who will win the Thomas Cup 2004?

[kwun]

the reigning Cup holder Indonesia has been having some internal shuffling.

Mainaky and Hendrawan, the 1st and 3rd single for the 2002 edition have both retired.

Candra/Sigit splitted up but two new pairs formed. Sigit/Trikus, Candra/Halim.

Taufik is still having problems with the PBSI. Sony is just starting to prove his abilities.

as a result, we hardly see any Indonesian players in the later stages of tournaments anymore, even the MD event in Indonesia Open itself wasn't won by an Indonesia pairing.

apparently disarrayed, will Indonesia be able to retain their title in 2004?

other strong powers are emerging.

Denmark now have the reigning world MD champion plus another few very promising MD pairings, Gade has re-emerged, not as strong as before but time will heal.

China is reviving its MD department with young, fast and energetic players. LiYB will vow to reclaim the Thomas Cup which he last held in the last decade/millenium.

Korea still have the strongest doubles, and singles players like Lee, Park and Song who will perform wonders when national glory is at stake.

Malaysia who came 2nd again is still strong. this will be a very interesting TC indeed.

[silvia]

I guess its INdonesia...they are very strong when it comes to group event...i donoe why.....and plus its gg to be played in Jakarta...where the crowds are fanatics to cheer for their own home teams, its can be quite intimidating for their opponents....
but i personally hope CHina will win it anyway.............hehhehe......

[seven]

I think Korea has very good chances, but we shouldn't forget Indonesia will be playing in front of their home crowd!!

[whizkelv]

No doubt at all, it's gonna be Indonesia's, not because they are the best, but hosting it virtually earned them the title!!
Quite sick of IBF decision!!!:mad:

[kwun]

2004 Thomas Cup is unique in which no countries seem to be standing out over another. all 5 countries listed i think have an almost equal chance of winning the Cup.

it is true that Indonesia has the advantage of being the host, and Indonesian supporters are famous for being hostile to visitors. let's see how that pans out. may the strongest win.

[seven]

Yes, I think this Thomas Cup should be really great considering how tight it is between the five major nations...

We're going to have fun for sure!! :)

[Cheung]

Originally posted by kwun
2004 Thomas Cup is unique in which no countries seem to be standing out over another. all 5 countries listed i think have an almost equal chance of winning the Cup.

it is true that Indonesia has the advantage of being the host, and Indonesian supporters are famous for being hostile to visitors. let's see how that pans out. may the strongest win. Didn't we think the same about the 2002 TC? Once Indonesia get their doubles sorted out, they will be unstoppable. Taufik will play at 3rd singles

[smash]

I think INA has a good strategi to win TC2004, first they make Taufik as a number three ranking in INA (no player rangking three can beat Taufik), 2nd they try to solve out the MD by breaking the number one INA MD, once they short out you will surprising that INA have two MD that ready to chalange top level MD.. they just need three points to beat other opponents......:D

[Cheung]

Korea could have done the same but messed up last time with strange team tactics. They split up their men's doubles.

[kwun]

this time around, Denmark has gotten stronger, China has gotten stronger. Korea is still at the same level, Malaysia is at simlar level, and then Indonesia is now weaker. so the level of all the nations are even closer than last time. it will be an interesting Cup...

[fhchiang]

i think malaysia stand a good chance...

no doubt china will still have the highest chance...


for malaysia...

LeeCW is proving himself.... and WongCH is on good form.... also.. he's the best when chinese is not around..... LeeTS is not that bad either...

also in the doubles.... it looks like LeeWW/ChoongTF is regaining their form as Malaysian Top Doubles Pair....


Chew/Chan will not be that good next year... because Chan undergone a surgery..... so next year is recovery year.....

so Malaysia Best Bet will be 2 wins from singles... LeeCW and WongCH and a win in doubles LeeWW/ChoongTF .....

[Morten]

I think Denmark is an outsider this year.

In MS they got Gade, Jonassen and Boesen
In MD they got Jonas/lars and Eriksen/Lundgaard

biggest thread would perhaps be from China or Malaysia. China of course i big favourite.

[sinao]

Europe player normally does not have enough stamina when playing in tropic country.

[Hugo]

If INA wants to have Taufik as 3rd singles, who will come 1st and 2nd? Sony Kuncoro and Simon Santoso? Let's say the hypothetical CHN MS lineup to challenge is Lin, Chen and Xia/Bao or any other similar combination, China should then still be able to capture 1st and 2nd singles and 3rd singles against Taufik is most likely down the drain as he's unstoppable on homeground. Then Cai/Fu would be utilized best as 2nd doubles and there's the 3-2 victory!!! :)

Malaysia holds a good chance with the Wong CH, Lee CW, and Choong/Lee setup. But essentially any loss from one of those 3 could be extremely detrimental. But they do have several choices for 3rd position and may come out lucky as in Lee's victory over Taufik last year.

For Denmark to hold victory over any of the other 4 powers, it would essentially have to win both doubles (except possibly against Korea whose singles is slightly weaker than the other 3 but then the KOR doubles are extremely strong).

Korea has a decent chance if they can just win one of the singles as Kim/Ha and Lee/Yoo both can secure points if need be. But Kim/Ha have been beaten by Choong/Lee twice now in a short span showing that they are far from invincible. Korean 2nd and 3rd singles are not on par with the others save for Denmark.

China's MS is strongest overall and at least 2 of 3 points should be secured. Problem is deciding to place who against who. One wrong choice (like Bao against Hashim last time) and they can lose it. If Cai/Fu can keep improving, then they should be able to obtain 1 of 2 points in doubles with Cai/Fu as 2nd doubles.

It's time for the TC to switch hands next year just like the Sudirman Cup did this year!

[whizkelv]

Nominating Jakarta as the host virtually gives Indonesia the Cup.

Forget it, even if the young Chinese pairs of Cai/Fu and Sang/Zheng keeps improving by leaps and bounds and the Indonesian pairs' standard carry on deteriorating. Playing in Jakarta will enable even old mediocre player like Trikus Haryanto to perform miracle. Taufik at no 2 or no 3 will not matter much as he could just blow weak mental players like Chen Hong off without much fuss.

I guess the discussions in this thread will only make sense if TC is played in other parts of the world rather than Indonesia.

Sorry, but just stating the facts!

[wilfredlgf]

The fact goes in recent years that Indonesia seemed to do pretty good in team event as Silvia had indicated, and playing at home some more, what else top expect? Still, there is doubt on whether they could recapture that collective effort that won it many times in the past when the players aren't so consistent?

And Malaysia - individual performance may at time cause much nail biting annoyance but when it comes to team events, somehow, suddenly they click into a formidable group of opponents. What gives?

And China is looking ultra strong of late with their singles players capable of just taking all 3 points to win while their doubles are on their way up. But then again, just as things were looking good - they just don't seem to click as team as recent performance had indicated (I don't know about the SC), instead losing when they should win.

Denmark, Korea? I never considered these two teams, esp Denmark as they have often slipped when it mattered the most. Korea? Things are looking good with Lee HI and the two doubles capable of winning matches. I think Korea will emerge as the Dark Horses.

My bet?
I think China will make it this time, with Indonesia out of the finals for the first time in a long long time. It'd probably be a China vs M'sia Finals.

It's probably the return to the Chinese dominance now since 1982.

[Bor98]

Malaysia....have enough good players & the conditioning. Indonesia will be a tough place to play. The heat & humidity is absolutely stifling, let along inside the stadium. The crowd & the atmosphere, you can't even hear yourself think!

[Loh]

I tend to agree with Hugo that China has the best chance of winning the TC. So strong and dominant are they in the singles that it will really be hard for the other countries to beat them in this department. If you add on one other doubles win from their two fast-improving doubles pairs, they have it all practically sealed up.

Plus, if our BF voters' opinions are not to be slighted, they voted overwhelmingly in favour of China with 40.5%, with Malaysia cominng in a distant second at 24.3%.

But it is still some time from the actual combat and anything can happen in between as well as on the day itself!

[springcoming]

CHN>MAS>KOR>DEN>INA

[Loh]

Originally posted by smash
I think INA has a good strategi to win TC2004, first they make Taufik as a number three ranking in INA (no player rangking three can beat Taufik), 2nd they try to solve out the MD by breaking the number one INA MD, once they short out you will surprising that INA have two MD that ready to chalange top level MD.. they just need three points to beat other opponents......:D

No doubt, playing at home definitely has its advantages.

However, although Indonesia may secure many wins through Taufik at third singles if that is their strategy, but their number one and two singles, especially number two, must be a weaker player. Against China in the finals, I think the singles will weigh in China's favour. No doubt Chen Hong has lost to Taufik in Batam this year, but China may also put someone else to challenge Taufik. China has more to choose from their singles players who are more established internationally, compared with the recent crop of Indonesian players.

Whilst Indonesia's normal doubles pairings have been split and are currently undergoing adjustments with new partners, except for the returned veteran pair of Eng Hian and Flandi Limpele, who may not be fielded, China's young doubles are shaping up quite nicely with opportunities to participate in many international tournaments.

So, despite playing against odds in Indonesia's home ground, China seems to have a slight edge and I think if it really comes to a China-Indonesia showdown, China will prevail with a 3-2 win, coming from 2 singles and 1 doubles. I say 'if', because Malaysia and especially South Korea, seem to have other ideas that may well project them into the Finals! But you bet the wiry China mastermind, Li Yong Bo, will also have other ideas when confronted with perennial adversaries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and S Korea.

[Morten]

In my opinion China is favourite. But i would rate the other 4 powerhouses Denmark, Malaysia, Indonesia and Korea to have almost equal chances.

Indonesia is very strong in their MD with Candra/halim and Flandi/Eng, but in my opinion both has to win if they want to win the match against the 4 other nations. Because Indonesia's MS isnt as strong as the other nations, perhaps if Taufik was at former strengh but he isnt.

Malaysia is perhaps the weakest of the 5. They have Wong Choong Hann as their star and Choong/Lee as a strong pair in the doubles, but the remaining players are either noy good enough or to inconstant.

Korea is a balanced team with Kim/Ha as stars and Yoo/lee as another superstar pair. Lee is a good card to have in single and Shon and Park are also top 20 single class. Perhaps Shon isnt as good as his ranking shows. Perhaps Korea is the team who has the biggest chance to beat China, because of their doubles and Lee who have beaten the chinese armada once before in this years Surdinam Cup. My vote will go to Korea if they meet China in the final.

Denmark is a very strange team. One time they are almost unbeatable the other they can lose very easily. Denmark are strong in the doubles with the world Champions Lars/Jonas and the Sunrise Singapore champions Jens/martin, but Jens/martin are very inconstant sometimes. On the single site they lack a bit. Peter showed us that he perhaps is back with his latest result in China. Jonassen hasn't showed the play he did earlier this year after the WC and Anders Boesen is in my opinion overrated. But surely ypu should count Denmark as favourites if Gade is back on track...

China is the favourite but in my opinion not HOT favourite. They are very strong in MS. But every team has a strong 1 single in Lee,Wong,Gade/Jonassen,Sony and they can defeat on the chinese players. In my opinion China has to win at least 2 singles if they have to win the Thomas Cup becuase their double pairs dont have the experience and needs the last step to be world class players. But still China can win just look at their single players Xia, Chen, Bao and Lin Dan...Impressive :D

[seawell]

CHN>INA>MAS>KOR>DEN

[ants]

China will still be the favourites. But playing in Jakarta would be different. Most Chinese fall when they play in Indonesia. Home ground is certainly give the upperhand to Indonesia although they are weaker this year. Anyway my Bets will be the top 3. China, Malaysia and Indonesia. Hopefully the Malaysia team will be able to got to the finals , consistency is their problem.

[jkusmanto]

Smash and Loh,

I think it is not the Indo's tactics to put Taufik to the 3rd place.
Now Taufik is not trained by Joko in Pelatnas (National Training Centre), but he is trained by a coach from his club in Bandung.
He moved out from Pelatnas since he won Indonesia Open after 'crash' with national single coach Joko.
Since he moved, his performance fell down.

For me, Indonesia still favorite to win the TC-2004, beside China.
Like all of you has said, playing in Jakarta for visiter is like playing in 'hell'.
I think the Indonesia team will be like this :
1. Sonny
2. Taufik
3. Simon
4. Candera/Halim
5. Flandi/Eng

[Yudhi]

Also bear in mind that INA second stringer had beaten MAS's first to win the SEAG team gold medal (Sony beat Wong twice) :)

[Loh]

Originally posted by Yudhi
Also bear in mind that INA second stringer had beaten MAS's first to win the SEAG team gold medal (Sony beat Wong twice) :)

Yes. but don't forget that before this, Choong Hann had beaten Sony thrice consecutively! And at the recently concluded Copenhagen Masters, Choong Hann emerged champion beating the likes of Taufik, Gade and Jonassen. You would agree, these are no mean opponents, especially defeating the Danes on their own soil and in front of their own fans!

Granted Candra Wijaya and Halim Haryanto also did well to take the men's doubles crown by beating the young and impressive Danish pair of Lars Paaske and Jonas Rasmussen, 15-11;15-4. If Candra and Halim continue to blend well, they will most likely score a point for Indonesia at the TC.

But, of course, the Copenhagen Masters Invitation is not a very representative international. Because of the nature of the event, not the world's best are represented, but it is still world-class.

As I have said, it is still a few months more before the TC in Jakarta and anything can happen, even during the competitions. You bet the contending countries are making serious preparations to peak their players at the right time, but even then their form on the day may be disappointing. The TC represents world badminton team supremacy for one's country, an honour not to be missed!

As for Indonesia's final line-up, I think jkusmanto's prediction may come true. Unless they decide to field Sigit and his new partner to displace the veteran pair of Flandy/Eng Hian. It depends on how both these pairs shape up towards TC deadline.

IBF may not agree to Taufik being ranked third singles. Not sure about the exact rules but I thought participating countries have to submit their players' list based on current rankings. How they do this is another matter.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by whizkelv
Nominating Jakarta as the host virtually gives Indonesia the Cup.

Forget it, even if the young Chinese pairs of Cai/Fu and Sang/Zheng keeps improving by leaps and bounds and the Indonesian pairs' standard carry on deteriorating. Playing in Jakarta will enable even old mediocre player like Trikus Haryanto to perform miracle. Taufik at no 2 or no 3 will not matter much as he could just blow weak mental players like Chen Hong off without much fuss.

I guess the discussions in this thread will only make sense if TC is played in other parts of the world rather than Indonesia.

Sorry, but just stating the facts!

It's very true the home crowd will hype up the players. But don't forget it will bring up the un-necessary pressure at the same time, especially if INA did not do well in early match ups.

The problem for INA is, none of them are superior (besides Taufik @ home). Their 2 other MS and newly formed 2 MD pairs still need some time to prove they could perform well (against top of the top elites from other nations) in a more consistant basis.

Really wonder if they can still capture the cup if they happen to lose a "secured" (as they thought, i.e. lose a MD to CHN or lose a MS to KOR) point earlier in the match or not.

[taneepak]

Although Indonesia looks formidable at home, I would dearly like to see Denmark or Korea winning the Thomas Cup, as this will be good for the game. Indonesia, China and Malaysia are the only select group to have won in the past 55 years. This is a long time. We need new blood, and the status quo is not necessarily good for the future of the game. Denmark was nearly there a few times but stumbled when it counted.
What about the US? Some of you may not know, the US west coast was pretty strong in badminton at one time, strong enough to enter the finals of the 1952 Thomas Cup. No, this is not a tall story!

[cappy75]

I share your sentiment, Taneepak... but such is the state of affairs in North America that badminton has made little gains in captivating anybody other than those already playing the sport-- mostly Asian immigrants and second-third generations families who immigrated to N.A. As a result, not as much investment in the sport as badminton playing Asian countries. Badminton need to be in the primetime... NBC had better not screw it up, otherwise the sport will not grow as much.

You get what you invested... and China is reaping the rewards now after years of creating an effective system of churning out champions. They have the resource and the methods down pat. It'll probably take a miracle to even deny China most... if not all... of the top spots. If any minor power country is gonna succeed marginally in this sport, they'll need to look to China, entice some of the talent (especially coaches) over and integrate them into their own system (hopefully with the requisite investment and participation). But it won't happen in the near future given the present situation.

[cappy75]

Yes, that was 1952... so how long ago was that? :rolleyes:


Originally posted by taneepak
What about the US? Some of you may not know, the US west coast was pretty strong in badminton at one time, strong enough to enter the finals of the 1952 Thomas Cup. No, this is not a tall story!

[jump_smash]

Originally posted by Loh
IBF may not agree to Taufik being ranked third singles. Not sure about the exact rules but I thought participating countries have to submit their players' list based on current rankings. How they do this is another matter.


Indonesia is quite crafty with this and have done this in the past, Taufik not playing
in many GP's thus ranking dropping and playing him down the order.

Must say wasn't very effective in 2002.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by taneepak
I would dearly like to see Denmark or Korea winning the Thomas Cup, as this will be good for the game. Indonesia, China and Malaysia are the only select group to have won in the past 55 years. This is a long time. We need new blood, and the status quo is not necessarily good for the future of the game.

I understand ur feeling.

However, whether a sport is going to grow, and let the minor powerhouse (even the current no name ones) to play catch up, is NOT to give them favorite, but down to the fact whether they want to try or not.

A good example is basketball. In 1992, Dream Team I trashed every other team by average of 30+ points. In the following yrs, Dream Team II, III, etc continue to dominate in big events such as WC or Olympics. Many ppl predicated, that no one can match NBA in the next 50 yrs. So, should everyone just give up, and complain the game is no fun no more? NO!!! Many teams trained hard, and greatly improved. They reduced teh gap in between by huge margin. Then, finally, after the self destruction, Dream Team got beat up badly in 2002. They lost 3 of the last 4 games.

Therefore, to be good in a sport, we need to put effort in. Just sit back, and talking about whether the others are too weak or too strong to play with, but don't put into any effort, will be even worse for the game itself.

[SteveStanley]

Denmark have never won Thomas Cup before, and they normally do not play good in Jakarta, it's too hot.

Korea are getting stronger in singles, but I'm not sure if they can win the Cup.

Malaysia have a chance this time, but I would think Indonesia and China would meet in the final. If that's the case, strategy would play the role.

[Morten]

Do count the danes in as they have 2 world class pairs in MD. In my opinion they have a big chance of getting at least 1 point in MD in every match and with a Gade near his peak who never has lost a single in thomas Cup, Denmark looks strong. But I still think China is the hot favourite this year.

[floorfilla]

My heart says Indonesia but my head says China..

And all I can say is, may the team which display their best badminton skills, with the best team spirit win!! ;)

And I pray that it will be Indonesia!!

[hcyong]

I say it all depends on the form of the day.

Take Malaysia (cause among all, I know the team the most) for instance.
On his day, Wong CH can be the best player in the world. But he can also be a second-class player just as easily. (out against Lin Dan, Lee Hyun Il, Peter Gade, Sony)
Lee CW, as second or third singles, can be extremely hard to beat if he's not up to his Ong Ewe Hock antics.
Roslin can draw any opponent to long rallies and gradually wear them out. Formidable as the third string.
Whenever Choong/Lee play against the top pairs of the world, I always get the feeling that they can get an upset, and half the time, they do. They have the capability. But when they play against some not-so-top pairs, I sometimes also have the sinking feeling that they will be beaten, and sometimes they do. They have the weakness. So ...
Chan/Chew should have easily been the top 10 pairs in the world, and the fact that they are not is certainly a waste on such a talent as Chan. Who knows, maybe the Thomas Cup is their return to top flight.

In summary, if every member of the Malaysian team plays to his best (and their best opponents co-incidentally also suffer some loss of confidence), then Malaysia can win it.

We can say about the same about the other 4 great teams in the Thomas Cup. It may well turn out that one team will dominate over the rest, or some will crumble uncharacteristically (I won't be surprised if it's Malaysia or China, anyone could), but at the moment it's hard to tell.

[Jofianty]

No doubt at all, it's gonna be Indonesia's, not because they are the best, but hosting it virtually earned them the title!!
Quite sick of IBF decision!!!:mad:

when it comes to question "Who will win Thomas Cup 2004"
i have the same answer with Floorfilla 'My heart says Indonesia but my head says China..'
he..he..he.. :D

the strong candidate to win thomas cup '04 still china.
they have lots of superior MS players (lin dan, xia, bao, chen hong), besides that they have Cai fu in MD.

i think if indonesia win the thomas cup 2004 that's because they are a good team and they play good badminton.
Playing in Jakarta not only will give an advantage for the team <because the crowd will cheer for them>,
but also will give some pressure because lot of people hope you to win.
(2 years ago when thomas cup 2002 played in china, china lost to malaysia in semifinal)

[ymq03]

I think INA only have very slim chance to win TC this time if the event does not hold in Jakarta. The home ground give them the big hope. CHINA has the strongest team right now, but most of players are young. I just very wonder their performance in Jakarta. My guess is INA can get TC if they can reach final. And CHINA can get TC if they do not meet INA on the way except the group match. If CHINA faces INA in the final, it is 50/50. At that time CHINA has nothing to worry, it is the battle. And fans will bring the stadium down if INA lose in final regardless which opponent is. It will be very interesting TC this time.

[jaclyn]

vote malaysia.........................
wch will be difficufl player 2 beat if he play very well........
lee chong wei... nothing 2 lose....
chong-lee if they play with less mistake than they might beat everyone......
:cool:

[SJ_Tan]

I agree with hcyong, even if u're the best player in the world and ur consistent most of the time when playing in competitions, i think that if ur not in form during that particular day u could very well be a disaster on the court with many unforced errors which could cost u the match.

I think that the Thomas Cup finals will definitely have China in it becos throughout the years they have been the most formidable opponents in the world. They will either be going against hosts Indonesia or dark horse Malaysia. The unfortunate thing is that Malaysia has many "holes" in their team thats why they are considered to be one of the weakest teams compared to China, Denmark, Indonesia and a new and improved Korea.

Hmm..wonder if Malaysia is able to pull of a unexpected upset during the TC...:)

[jkusmanto]

Malaysia, Denmark and Korea come to Jakarta with their old squad.
I see no different. The players are almost the same as 2002.

Malaysia :
From 2002 squad : Wong CH, Lee TS, Roslin, Hafiz, Lee WW/Choong TF, Chan CM/Chew CE.
Added by : Lee CW, Koo KK.
The core of the team is still the 2002 squad.

Denmark :
From 2002 squad : Kenneth Jonassen, Anders Boesen, Peter Rasmussen, Lars Paaske/Jonas Rasmussen, Jens Eriksen/Martin Lundgaard Hansen (Peter didn't come, he was injured).
Added by : Peter Gade, Niels Christian Kaldau and Mathias Boe.
The core of the team is still the 2002 squad + Peter.

Korea :
From 2002 squad : Lee HI, Shon SM, Jang YS, Kim/Ha, Lee/Yoo.
Added by : Park TS and Kim/Yim.
The core of the team is still the 2002 squad + Park.

China :
From 2002 squad : Xia XZ, Bao CL, Chen H, Lin D.
Added by : Chen Y, Cai/Fu, Sang/Zheng and Chen QQ.

Indonesia :
From 2002 squad : Taufik H, Sony DK, Candra, Tri Kush.
Added by : Simon S, Wimpie M, Alven/Luluk, Eng/Flendi

Just China and Indonesia have a big change of thier squad.
Look at the player list up here, I think the TC final will be played between China - Indonesia.
China is strong in singles and Indonesia is strong doubles.
I am curious which strategy Li YB and Christian will take. But I think their will fix their strategy after their crash in group A qualification round.

[wilfredlgf]

From my point of view, in a China vs Indonesia tie, the Archilles heel of China is likely to be their doubles. High in talent and youth, their shortcomings perhaps from impatience and a little lack of variety in strategy compared to their Indonesian counterparts. We have seen how Cai/Fu fall to 'older' opponents who employ clever adaptations from experience - vs Choong/Lee for example. Perhaps only for this edition of TC, and I'd expect them to overcome that in the future.

I can't really see the Chinese singles dropping a point in their ties in Jakarta.

Thus, I believe Indonesia would go all out to take the points in doubles with Flande/Eng Hian, Candra/Tri Kush as well as Joker cards Alven/Luluk. Then, it will be up to both Taufik and Sony to overcome the supreme power of the singles to take one point and win it.

And that can work, with them playing in the Jakarta.
And that could also be the main strategy for their opponents with strong doubles pairs.

[Pecheur]

I can't really see the Chinese singles dropping a point in their ties in Jakarta.


Really? Taufik is lethal in Indo, especially since he'll be playing second singles with any of Bao, Chen Hong or Xia who far less dangerous than Lin Dan currently.

Actually Taufik's is even 2-2 with Bao, 5-0 with Chen Hong and 3-2 with Xia.

[Woven]

I can't really see the Chinese singles dropping a point in their ties in Jakarta.


what i can say is that i can't really see the chinese winning their tie against Indonesia. Lin Dan is most likely to clinch their first singles, but that will most probably be it. both doubles will surely be clinched by Indonesia although Fu and Cai are likely to put a tough fight. and Taufik will probably do his part and win the tie for Indonesia. Plus the crowd factor will definitely play a significant part in this particular tie.

[hcyong]

what i can say is that i can't really see the chinese winning their tie against Indonesia. Lin Dan is most likely to clinch their first singles, but that will most probably be it. both doubles will surely be clinched by Indonesia although Fu and Cai are likely to put a tough fight. and Taufik will probably do his part and win the tie for Indonesia. Plus the crowd factor will definitely play a significant part in this particular tie.

Against any other team, I would say the Chinese are most likely to take the 3 singles ties. But against Indonesia, there is a dangerous second singles in Taufik. I think China would a better chance if Taufik is the first.

Based on your hypothesis, Indonesia takes 2 doubles.
China takes 2 singles (Indon's 3rd singles - Simon - surely would have even lesser chance than Sang/Zheng in winning)
So it goes down to the Taufik tie. But China's second singles (could be Bao, Chen, Xia) is not a pushover either. China also has the flexibility of choosing from 3 players for the second singles, as I think even Chen Yu should have no problems dispatching Simon Santoso.

[Loh]

:p
There will be great upsets at the TC Finals, no less fuelled by the thunderous eruption of the Indonesian fans in support of their compatriots against all opposition! Even mighty China will fall on its knees, unable to counter the diversified attacks of the patriotic Indonesians on home soil!

The writing is on the wall; the images are compelling; there is no escape! :D :D :D

[hcyong]

:p
There will be great upsets at the TC Finals, no less fuelled by the thunderous eruption of the Indonesian fans in support of their compatriots against all opposition! Even mighty China will fall on its knees, unable to counter the diversified attacks of the patriotic Indonesians on home soil!

The writing is on the wall; the images are compelling; there is no escape! :D :D :D

... or you'll eat your slippers? :)

[Loh]

... or you'll eat your slippers? :)
Sometimes you need to let your imagination run wild! And not to take it too seriously!

Anyway, what's your bet? I still take Indonesia to win! :p

[hcyong]

Sometimes you need to let your imagination run wild! And not to take it too seriously!

Anyway, what's your bet? I still take Indonesia to win! :p

I'll take the chicken-out way by taking China. If I lose, I promise I won't eat my slippers.

[jkusmanto]

In my first prediction, the line up of Indonesia team was :
1. Sonny
2. Taufik
3. Simon
4. Candera/Halim
5. Flandi/Eng

It seems that no change in singles, and a little bit in double.
So the line seems to be :
1. Sonny
2. Taufik
3. Simon
4. Alve/Luluk or Flandi/Eng
5. Flandi/Eng or Candera/Tri Kush

Indo vs Korea, it will be 3-2 (2 singles and 1 double)
Indo vs Malaysia or Indo vs Denmark, it will be 4-1 (2 singles and 2 doubles) or 3-2 (1 single and 2 doubles)
Indo vs China, it will be 3-2 (1 single and 2 double) or 2-3 (2 doubles).


:p
There will be great upsets at the TC Finals, no less fuelled by the thunderous eruption of the Indonesian fans in support of their compatriots against all opposition! Even mighty China will fall on its knees, unable to counter the diversified attacks of the patriotic Indonesians on home soil!

The writing is on the wall; the images are compelling; there is no escape! :D :D :D

Loh :
I am sure that will happen in Bung Karno Stadion.
The Indo fans will more crazy if Indo vs Malaysia than vs China.
Remember the incidents in the same stadion in 1967 and 1994, both were Indo vs Malaysia.
But the organizing committee has promised to conduct a good pleasant sfeer in the stadion.

Against Indo in final (if Indo goes to final :D ) has to against 3 opponents :
-The players of Indo's team
-The fanatic publics
-And maybe the lines men.

So, you has to have a very strong mentality to get up from this kind of "crash".

[Woven]

Against Indo in final (if Indo goes to final :D ) has to against 3 opponents :
-The players of Indo's team
-The fanatic publics
-And maybe the lines men.


I'd like to add another opponent to anyone who plays against Indo
- Their own concern for safety :D .
i dont think they wanna stick around for too long if they happen to be upset the Indo fans

[Loh]

I'll take the chicken-out way by taking China. If I lose, I promise I won't eat my slippers.
:p
Good! At least we'll have a good fight on our hands.

If I don't make it to Bung Kano Stadium, I hope there will be a live telecast so that I could enjoy all the proceedings over my favourite cup of coffee and a little tid-bits (I tried to avoid my favourite ground nuts, but I don't think I can resist).

Did I say great upsets? Yes, jusmanto may even surprise himself to see China being thrashed by his countrymen, 4-1.

Hcyong, were you at the ABC? I think you must have been, as I myself could not resist the thought of missing it and went up KL the last minute on Friday afternoon. after mulling it over in the morning when I went to the office. Don't you agree that the Indonesian men players were in devastating form? As what Misbun and Kim Hock had said, the Malaysians were disappointing even on home ground.

We'll have to wait and see. ;) :) :D

[jkusmanto]

:p
Good! At least we'll have a good fight on our hands.

If I don't make it to Bung Kano Stadium, I hope there will be a live telecast so that I could enjoy all the proceedings over my favourite cup of coffee and a little tid-bits (I tried to avoid my favourite ground nuts, but I don't think I can resist).

Did I say great upsets? Yes, jusmanto may even surprise himself to see China being thrashed by his countrymen, 4-1.

Don't you agree that the Indonesian men players were in devastating form? As what Misbun and Kim Hock had said, the Malaysians were disappointing even on home ground.

We'll have to wait and see. ;) :) :D


Sure there is a telecast, TC/UC without telecast is .... nothing :D
Indonesian TV : Trans TV will live when Indo plays + semi + final.
If Indo can beat China 4-1 in final, I will buy you a drink Loh..... :D

What did you mean by this sentence : "... the Indonesian men players were in devastating form? "

[jamesd20]

Sure there is a telecast, TC/UC without telecast is .... nothing :D
Indonesian TV : Trans TV will live when Indo plays + semi + final.
If Indo can beat China 4-1 in final, I will buy you a drink Loh..... :D

What did you mean by this sentence : "... the Indonesian men players were in devastating form? "


Think he means indonesian players were in great form in ABC champs.

They were.

I got a feeling INA will win, not sure why everyone raves about CHN doubles, but they have yet prove themselves consistenly against top pairs:

cai/fu great on their day, but can be inconsistent against top pairs, as Kim/Ha, Lee/choong, Any INA pair. They are very good at beating weaker pairs though.


sang/zheng too inconsistent, they can beat the best, then lose to USA pair. cant rely on them.


zhang/chen/chen..... enough said


The exciting thing about the thomas cup is that it is all the top players playing the top players, so it is quite unpredictable in individual rubbers. I feel INA save their best performances for thomas cup, as the doubles know what they have to do (win both) and this is advantage for them, as they are talented and need pressure to perform to potential. and all they (INA) need is 1/3 singles.

Sure China singles is strong, but since when was tc won on singles alone, otherwise CHN would have won past 5, not INA. My vote is that all top nations are very close this time (maybe malaysia off the pace), and CHN, KOR, INA, DEN are all capable, there is no clear favourite in reality (on paper CHN would walk it), and there are no dark horses.

[Gade supporter]

it is funny to see that we count Korea as the team with worst chances. Look at the team maybe 2 doubles in top 5 of the world, and Lee Hyun Il can play very well, hasnt been doing so well lately, then Shon Seung Mo that can play very good if he dosnt get to nervous, and then Park Tae Sang a player in very good shape at the moment(semifinals Korea, Japan and ABC) My favourites for the titel is Denamrk, China and Korea.

[jamesd20]

I count Malaysia as the one with worst chances of the big nations (MAL, KOR, DEN, INA, CHN), as they have only one consistent singles player(wong), and one semi consistent doubles pair. Their second doubles is very inconsistent, and other singles (hafiz, LCW, roslin) have difficulties maintaining form. If their singles players fire though, and Choong/lee can do what they are capable of, then they have a good chance.

DEN, INA, KOR, CHN have equal chance in my mind

[seven]

Choong/Lee might not be representing Malaysia!

Lee Wan Wah is injured!! :( (see here (http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15270))

[jamesd20]

If so, then they definitley have the worst chances of the big 5.

[kwun]

Choong/Lee might not be representing Malaysia!

Lee Wan Wah is injured!! :( (see here (http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15270))
yes. that's bad news indeed for Malaysia. depending on the severity of the injury, that may nullify the momentum that Choong/Lee has built up before the cup. they have been more consistent than they ever recently and has shown that if they play their best, they have the ability to beat the best pairs.

however, we must also remember that LeeWW *is* prone to injury and that's the major reason why Choong/Lee has not shown much results in the past couple of years. if LeeWW acts up again, that will be bad news for them.

[Loh]

Sure there is a telecast, TC/UC without telecast is .... nothing :D
Indonesian TV : Trans TV will live when Indo plays + semi + final.
If Indo can beat China 4-1 in final, I will buy you a drink Loh..... :D

What did you mean by this sentence : "... the Indonesian men players were in devastating form? "
:p
Thanks jkusmanto for your offer of a drink all the way from Belgium! I don't think you can make it to Jakarta for the TC, otherwise I'll join you.

Obviously, even you don't think Indonesia can create a great upset. When I mentioned that their "players were in devastating form", I was referring to their performance during the ABC in KL. I was there from the QF onwards and saw how good both Sony, Taufik and your doubles players were. They were 'unbeatable' by all others. Their form was 'devastating'; they created great havoc to the other players.

Hafiz matched Sony during the first game of the QF but still lost and he was completely outgunned during the second. Taufik fooled around with Ng Wei, although the latter was playing "textbook" badminton as described by Bbn. In the doubles, the non-Indonesian teams were no match for the Indonesians. The M'sian pairs were disappointing! Not even the better prepared Koreans can match Sony and Taufik! And we are just about a week away from the TC Finals!

Yes, China stayed away from the ABC and maybe thought that they could better utilize the time for further preparations. This may be to their detriment as real match competitions such as the ABC are a good tool to sharpen the players' skills, senses and temperament.

Indonesia's trump cards are in their first two singles and any two doubles and as I have said they are peaking at the right time and in 'devastating' form! The other point that Indonesia can rely on is none other than their famous spectators and fans support. So Indonesia may even be able to make a clean sweep. A 4-1 winning outcome is a fair possibility. A 3-2 prediction is entirely achievable!

[nauknip]

as I have said they are peaking at the right time and in 'devastating' form! The other point that Indonesia can rely on is none other than their famous spectators and fans support.

Yea I agree. The Indonesian supporters were already so powerful in KL, so much so that even Ra/Kim seemed affected and I was suspecting if I was really where I think I was. I can't imagine Jakarta. Anyhow, it's great to see the Indonesians back.

[libra]

Thomas cup this year - as always - has 5 contenders, some of course stronger than others. Here's what I think:

Korea: Never done too well in Thomas cup and I don't expect them to this time around. Too dependent on their two doubles who of late are far from invincible. Also, stealing a point in singles is going to be a big ask... may cause an upset along the way but will not make it past the semis.

Denmark: Another team that promises much but in the end fails when the matters most. Too dependant on the two doubles and Gade winning as Johanssen and Boesen will always start as underdogs against the other big teams. Would be good to see them play Korea somewhere along the line... will have to wait another 2 years for another change at the cup

Malaysia: Potential spoilers but let down by inconsistency. Their week link will be the 2nd doubles as Chan/Chew are not up to the level one would expect them to be at. Everyone seems to be raving about WongCH but I think their trump card has to be Roslin. Remember not to long ago he won every single match of his at 3rd singles?... potential finalist depending on how the draw pans out.

China: As always coming into the final rounds with an abundance of talent in the singles but so often let down by doubles. Are Chai/Fu, Sang/Zeng good enough to deliver a point when it matters? I doubt it. Will have to rely on winning all 3 singles against all other 'big guns' and I just can't seem them keeping an unbeaten singles through out the final... second favourites to the host who have the home court.

Indonesia: Weak like = Simon Santoso at 3rd singles, unpredictable Taufik at 2nd singles. Doubles were in good form at the recent ABC but can they keep it up? Most probably: YES especially at home... my own opinion is that they are slight favouritest over China.

Summary:

CN are the logical favourites but the pressure will get to their singles players and doubles will be unable to rise to the occasion.

MAS have the ability to beat the two favourites (CN, INA) but also lose to the two underdogs (KOR/DEN) and will very much depend on how they play on the day.

Ina have the advantage over CN and MAS but may face more difficulty against DEN/KOR who have strong doubles pairs.

DEN/KOR underdogs and with the luck of the draw could make the final but I can't see them wining it.

A lot depends on match stratagies (eg, Malaysia may lose to Thailand to avoid CN/INA in the q-finals) and who plays who in the semis.

[Loh]

Yea I agree. The Indonesian supporters were already so powerful in KL, so much so that even Ra/Kim seemed affected and I was suspecting if I was really where I think I was. I can't imagine Jakarta. Anyhow, it's great to see the Indonesians back.
Hi nauknip,

So you were there after all, just as I was! :p Hope you've enyoyed yourself.

When Sony and Taufik changed their minds and decided to compete, I just had to go. And it was a last minute decision, in part prompted by Ronald's appearance in the QF. But what a disaster it became when Ronald could not even produce half of his form against Bao during the Japan Open and he lost meekly to his perennial foe, Shon of Korea, who was most effective with his attacking play. Ronald was slow and allowed Shon to dominate the proceedings. I was so helpless myself at not being able to cheer for Ronald and remained silent throughout, virtually staring into blank space!

This time round I stayed in the Bt Bintang area as suggested by so many M'sian BFers and got to know Jln Alor better, thanks to taneepak. True enough I was 'accosted' by strangers willing to 'arrange' a good time. But Jln Alor is also a hawker food paradise, although I wasn't able to see any of the foreign players on the two evenings I was there.

As expected the badminton players were housed in the Federal Hotel at Bt Bintang, quite a handsome place in the inside as I think it was renovated perhaps not too long ago. The rates here are moderately high at about RM190 for a single room, but those at the Royal Bintang further down the road were slightly higher at about RM200. However, there were cheaper hotels for around RM50-80 per night and the so-called budget hotels as well. Bt Bintang is alive both day and night and you can hitch a free ride on the players' bus after the matches each night. I did this for two nights and was most grateful during one when it rained heavily.

This time around I got to visit lots more places just by walking and using the LRT (Light Rail Transport). However, during the day, the sun was merciless and I was soaking wet in my own perspiration. The more interesting places include the adjacent roads around Bt Bintang that cover also Times Square; Pudu Raya, Masjid Jamek/Pasar Seni, the Central Market at Jln Hang Kasturi and Jalan Petaling, which is reminiscent of Singapore's old Chinatown and Change Alley located not too far from the old but majestic KTM railway station, where I subsequently took a NICE midnight coach back to Singapore -a good 5-hour ride home! The earlier times were all taken up. And with hardly an hour's sleep in my familiar home surroundings before I set off once again for the office on Black Monday!

[jkusmanto]

:p
Thanks jkusmanto for your offer of a drink all the way from Belgium! I don't think you can make it to Jakarta for the TC, otherwise I'll join you.
.....
Indonesia's trump cards are in their first two singles and any two doubles and as I have said they are peaking at the right time and in 'devastating' form! The other point that Indonesia can rely on is none other than their famous spectators and fans support. So Indonesia may even be able to make a clean sweep. A 4-1 winning outcome is a fair possibility. A 3-2 prediction is entirely achievable!

No. Loh. I can't make it this time.
Maybe some other time, another tournament. In Europe maybe ;) ? Who knows ?
I am very please to see Indo back again to the top. Especially in single.
I hope that Indo can win and the players will not disappoint their public. Otherwise........ you know what will happen if Indo loses in Jakarta.

If we look at the Indo's performance in KL. The chance is bigger to hold TC for 2 years ahead.

[jkusmanto]

Choong/Lee might not be representing Malaysia!

Lee Wan Wah is injured!! :( (see here (http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15270))

2 years ago he was injured in Japan Open 2002.
Just a couple weeks before TC in Guang Zhou, and played very bad in the final against Indo.
The year he is also injured.
What a pitty. Poor Wan Wah. :(

[ant0niu588]

I thnk Indonesia will win although china teams are stronger. Playing at home have lots of advantages to opponents who have weak mental. If they are affected then indo will win. If not, then i think china will win. It all depends on their mental power and the crowd. hope indonesia will keep the title for the 6th time in a row

[wilfredlgf]

I am downplaying Korea now. With Kim's regular partner out, they have lost 1/2 a strong doubles. Their almost certain 1 pts are now halved, with Lee/Yoo carrying the torch. Unless Lee HI can step up his erratic performance, I guess Korea's adventure is very much gone.

[jkusmanto]

I am downplaying Korea now. With Kim's regular partner out, they have lost 1/2 a strong doubles. Their almost certain 1 pts are now halved, with Lee/Yoo carrying the torch. Unless Lee HI can step up his erratic performance, I guess Korea's adventure is very much gone.

I feel very sorry to what happen to Ha TK.
It seems like Korea has few chance to win with his injured.

Ha TK "down, but Lee WW is back. One down one back. :D

[silvia]

Most prob Indonesia will retain their title....they are super strong when playing in front of their crowds...

[HoNgHoNg]

Most prob Indonesia will retain their title....they are super strong when playing in front of their crowds...
i guess so..... home team always seems to have advantage

[mirrura]

My vote goes to Indonesia, even though I will support Malaysia all the way. Indonesia has got all it takes to become the winner, although China team seems to be the strongest team. Korea? nah..I don't think they will go far. Their singles are weak compared to other teams and their doubles players might just lost to any Ina or Chn pairs which are going to be fielded.

In my opinion, playing in front of the home crowd can also be very pressure but since Indonesia's players are mostly "not new" eg Taufik, Candra, Sigit, Halim etc...I bet they can take the pressure. However, what about Sony? He is very likely to be playing the first singles and is expected to deliver a point there.

As for Malaysia, we haven't seen the scratch pair of Chew CHoon Eng - Koo Kien Keat performing yet. But I doubt they will earn point for Msia especially when up against the Indo pair.

[TourSpEdition]

Wow.Lots of peoples looking up to China.Yeah i agreed they are strong indeed.But gotta support my home country :D.But expected malaysia may have slightly less chances to win than Indonesia and China :( .

Gogo Malaysia!
Malaysia Boleh~! :D