discrimination [Archive] - Badminton Central Discussion Forums

druss

02-03-2010, 04:46 PM

Descrimination, selfishness, self preservation... etc. are all part of human nature but that does not mean we should just let ourselves fall into these modes of action. My personal pet peeve is against bad drivers. This is a type of discrimination but it just gets under my skin.

As an asian growing up in Canada in the late 70's early 80's I faced my share of racism. I chose not to pick an english sounding name so I grew up with quite a bit of name calling and taunting. This taught me early on the pain associated with any type of discrimination so as an adult I try my best not to be swayed by my baser side.

staiger

02-03-2010, 05:41 PM

extremenanopowe

02-03-2010, 05:55 PM

Yup. Once you are being discriminated before, you'll tend to be more humble and your perspective opens up. Still discrimination still happen everywhere. eg. Recently as the economies being battered, lots of so called locals/residents are not keen on bringing in foreigners. It'll take time to settle in of course. Badminton typically happens when a new player with lesser skill tries to join in. Anyway, as long as they respect the seniors, that should be ok. ;) Just have to find ways to gel in. ;)

Pemuda

02-03-2010, 07:36 PM

On the contrary, badminton often unites different races in Indonesia

Hmmm ... not too sure about that, dude. Maybe em' ethnic chinese businessmen & shopowners in Jakarta chinatown or those who lived in predominantly chinese neighbourhood back in 97' or so may think differently.

Pemuda

02-03-2010, 07:38 PM

to me thats more of an "american pie" rather than discrimination :)

Bro, you kinda missed my question. Do you discriminate?

venkatesh

02-03-2010, 10:51 PM

Everyone's a little bit racist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbQiSVeQwVQ)---Avenue Q

Yoppy

02-03-2010, 11:12 PM

Hmmm ... not too sure about that, dude. Maybe em' ethnic chinese businessmen & shopowners in Jakarta chinatown or those who lived in predominantly chinese neighbourhood back in 97' or so may think differently.

well i did not say that discrimination do not exist in indonesia. but what im saying is that in many more occasion (eg. at clubs or tournaments) badminton has bring many races closer together and it gives them something in common that they can be proud of

Yoppy

02-03-2010, 11:17 PM

Bro, you kinda missed my question. Do you discriminate?

Under your definition of discrimination, yes i do. But c'mon bro, thats not discrimination. A discrimination must have a negative element to it such as hatred, violent etc which is based on for example race, religion, nationality, gender. So do i practice discrimination? NO, Im againts it

druss

02-03-2010, 11:46 PM

Under your definition of discrimination, yes i do. But c'mon bro, thats not discrimination. A discrimination must have a negative element to it such as hatred, violent etc which is based on for example race, religion, nationality, gender. So do i practice discrimination? NO, Im againts it

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. While not proud of it I admit that I discriminate... everyone does. If you don't think you do then you need to take a close look at yourself and be honest.

I try to avoid bums on the street and will cross the street if I have to. I don't like heavy perfume so will leave as it causes me to sneeze. While I don't hate very large/fat people I dislike it when I have to sit beside them in a plane, movie theater... etc.

So do you discriminate? Remember that it's not always negative. You can discriminate by granting favor to friends over non friends.

–verb (used without object) 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit

So, let's face it, we're human and we don't always act the way we believe we should. What's important is that we TRY, not always that we succeed.

Yoppy

02-04-2010, 03:07 AM

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. While not proud of it I admit that I discriminate... everyone does. If you don't think you do then you need to take a close look at yourself and be honest.

I try to avoid bums on the street and will cross the street if I have to. I don't like heavy perfume so will leave as it causes me to sneeze. While I don't hate very large/fat people I dislike it when I have to sit beside them in a plane, movie theater... etc.

So do you discriminate? Remember that it's not always negative. You can discriminate by granting favor to friends over non friends.

–verb (used without object) 1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit

So, let's face it, we're human and we don't always act the way we believe we should. What's important is that we TRY, not always that we succeed.

Here's the definition under Oxford dictionary:
discriminate

/diskrimminayt/ • verb 1 recognize a distinction. 2 make an unjust distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, ***, or age.

Dont give me a lecture about honesty druss...

You should read my earlier comment, i clearly said that i do make preferences in my actions. But I just dont agree if those actions eg. avoiding strong parfume and fat person can be called/categorised as discriminative actions. To me word "differentiate" is more siuted to the situation. To discriminate there has to be an element of injustice and negativity

Let me ask you this, have you ever avoid someone just because of his/her race, ***, or age? Lets be honest

Pemuda

02-04-2010, 07:38 AM

well i did not say that discrimination do not exist in indonesia. but what im saying is that in many more occasion (eg. at clubs or tournaments) badminton has bring many races closer together and it gives them something in common that they can be proud of

Dude, slow down. I am not saying you said discrimination does not exist in Indonesia. You said; On the contrary, badminton often unites different races in Indonesia. My point is em' ethnic chinese Indonesians who worked in Jakarta Chinatown or lived in predominant chinese neighbourhood back in 97' may disagree.

Pemuda

02-04-2010, 07:46 AM

Pemuda

02-04-2010, 07:51 AM

Have I ever avoided someone just because of his/her race, *** or age??

Hell yes!!!

druss

02-04-2010, 12:22 PM

Here's the definition under Oxford dictionary:
discriminate

/diskrimminayt/ • verb 1 recognize a distinction. 2 make an unjust distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, ***, or age.

Dont give me a lecture about honesty druss...

You should read my earlier comment, i clearly said that i do make preferences in my actions. But I just dont agree if those actions eg. avoiding strong parfume and fat person can be called/categorised as discriminative actions. To me word "differentiate" is more siuted to the situation. To discriminate there has to be an element of injustice and negativity

Let me ask you this, have you ever avoid someone just because of his/her race, ***, or age? Lets be honest

First of all, you left out the first part of the definition... it's says "especially" but not ONLY...

It uses age, *** and race as examples but if you treat any category of people differently then it's discrimination. Don't try to make yourself feel better by calling it something else. The word Discrimination has a negative connotation to it but the definition of the word is "to discriminate". A listed synonym is "discernment".

I'm not saying you're a bad person, or I am or anyone is... I'm sayiing that everyone discriminates regardless of what you want to call it. It's just a word, what you're having trouble with are the negative connations associated with the word.

I also like to think of myself as a "discriminating shopper" which means that I take my time to weight all the positives and negatives between various brands before choosing the best one. Does this make me a bad person too?

ViningWolff

02-04-2010, 01:35 PM

I disciminate again the shuttle. Anytime I see it comes over to my side of the court, I had to make sure it goes back from where it came. :D

Well, I also discrimiate again azzholes.

I don't recall being discriminated against when it coems to badminton. Had some rather odd looks when I was the only white dude who was at the All Korean club in Los Angeles a few years back... but soon as bombed a smash, it was all good.

Yoppy

02-04-2010, 04:27 PM

druss

02-04-2010, 04:35 PM

The only thing I've been arguing is the semantics of the word discrimination. I view negative discrimination the same way you do but based on the root word of discriminate I'm sayng that everyone does it to certain degree. Some take it to the extreme of out right racism, others do it to a lesser case such as having a favorite store because of bad service at another store.

I read an article about a hiring agency which would not let employers use the words "hard working" and "honest" in their for hire ads because they are discriminating against lazy and dishonest people. Well, they are but that does not mean they don't have the right to do it.

Take out all the emotional context with the word discrimination and you'll see my point of view.

Yoppy

02-04-2010, 04:42 PM

@druss:

You left out a more important word there buddy. You should concern more about the word “UNJUST”. As long as you can justify you action, then I have nothing against that. You can do shopping and choose whatever brand you like offcourse, there nothing UNJUST about that.

You said “It's just a word, what you're having trouble with are the negative connations associated with the word.” Maybe I am Druss

So what word would you use to describe when a human race got killed and raped systematically based on their racial hatred for a long time?? what word would you use to describe you own time in the 70s and 80s in Canada when you often called by names? Are we talking about the same word here Druss?? So please tell me how to draw a fine line??

druss

02-04-2010, 04:58 PM

Just because oxford used the word unjust does not make it true... look at all the other dictionaries and you not all use that word.

www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)

–noun 1.an act or instance of discriminating.2.treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Merriam-Webster
Main Entry: dis·crim·i·na·tion
Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 1648

1 a : the act of discriminating (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminating) b : the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently
2 : the quality or power of finely distinguishing
3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminating) categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination> synonyms see discernment (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discernment)

Most people only use the word in the negative sense but that does not mean that's the only way it CAN be used.

I think you're getting way too worked up over this. Did I face discrimination, racism, when I was younger? Yes I did. Do I condone racism now? No, I don't. Do I think women and old people in general drive worse than I do? Yes, I do.

You don't need to be racist or kill and rape to discriminate. You're so stuck on your definition of the word and how you've only ever used it, and heard it used, negatively that that's all you think about.

As a side note, did you know that "I feel good" is not correct english? Yet how many people say it? When you ask someone "how are you today?" how many of them reply "good" even though it's not correct?

English is one of the hardest languages to master with all the double meanings, connotations, incorrect usage, slang and just plain bad spelling that too many words lose their meaning.

Not to lecture too much on english but how many know the difference between "there", "they're" and "their"? English is such a bastardised language that almost no one speaks it the way they would write it for an english paper in school. If they do then they wonder "what's wrong with what I wrote"?

So is there a fine line between discriminating and not discriminating? No, there isn't. You either do or you don't. I dont' care either way. Is there a fine line between what you think discrimination is and mine? Maybe there is. Do I think that racism and not liking to sit beside large people on a plane are both discrimination? Yes I do, since they both meet the definition.

Yoppy

02-04-2010, 05:32 PM

So are you saying that you should be punished for not liking to sit beside large people on a plane as much as practising rasicm? Of course not. Being a racist is wrong, not liking to sit beside large people on a plane its not wrong. Therefore to clearly divine the 2 different situations, I would rather use two different words. One being “discriminate” and perhaps the other would be “distinguish”. As you said words can have different meaning and over time has lost their meaning. So why don’t we use it correctly? If you can use a more precise word, then why don’t use it? Rather than being too generalise and grey

druss

02-04-2010, 05:48 PM

I really don't want to take this much further but you don't punish people or not based on the definition of a word but on their actions. Also, whether you get punished or not is not my decision nor yours. That's why there are laws and they will decide and define what should and should not be punished.

Yes those are two different situations but the word still fits. Distinguish means to tell the difference between two, or multiple, things. As in "can you distinguish the difference between the two balls?". It is not an action, you cannot distinguish against a person.

A different example of this are firearms. Many people have negative connations to the word and yet it is just an object. Many horrific crimes have been commited with them but the gun itself is just a gun. It's the person behind the gun that commits the crimes. In the same way, discrimination is a word that describes a certain way of acting. Whether the action is negative or positive does not change the meaning of the word.

You can use whatever words you wish to. As to using the words correctly, you need to understand them before you can do so. In my opinion, I believe the dictionary.com definition is the best, non biased with the least emotional context meaning of the word.

As I said, I don't want to get into an argument here. We both agree that certain things are wrong and I think we're just wasting time now discussing the meaning of a word. Whether a word can be used to describe a negative action or a positive action does not change either the word or the action.

"A rose, by any other name, would smell just as sweet".

Pemuda

02-04-2010, 08:23 PM

@pemuda:

you can called me whiter than white or whatever, it don’t bother me dude. We simply don’t agree on how to view the matter. Choosing a better looking partner in badminton is not a discriminative action to me.

I come from a chinese background and was born in Indonesia. And I myself endured 20 years of a real painful discrimination against my race. So im just here to just trying promote that discrimination is simply wrong.

So lets say you walked into a taxi at night then realised that it’s a taxi with an Indian driver, do you walk away of that taxi just because the driver comes from a race that you don’t like?

Sorry to ask you this dude, I just want to make things straight. There is a fine line between discrimination the way I know it and the ones you and druss knows it.

Mr. Yoppy,

Please dont take it the wrong way. I meant well when I said I am proud of you. Seriously. No pun intended. Its hard to come across someone who dont discriminate. You are indeed special.

I guess badminton didnt really 'unite' all the races in Indonesia, huh? Yes, what happened in 97 was wrong.

As for me getting into a cab with an Indian driver ... in the first place, why did you chose Indian? Care to tell me why you specifically select the cab driver to be Indian? Why not a Malay driver? or a Chinese driver? or maybe a Punjabi driver? or maybe a native American driver of the Sitting Bull clan?

Ok back to your question ... me in the cab ... err... am I alone or with a friend and is that cab driver a skinny looking chap or is he all muscles?? Anyway, let me assumed that I am alone and I am now in the cab and I dont like the driver because of his race, ok to answer your question, I will not get out because its pretty tough to get a cab in downtown KL. During the ride, I will not talk to the driver and once I reached my destination, I will pay him/her (we do have some women cab drivers) in coins (1sen coins) instead. So, is that discrimination?

Yoppy

02-04-2010, 09:34 PM

Pemuda

02-04-2010, 10:10 PM

Let’s take Chandra and Sigit for example. Sigit comes from a native Indonesian background and Chandra comes from a Chinese background. There are also many other Indonesian players with Chinese background who proudly play for the red and white flag. Indonesia also have many different ethnic groups eg. Javanese, Balinese, etc etc. They unite and blend together in a friendship and good spirit thanks to the sport called “Badminton”. For the people watching on TV it’s a form encouragement that they can live hand in hand together.

As I said I don’t really care of what you think of me as much as im sure you don’t care of what I think of you. Its just make me wonder, do you really read my earlier comment. I just don’t think its right to categories “discrimination” your way.

As for the Indian driver, it was only example. I could have choosen a Malay or Chinese driver or whatever, whats the different? I did not say that Indian is bad!! Its just an example dude.

Let me quote you: “I will not get out because its pretty tough to get a cab in downtown KL”

If you can get a cab easily, would you get out? Just because the driver comes from a particular race

You see, a discrimination is an act (either word or physical actions) not a theory. The negative concept it self comes from within, its up to the person whether to apply or otherwise. However, one should ask if they can hide their feeling forever? Therefore I would argue that, lets say a person really hates a particular race/religion, at some point it will boils up and showed up on his/her actions/words.

Let me quote you again: “Have I ever avoided someone just because of his/her race, *** or age?? Hell yes!!!”

Really?? Example??

Dude,

Let me give you a real life example. LCW is chinese. LWW/CTF, they are chinese too. They all represent our Jalur Gemilang proudly. Yes, sports in Malaysia just like in Indonesia brings the masses together. We cheer together, we laugh together, we celebrate together etc etc. But are we united?? Personally, like you, I would like to think so but the reality is no, we are not. Though we cheer our athletes together, we are clearly divided. Recently, we had a few places of worships nicely 'decorated' among other things. I mean it is nice to say that badminton unites us, but in reality its a different story altogether.

If you dont care what I think of you, its fine. I respect your stand. I have no problems with that. But no matter what, I still think you are a unique person because you dont discriminate.

I was just curious why you chose the driver being an Indian thats all.

Would I have gotten out of the cab if I could catch the next one easily just because of the driver's race? No, because it is still a hassle to catch the next cab.

Really? Yes. Example? Well, I will never go out with fat chicks on a date.

T-maker

02-05-2010, 07:45 AM

Whoa.....

hold on... seems kinda stray off -topic... but i thought this thread is about 'discrimination in badminton'....:D:D:D

racist ? well, yea...i am...:p:p

Monster

02-05-2010, 08:36 AM

Racism is wrong but it's part of life. Life is never perfect and sometimes life really sucks.

Yoppy: I feel the pain for the Chinese people in the 97 riots. Those acts were totally inhumane. Discrimination is everywhere, but with corruption and nitwits on the job, discrimination is even more magnified in ID.

Pemuda: You know where Yoppy is heading to. So chill dude.

Now, let's get back on track. Discrimination in Badminton - Yes, a lot of skills discriminating groups. I'm one of them, to some extent. But that is only so because you really want to have fun. And often, fun can mean more competitive games while for some, fun can mean whacking around aimlessly while having a good laugh when a silly shot is made. People have different views to Badminton or any other sports, and so they have varying expectations. Discrimination is everywhere....

ViningWolff

02-05-2010, 03:20 PM

Okay, I also discriminate against Yonex.

Yes Yonex.

Mostly beacuse I find the majority of their gear way way overpriced when it cames to badminton.

staiger

02-05-2010, 05:20 PM

I think this topic is about discrimination due to ethic in badminton and nothing to do with how good looking your mix double partner is .

Yoppy

02-07-2010, 09:52 AM

Pemuda

02-07-2010, 11:00 PM

Let me just wrap things up, this thread innitially questioned if discrimination exists in badminton. My answer is YES it exists under both my definition as well as under druss's or pemuda's definition, there is no doubt about that. I think most, if not all, of us know that already and enough said about it too. So whats the point of saying how bad discrimination (inside and outside badminton) is in this forum? Regardless there are many incidents around the world just like what happend in Malaysia recently, that does not proof anything. On the other hand there is no doubt that badminton is a positive force towards many racial/religion/etc issues in many societies

Its IMO that the discussion should be directed toward the opposite, that is the fact that badminton as well as many other sports around the world act as an unifying form againts dsicrmination/racism/war etc etc. Especially in badminton, i think its something that we all can contribute

BTW: the incident in INA was in May 98 not 97

You are right, sports like badminton brings us together. But whether it unites us, that is a different question in my opinion.

If we look at your below statement;

Let’s take Chandra and Sigit for example. Sigit comes from a native Indonesian background and Chandra comes from a Chinese background. There are also many other Indonesian players with Chinese background who proudly play for the red and white flag.

I think ... in my opinion we all subconsciously discriminate. I mean, Sigit was born in Indonesia. Chandra too was born in Indonesia, I am sure he did not come over to Indonesia on some boat from Jiangsu or something. Thus both Sigit and Chandra should just be Indonesians, period. Whats the native and chinese thingy? Chandra being born in Indonesia, shouldnt he be considered as a native as well?

We dont live in a perfect world simply because we are not perfect.