Tony Gunawan

[Cheung]

It was discussed on TV that Tony Gunawen is the probably the best Men's Doubles player in the world.

Did they steal that line from my "Japan Open" report?
Or do I really have some analytical acumen for badminton?

[Byro-Nenium]

Don't know but i didn't see the Japan Open because SINGAPORE, didn't broadcast it. Anyhow, it would be hard to say if Tony Gunawan is the best doubles player in the world but then again, with all the other great doubles players, its hard to say eg Candra Wijaya, Sigit Budiarto, Yoo Yong Sung, Zhang Wei, Eng Hian, Halim Haryanto, Flandi Limpele, the list goes on.

Though many of them have not shown top form lately, eg Lee/Yoo, Zhang/Zhang and Flandi/Eng, they all have the capabilities to be world champions

[budi]

Tony's crosscourt is amazing..
I think he's the best double player in crosscourt (net).

[Tony Halim]

He's the most intelligent doubles player I have ever seen. His net coverage is simply AWESOME!!

[Byro-Nenium]

Agreed, especially against Zhang/Zhang at the Sudirman Cup. The winning shot was amazing. Tony plays net shots to level that i probably will never play to. Hendrawan also has some neat net shots but no one beats Tony.

[Adel]

I don't doubt your analytical acumen but whether they plagiarised your report is another matter =P

How abt doing a comparison bwt Kim Dong Moon and Tony Gunawan (spelled with 2 As btw!)? Coz the former was considered "the player of the moment" in 2000, according to the same commentators.

[david]

Tutup mulut adel
sebel deh..
Cerewet banget sih ini anak...

[Zclyh3]

Please keep in mind that Candra was MVP last year...

[Adel]

I know, I know. He deserved it too, didn't he? Great player, great person.

[Imposter]

The bug's mirror image from across the Straits.

[AS]

I think a great deal of injustice is being done to Kim Dong Moon, he is by far the best doubles player that i have in recent years. His reading of the game and explosiveness whenever he wants to step up a gear or put the pressure on is unrivalled. Evidence of that in the Malaysian Open of last year against the Chinese pairing. And he bloody looks so casual and relaxed on court, like Rexy Mainaky letting his racket drop to his ankles after having played a smash but like lightning pouncing on the reply shots. I hope i've done him some justice.

[Byro-Nenium]

david orang indonesia yah?

Koh, bilang adel diam untuk apa.........

[david]

Adel cerewet sekali.
Komentarnya panas di kuping.
Dia cewek or cowok sih?

[Cheung]

I don't mean any injustice to Kim Dong Moon. Really what I should have said clearly is (IMO) Tony is the best Men's doubles players AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT.

As an all round doubles player (inc. Mxd) then Kim is probably the best but it is difficult to gauge his form as he has played so few tournaments recently and lost to China in the Sudirman Cup. If you go on recent tournament results, the Zhang Jun or Michael Sogaard have showed more consistent form.

And YES, Kim Dong Moon showed awesome form in 1999/2000 until the Olympics crashing spectacularly early in the Mxd and losing in the Men's doubles. I was quite shocked that time. Who was he playing against in the Men's Doubles? None other than Tony Gunawen.

In the Korean Open, the Ina pairings were split and their 1st tournament with (relatively) new partners were always going to be under pressure.

[david]

BTW, it's Tony Gunawan , not Gunawen

[Byro-Nenium]

adel? cewek dari Singapura.......

[AS]

Yes but to be fair Kim was suffering from a bad back and maybe a little fatigued from all the tournaments he had won.

[Cheung]

Just bringing up this old post again:)

Had a conversation with a badminton person and that person had no special opinion on Tony G.; even rated Halim over Tony because Halim has a great smash.

What's good about Tony's play is that you don't see any special shots (apart form a few cross court netshots). It's very interesting to see a person with no obvious oustanding aspect of the game playing at the highest level. (unlike Sigit, Rexy).

IMHO ;), Tony's play shows intelligence. That's why I like his play.

[Pecheur]

Originally posted by Cheung
Just bringing up this old post again:)

IMHO ;), Tony's play shows intelligence. That's why I like his play.

That's the thing, Tony outsmarted all this opponents, that's what made him better than Candra, even KDM. To the uneducated observers: WHOO huge smash, impressive, incredible speed, cool, great reflexes WOW. Tony G didn't seem to have any of these things because he didn't need them, he read the game so damn well that he was always there so didn't seem to have the speed, always had his racquet in place (due to his ability to read the play again) so didn't need great reflexes, okay he didn't have a huge smash but it was good enough to set up.

Someone (biased Pommy, you know who you are ;)) commented about Joanne Goode had probably the best badminton brain in the game, nup, not even close I've watched a lot of her play, watch Tony G vs KDM and you'll see two of the great badminton brains at work with Tony G the obvious winner.

Someone else asked during the US Open why people thought Tony G could win the doubles at his age whilst Simon Archer couldn't win mixed at a similar age. When I thought about it at the time, my conclusion was [1] that Tony's great advantage was his brain, and that didn't really lessen as much as other physical attributes. Simon has a great hard and deceptive smash which has definately gotten worse with age. PS Tony G ended up winning mixed and I think came second in doubles? I could be wrong.

[1] Besides the fact that Tony G is one of the all time greats and Simon Archers greatest achievement (bronze Olympic medal?) wouldn't rank in Tony G's top ten ;) Sorry just stirring.

[Han]

The thing I like about Tony is he always play hard and smart and respect his partner. However, I would not put Tony in the same level as Rexy or even Chandra. It's important to find a right partner and Tony found one when teamed up with Chandra as they macthed each other perfectly. Tony did team up with Halim earlier and did not achieve much so was Sigit(with Halim) and came out short handed. So far, only Chandra did well teaming up with both Tony and Sigit, so Chandra should deserve better recognition. The Korean pairs are quite unique, on one hand there's a speedly Lee/Yoo and on the other there's power pair of Ha/Kim. Korea did try to mix and match among these 4 players and the result was unsatisfactory. In my opinion, in double, it's the team work that makes the players great, not that much of individual skill(or else Sigit would be on top of the list but Sigit has atitude problem especially when he teamed up with Halim).

[reenignelivic]

Agree with Cheung and Pecheur

I am admired with smart player too. At the place I play ball, there are lots of players with some amasing skills (quick footwork, strong fhand/bhand, crazy smash). However, the best player I find is a retired Taiwan national player. He is over 80. This old man does not run fast, does not smash like a young kid. What he does is using his brain and wrist. He practised with me couple times and he always put the shuttle in the unbelivable positions. When he cleared to the back, I didn't see him swing the racket hard but the shuttle passed me quickly. His drops were incredible too. I can never tell from his body movement and the shuttle projection the difference between his clear shot and his net drop, until the shuttle hit the ground....

Amasingly, he told me he couldn't see the shuttle clear any more. The blurry shalldow of the shuttle and the movement of the opponent are the only elements he needs.

He is a player I consider good and smart. =D

[jkusmanto]

If we talk about double. I personally can't say that X is the best, Y is not best as X, or Z is ....... bla..bla..bla.....

I agree with Han. Team work and the right parthner are very important in double.
If we look back, we can find so many great double playes at their time.
Let's see :
-Ade Chandera / Christian (Ina)
-Tjun Tjun / Johan Wahyudi (Ina)
-Kartono / Heriyanto (Ina)
-Park Joo Bong / Kim Moon Shu (Kor)
-Li Yong Bo / Tian Bing Yi (Chi)
-Rexy Mainaky / Ricky Sibagja (Ina)
-Tjie Sun Kit / Yap Kim Hook (May)
(You can add the others to the list)

My opinion :
At this present moment, there are so many pairs sit the same level of quality. They can beat each other, who fit and ready can be the winner.
Again, It is hard to say X is the best.

[Cheung]

Han,

The period when Tony and Halim first partnered up was relatively new in terms of international tournaments.

I think Tony learnt a lot from that period playing with Chandra. Doesn't it mean anything that after the Tony/Chandra partnership was split, Tony still went on to win the WC with Halim?

In any case, Tony did amazingly well partnering Rexy in 2000 TC finals and also an ABC (I think). He's played with 3 partners and done well. Chandra has had two partners and done well;) (Chandra is pretty cool as well)

But that's getting off the theme.

Would an 'intelligent' player be able to adapt to different partners? Certainly, Tony G now plays with a new partner in men's doubles and still has been able to get to the q/f of major tournaments. I think that's no mean feat (sorry, no disrespect to his partner).

[Loh]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Byro-Nenium
[B]Don't know but i didn't see the Japan Open because SINGAPORE, didn't broadcast it. ]

Sorry you missed it, but the Finals were telecast live and I reported on some events here.

I also thought Adel is Singaporean, but to all my Indonesian friends, "tolong cakap inggeris" - Please speak English, for the benefit of all here who do not understand Indonesian or Malay. Hope Adel will not respond in Korean, which he has taken a liking to the last time we interacted!

Tony Gunawan impressed me when he partnered Chandra Wijaya and won not a few internationals. But since his departure for the US and his subsequent new partnership with Malaythong (of Laotian origin?), we have since seen little of him, unfortunately. The last time I saw him in action was during last year's Singapore Open. But Chandra went on to win this year's All England with Sigit.

I thought based on current form and performance, Kim Dong Moon is more consistent and impressive although he made less appearance because of his recent injury.

It may surprise you, but I consider Rexy Mainaky's partner, Ricky Subagia, a fantastic doubles player. I can't forget his lightning and deceptive service and his explosive movements.

But, if you trace back to the All England records, among the Indonesian doubles players, none can beat the achievement of Tjun Tjun and Wahjudi, whom I had the privilege to watch them in Singapore, and who won six times from 1974 to 1980, somehow missing the crown in 1976.

But, so far, none can better the record of the great Dane, Finn Kobbero, who partnered Jorgen Hansen six times and Poul Erik Nielsen once, to win the All England Men's Doubles seven times in 1955 and 1956 and from 1960 to 1964.

[Cheung]

Just to point out that the original post was in 2001.

At that time, Kim Dong Moon had played very few tournaments so current form was unknown.

And the term 'best' player was meant to say, 'best men's doubles player at that moment in time'! ie beginning of 2001. Hope that clears up any confusion with regards to comparisions of past and present players;)

So the Japan Open, I and BN was referring to was in 2001!!

[Loh]

My humble apologies, Cheung and all. I thought we are still in 2003! 2001, but the names are still very familiar despite the years!

[Han]

One thing for sure, the following pairs are in the same league in 2003:
-Kim/Ha;
-Chandra/Sigit;
-Lee/Yoo;
I am sure Denmark does have 2 capable pairs(one of them beat Lee/Yoo during Sudirman 2003) but not quite consistent.

[Pecheur]

Originally posted by Loh


Tony Gunawan impressed me when he partnered Chandra Wijaya and won not a few internationals. But since his departure for the US and his subsequent new partnership with Malaythong (of Laotian origin?), we have since seen little of him, unfortunately. The last time I saw him in action was during last year's Singapore Open. But Chandra went on to win this year's All England with Sigit.

It may surprise you, but I consider Rexy Mainaky's partner, Ricky Subagia, a fantastic doubles player. I can't forget his lightning and deceptive service and his explosive movements.

But, if you trace back to the All England records, among the Indonesian doubles players, none can beat the achievement of Tjun Tjun and Wahjudi, whom I had the privilege to watch them in Singapore, and who won six times from 1974 to 1980, somehow missing the crown in 1976.

But, so far, none can better the record of the great Dane, Finn Kobbero, who partnered Jorgen Hansen six times and Poul Erik Nielsen once, to win the All England Men's Doubles seven times in 1955 and 1956 and from 1960 to 1964.

Oh there's no question that there have been really great pairs, I remember Ricky and Rexy, however I'm too young for the rest. But the thing is about Tony now is that lack of a decent partner. Bob is a good player but Chandra went from Tony G to Sigit who despite having a strange style is a great if inconsistent player so it's not unexpected that he will have success. I can't really see Tony winning any big tournaments with Bob as a partner. Also Tony is now really a part time player so you don't expect that much success, as opposed to Chandra who is still full time.

PS I definately would have liked to see the Danes play, it's weird that even with the same training, here in Oz most of the good players had Asian coaches people still play more or less to the expected racial stereotypes for doubles, Westerners front back, little rotation, Easterners, moving lots. I wonder if it's historical in Denmark as well as the UK.

PPS Speaking about Danes, is there anyway I can get videos or footage of Morten Frost? Have lots of Peter Gade, but Morten is a legend.

[wilfredlgf]

This, I have to disagree.

Anybody who had seen Park Joo Bong & Kim Moon Soo play is likely to say otherwise. These two, to me, are the greatest of them all; past present and future.

[Loh]

Originally posted by wilfredlgf
Anybody who had seen Park Joo Bong & Kim Moon Soo play is likely to say otherwise. These two, to me, are the greatest of them all; past present and future. [/B]

No doubt about it, Park and Kim, were a great pair. They won the AE thrice (1985, '86 and '90) and Park partnered Lee Sang Bok to win a forth in 1989. During that period, the other more famous pairs include China's Li Yongbo (currently head coach) and Tian Bingyi and Malaysia's Sidek brothers, Jalani and Razif.

Somehow, the Korean and Chinese pairs met twice in the AE Finals, with Park and Kim winning in 1990 and losing to Li and Tian the following year.

The Sidek brothers achieved success in 1982 but were unfortunate to lose to Park and Kim in 1986. As I recalled, the Koreans were adept at killing the bird which was served an inche or less across the net. I think they were the ones who pioneered the aggressive attacking net play and really caused a lot of trouble to the Sidek brothers. If I am not mistaken, time and again, the Malaysians were punished for serving just a mite too high and I think one of the brothers, Jalani (?) had a forehand serve or both of them (?). I have to watch the tapes again to be able to confirm. This is probably one reason why the forehand serve is less preferred than the backhand serve in doubles because the former tends to project a higher trajectory. The brothers also lost to the Chinese pair in 1988.

In terms of popularity, no doubt both Park Joo Bong and Li Yongbo would have won by big margins!

But to conclude that Park and Kim are all-time greats, past, present and future, may be pushing it a bit too far.

If we measure the success of the players by the number of AE (once the unofficial world championship) wins, nobody has beaten Finn Kobberro of the past. The Koreans cannot be said to be the best at present simply because they have not beaten the likes of Chandra and Sigit and their fellow Korean countrymen in recent times. To say that Park and Kim should be able to beat their opponents when the Koreans were in their prime is only in theory and there is no way to confirm this.

The future is hard to predict. With so many countries taking to the badminton game because of its status as an Olympic sport, many more new professional players than before are entering international tournaments. Unlike the past, there are more players to contend with and one has not only to be good but also consistent to be able to last the distance!

[Cheung]

Guys,

sorry to interrupt but discussion on who the best pairings in the world over time was not really the intention of this thread;)

As you can see, the arguments can go on for a very long time:)

Rather, this thread was really about how good Tony G is, and the attributes that made him be able to reach the top. Don't know about you guys but I thought it would be far more interesting to discuss about how intelligence plays a part in the play of the game rather than technique.

Maybe it's just easier to discuss about past players and argue who is/was the best though:D:D:D

[Cheung]

Loh,

If my memory serves me correctly, Tony has played with Bob on three or four occasions, The last two/three occasions, they've reached the q/f stage. I think that's no mean feat considering the relative standing of US badminton previously. Who would you suspect contributes more in getting to the q/f stages? Tony or Bob??

(and no disrespect to Bob M. This is a purely objective point of view on the play and in no way is meant to constitute a personal attack)

[fabcargo]

DEAR TONY,

PLS COME BACK AND PLAY AGAIN FOR INDONESIA JUST FOR THE 2004 OLYMPICS. PLS ALLOW US TO SEE YOU PLAY WITH A CAPABLE PARTNER AGAIN AND WOW US.

I HV BEEN WATCHING YOU SINCE YOU WERE 6 YRS OLD PLAYING IN THE OLD H.C.I.Y.S. BADMINTON BUILDING I TEMBAAN-SURABAYA.

TKS FOR CONSIDERING.

RGDS.

[Loh]

Cheung

Yes, I think they played together a few times and reached the qf stage, maybe not as many as you said. I've got to check this.

I agree that Tony is definitely the main contributor with his skill, though a little rusty now, and his vast international exposure.

[modious]

Originally posted by Cheung
Loh,

If my memory serves me correctly, Tony has played with Bob on three or four occasions, The last two/three occasions, they've reached the q/f stage. I think that's no mean feat considering the relative standing of US badminton previously. Who would you suspect contributes more in getting to the q/f stages? Tony or Bob??

(and no disrespect to Bob M. This is a purely objective point of view on the play and in no way is meant to constitute a personal attack)

I've checked worldbadminton.net and it seems that Tony G/Bob has won 3 tounaments last year, and have also reached the quarter finals twice. Anyway, their ranking (no.9) is higher than Kevin/Howard (no.17). This tells you how much Tony G. has improved the standard of US badminton.

One combination I would love to see is Kim Dong Moon partnering Tony Gunawan. :D

[Loh]

Thanks modius for bringing the fact to my attention. I have since checked with World Badminton.

Yes, Tony and Bob won three times in Sep/Nov last year but those were not major tourneys. They reached the quarter-finals of the S'pore Open in August 2002 and the Thai Open early this year.

Unfortunately, in the three other tourneys they participated thereafter for this year, they did not reach the QF stage, having twice entered the 1/16 rounds of both the AE and the Swiss Open in Feb. They fared worse in the Japan Open in April 2003.

Of course the opposition got hotter in the major tourneys such as the AE and JO as many more world-class pairs vied for the top positions. To that extent Tony and Bob have to work much harder and the results revealed that they had quite a way to go. But to be ranked the 9th best pair in the world is not too bad for this relatively new partnership. They can only get better if they play more often together.

[Neil Nicholls]

It was discussed on TV that Tony Gunawan is the probably the best Men's Doubles player in the world.

Did they steal that line from my "Japan Open" report?
Or do I really have some analytical acumen for badminton?

I reckon you're in the know, Cheung :)

[kwun]

does anyone think that Tony have improved after he went to the USA?

back in INA, he was at the same level with Halim, Candra and Sigit. Candra and Sigit had a slump with their disagreements and partner switching. in this WC, they have shown that they are almost back at their former level. Tony on the other hand, seem to have eclipse them and raise his own game yet another level. he is even faster and smart at the net, even when facing Sigit/Candra in the 2005 WC finals, he was able to put enormous pressure on them and always intercepting and keeping the birdie down. he was the key to the WC win.

[TrueBlue]

Just bringing up this old post again:)

Had a conversation with a badminton person and that person had no special opinion on Tony G.; even rated Halim over Tony because Halim has a great smash.

What's good about Tony's play is that you don't see any special shots (apart form a few cross court netshots). It's very interesting to see a person with no obvious oustanding aspect of the game playing at the highest level. (unlike Sigit, Rexy).

IMHO ;), Tony's play shows intelligence. That's why I like his play.


From the few games i watched (one live), I would say a special shot of him is his "flicked" smash.

[w3wmfhe]

does anyone think that Tony have improved after he went to the USA?

back in INA, he was at the same level with Halim, Candra and Sigit. Candra and Sigit had a slump with their disagreements and partner switching. in this WC, they have shown that they are almost back at their former level. Tony on the other hand, seem to have eclipse them and raise his own game yet another level. he is even faster and smart at the net, even when facing Sigit/Candra in the 2005 WC finals, he was able to put enormous pressure on them and always intercepting and keeping the birdie down. he was the key to the WC win.

i think so..he does improve a lot and make himself into higher level...one of the greatest double player ever..b4 he was partner with candra or halim ..
coz he had strong partner that he didn't hv to play the way being partner with howard... now he is like covering 70% of the court while they were differencing.....tony is playing much smart than he was and his netplay was amazing........even against legend like candra and sigit...he is still out play those two former world champ in 1997 and siver in 2003.....

[ymq03]

does anyone think that Tony have improved after he went to the USA?

back in INA, he was at the same level with Halim, Candra and Sigit. Candra and Sigit had a slump with their disagreements and partner switching. in this WC, they have shown that they are almost back at their former level. Tony on the other hand, seem to have eclipse them and raise his own game yet another level. he is even faster and smart at the net, even when facing Sigit/Candra in the 2005 WC finals, he was able to put enormous pressure on them and always intercepting and keeping the birdie down. he was the key to the WC win.
I think it is all in their playing style. I think Tony is better at net, set up and control, not good for smash. Candra and Sigit are even between net and defense. Sigit might just slightly better on smash (not at Halim's level) and Candra might just slightly better than Sigit on set up and control, (but not at Tony's level). Halim is good on smash, slightly weak on other aspects. Here just a comparison among 4 of them using their standard. So when aging factor comes in, Tony get efffected least and he is even getting smarter. All other 3 could get smarter but they lose more on smashing power while aging. And this is another reason why Tony can play with so many people and perform well. This is all because the playing style. I can say if Tony has a chance to partner with Sigit, they will be on top of world, too. But if Halim partner with Sigit, they won't. Even at highest MD level, playing style is still important factor even they can do everything well compare with other players. Now days, MD rely on attack a lot, so it is hard to find a player with Tony's style. This is made him unique. Frankly, I think Tony, Candra, Sigit and Halim are all great legends for MD last 10 years.
Tony/Candra, Tony/Halim, Candra/Sigit - proved to be best already
Tony/Sigit - I believe they could be top if they have such chances
Candra/Halim - Possible to be the 1 top if they partner long enough
Sigit/Halim - Least possibility to be on top 1

[Loh]

[QUOTE=ymq03
Tony/Candra, Tony/Halim, Candra/Sigit - proved to be best already
Tony/Sigit - I believe they could be top if they have such chances
Candra/Halim - Possible to be the 1 top if they partner long enough
Sigit/Halim - Least possibility to be on top 1[/QUOTE]

Very interesting observation you made.

I don't know whether, given the chance, Indonesia will try out your favoured combinations, which I surmise to be as follows:

Tony/Sgit
Candra/Halim

But we know that on record, Tony/Candra and subsequently Candra/Sigit have done well. I may be wrong, but I thought the last time they were together Candra/Halim did not perform to expectation when Sigit had to be left out because of his 'problem'.

Of course, with both Tony and Halim expressing their desire to represent the US in the near future, I'm afraid your dream teams may not have a chance to be experimented! :rolleyes:

[Cheung]

Tony,

You're my favourite men's doubles player. It was great to see you play in a major final again.

In my eyes, you are one of the greatest men's doubles players in the history of modern badminton. Correction, the greatest! :cool:

[Cheung]

I think it is all in their playing style. I think Tony is better at net, set up and control, not good for smash. Candra and Sigit are even between net and defense. Sigit might just slightly better on smash (not at Halim's level) and Candra might just slightly better than Sigit on set up and control, (but not at Tony's level). Halim is good on smash, slightly weak on other aspects. I agree with some of your points but not all.

My belief a smash is much more than what we see on TV.

There are slower smashes, steeper smashes, flatter smashes. Yes, relative to the other three persons, Tony's smash may be a little slower. But, it's just as effective in that it produces the desired effect. The desired effect is not only a winning point. It's a stroke move that sets the play to win the point. In this respect, a smash can be effective two or three strokes earlier if it creates the advantage for your team to win the point. :)

[Cheung]

DEAR TONY,

PLS COME BACK AND PLAY AGAIN FOR INDONESIA JUST FOR THE 2004 OLYMPICS. PLS ALLOW US TO SEE YOU PLAY WITH A CAPABLE PARTNER AGAIN AND WOW US.

I HV BEEN WATCHING YOU SINCE YOU WERE 6 YRS OLD PLAYING IN THE OLD H.C.I.Y.S. BADMINTON BUILDING I TEMBAAN-SURABAYA.

TKS FOR CONSIDERING.

RGDS.
Though he didn't play in the 2004 Olympics, he certianly wowed the US.

[cooler]

Tony,

You're my favourite men's doubles player. It was great to see you play in a major final again.

In my eyes, you are one of the greatest men's doubles players in the history of modern badminton. Correction, the greatest! :cool:

I can second that. I really didnt see tony in action until he came to the US and i caught a glimpse of a ~ 45 seconds video playing for US with Khan Bob MALAYTHONG. Before that i only read about tony in olympic and all england results. During that ~45 seconds, i saw a lot of skills that were extraordinary. He save some sure kill shots, and on defense rallies, he can turn the table around into offense, at will. Alway thinking of the next best shot. No need to exbound on his net inteception and skill, his net shot induce a racket-clashing 3/4 lift from sigit/candra allowing halim to smash into winning the match point at the 2001 AE. I know MD is a team effort and one can also pick the best team but if i had to single one MD player, i say Tony G is it.

[Wizbit]

I would disagree with a couple of points. I don't think Tony and Sigit would be a better pair than Tony and Chandra.

Halim no doubt (had) the most ferocious smash. Sigit the steepest, because he gets up so high, however his smash is prone to hitting the net. Chandra's smash is also very consistent and powerful. Tony's smash is the weakest of the lot, but nonetheless very effective.

They are all equally good midcourt. Tony and Sigit excel at the front, and Chandra and Halim seem happy at the back.

There is another player called Tri Kusharyanto? who partnered Sigit for a while, when Chandra has a fling with Halim. Although Tri kus was not as brilliant as the mentioned individuals, they did better than the latter, because Sigit has better vision at the net, than Chandra or Halim. Tri and Sigit qualified for the Olympics if I recall correctly, when Chandra and Halim did not.

Chandra and Sigit was in a battle with Tony during the WC final. There is still a lot of competition between them, and you could see they enjoy the points when Tony was smiling even after losing a point. That is the reason why I think they isolated Tony. Picking on Howard would have been easy, if all they was after was the trophy. Instead, they tried to take the hard route by beating Tony Gunawan.

[apontoh]

Chandra and Sigit was in a battle with Tony during the WC final. There is still a lot of competition between them, and you could see they enjoy the points when Tony was smiling even after losing a point. That is the reason why I think they isolated Tony. Picking on Howard would have been easy, if all they was after was the trophy. Instead, they tried to take the hard route by beating Tony Gunawan.

I agree, actually, I think there's a strong psychological factor involved here in Candra/Sigit directing the shots to Tony...they don't want to be seen as 'cowards' by targeting Bach who is perceived to be the weaker partner, in a way, it was probably a personal thing with Tony - not necessarily antagonistic, but when you have a long history playing badminton with someone, you wanna make those rare occasions memorable. The satisfaction would have been a lot greater had they won by 'beating' Tony, rather than Howard Bach..unfortunately they didn't succeed.

[cooler]

I agree, actually, I think there's a strong psychological factor involved here in Candra/Sigit directing the shots to Tony...they don't want to be seen as 'cowards' by targeting Bach who is perceived to be the weaker partner, in a way, it was probably a personal thing with Tony - not necessarily antagonistic, but when you have a long history playing badminton with someone, you wanna make those rare occasions memorable. The satisfaction would have been a lot greater had they won by 'beating' Tony, rather than Howard Bach..unfortunately they didn't succeed.

I don't want to start another 'conspiracy theory' talk here but apontoh had brought out a reasonable point, that is sigit/candra play their shots quite equally on tony and howard, if not more to tony (plus tony had picked up more shots in the middle mid area). If above is true, then it is a strategy executed by the INA team on their own accord, and not to conspire to lose to the US but to give the crowd a exciting and longer games AND still hope strategically** to win it too.

** Add to this is that howard did played very very well, period. If a perceived weaker player playing very well and seem energetic (howard), and tony is more skillful but seem more tired, it is reasonable for INA team to direct shots to tony too as a winning strategy(plus maybe also don't want to seen as cowards as apontoh had said), not a plan to play to lose. As many had noted, tony had made his share of unforced errors in the 2nd half of game 2 and in game 3.

[ymq03]

I agree with some of your points but not all.

My belief a smash is much more than what we see on TV.

There are slower smashes, steeper smashes, flatter smashes. Yes, relative to the other three persons, Tony's smash may be a little slower. But, it's just as effective in that it produces the desired effect. The desired effect is not only a winning point. It's a stroke move that sets the play to win the point. In this respect, a smash can be effective two or three strokes earlier if it creates the advantage for your team to win the point. :)
Agree. Tony is very good on flatter smashes. My original post means steeper and back court smash. In now days MD, you need one to do this, otherwsie people just do lifts and you would hard to create chances for kill (due to bad return) or do a direct kill with weak back court hard smash. And if they keep lifting, you would not have much chance at the net, either. This is why WD now last so long these days.

[ymq03]

I would disagree with a couple of points. I don't think Tony and Sigit would be a better pair than Tony and Chandra.

Halim no doubt (had) the most ferocious smash. Sigit the steepest, because he gets up so high, however his smash is prone to hitting the net. Chandra's smash is also very consistent and powerful. Tony's smash is the weakest of the lot, but nonetheless very effective.

They are all equally good midcourt. Tony and Sigit excel at the front, and Chandra and Halim seem happy at the back.

There is another player called Tri Kusharyanto? who partnered Sigit for a while, when Chandra has a fling with Halim. Although Tri kus was not as brilliant as the mentioned individuals, they did better than the latter, because Sigit has better vision at the net, than Chandra or Halim. Tri and Sigit qualified for the Olympics if I recall correctly, when Chandra and Halim did not.

I do not mean Tony/Sigit would be better then Tony/Chandra. I just mean if Tony/Sigit could be partern, they would reach top 1 fairly easily.

I think Sigit has equal skill at net with Chandra, but Chandra is a more stable player than Sigit. You need cool to work at net. So when Chandra and Sigit play together, Chandra covers more in the front (just my observation) even they are very close to all categories.

I think Chandra only partner with Halim in very short period while Sigit had drug problem as another post said. So in my original post, I said if they can partenr long enough, they might be top 1. Of course at that time, PBSI put Tony and Chandra together and they delivered results faster. I do not think Chandra missed Olympics 2004 with Halim. I thought Chandra was partner with someone else. And the rank Chandra got was very close to Sigit (like their points were so close up to last open before Olympics).

[scchang]

I second this thought. One of my compatriot MD players watched Tony G.'s competitions for the past six to seven years. According to him, Tony is becoming an all around player from the hard-hitter at his early career. Tony was a hard-hitter circa 96-97 since his defense was weaker than his then partner, Rexy(?). Then moving along the way, he just keeps improving on all the skills such as defense and net; now, we see that he is really all-around and capable to cover the six and set up the chance for his partner. That is really amazing, "just getting better and better". I would guess that the coaching expereince made him see and think more; therefore, he can tackle the problems in the partnership and analyze the strong and weak sides of his opponents in a more efficient way to create the victory.

-S.C.

does anyone think that Tony have improved after he went to the USA?

back in INA, he was at the same level with Halim, Candra and Sigit. Candra and Sigit had a slump with their disagreements and partner switching. in this WC, they have shown that they are almost back at their former level. Tony on the other hand, seem to have eclipse them and raise his own game yet another level. he is even faster and smart at the net, even when facing Sigit/Candra in the 2005 WC finals, he was able to put enormous pressure on them and always intercepting and keeping the birdie down. he was the key to the WC win.

[B3nny H4nn4]

hm....
i wonder how a doubles pair of kim dong moon and tony gunawan would work...:rolleyes:



I don't mean any injustice to Kim Dong Moon. Really what I should have said clearly is (IMO) Tony is the best Men's doubles players AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT.

As an all round doubles player (inc. Mxd) then Kim is probably the best but it is difficult to gauge his form as he has played so few tournaments recently and lost to China in the Sudirman Cup. If you go on recent tournament results, the Zhang Jun or Michael Sogaard have showed more consistent form.

And YES, Kim Dong Moon showed awesome form in 1999/2000 until the Olympics crashing spectacularly early in the Mxd and losing in the Men's doubles. I was quite shocked that time. Who was he playing against in the Men's Doubles? None other than Tony Gunawen.

In the Korean Open, the Ina pairings were split and their 1st tournament with (relatively) new partners were always going to be under pressure.

[Pete LSD]

There is a possibility that might happen. If Kim Dong Moon immigrates to the U.S.A., then we might just see the Tony G. & KDM combo at work ;).


hm....
i wonder how a doubles pair of kim dong moon and tony gunawan would work...:rolleyes:

[ctjcad]

*reviving an old thread..

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-london-olympic-hopefuls-story,0,4999659.htmlstory
================================================== ====
Badminton
Tony Gunawan

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-07/63441303.jpg

Making the Olympic team is the least of Tony Gunawan's problems.

Not only are he and doubles partner Howard Bach the best badminton players in the country, as a doubles team, they're arguably the best in the Americas.

Yet that doesn't mean they'll be together in London.

To be eligible for the U.S. team, Gunawan, an Indonesian by birth, must first pass the citizenship test then go through a swearing-in ceremony in September. And that could be more unforgiving than any opponent he has faced on a badminton court.

“With immigration,” Gunawan says, “you never know.”

But that's only step one. After that, he wants to be sure he and Bach have a reasonable shot at a medal -- something no U.S. athlete has ever won in Olympic badminton competition.

“If I feel that there's no chance, I don't want to play,” he says. “Because I've already been there. What for?”

In the 2000 Sydney Games, Gunawan teamed with Candra Wijaya to win a gold medal for Indonesia in doubles. And a year later, he and new partner Halim Haryanto won a world championship. At 26, he had more than enough medals, but he was completely out of challenges.

“So I was thinking ‘OK, what next?’ I didn't want to retire just like that,” he says.

It was no longer about what badminton could do for him, but rather what he could do for badminton. Raising the level of play in the U.S. seemed like a reasonable goal, so six months after winning at the World Championships, Gunawan and his wife Eti, also an Indonesian Olympian, moved to the U.S.

The idea was for Gunawan to coach Bach, among others. But he soon found the best way to improve their game was to play beside them.

“When I came here, I was surprised. [The level] wasn't as low as I thought,” says Gunawan, who also coaches youth players in San Gabriel and Pomona. “It's just … they played too safe. They played conservative.

“They just don't really know how to play, basically.”

So Gunawan, 36, began teaching the Indonesian system, which is “attack, attack, attack.”

And though the U.S. is never likely to rival Indonesia in badminton, Gunawan says the level of play is getting better. However before it can be seen as a serious competitive sport and not as something people do while waiting for the barbecue to heat up, badminton will have to start drawing more of the dedicated and gifted athletes that have been going into other sports.

“It just needs to find some serious players,” says Gunawan, a slightly built, serious man who wore an Olympic sweatshirt stamped “Vancouver 2010” as he sipped coffee on the patio of a Starbucks not far from his West Covina home.

“There must be a way to make it bigger. Because we're at the bottom. We can only move up,” he says.

In the latest world rankings, he and Bach were 17th -- just outside what Gunawan considers medal hopefuls for London. But if he is sworn in as a U.S. citizen there's a chance he may relax his standards -- if only to keep a promise he made to his wife at the closing ceremony 11 years ago in Sydney.

“The closing actually is mostly just a party. But the opening is amazing,” he says. “After the closing I talked to my wife and told her, ‘I want to go to the Olympics again.’”

— Kevin Baxter, Photograph by Wally Skalij.

[chris-ccc]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-london-olympic-hopefuls-story,0,4999659.htmlstory
================================================== ====

To be eligible for the U.S. team, Gunawan, an Indonesian by birth, must first pass the citizenship test then go through a swearing-in ceremony in September. And that could be more unforgiving than any opponent he has faced on a badminton court.

“With immigration,” Gunawan says, “you never know.”

But that's only step one. After that, he wants to be sure he and Bach have a reasonable shot at a medal -- something no U.S. athlete has ever won in Olympic badminton competition.

— Kevin Baxter.
.
Source: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-olympics-badminton-20110911,0,3086034.story

====== * ====== part of article ====== * ======

By Kevin Baxter
September 10, 2011, 3:25 p.m.

Badminton has taken Olympic champion Tony Gunawan to courts all over the world. But he never expected it would land him in federal court, which is where he found himself Tuesday morning, ordered to appear before U.S. Magistrate Judge Carla M. Woehrle on the sixth floor of the Roybal Federal Building in downtown Los Angeles.

"I'm very nervous," Gunawan confessed, anxiously wringing his hands and smiling wanly.

His sport has brought him money and acclaim far beyond what he could have imagined growing up in East Java, Indonesia. But the award he was about to receive from Woehrle was U.S. citizenship.

"Raise your right hand," the judge instructed. And Gunawan, his rail-thin 5-foot-9 frame draped in a crisply pressed blue shirt and pleated black pants, snaps to attention. When he finishes reciting the 141-word oath of allegiance — pledging to support and defend a country he barely knew a decade ago — he smiles again as the five witnesses in the otherwise empty courtroom applaud.

Six months ago citizenship was simply a means to an end for Gunawan, something he needed to compete in October's Pan American Games and next summer's London Olympics.

But moments after leaving the courthouse, Gunawan takes a seat on a concrete bench and offers another confession.

"I've been looking forward to this for a long time," he says, his emotions getting ahead of his English. "Very lucky me that I got this opportunity to stay and work in the U.S. and then raise up my family here.

"So it's very fortunate. I never dreamed, actually, about this before when I was in Indonesia. It's quite a big moment for me."

And there may be other big moments ahead. With the citizenship issue resolved, Gunawan and partner Howard Bach are now clear to compete in next month's Pan American Games, where they will defend the doubles title Bach won with another partner four years ago. Then come next summer's London Games and a chance at badminton's biggest prize, an Olympic gold medal.

Yet all that is secondary for Gunawan, who already has an Olympic title and two world championships. His goal now, he says, is to raise the profile of badminton in his new home, where it is seen largely as a backyard barbecue activity.

====== * ====== part of article ====== * ======
.

[kwun]

congratulations Tony!!

yes. as i was heard that is the plan. for them to play Olympics together.

[chris-ccc]

congratulations Tony!!

yes. as i was heard that is the plan. for them to play Olympics together.
.
Yes, Congratulations to Tony !!! :):):)

He has just made it in time for the 2012 Olympic Games, playing for the USA.

I believe that this could be Tony's last participation at 'The Games'.
.

[Loh]

I join in to congratulate Tony Gunawan as a foreign badminton talent who has now gone on to become a citizen in his adopted country.

Hope he will contribute to helping to popularize badminton in the US and bring glory to his country just as the great Dave Freeman has done many decades ago.

[george@chongwei]

So he's finally an AMERICAN;)

[vin219]

he's just like david beckham in football.

[Cheung]

I've met Tony this week at the 2011 HK open.

I know it's his last tournament in HK. I am really, really sad to know that it's the last tournament and the last match I'll ever see him play :(( :(( Will miss him.

I remember his comeback year when he played with Minarti mixed doubles in HK just for fun. You could see all the players in the audience move over to watch that match.