At practicly any badminton club there is always one court that the good people play. Even though I am not quite good as them, but i play with them. My double partner always complain that we are not at their levels and we shouldn't play with them. But I disagree. The exact words he said was "They are too good we wont learn anything from them. You dont learn from getting hammered and running around." He continued "It's better to play at the average courts, you have more time to think. Thus, better shot placement. You learn better that way." My partner ends up looking for another partner to play in the average and less challenged courts. Everyday i get hammered by the good people; mostly As and Bs. I am a C+ player.

My philosoply is to lose to better people then to win someone who is less experienced then you are. To me, I learn better that way.

Agree or disagree, and what is your philosophy?

Who likes to lose you ask? well, i do! :)

I think you learn the most (not to mention having the most fun) when the skill level between you and your opponent is relatively small. When you are having a close game, you'll be forced to pull every move from your arsenal of strokes in order to defeat your opponent.

From your description of things, it seems like there is quite a big difference between your skill level and that of your opponent. In this case, you'll be getting a more satisfying game than if you were to play against some newbie, and you would have to work a lot harder in that game. But I don't think you can learn too much by playing with these guys. Knowing your limits, they will most likely go easy on you, and can probably tire you out with just the clear and the drop alone. You almost know what they are going to do to you next, and yet you wouldn't be able to get that coming shot. And if they were to smash, you know you won't have a chance because you wouldn't even be able to see the shuttle.

-Rick

i think you and your partner are both correct. ie. given that you know how to learn from it, i think you can improve by playing with anybody. so i am going to add:

bad = better

if you play with someone worse than you. you have all the time to practice what you normally cannot on a tough even level game. you can try to be more relax, try to get to all shuttle early and try to do that footwork that you have been drilling all these time, the luxury of time give you all the opportunity to practice in a game situation.

i have been playing singles against Janet for the past couple of years. my singles isn't very good, but at a higher level than her. when i play with her, i try to do everything correctly, all footwork, etc. honestly, i still cannot do it. and i must screw up even worse when i play against someone better than her.

i was playing some doubles against these few beginners the other day. they can hit and return, but not very refined. it was ok, they are friendly and nice ppl. we joke around, and i used the opportunity to practice some alternative ways to return a service. now my service has more variations.

same = better

after you've practiced your shots with the beginners, this is when you can really try to use it. can you pull of the same shots again? can you do that super fast footwork that you have been drilling?

i personally find playing with ppl the same level as me quite beneficial. but only when there are different players to play with. if i have to play with the same set of folks, it get less interesting because the shots are more predictable. try different partners, try different opponents. the most interesting opponents are the ones who are really smart. the ones who have a variety of shots and isn't afraid to use them. playing against those always keep you on your toes and keep blood flowing to your brain.

good = better

some ppl i know are like you, they like to play the best all the time. i think it is true that you learn from teh better players. you learn to anticipate the harder smash, the even more variations and decption of shots, the ultra-fast movement and anticipation on the other end of the court. the experience you get from playing these players enables you to be prepared for all tough situations.

and sometimes, experience counts....

I recently joined one of the best local clubs in NY (NYCB). I started to like it a lot just like kwun metioned above: the manager of the club pair me up with different groups with different lvl skills, and let me have a little bit "taste" of everything.

1. 20% of the time, I will play with a group that the rest 3 are quite better than me. Usually, i will team up with the #1 player, against #2 and #3. Of course, I could be the easy target to get attacked, but I also enjoy most of the games as it's a mental challenge to force me to get better. Also, it's good to learn a lesson, and later on summerize on what I need to improve.

2. 20% of the time, I will play with a weak group, with the rest 3 are kinda below my lvl. This kinda game, I either freely attempt new strokes / footwork, or learn how to cover for my partner effectively. Sometimes, I need to manage to cover 75% of the court, which add a little bit spicy in the relatively easy game.

2. 60% of the time, I will play with/against ppl with similar skill lvl. Those games are usually tight, and every single point counts. A lot of see saw action, and very often going into deuce. This is the "test field" to see whether I really masterize the new strokes or really learned my lesson from previous defeat.

agree fully with kwun... you can improve by playing with anybody.... personally though, i like playing against people that can own me beyond compare... however, i limit my games with those people, because i doubt they want to spend all their time owning me...

I agree with all the inputs you people have given.

Badminton is meant to be a sport and it's supposed to be fun doesn't matter who the opponent is. I quit playing badminton since highschool, 7 years ago, and i got back playing since past summer. I was honored the most improved player in the team. Unfortunately not MVP. The people i am currently playing with are coaches from varies highschool, friends from whom i know since highschool and veterans at the gym. These are the same people seven years ago I thought were badminton gods. Now i have the privilege to play with them. How cool is that? Like Truam said, sometimes they tire me by chears and drops but I enjoy it, I use it to my advantage, to work on my staminia, it forces me to play harder, better shot placement also to play smarter. It's a win win situation playing with them. They use me as a tool to practice their shots, and I use them to practice mine. "Hammered" was a bit harsh of a word. Sometimes i win but most of the time i lose. My games with them are usually long and close. All of them are willing to give me help. They tell what I am good at and advice me with what i need to work on.

I can't do that with lower level player. When i am playing with lower level skill player, I tend to move slower and sometimes not moving at all. Lazy is the word. No i am not that a**hole in the court.

My brother told me the same thing as well everytime I ask him whether he'd like to challenge the really kick @$$ dudes on the adjacent court, telling me that if the opponent is overwhelmingly strong, then you'll end up learning nothing much if any because you will be too busy chasing the shuttle all over the court, IF they ever play to their full capability.

So what is there to gain?

1. Placement - where you can hit when in specific situations eg when you are under pressure, when you are out of position and especially when you are attacking. With these people, the % of areas for attacking seemed to shrink by 1/3 (quoting from kwun's comment on Faisal's game against an ex-national). Thus, you need to play smart.

2. Nerves - imagine facing a guy in doubles who is keen on attacking and every one of your low serves. You try to flick to trick, try to hit to the tramlines, try to serve so low and yet they hit everything back at you, no problems.

3. Stamina/Positioning - they make you run all over the court, you try all sorts of strokes to make them run all over the court. In the end, you're ready to collapse, they are ready for the next game. (Quoting again...) The court seemed to have grown 3x in size.

IMHO, I think these are the only all the significant things we are capable of learning when playing against supremely superior opponents because #1 can be observed, #2 will always be used and #3 is especially true. Skill-wise, I don't really think we can improve much because there will be a greater concern to 'save' the point rather than to play beautifully.

the only advantage that i see of a C player playing a A or higher player is:

1. if A player is toying with you, u improve your stamina from all the running.
2. if A player is serious, u can adjust your eyes to 150+ mph smashes & drives that
will make the 80 mph smashes easier to retrieve when the time come u play B and C players.

ie. you wouldn't be learning much unless the A player tells you what to improve after your game.

Actually you will LEARN LESS from playing with very good players (assuming you are C and below) because u don't know the basic and start copying the advance players deceptive shots and special footworks, therefore giving you a bad start with bad habits if you want to become a better player.

Another problem I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that if you were getting run down by an advanced player, then most of your shots will probably end up as desparate shots whose only purpose is to get over the net. (ie. no consideration on placement or technique would ever be given). This would be fine if all you want to practice is footwork and build on your stamina. As far as other aspects of the game are concerned, however, I don't think you would be learning too much.

-Rick

addendum (got time out on edit)

Actually you will LEARN LESS from playing with very good players (assuming you are C and below) because u don't know the basic and start copying the advance players deceptive shots and special footworks, therefore giving you a bad start with bad habits if you want to become a better player. As in point #1, i often tune up my trick and difficult shots when i'm against a 2 level lower players. Not because i'm cocky because i want to maximum my court time per round. No fun just burying the shuttles in 2 -3 shot rallies. However, that's what the C and lower players read and try to pick up from very good players, all the non-basic moves if he/she able to watch while he/she running all over the place to retrieve the shuttle. Excuse my point blank answer but that's how i see it from my angle.

Better to watch advance players playing than playing with advance players. When ur pantings and chasing the shuttle, u can only see the surface (gross movement) of the techniques from advance players. No way u can see how advance players make subtle preparation in footwork and stroke while one is panting & chasing around the court.

the above discussion is for advance player(s) on one side and C or lower player(s) on the another side. When pairing C or lower with A player, A player won't play his/her best. Too dangerous. (unless something is on the line for that game/match OR if both partner have played alot together and know who,when and where to hit and move around the court)

BTW, i'm NOT an A player.

I doubt playing more advanced player then you are will create bad habits. However, playing with more experieced player will force you to play better. Pratice more and beat them at their games.

When I started playing again 8 months ago with the same partner i have played with in highschool (the same guy that dumped me for another partner), i noticed there was a big gap between me and my opponents and those players at my gym. I started practicing my shots all over again. Once i got better, i started playing with the big boys. Now my game is better than my former partner, those people who have beaten me, and those who have been playing at my gym for years. My game have improved tremendously and the people i was playing against few months before, come up to me and tell me so. Without playing with better people i dont think i get to the point where i am now.

Originally posted by shawntn
I doubt playing more advanced player then you are will create bad habits. However, playing with more experieced player will force you to play better. Pratice more and beat them at their games.

When I started playing again 8 months ago with the same partner i have played with in highschool (the same guy that dumped me for another partner), i noticed there was a big gap between me and my opponents and those players at my gym. I started practicing my shots all over again. Once i got better, i started playing with the big boys. Now my game is better than my former partner, those people who have beaten me, and those who have been playing at my gym for years. My game have improved tremendously and the people i was playing against few months before, come up to me and tell me so. Without playing with better people i dont think i get to the point where i am now.

that wasnt my point.
I didnt say dont play with advance players.
The point is C and lower dont learn much from those games.
Playing with advance player is a good way to gauge where u stand.
Like take taking temperature of your flu. You dont get better from it but u know what to do to improve. (ie a mild flu or a severe flu)
You said it yourself u actually learn from doing more practice, and not explicitly from playing with advance players.

continue...

Badminton is more mentally than physically. Yes, watching better people play will mentally get your game better. But playing with them is even better. Ofcourse basic footwork is a must have to play with a more advanced player. And it is the key to advance to another level. The people i play with are friendly people they are willing to help if ask. 90% of the time, a higher level player will not play to their full potential when playing with a lower skill player. Agree? When was the last time you play to your full potential with a lower level player? I use this opportunity to play long rallies. Thus, it helps my game.

Originally posted by cooler
that wasnt my point.
I didnt say dont play with advance players.
The point is C and lower dont learn much from those games.
Playing with advance player is a good way to gauge where u stand.
Like take taking temperature of your flu. You dont get better from it but u know what to do to improve. (ie a mild flu or a severe flu)
You said it yourself u actually learn from doing more practice, and not explicitly from playing with advance players.


No, i get your point. i didn't say not to play with advance players. I "do" think C player could learn alot from those games.

Hi all,

after reading the thread, I feel one thing that haven't been mention is the place and the environment the people are.

I have played in high school and in tournaments against different levels of players and I noticed it depends on the people I play some. Some of them will give advice or tell me what I did wrong and then there are other who just there to play and win. I was there for their toying pleasure. Like Cooler wrote, it was either a short rally or I was having a hard time to keep up with clears, drops, and the getting back to my position and they were there to maximize their time on the court.

it seems like in your position, the people there are willing to give advise and improve your techniques. That is cool.

Originally posted by BadFan_OC
Hi all,

after reading the thread, I feel one thing that haven't been mention is the place and the environment the people are.

I have played in high school and in tournaments against different levels of players and I noticed it depends on the people I play some. Some of them will give advice or tell me what I did wrong and then there are other who just there to play and win. I was there for their toying pleasure. Like Cooler wrote, it was either a short rally or I was having a hard time to keep up with clears, drops, and the getting back to my position and they were there to maximize their time on the court.

it seems like in your position, the people there are willing to give advise and improve your techniques. That is cool.

if they don't give advice, you can simply think about their tactics if you can remember the game... if they are much better than you, most likely you can watch out for things other than their strokes... by analysing the shots of hit and thinking about how you lose, you can learn a lot by playing better players....

Originally posted by shawntn
continue...

Badminton is more mentally than physically. Yes, watching better people play will mentally get your game better. But playing with them is even better. Ofcourse basic footwork is a must have to play with a more advanced player. And it is the key to advance to another level. The people i play with are friendly people they are willing to help if ask. 90% of the time, a higher level player will not play to their full potential when playing with a lower skill player. Agree? When was the last time you play to your full potential with a lower level player? I use this opportunity to play long rallies. Thus, it helps my game.

I've said all that already.:o
As in point #1, i often tune up my trick and difficult shots when i'm against a 2 level lower players. Not because i'm cocky because i want to maximum my court time per round. No fun just burying the shuttles in 2 -3 shot rallies.

ie. you wouldn't be learning much unless the A player tells you what to improve after your game.

Originally posted by shawntn
No, i get your point. i didn't say not to play with advance players. I "do" think C player could learn alot from those games.

yes, only if (with lot of conditions)

they lower their pace and/or
they tell u what u to improve on afterward and/or
they invite u back to play with them

Originally posted by Nanashi
if they don't give advice, you can simply think about their tactics if you can remember the game... if they are much better than you, most likely you can watch out for things other than their strokes... by analysing the shots of hit and thinking about how you lose, you can learn a lot by playing better players....

why not:

watch pros on tapes instead, u can rewind and rewind and slow mo in every detail.
I doubt a newbie can analyze the footwork and stroke details in a live action situation. Too fast and too much info to absorb even for me in live action condition.

you can learn ALOT from more practising with better players than playing with them.
If they stop and tell u advices, that's like getting coached, it wasn't u getting better because of playing the actual game. Coaching versus playing with advance players are quite different things.

ditto Cooler,

its is easier to analyze a taped games , rewind, watch, slo mo, rewind, watch again than trying to remember and analyze during a game.

Originally posted by shawntn
continue...

Badminton is more mentally than physically. Yes, watching better people play will mentally get your game better. But playing with them is even better. Ofcourse basic footwork is a must have to play with a more advanced player. And it is the key to advance to another level. The people i play with are friendly people they are willing to help if ask. 90% of the time, a higher level player will not play to their full potential when playing with a lower skill player. Agree? When was the last time you play to your full potential with a lower level player? I use this opportunity to play long rallies. Thus, it helps my game.

one major point i forgot to bring up.
If your opponent advance player(s) have to lower the pace, tempo, water down his/her skills just to extend the rallies for you, ARE YOU REALLY playing with advance player(s) and learning from their super skills or it's just a figurative speech saying u just played with some advance players?? How is that different from playing some team at comparable level as you? (assuming just game plays, no coaching)

An analogy would be like you were given an opportunity to drive a F1 formula Indy race car around the track but with the speed governor set at 20mph for all race drivers. Do u go around saying you are closer to driving like a pro race driver after that experience or just gained a bragging right that you have drove in the Indy 500 race ?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by cooler
one major point i forgot to bring up.
If your opponent advance player(s) have to lower the pace, tempo, water down his/her skills just to extend the rallies for you, ARE YOU REALLY playing with advance player(s) and learning from their super skills or it's just a figurative speech saying u just played with some advance players?? How is that different from playing some team at comparable level as you? (assuming just game plays, no coaching)

An analogy would be like you were given an opportunity to drive a F1 formula Indy race car around the track but with the speed governor set at 20mph for all race drivers. Do u go around saying you are closer to driving like a pro race driver after that experience or just gained a bragging right that you have drove in the Indy 500 race ?:rolleyes:

First of all, I am not a pro or even close to be a pro. second, I dont brag. Third, playing with better player improves my game. If you think I play with better player to say that i am a good player that's absolutely wrong. I love the game and i do whatever it takes to improve my game.

An analogy you have given is false. There is no absolute way you can compare an Indy race to badminton. In badminton, the game could be fast and/or slow depending on strategies of the game. You cannot predict what the next shot would be unless you are very experieced, you have play with your opponent over the course of years and you know the style of your opponent. Given that, playing against better player or any player is not "govern." I drive faster than 20mph everyday, matter of fact i drive double that speed. For sure, i dont drive like that in an Indy 500. :)

A more advance player would have more experience in a game that include more refined shots, better strategy and overal better game. And i picked up alot of it by playing with them.

Originally posted by BadFan_OC
ditto Cooler,

its is easier to analyze a taped games , rewind, watch, slo mo, rewind, watch again than trying to remember and analyze during a game.

Watching taped games is not the same as playing. Though, watching pro games overall improves your strategy. Yes i do have collections of badminton videos and i watch them when ever i have time.

Do you share your videos on emule?


I am d/l videos from the servers there but it takes a long time. I do have a few video. I got the list of videos from the video thread here.

here is a thing that you cannot learn from playing with equal or lower caliber player. and you don't even need the higher caliber to tell you anything.

janet once played a game of singles against this other girl. her opponent is clearly more skillful than her and got to the birdie much faster and her return are also higher quality and faster.

at the end of the game, janet got off the court and told me, "she is so fast i was nervous and panicked."

to get over that barrier, i am afraid but there just isn't that much one can do but play more better players, get used to the pace and shot quality, then your anticipation will better and your calmness will increase.

that's one thing that you can only learn from teh better...

I think players who's been around are what they called "seasoned";). Experience counts in almost everything in life. As for me, I would challenge advance players just to see how far I can push. The real learning comes from observation and instruction followed through with application. Playing with lower level players provides opportunity for refining of shots. However, I think I would learn most by playing competitive games with equal or slightly better peers (who would have little incentive to hold back), getting killed fast by far advanced players won't teach me anything except fear. That's why one gain more by getting coached by Pros than playing with the Pros.


One can only learn so much and pick up information at a certain stage w/o guidance. As we get more proficient, we are able to observe more aspects of the game through reflection of experience. So, a newbie can't gain as much useful information as an intermediate (or an intermediate as much as an advanced player for that matter) from watching the same game. The more we progress, the more we learn what to watch for.

Originally posted by cooler
one major point i forgot to bring up.
If your opponent advance player(s) have to lower the pace, tempo, water down his/her skills just to extend the rallies for you, ARE YOU REALLY playing with advance player(s) and learning from their super skills

If the advanced players continue to defend as well as they can, you still get to experience (and hopefully learn from) the shuttle coming back all the time, and your opponents not giving you points by making mistakes.

At lower levels games are often lost, not won. Higher up, you have to actively win the game, and that means thinking your way past the opponent.

Always try to challenge better players. Not many people realize this, but when you're paying attention while you're playing them, you'd improve a lot more than you realize

Originally posted by JChen99
Always try to challenge better players. Not many people realize this, but when you're paying attention while you're playing them, you'd improve a lot more than you realize

some of you forgot the intent of the original post. The question was would we learn from playing with players that are overwhelmingly better than us, like 2 level or more difference. I dont disagree playing with players 0.5 to 1 level better where there is a rally:rolleyes: Anytime an advance player has to lower his/her level to match your is not helping himself(the better player point of view). I often play crappy with 2 or more lvl lower players because it is not natural for me to reduce my strokes and movement, i would pickup bad habit myself because those shots or movements aren't use in my regular games. There is a point where i have enough 'warm up and practice' in a night before i need to work at my regular pace.

shawntn said: My double partner always complain that we are not at their levels and we shouldn't play with them. But I disagree. The exact words he said was "They are too good we wont learn anything from them. You dont learn from getting hammered and running around."

Originally posted by JChen99
Always try to challenge better players. Not many people realize this, but when you're paying attention while you're playing them, you'd improve a lot more than you realize

one will play better with more attention, with good or bad players

Originally posted by Neil Nicholls
If the advanced players continue to defend as well as they can, you still get to experience (and hopefully learn from) the shuttle coming back all the time, and your opponents not giving you points by making mistakes.

At lower levels games are often lost, not won. Higher up, you have to actively win the game, and that means thinking your way past the opponent.

that's only when advance players lower his standard so he will return the shuttle back to u in a nice fashion to extend a rally.

and that means thinking your way past the opponent.
easy said then done. Try out think your opponents when he/she/they shorten the rallies to 2 to 3 shots or you and your partner scrambling your shots bumping each other.

Enjoyed reading the many opnions on this subject. So back to the original question:

Originally posted by shawntn
... My philosoply is to lose to better people then to win someone who is less experienced then you are. To me, I learn better that way.

Agree or disagree, and what is your philosophy?

Who likes to lose you ask? well, i do! :)

I am of the opinion that in order to improve, one has to play with better players. The key is improvement. If after playing with better players and you are not improving, you are wasting their time and yours. Perhaps getting a coach would be more prudent. If, however, you are improving, I don't see any reason of not continuing playing with the better players. In Shawn's case, however, he has the good opportunity that the better players are giving pointers too. Watching better players play is good to give you ideas, and by practicing and doing what you have watched will hopefully help you improve.

I have to respectfully disagree that playing with lesser skill players will improve your play. There is at least one missing ingredient: pace of the game. Playing with lesser skill players would certainly allow you to practice on certain shots but when you play with equal or better players, there might not be that same opportunity available. For example, a lesser skill player might give you a high shot, just slightly in front of you while you are standing, you will do your practice drop shot. However, playing with equal or better players, such opportunity might be rare. You will be constantly moving. Thus, I don't find it useful in improving my shots or play by playing lesser skill players. To improve, I much rather do drills with equal or better players. The speed of the shuttle going back and forth is very different than drilling with lesser skill players. The execution (ie hitting the shuttle) is also different. Having said that, I do play with lesser skill players, so that they can also improve and encourage them to stick with the game longer. My thought is that, the more skill players around to play against, there would be more variety. Besides, no one is getting younger and surely don't want to see this great sport to die.

Cheers. :)

After all these debates, I think the key point is "how much better".

Personally, I have a "scale" in my mind, as long as this player is in my acceptable "range", I don't mind to play with him/her, regardless I am on the higher or lower end. Either way, I can enjoy the game, while learnig/trying something.

However, if he/she is far beyond the range (especially much better), I don't see the point to "NOT enjoy" the game for both sides. If he/she is really nice, I would rather ask for hints off court, rather than making a game to be meaningless for both sides.

as everybody have different interpretation of 'better players', i think i should summarize this: there is a diminishing return or benefit from playing with players of higher and higher caliber. Many beginners think the opposite, some of them think that playing against better players help, so playing more advance players would help even more. There is no black and white cut off point for degree lvl of players. However, i see too many times beginners anxious to play with the best in the club because they think they will learn the most from them.

I may come across as anti beginners but it's not. The subject was could a beginner (a nail) learn from playing with players that are doing all the hammering.

well a m8 of me was exactly even good as me, after that i went to highschool and needed to train somewhere else in the week so we could only play in the weekends, Where i train now there are VERY GOOD players in my vieuw. And It looks like i'm getting a little bit better as him. So it's not bad to play very good players, but i think you have to play your own skill players too, and when you have very long rallies it's cool to win the point.

Originally posted by shawntn
........Everyday i get hammered by the good people; mostly As and Bs. I am a C+ player.
What you learn when being hammered is that there are many deficiencies in your game. So which one do you concentrate on first for improvement?

If you can get into rallies, then you might be able to see certain areas of your game weaker than others and concentrate on these ones first. If you cannot get into rallies in the first place, your serve (and court coverage after serve) and return of serve are your weaknesses.....;)

(this is referring to doubles and singles);)

I think you guys put too much amphrasis on the word "hammer." Sorry if i misleading anyone. If i coudn't return or get the rallies going, i wouldn't still be playing there. There is certainly no point of playing when one can't return a serve or receive a serve. My partner found another partner to play on the less challenging courts because, simply, he can't handle playing with those guys and he is not improving by playing them. He's right on his part of the bargain. I dont blame him for it. He improves by playing with someone who is at the same or even less experience player then he is.

The reason i am still there because I improve playing with those guys. I like the challenge. i have guns and battle plans for it. There were a lot of close games. Like i said before, i win some and i loose some. Part of the game. But what's you can learn from it, to me, is what matters.

There were a lot of close games. Like i said before, i win some and i loose some. Part of the game. But what's you can learn from it, to me, is what matters.

nice of you clarifying your point at page four.

close games and winning some games do not consider being hammered. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by cooler
There were a lot of close games. Like i said before, i win some and i loose some. Part of the game. But what's you can learn from it, to me, is what matters.

nice of you clarifying your point at page four.

close games and winning some games do not consider being hammered. :rolleyes:

fact, I was thinking too, they were way out of good

Originally posted by shawntn
There were a lot of close games. Like i said before, i win some and i loose some. Part of the game. But what's you can learn from it, to me, is what matters.

I am confused, too.

If most of the games are close, then I can only think either u r much better than C, or those players are not A or even B.

Unless the match up is like, u team up with a super A, and the other sides are like Bs, and your partner is good and experienced enough to cover more area while utlizing ur skill and ability.

Originally posted by LazyBuddy
I am confused, too.

If most of the games are close, then I can only think either u r much better than C, or those players are not A or even B.

Unless the match up is like, u team up with a super A, and the other sides are like Bs, and your partner is good and experienced enough to cover more area while utlizing ur skill and ability.



Lets put it this way. They would win easily if they were to play to their full potential. This is what going in my former partner's head- majority are beyond our level and we will not win if we play. His inconfidence or maybe his interpretation of gaining experience is to play someone who is less challenging. To me, it's difference. I undertand practically all good or advanced players are willing to help those who needed and will not, in most cases, play to their full potential. For those reasons, I take that opportunity to play with them. Ofcourse they will not give up their games to someone who is less worthy. The better wins. I dont care if i loose or win. If i lose, that means i need to learn from it. If i win, that means I had a good game or they didn't play to their potential. What important is how hard I play. The attitude i bring to the court is to learn and play my best. I am fortunate to play with those people who are willing to help. If you ask for help you will get help. In courts and off courts. Most of the time I partnered with someone is better then I am. I help if asks (hopefully I teach the right technique).

Originally posted by shawntn
They would win easily if they were to play to their full potential.

I am more confused with ur intention then. :D

If the advanced player don't play with their full potential (or even not anywhere close to that lvl), then, I would rather play with players within "reachable gap", but have to put on a fight to earn their victory. This way, both side should be able to enjoy some games.

For my own cases, I never bothered to play the ones who are/were local regional champions. Why force them to "lower their standard" and "waste" their time? I mean, if they are nice enough to spend time with me, I would rather to do that off court (or drills, etc). If they kept wasting their effort with me on court, I will feel bad for not let THEM having good and exciting games.

I would rank myself as a C lvl player as well, therefore, I don't mind charllenge any B lvl ones. However, if someone clearly could trash me in 2 min, why bother to ask him with 50% effort just to give me several points?

I don't know ur cases very clearly, but if u r sure both sides are really enjoying the progress, fine and good luck. If u did not think about what I metioned above before, maybe u should re-consider it sometimes...

shawntn, if A players have to lower their skill level to have an even game with you and your partner, than they aren't playing with you but rather they are training for you.

Second point is how much difference of playing B players versus playing an A player that lowered himself to a B player?

Thirdly, come times in real competition (tournaments), you will be at a disadvantage because you won't be playing against the A players and yet you hardly know the style of your real competiton ( C and B players) because you rarely deal with them before. In real competiton, the players around your level wont be as forgiving as your A players in practice games and the whole experience would be different.

Originally posted by cooler
shawntn, if A players have to lower their skill level to have an even game with you and your partner, than they aren't playing with you but rather they are training for you.



I agree with this.

Competitive games are training (assume intensive) are different. For example, u might not have a chance to "experience" how to frustrate ur opponents, as they are just way too good to be pushed against the wall.

It's nice that some good players willing to sacrify their own time to help others. However, if you want to real intensive feeling of a game, go with the ones within "strike distance".

From my experience, playing against high level opponents brings more dynamics into the game. I learnt a lot to execute the shots with much faster pace. This is because
1) I have to raise my pace to cope with high level player to get a decent fight. I normally go all out without worrying running out of gas later in the game. This is because I am sure I would lose against someone 2 levels above me. So, I normally put up a decent fight at the beginning of the match and learnt the game at a different level. Then I would be “hammered” towards end of game after running out of gas. Sometimes I do 7 points game with someone so good just to cut the crap out at the end. I learnt a lot this way.
2) Against equally or slightly better opponent, I would spread my energy evenly and the pace would be slower. Same as my opponent, so we normally settled into a slower pace. This is due to both of us tried to win the match. With similar skill, you are set to a very long game regardless how many points you play with current rule.