hair style of MS players - badminton related trait?

[cooler]

It came to me that latest crop of top MS players have similar natural hair style: spikey to puff daddy, like they all have used fabric softener as hair shampoo conditioner. Picture shown are from different MS players, there could be more of them out there.

[Wizbit]

I think you'll find that their hair have been cut in such a way, that gives them a fluffy and lighter texture, so it is not as natural as you may think. I think the technical term is feathered. So far no one has knitted feathers into my head yet, when I ask for it ;)

By the way I guess the players are Cai Yun, Xia Xuan Ze, Lin Dan, Bao Chun Lai and Peter Gade :p


It came to me that latest crop of top MS players have similar natural hair style: spikey to puff daddy, like they all have used fabric softener as hair shampoo conditioner. Picture shown are from different MS players, there could be more of them out there.

[cooler]

I think you'll find that their hair have been cut in such a way, that gives them a fluffy and lighter texture, so it is not as natural as you may think. I think the technical term is feathered. So far no one has knitted feathers into my head yet, when I ask for it ;)

By the way I guess the players are Cai Yun, Xia Xuan Ze, Lin Dan, Bao Chun Lai and Peter Gade :p

close, the first one is chen hong. I got the pics from the BF photoalbum

[Wizbit]

The first one was a bit trickier ;) Chen Hong usually wears a short sides and flat top hair style :)


We could start a guess the players from legs or hairstyle quiz :)

close, the first one is chen hong. I got the pics from the BF photoalbum

[odjn]

WOW! now I wanna have hair like this now :rolleyes:

[Joseph]

My hair is normally puffy...too bad i dont also have the same skills as them.

[tir168]

the secrets of badminton is out....it's the hair..!!!! :D

aerodynamics maybe or just plain simple style/personal liking?? :confused:

[ants]

you willl feel lighter and more comfortable with those hairstyle.

[cooler]

the secrets of badminton is out....it's the hair..!!!! :D

aerodynamics maybe or just plain simple style/personal liking?? :confused:


I think there is a genetic advantage - better heat loss. Wavy hairs tend to trap more body heat then spikey hairs. Heat, lactic acid and CO2 are waste byproducts of metabolism. Spikey hairs enhance thermal radiation and convectional heat loss (air drag) from the head. Of course a bald head would create better heat loss but in most cultures, having hair is also an desirable trait so spikey hair is a balance of having a set of hair with good heat loss.

[mirrura]

Hhhmm....What about players who ocassionaly change their hairstyle?? I have yet to see a player like that...well maybe for Misbun Sidek as I've been informed by my friend. There was once when he had this Mohican (not sure bout the spelling) hairstyle and then some other hairstyle as well.

[tir168]

cooler...
your logic does sound kinda true. =)

or maybe with all the hairs not coupled together[wavy hair or normal hair]..there is more space for air to move over thier heads, as to less air resistance, so they could move faster around the court. :D

[Jonno]

Of course a bald head would create better heat lossSo why isn't Anders Boesen taking home all the Grand Prix titles? ;) :p :D

[cooler]

So why isn't Anders Boesen taking home all the Grand Prix titles? ;) :p :D
LOL, it is only a statistical trend, not a direct one to one relationship. ie,i presented 5 cases. Having 1 exception case of baldness isnt enough derail my little theory, yet :p

[cooler]

cooler...
your logic does sound kinda true. =)

or maybe with all the hairs not coupled together[wavy hair or normal hair]..there is more space for air to move over thier heads, as to less air resistance, so they could move faster around the court. :D


your point isnt solid because the advantage of better cooling supercede the benefits of lower air resistance which is very very negligible. If your point is valid, then all badminton players should shaves their head and legs as well. The body hairs actually enhance cooling because it give the body more surface area for the sweats to dry off. Better drying = better cooling. Wavy or low air resistance hair cut guide air AROUND and OVER the head, defeating cooling ability.

Now you understand why XZX fold up his shirt collar ;) If lowering air resistance is so important, all pros baddy players would wear those tight body wrapping cyclist jersey and pants, not loose clothing.

[Jonno]

LOL, it is only a statistical trend, not a direct one to one relationship. ie,i presented 5 cases. Having 1 exception case of baldness isnt enough derail my little theory, yet :pGood theory it is though, think I'll nip down the hairdressers' as soon as I get the chance :rolleyes::p

[cooler]

So why isn't Anders Boesen taking home all the Grand Prix titles? ;) :p :D

Jonno, the anders boesen case bugs me because it doesn't fit well with my original postulation and my general observation of top athletes.

First: Yes, having less hair improve aerodynamics but in badminton, player aerodynamic is less so important as compare to other sport like marathon or swimming or cycling. Badminton players cool off from sweating more so than from rushing fluid over body.

Second: I did some more research and found this. Bald headed people actually sweat less efficiently. There are 2 major kinds of sweat glands, one kind (Apocrine) is connected to the hair follicle. If # of hair follicle is reduced or shut off, rendering this class sweat gland ineffective. These Here is the description:

Sweat Glands
Sweat is a watery substance that is made up of urea (waste product of protein change in the kidneys), fatty acids, and salt. Perspiration is an important function of the skin that cools the body through evaporation and clears the body of waste that can be expelled through its pores. In order to manage such a critical task, the body employs a system of sweat glands that runs throughout the skin. A sweat gland is an elongated tubular structure that originates in the subcutaneous tissue beneath the dermis and extends up to the surface of the epidermis, where it ends at either a pore or a hair follicle. At its secretory base, the gland is coiled and bunched, but its emerging duct straightens as it reaches toward the surface. A sweat gland is one of two types, eccrine or apocrine.

Eccrine sweat glands, of which there are a greater number than apocrine glands in the body, terminate in a pore. Therefore, eccrine glands are predominantly responsible for sweat secretion and cooling the body. They are found everywhere on the body except the rim of the lips and most of the xxxxx. There may be as many as 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 eccrine glands in the body, with the greatest accumulation on the palms.

Apocrine sweat glands open into and feed hair follicles explicitly. They are typically larger than eccrine glands and are more developed in women. They are found in greatest number in the xxxxx region and in the armpit. When an apocrine gland secretes sweat, some of its cells disintegrate. The product of this disintegration contributes to sweat, which, depending on the amount and type of bacteria it produces, carries an odor that is characteristic of perspiration.


Third: Bald people tend to have less sweat glands overall. This is just one case study and may not be 100% conclusive but it is an indication.

A total of 85 members of a family in which several individuals presented with hypodontia, hypotrichosis, and hypohidrosis were examined. Of these, 77 were evaluated clinically and the results compared with those obtained in an equal number of carefully chosen controls. The main symptoms among the affected males and females involved changes in the quantity and texture of head hair and in the distrubution of body hair. More than half of the males also showed precocious baldness. The average of missing teeth was 12 among men with the syndrome, but only 2 among the obligate female carriers. The sweat pore counts were lower in the two sexes (42% and 60% of the normal values, respectively), and a much higher degree of asymmetry was observed especially among the affected women.

[tir168]

after that reply by cooler...i got nothing more to add. :D damm.. :mad: :)

[cooler]

after that reply by cooler...i got nothing more to add. :D damm.. :mad: :)

sorry.... :p :D

[Jonno]

I'm impressed. I feel as though I've genuinely learnt something after reading that. :cool:

[FEND.]

mmm. Reviving this thread for a small bit of extra info.

1) If the head is bald, I don't think the person will lose more heat faster. Think bout computer CPU's. If it was proven that bald aka nothing above the surface of where heat is being emited from, the why aren't we running CPU's without heat sinks with just a fan blowing on it from the side of the case and nothing but airspace between the CPU and the fan.

2) The spiky and not so thick hair will increase the amount of airflow as, surface to volume ratio is greatly increased. Hence the transfer of heat out through conventional air cooling is faster.

3) In thermal physics, it is stated that items which are black & dull coloured (most asians have blackhair) lose more heat through radiation compared to shiny and white coloured surfaces.

Hope this clears up thermal physics.

~Cheers

[tir168]

aarrgghh...all the science...!! melting my brain...!! ..hehe :D

cooler, don't worry abt it...well at least i got to learn something + physics by FEND :)

[Neil Nicholls]

Heat sinks tend to be of conductive material, so the heat is transferrred from where it is produced to a larger surface area to speed cooling.
The same principle wouldn't apply to hair because I don't think much heat is transferred from the body into the strands of hair.

Hair keeps a body warm by "trapping" some air near to the body which acts as insulation. Spikey hair will trap less air. Bald head traps no air.

[moving now into theoretical/guesswork/maybe talking nonsense zone]
Also hair gives the water in the sweat a seed around which to form droplets.
Droplets in the hair evaporate more slowly than would sweat on the head and so you are cooled less. [not sure about that last bit] Is heat in the body conducted more easily to water on the skin than it is to the air around the body? If so, you would get better heat loss by having sweat on the skin rather than in your hair.

[chinadoll]

their hair got spikey n stands up because of static n speed movement :D

[SDK-MSN]

the haircut has got nothin to do with science (i suppose)
it's just the easiest to cut you can get from any barber shop plus i dont think they bother about the latest trend of hairstyles since they have a lot of practice to do.

[cooler]

aarrgghh...all the science...!! melting my brain...!! ..hehe :D

cooler, don't worry abt it...well at least i got to learn something + physics by FEND :)

LOL, me not worrying :D I know my thermodynamic quite well:P . I’m just bringing them out for general discussion and try to connect them to badminton.

FEND’s physics:

1) you cannot equate hairs to heat sink. Heat sinks are made of high thermal k materials (Ag, Cu, Al, etc) while human hair has low relative thermal k. ie, you have used an incorrect analogy to explains conductive heat flow.

2) this point of your is somewhat correct but not 100% correct. I think lin dan, xzx, etc hairs are quite thick, if they have thin hairs they will be all droopy(asumming no hair gels used. Looks like PG might had used some hair gels from the pic) . Surface to volume is high like u said but the cooling mechanism u described is not 100% correct. Didn’t understood your term conventional cooling.

3) Yes, a black body emits more heat.

Neil N.

Your first point is correct about hair being a poor conductor of heat.
Your second point started out good but digressed to the wrong direction. :p


Come guys, there is one major advantage of having those spikey hair do’s for badminton. I’m waiting..... ;)

[kwun]

Come guys, there is one major advantage of having those spikey hair do’s for badminton. I’m waiting..... ;)
because girls like it? :)

[cooler]

because girls like it? :)
Hmm, i don't know, science, in fact, nobody, has yet found out what girls like :p :p

[timeless]

*LOL* Speak for yourself Cooler! :D :p ;)

[timeless]

I've been letting my hair grow out for the past year. Before it was very short and spikey. One thing I really miss about short spiked hair is that it stays out of your eyes while you play! Unless I wear a bandana or something, I'm constantly moving my hair away from my face. Gets quite distracting, and I've missed many shots when my vision was suddenly obscured by a lock of my own hair *LOL*. For fun games it's no big deal but during serious games I'd certainly have to wear a bandana.

Heat also certainly plays a big part. Your head gets much hotter with a big mop on your head. Having a lot of long hair also weighs a lot more. You might not think it's much, but when you have long hair and then cut it really short, you notice the weight loss immediately. It feels like a large weight has been lifted off your shoulders (head).

Another more practical advantage of having short hair is that you don't have to spend nearly as much time caring for it. You can literally just jump out of bed, and it looks pretty much the same all the time. With long hair, yikes the grooming process is lengthened significantly. Same with when you wash your hair. Takes quite a lot longer with longer hair than with short hair. I never realized that it truly did take a long time to wash your hair when girls used to say it! *LOL* :D

[FEND.]

mmm.

Cooler, I presume you mean that spiky hair doesn't get in the way of the person's game. :p

[cooler]

FEND

LOL, maybe but i was looking for a different answer. Yes, too long of a hairdo will hinder visual and heat loss as well.

[FEND.]

Is it an answer involving thermal physics? or is it a general answer?

[cooler]

Is it an answer involving thermal physics? or is it a general answer? LOL, 'thermal physics' of course ;)

[FEND.]

Alright cooler. As of typing this, I am just about to leave for school It' 6.15 am now. I'll get back with my answer :p:p

[cooler]

Alright cooler. As of typing this, I am just about to leave for school It' 6.15 am now. I'll get back with my answer :p:p

And you can't ask the teacher either :p :p

[timeless]

I also forgot to add, when you sweat a lot and your hair gets wet, it lengthens. Having shorter hair would prevent a medium length hair from getting into your eyes and face. That little extra length would probably also hinder heat loss a bit too.

And I personally feel that spiked hair looks more aggressive than most other hairstyles. Perhaps it's a social stereotype from the old punk rock look, and perhaps even further back to feudal war where soldiers had large helmet horns, or protruding spikes and ornaments, to make them look like demons, and instill fear in their enemy. No one would feel intimidated by someone with a beatles bowl cut or geeky side-part! No offense intended for those sporting the aforementioned hair styles. :p ;)

[FEND.]

K. Cooler, I didn't ask a teacher. I just asked a genius of a classmate who gave me the simplest of answers :p:p:p:p:p:p.

Shorter and spiky hair traps less heat, as compared to longer and flat (aka pressed down) on your head. There we go. Simple yet logical.

~Cheers :cool:

[cooler]

K. Cooler, I didn't ask a teacher. I just asked a genius of a classmate who gave me the simplest of answers :p:p:p:p:p:p.

Shorter and spiky hair traps less heat, as compared to longer and flat (aka pressed down) on your head. There we go. Simple yet logical.

~Cheers :cool:

LOLOL, that is one reason but not the main reason.
I'm surprised u had to go ask a genius to get that answer :p :p :p :p

[FEND.]

Mmm.

Cooler you sure are one tricky fellow. Will keep thinking bout this. I'll revive the thread once I get the answer.

P.S You're Going DOWN!!!! :p:p:p:p

~Cheers

[cooler]

Mmm.

Cooler you sure are one tricky fellow. Will keep thinking bout this. I'll revive the thread once I get the answer.

P.S You're Going DOWN!!!! :p:p:p:p

~Cheers

In your dream or when you enroll in your first thermodyanic course, hopefully before my hairs turn white. :p :p :p :p

[carlol]

i think hair is more of an insulator than a conductor. That might explain why asians and africans and people normally from the hotter areas of the earth have darker hair... so their hair can insulate them from the searing heat of the sun. Caucasians and northerners, on the other hand, have lighter hair... maybe due to the cooler climate where they originally came from and where their evolution happened.... So their hair cant insulate them from the sun's heat as much, allowing them to enjoy the sun's warmth a lil bit more. This is if we are talking about the rays of the sun, wch is an outdoor thing and doesnt happen in badminton

However, the flaw in this premise would be that dark colors naturally absorb heat while light colors naturally reflect heat... that would make the inverse to my statement true as well... wouldnt asians / africans benefit from lighter colored hair then, since light colored hair would reflect heat rather than absorb heat?

For cooling effect by evaporation, wouldnt bald people or people with less hair benefit from that effect more than people with more hair since airflow is a big factor in the evaporative cooling process? Sweat and all kinds of moisture naturally will flow downward... it wont go up the strands of hair. Maybe thats why the hair is spiked, so it woudlnt disturb the flow of sweat downwards, not make the hair heavy with moisture and fall across the eyes.

I think im gettin incoherent already, starting to blab... i should end it here for now before i get too incoherent :p :p :D

[cooler]

Yup, you threw out lotta observations, postulations and theories with some contradicting each others too :p In the process, you had raise another question of why people from the tropic have darker skins and hairs when we all know dark color absorbs and converts more sunlights into heat than lighter color. Nature is play tricks on us, hehe. (There is an answer for that too :p )

Well, for now, i wouldn't be making any more comments on 1/4 or 1/2 or take your pick from menu of probable answers :p

[Neil Nicholls]

I give up.
And while I've been waiting for cooler to tell us the answer, my hair has got longer, and, as I have it more hippy-style than spiky, I'm worried that my badminton is suffering.

I have a singles match (or 2) on Saturday. I need to know if I have to change my hairstyle :D

[cooler]

I give up.
And while I've been waiting for cooler to tell us the answer, my hair has got longer, and, as I have it more hippy-style than spiky, I'm worried that my badminton is suffering.

I have a singles match (or 2) on Saturday. I need to know if I have to change my hairstyle :D


LOL, one down, many to go yet:p
Neil, i think your situation would make a great experiment to further our understanding in this subject. Let us know how you performed versus your expectation :) I think from your weekend tournament, the answer may emerge while you're duking it out on the court :)

[jug8man]

Yup, you threw out lotta observations, postulations and theories with some contradicting each others too :p In the process, you had raise another question of why people from the tropic have darker skins and hairs when we all know dark color absorbs and converts more sunlights into heat than lighter color. Nature is play tricks on us, hehe. (There is an answer for that too :p )

Well, for now, i wouldn't be making any more comments on 1/4 or 1/2 or take your pick from menu of probable answers :p


1) up-straight hair traps less heat (and moisture) than flat hair because of 'no ceiling'. thus heat and moisture (which traps heat) is released at a higher rate.

2) spiky hair has a larger surface area allowing more transfer of heat from the hair to surroundings as compared to a flat cropped hair cut.

3) hair is a poor conductor of heat. so a short hair cut is for the purpose of blocking heat (say from the sun) from entering directly into the human body as apposed to long hair which is for the purpose to trapping the heat.

4) as far as i've heard, 70% of heat from the human body is released from the head (hair portion. not to sure about the figure but roughly i think)

5) black color is a lousy conductor but a great insulator (retains heat) as opposed to bright colors. i made this from observing frying woks. flashy woks heat up fast and cools faster. black woks take longer to get hot but stay hot a lot longer. so asians with black hair are more resistant to long exposure to the sun because it takes longer for them to 'feel' the heat. this is opposed to bright colored hair which would emmediately notice an increase in tempreture under the sun. but dark hair takes longer to cool as well. so lol.

6) you kicked out the thick vs less thick hair so i wont go there

7) bald head still has less surface to transfer heat as compared to spiky hair.


thats the best i got. remember im not a science guy so pls be nice ;)


extra.

i think we forgot to take into consideration that the (open) trapping of air by spiky hair is good for badminton as compared to totally no hair trapping by bald hair. this is because the human head is not stationary in badminton and is constantly experiencing airflow when we move. so when surface is higher (in spiky hair terms) we are increasing the amount of surface area that experiences airflow thus increasing the transfer of heat rate. something like what a carburator experiences when the car is traveling i suppose. there my 2 cents worth. :)

[jug8man]

1)

extra.

i think we forgot to take into consideration that the (open) trapping of air by spiky hair is good for badminton as compared to totally no hair trapping by bald hair. this is because the human head is not stationary in badminton and is constantly experiencing airflow when we move. so when surface is higher (in spiky hair terms) we are increasing the amount of surface area that experiences airflow thus increasing the transfer of heat rate. something like what a carburator experiences when the car is traveling i suppose. there my 2 cents worth. :)

cooler. you're a car guy. this must be the main reason right?? :confused:

[cooler]

cooler. you're a car guy. this must be the main reason right?? :confused:

before i comment on your previous post, this one is i think not relevant.
How do a carburetor knows how fast the car is travelling.

ex.

I can put my car in 'park' mode and rev the engine to red line. Carb is working mad but car is not moving.

car drive off the cliff and falling 130 mph but the carb can be doing nothing.

[jug8man]

before i comment on your previous post, this one is i think not relevant.
How do a carburetor knows how fast the car is travelling.

ex.

I can put my car in 'park' mode and rev the engine to red line. Carb is working mad but car is not moving.

car drive off the cliff and falling 130 mph but the carb can be doing nothing.


goes to show what i know about cars :D :D :D :D

but seriously. i dont get what you mean about "How do a carburetor knows how fast the car is travelling"?

and how come a "carb can be doing nothing" when it is moving?

im confused. im not sure what i know anymore at the moment. please clarify :confused:

[jug8man]

extra.

i think we forgot to take into consideration that the (open) trapping of air by spiky hair is good for badminton as compared to totally no hair trapping by bald hair. this is because the human head is not stationary in badminton and is constantly experiencing airflow when we move. so when surface is higher (in spiky hair terms) we are increasing the amount of surface area that experiences airflow thus increasing the transfer of heat rate. something like what a carburator experiences when the car is traveling i suppose. there my 2 cents worth. :)


omg. i must sound like a complete idiot here. i totally mixed up a radiator for a carburator!! :o

that explains the confusion. :D :D :D
i suppose this is what happens when you post messages at 2 in the morning :rolleyes:

anyway it should read like this:

"...something like what a radiator experiences when the car is traveling i suppose."

sorry for the confusion :o

[prophet]

Here's some insight from someone with experience. I've played with short spiky hair, flat longer hair, and I've played with a 1 cm bald buzz cut that's as close to bald as you can get.

With my bald cut my head was constantly getting very hot, and the sweat was dripping much more than usually. The sweat would drip all over my eyes, I found it totally unbearable. I thought having such a bald cut would be allow my head to be cooler (pardon the pun), but as cooler points out- it actually causes the sweat glands to work less efficiently.

With the flat longer hair, the density causes the sensation that you are less cool. Does the heat from the head get trapped in the hair follicles?

I've found my head is coolest with short spiky hair. The heat and sweat from the head get trapped in the hair follicles, but the looser cut of hair allows air movement within the hair, cooling the head down. Also the sweat is taken away from the head and to the ends of the hair follicles, which either flicks off or evaporates(?).

Just some ideas from layman's terms.

[kwun]

i think prophet has it spot on.

heat is dissipated from the body in two manners, as convection from air flow and as sweat.

long hair is worse in most cases as it traps heat and doesn't encourage sweat evaporation.

bald hair allows for convection better than short and long hair but sweat sticks around.

short spiky hair is best as it allows for air flow as well as it absorbs sweat and give more surface area for the sweat to evaporate.

great topic, cooler. (i wonder if your username has anything to do with it? :) )

[FEND.]

O.o Cooler!! Don't tell me you are intending to cut spiky???

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/vb/images/smilies/tongue.gifhttp://www.badmintoncentral.com/vb/images/smilies/tongue.gif

P.S Are any of these the answers you wanted?

~Cheers

[jug8man]

... and I've played with a 1 cm bald buzz cut that's as close to bald as you can get.

With my bald cut my head was constantly getting very hot, and the sweat was dripping much more than usually. The sweat would drip all over my eyes, I found it totally unbearable. I thought having such a bald cut would be allow my head to be cooler (pardon the pun), but as cooler points out- it actually causes the sweat glands to work less efficiently.



i think cooler meant that 'real' bald people (as in no hair growing) have less sweat glands and some of their sweat glands are associated to their hair follicles. so they have non functioning sweat glands as well.

so i dont think by buz cutting your hair short would have any effect on your sweat glands. but i suppose cooler should be the best person to confirm this.
cooler where are you? :D :D :D

however i pretty much agree with everything else you said. :) :) :)

[cooler]

Thanks to all those who replied to this thread.
I will give my point of view on this topic later today.

Fend, my hair aren't stiff as those pictured so i need to go really short to gain air ventilation and i dont intend to go that short ;)

[Ben Beckman]

your point isnt solid because the advantage of better cooling supercede the benefits of lower air resistance which is very very negligible. If your point is valid, then all badminton players should shaves their head and legs as well. The body hairs actually enhance cooling because it give the body more surface area for the sweats to dry off. Better drying = better cooling. Wavy or low air resistance hair cut guide air AROUND and OVER the head, defeating cooling ability.

Now you understand why XZX fold up his shirt collar ;) If lowering air resistance is so important, all pros baddy players would wear those tight body wrapping cyclist jersey and pants, not loose clothing.
XZX wears his collar up because he is a fan of eric cantona who wore his collar up.

[prophet]

i think cooler meant that 'real' bald people (as in no hair growing) have less sweat glands and some of their sweat glands are associated to their hair follicles. so they have non functioning sweat glands as well.

so i dont think by buz cutting your hair short would have any effect on your sweat glands. but i suppose cooler should be the best person to confirm this.
cooler where are you? :D :D :D

however i pretty much agree with everything else you said. :) :) :)

That's true jug8man, I had a bald cut mainly by choice and not because I lost my hair. I wonder if the sweat glands stop developing or become less efficient for those that get a complete shaved head by choice? And does a 'naturally' bald person have less efficient sweat glands because of the loss of hair or the other way around? Sorry, I'm not any type of biology person so just raising questions. :)

[cooler]

That's true jug8man, I had a bald cut mainly by choice and not because I lost my hair. I wonder if the sweat glands stop developing or become less efficient for those that get a complete shaved head by choice? And does a 'naturally' bald person have less efficient sweat glands because of the loss of hair or the other way around? Sorry, I'm not any type of biology person so just raising questions. :)

Don't worry about, sweat gland density is related to natural baldness (remember that i only provided one supporting quote). However, this is my opinion, going to complete baldness voluntary would or could lead to eventual less efficient sweating.

[cooler]

ok, here is my 2 cents on what i think the reasons why most top MS players wear similar hair do's. Initially, I've created this thread just to post about my observation, i wasn't prepared to give explanation, my first thot is that it was just a statistical coincidence. As people start posting, i gave some thoughts about it and saw a possible thermodynamic reasons to it. Members who have posted here are making similar progress too, providing better answers post after post.

Jug8man, out of an A, i would give u a B+. I would have given u an A- if u didnt make your fifth point about black body is less conducting. :p
You had mentioned better heat loss from more surface area of spikey hair case but u didn't point out the key cooling mechanism, evaporation of sweat.

Prophet had alluded evaporation and Kwun nailed it.

Evaporation provides the bulk cooling of a moving badminton player, from the head, shirt, short and legs, just like stepping out of a shower. Second most important cooling mechanism is convectional air exchange to remove evaporated water and warm air trapped within the hair. Third mechanism, not mentioned, is thermal radiation which actually become #1 cooling mechanism when the player stop moving. http://www.yonex.co.jp/badminton/feature/verycool/index.html)
There is a fourth cooling mechanism but it plays a really minor role.

The hair provide the surface area for the sweat to evaporate. Too much hair (or limpy hair) will look like a wet mop and air can't maximize contact with the wet hair. Too short of hair can't keep up with sweat generation and sweat rolls off, distracting the player as well as having less sweat to evaporate. I remember seeing bald headed people exercising wear sweat bands around their head, reducing area for cooling.

So it seem hair styles do play a role in sport. However, the optimum length depends on many parameters: hair density, stiffness, diameter, and type of movement of the athletes.

[kwun]

yeah. and here is one much less scientific reason. as somebody who's hair grows much faster than i want it to, and one who used to live in a hot climate. long hair is just too messy to deal with with sweat. cool or not, longer hair traps sweat and is messy when wet. also, i once hung out in a badminton gym (no A/C) all day during the summer. i went to the shower and go back to play more badminton at least 4 times. short hair is much easier to dry with a towel and most of the time very little brushing is needed to get it "tidy".

another big plus there imho.

[Cheung]

So why does Zhang Ning play with a pony tail?

Why don't more women players have shorter hair?

And does XXZ have his collar up becuase it increases the surface area for evaporation? Presumably, the water in his sweat moves by surface tension to the drier areas of the collar befroe evaporating...hehe

[prophet]

Kwun, Cooler, we must be baddy fanatics, staying up past 1:30am (here in the west coast) talking about hair on badminton players! :D

Interesting discussion and appreciated the scientific breakdown.

[kwun]

So why does Zhang Ning play with a pony tail?

Why don't more women players have shorter hair?
because short hair doesn't look pretty! (at least not on everybody) :)

most of the off-court pictures i have seen of the Chinese ladies all have their hair down. maybe they prefer it that way.

[jug8man]

Jug8man, out of an A, i would give u a B+. I would have given u an A- if u didnt make your fifth point about black body is less conducting. :p
You had mentioned better heat loss from more surface area of spikey hair case but u didn't point out the key cooling mechanism, evaporation of sweat.


i guess u win some and you lose some. :D :D :D :D
but i cant take all that credit cause i benefited alot from reading all the previous post of the others. i suppose i was just standing on the shoulders of giants :) :)

and dang i thought my obs on black and flashy frying woks were rock solid :p:p:p

[cooler]

and dang i thought my obs on black and flashy frying woks were rock solid :p:p:p

your observation of black versus flashy frying woks are somewhat correct but it's because of different reasons ;)

[cooler]

because short hair doesn't look pretty! (at least not on everybody) :)

most of the off-court pictures i have seen of the Chinese ladies all have their hair down. maybe they prefer it that way.

LOL, i agree. length and texture of hair, from opposite gender point of view, are associated with beauty and sensuality, especially of the female gender. (hahaha, i'm treading on thin ice again :D ) So in general, most women prefer having longer hair to the point that it's manageable. Furthermore, the ladies tend to have finer and less stiff hairs than the guys, tying back the long hair is the most efficient way to control their hair, especially in pony tail style because it raises the back hair high so it doesn't insulate their neck and back area.

Here are some photos with my comments

gong ruina: imagine if she doesnt tie back her hair during badminton. She won't she see a thing on court.

camilla martin, carla bott, zhang ning: the hairs would stick to their face and interfere their sights if their hairs weren't tied back

Gong Ruina, XXF: They employ lots of hair management techniques :)

Zhou Mi i think has coarser hairs than the above ladies players and she also has a shorter cut. I did see zhou mi uses a hair pin on the front side.

[wood_22_chuck]

... have finer and less stiff hairs than the guys, tying back the long hair is the most efficient way to control their hair, especially in pony tail style because it raises the back hair high so it doesn't insulate their neck and back area.


I suggest, when you go on dates, that you just say:

"Wow <name_of_lady>. Your hair looks very nice!"

instead of

"Your hair is finer and less stiff than guys. Can I have a few locks of your hair to experiment and quantify the flex? After which I will tabulate and normalize all others to yours, and therefore immortalize your stunning hair, and you will be flattered that you have set THE standard."

-dave

[timeless]

LOL that's why there aren't many girls studying engineering... the guys are all geeks! :p

[Cheung]

Wow, look at that picture of Zhang Ning. Her knee is so high. I wonder how many people get even slightly close to that position in everyday badminton.

hey am I off topic?

[cooler]

LOL, look like someone isn't looking at the hairs :D

[jug8man]

Yup, you threw out lotta observations, postulations and theories with some contradicting each others too :p In the process, you had raise another question of why people from the tropic have darker skins and hairs when we all know dark color absorbs and converts more sunlights into heat than lighter color. Nature is play tricks on us, hehe. (There is an answer for that too :p )

Well, for now, i wouldn't be making any more comments on 1/4 or 1/2 or take your pick from menu of probable answers :p


cooler. have you forgoten something? :confused:
im sure everyone is eager to know already. i am.
or we should open this question to the forum for a few more days?
what do you think? :D:D:D

and just want to know. will the anawer be about thermodynamics or is it just about uv rays?

[ants]

Does anyone have the old pictues of misbun's hairstyles? Expecially his mohican hairstyle... i think he is the dares and the most flamboyant player in history so far.

[cooler]

Yah, it is for biological reason.

[cooler]

XZX wears his collar up because he is a fan of eric cantona who wore his collar up.

anyone want to take a stab on this one, for technical reason?
;)

[Neil Nicholls]

Why don't more women players have shorter hair?

And does XXZ have his collar up becuase it increases the surface area for evaporation?

cosmetic reasons
there are probably different factors to body temperature in women.
women have more essential body fat than men. generally have less muscle, less body weight. They may have greater surface area to volume ratio, especially the thinner girls like Xie XinFang. WS games are shorter than MS.

XXZ's collar ... tribute to Elvis, uh huh, thankyou very much.

[cooler]

So why does Zhang Ning play with a pony tail?

Why don't more women players have shorter hair?

And does XXZ have his collar up becuase it increases the surface area for evaporation? Presumably, the water in his sweat moves by surface tension to the drier areas of the collar befroe evaporating...hehe

sorry cheung i forgot that you had made comment on xzx's collar already. Very delicate process indeed (capillary pressure ;) ) Yes, this process is happening too especially if the shirt is made of cotton or the current synthetic 'very cool' brand. However, there is an even bigger force happening that benefits xzx playing style :D There are 3 reasons for this collar up style. One u gave already, the third one is somewhat neutral as its benefit cancel its drawback. Only the main mechanism remain unclaimed ;)

[cooler]

Hint: think of one motosport that is similar to badminton. If you do, this mechanism and cheung mentioned mechanism will be highly visible and obvious LOL ;), it

[Ben Beckman]

It's true about Xia, he wears his collar up because he is an eric cantona fan who also wore his collar up. It was written in the all england programme in an article on the chinese players and their dedication. Fu Haifeng also loves Manchester United.

[cooler]

It's true about Xia, he wears his collar up because he is an eric cantona fan who also wore his collar up. It was written in the all england programme in an article on the chinese players and their dedication. Fu Haifeng also loves Manchester United.

True enough, i won't doubt that part about that it came from eric cantona. However, if the purpose work for eric in soccer, it will work in badminton too. If Xia copy eric, then why does eric rolls up his collar? The technical reason is the same here. From photos below, eric's collar isn't up all the time, JUST LIKE in Xia's case. So, the question remains, what purpose of wearing that style serve? Plus a new question, why have both collar up and down cases?? :p

photos
#1: portrait, collar down
#2: collar down
#3: collar half down
#4: same game as #3, collar up
#5: collar down
#6: collar up
#7: collar down

[Ben Beckman]

I would like to say that it is a fashion statement as both eric cantono and xia xuanze are both two people who are into fashion. Xia does always have his collar up but sometimes it falls down a bit during a game. Not sure about eric cantona though, could be a good reason that I don't know of.

[cooler]

Yes, i dont disagree that fashion do play a role for them. However, it is reasonable to say that fashion is kept only if it is also functional too. For Ex. Some tournaments have courts with bad glaring lighting, why don't xia, or any badminton players wear sunglasses while playing? I think sunglasses look cool on court :cool: Furthermore, jewellery also looks good on guys too you know. :rolleyes:

Photos of Xia on his collar 'down' days

[Ben Beckman]

I think the sunglasses comment is a bit stupid cooler, they do look cool but a bit im-practical for badminton. There possibly could be a reason for the collar thing but if there is, how come none of the other top players have their collars up?

[cooler]

I think the sunglasses comment is a bit stupid cooler, they do look cool but a bit im-practical for badminton. There possibly could be a reason for the collar thing but if there is, how come none of the other top players have their collars up?

That was the whole point of my sunglasses post, they look cool (fashion statement) but impractical, same reason you gave for xia and eric having collar up, it's a fashion statement :rolleyes: However, unlike sunglasses, xia and eric like collar up, same question as before, why? I'm sure xia and eric aren't stewbet. :rolleyes:

[Neil Nicholls]

Neil, i think your situation would make a great experiment to further our understanding in this subject. Let us know how you performed versus your expectation :) I think from your weekend tournament, the answer may emerge while you're duking it out on the court :)

Well, I didn't change it then but I did this week.
On Tuesday my hair was something like a cross between Nathan Robertson and Andy Wood. (people had started comparing me to the Hair Bear Bunch, for those that remember the cartoon)
Played a club night and was well hot (as has been usual recently). 4 t-shirts

Wednesday, had a drastic cut. Now very short (for me) and it is sort of naturally spiky.

Thursday night, different club (more running) and not so hot. 1 t-shirt.

So just to confirm, even though it may be obvious, playing badminton with long hair makes you hotter, sweat more, and get more dehydrated than with short hair.

[cooler]

I think the sunglasses comment is a bit stupid cooler, they do look cool but a bit im-practical for badminton. There possibly could be a reason for the collar thing but if there is, how come none of the other top players have their collars up?

As no one yet had come up with the reason why the collar up advantage (cheung did listed one), let me show another example where a player (elena dementieva) choses an outfit that exude both function and fashion as designed, not rolled up later by the player. I think it's very attractive AND functionally made. I wish that yonex can make one or some like that for badminton. I know some MS player in some clubs roll up racquet arm shirt sleeves.


Note that the collar isnt made to be folded down.

[laughable c.]

That was the whole point of my sunglasses post, they look cool (fashion statement) but impractical, same reason you gave for xia and eric having collar up, it's a fashion statement :rolleyes: However, unlike sunglasses, xia and eric like collar up, same question as before, why? I'm sure xia and eric aren't stewbet. :rolleyes:

the s-glasses may be fashionable, but it wouldn't be very appropriate on a badminton court... somehow looks/feels odd. also, they would be more of a hindrance, deterrent to the player, wouldn't it.. might impair the vision , block out the lighting considerably.. just the same as why it isn't advisable to wear them during tennis.

i never thought it was impractical for xia to have his collar up though.. the only reason i can think of for why they don't do so on all occasions is; it's not entirely in the name of fashion (where does that even come in?) but maybe it's the draught...hah! absurd huh? .. for me it would be annoying to have cold air around my neck!!

[cooler]

the s-glasses may be fashionable, but it wouldn't be very appropriate on a badminton court... somehow looks/feels odd. also, they would be more of a hindrance, deterrent to the player, wouldn't it.. might impair the vision , block out the lighting considerably.. just the same as why it isn't advisable to wear them during tennis.

i never thought it was impractical for xia to have his collar up though.. the only reason i can think of for why they don't do so on all occasions is; it's not entirely in the name of fashion (where does that even come in?) but maybe it's the draught...hah! absurd huh? .. for me it would be annoying to have cold air around my neck!!

no no no, u got it wrong. Ben Beckman had said collar up is all about fashion and i said no, and gave the example of s-glasses. If it's all about fashion, s-glasses is very fashionable but not used on court because it has negative functionality. Same logic on collar up, some players wont do it if it has negative functionality.

LOL, there is reasons why collar up isnt use all the time by XIA :p :p :p LOL
guess why?

[Dill]

As for me I find the polo shirt collars are either stiff or very limp, the limp ones are softer and do not rub against the neck as much (like last seasons blue and green Yonex with zip front) the collar will not stand up and you do not have to put it up because the collar does not rub on the back of your neck.

On the other hand the dark and light blue one with the zip front has a more rigid collar which rubs on the back of the neck and I personally feel if you put the collar up it rubs less at a more sensitive area on the neck and is more comfortable.

Anyone else?

As for Dementieva, her top is simillar to the Yonex very cool cycling top issued this year and has a collar not meant to be folded because it is not long enough. But if you wear it you have to serve using a lot of slice and very slowly :D

[cooler]

As for me I find the polo shirt collars are either stiff or very limp, the limp ones are softer and do not rub against the neck as much (like last seasons blue and green Yonex with zip front) the collar will not stand up and you do not have to put it up because the collar does not rub on the back of your neck.

On the other hand the dark and light blue one with the zip front has a more rigid collar which rubs on the back of the neck and I personally feel if you put the collar up it rubs less at a more sensitive area on the neck and is more comfortable.

Anyone else?

As for Dementieva, her top is simillar to the Yonex very cool cycling top issued this year and has a collar not meant to be folded because it is not long enough. But if you wear it you have to serve using a lot of slice and very slowly :D

can u post a pic, i can't seem to find it on net.

[laughable c.]

no no no, u got it wrong. Ben Beckman had said collar up is all about fashion and i said no, and gave the example of s-glasses. If it's all about fashion, s-glasses is very fashionable but not used on court because it has negative functionality. Same logic on collar up, some players wont do it if it has negative functionality.

AAAHHH! but i wish someone could shed a light on the -ve functionality of having collars up... collars up don't work for every tom, dick and harry, i've noticed...


guess why?

???? i wouldn't know.. i guess my theory IS quite ridiculous though..almost hilarious..

[Dill]

can u post a pic, i can't seem to find it on net.

Here goes, the new Yonex "Very Cool" cycling style top, still trying to find the other two. Might prove difficult since they are a year old.

[cooler]

AAAHHH! but i wish someone could shed a light on the -ve functionality of having collars up... collars up don't work for every tom, dick and harry, i've noticed...



???? i wouldn't know.. i guess my theory IS quite ridiculous though..almost hilarious..

1. Yes, that's why it really hasnt taken off. Each player have preference to style, sweat excretion, speed, etc.

2. LOL, is that's why your nic is laughable c? ;)

[laughable c.]

2. LOL, is that's why your nic is laughable c? ;)

heheh! when i start laughing, most of thetime i can't stop. people findthat amusing initially.. but eventually they get sick of it. even i get tired sometimes... !!

[X Ball]

heheh! when i start laughing, most of thetime i can't stop. people findthat amusing initially.. but eventually they get sick of it. even i get tired sometimes... !!

Why not change to crying -- sometimes the tear glands need to exercise too. A good cry is bound to boost your senses.:D