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kwun
04-09-2001, 06:38 PM
Another excellent <a target=top_ href="http://www.nst.com.my/z//Current_News/MM/Sunday/Sport/20010401092529/">article on training</a> by the former great Tan Aik Huang.

what it boils down to is really 4 words: "no pain, no gain".

he mentioned "hitting the wall" in endurance events such as marathon. some refer it as "bonking". the time when the energy store in the body is completely depleted and the muscles is working on reserve alone. having hit that a few times during long distance biking, i can atest that it is a very painful experience and requires enormous mental strength to overcome.

badminton takes that a step further, no only does one need mental strength to overcome the lack of strength and pain, one also need to keep the mind clear enough to think about strokes and strategy.

great article, IMHO.

cooler
04-09-2001, 09:04 PM
yes, it is a enlightening article. It reinforces the importance of mental toughness especially for high level performance. At high level badminton, says semi final and above, for example, the difference in physical ability between players are not too much. From here onward, it is the mental toughness that would guide the individual success. Mental toughness include determination to tell the body to make quality shot under exhaustion, ability to think clearly when to and what change of game plan to counter your opponent winning ways, and attain awareness of his surrounding to control the pace of game.


cooler

Steplantis
04-09-2001, 09:10 PM
Just a quick question - at the start of this article he mentions that he`s written 2 previous articles, but I`ve tried searching for them to no avail. Any idea where I can find them???

Cheung
04-09-2001, 09:14 PM
Use the word "bonking" with some caution when talking to somebody from England.
It has a completely different meaning.

I have never heard it being used in the context you have just mentioned. Is this common in the US?

kwun
04-09-2001, 09:20 PM
hehe. yeah. alright, kids, next page...

yeah. they use it quite a lot here to refer to "hitting the wall", mostly in the cycling field.

this reminds me. the past year's Tour de France, American cyclist Lance Armstrong bonked in one of the stages. and he explicitly used the term in a public interview. i wonder what the British public thought he meant. :)

viver
04-09-2001, 09:41 PM
It reminds me of my coach telling that they practiced often until there was no more sweat coming out of the body and they had to be carried off the court. Is that "hitting the wall"?

Kelvin
04-10-2001, 01:10 AM
I believe that sounds about right.
I've hit the wall many, many occassions not just in badminton.

It's actually a great feeling, because I know that I've accomplished all that I could, and went down swinging.
Very interesting article. :)
I liked it.

cooler
04-10-2001, 01:45 AM
we know, we know, drinking can do that too :) or do you have other habits you want to share with us:P

Kelvin
04-10-2001, 02:03 AM
lol
yeah, I smoke heroin, and umm... all those other bad drugs out there, and needles and stuff...
lmao

jk

cooler
04-10-2001, 02:08 AM
good, that explain this
** I've hit the wall many, many occassions not just in badminton.** :lol:

Brett
04-10-2001, 11:11 AM
Cheung, when my family lived in England about 20 years ago we stayed at a very nice bed and breakfast on holiday in York. The proprietor asked my mother "Shall I come by and knock you up in the morning?" Our jaws dropped and finally my mom responded, in a very indignant fashion "I beg your pardon!" For a Brit, the expression meant "In lieu of an alarm clock, shall I knock on your door to wake you up tomorrow morning," whereas for an American, the phrase meant "Shall I impregnate you tomorrow morning?"

There are some other interesting little differences in terms. One of the oddest ones is the name of an English dessert - spotted dick. Ask the average American on the street if he or she would like some of that and he/she will either hit you or recommend a shot of penicilin.

Cheung
04-10-2001, 11:19 AM
I've not heard of spotted dick.
Knocking one up. Yes, that can easily be misconstrued.

Brett
04-10-2001, 11:50 AM
Viver, I think that level of dehydration and exhaustion is beyond "the wall." Training until one is incapable of further movement is not a good idea, especially in the week before a competition, because it will take too long for the body to recuperate. I think it's ok to train to the point of hitting the wall once every four or five days.

There is no good reason to train or even compete until sweating stops because that means the athlete is excessively dehydrated. It is a simple matter to keep drinking liquids. When US runner Suzy Hamilton quit on the final 100m of the womens' 1500m in the Olympics, I thought her excuse of dehydration was ridiculous (actually, I think she just gave up); in fact, some of my friends, who are themselves runners and personally know Hamilton, agreed with me. There is no way that a runner, or any other competitive athlete for that matter, should ever allow him or herself to get dehydrated in that fashion.

Kelvin
04-10-2001, 05:46 PM
Yeah, I agree with what you're saying...
Sounds kind of deadly.

kwun
04-10-2001, 05:56 PM
while i agree with Brett that there is no physical advantage to training to such extreme, i do see that it is a mental training. during a competition, if both sides are exhausted to such a point, the side that has stronger mental strength will win.

much easier said than done though, the brain is very good at tell us that it is enough and we should stop.

kinda reminds me of the Sun Jun vs. Rasmussen WC finals. both players had immense mental ability, Sun lost due to physically broke down with a cramp.

hmm... ok. bad example. :P


how about '98 Uber Cup, Gong vs. Mia? Mia had match point on the second game but she was so exhausted she was leaning against the side banners gasping for air. Gong saw that and then went on and won the match. and eventually the Cup.

Kelvin
04-10-2001, 06:02 PM
I would really like to see that match... because I want to see the toll it took on the players, and how they reacted on court.

I honestly need to watch more video footage of the pros, because I'm thinking my skills will soon hit a plateau...I'm sure after some more video footage, and training, I can take my play to another level. :)

btw Kwun, did you get my email yet?

Bbn
04-10-2001, 11:38 PM
Come to think of it some internationals say they actually keep

an eye on opponents and try to spot signs of exhaustion and actually modify their game to exploit it.I think it is easily done

when you play Xia Xuan Ze or Marleve Maniaky.

viver
04-10-2001, 11:56 PM
That's the point. How do you know where is your limit? When you play you are motivated by the quality of your opponent. If he can move so do you ... because you believe in yourself, your strength and above all your invincibility.

kwun
04-11-2001, 12:19 AM
viver,

when you "hit the wall", you know it. you will feel very weak, your legs fells like jello/jelly, 20% oxygen seems too little, your vision starts to go blurry. etc.

will power of course, can sometime overcome the wall, but that's is much more rare.

incidentally, in endurance events, eg. biking, there are various food/fluid that one can take, which will give a sudden burst of energy. i use them for badminton. if i eat a powerbar just before a match, i usually feel much more awake and full of energy. a powergel or two after a 4+ hours badminton session also revive me. has anyone tried that?

viver
04-12-2001, 12:39 AM
Kwun,
You are right about hitting the wall when you feel weak, hard to breath, your surroundings are becoming darker, etc., but if you focus and force yourself you can still go! Like in the article in your link, athletes always test their limit and never afraid to go over it. The players I have the chance to meet always mentioned that. For them training 8 to 10 hrs/day was normal.