Hi all,

Well, looking at the world rankings it seems that the Asians finally have a European country to contend with. Denmark are certainly coming through the world circuit now and are looking very impressive. With the new mens doubles champions being from Denmark, are we about to see the Danes take over the sport and become one of the forces to recon with in the badminton scene. Let me back up my view. After looking at the world rankings, the Danes do not have one or two in the top 10, but a number in the top in each event.

Mens Singles

2nd - Kenneth Jonassen
5th - Anders Bosen
9th - Niels Christian Kaldau

Womens Singles

7th - Camilla Martin

Mens Doubles

1st - Jens Eriksen / Martin Lungaard Hansen
2nd - Jonas Rasmussen / Lars Paaske
8th - Mathias Boe / Michael Lamp
9th - Michael Sogaard / Jim Laugesen

Womens Doubles

3rd - Rikke Olsen / Ann-Lou Jorgensen
6th - Pernille Harder / Mette Schjoldager

Mixed Doubles

2nd - Jens Eriksen / Mette Schjoldager
3rd - Jonas Rasmussen / Rikke Olsen
6th - Micahel Lamp / Ann-Lou Jorgensen
8th - Lars Passke / Pernille Harder

Looking at these results, it is very impresive. It shows that the danes really are coming through. It shows they have got it figured out now and their systemis working wonders. Could we see the Danes being an even bigger part of badminton now and perhaps take over from the Asians?
For any country wishing to at least get somewhere close to the Asians, i suggest they take a leaf out of the Danish book.

Matt

ranking.. actually is no meaning...



what i mean is we look at the performance rather than just ranking...

Look At P.Gopichan of India.,... he is ranked 121 recently......... but i doubt he is that lousy right?

the former all england champion.....



and look at malaysian players... Hafiz and Roslin, they are not ranked top 16 but they have the ability to beat those in top 16...

Who would have imagine Hafiz who is ranked above 30 to beat Chen Hong Who is ranked 1 in All England Final?



and For the mixed doubles,

Although Emms-Robertson is ranked 4th, 1 position higher than the Newly crowned World Champion Ra-Kim who is ranked at 5th...

does the rankings have meaning now?


I'm not trying to say Europeans Suck in the sports... ,what i'm trying to say is Rankings Doesn't Indicate their true abilities

I agree with fhchiang!
The ranking appears more like a yardstick for quantity rather than quality.

Further elaborate,
- Bao CL was not even in the top 20 during WC. Unseeded though, he went all the way to claim the bronze medal. If not for Li YB's rule, he would even won the world title.
- Lee TS, ranked out of top 30 presented world no 2 Kenneth J his toughest ever 1st round match (Kenneth admitted as his "toughest" 1st round).

After the Pan-Am games, US Open and Canadian Open, perhaps we could even see some US players like Eric Go and Kevin Han ranked among the elites.:p

Lee TS almost Upset The Seedings.....



he is not even seeded and if not for his mistake..... i think Kenneth will be first round casualities

well..

Bear in Mind..

in this World Championship... The Koreans Top Pair Kim/Ha conseeded because of injury.,..... if not, i think they have 75% of taking the title

sorry matt, don't think so.

i thought we'd talked about how ranking doesn't really gauge a player's abilities, but the number of tournaments he/she enters...(sorta)

Ranking in badminton can be very misleading like fschiang indicated and it showed during WC2003. Players peak and valley from time to time and only the really good ones can maintain their form consistently and that's what make them great. While it's true that European countries are emerging but the impact is still not as balance as what it's based on their "true strength", not ranking system.
My observation from WC2003 is only few players from Europe are really considered as threat to Asian players, among them
-MS: Kenneth Jonassen. I was never the fan of KJ as he seemed unable to deliver
during Thomas Cup time after time. But my opinion about him has changed lately
after Korea Open and WC2003. KJ played magnificent in WC against Xia as he
grows more mature and witty on court. Then there's Peter Gade, though still lag
behind in raking, is always a renognition force from the West. PG is in the transition
phase and has to be as he grows older, Peter should play with his head(thinking)
not purely with his atheletic ability. I won't put Ander Boesen and Neils Christain
Kaldau in the same league as KJ and PG.
-WS: Only Camilla and Mia Audia can challenge the Chinese domination in this event,
however, these 2 players were badly defeated by Zhang Ning in WC203. Camilla
still will be the one that concern the Chinese, not Mia unless Mia can make herself
fitter in near future.
-MD: After viewing the final matches of WC2003, I have to admit Paaske/Rasmussen
are really good players with excellent future. They found ways to neutralise
Sigit/Wijaya attacks, know when to take risks and who to attack against, excellent
games plan. Hard to imagine Peter Gade was the one coached by Morten Frost, not
these two players during WC2003 :-)
-WD: Still the world of China
-Mix: Kim and Ra above the head and shoulder of others.

Tooooooooooo Early to tell... Their just in the infancy stage in the world of Professional badminton...

Originally posted by Han

-MS: Kenneth Jonassen. I was never the fan of KJ as he seemed unable to deliver
during Thomas Cup time after time. But my opinion about him has changed lately
after Korea Open and WC2003. KJ played magnificent in WC against Xia as he
grows more mature and witty on court. Then there's Peter Gade, though still lag
behind in raking, is always a renognition force from the West. PG is in the transition
phase and has to be as he grows older, Peter should play with his head(thinking)
not purely with his atheletic ability. I won't put Ander Boesen and Neils Christain
Kaldau in the same league as KJ and PG.


Agree with Han.
Only Kenneth J and Peter Gade are the well recognized European world beaters. However, if there's another player worth mentioning, it should be the former world champion, Peter Rasmussen.
As I mentioned before WC, Anders Boesen ranking seems to be far over-rated. It's a blessing however to lower ranked good players who are drawn to play him in early rounds, as it provides them a very good opportunity to create a so-called "ranking upset", like the case for Malaysian players in the last few tournaments (Wong CH in WC, Hafiz in AE).:D

TOMike,

Dont be sorry mate, just creating a topical debate. :)

Matt

I agree with most of the analysis here. The ranking system does not truly relay the ability of players, but rather is only an average gauge to how they do among a selected number of tournaments.

That said, we should not take any credit away from the Danes. It is almost astonishing to realize that a nation of a tad more than 5 million population (5 million!!!) can rival and somtimes even beat nations with hundreds and 1 billion population. The Danes must be commended on that feat alone, and it's fair to say they're the only European nation capable of challenging Asia's might currently.

Way to go, Denmark.

There has been a resurgence in Danish badminton this year but I agree the rankings do not reflect the position accurately. Most of the Danish play more events and have often accumulated points on lesser euro events without a big asian presence. KJ is definately deserving of his ranking but I think the others will struggle to justify their position.

Add in the cancellation of the Asian events due to sars and they have an added advantage at present. Hopefully the world rankings will be modified soon to give a better representation of the top players at the big events.

dominance is probably too strong a word to use. i doubt we can say any of the nations are dominating. and if you really want me to name country of dominance, China will be the first country that comes to mind before Denmark.

to give Denmark some credit though, the Danish team is getting stronger and stronger, with their strength in MS, WS, MD and MX. especially in MD where the players are young and energetic.

however, we should also notice that Denmark's strength in MS and WS is only held up by one or two strong players, Gade, Martin, and now KJ to a certain extent. these key players are not young and some are already talking about retirement. i see few credible sucessor in those fields.

dlp does have a good point that the current ranking is skewed due to SARS. i think the tournaments of next year will more accurately reflect the true strength of the nations. the next year is the Olympics qualifying period and all nations will try their best to play in all major tournaments. in previous years, we see only scattered participation from some countries. it will be just before the Olympics then we will see who truely is the strongest.

however we see it though, i think it is good for the sport in general if there are more strong nations in contention, European, Asian, or any other continents.

Matt: just for the sake of conversation eh? hehe :D

Sorry to disappoint you, Matt. But even their Danish coach admitted a few days ago that Denmark still has a long way to go to catch up with China. Denmark simply does not have the likes of Morten Frost to inspire the current team. Danish players peak at a much later age, around 30, and this is a disadvantage. One reason cited was that they too are quite serious about their studies and many turn professional at a late age compared with the Chinese or even professionals from other countries.

Many of the Danish team players are nearing the "retirement" age of 30 and that's one reason why even the great Camilla Martin will have to hang up her rackets soon, probably after next year's Olympics. Of course others may be forced out through injuries.

Indeed, as many have already pointed out, ranking is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's instrumental for tournament seedings of course, but more importantly, it can be of interest for the players themselves (and especially the European ones): a good ranking is vital to attract good sponsors. Consider the meager prize money in the sport, and it's obvious that this means everything.

Regarding the Danes, we'll be waving goodbye to Gade, Camilla, Jonassen, Rasmussen and Boesen in a few years. And in doubles, Michael Søgaard has already quit, Jens Eriksen quits after the Athens olympics, Martin Lundgaard-Hansen probably does too, and so on.

In singles and in WD, there is just nobody ready to step in, for at least five years or so. In MD, things look a little better: Jonas and Lars have many years left on the circuit, and will have ample opportunity to show that their WC title was not a freak incident. There are also several junior pairs waiting in line, ready to step up soon.

But alas: after Athens, I doubt we'll see any Danes in the top 10 in singles, male or female. In fact, I doubt we'll see anything other than Chinese -- they are so far ahead in developing and nurturing their talents.

As somebody already pointed out: if you're making the old "Denmark vs Asia" comparison, keep in mind that you're talking about a nation of 5 million versus a whole continent...

Probably Jonas will be around for a long time,

he"s probably Europe"s answer to Kim Dong Moon; and is going to win

a lotof MD and mixed titles.To keep him co will be two pairs of Chinese MDs,

barely out of their 20's. China will probably put on Lu Rong in mixed soon to fill gap

left by Gao Ling.

Korea may be team to watch with Park Sung Hwan and some doubles players,

Japan is improving a lot especially in ladies singles and doubles and probably

Singapore.Maybe Germans in mens?

In Men's singles we still have Taufik and Sony to keep Bao and Lin Dan co.not so

drab?

lol forget to mention

Hafiz...

he only 20 this year...


Wong CH

26 this year

men's doubles..

Chan Choong Ming... only 23 if not mistaken.,....


kim and ha gonna retire probably in 3-4 years time......

by the way..

in malaysia.. there's a pair of doubles...

below 20.. still haven't appear in international tournaments... but in domestic competition... they gave the seniors a very tough fight...



Majaor badminton Nations

China
Korea
Indonesia
Malaysia
Denmark

the mens are the POWERHOUSE of this five nation...

for women..
China
Korea
Denmark
Japan

Originally posted by Loh
Sorry to disappoint you, Matt.

lol, thats two of ya now! I dont take it to heart or cry myself to sleep over it at night, like i say i just wanted your views. :)

Originally posted by frictionman
Tooooooooooo Early to tell... Their just in the infancy stage in the world of Professional badminton...

Infancy? If I've not mistaken they've been in world badminton longer than China, no?

Originally posted by Mag
Indeed, as many have already pointed out, ranking is to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's instrumental for tournament seedings of course, but more importantly, it can be of interest for the players themselves (and especially the European ones): a good ranking is vital to attract good sponsors. Consider the meager prize money in the sport, and it's obvious that this means everything.



very interesting point Mag, i have never thought of it that way. Asian teams are usually sponsored as a team, Yonex sponsors the whole Chinese team, Gosen sponsors all of BAM. i wonder why the Danes doesn't do something similar to that? certainly as one of the strongest team in the world, they have the strength to negotiate a deal with Yonex or any other brand for an umbrella sponsorship. then all the players can focus more on training.

but then, perhaps the players gets more money from private sponsorship. and perhaps if they have to fight in order to get sponsored/paid, they are more motivated.

Originally posted by wilfredlgf
Infancy? If I've not mistaken they've been in world badminton longer than China, no?

longer than China Hmmmm... most unlikely. Dominant? not also (count the no. of over all Gold hauled)...

Originally posted by frictionman
longer than China Hmmmm... most unlikely. Dominant? not also (count the no. of over all Gold hauled)...

If I'm not mistaken, China only joined world badminton in 1985 (or 1981?) while the Danes had been at it way before that period. The difference here is that perhaps China has more interest in the sport than Denmark back then.

History lost.


China could have played badminton seriously in 60's

when Tang and Hou ran back to China from Ina.

China then lead WBF to rival IBF.

IBF and WBF merged in 1982.

England and Denmark have been playing badminton since 19th century.

Msia, Ina and India only took it up in 50's.

The Koreans adopted it in 1980's.

:) very nice...

And what country comes into mind if you say badminton dominance?

And when i say infancy it's not the time what country first started or how long it has been playing badminton. A country could be playing for a 100 years but still has a
sucky no. of winning Gold medals.

Great player-wise, I'd say China probably had some of the best during the 80s and 90s but Indonesia, with the likes of Rudy Hartono, Indra Gunawan, Tjun Tjun, Christian Hadinata were the best during their own eras as well.

If in terms of duration and great players, I'd have to go for Indonesia. Their tradition of bamdinton and winning things are perhaps the greatest of all. Nobody won 8 All Englands in a row (was it?) nowadays. To win two is already pretty legendary.

As for Denmark, the only great player I know whom I quite respect is Morten Frost Hansen.

Originally posted by wilfredlgf
Great player-wise, I'd say China probably had some of the best during the 80s and 90s but Indonesia, with the likes of Rudy Hartono, Indra Gunawan, Tjun Tjun, Christian Hadinata were the best during their own eras as well.

If in terms of duration and great players, I'd have to go for Indonesia. Their tradition of bamdinton and winning things are perhaps the greatest of all. Nobody won 8 All Englands in a row (was it?) nowadays. To win two is already pretty legendary.

As for Denmark, the only great player I know whom I quite respect is Morten Frost Hansen.

A little off topic. Rudy Hartono was a great player and won 8 All-England titles in a row. The player that beat him I believe was Svend Pri(??). Put that in perspective and seeing that Svend Pri was neither able to beat Tong and Hou back then - even after defeating Hartono. The best in that era I would say... it is still a mistery. I would go for Tong Xian Fu in singles. And he was also an outstanding doubles player - but would no comment if as good as Hadinata. I consider Hadinata one of the greatest doubles player with Park JooBong.

Sorry, could not resist.. :)