Cheaters & Their Tactics

[Break-My-String]

CHEATERS! You hate them! But you've got to play them!

Lots of times during a competitve match or a tournament without judges, you encounter the cheaters!

Besides outright bad calls (ie/ calling OUT when the shuttle CLEARLY is IN), illegal flick or drive serves (ie/ head of the racquet is clearly above the hand or waist), what are some of the tactics you've noticed hard-core cheaters use?

1) When the shuttle is cleared deep & high and will land inches IN from the back line, the player will deliberately place/move one of his foot close to where the shuttle will land but in front of the shuttle blocking your view, and then calling the shot OUT!

2) There was a men's dbls team who always tried to get a "third serve" after losing the second serve in an intense/long rally thinking you might be tired or confused.

[Dill]

Just plain adding points is a firm favourite

[taneepak]

That is why you must use umpires in tournaments. Without an umpire or at least a third party to referee a match, disputes are bound to arise. In a hotly contested crucial point, our judgement can be less than neutral. If there is no umpire then there must be an element of trust; and if you feel you have been had time and again, then don't ever play with them again and tell them why.

[Mikie]

Well, you always have you own part of court to cheat in... ;) Let like cure like!

[taneepak]

Sometimes I team up with new partners and some of them do cheat in broad daylight! But I do over-rule their call and tell the opposition that the shot is in, unless I truly believe that it is out.
There are also players who call good shots out in a tongue-in-the-cheek manner. If you dispute his call, he would say he was only joking; but if you do not challenge him, he gets away with it.

[kwun]

here is another type of cheaters.

on normal shared gyms. everybody takes turns to play, every turn everybody can play one game and then they get out and wait for their next turn.

there are these 4 guys in my local gym who reguarly cheats on their scores. they'd play a whole game, proceed to switch court and play second one, when asked, they'll say they are switch sides at 8. i asked them what score they are at. 12-10. then one side proceed to win 6 rallies in a roll, and then i asked them. 14-10. and then i went off played in another court, 10 mins later, they are still playing.

and once i thought everybody who plays badminton are supposed to be ladies and gentlemen. i guess there are always bad and rotten oranges in the basket.

[unregistered]

yup its true.. but.. sicne its only a social game lets just clsoe 1 eye and enjoy the game.. it can be bearble right?? ive seen illegal serves where the racket head is abve the head while serving.. steppin on line durin my club competition.. but sicne its not of a professional game ppl just clsoe 1 eye...

[Gollum]

I've seen some dodgy tactics in league games. This is probably the worst level of competition for cheating, because we're good enough to be very competitive but NOT good enough to have umpires/line judges.

One match I played in went to about 11-10 in the 3rd game. Our opponents then just added a point to their score, making it 11-11, which we politely contested. We had been calling score for the whole game, and they had not called score at all. They disagreed, so we had to let it go. We reached 14-14 and stayed there for 4 service rounds, before they won 15-14.

Another match player I know likes to invent obscure rules just to irritate his opponents, like "you can't warm up with clubnight players before a match". He used to be an excellent player, but his skills are decreasing and he seems at the same time to become more sneaky and miserable.

Other annoying habits include faulty drive serves, serving before I'm ready and "double motion" on service.

[coops241180]

aye - league games are the worse - highly competitive, and nothing you can do to prevent it happening - apart from rely on mental strength and a tiny bit of belief in karma :o)

at the end of the day people who cheat are usually bad enough as it is and need to cheat to win - if you stay focused and play your game they will make mistakes

however - what really pisses me off is when people accuse me of cheating - i was playing the BUSA individuals and had got really psyched up for a hard aggressive mens doubles. In the middle of a rally after a played a slightly dodgy sling (which i might have called) on of the opposite pair simply caught the shuttle - assuming that it was a fault - only the net stopped me from going over their and throttling him - to top it all of his partner was a cheat as well - calling stuff that was miles in out.

in the end we were a better pair, but we lost our heads and made far too many mistakes.. the lesson here is to focus on what your doing and not your opponent.

Neil

[Cheung]

Good point coops, but not many sling shots are illegal;)

Can't remember who does so but some BFer carries a copy of the rule book with them (is it Cooler?). This would be quite useful in England.

[quagmire]

i dont get it, how can people cheat during line calls? arent there anyone else watching? and normally here, small decent tourneys have at least 2 linesmen and an umpire to call the shots and keep score. a competitive game without an umpire and linesmen is bound to be overrun by cheating.

the biggest cheating problem is usually with illegal serves. either racket head was too high or contact point was too high. small tourneys dont usually have service judges and the umpires dont really know the rules on serving. its often left to the player.

[Dill]

Originally posted by quagmire
i dont get it, how can people cheat during line calls? arent there anyone else watching? and normally here, small decent tourneys have at least 2 linesmen and an umpire to call the shots and keep score. a competitive game without an umpire and linesmen is bound to be overrun by cheating.

Well that's it exactly Quagmire, all league matches have no referee's or umpires at all, most tournaments do not have any until the final match.

More often than not it's not the cheating that wins the game in itself, it's making you loose your focus and eventually the game that bothers most people becasue they can't let the cheating go and still think about it after it occurs and carry it through the game and subsequent matches.

The problem with the serving is that many players don't know what is and what isn't illegal so they just carry their normal syle onto the court in competitions etc.

But Churches league, although good natured and the backbone of the UK badminton league structure is rife with people who are ignorant of the rules!

[Mag]

Sometimes it isn't even the opponent that's cheating!

In the last tournament I played, one of the pool stage matches turned into a very close and long fight. I lost the first game, took second, and we switched sides at 8-7 in the third. I felt I was controlling the game at that point. Then a guy steps in as we change sides and starts coaching my opponent. It's illegal to receive coaching at this point, so I get more than a little annoyed, and finally I call out "hey -- you can't do that in the middle of a game, please leave the court NOW"... But too late. I lost the match, not because of any coaching given to my opponent, but because I was so annoyed I just couldn't get it off my mind -- I lost my concentration. In a close and tiring match like that it doesn't take much...

After the match, I asked the guy who had stepped in what he was thinking, and he just said "sorry, I didn't know it wasn't allowed". Fair enough, if it wasn't for the fact that this guy has a) played internationally and b) is a classified umpire. In other words, he knew exactly what he was doing -- cheating. :mad:

[Neil Nicholls]

Originally posted by Mag
Then a guy steps in as we change sides and starts coaching my opponent. It's illegal to receive coaching at this point.

If you were changing ends between games, it would have been a legal time at which your opponent could receive advice. Maybe the coach mistook the change of ends for an end of game, rather than middle of game 3.

[Mag]

He was very much aware of the score.

[Neil Nicholls]

Ok

for interested parties, the relevant law is 16.5

except in the intervals provided in Laws 16.2 and 16.3, no player shall be permitted to receive advice during a match.

16.2 is the breaks between games
16.3 is when the umpire or referee suspends play

[ynexfan2003]

As Dill mentioned, cheating in the Churches league is rife, but to an extent (I think) unintentional; according to the author(s) of the bumpf the unwilling Captain receives, an umpire should be appointed in these matches, but nobody bothers to appoint one.
In every league match I have played I can recall at least ten bad line calls of the opposing teams, and countless others in games I have watched. The calls they make are so blatantly false - such as calling out shots that land and remain between the doubles and singles service line, and more often, tight serves which land not much more than a foot past the service line - that they must be subjectively convinced the shots were out.
Another irritatingly frequent form of probably unintentional cheating is claiming an extra doubles serve or claiming that the opponents' service is over after the first serve is lost. This is invariably resolved by recalling at what point the service changed sides, but sometimes after a long rally won by the receiving team the second-server forgets which side he was serving on and then ensues an argument about the score.

Surprisingly, when I used to play in the Churches league in my early teens, one unwritten rule which would be always observed is that of mis-shots; whenever anyone hit the frame of his racquet, he would immediately call it a mis-shot and forfeit the rally, even if the shuttle went where the player intended.

[Sliced Drop]

There's two types of 'cheater';
Firstly there's the deliberate cheater who knowingly attempts to flaunt, circumvent or even change the laws and,
secondly there's the accidental cheater who doesn't know the rules well enough to realise that they're cheating or attempting to.

The reason why both types get away with it so often is that so many people don't really know the rules. Even at a good club you'll rarely find a rulebook in many, if any, players' bags.

When you consider the number of people globally that play the sport, this is a ludicrous situation. Too many people learn the 'rules' from other people who have never read them. I can't really think of another popular sport with so much ignorance amongst it's players.

I propose that we all try and do something to counteract this. If everyone printed a copy of the rules, got them bound at Kinkos (or other copyshop). and donated them to the club where they usually play, we could make a dent in the problem.

[wood_22_chuck]

In some drop-ins that I go, this older player starts preparing for a forehand serve by holding the birdie in his left hand, and bringing in back to his right side. He turns away, obscuring the birdie, then jams the handle butt in the birdie (plastic) and reams it open. Then flick serve quickly.

Naturally the flight path is abnormal, so it curves and goes in when it's headed out.

I'm normally merciful on high serves, but in this case, I just stood back a couple feet, wait for the birdie to stabilize, and then BLAST back every single time.

Another (different) older player likes to look out to the side, like he's still waiting for something, then very quickly serves it in an attempt to catch you un-ready.

Okay, same strategy. The moment he has the birdie, I wait in a ready position, then BLAST back. Since he's looking out the side, he's never ready to receive a quick paced return. He's stopped doing that to me now. hehehehhe :D

-dave

[JChen99]

Cheating is not preventable unless there are line judges and/or referees around. I just got a question here. I was coaching the Highschool during provincial qualifyings last week. And during one of the matches the opponents were calling the bird out even though it was CLEARLY in (it was a doubles game and the bird was clearly landing within singles lines then bouncing out) I was aside watching this but I wasn't sure if I could've said anything about it (being coach and all) but I didn't at that point. We lost that game because both of my players got too annoyed and were then not making good choices on their shots. So AM I allowed to say anything about it? or is it up to the players to call someone over to line judge?

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
Okay, same strategy. The moment he has the birdie, I wait in a ready position, then BLAST back. Since he's looking out the side, he's never ready to receive a quick paced return. He's stopped doing that to me now. hehehehhe :D

-dave
haha Dave you meanie... shouldn't pick on old people... even if they do cheat. Be merciful and at least blast the shot somewhere else :p

[ttktom]

No i Play it Competively on our badminton league. :)

It's gets worse some of the line calls are bad I play with my dad who does sometimes do some dodgy calls so sometimes i overrule him.

[ttktom]

No the worst cheats are the older people here :mad: i've had an arguement with one older guy about 68 he was calling shots out when they were about 1-2 inches in so i asked fora let and he had a go at me so i overruled him and we played some lets

[bighook]

I have had some experience where the ladder format of 4 players where the top player with combined scores from all 3 games then moves up the next week to play a higher group while the 2nd and 3rd stay in that ladder position while the 4th place player moves down.I am playing my best for all three matches while another deliberately plays poor and then well when it benefits his score .Most annoying because of course they get their not on honest merit in the spirit of the game.Of course the following week when I move up the ladder I am forced to play with this player again to face the same tactics when they can't move forward due to ability level.Another thing that bugs me are other players who are sitting behind you who make calls for your opponent putting your own honesty and integrity in question when in fact it is only truly yourself who has the best view because of the unobstructed view of where the cork strikes.I myself in all honesty try to make the correct call and keep score and I know of many who try to exploit that fact by questioning this to throw my focus off.Dirty pool I know.That is where sportsmanship comes in.I also correct calls from my partner when they are clearly a mistake.I know that with some people I have to anounce the score on every point and 1st or 2nd server to keep the peace where parties constantly become confused or question every point. It seems this is the only way to keep everyone truly happy sometimes when emotions and egos are running high.The other cheat is the drive serve clearly above the first finger down the center line and those who step forward and serve at the same time giving no clear indication of the start of serve.The most bizzare cheating I ever experienced was at a tournament where an elderly man in his sixties or seventies who was still using the illegal s serve where you strike the feathers and not the cork making the bird literally tumble all the way across the net.Everyone just told me he was a fixture in the badminton community and that I should just deal with it as his other skills were in decline and to just humble the guy and not make a matter out of it.I finally managed to return this serve by waiting till the bird had finally stopped spinning near the floor.I know sometimes passion for the game makes this cheating thing appear when it isn't as well.

[other]

eheeehe.....cheating...i was keeping score to myself for a league game for our third pair...and we were about to serve out for the game........and consider my suprise when they carried on....got to 14-14 and managed to lose.....oh well..no harm done..we won anyway

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by kwun
here is another type of cheaters.

on normal shared gyms. everybody takes turns to play, every turn everybody can play one game and then they get out and wait for their next turn.

there are these 4 guys in my local gym who reguarly cheats on their scores. they'd play a whole game, proceed to switch court and play second one, when asked, they'll say they are switch sides at 8. i asked them what score they are at. 12-10. then one side proceed to win 6 rallies in a roll, and then i asked them. 14-10. and then i went off played in another court, 10 mins later, they are still playing.

and once i thought everybody who plays badminton are supposed to be ladies and gentlemen. i guess there are always bad and rotten oranges in the basket.

Agree.

Last night, decided to went back to my old college club to meet some old friends. Everything was good, until this group joined. They signed in every single time slots on the white board. Therefore, they kept playing even though, there were another 30+ ppl are waiting (gym only has 4 courts).

When I found this, I went up to tell them about the club rulez. Then, this lady (ok, trying my best, not using the b...... word) started to yell at me:

1. Who are you? I don't think u are the officer.

2. What rulez? Where did u print it? I don't know.

3. What about I want to play with different group of friends each time?

4. Hey, wait, ok. Just wait for ur own turn.

I was really pissed, and answered like this:

1. I am nobody, but just someone respect others, and will definitely feel guilty to enjoy my 2 hrs playing span, while forcing 30+ others waiting for extra hrs.

2. We are mature enough, I don't think we need to act like little baby, who had to be taught about what means "respect to others" and "share".

3. You want to play with different groups, then, wait for ur next round. There are tons of groups never get a chance even for 1 game, but had to watch the same 4 of u doing over and over.

4. Yeah, I waited for my turn and my extra turn, and extra extra turns for quite a while, thnx for 4 of u. So, u can complete ur current game (ok, fine, some smart ppl do NOT know the rulez and respect), and please get off the court!

There were about 10 others were cheering for me, as I clearly raised my voice later on. They were like, "yeah, we just dont want to point to your face, thnx for this buddy speak out for all of us!".

[LazyBuddy]

Also, some ppl tend to call "not ready", almost every single time, he missed a serve return...

[other]

heh.........u just have to ask "ready" evvery time you serve to them:)

[donnie]

I saw an interesting way of gaining an advantage with a singles service at a regional tournament. The server would stand just in front of the back doubles service line and wait for the receiver to assume his ready position. Then the server would take two steps forward, pause for one to two seconds and then deliver his serve. On some serves he would take two long steps and on others two shorter steps. This tactic allowed the server to be in control of the distance between server and receiver as the receiver did not have time to adjust his ready position before the serve was delivered. The receiver is the one who should be in control of the distance that separates the server's and receiver's court position.

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by donnie
The server would stand just in front of the back doubles service line and wait for the receiver to assume his ready position. Then the server would take two steps forward, pause for one to two seconds and then deliver his serve. On some serves he would take two long steps and on others two shorter steps.

If I am the receiver, I won't care about what he does. If he moves, I will re-adjust my position. If I am not ready, I am not ready.

To me, both server and receiver need to be ready. Not just 1 side used up all the time, and assume others could be ready in .01 sec.

[quagmire]

Originally posted by donnie
I saw an interesting way of gaining an advantage with a singles service at a regional tournament. The server would stand just in front of the back doubles service line and wait for the receiver to assume his ready position. Then the server would take two steps forward, pause for one to two seconds and then deliver his serve. On some serves he would take two long steps and on others two shorter steps. This tactic allowed the server to be in control of the distance between server and receiver as the receiver did not have time to adjust his ready position before the serve was delivered. The receiver is the one who should be in control of the distance that separates the server's and receiver's court position.

im not sure if what the server is doing is legal but if it is, im sure during the server's pause after he takes the 2 steps, the receiver can raise his hand in front of him signalling that hes not ready and readjust his position on the court. this is because technically, the serve only started after the 2 steps. you have to be in a stationary position during serving.

[quagmire]

Originally posted by JChen99
Cheating is not preventable unless there are line judges and/or referees around. I just got a question here. I was coaching the Highschool during provincial qualifyings last week. And during one of the matches the opponents were calling the bird out even though it was CLEARLY in (it was a doubles game and the bird was clearly landing within singles lines then bouncing out) I was aside watching this but I wasn't sure if I could've said anything about it (being coach and all) but I didn't at that point. We lost that game because both of my players got too annoyed and were then not making good choices on their shots. So AM I allowed to say anything about it? or is it up to the players to call someone over to line judge?

haha Dave you meanie... shouldn't pick on old people... even if they do cheat. Be merciful and at least blast the shot somewhere else :p

provincial qualifiers without linesmen? hmmm... thats bad. not just because of cheating but the level of play wont really improve much especially when the factor that wins you games arent playing skills but your ability to weasel in points.

as for the question, as coach you should have the prerogative to submit a protest to the committee organizing the event. and the organizers shouldnt have held a provincial qualifiers without enough manpower in the first place. can you hold a division basketball match without referees?

[Break-My-String]

I remember there was this guy who would make a loud "choo" sound every time he made an overhead shot.

I did not know if he was trained to "exhale when exerting a force", or was it a way of hiding the sound when his racquet contacted the shuttle, thus you can't tell by listening if the shot was a smash or a drop.

[cappy75]

Or loud grunts a la Monica Seles:p.


Originally posted by Break-My-String
I remember there was this guy who would make a loud "choo" sound every time he made an overhead shot.

I did not know if he was trained to "exhale when exerting a force", or was it a way of hiding the sound when his racquet contacted the shuttle, thus you can't tell by listening if the shot was a smash or a drop.

[wood_22_chuck]

That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

[other]

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

best thing to do is to finish the shot first....then they can decide to carry on the acting or keep playing...or pick the shuttle off the ground

[kwun]

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

crafty indeed....

[RealMad]

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

Sorry man, but that's funny. I'd love to pull that one on some poor soul.... :D

[Winex West Can]

Originally posted by wood_22_chuck
That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

Crafty but illegal according to the rules...Rule 13.5 It is a fault, if, in play, a player deliberately distracts an opponent by any action such as shouting or making gestures;

[RealMad]

Originally posted by Winex West Can
Crafty but illegal according to the rules...Rule 13.5 It is a fault, if, in play, a player deliberately distracts an opponent by any action such as shouting or making gestures;

Damn, really? Oh well, I think it's worth the point for a good "psyche-out".

[Joanne]

I played against a guy before. He was the one who asked to play with me, so I agreed. While we were playing he called many of my shots out. I didn't argue as I didn't like his atittude and just wanted to end the game fast. I wasn't really caring if I lost or won, with atittudes like these kind of people it makes me lose heart to make an effort in that game (unless it's a real competition of course! But then again areal competitions will have linesmen...). But mind you, I was still giving my game a bit of effort.

Last straw came when his racquet TOUCHED the shuttle and it landed out. It WOULD have landed in if he had not TOUCHED it. I saw what happened clearly, but guess what he did next? He yelled, "Out!". My friend protested too but I just said nevermind. I gave the game to him then since he obviously wanted to win so badly. What can I say? Some people are just... :rolleyes:

[cappy75]

Wow! That's too blatant. For games like these, especially when he asked you to play with him... it's better to assert yourself and set him straight.

I won't let people like that get away as easily if I have to play them in clubs regularly. It's alright to let it slide occasionally to test your focus, in fact don't even expect fun to be in the equation when playing against cheaters.

Only reason I see in playing with them is just for the challenge and mental training. In this case, one should focus and go all out (while trying not to get too emotionally involved).


Originally posted by Joanne
I played against a guy before. He was the one who asked to play with me, so I agreed. While we were playing he called many of my shots out. I didn't argue as I didn't like his atittude and just wanted to end the game fast. I wasn't really caring if I lost or won, with atittudes like these kind of people it makes me lose heart to make an effort in that game (unless it's a real competition of course! But then again areal competitions will have linesmen...). But mind you, I was still giving my game a bit of effort.

Last straw came when his racquet TOUCHED the shuttle and it landed out. It WOULD have landed in if he had not TOUCHED it. I saw what happened clearly, but guess what he did next? He yelled, "Out!". My friend protested too but I just said nevermind. I gave the game to him then since he obviously wanted to win so badly. What can I say? Some people are just... :rolleyes:

[Brave_Turtle]

Guys I don't know if it is consider cheating but I always try to blow the shuttle out of the court when it is tight to the line.

[cappy75]

While it's in the air or on the floor:p?

Originally posted by Brave_Turtle
Guys I don't know if it is consider cheating but I always try to blow the shuttle out of the court when it is tight to the line.

[JChen99]

Originally posted by Brave_Turtle
Guys I don't know if it is consider cheating but I always try to blow the shuttle out of the court when it is tight to the line.
It's fun to do that once in a while when you're playing against friends cuz everyone gets a good laugh afterwards, but sometimes when you're playing against ppl that are more "serious"... you can get yelled at XD

[Joanne]

Originally posted by cappy75
Wow! That's too blatant. For games like these, especially when he asked you to play with him... it's better to assert yourself and set him straight.

I won't let people like that get away as easily if I have to play them in clubs regularly. It's alright to let it slide occasionally to test your focus, in fact don't even expect fun to be in the equation when playing against cheaters.

Only reason I see in playing with them is just for the challenge and mental training. In this case, one should focus and go all out (while trying not to get too emotionally involved).

Oh I can assure you that was the first and last time he ever played with me. He asked for a 2nd game but I declined politely. At least I THINK it was politely. I don't like to play with people who cheat, but this time it was SO obvious and he still lied! :mad: No way am I going to waste my energy trying to beat him, unless it's a real competition.

I was paying for the court too, my friend was waiting for the game to finish to play with me. Reason I went to play that day was to have fun, not get angry and frustrated. ;)

[tylercruz]

The club I go to is full of mostly casual players, but there is a lot of competitiveness in them nonetheless. With the lesser skilled players, I believe they just make extremely bad calls (Out when it's obviously in - by like a foot hah - and they still argue when I bring it up, so I let it go) because they don't really know a birdie from a net. So I let it go, as it just give me more competition. However, some of the better players sometimes make bad calls, and I believe it's because they are almost subcontiously trying to win... they know the rules, and I think they know they are wrong, but...

[LazyBuddy]

Originally posted by Joanne
Reason I went to play that day was to have fun, not get angry and frustrated. ;)

Very true.

Sometimes, I just try to avoid argument with such ppl. If they really want to win a game by crazy calls, but not real skill, let them be like that, one day, they will know.

[Break-My-String]

Here's something I noticed (which is similar to another thread)...

A shuttle landed onto a court near the front service line. Clearly, the players who had the shuttle in their court can see the shuttle on the floor, but kept on playing.

When they lost the rally, they demanded a re-serve because "they didn't see the shuttle until the last shot that cause them to lose the rally". :eek:

Had they won the rally, they probably would have said "the shuttle did not affect their rally". :rolleyes:

In the long-run, whether you are winning or losing a rally, it is ALWAYS better to stop and re-serve versus someone (really) stepping onto the shuttle and permanently injuring themselves. :D

Cheers!

[armortec800]

I have known a few players who play regularly with me, serving higher than the rule allow. But they are not changing and don't bother to correct it, worst case is some don't know about it. I usually do not bother them anymore. I do not consider they are cheating. I just enjoy the sport.
Like golf, you gotta know the rules well. Badminton rules are only a few leaflets of A4 pages. So read it well.


i dont get it, how can people cheat during line calls? arent there anyone else watching? and normally here, small decent tourneys have at least 2 linesmen and an umpire to call the shots and keep score. a competitive game without an umpire and linesmen is bound to be overrun by cheating.

the biggest cheating problem is usually with illegal serves. either racket head was too high or contact point was too high. small tourneys dont usually have service judges and the umpires dont really know the rules on serving. its often left to the player.

[Dill]

Here's something I noticed (which is similar to another thread)...

A shuttle landed onto a court near the front service line. Clearly, the players who had the shuttle in their court can see the shuttle on the floor, but kept on playing.

When they lost the rally, they demanded a re-serve because "they didn't see the shuttle until the last shot that cause them to lose the rally". :eek:

Had they won the rally, they probably would have said "the shuttle did not affect their rally". :rolleyes:

In the long-run, whether you are winning or losing a rally, it is ALWAYS better to stop and re-serve versus someone (really) stepping onto the shuttle and permanently injuring themselves. :D

Cheers!

In our club the point would always be replayed, as soon as someone notices the shuttle coming onto the court it's good practice to let the other side know, courtesy if anything but you wouldn't like to sprain an ankle after tripping over after standing on a shuttle?

It's just common sense really

[LazyBuddy]

Just finished a local tourny the past weekend. In general, I love it and did fairly ok after some hard fight. However, the last MD match really pissed me off, when I observed the following from my opponents:

1. Keep put "bonus" to their own scores, and lower ours. Fine, once or twice, might because they forgot, but almost every single rally??? If I did not argue, they might win by a score of 35 : -25 or something. :confused:

2. The most "popular" way of cheating, as the line calls. Fine, maybe everyone can make a bad call due to the view angle. However, once my smash landed inside at least 1-2 inches, 1 guy just kicked it out, while his partner immediately called it "out"! I was like, why do u just pick it up, throw it back to me, and say I miss the shot? :mad:

3. Back to the scoring: they had 9 pts, before serve (confirmed score right before we got continued). They won the next rally, then, the guy shouted "12...." Oh my god, I feel like I was playing basketball, as there's something like a 3 pointer. Or, this guy is super old, can't even remember a score like 5 sec ago.

I was a bit frustrated after this bs going on and on. Once after the "kicking outside" incident, I almost just slam my racket, and chase them to the other side. My partner held me back, and calm me down. We just smash everything throughout the game from then on, and beat them up. Still, I feel very much pissed from that. :(

[cheongsa]

Hey LB,

Take it easy. People who cheat so blatantly cannot be very good. Just play your game, and keep score after every rally. If they protest, just get the organizer to ask a non-player to step in to keep score.

[ViningWolff]

I see a lot cheating on line calls and it drives me nutz.

The one doubles tourney this guy called several that we could see were way in ( and guy on the sideline even said an audible "what?")

So on the next smash I drilled him in the chest and asked "you going to call that one out too?"

Think he realized I were marginally irritable with him... He was marginally better, but any chance I got , he wore the shuttle.



I also tend to call my score really clearly every point as in a tourney not to long ago I know I had four points shaved. I simply don't put up with it anymore.

As for lines, c'mon, the last thing I need to worry about are lines. One of the top ranked players talked about "strategic cheating". Well, if I were ever to the level to actually give him a run for his money and he pulled that, I'd be visiting him on his side of the court.

I try my best to call lines as honest as possible. I even give guys the benefit of the doubt and say "close enough".

[__Lam]

grr.. makes me angry thinking about cheaters. This pair of noobs i played were so arrogant and stupid. this was a while back but they had top end racquets, and everything, acted like pro badminton players when they didnt even know the lines. Like they thought the singles side lines also aplied to doubles when serving, grr makes me so mad and they always call outs when theyre clearly in by at least 1 feet but slide out. I hit a hard drive down the middle and their combination was so bad, they just stood there and watch the bird fly by, it landed 2 feet in but slid out about 4 feet, they called out, i was so frustrated.. they also cheat themselves 3 points. But didnt matter, me and my partner still won 15-6 hehehe.. and when we started to beat them really badly like 12-2 they started cheating like crazy, we just let them take some points out of pity, and this one guy started swearing and swinging his racquet around. he also make a fool of himself when i decided to give him a nice high midcourt serve out of pity, he swing as hard as he can and miss it lol. he got so mad and me and my partner just laugh. :D then after the game he started to complain about his racquet and how much it sucked (lol it was an mp99) when i beat him with my crappy iso63 kekeke. i think he went to go buy a new racquet, owell he still will suck:rolleyes:

lesson:never lose your cool when ppl start cheating, itll probly put you at a disadvantage when you could beat them when you play normaly since they really must suck when they require cheating to win.

[__Lam]

That reminds me again of (yet another) pair of older players ... they popped up a half-court clear, and as I was winding up, they proceeded to shout and point behind me .... I went "huh?" and let the birdie fall and didn't play the shot.

Then they started laughing, pointing at me.

*sigh* ... whut-ever ... chalked it up to another "drop-in warrior" syndrome :D

-dave

wow that happaned to me too, some guy(he really sucked bad) started shouting and screaming to his partner (it was doubles) everytime i smashed, first time i missed, then the rest of the times after was a successful smash. i think the score was 15-2 lol it was at one of those school tourneys and everyone really sucked bad, there was only 3 other pairs that were actually a challange to us and 2 of them were from our school, we were all also friends that played against each other regularly.

[LazyBuddy]

lesson:never lose your cool when ppl start cheating, itll probly put you at a disadvantage when you could beat them when you play normaly since they really must suck when they require cheating to win.

This is very true.

We were clearly better than them, but fell behind in most of the 2nd set, as both of us were kinda lost our cool after the bs went on for the past 20 min or so. Lucky, my partner cool down himself in time, and calmed me down before i almost changed this into a boxing match ;) .

Yeah, I think I need a bit more experience, especially on the mental part.

[Break-My-String]

...I try my best to call lines as honest as possible. I even give guys the benefit of the doubt and say "close enough".

I agree! When I was playing in high school, the coach taught us...

"if you cannot see the shuttle clearly out, consider it in!" :)

Cheers!

[Super~ME!]

I agree! When I was playing in high school, the coach taught us...

"if you cannot see the shuttle clearly out, consider it in!" :)

Cheers!
...haha...from what i've seen...only like 1 out of 100 people in school tournaments take that rule seirously...or only when they benefit from it...:p

[heyphilip]

Making up scores has to be worst kind of cheating...

Playing doubles.. thought i would be clever, by shouting out the scores after each point won, 1 love, 2 love, ... when it got to 5, love, the opponents shouted out 5, 5.. me and partner was like WTF, the guy said yeah he came in at this, and you guys came in at that... OBVIOUSLY cheating.

so thought ok , want to be wise.... i ask him "whats the score now" after each point.. again and again... we were at 13, and some how came back down to 10... this guy was so lost.. and his partner being quiet about it.. i think said it all.

i was so pissed.. IN the end.. we waited.. not letting them win anymore points.. and just wanted to see how they can win this game without winning anypoints. long and high clears...we hit match point so many times.. finally he gave up and called game to us.. on his parnter's serve. hmmmmm

OK this type of player i never want to see again ever.

[LazyBuddy]

Making up scores has to be worst kind of cheating...
......
OK this type of player i never want to see again ever.


Exactly. Before playing the MD, I was actually invited by some of his players to visit his club 1 day. Even though, the club was kinda far from my house, but I was interested, as I always want to meet more ppl.

After the game, I swear I will never ever even bother to see ppl like that any more. I come to make friends, to relax, to enjoy the games, not to have a shouting match for every single point. :(

[RealMad]

Making up scores has to be worst kind of cheating...

Playing doubles.. thought i would be clever, by shouting out the scores after each point won, 1 love, 2 love, ... when it got to 5, love, the opponents shouted out 5, 5.. me and partner was like WTF, the guy said yeah he came in at this, and you guys came in at that... OBVIOUSLY cheating.

so thought ok , want to be wise.... i ask him "whats the score now" after each point.. again and again... we were at 13, and some how came back down to 10... this guy was so lost.. and his partner being quiet about it.. i think said it all.

i was so pissed.. IN the end.. we waited.. not letting them win anymore points.. and just wanted to see how they can win this game without winning anypoints. long and high clears...we hit match point so many times.. finally he gave up and called game to us.. on his parnter's serve. hmmmmm

OK this type of player i never want to see again ever.


Well if you were so far ahead of him in skill that he couldn't score on you and had to keep your score pegged to keep you from winning, you shouldn't let it bother you.

He was probably really frustrated at playing against someone so much higher than his own level.

[jerby]

i ahd a weird case on a tournament.
pre-round, no challenge, no umpire.

mens double, we were clearly winning. i lobbed, thought it was in..he called 'out' i let him have it, never mind..

second point, he was clearly in, so i disputed. he yells "well, last time you called it you got it wrong as well (meaning the incident above), so now you must be wrong as well" and demanded it was out. did a re-serve. smashed him out.

[madbad]

i ahd a weird case on a tournament.
pre-round, no challenge, no umpire.

mens double, we were clearly winning. i lobbed, thought it was in..he called 'out' i let him have it, never mind..

second point, he was clearly in, so i disputed. he yells "well, last time you called it you got it wrong as well (meaning the incident above), so now you must be wrong as well" and demanded it was out. did a re-serve. smashed him out.

Huh?? If HE was clearly in, why would you dispute it? :confused:
Also, wasn't your opponent the one that called it out the first time? Why was he saying YOU got the call wrong? Hmmm.. very confusing :confused: :confused:

[sac_man]

I run into this problem from time to time, onething always tick me off is that when playing doubles, an ( even) guy will stand in odd position calling the even number.( no common sense !!! )

If you are an even guy (first server ) and you stand in left side (odd position), the score would be odd number( score ) 1,3,5,7,9 etc....

To minimize potential conflict:
1. Remember who is first server.
2. Call out the scores.

hope this helps!

[smash_master]

I run into this problem from time to time, onething always tick me off is that when playing doubles, an ( even) guy will stand in odd position calling the even number.( no common sense !!! )

If you are an even guy (first server ) and you stand in left side (odd position), the score would be odd number( score ) 1,3,5,7,9 etc....

To minimize potential conflict:
1. Remember who is first server.
2. Call out the scores.

hope this helps!

uh for doubles it doesnt matter if your even or odd you can serve odd from the even side or even from the odd side...it kinda doesnt exist in doubles. player on the right always servers 1st his partner (2nd serve) always serves on the other court (which ever his partner didnt server from) so say we started and the scores 2 all i get serve and then we win a point so i change to the other service court so now its 3-2 1st serve but we lose that my partner now has his serve but hes on the right (even side) but the score is still 3-2.

The most common form i have seen is just bad calls they will call it out when its in or when it touches the line there like out, at time it kills me to watch that happen im like that was in yet they just proceed with serving im like wtf!? oh well i let it go and pound the next shot right back at them. as for adding points i have seen this a few times usually i just overrule it and its fine as for other stuff one guy always serves illegal yet it hardly goes over the net so usually im like meh whatever.

[jerby]

Huh?? If HE was clearly in, why would you dispute it? :confused:
Also, wasn't your opponent the one that called it out the first time? Why was he saying YOU got the call wrong? Hmmm.. very confusing :confused: :confused:
yeah, imagine how i fellt. i'm sorry for phrasing it wrong.

1e point: i lobbed inside, he said it was out. little argument, i let him have his way.
2e point: i lobbed at teh same spot, inside again, he said it was out. more argument, and he said:'the first time you were wrong as well, so now you must be wrong too' ..weird, weird boy..

[ron scicluna]

Anthony and myself play Ray and Dave every monday and they constantly call out all of our line calls.I've never known such bad losers in my life.Mind you the fact that we slaughter them most weeks makes them second rate players .The only consilation is that look of defeat on there face at the end of every game.Bring it on boys

[hiroisuke]

Some forms of cheating I've seen:

1) Ppl sitting near our lines so that we'll be wary of hitting them when going for shots near the sidelines.

2) The shot that went in but they called it out 'cause they didn't see it clearly thingy.

3) Messing up the score so that they get extra points.

4) There was this game in league finals (JV) where we were playing this mixed team from an upper division, and it was TOUGH. We won the first 15-12, I think. Second game, though, I know it was the girl who served first on their side. Yet, when they had 14, it was the guy who was serving from their right (our left). They won that rally. I talked to their coach about it right after, but they said that it "doesn't matter." So what happened during the third rally was that we kicked their butts.:D

5) Serving above waist. To make it even more difficult at this particular open gym, the nets were low! Talk about having dangerous drive serves...I had to duck much lower than usual in case they drove it.

So far, haven't met a cheater that won an overall match by cheating. The only ones I've met that cheat have lost, and those that are better than me...don't need to cheat. :p

[LazyBuddy]

Some forms of cheating I've seen:

1) Ppl sitting near our lines so that we'll be wary of hitting them when going for shots near the sidelines.

2) The shot that went in but they called it out 'cause they didn't see it clearly thingy.

3) Messing up the score so that they get extra points.

4) There was this game in league finals (JV) where we were playing this mixed team from an upper division, and it was TOUGH. We won the first 15-12, I think. Second game, though, I know it was the girl who served first on their side. Yet, when they had 14, it was the guy who was serving from their right (our left). They won that rally. I talked to their coach about it right after, but they said that it "doesn't matter." So what happened during the third rally was that we kicked their butts.:D

5) Serving above waist. To make it even more difficult at this particular open gym, the nets were low! Talk about having dangerous drive serves...I had to duck much lower than usual in case they drove it.

So far, haven't met a cheater that won an overall match by cheating. The only ones I've met that cheat have lost, and those that are better than me...don't need to cheat. :p

1. Unless the ppl sitting there are ur opponent's friends, otherwise, I don't think that's cheating. But if a friend willing do put him/herself in such dangerous condition to help me to win, I don't mind to have such friends. :D

2. If ppl made a wrong call because s/he did not see it clearly (light, angle, etc), then, I don't think that's cheating, as it's very much un-intentional.

5. To counter attack the drive serves, drive it back. ;)

[Cheung]

Some forms of cheating I've seen:

1) Ppl sitting near our lines so that we'll be wary of hitting them when going for shots near the sidelines.

Ohh very dangerous. I would definitely still go for the shot;) They are engaging in risky practices:D

[Wurmer]

I think that when you play in a club you get to know the players and you know who's cheating. That's what happened in my club, there was player that really needeed to take care of his ego so it's important to him that he wins most of his game. Eventually, the word got around and one of the people responsible for the club warned him. He still does it but much less or at least it's a lot least obvious.

[BlaZe]

There was a guy I played in a tournament who would shout and look at me like he's gonna kill me every time he would score a point. Although I felt I was better than him, he eventually won which left me with a huge frustration after the match ended. I am a rather reserved person on court, and his show did affect me. Especially when he would shout and behave like there is no doubt on line calls. This made me lose my focus and i played in a style i wasn't used to. I remember i offered him a lot of easy kills.

Actually it was the first time i met a guy like him (i mean so aggressive) and when i rethink of this match, the frustration is still there.. I had won the first game rather easily before i collapsed mentally. The guy didn't play better in the following games, but i became angry about both myself for losing focus and about him for being unsportsmanlike.

I don't think we're allowed to shout so much on a court are we?

Anyway, i guess those experiences help you improve your mental strength. BTW does anybody have any tricks to get one's focus back and improve the mental?

[cooler]

all cheaters i know are lousy players (but not vice versa tho:D)

[ViningWolff]

There are couple top ranked Canadian players that are known to call bad lines.

[hiroisuke]

1. Unless the ppl sitting there are ur opponent's friends, otherwise, I don't think that's cheating. But if a friend willing do put him/herself in such dangerous condition to help me to win, I don't mind to have such friends. :D

2. If ppl made a wrong call because s/he did not see it clearly (light, angle, etc), then, I don't think that's cheating, as it's very much un-intentional.

5. To counter attack the drive serves, drive it back. ;)
1) Well, it provides for less than ideal playing conditions: What if you're in a rush and have to step slightly out of the court? Or perhaps dive for a desperate shot? You'd have to run them over.

2) Well, the thing is, if it's a close call, and they didn't see it go out, they just saw that the birdie ended up out, I don't think that they should be allowed to call it out. They don't have any proof that it ever hit the ground outside of the boundaries, they only see that it ended up out.

6) Problem is, these are reaaaaly low nets. Kinda hard. Still possible, but the problem is only aggravated by the ppl with illegally high serves. It's only a casual open gym, but it makes it more difficult to retain the court.



Ohh very dangerous. I would definitely still go for the shot;) They are engaging in risky practices:D
It's possible that I'd get hurt too...and they'd get pissed. So I think it'd be best to make a rule that they can't sit in-between courts...so little room as there is anyways.


I think that when you play in a club you get to know the players and you know who's cheating.
I think so too. I try to avoid those characters if possible. No fun playing with them. I typically play with people that come with me or that I know.




There was a guy I played in a tournament who would shout and look at me like he's gonna kill me every time he would score a point. Although I felt I was better than him, he eventually won which left me with a huge frustration after the match ended. I am a rather reserved person on court, and his show did affect me. Especially when he would shout and behave like there is no doubt on line calls. This made me lose my focus and i played in a style i wasn't used to. I remember i offered him a lot of easy kills.

Actually it was the first time i met a guy like him (i mean so aggressive) and when i rethink of this match, the frustration is still there.. I had won the first game rather easily before i collapsed mentally. The guy didn't play better in the following games, but i became angry about both myself for losing focus and about him for being unsportsmanlike.

I don't think we're allowed to shout so much on a court are we?

Anyway, i guess those experiences help you improve your mental strength. BTW does anybody have any tricks to get one's focus back and improve the mental?
I guess you have to train harder and improve. However, treat any game the same way. Don't just tense up because it's a big game or the opponent is tough/annoying/mean/aggressive/murderous, etc. or become belittling/insulting/disparaging/arrogant when playing ppl of a lower level or during a less important match.

Always be ready, never let the opponent affect you (unless they make you smile for some reason: Funny? Attractive? Inspiring?) negatively, pay attention to every game, show respect even if you're not playing hard, and try to keep loose and calm.

1) Be ready, because you never know what your opponent will do, whether they were hiding their skills before, become arrogant, trying to pull illegal stuff under your nose, etc.

2) Don't let your opponent negatively affect you, because if they're trying to do that, they obviously want you to be negatively affected. Try to keep positive, have some supportive friends, etc. If they cheat, take some deep breaths, start analyzing their weaknesses, play calmly (DON'T TAKE REVENGE), and beat them. Responding with serene grace may lead to their frustration, and you have thus reversed their strategy. If you can do that, I congratulate you most heartily.

3) Always pay attention: It shows respect, keeps you sharp, prevents your opponents from cheating, and this is the only way to analyze your opponents and perhaps your partner.

4) Respect the opponents. Class is key to winning. If you can triumph without having to cheat, become angry, victory will be even sweeter. ;)
Furthermore, if they're weaker than you are, and it's just a casual match, you don't want your opponents to think that you are arrogant and condescending, it won't make anyone like you or respect you.

5) Keep loose and calm. This makes it more fun, and you'll be able to perform better, as you can now have a chance to breathe.:p

That was a long one, eh? (Not really, but if feels like it);):D:p:):eek::cool:

[treilanin]

Here are some common things that really frustrate me in my Badminton Club (we are a social club with a 5 colour ranking system): 1) Friends wanting to play together so they force their way up the ranks by harassing and verbally abusing our captain. So they can call themselves top players and refuse to play with us lesser players. The sad part is most of these so-called good players are actually quite bad. Not being able to clear, not understand standard doubles tactics and not able to move around the court at all. 2) The skipping the line system where there is a group of 5-6 people who only choose amongst themselves. So they always have one guy picking while the rest play and the person picking will skip 12-20 people on the board to get his buddies. So in a night they can play like 7-8 matches where most of us can only play 3-4. 3) Then there is the blatent, I am too slow to get to the bird so I will let it fly over my head.... and the call it out even though the bird is sitting in the court. This is while I am staring at the person who hit so there is absolutely no way for me to know if it is in or out.

[LazyBuddy]

Here are some common things that really frustrate me in my Badminton Club (we are a social club with a 5 colour ranking system): 1) Friends wanting to play together so they force their way up the ranks by harassing and verbally abusing our captain. So they can call themselves top players and refuse to play with us lesser players. The sad part is most of these so-called good players are actually quite bad. Not being able to clear, not understand standard doubles tactics and not able to move around the court at all. 2) The skipping the line system where there is a group of 5-6 people who only choose amongst themselves. So they always have one guy picking while the rest play and the person picking will skip 12-20 people on the board to get his buddies. So in a night they can play like 7-8 matches where most of us can only play 3-4. 3) Then there is the blatent, I am too slow to get to the bird so I will let it fly over my head.... and the call it out even though the bird is sitting in the court. This is while I am staring at the person who hit so there is absolutely no way for me to know if it is in or out.

1. Isn't the ranking are based on their record, rather than pointing by the managers? :eek:

2. This is very easy to deal with. If a player is still playing on the court, his/her name should NOT be used in the waiting queue.

[LazyBuddy]

1) Well, it provides for less than ideal playing conditions: What if you're in a rush and have to step slightly out of the court? Or perhaps dive for a desperate shot? You'd have to run them over.



I am not saying they should do it. All I refer is, if the ppl sitting around (spectators) not intentionally helping either side, you can't claim ur opponent is cheating. All you suppose to do, is to tell the spectators to move and keep a safe distance.

[treilanin]

1. Isn't the ranking are based on their record, rather than pointing by the managers? :eek:

2. This is very easy to deal with. If a player is still playing on the court, his/her name should NOT be used in the waiting queue.

Actually we use a captain who will raise players based on their performance so no ranking system for us. I honestly would rather have a ranking system so I know who is better and such. I was at the mid level and there were people who were definitely worse then me at the two levels above. The sad part is there are people who are so focused on their colour that they resorted to verbal harassing our captain and even accused him of being a racist. People like that really blow my mind.

What I am referring to is this :

We have this group Player 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. 1,2,3,4 are playing on court and 5 is waiting to pick.
1,2,3,4 come off court and are placed back in the queue sometimes 15-20 names down the queue.
5 has his turn to pick and skips 15-20 other names and selects 1,2,3 for a match.
1,2,3,5 come of the court.
4 has his turn to pick and skips 15-20 other names and selects 2,3,5 for a match.

Basically they are able to increase their game time by doing this. If you complain to them, then they basically scream at you and our executive can punish them if they don't see it themselves. Makes you get really frustrated... so much so I have suggested a "No ranking, No selecting system." No one has a colour and the next 4 play regardless of skill. It's a social club and there really is not attempt to improve people's play... so why does rank matter? I can play with lesser skilled people, have fun and coach them a bit to improve them. THese other players who constantly cause the problems are the ones who would hate this system the most :D

[Glacyus]

Ok, I do consider this cheating, but found it frustrating enough to post. There is this one jolly Buddha-looking gentleman in his 40s that plays at my gym. He's the loud shouter/laugher that I know you've all experienced. Only difference is this guy takes it to a whole 'nother level, it's like he just finished doing speed before each game. Every shot he makes involves a weird gesturing of the body complete with leaning and loud footsteps, and a deafening shout or laugh. To top it off he laughs after 80% of points as if he just heard the best joke of his life. It's so bad that my game suffers even when playing on adjacent courts. Imagine winding up for a smash only to hear a booming, Luciferian laugh!

[Jinryu]

Heh.

There's an older fellow at one of the gyms that I play with... he wears his shorts REAAAALY high so that he can perform illegally high serves (which are supposed to be below the waist). What are you gonna do, pull down his pants and check to see that his underwear band is equally high? XD

[Glacyus]

Supreme cheating would involve getting higher hip bone implants. Heh.

[madbad]

Heh.

There's an older fellow at one of the gyms that I play with... he wears his shorts REAAAALY high so that he can perform illegally high serves (which are supposed to be below the waist). What are you gonna do, pull down his pants and check to see that his underwear band is equally high? XD

I hope that question was rhetorical:p :p

[hiroisuke]

I hope that question was rhetorical:p :pI hope so too.:eek: WAAA!

[Gollum]

Heh.

There's an older fellow at one of the gyms that I play with... he wears his shorts REAAAALY high so that he can perform illegally high serves (which are supposed to be below the waist). What are you gonna do, pull down his pants and check to see that his underwear band is equally high? XD
The waist is not where your shorts sit anyway.

The waist is the narrow part of your torso. Shorts sit on the wider part -- the top of your pelvis.

The laws define the waist to be an imaginary line level with the lowest part of your ribs. Definitely higher than the shorts (well, except for weirdos like that old guy at your club). Service judges use the free-hanging position of your elbow as a guide.

[Dummey]

The waist is not where your shorts sit anyway.

The waist is the narrow part of your torso. Shorts sit on the wider part -- the top of your pelvis.

The laws define the waist to be an imaginary line level with the lowest part of your ribs. Definitely higher than the shorts (well, except for weirdos like that old guy at your club). Service judges use the free-hanging position of your elbow as a guide.

This rule has always bugged me because at the highschool/club level most people go by your shorts. For me, I always bag my shorts a bit because of my height and having long legs. I wish I knew about the whole elbow thing before.

[crosscourt]

I know it's not cheating in the strict sense but I'm always reluctant to give up a point that I have won from the shuttle hitting the frame of the racket.

I'm not talking about friendly games but rather competetive league games. Am I being miserably unsportsmanlike? I also ought to say that if my opponent offered me the point because he/she had hit the frame I would be reluctant to accept it.

The way I see it, if my smash hits the nettape and tumbles over there's no question that I should take the point. Why are frame shots different? They're both 'bad' shots.

[Gollum]

Am I being miserably unsportsmanlike?

No. Frame shots are perfectly legal. You are not required to hit the shuttle with the strings.

Good opponents should take advantage of frame shots. When a smash tumbles over the net, however, there really is nothing your opponents can do.

[crosscourt]

But the unwritten rule seems to be that if you win the point with a frame shot, although its legal, you ought to give up the point. Maybe this practice varies from league to league. I take it that you havent come across this?

[Gollum]

But the unwritten rule seems to be that if you win the point with a frame shot, although its legal, you ought to give up the point. Maybe this practice varies from league to league. I take it that you havent come across this?
Occasionally I have come across this, but I ignore it. Bear in mind there are a lot of very competitive league players who will take any opportunity to manipulate you. Trying to make you feel guilty and accept "unwritten rules" is one way. Often these players are old hands, getting slow and crafty, with their own biased ideas of badminton etiquette. Don't let these characters dominate you.

I don't care for unwritten rules in sport, with one general exception: behave well towards other people.

If other players don't like your good luck, that's just tough. It's similar to players who don't like drive serves, even when the serve is legal.

[hiroisuke]

Occasionally I have come across this, but I ignore it. Bear in mind there are a lot of very competitive league players who will take any opportunity to manipulate you. Trying to make you feel guilty and accept "unwritten rules" is one way. Often these players are old hands, getting slow and crafty, with their own biased ideas of badminton etiquette. Don't let these characters dominate you.

I don't care for unwritten rules in sport, with one general exception: behave well towards other people.

If other players don't like your good luck, that's just tough. It's similar to players who don't like drive serves, even when the serve is legal.

Indeed. Sore losers and painfully annoying people often try to get you for "cheating", saying things like that's not fair, or not legal, or I wasn't ready, or net shots are lets (What in the world?!), etc. That's 'cause they're overly afraid to lose. In basic, they are cowards.

The drive serve thing applies to one of my teammates (He's the guy who does the drive serve), who, when playing against an opponent, drew the rage of his opponent's coach, who kept criticizing his player (Who was losing). Finally, he started complaining about my teammate's drive serve, questioning its legality. Too bad, 'cause it was perfectly legal and he won.

Anyways, I don't follow unwritten rules unless I feel like it (respect in general, and apologizing for net shots (pros will usually do this) and hitting the opponent.

[Gollum]

Anyways, I don't follow unwritten rules unless I feel like it (respect in general, and apologizing for net shots (pros will usually do this) and hitting the opponent.

Sure. That's just good manners.

I would always acknowledge my luck, or indicate my apology for hitting an opponent with the shuttle.

But I'll still take the point, and I'll keep aiming at the opponent's body if I believe it is effective.

If the opponent becomes afraid of being hit, all the better for me (and for them. They need to learn how to cope with this).

[hiroisuke]

Sure. That's just good manners.

I would always acknowledge my luck, or indicate my apology for hitting an opponent with the shuttle.

But I'll still take the point, and I'll keep aiming at the opponent's body if I believe it is effective.

If the opponent becomes afraid of being hit, all the better for me (and for them. They need to learn how to cope with this).Yes, I agree (Hope quisitor doesn't read this :p). But unfortunately, some ppl won't apologize, or don't really care, and manners aren't required. As a result, I love it when, if they begin being ruthless and rude and start making netshots and body smashes and gloating over them or reacting to them in a negative manner, I begin to do the same shots back at them, except I DO APOLOGIZE. Winning with class. :p

[Gollum]

As Lee Jae Bok says, "respect your opponent, and you will be respected too".

[ViningWolff]

Good opponents should take advantage of frame shots. When a smash tumbles over the net, however, there really is nothing your opponents can do.


At our club, when you roll/tumble a shuttle over the net, is is customary at our little club to call the person a "prick" ( prick shot)- it's taken as compliment though. We do have to inform new member though they catch on pretty quick.

[cooler]

Heh.

There's an older fellow at one of the gyms that I play with... he wears his shorts REAAAALY high so that he can perform illegally high serves (which are supposed to be below the waist). What are you gonna do, pull down his pants and check to see that his underwear band is equally high? XD
ask him who's the nasty fella who gave him the wedgie:p His face will go red:D

[crosscourt]

My team was playing a match on thursday night and I was watching two of my teammates play. One of them is a very experienced player and the other is a 16 year old (2 senior players had to drop out). The experienced player is a father himself and he was constantly encouraging the 16 year old. The opposition won the first game, lost the second game and were losing the third game. In fact they were playing appallingly badly in the third game and I knew we were going to win. The score was something like 12-5. The rally was won when the 16 year old after covering a lot of ground, hit a poor clear that went mid-court. One of the opposition players went for a smash and mistimed the shot and completely missed the shuttle. My colleague said "Well done, good shot" and the opposition player, in a sarcastic and aggressive tone said "It wasn't a good shot, it was a bad shot by me".

There had been a few niggles before this though, so it didn't come out of the blue, but its still quite a distasteful thing to do given my teammates age. I put it down to the fact that they were losing and that they were embarrassed. We won the match though and I suppose thats the best response.

[jgao_net]

haha, i somewhat "cheat". whenever i think that a certain shot is inconcolusive (a birdie going out) or i have some doubt in my mind, i usually call it my way :D

[mettayogi]

If you play recreationally in a club, there is a price for cheating (on line calls): better players will refuse to play with you. And what's the point of cheating in a social game?

Also, you go for fun, exercise, and friendship, and end up making people (yourself or others) unhappy, just to inflate your ego?

[treilanin]

I just solve the problem a different way. If the cheater will call close line shots out I will just smash the bird into him. :)

[thatoneaznguy]

lol, I "cheat" with my friends. If it's not competitive, and no one's counting score, then we'll just play a few rallies and be like "okay, fourteen all, last shot wins it."

[jerby]

My team was playing a match on thursday night and I was watching two of my teammates play. One of them is a very experienced player and the other is a 16 year old (2 senior players had to drop out). The experienced player is a father himself and he was constantly encouraging the 16 year old. The opposition won the first game, lost the second game and were losing the third game. In fact they were playing appallingly badly in the third game and I knew we were going to win. The score was something like 12-5. The rally was won when the 16 year old after covering a lot of ground, hit a poor clear that went mid-court. One of the opposition players went for a smash and mistimed the shot and completely missed the shuttle. My colleague said "Well done, good shot" and the opposition player, in a sarcastic and aggressive tone said "It wasn't a good shot, it was a bad shot by me".
errr...that's a tad..weird...
But I take it the older man and the young gun where teaming up in a mens doubles? (to clear it up?)
because if so the opponents weren't that strong mentally...
(if I where playign against them in a real match, I'd pull out my game-face;) giving a 'shout' when I make a point, taking a bit of time to stand ready, all the tiny legal tidbits to get them out of focus.)

so either the Veteran player did the same, or he really meant to say it to the junior (who, as you say it, pulled of some good footwork..)
though, maybe, the situation would've been better if the veteran said it more quietly to his pupil:rolleyes:

though I would'nt call it cheating...as there're no rules for encouraging, or giving a shout of relief when you win a point (as long as it's not verbally abusive:o) like "yeah that's right you ****, that'll show you, you ******" or something.. just an "OK c'mon" or something....