after viewing all the threads on the smash and overheads there is still an area which i still find unclear. i know about turning the shoulders. waist etc. and can hit a good smash but there is part of the action i am not clear about. i bring the racquet down behind my head well before i hit the bird, but when i see really good people play they seem to hold the racquet pointing up untill the last moment and take it back and hit all in one movement. is this something i should learn to do. any comments please.

Since Im not a doctor, nor do I have a kinesiology degree, I can only speculate, but here is some analogies that might help. Why does a golfer hold his(her) club very close to the ball, rather than over his shoulder to start with? Why do hockey players sometimes hold their hockey stick up high when hitting a one-timer? In my personal experience, the answer to these questions, and yours, is timing. It doesn't directly generate more or less power, however it makes the connection better since the timing is "better". However, if your timing is already good and you are taking a full backswing first, there is no reason to change (in my opinion). The arm/shoulder muscles are relatively small muscles compared to the back or the legs, and I dont believe muscles function the way elastic bands work. (if they did, then the total swing distance would actually affect the power of the stroke) Thats my understanding, which might be incorrect.

Personally, I'd say you should stick with the stroke you are comfortable with. (providing there are no technical problems with it :) Oh, speaking of timing though, the quick backswing and smash can throw your opponents timing off until they get used to it though.

I remember my coach telling me to keep my racket well back behind me when preparing for a clear and then following through for the shot. However that was when I was starting off to play badminton and now because my skill level is quite higher than then, I have found the timing and a more "orthodoxed" stroke.

My advice to you is that you stick with what you feel comfortable with. If you feel like it's necessary to get a shorter stroke, go for it. Hwoever, I myself have tried other strokes and have screwed up my timing and have had trouble going back to my previous form. If you already have the power in your clear..it may not be necessary to learn or imitate a shorter stroke although a shorter stroke is required in quick situations.

IMHO i have been taught to have the racket in the ready position(just in front of you, raised.) And when you recieve a clear you should follow the line of the shuttle with your racket. Difficult to explain but, If you do this religousley, then It helps with Hand eye coordination, timing, and being in the right position (ie. if you have racket down by side, then recieve clear, the flight may be slightly unexpected, and you may have to rush the last part of the stroke. I find it helps you to subconciousley move to the correct position (infront of you, not at the side)

i bring the racquet down behind my head well before i hit the bird, but when i see really good people play they seem to hold the racquet pointing up untill the last moment and take it back and hit all in one movement.

When you say you bring your racquet head down behind your head well before you hit the bird, is it such that the racquet sort of stops behind you before coming up to hit the bird? If this is the case then it is wrong, the swing should all be in one stroke, from the racquet pointing up->come down behind your head->loop back and hit the shuttle, if there's a stop even momentarily somewhere between those phases then you will lose power. The reason behind this is that by doing it all in one stroke you make sure that the racquet head velocity when it is behind your head is not 0km/h hence less power. Say the racquet head starting from behind your head travels a meter before hitting the bird then you have a meter to accelerate your racquet head speed from 0km/h to whatever the speed is when you hit the bird but if you do it all in one stroke starting with the racquet head pointing up then you have about twice that distance say 2 meters to accelerate your racquet head speed from 0km/h (racquet pointing up) to whatever the speed is when you hit the bird. By the time the racquet is down behind your head it already has some velocity plus the additional velocity it acquires while traveling back up another meter to hit the bird hence more velocity hence more power. If you're already doing this and I just misunderstood your post, then I apologize, just ignore this post.

"An object in motion tends to stay in motion, or an object at rest tends to stay at rest, unless acted upon by at outside force" :)

Physics. I agree with silent light. Even in you're used to the other way of bringing the racket behind your head, stopping, and then striking the shuttle, you are wasting energy. It will be harder to get the racket (and your arm) to apply the same force from a standstill behind your head, then it is to bring the racket backward and forward in the same motion.

It's funny because I used to do the same thing too, and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't hit the shuttle that far back or that hard. And if I did, all my energy was wasted on trying to hit a deep clear. And then I would watch the better US players and see that they used such little effort in their strokes and still produced a powerful shot.

Good luck with it and expect to miss some shuttles now and then or miss-hit a lot. Your timing will be off for awhile but it will be well worth it

thank you all for your views, very helpful. yes silentlight that is exactly what i wanted to know i will give it a go, thanks.

i agree with silentlight, for some reason, it is better to keep the racket head in motion.

but what is interesting is that, even though it is in motion, the racket head is changing direction quite abruptly. almost to the opposite direction. ie. between bringing the racket back and then forward. but somehow, that generates the most force. and i never really figure out why that would be. it is as if the human muscles are springy and need to be "loaded" and then released.

perhaps someone with a biomechanics background can answer that question....

Looking at the title of this thread, I wondered, "what is wrong with Kwun's overhead?":eek:

but what is interesting is that, even though it is in motion, the racket head is changing direction quite abruptly. almost to the opposite direction. ie. between bringing the racket back and then forward. but somehow, that generates the most force. and i never really figure out why that would be. it is as if the human muscles are springy and need to be "loaded" and then released.

Yes, I do think of this as well. And there is such a thing as described by most badminton books I've read, the pulling back or "loading" phase to maximize muscle response. And I know this is true, if you've done weight training or even just push-ups, sit-ups, etc. you'll notice that the exercise becomes easier if you "bounce"--that is if you're doing sit-ups do not lay down, stop and come back up instead, lay down and immediately or abruptly (jerk) bring yourself back up. This is not recommended by weight training books by the way, in fact, it is not good for you so don't do it but I'm trying to illustrate my point. The reason behind this is supposedly that your body has a built in mechanism or reflex to contract certain muscles when a joint is reaching its limit of range of motion i.e. your biceps contract when you overextend your arm, your hamstrings contract when you overextend your legs, it's an automatic protection mechanism, you don't tell your muscles to do it, it just happens (this is apparently also the reason why if you're tired you're more prone to injuries because your body has lost its ability to auto-protect itself). However, this automatic contraction happens for only a short period of time so in the sit-ups example by immediately bringing your upper body back up, you are actually using both the normal muscles you would use plus that auto contracting mechanism which gives you sort of a boost making the exercise easier. If you were to lay down, stop then come back up then the auto-contracting thing would've been wasted or unused rather, I mean it happened but you didn't take advantage of it. I would think that the same applies to the swinging of the racquet in badminton.

Even so, I have tried (at home) swinging my racquet differently, mainly fooling around with the circular loop that the racquet head makes behind your head. I tried to maximize the circularity (that's not a word) i.e. tried to make the loop as circle as possible instead of an ellipse or a sharp parabola to minimize the energy loss due to the change of direction. I'm still working on that though, it's easy to concentrate when you're swinging in front of a mirror but I forget when I'm actually playing.

oh, the other reason why you wouldn't want to stop at the back swing is that if you stop, then you are losing the angular momentum gained from your body rotation. the whole body must be constantly in motion and smooth and fluid.

doesnt that transfer your body weight alllllll the way to your racket toooo?? =]