Wilson" more than Yonex, Yonex might spend more money to sponser to market or "Wilson" have more money to be aggressive to get into the market.

Please answer this: Want to see a "Clonex -1 AllStar"?

Please support Genuine Products.
(I saw this particular thread for quite a while but at first I choose not to read or participate because the "participation in reading/discussion"sounds like promoting, welcoming or endorsing fake products, pardon me)

Retail on high-end Muscle Power series rackets approach CAD $300 here in Vancouver ... that's a lot of money to spend for maybe younger players still in school. Clonex'es offer a chance for new players to play badminton without the high "initiation fee" :)

-dave
It's the good player that makes a racket good
not the other way around
(copy from someone else)

Red,

Clonex are not fakes... if anything else, they borrow technologies from Yonex for their own brands. Just like Yonex borrowed technologies from some of its tennis competitors:rolleyes:. I read somewhere that MP frames were originated from HEAD tennis racquets. I agree with Wood_22_Chuck that clonex are wonderful alternatives for budget conscious students.

Anyway, I am sure Yonex could let some of its more sensible clients get away as it seems that almost everybody else buy its latest products regardless of their own capacity to use them or afford them:D.

It's the good player that makes a racket good
not the other way around
(copy from someone else)Totally agreed. It's better to get a cheaper racquet and invest more in coaching/training than get an expensive racquet and just play with it:p.

Hmmm, what are you doing then? You copy 1:1 and if that's not cloning then what is it? To me that's cloning and so what you are saying is that your stuff is crap??? :confused: :confused:

If you are referring to fakes, then I agreed with you that fakes are crap although there are fakes which are of better quality than other fakes. The problem with fakes is that they hide their identity so you have no recourse if there are issues with the product and they pretend to give you the real item under false pretenses.
If I sell fake yonex rackets with a Yonex logo, design and say that this racket is produced by Yonex, thats product piracy and illegal.

We use the design, the materials and our own brand and logo.
So thats cloning, but not illegal.

Quality:
We sold over 1000 ArmorPLUS rackets in the first 9 month and had 3 broken frames. I think, that our quality is better than other producers.

http://shop.henningwinter.de/images/fly-armorPlus700-box.jpg

I included a picture of a racket, to help over m pour english :)

Clone: yes
Fake: no
agreed?

Henning

Clone: yes
Fake: no
agreed?

agreed


We use the design
theft: yes
ethical: no
agreed?

henning, dont get me wrong, i welcome all legitimate competition, i think it has more pluses than minuses for the sport. I was only clarifying the word 'exact copy'. You see, most of us here are racket junkies and quite keen. Even if the yonex and your clone logos are removed, i ( and some other here) can tell them apart, easy, in 2 seconds. If i can tell them apart (without logos, without touching it), then it's can't be 'exact' duplicate.

henning, dont get me wrong, i welcome all legitimate competition, i think it has more pluses than minuses for the sport. I was only clarifying the word 'exact copy'. You see, most of us here are racket junkies and quite keen. Even if the yonex and your clone logos are removed, i ( and some other here) can tell them apart, easy, in 2 seconds. If i can tell them apart (without logos, without touching it), then it's can't be 'exact' duplicate.
Ok, excact copy is the wrong word.
We keep as close as legal.

Let me tell you something else:
We produce and sell rackets for almost 30 years now.
We never designed and invented, because there are a number of companies in Asia, who do that for us. We receive OEM rackets, we just print our stuff on it.
There are many other companies, who are doing that and I am sure, that most of the smaller companies are selling the same racket with a different print.

We receive MuscelPower, Armortec, WovenTI etc. a couple of weeks sooner (!!), than Yonex, Wilson, Victor etc releases the models on the market. We could release a clone model prior to the original one.

I think, this discussion is very good. There is no offence or strong language. Thats totally different from some german boards....

Henning

just want to clarify on the terminology we use in BC forum regarding clone and fake.

here is how they are defined:

clone/clonex : for rackets who are made to look (and possibly feel) similar to Yonex rackets, but bears a different brand and model name.

fake/counterfeit : for rackets who are made to look exactly like Yonex, bearing the same brand name and model numbers. but they are not genuine Yonex.

fake/counterfeit are definitely illegal with the intent to cheat consumers.

while clone/clonex tries to imitate as closely as legal but ethically potentially questionable.

[QUOTE=kwun]

fake/counterfeit : for rackets who are made to look exactly like Yonex, bearing the same brand name and model numbers. but they are not genuine Yonex.

QUOTE]


i'd like to add on this...

.... with both either similar or lower quality and/or make....

[QUOTE=kwun]

fake/counterfeit : for rackets who are made to look exactly like Yonex, bearing the same brand name and model numbers. but they are not genuine Yonex.

QUOTE]


i'd like to add on this...

.... with both either similar or lower quality and/or make....
Ok, we are "clonex dudes" :)

From the producers view:
Price difference between cheap fake and perfect fake is one USD, maximum.

I posted a couple of serial numbers from 99% fake rackets. I received the rackets as "demos"..... :rolleyes:
And I won´t sell them.

Henning

agreed



theft: yes
ethical: no
agreed?

Beautiful post!! Short and succinct.

But to be fair, is Henning doing anything different to the many MP99 clone manufactureres on the market? I'm sure we've all seen clones from the likes of Winex, Ashaway etc etc

But to be fair, is Henning doing anything different to the many MP99 clone manufactureres on the market?
I suppose not....

Are you sure you are not comparing 2 fake rackets, and that's why there are no difference? Just a thought.:D


I agree, both of those rackets are fakes. I know this because on the "real" racket the serial numbers are painted on, Not Engraved! To be a real yonex racket, the serial numbers have to be ENGRAVED! :D

on the website ... they posted this

http://www.yonex.co.jp/intl/img/jpg/bad/notice.jpg

My question is how come both the rackets ( from the images posted on this thread -- the real and the fake one ) have a rounded corner on the Yonex logo ?

I believe it's a real with some defects. I dont think the people who went through the effort of copying perfectly the racket would forget to put a fake serial. Dont you think?

If I sell fake yonex rackets with a Yonex logo, design and say that this racket is produced by Yonex, thats product piracy and illegal.

We use the design, the materials and our own brand and logo.
So thats cloning, but not illegal.

Quality:
We sold over 1000 ArmorPLUS rackets in the first 9 month and had 3 broken frames. I think, that our quality is better than other producers.

http://shop.henningwinter.de/images/fly-armorPlus700-box.jpg

I included a picture of a racket, to help over m pour english :)

Clone: yes
Fake: no
agreed?

Henning

isnt this just what car parts makers do as long as they can make 10% difference in the part it can be sold advertised for that car, an dthey are not breaking any rules.

the big manufactories buy other peoples kit and break it down and see how they can make theres the same or better.