2 Knots and 4 Knots

[ants]

I just want to know how many of you guys are using 2 knots and 4 knots. Since you have so many rackets can u also mention the model , tension and how many knots.

MP90 , AT700 , Mp100 - 2 knots 28-29lbs

Gosen Wpp Titan 3500 - 4 knots 29lbs cross 28lbs main. Average is still 28 to 29lbs.

[kwun]

i created a poll out of this...

[ants]

thanks kwun. :)

[BobbyGeneric]

man you're using 2 knots method @ 28/29lbs on an mp90? i certainly hope you're using a good stringing machine!

recently i've been stringing my mp99's at 25/27 using 4 knots method

[Pete LSD]

4 knots
middle 8 @ 26 main X middle 8 @ 27 cross, the rest reduce by 2 lbs, semi-proportional stringing method
BG-68 Ti
Victor Fung 2000

[LazyBuddy]

All my own rackets are 4 knots 22*24 or 23*25. Too lazy to list all everyone, just check my profile. :D

[jump_smash]

4 knots, MP99, BG66, 24lbs

[n00b]

does it matter, how many knots i have???????

[mongoose]

SOTX Woven 7 - 27 lbs (2 knots)
MP100SP - 28 lbs (2 knots)

[kwun]

surprising to see many rackets strung with 2 knots.

[ynexfan2003]

I just got given a racquet today to be restrung; it's currently strung with bg66 with 8 knots!

My racquets have always been strung with 4.

[Dill]

8 knots are probably a couple of single or double string repairs.

Does a racket srtung with one string (2 knots) loose tension quicker then a racket strung with 2 strings (4 knots)? Or does one type of stringing process loose more tension than another?

I was always lead to believe that your strings decreased by aprox 2lbs after stringing.

[ynexfan2003]

Originally posted by Dill
8 knots are probably a couple of single or double string repairs.


Actually, I think he tried to string the racquet himself with a pair of pliers - the heads of all his racquets are very misshapen. One of them must have about 15knots. And for some reason they all stink to the heavens of Chicken Fried Rice (don't laugh, I'm not kidding!).

[swijaya0101]

2 knots at 26-27 ...

[BobbyGeneric]

Originally posted by ynexfan2003
Actually, I think he tried to string the racquet himself with a pair of pliers - the heads of all his racquets are very misshapen. One of them must have about 15knots. And for some reason they all stink to the heavens of Chicken Fried Rice (don't laugh, I'm not kidding!).

HAHAHA, I know you're not kidding, and that's what makes it so funny!

[graphite]

My stringer does 2 knots at 24lbs for my Prince TT Bolt.

[cooler]

for those who haven't seen this

http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10460&highlight=stringing

[stantan]

AT 700 4u

4 knots at 25 lbs tension

stringing by the Yonex Shop in Megamall.

Most of my rackets NOT done by the Yonex shop was around 25lbs but 2 knot.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by ynexfan2003
Actually, I think he tried to string the racquet himself with a pair of pliers - the heads of all his racquets are very misshapen. One of them must have about 15knots.

OMG...

To me, that's like on purposely damage the rackets. With the entire frame suffering from 7-8 different sections of different tension, I feel bad for the rackets. I can understand frequent re-string might be expensive for some ppl, but mess up a pricy racket could be even worse for a long run.

By the way, what kinda racket this person using?

[ants]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
OMG...

To me, that's like on purposely damage the rackets. With the entire frame suffering from 7-8 different sections of different tension, I feel bad for the rackets. I can understand frequent re-string might be expensive for some ppl, but mess up a pricy racket could be even worse for a long run.

By the way, what kinda racket this person using?

I agree with you. tHats racket abuse.. unless if he is using a cheap racket.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Dill
8 knots are probably a couple of single or double string repairs.

Does a racket srtung with one string (2 knots) loose tension quicker then a racket strung with 2 strings (4 knots)? Or does one type of stringing process loose more tension than another?

I was always lead to believe that your strings decreased by aprox 2lbs after stringing.

This may be a bit academic for most of the posters here, but since Im a begginer and I seem to have found all the string-heads in this partucular forum, here goes my newbie question: :)

What's the benefit of 4knots over 2 knots? When should one use two knots and when should one use 4knots?

Why are the Crosses strung at higher tension than the mains? Should they always be 2lbs higher or is there any other formula?

Why not have the mains strung higher than the crosses? For some reason, my stringer insists on stringing the mains higher than the crosses- i wonder why?

:confused:

And finally- should Isometric head designs be treated differently (string-wise) to oval head designs?

Thanks to all who reply....

[Bor98]

I decide to bring this thread back up again. As in the previous post by Sandman, He did post a few interesting questions which I shared and would welcome some answer to his queries. His post ( Nov 4th) did not garner any replies, but I hope I would have better luck....

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Sandman

What's the benefit of 4knots over 2 knots? When should one use two knots and when should one use 4knots?

Why are the Crosses strung at higher tension than the mains? Should they always be 2lbs higher or is there any other formula?

Why not have the mains strung higher than the crosses? For some reason, my stringer insists on stringing the mains higher than the crosses- i wonder why?

:confused:

And finally- should Isometric head designs be treated differently (string-wise) to oval head designs?


Do a search, as most of the above questions being debated over and over. To me, there's no "the one" answer, as different stringers using different string machines, different methods and different patterns. Basically, if u trust ur stringer, if u think s/he does good job for u, otherwise, find another one.

The following is some answers base on my OWN experience:

1. There's no significant benefit between 4 knot vs 2 knot. In gernal, most drop-weight users need to use 4 knots as it will be much easier. Many stringers using higher end machine (crank, electrical, etc) tend to use 2 knot, as it will save some string (mayby around 1-2 ft?)

2. For the formula of "cross is 2lb higher than main" generally applies to 2-point support system. As there's only support on main, but no cross, u need a little bit extra force on cross to balance it out. For 4-6 support system, u don't need to do that. However, for special designed machines, it might be other different combos, such as main > cross, etc.

3. Some ppl claim it's better to use 4 knots for ISO, and 2 knots for Oval. Since I only use 2point drop weight machine, I have to settle with 4 knots for all. To me, they both work fine, and don't have too much of a problem.

[Bor98]

I do my own stringing, using a dropweight machine. It's a 2 points mounting system. String 22lbsM/24lbsX on my Ti-10. The prolem I had is sometimes the string tends to slip on the gripper (aluminium alloy). Tried using some pad, but the trick is to get the pad to stay on the gripper. Any suggestion? Machine is a ver old one. no parts available.
Another question, how to you prevent the mains from shifting? My strings hold ok for a couple of weeks but then starts shifting. I always straighten the cross before I tension off...doesn't seem to helps.

[LazyBuddy]

1. String shifting is normal. With my limited experience, almost every racket's string shifts here or there. If u tend to slice the shuttle a lot, or using slippery string (i.e. Ti string), it might be more often.

2. For the grip during tensioning, I am not sure exactly why. Maybe because the part is wore out? Maybe u can try to clean it up first. If just some dust due to yrs of usage, it might help.

[taneepak]

I am neither sure nor convinced of the argument that the higher cross string over main string tension was to get around problems posed by the 2-point support system. Yonex consistently recommends such higher cross over main string tension. Now, if we assume that such recommendations are based on 2-point support system instead of 4-6 support systems, Yonex would have said so, wouldn't they? By being silent, Yonex could be accused of misleading Yonex racquet owners. Why would they do such a thing?
Without really looking more in depth into this, I am tending towards ageeing with Yonex, for the following (maybe halfbaked) reasons.
The badminton racquet has a certain whip or bend, and all shots will make the racquet bend longitudinally, not cross-wise. Likewise, the main strings are also longer than the cross strings. Even with identical main/cross string tension, the longer main strings, because they are longer, will bend more, and this will synchronize with the longitudinal characteristic of the badminton racquet. Now, if you make the main strings tension lower by 10%, say 2 lbs, vs the cross strings, the whip characteristics of the badminton racquet will be more pronounced, because the main strings will bend even more. It is similar to having longer shafts or racquets for increased power play for attacking players.
Now, if you increase the tension of the main strings over the cross strings, there might be a tendency for the cross strings to put some kind of brakes to this whip.
I am not saying I am right. I could be a million miles off course. But I would like everyone to have a fresh look into this.

[Bor98]

Taneepak...Your hypothesis/explanations whether half-baked or not; is much too much for me :p . I am just glad to play badminton. On a different note, and this has been much written & debated... I find with a higher tension (24lbs-26lbs) smashing & net play is much better, more zing! whilst most of my friends think otherwise.:rolleyes:

LB..cheers, mate for your input. I removed the gripper and using a file, refiled the groove and then sand it down a bit. Seems ok....for the time being:D

Am using BG-66 presently on my Ti-10.

[taneepak]

Just received an email from Yonex Japan explaining the apparent contadictory flex stiffness of the MP33 and AT700. Yonex does not measure flex stiffness based on the actual bend or whip of the racquet shaft. They explained that the reason why the MP33 feels stiffer than the AT700 is simply because the AT700's shaft, being 10mm longer, will bend more; but this is not how they rate flex stiffness. They categorically state that the AT700 shaft is stiffer than the MP33 shaft, because it is made from Ultimum Titanium whereas the MP33's is not. So, there you have it : a racquet's flex can be extra stiff because of its material and yet have more whip for power play.
This whip, be it from a longer racquet or a longer shaft, is probably responsible for the popping/exploding sound of a well struck shuttle.
And I submit that the rationale behind the 10% higher tension of the cross strings over the main strings is consistent with this longitudinal orientation of the racquet's whip or bend. If you were to have higher main strings tension over the cross strings tension, the orientation of the string bed will be lateral, instead of longitudinal. This is not very different to turning your racquet frame head 90% to achieve a lateral orientation. The comparison is of course preposterous, but I use it so you can 'see' it instead of trying to visualize it.

[cooler]

taneepak, it's nice of you to get a reply for yonex japan.
However, i do not buy the reply u got from yonex, and i stand by with my test results shown in the measurements thread.

Reasons:

1. shakey deduction:

Yonex does not measure flex stiffness based on the actual bend or whip of the racquet shaft

They categorically state that the AT700 shaft is stiffer than the MP33 shaft, because it is made from Ultimum Titanium whereas the MP33's is not. So, there you have it : a racquet's flex can be extra stiff because of its material and yet have more whip for power play.


If they didn't measure the shaft specifically, how can they say racket A is stiffer than racket B. Indirect inference is weak, both scientically and legally (ie in court situation). It's like saying i have bigger biceps than you, therefore, i'm stronger than you. Closer analogy, it's like saying ti-mesh frame is stronger than non ti mesh frame.

2. cab 21, cab 22, blacken, (and many other models) have no ultimum titanium, are they all more flexible than AT700? I dont need to give an answer to this question.

3. The stiffness reported in the measurment thread are 'Relative Stiffness', length of each racket has been taken into account.

3. AT500, MP99, MP100, MP77 are all long and have Utimium Ti too, my measurements still say AT700 is more flexible than all of them.:p

I will not comment on the cross vs main tension at this time

[taneepak]

Well, if you don't believe what Yonex said you can email Yonex Japan, and ask them why their AT 700 is rated extra stiff and the MP33 not as stiff in flex, when your own measurements show it should be the other way.
I did ask them how they measure their racquet's flex stiffness, but they said sorry they cannot reveal this, as it is an industrial secret.
I think a racquet's flex is a measurement of the racquet frame stiffness. Frame stiffness is dependent on the materials used in the manufacture of the frame. Materials such as aluminum, fiberglass, ceramic, graphite composite, hi-modulous graphite, boron, kevlar, titanium, Ultimum titanium, and gForce titanium are some of the materials used. These are chosen for their stiffness, durability, weight, precision, vibration absorption, and, yes, costs. Material stiffness is, I think, necessary to make racquets that can resist tortional and twist resistance better.
Cooler, perhaps what you are measuring is a racquet's shaft rigidity, or what I call bend or whip. Maybe, we are talking of different things.
I have asked a friend of mine who is an equipment supplier of racquet diagnostics machines (Taiwan make) and he will send me a copy of the machine's flyer. He did mention that the frame (only the head) is measured for stiffness, the shaft is measured for diameter and rigidity.

[taneepak]

Originally posted by cooler


3. AT500, MP99, MP100, MP77 are all long and have Utimium Ti too, my measurements still say AT700 is more flexible than all of them.:p

Yes and no. The AT500 has no UltimumTi in either its shaft or frame; it, however, has gForce Ti in its frame. The MP77 has UltimumTi in its frame only; its frame is all graphite.
Therefore Yonex does not classify the AT500 or the MP77 flex as extra stiff.
Insofar as I know, only the AT700, MP99 and MP100 have flex that is rated by Yonex as extra stiff. All thes three racquets have UltimumTi in their shaft. In addition to this their frame is being stiffened: the AT700 has gForce Ti, the MP100 has super hi-modulus graphite and a type of very hard mesh, and the MP99 has UltimumTi. These three racquets have very stiff materials in their frame plus UltimumTi in their shaft.

[taneepak]

Originally posted by taneepak
Yes and no. The AT500 has no UltimumTi in either its shaft or frame; it, however, has gForce Ti in its frame. The MP77 has UltimumTi in its shaft only; its frame is all graphite.
Therefore Yonex does not classify the AT500 or the MP77 flex as extra stiff.
Insofar as I know, only the AT700, MP99 and MP100 have flex that is rated by Yonex as extra stiff. All thes three racquets have UltimumTi in their shaft. In addition to this their frame is being stiffened: the AT700 has gForce Ti, the MP100 has super hi-modulus graphite and a type of very hard mesh, and the MP99 has UltimumTi. These three racquets have very stiff materials in their frame plus UltimumTi in their shaft.

Sorry for error...it should read shaft instead of frame. The above is the corrected version.

[cooler]

yes,. i overlooked AT500, it doesn't have Ultimum Ti.
However, mp77 and mp88 have Ultimum Ti shaft. MP88 have H.M. Graphite frame and shaft and it is rated medium

Since yonex doesn't disclose stiffness test procedure nor their exact meaning of racket stiffness, there is no purpose to go into more detail about factory rating versus what i have measured.

Cooler, perhaps what you are measuring is a racquet's shaft rigidity, or what I call bend or whip. Maybe, we are talking of different things.

What i've measure is what a player would feel if he/she swing a racket and how much more or less stiff than a cab20MS, total racket wise. I wouldn't do these tests if everybody understood factory rating and are consistent.

Explain this:

isometric 20 is regular length with aluminum frame and steel shaft, rated stiff.
isometric 20 jr, have same Al frame but shorter (by 5.5") steel shaft, rated medium.
If stiffness was based on the frame, explain that then :p
Based on your (and yonex) logic that AT700 feel flexier because of longer shaft, wouldn't isometric 20 be more 'flexier' than isometric 20 jr? explain that too:p

[bluejeff]

Originally posted by cooler
yes,. i overlooked AT500, it doesn't have Ultimum Ti.
However, mp77 and mp88 have Ultimum Ti shaft. MP88 have H.M. Graphite frame and shaft and it is rated medium

Since yonex doesn't disclose stiffness test procedure nor their exact meaning of racket stiffness, there is no purpose to go into more detail about factory rating versus what i have measured.

Cooler, perhaps what you are measuring is a racquet's shaft rigidity, or what I call bend or whip. Maybe, we are talking of different things.

What i've measure is what a player would feel if he/she swing a racket and how much more or less stiff than a cab20MS, total racket wise. I wouldn't do these tests if everybody understood factory rating and are consistent.

Explain this:

isometric 20 is regular length with aluminum frame and steel shaft, rated stiff.
isometric 20 jr, have same Al frame but shorter (by 5.5") steel shaft, rated medium.
If stiffness was based on the frame, explain that then :p
Based on your (and yonex) logic that AT700 feel flexier because of longer shaft, wouldn't isometric 20 be more 'flexier' than isometric 20 jr? explain that too:p

Wow, cooler, I didn't know you like to use Kid's racket, iso 20 jr, to play :p
I agree with you, AT700 is very flex to me.
The stiffness to me is like (so far):
Ti10 and Cab rackets>MP 100>AT700

If the stiffness is rated by the frame, man, all Cab rackets should have something like "rock" or "brick" high ratings.

[taneepak]

I think flex stiffness of a badminton racquet is a measure of the stiffness of the materials used in manufacturing the frame, the head and shaft, which are the parts that must handle the tortional and twisting forces, but at the molecular level.
Remember, UltimumTi and gForce Ti are harder than titanium. The special super hi-modulus graphite and mesh in the frame of MP100 are harder than titanium, which in turn is much harder than graphite composite used in lower price racquets.
I don't have the racquets Cooler mentions for any meaningful comparison. I may not be in a position to even answer that. Better still, why not ask Yonex Japan? I find them very helpful. Their response can be anything from a week to many weeks, despite the many questions I have been sending them. I guess they have to be careful in what they put down in writing.

[cooler]

taneepak, it is obvious u are trying your darnest to come up with reasons as you go in attempts to fit yonex's reply or other things u have been told. You have disregard all the real life examples presented. Real life examples such as

1. experience feedback from users saying AT700 is not stiff nor extra stiff.
2. mp88 has H.M. Graphite shaft and frame plus Ultimum shaft is rated Medium while MP33 only has H.M. Graphite frame and shaft is rated stiff. Shouldn't they have the same stiffness? Your logic is a bust.

Cab22 only has HM graphite, it is extra stiff and rated to 25 lbs tension. MP100, MP99 is loaded with HM and Ultra M graphite, plus Ultimum Ti but only rated to 22 lbs.
So your statement
*I think flex stiffness of a badminton racquet is a measure of the stiffness of the materials used in manufacturing the frame, the head and shaft, which are the parts that must handle the tortional and twisting forces, but at the molecular level.*

is another bust. Try scratching a piece of broken glass on your mp100 or mp99 and see which scratches which. I havent tried it but i think the glass will scratch those rackets and not vice versa. So your statement

*Remember, UltimumTi and gForce Ti are harder than titanium. The special super hi-modulus graphite and mesh in the frame of MP100 are harder than titanium, which in turn is much harder than graphite composite used in lower price racquets

is another bust or else yonex will be making racket with glass. We are only familar with everyday glass too. I'm sure there are glass that is harder than your regular window glass that we are familiar with.

No, i have not tried the iso 20/20jr, don't have to, the specs are listed in yonex catalog black and white. No, i dont need to call up yonex, i know enough from fundamentals and good observation to draw my own conclusion. The measurment test i did doesnt measure the content of each ingredient use to make the racket, only the racket behavior and characteristic, the things that users care about.

[Neil Nicholls]

Cooler,
with all those racquets of yours, there are some more measurements that need to be taken.

Shaft diameter, and if possible cross-sectional shape.

I don't have calipers or micrometer to hand but comparing, by eye and ruler, my Monsoon 3000 Ti, Yonex MP100, and Carlton AS-TI and AS1, there are some small differences.

Carltons - a smidge over 7mm, but slightly oval rather than circular cross-section
MP100 - a smidge over 7mm
Monsoon - 7mm

Carltons are stiffest, and Monsoon most flexible.

Length and composition of shaft are only part of the story as to how flexible they are.
I now remember an old steel raquet that a friend had. The shaft near the handle end was like a flat strip rather than a cylinder, so it had more flex at that point than anywhere else. Shape matters.

[cooler]

sure shape matters but not useful to keep track of.
A 7mm shaft can be made to be extra flexible, flexible, medium flex, medium, medium stiff, stiff or extra stiff.

A box, oval, circular frame can be made to take 22 lbs too.

I try not to collect data for collecting sake.

[cooler]

it is getting OT here.
past posts should be in the measurement thread.

[taneepak]

Cooler, I don't think I can answer you with authority on your questions regarding MP88, MP99, MP100, MP33 and Cab 22. Only Yonex can. Shouldn't you be asking them these questions and telling them what you think of their flex ratings? Sometimes, it is good to give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt by checking back with them on so-called apparent 'faulty claims'. A dialogue between manufacturer and user is a win-win for all, and will not result in two sets of standards.
Insofar as I am concerned, I accept Yonex's written explanation on the extra stiff flex rating of their AT700. Others might disagree. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as we agree each has a right to disagree.

[cooler]

What is the point asking when you said

Sometimes, it is good to give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt by checking back with them on so-called apparent 'faulty claims'. A dialogue between manufacturer and user is a win-win for all, and will not result in two sets of standards.

I did ask them how they measure their racquet's flex stiffness, but they said sorry they cannot reveal this, as it is an industrial secret.

If yonex can't answer that (which they have all the rights to do so), what is the point if i ask even tougher questions than your.

Standards? LOL, this whole run around postings is because of no industry standard. What yonex have is their own inhouse specs. What does the word 'stiff' mean in quantitative term? Two different rackets rated stiff will have different stiffness between them. These word terminologies are quite vague and have limited value. You can't argue with that one. The racket characteristic in the measurement thread is an attempt to give the user some usable comparison.

Insofar as I am concerned, I accept Yonex's written explanation on the extra stiff flex rating of their AT700

Of course you can accept yonex written explanation and recommendation. Since you use MP99, you should also follow factory recommendation of stringing it to 22 lbs only, and use only BG65/65P/68Ti as prescribed. Are you?

[taneepak]

Originally posted by cooler

Of course you can accept yonex written explanation and recommendation. Since you use MP99, you should also follow factory recommendation of stringing it to 22 lbs only, and use only BG65/65P/68Ti as prescribed. Are you?

As a matter of fact, I string my AT700 20 lbs main/22 lbs cross and my MP99 19 lbs main and 21 lbs cross. I use BG68Ti on my AT700 and one of my two MP99, with the other MP99 using BG85. I have also checked with Yonex on recommended strings for the MP99 and AT700, and the mystery about the 10% higher cross string tension over the main string when stringing on my 4-6 support stringing machine(I didn't ask if it applies to 2-point stringing machine).
Yonex says my racquets' recommended strings are 65Ti for control players, and 68Ti for hard hitters, and that my choice of 68Ti is appropriate. They also say the reason for their recommended 'standard' range of string tensions for each racquet and the 10% cross/main string tension is to ensure the frame is kept in shape.

[cooler]

Fine enough although over 90% of players out there strings their rackets at higher tension than your. Shame on them:rolleyes:

I don't want to nick pick but i can't help to notice that you've said

*Yonex says my racquets' recommended strings are 65Ti for control players, and 68Ti for hard hitters, and that my choice of 68Ti is appropriate. *

but yet from the 'recommended tension' thread you had posted the following

*1. BG65 : RP=4, S=6, SA=5, C=6, D=8
2. BG65 Power : RP=7, S=7, SA=6, C=6, D=8
3. BG66 : RP=8, S=7, SA=6.5, C=7, D=5
4. BG85 : RP=8, S=8, SA=7, C=7, D=6
5. BG65Ti : RP=7, S=7, SA=7, C=6, D=7
6. BG68Ti : RP=9, S=8, SA=6.5, C=7, D=6
7. BG75Ti : RP=8, S=7, SA=5, C=6, D=8
8. BG88Ti : RP=7, S=7, SA=6, C=8, D=6
9. BG33 Tournament(200m) : RP=9, S=8, SA=6.5, C=7, D=6
10. Cyber Natural : RP=8, S=6, SA=8.5, C=10, D=6*

so if bg65ti (C=6) is for control players, why yonex gave control at the bottom of the control scale relative to other strings in that table?

[taneepak]

Originally posted by cooler
Fine enough although over 90% of players out there strings their rackets at higher tension than your. Shame on them:rolleyes:

I don't want to nick pick but i can't help to notice that you've said

*Yonex says my racquets' recommended strings are 65Ti for control players, and 68Ti for hard hitters, and that my choice of 68Ti is appropriate. *

but yet from the 'recommended tension' thread you had posted the following

*1. BG65 : RP=4, S=6, SA=5, C=6, D=8
2. BG65 Power : RP=7, S=7, SA=6, C=6, D=8
3. BG66 : RP=8, S=7, SA=6.5, C=7, D=5
4. BG85 : RP=8, S=8, SA=7, C=7, D=6
5. BG65Ti : RP=7, S=7, SA=7, C=6, D=7
6. BG68Ti : RP=9, S=8, SA=6.5, C=7, D=6
7. BG75Ti : RP=8, S=7, SA=5, C=6, D=8
8. BG88Ti : RP=7, S=7, SA=6, C=8, D=6
9. BG33 Tournament(200m) : RP=9, S=8, SA=6.5, C=7, D=6
10. Cyber Natural : RP=8, S=6, SA=8.5, C=10, D=6*

so if bg65ti (C=6) is for control players, why yonex gave control at the bottom of the control scale relative to other strings in that table?

Well, I am not implying that the 90% of players you mentioned, who use higher tension, are in anyway wrong. I can play with any tension from 26 lbs to 19 lbs, although I have a preference for the lower tension now.
I don't know how to answer your last question with any conviction. The right people to ask is Yonex. However, I would guess the 65Ti is recommended over the 68Ti on the MP99 and AT700 for control players, is that the 68Ti's repulsion power completely overwhelms its control whereas the 65Ti's repulsion power and control are more balanced.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by taneepak

I don't know how to answer your last question with any conviction. The right people to ask is Yonex. However, I would guess the 65Ti is recommended over the 68Ti on the MP99 and AT700 for control players, is that the 68Ti's repulsion power completely overwhelms its control whereas the 65Ti's repulsion power and control are more balanced.

1. I don't think the right ppl to ask is Yonex. I believe, the right ppl to ask is the player himself / herself. It's down to the player to pick his/her best combo to utlize their performance, but not whatever the manufacture print on the catalog.

2. I can't agree with ur RP vs C conclusion either. If that's the case, why Yonex won't suggest BG65, BG88Ti, CBN100, which all have C over RP??? Or, at least BG66, which have better RP and C vs BG65Ti? To me, I think yonex come out with their so call "recommendation" is just base on survey result from testers (i.e. a fairly small group of elites, sponsors, etc), and might also add into marketing factors.

[taneepak]

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
1. I don't think the right ppl to ask is Yonex. I believe, the right ppl to ask is the player himself / herself. It's down to the player to pick his/her best combo to utlize their performance, but not whatever the manufacture print on the catalog.

2. I can't agree with ur RP vs C conclusion either. If that's the case, why Yonex won't suggest BG65, BG88Ti, CBN100, which all have C over RP??? Or, at least BG66, which have better RP and C vs BG65Ti? To me, I think yonex come out with their so call "recommendation" is just base on survey result from testers (i.e. a fairly small group of elites, sponsors, etc), and might also add into marketing factors.

1. My answer to Cooler on this part was in response to his question on why Yonex seems to contradict their own string ratings, that inspite of BG65Ti having lower control than BG68Ti, why are they recommending Bg65Ti for control players on the MP99 and AT700. I cannot answer this for Yonex, simply because I am not Yonex, although I did try to guess why they did what they did, which could be wrong.
I do agree with you that each player has his or her own preference for different strings/racquet combinations.

2. When contacting Yonex, I had to provide them with the country I am residing in and telephone no., as well as the racquets and strings I am using. As you may know, BG88Ti, CBN100, BG65Power, and BG75Ti are not officially sold by Yonex in Hong Kong, so Yonex's reply was probably in the context of their Hong Kong market.
However, as a matter of curiousity, I will ask Yonex Japan why BG88Ti, BG65, BG66 and CBN100 are not preferred over BG65Ti for control payers using MP99 and AT700, inspite of the fact that all these strings are rated by Yonex as having better control.
You must bear in mind titanium racquets may play better than non-titanium racquets when both are strung with titanium strings, as implied by Yonex.

I suggest that if you have any question on Yonex racquets, strings and others, you could contact Yonex Japan. Go to www.yonex.co.jp, hit the 'contact us' column, then select badminton to go to the email page. Maybe, if they receive enough useful input from our forum members, Yonex might be persuaded to incorporate some ideas from this forum. Also, by contacting Yonex you can hear straight from the 'horse's mouth.

[jug8man]

the problem is yonex marketing and promotion has done such a great job for its brand name/image that any faulty/defective/inferior/etcetra equipment bearing the yonex logo is most likely to be regarded as a fake/clone/whatever by the general public than any other possible conclusion.

yonex isnt always right and all that they do isnt always in the pure direction of science, tech and R&D. most often profits, sales, and marketing play important roles in the organizations actions as well.

:D :D :D :D

[jug8man]

i string from 17 to 30lbs. 2 knot cause its so much easier and faster. crank system. use to do 4 knot, nothing wrong just find it slower. there are alot more important factors than 2 knot or 4 knot pattern in quality restringing.all the little details :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:D:D:D

[taneepak]

i string from 17 to 30lbs. 2 knot cause its so much easier and faster. crank system. use to do 4 knot, nothing wrong just find it slower. there are alot more important factors than 2 knot or 4 knot pattern in quality restringing.all the little details :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:D:D:D

Perhaps you can educate mere mortals like us on "...a lot more important factors than 2 knot or 4 knot pattern in quality....all the little details", covering good stringing practices and the logic and rationale. Who knows, you may have some sound ideas that can teach Yonex a thing or two. :) :rolleyes:

[taneepak]

i string from 17 to 30lbs. 2 knot cause its so much easier and faster. crank system. use to do 4 knot, nothing wrong just find it slower. there are alot more important factors than 2 knot or 4 knot pattern in quality restringing.all the little details :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:D:D:D

Jug8man, I am sure, with your not inconsiderable stringing experience (2,000 racquets), you are aware that 1-piece 2-knot stringing places more stress on a badminton racquet than 2-piece 4-knot stringing. Maybe you have found a way that eliminates this 2-knot stringing stress on badminton racquets? :D

[jug8man]

Jug8man, I am sure, with your not inconsiderable stringing experience (2,000 racquets), you are aware that 1-piece 2-knot stringing places more stress on a badminton racquet than 2-piece 4-knot stringing. Maybe you have found a way that eliminates this 2-knot stringing stress on badminton racquets? :D


just want to add that i have very-very low 'dissaster' rates stringing up to 30lbs 2 knots, 2 point crank system. goes to show all this rule should most likely effect racquets perhaps over the 30lbs mark. but quality of the racquet frame comes into question as well.

may i point out that at 30lbs the racquet is more likely to be injured from 'pull through' (where the string penetrates the surface) rather than warping/cracking so based on my experience 2 knot vs 4 knot difference not a valid issue to bother a stringer/player.

i did not say "2 knot quality in pattern" but i said quality restringing.... means quality service.

Quality service defined here as : lots of tlc, all the small details in the process, the some 'what not to do's, speed in service (important), without compromising tension quality and frame durability/shape/etc, and most important: consistency in product. im sure some production line manager would agree with me here.

pls dont take my post as trying to be superior to all. its just after all this time behind the counter i needed a little bit of release. stringers are human too you know.

and yes yonex has nothing to learn from me but from all the feed back the general public gives. im just a channel for a small amount of these ppl. bcoz they come back and complain to me and not write letters to yonex
:D:D:D:D

[jug8man]

im not trying to put down yonex but at the end of the day each organization have multiple leves and departments. they dont always share the same objectives and are not always on the same page.

if yonex sole purpose is to develop the sport, why are the latest racquet showing a soar in prices. because somebody has to pay for R&D cost and their overhead. production cost of an armortec is pretty much the same as most of its clones.

i close this post by saying yonex have done great things for the sport, but they are still a profit based organization, and they would do great by listening to feed back more especially highly objective/quality quantitative observations data such as those shared by cooler.

[cooler]

im not trying to put down yonex but at the end of the day each organization have multiple leves and departments. they dont always share the same objectives and are not always on the same page.

if yonex sole purpose is to develop the sport, why are the latest racquet showing a soar in prices. because somebody has to pay for R&D cost and their overhead. production cost of an armortec is pretty much the same as most of its clones.

i close this post by saying yonex have done great things for the sport, but they are still a profit based organization, and they would do great by listening to feed back more especially highly objective/quality quantitative observations data such as those shared by cooler.

Thank you Jug8man for your kind words, the most appreciative feedback I ever received, especially coming from a fellow experienced stringer like yourself. What u have said above is quite correct, the quality lies within the difference between a self thinking stringer and a go-by-the-manual or go-with-pass-me-down-instructions stringer. Yes, it's the little things here and there, attention to detail that most clients don't recognize while experienced stringers do. I have gave example before as to how stringing is like baking or cooking, the quality difference is still obvious even if different bakers or chefs start out with the same ingredients. The multi-thousand dollars oven used in spitting out cakes for the supermarket are most impressive just like a $10,000 babolat stringing machine that can help stringers string faster with less error. However, some small bakeries still exist because some people know and still appreciate the superior quality from an experienced baker using a small and very simple antiqued oven.

Of course quality means different things to different players. To me, tension consistency is a given, frame shape retention is a given. Just like u, very very low disaster rate is what i mostly use to measure quality for my own reference, even tho the clients are not aware of this. When i see a racket that i have done came out as a winner in a clash, i feel good because the method used for that racket, for that string, for that tension, had worked, although clients just thot of it as luck which i dun deny them because it's just one incident for him/her, he/she doesnt know about all other clashes of rackets that i have done which also came out as winners in clashes. Another quality i measure for myself is string longevity.

PS: i hope i didnt offended other stringers here. Stringing experience comes with time and i'm sure all stringers can meet users expectation. Just some are more serious about its technicality;)

[jug8man]

Thank you Jug8man for your kind words, the most appreciative feedback I ever received, especially coming from a fellow experienced stringer like yourself. What u have said above is quite correct, the quality lies within the difference between a self thinking stringer and a go-by-the-manual or go-with-pass-me-down-instructions stringer. Yes, it's the little things here and there, attention to detail that most clients don't recognize while experienced stringers do. I have gave example before as to how stringing is like baking or cooking, the quality difference is still obvious even if different bakers or chefs start out with the same ingredients. The multi-thousand dollars oven used in spitting out cakes for the supermarket are most impressive just like a $10,000 babolat stringing machine that can help stringers string faster with less error. However, some small bakeries still exist because some people know and still appreciate the superior quality from an experienced baker using a small and very simple antiqued oven.

Of course quality means different things to different players. To me, tension consistency is a given, frame shape retention is a given. Just like u, very very low disaster rate is what i mostly use to measure quality for my own reference, even tho the clients are not aware of this. When i see a racket that i have done came out as a winner in a clash, i feel good because the method used for that racket, for that string, for that tension, had worked, although clients just thot of it as luck which i dun deny them because it's just one incident for him/her, he/she doesnt know about all other clashes of rackets that i have done which also came out as winners in clashes. Another quality i measure for myself is string longevity.

PS: i hope i didnt offended other stringers here. Stringing experience comes with time and i'm sure all stringers can meet users expectation. Just some are more serious about its technicality;)

wow ive been gone a week and look what happened.
the forum even seem to have discovered a new source of renewable energy. wow.
http://www.badmintonforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17063&page=7

lol dude.
but regarding the comparisons to bakers, i'd actually prefer to imagine myself as a fugu chef :D
life and death dude. LOL
this seems to motivate me a little more every day when im starring down another pile of racquets to be strung :D:D:D

[simonf90]

how to define the knot number??? :confused:

[cooler]

how to define the knot number??? :confused:

look at the stringbed, and count the number of tied knots

[simonf90]

Thanks Cooler :)
Mine has 4 knots

[Nget Khar]

Surprisingly, I have found out that official yonex shop in Bangkok, Thailand string my new AT800s and MP99 with one piece 2 knots. According to discussions in this forum and official stringing instuction for AT800, I am desire to have a 2 pieces 4 knots for my new AT800s. So, I made a complaint and the lady
manager/owner unwillingly restrung for me. But only for ATs not to MP.

The point is: Why is this happening? Should Yonex be training their staffs consistently throughout the world? or This 2 vs.4 knots is not the big issue?

Nget Khar

[LazyBuddy]

Surprisingly, I have found out that official yonex shop in Bangkok, Thailand string my new AT800s and MP99 with one piece 2 knots. According to discussions in this forum and official stringing instuction for AT800, I am desire to have a 2 pieces 4 knots for my new AT800s. So, I made a complaint and the lady
manager/owner unwillingly restrung for me. But only for ATs not to MP.

The point is: Why is this happening? Should Yonex be training their staffs consistently throughout the world? or This 2 vs.4 knots is not the big issue?

Nget Khar

There are only 2 reasons I can think why they prefer 2 knots method:

1. save time
2. save string

[jug8man]

Surprisingly, I have found out that official yonex shop in Bangkok, Thailand string my new AT800s and MP99 with one piece 2 knots. According to discussions in this forum and official stringing instuction for AT800, I am desire to have a 2 pieces 4 knots for my new AT800s. So, I made a complaint and the lady
manager/owner unwillingly restrung for me. But only for ATs not to MP.

The point is: Why is this happening? Should Yonex be training their staffs consistently throughout the world? or This 2 vs.4 knots is not the big issue?

Nget Khar


dont worry to much about the method. place more importance on wether the stringer handling your racquets really knows what he's doing. a racquet strung well is a racquet strung well no matter what method used.

IMHO this 2 vs.4 knots is not a big issue.

[jug8man]

i seem to have noticed that quite a number have misgivings with 2 knot pattern and from throat to head stringing method. i must say im quite surprised as i have not encountered much or almost any problems with these technique. could it be that all my equipment was acquired from the same man that jack bought his beans??? and im quite sure alot ppl dont approve of the end to end stringing for the mains and prefer starting from the center. hmmm.

[taneepak]

Surprisingly, I have found out that official yonex shop in Bangkok, Thailand string my new AT800s and MP99 with one piece 2 knots. According to discussions in this forum and official stringing instuction for AT800, I am desire to have a 2 pieces 4 knots for my new AT800s. So, I made a complaint and the lady
manager/owner unwillingly restrung for me. But only for ATs not to MP.

The point is: Why is this happening? Should Yonex be training their staffs consistently throughout the world? or This 2 vs.4 knots is not the big issue?

Nget Khar

The AT800s have a different pattern from the others. Do a search and you will find the AT800 pattern. If you do not follow the Yonex AT800 stringing pattern, you could risk your racquet's warranty, although you can ask the so-called official Yonex shop to make good.
In Hong Kong, the experience of so-called official Yonex shops (they are just authorised Yonex shops) on broken racquet warranty is poor and a long process, mainly because of dubious claims and wrong stringing practices. :D

[jug8man]

just like to add that stringing from end to end for the mains can be done for both 2 knots and 4 knots pattern.

[stevesim89]

In order for me to not void the Yonex warranty, should i string my mp99 with a 2knot method or a 4knot method?


Same question as above but with AT800 de?

[cooler]

In order for me to not void the Yonex warranty, should i string my mp99 with a 2knot method or a 4knot method?


Same question as above but with AT800 de?

if u r not an authorized or approved yonex dealer or stringer, # of knots doesnt matter. Since ur asking this question, it is likely ur have not been taught or familar with yonex stringing method. Having the correct knots don't make a racquet qualified for yonex warranty.

[ants]

In order for me to not void the Yonex warranty, should i string my mp99 with a 2knot method or a 4knot method?


Same question as above but with AT800 de?

it doesn't matter if you string with 2 knots or 4 knots.. just make sure you string your racket with the recomended tension.

[overhead_rhythm]

I'm sorry to ask this question, what is the meaning of 2 knots, 4 knots, cross string, main string? what will happen if the recommended 4 knots rackets were strung with 2 knots?

[holyspacemonkey]

Ti-10, MP-100, MP-99, At-700 - 4 knots, 26lb

[taneepak]

I'm sorry to ask this question, what is the meaning of 2 knots, 4 knots, cross string, main string? what will happen if the recommended 4 knots rackets were strung with 2 knots?

If you string your racquet with just one piece of string for the mains (the verticals) as well as for the crosses (those strings that run across the frame), you will have to tie two knots, one at the start of one end of the string and the second one at the other end of the string. Some call this 1-piece stringing, others call it 2-knots stringing.
If you cut your new pack of strings into two strings, you can then use one for the mains and the other for the crosses. Now, if 1-piece stringing has two ends and hence two knots, it follows that 2-piece stringing will have double the knots, hence 4 knots.
Nothing will happen if you choose to use 1-piece 2-knots on racquets even if the manufacturers recommend 2-piece 4-knots. However, Yonex recommends 2-piece 4-knots stringing and their 2 stringing patterns for Yonex racquets, one pattern for the AT800 series and another for all the others. You don't have to follow the Yonex patterns. In fact most of the stores and stringers in Hong Kong have never heard of the Yonex stringing pattern. They used a variety of patterns and stringing practices, some of them make me want to :crying: .However, Yonex in Hong Kong has recently handed out to their dealers large colour sheets of Yonex stringing patterns. Whether they follow is another matter.
In fact, the only shop in HK that I have seen changing over to the Yonex pattern is Insksports; and I suspect Mr Ng of Luxis too, as he is very close to the boss of Insksports. :D

[overhead_rhythm]

Thanks Taneepak, so AT800 recommended by yonex using 2 knots pattern?

[cooler]

However, Yonex in Hong Kong has recently handed out to their dealers large colour sheets of Yonex stringing patterns. Whether they follow is another matter.
:D

why recently? because of AT800, not because stringers dunno how to do conventional 2 and 4 points.

[taneepak]

why recently? because of AT800, not because stringers dunno how to do conventional 2 and 4 points.

In Hong Kong, its because Inskysports started asking Hong Kong Yonex when I challenged Inskysports their stringing practices as contrary to Yonex's. In China, Yonex printed their stringing pattern in their little Yonex badminton guide sometime back. You may be right, because each country's Yonex agent communicate with their dealers differently.

[Pete LSD]

So how many dealers/retailers in HK are adhering to the Yonex Stringing Pattern besides Inksysports & Luxis? Personally I don't find much difference, playbility and integrity of the racquet, between each method.

[taneepak]

So how many dealers/retailers in HK are adhering to the Yonex Stringing Pattern besides Inksysports & Luxis? Personally I don't find much difference, playbility and integrity of the racquet, between each method.

Go to Rackets sports and see how they string. If you were the stringer, having strung for umpteen years using your own pattern and your own mains/cross tension differential, what would your customers think if you were to change over to the Yonex pattern and mains/cross tension differential? You may be right about playability and integrity of the racquets, because it is hard to discern minute changes. The racquet, after all, is a pretty tough piece of stick, if you know how to look after it and how to avoid clashes. :D

[cooler]

In Hong Kong, its because Inskysports started asking Hong Kong Yonex when I challenged Inskysports their stringing practices as contrary to Yonex's. In China, Yonex printed their stringing pattern in their little Yonex badminton guide sometime back. You may be right, because each country's Yonex agent communicate with their dealers differently.

LOL, shouldn't the HK shop owners ban u from going to their back room since u r causing a scene? :D

[taneepak]

LOL, shouldn't the HK shop owners ban u from going to their back room since u r causing a scene? :D

Space comes at a high premium in HK, and most shops see customers, sell, and string in one place. They wouldn't want to ban a potential customer, would they? :D

[taneepak]

Thanks Taneepak, so AT800 recommended by yonex using 2 knots pattern?

Yonex stringing patterns for AT800 and other Yonex racquets use 2-piece 4-knots. You can do a search here for the AT800 pattern.

[Pete LSD]

:D Yeah, that is understandable. Just don't let the girl friend get a hold of the racquets when in the heat of an argument. I am sure the racquets will last a lot longer. :) Joking . . . Besides avoiding clashes with other solid objects, one should avoid mishit between the shuttle and the frame.


Go to Rackets sports and see how they string. If you were the stringer, having strung for umpteen years using your own pattern and your own mains/cross tension differential, what would your customers think if you were to change over to the Yonex pattern and mains/cross tension differential? You may be right about playability and integrity of the racquets, because it is hard to discern minute changes. The racquet, after all, is a pretty tough piece of stick, if you know how to look after it and how to avoid clashes. :D

[goldmedal]

mine is at 3 knots!:confused: :confused:

[LazyBuddy]

mine is at 3 knots!:confused: :confused:

It's very possible that the stringer was trying to use 2 pieces (4 knots) method, but 2 of the knots (1 from main, 1 from cross) were made to be within the same gromment, instead of 2 separated one. :)

[taneepak]

It's very possible that the stringer was trying to use 2 pieces (4 knots) method, but 2 of the knots (1 from main, 1 from cross) were made to be within the same gromment, instead of 2 separated one. :)

This is unlikely as it would mean 3 strings sharing one grommet-the main, cross and the original anchor string. A plausible explanation is that one of the knots has disappeared into the grommet hole, due to wrong knotting or incorrect tensioning of the knot, and/or using a grommet hole that is larger than usual.

[LazyBuddy]

This is unlikely as it would mean 3 strings sharing one grommet-the main, cross and the original anchor string. A plausible explanation is that one of the knots has disappeared into the grommet hole, due to wrong knotting or incorrect tensioning of the knot, and/or using a grommet hole that is larger than usual.

Your assumption(s) are also quite possible. I did see the 3 knots cases several times, and they belong to my assumption. Actually, I tried it once myself, as I was using the 23 cross pattern instead of 22 cross on my SOTX 8080+. Of course, 3 strings share one gromment is a hard task, but definitely doable. :)

[goldmedal]

It's very possible that the stringer was trying to use 2 pieces (4 knots) method, but 2 of the knots (1 from main, 1 from cross) were made to be within the same gromment, instead of 2 separated one. :)well its quite a cheap raquet- a yonex iso 23 vf, so mabye that explains it

[Kai91]

2 knots at 22lbs...

[Benasp]

2 knot 22 lbs i don't know how to string so it take what the strigner give me

[NB1700]

Do the positions of the knots matter? I have two racquets strung by the same shop in different period. Both are 4 knots but the positions of two knots on each racquet are different. :confused:

[taneepak]

Do the positions of the knots matter? I have two racquets strung by the same shop in different period. Both are 4 knots but the positions of two knots on each racquet are different. :confused:

For Yonex non-AT800 racquets, the mains tie-off knots are both on bottom grommet 8, one left and the other right, and the cross starting knot on grommet 6 at the top and the tie-off is at bottom grommet 7. However, Yonex is experimenting with cross tie-off at bottom grommet 6. :D

[NB1700]

For Yonex non-AT800 racquets, the mains tie-off knots are both on bottom grommet 8, one left and the other right, and the cross starting knot on grommet 6 at the top and the tie-off is at bottom grommet 7. However, Yonex is experimenting with cross tie-off at bottom grommet 6. :D
According to what you said, do the knots position on my weird sound weird?:confused:

[Neil Nicholls]

For Yonex non-AT800 racquets, the mains tie-off knots are both on bottom grommet 8, one left and the other right, and the cross starting knot on grommet 6 at the top and the tie-off is at bottom grommet 7. However, Yonex is experimenting with cross tie-off at bottom grommet 6. :D

I thought the current instructions were already for the tie-off at the bottom of the crosses to be at 6.

That's what it says on the stringing instructions (non AT800) on www.yonex.co.uk

[taneepak]

I thought the current instructions were already for the tie-off at the bottom of the crosses to be at 6.

That's what it says on the stringing instructions (non AT800) on www.yonex.co.uk

There is some confusion on this. The Japanese catalog says the cross end tie-off is at grommet 7 whilst the catalog for SP areas says it is at grommet 6. To complicate matters more, Yonex Japan has responded with two different answers, depending on the questions asked of them. For example, when requesting for their stringing pattern, Yonex Japan says cross end tie-off is at grommet 7 for non-AT800 racquets. FYI, Yonex China uses grommet 7. But when I queried them on why their new catalog for SP areas is indicating grommet 6 instead of their earlier recommendation of using grommet 7, they couldn't respond. Subsequent follow-up with Yonex Japan was met with apologies and a response saying they would get their R&D people to answer my rather technical question. As expected their R&D people emailed me explaining that using grommet 6 for the end cross tie-off was adopted because of less tension loss. Their explanation was that, as the last cross string comes out from grommet 9 at the bottom, inserting this into grommet 6 will see two opposing forces, one the string coming out of grommet 9 has a tendency to snap back and the main string at grommet 6 has a "pull" upwards. I did not accept their explanation, telling them the "pull" tendency of the main string at grommet 6 is downwards, not upwards as they claimed, and will make the tension loss even worse. As you know, the main string at grommet 6 is pulled by the gripper at the head end when tensioning. Therefore, after tensioning the main string at grommet 6 would have the tendency to snap back, i.e. downwards from the head to the throat end. Since then their R&D people have not bothered to come back to me. I wonder why? Meantime, I finish my cross tie-off at grommet 7, as I believe it is here that the "two opposing forces" cancel each other out to minimize tension loss. :D

[taneepak]

According to what you said, do the knots position on my weird sound weird?:confused:

No it is not weird, just different. Anyway, I see you are using the two bottom grommet 7 to tie-off your main strings and the top grommet 6 as the starting knot for the cross. But why the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left?

[NB1700]

No it is not weird, just different. Anyway, I see you are using the two bottom grommet 7 to tie-off your main strings and the top grommet 6 as the starting knot for the cross. But why the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left?
I don't know cos I am not a stringer:o
The stringing work was done by a badminton shop.
So "the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left" is unusual, unacceptable or questionable or whatever.........:confused: I really know very little about stringing

[taneepak]

I don't know cos I am not a stringer:o
The stringing work was done by a badminton shop.
So "the tie-off knot at grommet 11 from the bottom left" is unusual, unacceptable or questionable or whatever.........:confused: I really know very little about stringing

If you examine the grommets, you will notice that most modern racquets have larger grommets at certain locations and smaller grommets at other locations. Larger grommets are specifically for 2 strings to pass through, one main string and one cross string.
Looking at the top of the frame, called the head, you will notice that grommets 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, on both sides can take in 2 strings. Looking at the throat end of the frame, you will notice that grommets 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 (but not grommet 11) can take in 2 strings, one main, one cross. All the other grommets are smaller and are intended to allow only one string to pass through.
Using the above grommet pattern, you can deduce why the mains tie-off is at the bottom grommet 8 on both sides, the cross starting knot is at grommet 6 on one side of the head, and the cross end tie-off is at one of the bottom grommet 7. You will notice that newer racquets do not have large grommet at the bottom grommet 6.
How your racquet's cross string finishes with a tie-off at the bottom grommet 11 is strange, as the bottom grommets 11, unlike the top grommets 11, are designed for only one string to pass through. It is fundamentally better to have tie-off knots at the thicker part of the frame, i.e. near the throat end. The only exception is the starting cross knot at the top grommet 6, which is conceptually not desirable but cannot be avoided, although its weakness here is minimized by stringing the first cross string at the next nearest grommet, that is grommet 7 at the top.
I hope you are still with me. Go through the above with your racquet and you will eventually understand. :D

[taneepak]

Re grommet sizes, Yonex is still drilling their grommet holes mainly using only one size. The AT800 has a mixture of large and small grommets. Most other manufacturers have a pattern of large and small grommets similar to what I described earlier.

[NB1700]

taneepak, thank you for a detailed explanation. I somehow get what you said.:)

I examined my racquet in question, which is a Cab20MS, and noticed that grommet 11 is just about the same size as grommets 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12.

However, my another racquet (a Dunlop) is like what you metioned (i.e. grommet 11 at the throat end of the frame is smaller in size than its counterpart grommets 7, 8, 9, 10 and 12). This racquet has bottom grommets 7 and 8 tied off on one side.

[taneepak]

How very strange that most other racquets other than Yonex racquets now have a grommet system that fits almost exactly Yonex's stringing pattern for non-AT800 racquets! But Yonex's grommet system doesn't exactly synchronize with their own stringing pattern! Maybe Yonex's R&D people responsible for Yonex stringing pattern did not get in touch with their racquet grommet drillers at their factory. :D

[lightsmash]

AT 700 4u

4 knots at 25 lbs tension

stringing by the Yonex Shop in Megamall.

Most of my rackets NOT done by the Yonex shop was around 25lbs but 2 knot.
why is mine 3 knots?:confused:

[taneepak]

why is mine 3 knots?:confused:

For a start, you can try to trace which string and from which location the string originates from which eventually ended up as a tie-off knot in all these 3 knots. If we can trace these 3 knots, it would be easier to trace either the disappearing 4th knot or the redundant 3rd knot. There is no such thing as a functional 3 knot stringing job. :D

[LazyBuddy]

why is mine 3 knots?:confused:

Possibly 2 of the knots were sharing the same gromment. When I 1st strung my SOTX 8080+, I mis-calculate the crosses, therefore, I found out I ran out of the large gromment to tie the last knot. Therefore, hassel through, and put 2 knots together (with an ugly ball shape :p ). Pretty lucky that the gromment can hold 2 knots with 3 pieces of string. :D

[cards_pro]

I have a few questions for 4 knots stringing.

1) Should I free stringing the main first and then cut the string. Or I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first then free string the main and cross?
2) If I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first, how long should be for the main and cross? (are they the same length for all kind of racques?)
3) Is it true that all grommets are the same size?
4) How /where to get a replacement gromment?
5) How often should we restring our racques ? Or may be I should ask how many of hours could a string last?
thank you!
:)

[LazyBuddy]

I have a few questions for 4 knots stringing.

1) Should I free stringing the main first and then cut the string. Or I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first then free string the main and cross?
2) If I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first, how long should be for the main and cross? (are they the same length for all kind of racques?)
3) Is it true that all grommets are the same size?
4) How /where to get a replacement gromment?
5) How often should we restring our racques ? Or may be I should ask how many of hours could a string last?
thank you!
:)

1. Wether u can pre-string racket, depend on the machine. Usually, lower end drop weight machine could NOT pre-string.

2. Usually, it's easier to cut the string into 2 pieces 1st. Most brand, the main should be 17 ft, and cross should be 16ft.

3. Gromments have different sizes, depend on the location.

4. www.badmintonalley.com or www.hiquasports.com

5. Depend on how often u use it, and how u use it (how hard the strokes, how often u do slice, etc)

[taneepak]

I have a few questions for 4 knots stringing.

1) Should I free stringing the main first and then cut the string. Or I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first then free string the main and cross?
2) If I need to cut the string into 2 pieces first, how long should be for the main and cross? (are they the same length for all kind of racques?)
3) Is it true that all grommets are the same size?
4) How /where to get a replacement gromment?
5) How often should we restring our racques ? Or may be I should ask how many of hours could a string last?
thank you!
:)

Answers:
1. You cut the string into two pieces first.
2. There are many ways of determining the length for cutting. Some use the racquet length, others use their arms, or you can simply cut the string into two pieces where one piece is 18' 8" for the main and the other piece for the cross. Different racquets require different length, the oval ones less than the Iso, but if you cut one piece to 18' 8", it will fit almost all racquets.
3. No.
4. You can buy grommets but you need a grommet tool to use it. Also some of the newer racquets come with soft bell-shaped grommet for 2 strings to pass through; such grommets are to remove and replace, and they require heat to induce them to form the bell shape..
5. This is difficult to say. For consistent performance you should restring once every 1-2 months.

[Disconbobulated]

I'm yet to be convinced about the need for 4 knot stringing.
The only advantage you get is that you can string your crosses from Top to throat. IMHO I always feel that the throat is generally the strongest part of the head& can take the first crosses without deforming too much.
Actually there is a secondary advantage and that is you have less string to pull through when stringing the mains as you are dealing with a shorter piece of string.
I will be stringing "Around the world" until someone can convince me otherwise.......

Good debate though...

[jug8man]

why is mine 3 knots?:confused:


i can relate to this. once someone brought a racquet to change the grip. i noticed that i could only find 3 knots on the racquet. since the guy was in a hurry i had no chance to dissect the racquet and find the hidden 4th knot. its still bugging me to this day cause my curiosity is not satisfied. im sure its a 4 knot job but i really want to know where it's hidden.... for sure. i really wish he wanted to restring the racquet but he only wanted the grip changed.... :(

oh well.

[Malik]

Yonex Armortec 800 OF, bg80 @ 36lbs, 2 knots

[Big Daddy]

I'm yet to be convinced about the need for 4 knot stringing.
The only advantage you get is that you can string your crosses from Top to throat. IMHO I always feel that the throat is generally the strongest part of the head& can take the first crosses without deforming too much.
Actually there is a secondary advantage and that is you have less string to pull through when stringing the mains as you are dealing with a shorter piece of string.
I will be stringing "Around the world" until someone can convince me otherwise.......

Good debate though...

With 2 knot strings I find that the last mains on the side used for the tie off is always slacker than on the opposite side, but whether this affects play or not may be purely psychological. On Yonex rackets I currently favour 2-piece stringing, for this reason, but I string my mains from the bottom up as I find the racket has not only distorts less into an egg shape but plays better.

Non - yonex rackets I have been stringing one piece with 23 crosses, as this is how they are supplied pre-strung in the shops; although I am considering 2-piece stringing in the future as the wider grommets on these rackets would allow the bottom cross to be tied off on bottom grommet 9 quite easily, even though it has to share this hole with 2 other strings.

I haven't tried RTW stringing as I can't visualise how it can be performed tidily without running a fairly large section of string on the outside of the frame.

[cooler]

Yonex Armortec 800 OF, bg80 @ 36lbs, 2 knots
*faints* u got an arm of steel i may add :)

[hongyi_2000]

haha...i once gone crazy also...MP-100 32Lbs 2knobts...now back to my sweet 24-25~Lbs 2knobt:)

[jug8man]

With 2 knot strings I find that the last mains on the side used for the tie off is always slacker than on the opposite side, but whether this affects play or not may be purely psychological. On Yonex rackets I currently favour 2-piece stringing, for this reason, but I string my mains from the bottom up as I find the racket has not only distorts less into an egg shape but plays better.



hehe. i dont have this problem :)

i think the problem will be solved once you practice more with the method and start to realize the small details relevent to each method/pattern of stringing.
the tie-off and knott quality is also an important factor here.


cheers

jug

[Neil Nicholls]

I haven't tried RTW stringing as I can't visualise how it can be performed tidily without running a fairly large section of string on the outside of the frame.

By RTW do you mean 1-piece with crosses from top to bottom?

[jug8man]

By RTW do you mean 1-piece with crosses from top to bottom?


yup. RTW is the method to string using 1 piece but crosses top to bottom.

if it was strung bottom up it would simply be called 1 piece stringing.

the is the 'alternative' method used to those who believe stringing crosses top to bottom is safer than bottom up without having to use 2 pieces of string.... i wonder who sold them that idea? :confused:

[AZNJORDAN69]

strung my MP99 with BG 88ti @ 25 punds i have been using 4 nots for a while

[Z1985]

Look carefully and u may find that most SGrean here Had their rackets strung @ 2 knots... hmm.. personally i feel that a 2 knots stringing is more flexible and have more repulsion power... for a 4 knots i tink the tension between main and cross is nt linked.. therefore, its stiffer and unable to generate the repulsion power as well as a 2 knots.. i don't know about the real logic.. but that's all IMO. maybe its the difference between the stringers..:confused: currently i have more den 10 rackets strung @ 2knots.. while only 2 strung @ 4knots(non-locally strung).
i do stringing job myself and i strung @ 2 knots too.. :o

[ants]

Just a question for those player/stringer. Which one do you think provides more power?

[Shuttlebugs]

Just a question for those player/stringer. Which one do you think provides more power?

Two knots. Definitely.

[Neil Nicholls]

Just a question for those player/stringer. Which one do you think provides more power?
no difference.
also definitely.

[ants]

Personally i think 2 knots provides more power compare to 4 knots. But it also depends on the way you string your racket. I can't explain in details, but i do believe the energy transfer from the 2 knots string bed is more than 4 knots.

[Noob848]

mines a at500 23X21 lbs 4 knot

[Pete LSD]

Are you comparing both methods at the same tension main and cross wise?


Personally i think 2 knots provides more power compare to 4 knots. But it also depends on the way you string your racket. I can't explain in details, but i do believe the energy transfer from the 2 knots string bed is more than 4 knots.

[SmashBGW]

Is it okay to string my ns8000 at 22x24 with 4 knots?????

[Mark A]

Is it okay to string my ns8000 at 22x24 with 4 knots?????

It's more than OK: it's the Yonex-recommended method!:D

[SmashBGW]

ok . .thanks Mark A . . .