Most of us are die-hard fans of badminton and that's one reason why we are engaged for so long in this Forum. There were a number of posts in the past on our grievances about the poor state of badminton today, the lack of TV and other media coverage on the sport, especially in the West, and what our wish-list for badminton is like.

Why not we, through BF and kwun, present our views to the IBF Council to let them know how interested and involved we are to ensure that badminton maintains a high profile and how it can be further improved internationally.

I think we can think of two broad groups of viewpoints:

1) Current Weaknesses/Deficiencies/Shortcomings
2) Suggestions for improvement/Wish List.

Why don't as many BFers express their feelings here under the above categories and then kwun can collate the results and write officially to the IBF. We want to tell them that we are serious in wanting to see the world body move forward to promote badminton to the highest level possible.

Will you please contribute by writing a line or two? Please try.

Loh, i will help out as much as i can. here are some inputs.

i think IBF will want to hear more on point 2) than 1). i think they are fully aware of the lack of popularity of badminton. that's why they came up with the various ways to "improve" badminton, including the ill-fated 5x7 experiment. but there are many good things that i see came out of it. i like the tournament organization and presentation better. with the colored carpet, the dimmed light. i also like players' name on jersey. these aren't very big changes and do not change the fundamental quality of the game, but give a better presentation and impression for non-badminton viewers.

however, such is not enough, there gotta be other things that IBF can do. i will put on my thinking cap and think hard about it. i think everybody else should as well because we are part of one big community and family, the family of badminton fans.

one thing that i want to point out is that our help to IBF would be unique. we have ppl from all over the world, from all persective of badminton. i believe our diverse views and suggestions will be valuable to IBF and hopefully badminton will benefit as a whole.

kwun

I'm happy that you are in broad agreement and felt the same that we need to do something, especially that our views are from a varied spectrum of worldwide badminton fans.

I also agree that the IBF will be interested to hear our views on how we can help them improve (Cat 2). Therefore the views on Category 1 on Weaknesses can help us identify them and give us ideas as to how to overcome them and come up with solutions.

Our final letter to the IBF should only contain recommendations/suggestions for improvement.

Get Tom Cruise to make a movie about badminton...

is there a time frame to collect and compose this letter to IBF?

Originally posted by cooler
is there a time frame to collect and compose this letter to IBF?
Good question, Cooler.

I was thinking about two weeks to collect and one week to compose. This is so as not to lose momentum and BFers have to seriously allocate some time to thinking about the subject and posting their ideas without further delay.

I can help in drafting the final letter, if needed.

Joking aside..

Actually much effort has been wasted before, badminton is considered a minority sport in the Western society. It has also been deemed unsuitable for television.

IBF have already experimented with changing the scoring system, to make it more "exciting" to watch. We all know how that ended up.

Some European satellite channels have recently started to show a little. I believe Jonas Rasmussen did some commentary for it. This is in part because there are so many digital television channels out there now, and only so much programmes to fill it up, hence why badminton gets a rare opportunity to show it's stuff. I'm sure if there is a demand then there will be a supply.

It's not terribly hard to put badminton on TV. IBF could throw all of their resources into it, they could buy and broadcast their own satellite channel, but the question is who would watch it?

Apart from fanatics, and the odd bored couch potatoe that is.

The question I want answered is why do people not like watching badminton on TV?

I used to think badminton was non existing or invisible in the newspapers. But I find that I just have to look very hard. You know....the small hastily written, unformatted and often unoticed stories hidden somewhere between the pages you don't read, like the adverts and the horse racing?

Loh - what is it that you want to do? (i) make badminton more popular (ii) have more badminton coverage on TV and in media?

If we want to make it more popular, then we have to look at the whole package of everything in the game, including the players and remarket them, at the risk of changing the game as we know it.

As far (ii), soon, we will have access to ultra high bandwidth, which would enable on-demand streaming and live videos from the Internet.... and at a fraction of the cost of TV broadcasting. But I couldn't see IBF releasing their entire back catalogue of videos...

If you look back 10 or more years ago, the situation has improved a lot, mainly because of the take up of the Internet. In that period, if you wanted to check the results of the Japan Open in UK, how would/could you have done it?

The game seems to be quite healthy at the moment, with decent audience attendances at major tournaments, up and rising stars, constant (minor) improvements in equipment technology, good coverage in Asia and even badminton celebrities. Surely you'd be greedy to want more?

(Off Topic)
Sometimes you have to accept that some things are meant to be, whilst others aren't. Look at the Hong Kong comedian actor Stephen Chow, Chow Sing Chi. He is the most talented comedic actor I have ever seen, any Chinese person can tell you that he is a big celebrity throughout Asia and is cult status around the world. However, why can he not break into the Hollywood and the US market. His last film, Shaolin Soccer was made with a western audience in mind, capitalising on the western fixation on soccer/football. It was a flop in the states... Now compare with Bruce Lee...and to a lesser extent Jacky Chan. The Kung Fu films have always done better than the comedy films, like Tennis is to Badminton.

If you are not one to give into fate, then there is always perseverance and wishful thinking :p

Great stuff, Wizbit,

You have identified some shortcomings. Assuming you are not too happy with the state of badminton as both a player and spectator, in which areas would you like to see improvement? Practical solutions which you think the IBF can adopt will obviously carry more weight.

If possible:

1. To have IBF to set up scholarship(s) for high school and college students in order to attract more young people to participate badminton. Nowaday, Young people tend to like soccer, football, basketball, and hockey the most because sometimes you see they can make some when entering college or when they are young. So, I think finding out some ways to get some young people is really important.

2. To Have badminton stars to perform some Badminton Demostration/Shows around the world in major cities. So, there will be more people understanding that badminton isn't all about plastic birds, $5 rackets pair, and backyard sport. These events can be considered as a medium size parties, with free admissions will be even better.

Jeff

The biggest hurdle that baddy has to overcome is America's infatuation with power and brawn. NBA, NFL, and NHL are all blatant examples of this. Speed, agility, technique, finesse, and altheletism are only secondary elements that adds to the appeal of the sport. At the end of the day, it is the physical rawness that continues to attract the general public day after day.

As fast and exciting as badminton is, the sport is just too gentlemanly for spectators. Even if that 300km/h smash hits the opposing player, very little damage (if any) would be inflicted. The shuttle is too light and decelerates far too quickly to make it potentially harmful.

Compare badminton to our closest popular cousin, tennis, the power and brawn in our sport is just pitiful. The sport just doesn't have enough edge to attract the average power-hungry viewer.

Originally posted by Wizbit
(Off Topic)
Look at the Hong Kong comedian actor Stephen Chow, Chow Sing Chi. He is the most talented comedic actor I have ever seen, any Chinese person can tell you that he is a big celebrity throughout Asia and is cult status around the world. However, why can he not break into the Hollywood and the US market. His last film, Shaolin Soccer was made with a western audience in mind, capitalising on the western fixation on soccer/football. It was a flop in the states... Now compare with Bruce Lee...and to a lesser extent Jacky Chan. The Kung Fu films have always done better than the comedy films, like Tennis is to Badminton.


IMO, Stephen Chow's flop in America is partially due to the contract / distribution rights entanglements he had with Miramax. Although Stephen Chow made a deal with Miramax to release Shaolin Soccer here in America, he made the mistake of signing his future deals with another studio (forgot which one). Essentially, had Miramax gone ahead with the promotion and release of Shaolin Soccer, they would only be stuck with the task (and the bill) of promoting a top Asian star in America. But since Stephen had already signed his future deals with another studio, there would be no financial benefit to Miramax in making Stephen Chow popular. As a result, they cancelled the theatrical release, and just came up with a wimpy DVD/VHS release instead.

-Rick

I think the IBF needs to consider advertising more in non traditional badminton countries such as the US, Europe, Australia etc and by the way Africa isn't the ideal continent to expand the game from. The IBF should treat the sport of badminton more as a commodity, or product and a fully fledged business. Advertising is crucial to promote not only the sport but also to change the perception of the game ie it's not a wussy sport but one that requires speed, agility and power. The IBF may have long term strategic goals but needs to implement short term goals. They need to be able to promote a product which will attractive to sponsors and then it will be shown on tv. For example, tennis used to be an amateur sport 30 or 40 years ago and kind of professional in a way but not quite there. Look at it now, it's so big.

Kids in Australia don't play badminton because

1) they have misconception that badminton is easy and wussy
2) there is absolutely no advertising in any capacity to promote the game at all
3) the sport is competing with other sports eg tennis, even lawnbowls (btw there is about 500 000 registered lawnbowlers in Australia alone and that's why their funding is bigger and badminton is stacks more interesting. certainly this puts badminton to shame as we only have 5500 registered players.
4) you can't have a career in badminton because all your effort is for nothing. no scholarships, no career path. the game is only played for fun. you get paid to play in tennis even if you're not a Hewitt or an Agassi
5) the mentality of the board here is that badminton should only focus on the players currently and try to milk the current players of as much as they can suck from t rather than trying to expand to the next generation of young players.

I think if the IBF gets their act together and aggressively pursues the sport in a business like manner then badminton will improve. Funding is an issue but you have to work with your constraints and work smarter with the funding. If they can persuade kids to play it rather than other sports then badminton will have a better future.

Another consideration is the fact that a badminton match can be as quick as 10minutes. you won't show that on tv because it's hopeless. maybe there needs to be some extra changes to the game to extend the match eg perhaps each player can have 3 x 1 minute timeouts per set which they can use or make it best of 5 sets first to 11 or change the setting to make it first to 5 and at 4 all, you have to win by 2 points. Something needs to be done. Even crap tennis players play for at least an 40minutes before they lose. The rules need to be tweaked.

Also the IBF should perhaps look at other sports and how they have changed for tv eg NFL (although this is a team game but the same concepts do apply when you look at badminton as a business). In NFL they use digital cameras so that they can stop the play and rotate the angle 360 degrees. This would be fabulous for badminton but it is expensive. However, you have to look at the little things that would add value to sponsors and television broadcast.

Another point is that some of the rules in badminton is antiquated or not defined well enough. I remember watching the 2001 Thomas cup match. i think it was one of the doubles and one of guys put a fist up at the opposition and shouted in exhilaration after completing a successful match. Guess what happened to him? he got warned by the umpire. That is way out of date. Look at tennis and how far that has progressed. the players in tennis spit dummies all the time and not all are given warnings. another one is the time wasting rule which the umpire is given discretion to use. The rule should be defined further so that you should be given 30 seconds to serve a shuttle or whatever the time may be.

Last but not least, the IBF should use of its trump cards when trying to promote badminton. Everyone of all ages and sizes can play. Not many active sports can promote this. Even as a professional you don't need to be 6 foot to play. this can't be said for tennis because the bigger you are the more powerful you become and power is useful in tennis. In badminton, power isn't everything if you can't recover from a smash for example.

i've got one last suggestion. Maybe it's time for the IBF to use consultants to help them out. Eg KPMG or PwC to do a report for them on how to bring badminton to the next level. If they want to bring it to the next level, then they can't just stay focussed on asia and denmark, you need big sponsors like Nike, adidas, car companies on their side. If they just hope that asia and denmark is enough, then the board should get sacked immediately. Advertising is one of the keys to badminton's success forward or if nothing is done badminton will go backwards and other sports will go forwards, that's one of the facts of life.

well, may be, Thai situation's different from yours.We have new court every 2 months...er... in Bangkok.

we, my friends and I, love to go around and play in the new one.

Here is my input:

1. What about canceling the setting to 17 or 13 points?

In my opinion it is useless rule, based on my observation in the 95% of cases games are set and this makes imho the game less attractive, because after the comeback the player is not granted with the possibility of winning the game. Instead of the exiting game/match point we have the momentum of relax. This is not something that attracts audience and also makes the rules complicated.
The second complicated and difficult rule to follow is order of serving in doubles. But even if I find this complicated and difficult to understand, I can hardly propose any solution here…

Anyway, I think the rules should be as simple as possible. It is good that rules concerning setting at 13 and 9 points were removed some time ago. I remember also a very stupid rule that in the moment of setting the score was changed to 0-0 and this was making people watching the match dizzy whether the game is finally finished or not.

2. Scholarships and promotion tournaments
I like the point with scholarships and promotion tournaments. Maybe it could be an agreement between IBF and scholarship holder that in exchange of IBF’ support the player would be obliged to participate in the certain number of promotion tournaments around the world.

3. Exchange of knowledge
I would be also happy to see camps (e.g. in the summer) for the players from different countries (especially from the countries where the badminton is under development). Local associations would be obliged to cover the expenses for the players (travel, hotel, meals), whereas the IBF should secure excellent coaches and sparing partners (e.g. retired top players).

What do you think about this?

regards,
dzgdz

Hi kwun,

In light of what Dzgdz has suggested about cancelling 17 and 13 points for men and women respectively, ie, NO deuce. Whoever reaches 15 or 11 points first shall win the game.

Some reasons for cancelling:

1. Avoids confusion, especially to the spectator who may not be too familiar with the game. Less confusion may generate greater interest in the game both as spectator and as player.

2. Avoids delays, time is shorten with less points played and players trying to waste time during deuce are prevented from doing so. We have seen how tournaments have been delayed and played till the wee hours of the next morning at both officials' and players' expense.

3. Players have to remain more focused on the game and not rely on extra deuce points. Every point becomes more important than before.

4. Maybe enhance viewing of the game on TV and allow commercials to have a longer exposure time. More sponsors may be attracted to support the game.

Someone may be able to think of more valid points.

As such you may wish to conduct a POLL to assess the popularity or otherwise of doing away with deuce.

I have already written to SBS (Mutilcultural TV network - they show apart from foreign films etc - a lot of soccer - Champions league/Premier league/Serie A/Primera Liga etc and soccer isn't that popular in Australia) about their nightly sports show and lack of Badminton, they claim they couldn't buy the time.

So then I e-mailed IBF about this and forward a scanned copy of SBS's reply.

I was disappointed with the IBF's reply back to me.

I would like to see the IBF aid national bodies in making Badminton avaiable for showing on TV!

I understand Star Sports has the majority/rights to most of the Badminton tournment highlights etc - why can't IBF arrange/purchase in the intrest of national bodies - some of these or negoitate to have them realeased in part to National bodies to oragnise with Networks, or step in themselves - giving more exposure on TV!:confused: [B]

Lack of Networks , Major Sponsors , Exposure etc.. If badminton were a National Game in America, i think it will do great. Most of the private companies in Asia are kinda conservative in Sponsoring Badminton as it is lack in T.V coverage. All about money and advertisements. Maybe some of the players don't have Star appearance ? For Eg.. Yao Ming went to NBA.. now everyone want to have a piece of him. And even some of the English Premiership players from China.. they have good coverage and sponsors.

Sometimes its just lack of TV time. A normal game last for only 30mins 1hr to 1/2hrs Tv time.. compare to NBA 48mins game time and around 3hrs TV time ( plus ads etc ).
Its all about money and hype. Maybe we should promote it like Tennis , make the game longer if not more TV break time ( so the players can rest more ).

For my two cents, I would like to see more post-match interviews. But, it is rather unfair to ask a person who is usually used to being on a badminton court suddenly thrust into an interview on TV. Imagine if it happened to you! If the person is not used to public speaking, then an image comes across of not being very animated.

Here's one solution: At least try to give players some element of media exposure and mock interviews. Give them scenarios depicting clips of play and ask them to comment.

When it comes to the real thing, ie live interviews, then at least they will come across more animated to the TV audience.

For the non-english speaking players, perhaps a translator who the player is familiar with can help the interview. All the better if the translator has some badminton knowledge. For example, I know a couple of the HK players and so would not mind the slightest trying to help out in a translation from Cantonese to English.

But I do love it now that players are more animated on court (like Jonas' dance in China Open), or Xia XZ. That should be encouraged more.

other points
Some of the Sports on TV use a slow motion repeat of play and try to educate the viewer on tactics, positioning etc. This might be an area to explore. But one big disadvantage is that in one match, there are only a maximum of two breaks and one of them is 90 seconds! Can a 5 set match of 9 points with 2.5 minutes inbetween assist this? 5 sets won't come back after the problems of the 11 point game for mixed doubles, but time out breaks may be a solution to help presenters rerun that special game play.

I tend to agree with the setting rule. It's not 'so useful' if the game has 15 points. BUT, it can add to the tension if it is in the final game. After all, 3rd set 14-14 is really exciting. Who would want the match to end?!

Originally posted by Cheung
But I do love it now that players are more animated on court (like Jonas' dance in China Open), or Xia XZ. That should be encouraged more.

other points
Some of the Sports on TV use a slow motion repeat of play and try to educate the viewer on tactics, positioning etc. This might be an area to explore. But one big disadvantage is that in one match, there are only a maximum of two breaks and one of them is 90 seconds! Can a 5 set match of 9 points with 2.5 minutes inbetween assist this? 5 sets won't come back after the problems of the 11 point game for mixed doubles, but time out breaks may be a solution to help presenters rerun that special game play.

Yup , true.. Sometimes i think the badminton players are too boring.. not enough expressions and court antics.

Ants-- If that's the case, then American Football (NFL) and baseball would have taken over the world:D. As for Yao Ming's fame and acceptance, he's in a game that has been around American public consciousness for a long time... definitely no comparison.

Cheung-- good suggestion to create interest via introduction and analysis into the intricacies of the game. Goodness knows how fanatical american sports fans get with statistics and other finer details of their favorite sports.

Increasing player exposure to media lets the fans acqaint and identify with the players, gives the sport a dramatic edge that's sometimes lost when televised. Also, having more players involved in media would meant that they could go into commentating after leaving the sport, bringing their experience and expertise to the audience.

Someone once complained about the boredom of watching non-emotive Chinese squads in the 80's-early 90's. Whether one likes it or not, expressive emotions sell... and especially sells well in the american public.

How about introducing edited games to accommodate those features? Have two versions of the games, live feed for badminton majority regions and edited rerun feed with the incorporated extras for N.A. and other minority regions.


Originally posted by ants
Lack of Networks , Major Sponsors , Exposure etc.. If badminton were a National Game in America, i think it will do great. Most of the private companies in Asia are kinda conservative in Sponsoring Badminton as it is lack in T.V coverage. All about money and advertisements. Maybe some of the players don't have Star appearance ? For Eg.. Yao Ming went to NBA.. now everyone want to have a piece of him. And even some of the English Premiership players from China.. they have good coverage and sponsors.

Sometimes its just lack of TV time. A normal game last for only 30mins 1hr to 1/2hrs Tv time.. compare to NBA 48mins game time and around 3hrs TV time ( plus ads etc ).
Its all about money and hype. Maybe we should promote it like Tennis , make the game longer if not more TV break time ( so the players can rest more ).

Cappy.. hehe just my tots. anyway.. if there is an American Champion.. i'm sure it will make headlines hehehe

Teams / national identities are an easy in to supporting a sport. Therefore team events at all levels are easier to broadcast and gain support for. Whilst badminton is primarily an individual sport events like TC UC could be even further expanded.

How about a televised team event in which say the top Danish clubs played national teams from Germany, England etc, I'm sure this could be supported by Danish Tv and then sold abroad hopefully.

The world ranking system: perhaps this should reach lower down, i.e. more tournaments in each country could count towards the rankings, even if you are only 1500 on the list you would be part of the same list as Chen Hong! This might then inspire more players to enter and support events.

Adapting the scoring has been tried before but I think it bears further consideration. When you sit and watch an event like the All England for a number of days its the close matches you remember, those it which the outcome was uncertain. Even when a great player dominates its a close match the crowd want to see. If a player opens a 4 point lead early in a game I imagine the number of times they win is very high. If a player takes the first set and leads 5-1 in the second probably only 1 in 25 games will be competitive. In tennis there is always the chance of a turnaround, a player can waste many points and games, even a couple sets and still comeback. The scoring in badminton makes every point crucial, but at the same time gives little opportunity for drama.

At the end of the day probably the only thing that would interest the networks is an American winning an Olympic medal, and the IBF can't do much about that.

Hi guys & gals,

Thank you for your wonderful responses so far, but do keep them coming in case you have forgotten to add some more ideas. We still have lots of time for you to think of some more. There may be other areas not currently covered adequately for which you like to add more. Like sponsorship and marketing, how can we best go about doing this, assuming we are part of the IBF Council.

Clearly, the world's strongest economy and also the most sporting (in terms of participation in a wide variety of sports and getting the most medals), the USA has placed badminton at a very, very low level. How can we change this? The USA could very well be the key. It is good to know that Gunawan has helped the US to enter the TC Finals in Jarkarta this May, but this is obviously insufficient to wake up the American public to the spectacular game of badminton. What else can be done?

Please do contribute to this brain storming exercise as freely as possible. Please don't hold back. Feel free to explore other related areas as well that can help BFers make known to the IBF of our existence and interest.

Hey Ants,

Oh I am sure it will... but how big will the headlines be and will the American media capture the event? Competitive badminton in N.A. is not really significant in the American public awareness. Even if there's an American Champ, would s/he capture the imagination of the public and create a rush for the nearest baddy clubs? Chances are, any rush to the baddy clubs won't be the result of an American championship... but rather it'll probably be the other way around. Champions are grown and nurtured, but there won't be any American Champs if there's no supportive environment for them.

Tony G., despite his representation of U.S. at the tourny, won't be seen as an American but rather as a hired help. For him to have the most effective contribution for the American cause, it's better that he help coach and nurture an American born player to prominence.

Originally posted by ants
Cappy.. hehe just my tots. anyway.. if there is an American Champion.. i'm sure it will make headlines hehehe

What's the big question? The reason why Badminton doesn't prosper is because it's difficult to market.

1) Badminton doesn't look good on tv

I'm not saying that the action is bad on tv, I'm saying it looks bad. Lighting is often pale and weak, crowds peer in from the dark, the courts look a sickly shade of green. And who can follow a white shuttle in white light? How about a yellow one or something that shows up better on tv? Any new viewer would just change channels because the look doesn't grab. Shoot, I love badminton and I get depressed looking at it on tv.

2) Players don't look good

This doesn't really have anything to do with how good looking they are, lord knows there are some very attractive players. But the thing is, what is the deal with what they're wearing? Don't badminton players know that short shorts went out in the 70s? Would it kill anyone to wear something more current? And what is the deal with the t-shirts? Aren't there any decent designers working on badminton shirts? It's bad enough people think we're second rate tennis players, do we have to look like we are as well?

3) Players don't have personality

No offense to Rasmussen who posts around here but all the players are damn boring. They have their games and that's it. There should be some focus on player personality too. It's like everyone is so polite and who wants to watch polite? Polite is as boring as paint drying on wall. Where's the rivalry? Where's the hype? But then this isn't really the players' faults, that's how the game today is set up.

For example, Jonas has that energetic, in-your-face, hyperactive player thing going, Paaske has that sturdy rock of a player image; the tv coverage should play that up. Taufik has that brooding surly badminton genius thing going, that should be focused on too. In fact, most every player has some sort of personality that's interesting but heck, there's never that much focus on players outside of the court. I don't see why you can't have a few players doing guest commentary on other matches, just so that their personalities are a little more known.

For this game to become popular doesn't boil down to creating a new scoring system, or changing the ranking system (damn I'm falling asleep already at the thought of that). It simply needs to be more exciting. And to do this thing where you set up matches between the Danes and the Germans would only excite people who are already badminton fans. Unless you can set up a game between the Danes and a team of Martians, no one new is going to tune in to watch it.

It also wouldn't be such a bad idea to change the announcers. Sheesh, are there any people less excited about the game? Using the American two or three announcer system would be a good start. Get a color man to talk about the subtleties and nuances of the game. Get some guy, who's only job is to make wisecracks and entertain, to call the game alongside the play commentator, that would do wonders. It's not enough to talk more, you need engaging people to do the talking.

Oh yeah, it wouldn't kill badminton to get a good video editor either. All the highlight clips I see are, you guessed it, boring. It kills me to watch them especially since I know that badminton is a fast, exciting game. Why can't we have some killer clips to go along with some cool music? Something along the lines of the NBA or NFL theme melodies? In fact, why don't we even have a theme melody? I'm sure a good theme melody would go miles in establishing badminton as a brand of entertainment.

And mind you, all this needs to be done well and done tastefully. I'm not talking about turning badminton into WWF Wrestling, I'm just talking about making the game better to watch.

I guess my problem is that I look at commercial badminton and I see something that just looks old. The courts look old, the clothes look old (shoot, Agassi was wearing the designs that Yonex comes up with back in the 80s), the players act old (man I'd love to see a player throw an immature tantrum on court). Can we please have something new already?

oh my god. i am so agreeing with everything that RealMad said. concise and right to the point!

3 thumbs up from kwun. i am speechless now.

Hmmm maybe we need need breeds of badminton players that look attractive on court and on T.V. Throws tantrums like John McEnroe ( maybe will cost him/her a point ). Maybe we will see players break their rackets on court. :D

besides RealMad's remark.. may i add .. more *** APPEAL! hahah joke only.That might get more tv coverage... also can add some sexy cheerleaders as well.

:D:D
It will be really fun to make players to dress like WWC with crazy face masks on :D:D

Oh, oh, I got another idea. :)
Anyone watching NBA or baseball? In each team, there is a specialized designed team logo. Maybe That can applies to Badminton as well? :) So, you will see people wearing some crazy cool shirts walking around representing each countries/teams.
That sure will make them look a little better.

An extreme idea would be to have mascots :)
(you will see them jumping everywhere :D, but that could be too much of fun )

Originally posted by ants
Hmmm maybe we need need breeds of badminton players that look attractive on court and on T.V. Throws tantrums like John McEnroe ( maybe will cost him/her a point ). Maybe we will see players break their rackets on court. :D

besides RealMad's remark.. may i add .. more *** APPEAL! hahah joke only.That might get more tv coverage... also can add some sexy cheerleaders as well. I don't advocate promotion of bad language/bad behaviour just for the sake of publicity. Other avenues can be better explored.

About Realmad's suggestion on the announcing system - does anybody think the All England is moving in the right direction?

Cheerleaders have been done...once. It was the Japan Open. The Japanese are very,very polite audiences so it didn't seem to bring out a response from the audience.

And the stuff about *** appeal - not saying it's wrong but the sport should not force players into such stereotypes. It should be a natural extension of their personalities. The fact is that very many top players are Asian. BFer's who live in the US have to bear in mind such things as cultural upbringing of players in whom respect and conversatism are traits for good citizens in society.

IMHO, I think it's ridiculous that for the Yonex sponsored players, the ladies are wearing shorter length T-shirts than the men. The ladies should have their choice. I stand corrected if all the ladies choose shorter T-shirts:). But the short T-shirts coincidentally started after a senior IBF official said they would try to make the game sexier (from a StarOnline article a couple of years back).

Absolutely agree about the T-shirt designs. Perhaps that's a problem associated with one dominant sponsor of the players who get to the final round.

We have to remember the game is setup by National Associations. Players do not hire individual coaches unlike tennis. Thus players who have more 'independent' personalities become rarer because they either (a) leave their national association because of disagreements, (b) get thrown out anyway. I don't know the systems very well, but many these players probably do not have a chance to play in international tournaments because their country will refuse to register them.

Originally posted by bluejeff
Oh, oh, I got another idea. :)
Anyone watching NBA or baseball? In each team, there is a specialized designed team logo. Maybe That can applies to Badminton as well? :) So, you will see people wearing some crazy cool shirts walking around representing each countries/teams.
That sure will make them look a little better. Not a bad idea at all! Helps make the audience get involved as well.

about the shorter shirts. i don't think it is compulsory. latest China Open WD finals. Gao/Huang was wearing shorters t-shirts. but Yang/Zhang was wearing the more traditional length.

as from the audience's point of view, i think the both the short and the traditional length looks pretty good. both have their merits. if the players are comfortable with it, i think they should be allowed to choose.

i noticed more European players choose darker color. some in the English team wear black + black.

imho, it should be the manufacturers who are setting the trend for badminton fashion. and i do think yonex is moving the right direction. badminton is played indoor where the lighting is relatively dim, the latest set of t-shirts are brightly colored which makes the players stands out more.

of course, asthetics is very subjective, i can imagine many may disagree with the latest colors.. :)

Finally, some ideas!

Cheung: I'm not exactly advocating bad language/bad behavior. I just find it strange that a net sport like badminton (which has linemen and an umpire so it gets subjective) doesn't have a single bad boy in the lot. What I was getting at was that players should be allowed to express themselves more because everybody's too damn nice to each other right now that it's unnatural. Surely some player out there is more ticked off than he's showing and audience's really respond to that kind of honestly.

Btw, the All England announcers are terrible. That girl is annoying. I can sort of tell that they are trying to be exciting but they really stink. We need announcers that didn't come from Public Broadcasting. And it's not actually about how loud your voice gets, it's actually about keeping a certain pace and tone. More ESPN radio and less snooze radio, that should be the sound.

Cheerleaders are extreme and kinda smack of desperation. Now unless you can get some really smoking hot chicks, this shouldn't be done. What would work though, I think, is if you planted cheerleaders in the crowd. In the US, there are plenty of characters in the crowd during games and they get people worked up, I think this would be better for badminton, especially since we play a game where you're allowed to be noisy during rallies.

And about this thing of badminton being set up by National Associations. Frankly, I don't care. I don't give a damn at all. Badminton's got to change and somebody's got to make them change.

Really, I think that too many people are too polite, too many people don't want to change, too many people want to play safe. Maybe it's because the IBF board is made up of too many old (or old-thinking) people. But this game won't get more exciting for new people until it gets more exciting for us.

Kwun: Asthetics are not that subjective. It's actually quite simple to figure out what's cool:

1) Just get all the opinions from current t-shirt designers, IBF officials, and announcers.

2) Put their opinions in a box and label the box "NOT COOL".

3) Get opinions from people like you and me. Get opinions from football (the real football, not the american kind) jersey and basketball jersey designers. Get opinions from skateboard wear designers.

4) Put these opinions in a box and label, "MIGHT BE COOL".

5) Take each opinion from the "MIGHT BE COOL" box and check that it doesn't match any opinion from the "NOT COOL" box. If they match, throw away the opinion. If they don't match, put the opinion into a box labelled "COOL".

See Kwun? Simplicity in itself. And the funny thing is, I'm dead serious. Oftentimes, the best way to get an idea of what's cool is to find the dweebiest, most boring, most uncool people you can imagine and just do the opposite of what they want. It's kinda mean, but the marketing industry has been doing it for years.

And the fact is, there's just nobody cool in badminton so we might as well use the resource that we do have -- tons of uncool people.

Btw, thanks for the 3 thumbs up Kwun. I hope I can keep getting 3 thumbs up but I doubt it. Sooner or later I always go over the top.

Originally posted by RealMad
Cheung: I'm not exactly advocating bad language/bad behavior. I just find it strange that a net sport like badminton (which has linemen and an umpire so it gets subjective) doesn't have a single bad boy in the lot. What I was getting at was that players should be allowed to express themselves more because everybody's too damn nice to each other right now that it's unnatural. Surely some player out there is more ticked off than he's showing and audience's really respond to that kind of honestly. Agree but bad personalities? perhaps because the finals are dominated by a small number of players, therefore an audience (and a TV audience) do not exposed to the wider range (and therefore personalities) of players.


Btw, the All England announcers are terrible. That girl is annoying. I can sort of tell that they are trying to be exciting but they really stink. We need announcers that didn't come from Public Broadcasting. And it's not actually about how loud your voice gets, it's actually about keeping a certain pace and tone. More ESPN radio and less snooze radio, that should be the sound. That bad:)? Are you referring to the announcers or the commentators? I'm referring to the announcers who introduce players over the speaker system in the arena.


Cheerleaders are extreme and kinda smack of desperation. Now unless you can get some really smoking hot chicks, this shouldn't be done. What would work though, I think, is if you planted cheerleaders in the crowd. In the US, there are plenty of characters in the crowd during games and they get people worked up, I think this would be better for badminton, especially since we play a game where you're allowed to be noisy during rallies. Agree about the desperation part:) The audience is allowed to be noisy inbetween and between rallies. However, one cannot always do so - just like tennis. A badminton game is based on 2 or 4 individuals. Not a team of players.

And about this thing of badminton being set up by National Associations. Frankly, I don't care. I don't give a damn at all. Badminton's got to change and somebody's got to make them change. You may not care at all but that is how the system is. Let's face the reality. The money and the human resources are not there for the individuals to face international tournaments without the help of their respective associations. The item then becomes more political in nature. Unfortunately, just saying 'you do not care about the politics' does not get things done!

Really, I think that too many people are too polite, too many people don't want to change, too many people want to play safe. Maybe it's because the IBF board is made up of too many old (or old-thinking) people. But this game won't get more exciting for new people until it gets more exciting for us. That goes back to the players again. It's very rare that you can find a player who can get angry and play even better. Professional badminton is played on a very fine margin of error. Getting annoyed is one thing. You will not see many occasions of outright remonstrations by players because it interferes with their rhythm and game play. It also may make their technique a little more stiffer. Gamesmanship can happen - I seen a red card given to Ha Tae Kwon:) I just doubt you will see it in a final so often. The ones who keep their cool in the finals usually win the match! Taufik Hidayat is a notable exception who can get angry and play better. And look what's happened to him...........:(

Originally posted by RealMad
And the fact is, there's just nobody cool in badminton so we might as well use the resource that we do have -- tons of uncool people. I think it would be better to express that opinion a little more accurately. To which group of people are you referring to?

I've been in the audience in Japan Open where people are terribly polite. I've also been in China and nearly seen a fight break out between two supporters of opposing players! HK audience, generally on the polite side (me being an exception:D) unless a local HK player is playing.

The Thomas Cup is generally the most atmospheric and electrifying atmosphere.

Camilla Martin is as charismatic and animated a badminton player can be. When under pressure, she often curses herself and throws a (few) tantrums. This is brilliant to catch on cameras. She is one of the rare few that can benefit from "losing it".

The English players have some sort of hard image going on, and seem to have outbursts on court, at an increasingly regular rate...just for the sake of it. Often though, they are penalised for it. IMO this makes them look bad, and ers on the side of bad sportsmanship/sore loser. I think Simon Archer was one of the ones that started it, but I think it needs to be kerbed a little bit, as the Juniors are watching this and think it's ok to go OTT without knowing why or how to control it to your advantage. If you ever notice the English players in promotional photos, they all have a mean hard pose (especially the men). The Hi-tec sponsored black T-shirts and shorts look menacing. They should be applauded for making the effort, even though in my opinion they don't quite live up to the image.

On the other hand, I know that Simon Archer and Gail Emms have done their bit to promote the sport by appearing on TV and magazine cover respectively.

The All England's atmosphere is unique.......uniqely dull, but is improving gradully.
If not for the Chinese, Malaysian and Korean supporters, it would be very very quiet. Certainly at the Birmingham national indoor arena anyway, I was not around when the AE was still at Wembley.

The announcer sounds like a pub darts announcer/commentator. The intro music is very predictable and cheesy (gets worse when they use the same stuff every year). The music, announcements and the smoke creates a boxing style atmosphere....but badminton is so different from boxing. Imagine after all this tension packed atmosphere you have created, out comes a group of typical Asian girls and keeps playing clear and clear to eachother for an hour+....not the showdown you would have hoped for.

If you look around the stadium, you'll see lots of grandads and grandmums sitting there quietly, gasping and the odd mumble of, "well played". Whenever I or any of my friends make any noise, usually discussing the point just played, we get a ear piercing "SSSSHHHHH" shoved in our ears. What's the point, when we are sitting X rows up the top and only talking very quietly??? The players certainly can't here us from down there, are we impairing them from hearing the shuttle stroking sounds??? I don't know :confused:

Horns, rattlers and clappers are also banned. Vital ingredients for creating a sporting atmosphere. There are thunderstix, but you are under the illusion that you have a choice to buy them, but they are the ONLY choice you have if you want to contribute some noise and support.

In the same arena, Tennis is also played there from time to time. During Davis Cup Tennis, the atmosphere there is infinetly better than that of badminton. It sounds literally like the house is going to fall down....why can't we have that for badminton?

Originally posted by Cheung
Agree but bad personalities? perhaps because the finals are dominated by a small number of players, therefore an audience (and a TV audience) do not exposed to the wider range (and therefore personalities) of players.

Well then does that mean that there are just no interesting personalities that win in badminton? If so, then yeah, maybe this sport doesn't have a chance to succeed and we should wait until a talent shows up that's somehow entertaining.

That bad:)? Are you referring to the announcers or the commentators? I'm referring to the announcers who introduce players over the speaker system in the arena.

Oh, I was referring to TV announcers. Courtside announcers do not matter to TV audiences and are quite inconsequential to the bigger picture.

Agree about the desperation part:) The audience is allowed to be noisy inbetween and between rallies. However, one cannot always do so - just like tennis. A badminton game is based on 2 or 4 individuals. Not a team of players.

Funny, I thought that, watching the Indonesian tournaments, people were cheering through the rallies and that was allowed.

You may not care at all but that is how the system is. Let's face the reality. The money and the human resources are not there for the individuals to face international tournaments without the help of their respective associations. The item then becomes more political in nature. Unfortunately, just saying 'you do not care about the politics' does not get things done!

Actually, I think saying "I don't care" does get things done. I think that it's only once badminton sees an official who is willing to throw away convention and really have the balls to try something new that badminton will change its image.

That goes back to the players again. It's very rare that you can find a player who can get angry and play even better. Professional badminton is played on a very fine margin of error. Getting annoyed is one thing. You will not see many occasions of outright remonstrations by players because it interferes with their rhythm and game play. It also may make their technique a little more stiffer. Gamesmanship can happen - I seen a red card given to Ha Tae Kwon:) I just doubt you will see it in a final so often. The ones who keep their cool in the finals usually win the match! Taufik Hidayat is a notable exception who can get angry and play better. And look what's happened to him...........:(

Damn, so badminton players are boring, I was hoping they weren't. Oh wait no, they are exciting to watch play but outside of that, you might as well read a book waiting for the next point to start.

Sports is so much more than the actual game and it's naive to think that skill is what sells a sport. You need skill and image (yes, believe it, image is everything) and if one is missing, you don't have a product.

And the uncool people I am referring to are whoever organizes these tournaments. Is there any less of a spectacle in sport than badminton? The overall look and excitement of a badminton tourney is about the same as the World Championship of Darts. Even 9-Ball Pool tournaments are more exciting. Badminton needs a marketing man who knows what he's doing. Otherwise, there's no way this sport will climb out of obscurity.

Well Said RealMad.:)

Like I said earlier though, if the sport changed it's game because of it's image, then I would rather it stays the way it is. So what if it's on TV more? but it sure would be difficult to watch with TV ad breaks every 3 minutes. I'd hate it to become too commercialised. It's not that I want to keep the game to myself, but the game is already rather elitist (in the west anyway). The first thing to do, would be to remove the elitism which has held the game back so long, and make it more accessible to all types of players, and thus raise interest.

We need more TV coverage of local domestic tournaments and local players.

We need more TV coverage of world class tournaments.

We need more statistics, such as head to heads. (to create rivalry, and gambling :rolleyes: ) -where there's money, people will follow

We need a people's champion (someone we could all relate to and aspire to be)

We need better TV commentators (more exciting).

The prize money needs to be increased (to raise interest and competitivess).

We need more high profile people playing or admitting to play badminton. No George W. Bush and P.M. Blair will not do ;)

We need more exposure to the grassroots. (Pro players could go on tour to the schools around the country).

Pro players to interact more with lower level players as well as public. (tp create a higher public profile).

We should scrap using the countries as teams, and instead adopt league with named city teams. (to diffuse confusion for who playing for who). Even in singles, it is an individual playing for a team representing a country. They are ultimately not playing for themselves. Compare with Tennis, Andre Agassi plays for himself and not the US (apart from olympics and such events). In football, David Beckham plays for Real Madrid, but can represent England, his home country in world events.

Most pro badminton players have quit and lead alternative careers by the late 20s, which seem to suggest to some that it is a short hobby/amateurish career, or one that lacks longetivity, opportunities and stability that a parent prefers a child to have.

It's too early in the morning to think of anything more to add.....(-_-)zzz

Sorry CHEUNG for the *** APPEAL thing.. just speaking out loud. :D. I think there should be a drastic measure to improve the game and IBF should think of a way to draw more crowds. Most of the opinions above are valid and should be taken into consideration. This will take years i hope. Come to think of it , in Asia generally local sports not really a crowd drawer. Maybe Asians are too conservative. IMHO.
So far i don't see any sports in Asia don't have as big coverage like those in America.
And also one of the reason is our sports channel are monopolized by American T.V Networks like CNN , ESPN. Exception of STARSPORTS which is from Asia. Even the news is about Western Sports. We don't see much coverage about Badminton even on NEWS. Most of the Play of the Day in ESPN is like Soccer, Basketball , Golf , Cars etc. No badminton. And i personally think that Jonas Shot should be included in The Play of The Day.

Maybe what they cater is to the Masses. What Badminton need is more exposure worldwide in general. Like exhibition games around town.. make a big event get big sponsoships etc.. maybe have a colaboration between NBA and Badminton.. Xia play badminton with Kobe and Kobe play basketball with Xia.. ( just my weird idea ).

But i think China would be a great place to start exposing Badminton worldwide since now the West is looking towards China. I hope the Olympics would be a good start and something might happen.. more pll will watch Badminton.

It is true that there still exists cultural differences but I think this is slowly breaking down especially in the younger countries which have media access, particularly the TV, to the US and Europe. This is good for badminton as many of the top playing countries are from Asia where traditions seem to be more difficult to change, as in the case of Japan. But here again the young Japanese seem to be the ones quick to change and seemingly taking the lead from the US.

Just take a look at the recently concluded TC/UC qualifiers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Unfortunately this was not televised live worldwide and only Malaysians got to see the finals live between their own country and China.

I was there to soak in the excitement for three days until the Finals. You know, of all the teams, Japan and Thailand have their men and women players dye their hair.

As the host nation, Malaysia was all prepared to support their men's team with their official cheer leaders dressed in matching uniforms with the ladies holding on to their golden pompoms and the men the huge placards on the word "BOLEH", mean Malaysia "CAN". Of course, being a Muslim country, the "pompom girls" are appropriately dressed with the traditional scarve over their heads, long shirt sleeves and long skirts, know as 'sarong kebaya' in Malay. Sexy outfits were obviously tabooed. But this did not stop them from cheering heartily for the Malaysian Team. I hope the TV zoomed in on them from time to time when they cheered. And to add to the excitement, they do have a MASCOT, the cheerleader dressed in Tiger attire and wielding a mean badminton racket as well.

And do you know there was a rival cheer group on the stands dressed in yellow T-shirts, which I later knew was sponsored by Samsung. The leader brought five long poles for the national flag so that supporters can wave them, long banners, hand drums, song sheets and home-made horns devised from coke cans pierced with a hole as mouth piece with a sawn plastic bottle placed and secured within the can. It so happened that they were seated next to me, so I just joined in the fun making a din of a noise with the horn, blown in unison, an chanting "Malaysia Boleh" whenever a Msian player scored a point against China.

Now the surprising thing was that these two cheer groups joked and complemented each other in the cheering. It was a delightful sight and got others to join in the singing and shouting too.

Another quite untraditional sight was when Lin Dan played Lee Chong Wei in the second singles. Lin Dan was obviously the more playful and eye-catching personality as he executed many diving saves and talking to himself for silly mistakes. At one point he was down on his buttocks and flingling his racket on the court and blaming himself aloud. Despite all this show of tantrums, he was not "warned" by the Singaporean umpire. At one stage he even 'disallowed' Chong Wei to change the shuttle and when Chong Wei took revenge later by asking the shuttle to be changed because LD 'meddled' with the feathers, the umpire overruled him and allowed Chong Wei to have a change this time. Although Lin Dan finally won in 3 games, he drew attention when he 'saluted' Chong Wei for playing so well.

If some of you guys think that many things are not allowed and there are no notable personalities in badminton and the game is boring, the finals between Msia and China would have proven you all wrong. I never had it so good as an active spectator on the side of Msia and Lin surpassed them all as the personality of the evening. Watch out for this match on TV. It will change your perception.

Now I hope the IBF will not censure Msia for the rowdiness and Lin Dan will not be reprimanded by his more serious coaches.

Originally posted by RealMad
Actually, I think saying "I don't care" does get things done. I think that it's only once badminton sees an official who is willing to throw away convention and really have the balls to try something new that badminton will change its image.

Damn, so badminton players are boring, I was hoping they weren't. Oh wait no, they are exciting to watch play but outside of that, you might as well read a book waiting for the next point to start.

Sports is so much more than the actual game and it's naive to think that skill is what sells a sport. You need skill and image (yes, believe it, image is everything) and if one is missing, you don't have a product.

And the uncool people I am referring to are whoever organizes these tournaments. Is there any less of a spectacle in sport than badminton? The overall look and excitement of a badminton tourney is about the same as the World Championship of Darts. Even 9-Ball Pool tournaments are more exciting. Badminton needs a marketing man who knows what he's doing. Otherwise, there's no way this sport will climb out of obscurity.

"I don't care" approach - that's an approach that's seen in American films:)

Here's a rather apt quote from a book:

problem solvers often complain they have worked out ideal solutions but that no one will use them.........real problems also includes the people who have to accept and act on the situation

Damn, so badminton players are boring, I was hoping they weren't. Oh wait no, they are exciting to watch play but outside of that, you might as well read a book waiting for the next point to start. Perhaps we should ask our professional players what are their opinions on this statement!

Not that I disagree with some of the points made within this thread. I just do not think using rather crude terms which may be interpreted as arrogance will get very far. Well reasoned and logical arguments showing one's consideration of the problem from different angles will give more weight. I do not think it is fair to assume badminton is run by people who do not wish to see the popularity of the game improve or too short sighted.

On the other hand, there was a very curious statement made by a well respected IBF member on a change of the game a couple fo years ago. Commenting on its failure, the IBF member said "we should find out what the audience wants..." (or words to that effect). I think it was Mag who pointed out the strange fact that the question was not asked beforehand.....

Actually I have to join Cheung in saying that there are qualified, knowledgeable, experienced and responsible people in the IBF Council. If one compares the state of world badminton today versus that of say 5 or 10 years ago, significant improvements have been made and more progress is to be expected.

If the run-up to the TC/UC finals is anything to go by, the world badminton community has certainly expanded to include hitherto unheard of country names and personalities. The new TC/UC format makes for a fairer worldwide representation and more countries are now looking forward to competitions and the Olympics, which should be giving greater limelight to badminton because of its increased popularity, at least that's my hope.

If one cares to study the background of IBF Councillors, one should be impressed. Among them are great badminton players of their time. Names like Punch Gunalan of Malaysia, Charoen Wattanasin of Thailand, Rudy Hartono of Indonesia and Li Lingwei of China. Now surely these former world-class champions know something about the game and the desired personality types. No one can fail to be impressed by the versatile and graceful Hartono when he displayed his skills on court. Young and handsome, polite and well-mannered, yet he commands an aura of awe, without having to throw his tantrums.

It is good that the IBF has roped in former international players who can best represent the players' interest.

Having said this, things have changed. We need greater variety and perhaps less stereotypes. Depending on our role whether as player, spectator or administrator/organizer, we need to satisfy our expectations. Therefore, hopefully, our inputs will add another dimension to the IBF machine.

Well, I am an American but films or not, I don't see how this changes anything. You can argue with me all you want, you can call me arrogant all you want, but even if someone wins an argument against me (which is not going to happen), ultimately the fact still remains: Badminton, as a spectator sport, stinks.

While yes, I am aware of the quote, "Problem solvers often complain they have worked out ideal solutions but that no one will use them.........real problems also includes the people who have to accept and act on the situation"

I am much more a fan of the quote, "It's either my way, or the highway." In business, in politics, in whatever field; the great men, the ones who effected change, the guys who got things done were the ones who were uncompromising, hard-nosed, and quite dictatorial.

I think this is much more of the personality that badminton needs right now. Someone with a clear vision to change things, especially since I'm sure there are tons of badminton bureaucrats right now that will work hard to keep things at the boring status quo. I mean the compromising, negotiating problem solver type has his uses, but in this situation.

And why ask a professional player if he's boring? Of course he'll say he's not. What you do is you ask a casual fan, someone who doesn't know the playing reputation of a player. See if they will say that pro players are interesting.

This doesn't have anything to do with badminton knowledge. This boils down to whether or not you're compelling simply when people watch you.

You tell me that it's not fair to assume that badminton is run by boring, short-sighted people. Look at the state of the game and tell me how I'm not being fair making that assumption. I don't know about you but I think I'm calling it exactly how I see it, exactly how it is.

Now now, Real Mad, you do know Cheung is a moderator right? ;P

I think you both have very valid points. One of you seems to see your glass half empty, the other half full! We can say that badminton have moved on these last 10 or more years, however it has not made much impact on the Western general public.

A point earlier about the elitists keeping the game to themselves. A quote by a former international and All England winner, whom I shall not name said, "badminton is only about and for the players". Words to that effect.
Badminton in some Western societies stems from a heritage of "gentleman's sports". It was a game only played by the higher class and the elite. They would spit blood to see the game become common and commercialised. A lot of us do not and hope not to see it this way, but some do.

Tennis comes from a similar tradition, and I am sure you'll all agree the (womens) game has become more interesting and popular ever since the arrival of the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena. They broke the mould because they were not types of people usually associated with the sport, coming form a working class family.

Sports entertainment provides the viewer with a wide variety of emotions and reactions. It is also a fantasy of many people (mainly men) to be a successful sportsmen. It is not just about scoring that perfect goal, strike, dunk or putt but also the wealth, glamour, lifestyle, fame, admiration, adoration and kudos associated with it. From a stereotypical view, a typical Amercian caucasian is not going to be fascinated by watching an Asian throwing himself around a dimly lit arena, for the sake of a paltry pay cheque and a bunch of flowers.

Basically it is a form of escapism for some people, who cannot or do not partake in top competitive sports. Some take part in ways that they actually can, such as using their minds instead of their bodies, such as playing fantasy league tables and video games, often with full career simulations/management options. It is to no surprise that football, tennis, golf and basketball constitute the top of the sports videogames genres.

Some people who are neither players or coaches, use their knowledge of a particular sport to make an income. Some commentate (TV, Radio), some write (books, magazines), some report (TV, newspapers). The franchise medium doesn't just end with TV and video games. There are; Soap dramas, films, music, fictional books, biographies, autobiographies, and comics inspired or based on popular sports, to name a few :p

I can't see all these avenues and enthusiasm available in badminton. Yet.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the indoor stadiums, which all look similar on television. Contrast to the immediately discernible not to mention glamorous stadiums for Tennis' USopen, Wimbledon, Rolland Garros, Australia Open.

Annually at the wimbledon tennis there is a debate about the modern players being more boring, about how the serve dominates, there are no rallies etc etc. Yet it remains a hugely successful event. It is more about "wimbledon" than the tennis.

Similarly in football often the match can end 0-0 without incident , the spectators stand in the cold, often only with clear view of half the pitch.


The reasons for popularity in both cases are the media, the culture, the history.

As said above much of the coverage of sports involves statitics and hype not relating directly to the game. Averages, serve speeds, shot distribution, controversial calls, the officials, managers, transfers, drugs, players relationships. Badminton does seem to fall short in these areas.

Players who would risk jumping for the shuttle and smashing onto the line to win a world title, who dive for the shuttle with no regard for safety, who battle for 90 minutes in a single match, these are not boring ! The range of physiques, nationalities and styles that can be found at the top and the competitiveness is not boring.

The problem lies deeper... it's not the sport. The game is fine, it's the appearance of the sport, how it's being marketed. Realmad has a point that the marketing approach for Badminton has to change. Present badminton development captivates nobody else other than the converted. The game itself is not media friendly as one singles game can last for hours. It can be exciting... for those already intimate to the game, but holds little in the average TV viewer's short attention span.

Players need to be allowed some lattitude in their expressions. I believe one of the more popular Chinese players, Xia Xuanze, is more distinguished from his peers due to his open individuality and gregarious personality. When a player reveals his temperament (however slightly... as long as it's noticed) in public, it sets him apart from the crowd and, in turn, garner more public attention to his performance.

Originally posted by RealMad
I am much more a fan of the quote, "It's either my way, or the highway." In business, in politics, in whatever field; the great men, the ones who effected change, the guys who got things done were the ones who were uncompromising, hard-nosed, and quite dictatorial. I think this is one method. But bear in mind, you will only see the succesful ones who use this method. There may be many more out there who have been unsuccessful with this attitude.:o

Originally posted by cappy75
The problem lies deeper... it's not the sport. The game is fine, it's the appearance of the sport, how it's being marketed. Realmad has a point that the marketing approach for Badminton has to change. Present badminton development captivates nobody else other than the converted. The game itself is not media friendly as one singles game can last for hours. One badminton match will not usually last longer than a soccer match, American football, golf, tennis, baseball when all the breaks are included.

Originally posted by RealMad
Asthetics are not that subjective. It's actually quite simple to figure out what's cool:

1) Just get all the opinions from current t-shirt designers, IBF officials, and announcers.

2) Put their opinions in a box and label the box "NOT COOL".

3) Get opinions from people like you and me. Get opinions from football (the real football, not the american kind) jersey and basketball jersey designers. Get opinions from skateboard wear designers.

4) Put these opinions in a box and label, "MIGHT BE COOL".

5) Take each opinion from the "MIGHT BE COOL" box and check that it doesn't match any opinion from the "NOT COOL" box. If they match, throw away the opinion. If they don't match, put the opinion into a box labelled "COOL".

That sounds like a definition of subjective. Steps 1-5 are all about people's opinions. How can that be anything but subjective?

Get the Nike president to become a badminton player .......

Get the Nike president to become a badminton player .......

I live 5 minutes walking distance from Nike world wide head quarter and I play badminton at a gym 5 minutes walking distance from my home. I’ve never seen a Nike people play badminton there. To be honest, I am hard to find a pair of Nike court shoes for badminton.

Originally posted by Neil Nicholls
That sounds like a definition of subjective. Steps 1-5 are all about people's opinions. How can that be anything but subjective?

Wow, I thought it would be impossible for anyone to miss the sarcasm in my statement but I was wrong :eek: Looks like in the future I have to be even more sarcastic... :p

Originally posted by Cheung
I think this is one method. But bear in mind, you will only see the succesful ones who use this method. There may be many more out there who have been unsuccessful with this attitude.:o

Dude, this is true of any method. There are many failed compromisers too...

Anyway, my point remains the same. This game needs some serious shaking up and honestly, I don't see anyone looking to do any shaking. I understand we're not going to be at the same level of tennis any time soon but isn't anyone disturbed by the fact that we can't even match the popularity (or the paychecks) of pool, bowling or even fishing? FISHING for chrissakes! There is a higher tv turnout to watch fat dudes sitting on chairs in boats.

And here's the funnier thing... it's actually more fun to watch the fishing, for the simple fact that ESPN knows how to package fishing. They've got commentators and graphics and guests and stuff like that.

I look at half the sports on TV and I look at badminton and I'm just shaking my head. We should be on TV! What is wrong here? Something is seriously wrong when most anyone can pay for all of the winnings of a pro badminton tournament out of their credit card.

Badminton is my sport and I refuse to acknowledge that my sport is this dull. Someone is screwing up somewhere and I'd really would like to see it fixed.

Originally posted by RealMad
And the funny thing is, I'm dead serious.

I must have missed all that sarcasm. How uncool of me.

Originally posted by RealMad
This game needs some serious shaking up and honestly, I don't see anyone looking to do any shaking.
But I agree with what you say about the stuff that does get on TV.

The big TV sports generally have an excess of people who will actually go to venue to watch it live. In the West, I don't think badminton is in that category.
As we get more and more TV channels, they have to fill them with something, and that's where the minority (in TV terms) sports get a chance. If it's cheap.

I don't think it would make any difference if badminton had regular intervals that could be used for adverts or not. It has to make the break onto TV and become popular first.

I don't think the Western world is willing to advertise badminton. I think it was here on BF that a poster pointed out that the TV stations aren't going to air shows where the Chinese are portrayed with superior dominance in anything ...

Feel free to blast.

-dave

Badminton is a fringe sport comparing to the other televised team sports. It's making a slow gain among N.A. communities, having little facilities doesn't help either. There's still a long ways ahead before the sport gain critical mass and attract media attention. I think for 'sports' like fishing, there's more corporate sponsors (outdoor equipment costs alot... not just the fishing rod) to fund the programs so it's ambly supported on TV. There's a weaker corporate presence in badminton. Even dominant Yonex alone has other big priorities such as Tennis and Golf (popular TV sports). Most of the major events are basically Yonex exhibitions to the exclusion of other competing brands, so other companies find less incentives to buy TV advertisement in the events. That in turn dissuade TV execs from showing the sport:(.

Originally posted by Neil Nicholls
But I agree with what you say about the stuff that does get on TV.

The big TV sports generally have an excess of people who will actually go to venue to watch it live. In the West, I don't think badminton is in that category.
As we get more and more TV channels, they have to fill them with something, and that's where the minority (in TV terms) sports get a chance. If it's cheap.

I don't think it would make any difference if badminton had regular intervals that could be used for adverts or not. It has to make the break onto TV and become popular first.

Table tennis is another Chinese dominant sport, does it have a huge presence in European media? It certainly doesn't in N.A. I don't recall seeing a single table tennis event on ESPN. Actually I think China is pretty strong in other sports such as swimming, diving and weightlifting as well... and we still see some of those sports on national TV.

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
I don't think the Western world is willing to advertise badminton. I think it was here on BF that a poster pointed out that the TV stations aren't going to air shows where the Chinese are portrayed with superior dominance in anything ...

Feel free to blast.

-dave

a few points i want to raise...

complexity of the rule

some mentioned the complexity of current badminton rules and to change it to be easier to understand. i respectfully disagree that badminton rules is that hard to understand. in fact, badminton has probably the simpliest set of rules for all games. just look at tennis. what 15/30/40? tie break? having a deuce/set at the end of the game is quite common among games, i think that need not be changed.

spectator vs. participation

one strange phenomenon that i noticed is that most badminton players i know in the US cares very little else about badminton other than playing it. very few players would know who are the best countries are and how real professional badminton is like. it seems to me that this group of ppl enjoys participating in the game but not following the professional level matches.

perhaps this is the result of lack of media coverage, if everybody are not aware of the current badminton news, then naturally they don't care too much about it. but the fact that they showed little interests even if mentioned is strange to me.

Originally posted by kwun
it seems to me that this group of ppl enjoys participating in the game but not following the professional level matches.
Sports like football , soccer, rugby, baseball, basketball, hockey have teams that are based on a geographical area. If you live in that place they are "your" team.
I don't particularly watch much football, but I still go out of my way to find out how "my" team did. Partly because I've lived here for so long, partly because other family members or friends do support them more and go to matches.

I don't know what drives people to watch golf or snooker. Maybe there is a small number of players that they particularly want to watch. I know that is how I currently watch badminton. There are certain players I want to watch, others I'm not so interested in.

So, to increase the popularity of badminton, we come again to the question of a national club league. In the UK, people more easily identify themselves with their town/city than their county. Our top players go to Denmark and Germany to play in their leagues. Do any foreigners come to the UK to play in our county league?

Originally posted by Neil Nicholls


So, to increase the popularity of badminton, we come again to the question of a national club league. In the UK, people more easily identify themselves with their town/city than their county. Our top players go to Denmark and Germany to play in their leagues. Do any foreigners come to the UK to play in our county league?
Yes, it seems that the popularity of a game depends on many factors, some of which you have mentioned. The task of trying to influence a person to identify with any particular game, I suppose, falls on the broad shoulders of the world body controlling a particular sport (in badminton, the IBF), the national sports associations (say BA of England), the clubs (which perhaps organize the leagues), the schools down to the personal level of players who in turn try to influence their relatives and friends. To be effective, at every stage of this network progress has to be made.

As regards the Danish and German leaques you mentioned, it is interesting to note that this open competition is peculiar to Europe and I think it is a good way to popularize the game and maintain interest among players and spectators there. We don't have it in Singapore and probably not in Southeast Asia too. The competitions are perhaps more specific like National Championships, National Schools, Satellite Open, Singapore Open and more recently, the SBA has introduced or revived the National Masters for 35 yrs and 45 yrs and above respectively.

I think the European leaques are more interesting and involve more teams and therefore more players, including the foreigners, can participate. But to introduce the league system to another country may not be easy. In Singapore, we do have the inter-constituency tournaments and the occasional inter-club matches, but these competitions are less regular and restricted to the locals not foreigners. Ideally, we should have a league system involving the major clubs in SE Asia (presuming that there are not enough local clubs with quality players) to make it more interesting, but here again, much effort has to be applied.

I read somewhere that China does have an active 'closed' league system and maybe this is one reason why the game remains so popular there. They have both the base and the talent.

Our present exercise here is to try to influence the IBF on some other ideas that may help popularlize the sport further. Everything adds up, the suggestions, criticisms and grievances of our posters.

so.........

anybody care to summarize and may be have a draft of the document to be sent to IBF? if detailed document is too early to draft out, perhaps we can have the main bullet items?

Originally posted by kwun
so.........

anybody care to summarize and may be have a draft of the document to be sent to IBF? if detailed document is too early to draft out, perhaps we can have the main bullet items?

I'll make an attempt and email you the draft as an attachment (Words), hopefully before the end of next week.

thanks Loh!!