(Ideas'R'us) Improve the ability to distinguish fake/genuine racquets

[newbi]

I have an idea, but this basically requires the company to implement a system.

How about instead of having the serial number exposed on the racket right from the beginning.. apply a coat of silvery protective layer (u know .. those scratch n save type of layer).

When a customer buys a racket (brand new one). He will then:

1. scratch off the silvery layer.
2. Register the serial number online. This, requires the racket company to keep track the serial numbers on every racket they manufacture.
3. The webpage will show the racket type (eg. AT800.. etc) once the serial number is entered. (kinda like a confirmation thing)
4. User then input their personal information
6. User chooses a password they desire, so if the rackets changes hand later, the new user can enter new personal information (by going into the online system again)
7. Register complete

this will be hard for fake (i suppose) to imitate because,

1. once a serial number is registered, i cannot be register again.. Hence, they cant just buy a genuine and make 1 million copies of it.

2. fake companies cant just use a formula to generate these serial numbers. Well that's if the genuine company implement the generate number system well.. but basically random (no pattern, no nothing)


so basically.. once a racket is made, the company will input the serial # in the database.. and waiting to be registered.

What do you guys think?

P.S. the above system HELPS to distinguish fakes and genuines... but it doesn't prevent people from buying fakes.. (because you can't see the serial number and even if you can you dunno if the serial number is valid or not)

[Mr. Anderson]

P.S. the above system HELPS to distinguish fakes and genuines... but it doesn't prevent people from buying fakes.. (because you can't see the serial number and even if you can you dunno if the serial number is valid or not)
Exactly, the system can't stop people from BUYING fakes, so there is no point to it.

[Sgt_Strider]

That is a very good idea.

[Neil Nicholls]

Exactly, the system can't stop people from BUYING fakes, so there is no point to it.
there's a difference between intentionally buying a fake and being conned by being sold a fake when you want a real one.

[newbi]

Exactly, the system can't stop people from BUYING fakes, so there is no point to it.

not really, u see, alot of people here have posted in BF about if they have bought fake or not..

if we have a method that can prove if a racket is fake or not 100%, then it acutally prevents people from buying fake in a way, because then, the person will know not to get rackets from the place where he got the last racket.. at least it will "discourage" these fakes

as we all know, fakes nowadays are getting better and better at imitating.. sooner or later.. there will be "perfect fakes" around.. and these "security features" on the racket itself will become less and less effective..

this is why i suggested a system like this.. where these "security features" are not on the racket itself.. but something the genuine companies can CONTROL ... they can certainly control the serial number databases of their online website if system is implemented correctly... this, is something fake manufactures cannot imitate.

conversely, if there is no certain way to distinguish a fake and a genuine,
we might mistaken some genuine sellers as fake sellers or vice versa.... and that can create quite a big mess..

and IF people want to buy fake intentionally, they can be sure to know where to get them with the system also i guess..... :(

[Lobber]

this is kinda of a good idea but it will prove to be a hassle..

[Kai91]

there's a difference between intentionally buying a fake and being conned by being sold a fake when you want a real one.
well thats true.... however if thats the case.... Yonex will have to spend more money... do coding for the website make a website for different country distribution code.... and the thing is not everyone have internet at home even 99% of the population in the world shuld have... thus this idea will only bring:

1) More charges to our racket
2) More hassle

the benefits is:

1) Able to distinguish a conman

[Mr. Anderson]

there's a difference between intentionally buying a fake and being conned by being sold a fake when you want a real one.
What I meant was that this system couldn't prevent unwary consumers from unintentionally buying fakes because of conning.

And I still think this system isn of no value and impractical. If you need to ask whether you've bought a real racket, why buy it in the first place even though you were in doubt? (You could say he/she was conned into buying one, but then if one is alert enough to doubt the authenticity of the racket after buying, then why still buy it?)

[WhyrlWynd]

this system will not prevent people from figuring out how the serial number is derived and inputting all of it and hogged the accounts. so even if one bought a real racket, their serial number might be occupied.

[meteo]

This reminds me of the huge CS: CZ frenzy that went on when it was released. Some people got the leaked version ahead of the release date and registered with fake numbers. It turned out the numbers weren't so "fake" after all since people with those numbers couldn't register. The helpline was horrible and the consumers found out that its a lot easier to simply register with fake numbers themselves. :D

I don't know about you guys, but I hate product registration. They tell you they won't send unsolicitated mail, but they do anyway... If I already know that I bought an authentic racket because I bought it from an authorized Yonex retailer (which all of you should be doing in the first place) why would I bother registering?

Also, considering that some country's Yonex websites haven't been updated in YEARS, would Yonex be willing to shell out loads of money to satisfy the small percentage of people who were too cheap to buy at retail price like the rest of us? I'd be pretty unhappy if Yonex rackets cost $5 more to all of us because a handful of people were too cheap to buy at a retailer in the first place.

[LazyBuddy]

The idea has good intention, however:

1. If buying a 2nd hand racket, as the serial # is already there (w/o the scratchable protection), how I am going to tell whether it's a fake or real, w/o having logging on line?

2. The fakes can simple use the same "layer" trick, which makes the problem even worse:

2.1 Fake seller can "proudly" refuse to release serial # info on ebay, as they can say, "how could i know with it being covered???"

2.2 When you purchase 1 online, you won't find out it's fake or not, until u register. What's the point then? You already paid, and being robbed... :cool:

[newbi]

how could they register with fake numbers when the numbers contain in the database only contains numbers on rackets that were actually made?

oh btw, people can't "hog" all the serial numbers.. because there is silvery layer.. if its scratched off but was selling as a brand new racket.. then ppl will know not to buy it..

[newbi]

The idea has good intention, however:

1. If buying a 2nd hand racket, as the serial # is already there (w/o the scratchable protection), how I am going to tell whether it's a fake or real, w/o having logging on line?

2. The fakes can simple use the same "layer" trick, which makes the problem even worse:

2.1 Fake seller can "proudly" refuse to release serial # info on ebay, as they can say, "how could i know with it being covered???"

2.2 When you purchase 1 online, you won't find out it's fake or not, until u register. What's the point then? You already paid, and being robbed... :cool:


1. maybe they could post a screenshot of their racket.. and a screen shot of the page ? (since the page contains serial number and type of racket and the owner's name) i m sure most of people have email nowadays ... thats if the transaction isnt based on online (tell ur friend to send u the screen shots by email!)

but buying 2nd hand racket is never easy even now.. u take even more risk of getting a fake than a real.. for one, the heat shrink plastic handle cover is gone (so far i dont see any fake could imitate YET, or they can now already?)...

2.1 u have a good point.. i never really thought about ebay.. but people can make up anything on ebay even now anyways.. since they dont own a store (most of them).. but only individuals

2.2 well think about this.. if i purchase 1 online from a site or a person that sells large volume of rackets.. and we have a bullet proof method to distinguish fake or not.. IF the person is selling fake.. that saves hundreds of other ppl from buying from him

on the other hand.. if we cant be sure if a racket is fake or not.. other people might not believe u.. cuz they might just think u have something against the seller or sth..

at least the system gives some hard "proof" on a racket is fake or not

[kwun]

the intention of the thread is good. ie. to find a robust way to distinguish if a racket is genuine or fake.

however, the reality is that while it may not be an impossible thing to do, it will be tough and potentially expensive to implement.

imho, any type of textual identifier will be tough to make unique. the serial number that Yonex is currently using is hardly robust, we are already seeing fakers able to imitate it pretty closely.

a serial number with a scratch-off protection is essentially textual identification. all fakers need to do is to get a few of them and figure out the pattern as we already did in the serial number thread. sooner or later they will catch up with Yonex.

are there anybody among us with solid knowledge of digital security? i believe if we can embed a small (ie. cheap) digital chip in each yonex racket that contains some form of encrypted information of the racket, and only Yonex has the ability to encrypt and decrypt the information, that will make it robust. all Yonex racket then will have to be accompanied by this chip that only Yonex can manufacture. if we plug the chip into a USB device into the computer, the user can then connect to the Yonex HQ to verify the racket.

of course, the problem still remains and that is if a customer is at the badminton shop, how would he be able to verify that the racket that he is about to pay for is genuine?

[newbi]

a serial number with a scratch-off protection is essentially textual identification. all fakers need to do is to get a few of them and figure out the pattern as we already did in the serial number thread. sooner or later they will catch up with Yonex.

as i suggested earlier.. the way of generating these serial number must be totally random (no patterns. no nothing)

for eg.. a digit can contain all alphanumeric symbols (36 permutation)
so if a serial number consist 6 digits, there will be 36^6 permutation.. and thats quite a big number or if necessary add 1 or 2 more digits.. permutation goes up exponentially (is yonex using this already? cuz i never really checked the serial number thread)

of course, fake companies can use bruteforce methods on the yonex website to try to find valid serial numbers.. but these can all be avoid with a good implement of online system

wat i m trying to say is that computer security can be much more reliable than hardware (racket) security (eg. engraved serial number.. etc) ..

well, i m not saying my method is bulletproof or anything.. but maybe its a step a forward to the right direction.. (just an abstract idea afterall)

and the chip idea is acutally pretty good =) but it might screws up the chip because when playing badminton, racket can experience quite a bit of vibrations..

very well, mayb if we continue on the discussion, we can find a very good way to eliminate or at least discourage these fakes! i will check back the thread later =)

[kwun]

well, i m not saying my method is bulletproof or anything.. but maybe its a step a forward to the right direction.. (just an abstract idea afterall)

and the chip idea is acutally pretty good =) but it might screws up the chip because when playing badminton, racket can experience quite a bit of vibrations..

very well, mayb if we continue on the discussion, we can find a very good way to eliminate or at least discourage these fakes! i will check back the thread later =)
Yonex should totally hire us as consultants... ;)

i proposed the chip instead of textual for a couple of reasons.

a digital chip is very difficult to replicate. almost impossible to reverse engineer such a chip unless one is equipped with very expensive equipment. ones that fakers are surely not willing to pay for. furthermore, a digital chip can store much more information than text. a 1024 bit key can be easily stored and then read out electronically.

and a small chip can be quite cheap to produce, it may add dollar or two to the cost of the racket, but if Yonex cares enough to do it, they may justify the cost. there is also the cost of developing such a chip that Yonex also need to take into account as well.

as for the physical integrity of the chip, the most logical location to hide it will be the racket handle, the most space available as well as the place that sees the least physical impact.

[newbi]

Yonex should totally hire us as consultants... ;)

a digital chip is very difficult to replicate. almost impossible to reverse engineer such a chip unless one is equipped with very expensive equipment. ones that fakers are surely not willing to pay for. furthermore, a digital chip can store much more information than text. a 1024 bit key can be easily stored and then read out electronically.

and a small chip can be quite cheap to produce, it may add dollar or two to the cost of the racket, but if Yonex cares enough to do it, they may justify the cost. there is also the cost of developing such a chip that Yonex also need to take into account as well.



haha very good! i totally agree on digital chip can provide more space for information storage.

as for the buying brand new racket from shop part.. yonex could introduce a seal on top of where u plug the usb (or other adaptor) .. this seal should be a 1 time seal.. (u know bottle drinks have vaccum seal, sth similar here).. kinda sends a message to customer like.. if the seal if broken.. they might risk buying a fake racket or already registered racket..

another reason that yonex should implement this system (chip or wat not, as long as security is not only based on the racket itself) is that this will encourage people to buy brand new rackets instead of second hand.. since for second hand the seal is already broken (buyer taking more risk of buying fake products).. these "adv. technology dependent" security features should acutally increase yonex's revenue...!

the better fakes become (assuming they can make a "lookalike" fake chip, that doesnt register), the more people will depend on these improved security features.. and the less people will buy 2nd hand racket.. hence have to buy new rackets........ talking about "jeung gai jau gai" .. (using other's plan as advantage to own plan) :cool:

and yes.. should definately hire us as consultants :p

[annab]

No need to reinvent the wheel. Yonex should just copy Rolex and have their customers register their new, original rackets into their database.

Rolex owners have certificates of authenticity with their watches, and anyone who owns one has incentive to register for 3 reasons:

after sales service
lifetime warranty
theft prevention
If someone wants to buy a second hand Rolex, all they need to do is check Rolex's database to see if the watch is:

genuine
under the original owner's name
This will prevent people from buying fake or stolen watches. Also, once the sale is made, then the new owner is registered into Rolex's database and the certificate is physically transferred to the new owner (as in it's in his possession) so now he/she can avail of the after sales service and warranty.

Simple, right? And it doesn't even require any new technology (like a digital chip, whose cost will for sure be passed on to the buyers). Yonex just needs to include certificates of authenticity and a mail-in card with all their new rackets so people can register.

To implement an effective real-time, proactive anti-counterfeit measure to help their consumers, Yonex can create an online database much like software companies use to "activate" a product.

For example, if you're in doubt as to the authenticity of the new racket you are about to buy, go online and input the serials on both the shaft and the cone. The system should be able to spit out if the serials are:

valid
already registered (without disclosing the owner's details for privacy reasons)
If you're buying a new (with unbroken, shinkwrap) racket online or from a store, and the serials fail the validity test or shows that the serials are already in use, then you know that the racket you are looking at is most likely fake.

But the real issue is whether or not Yonex wants to protect their brand.

Of course, any new system that is implemented is not going to be backwards compatible as this will just introduce flaws in the system.

[LazyBuddy]

how could they register with fake numbers when the numbers contain in the database only contains numbers on rackets that were actually made?

oh btw, people can't "hog" all the serial numbers.. because there is silvery layer.. if its scratched off but was selling as a brand new racket.. then ppl will know not to buy it..

My point was, "ur method is good, to identify the fake AFTER purchase". However, it is NOT a solution to identify fake BEFORE purchase. Therefore, I am not sure if it worth all the investment (manufacture, database, etc) to adopt it. :cool:

More important, this method can't PREVENT the fake sellers to stop. Now, they even don't need to fake the serial #, as it's been COVERED. Of course, buyers will find out, but so what??? :(

[LazyBuddy]

1. maybe they could post a screenshot of their racket.. and a screen shot of the page ? (since the page contains serial number and type of racket and the owner's name) i m sure most of people have email nowadays ... thats if the transaction isnt based on online (tell ur friend to send u the screen shots by email!)

on the other hand.. if we cant be sure if a racket is fake or not.. other people might not believe u.. cuz they might just think u have something against the seller or sth..

at least the system gives some hard "proof" on a racket is fake or not

Ok, just thought about another thing:

1. Say, i bought a 2nd hand racket(real) from someone. For some reason (computer, database, or he simply try to screw me up), I can't modify the user registration with my information. What I can do??? Now, my real racket is identified as fake, and lose all its value? :crying:

2. How to modify the database? "Force" the original user to release his password to me? No way, many ppl will against this as personal information is consider as privacy. Never have to metion many ppl using same password all over the place, once he gives u one, he might need to worry about his bank account there after. :p

[neo_Rabbit]

No need to reinvent the wheel. Yonex should just copy Rolex and have their customers register their new, original rackets into their database.

Rolex owners have certificates of authenticity with their watches, and anyone who owns one has incentive to register for 3 reasons:

after sales service
lifetime warranty
theft prevention
If someone wants to buy a second hand Rolex, all they need to do is check Rolex's database to see if the watch is:

genuine
under the original owner's name
This will prevent people from buying fake or stolen watches. Also, once the sale is made, then the new owner is registered into Rolex's database and the certificate is physically transferred to the new owner (as in it's in his possession) so now he/she can avail of the after sales service and warranty.


i agree with anna here... i realli don't think yonex can be bothered to include a chip in their rackets or any new hardware that varifies a genuine racket, cos it won't affect the racket's performance, or making it worse if anything (unnecessary weight on racket). so it's not gonna be as attractive as an innovation that improves the game... so y spend money on a device that might not make as much money?

an idea that might work is to print a computer-coded barcode on the racket shaft (similar to the type that's currently used on the receipt of the hk id card). it's near impossible to duplicate.... so it should be safe. if yonex can provide easy access (such as registering at a local sports store) and some sort of incentive for ppl to register (such as discounts for stringing), then i reckon ppl wouldn't mind registering.

just some thoughts...

[LazyBuddy]

an idea that might work is to print a computer-coded barcode on the racket shaft (similar to the type that's currently used on the receipt of the hk id card). it's near impossible to duplicate.... so it should be safe. if yonex can provide easy access (such as registering at a local sports store) and some sort of incentive for ppl to register (such as discounts for stringing), then i reckon ppl wouldn't mind registering.

just some thoughts...

1. Yonex already has the bar code, on the plastic wrap of the handle. Wondering how many ppl even bother to look at it, before throwing the wrap away. :rolleyes:

2. Either bar code, or whatever "registerable" code, it's NOT going to help when ppl make purchase. WHY? How many time you will bring ur computer with you, and have internet access when u go to a sports store??? :confused: :eek: :D If no, at most u can find it afterward, which do NOT PREVENT the fake seller to give u a fake one.

[annab]

Ok, just thought about another thing:

1. Say, i bought a 2nd hand racket(real) from someone. For some reason (computer, database, or he simply try to screw me up), I can't modify the user registration with my information. What I can do??? Now, my real racket is identified as fake, and lose all its value? :crying:

2. How to modify the database? "Force" the original user to release his password to me? No way, many ppl will against this as personal information is consider as privacy. Never have to metion many ppl using same password all over the place, once he gives u one, he might need to worry about his bank account there after. :p
Two bad assumptions here that I will address.

1) There is always going to be some error (in my IT world, it's usually user error :rolleyes: ) but that's why there is customer support. If something goes wrong, there's always a real-life person to help. If for some reason, something technical goes wrong, contact support and put in a trouble ticket. In all likelihood (or the way I would set it up at least), you will have to submit your gov't issued ID, the original owner's gov't issued ID, the certificate of authenticity (that the seller was supposed to give you), and additionally you will have to execute a deed of sale or affadavit signed by both parties indicating the legal transfer of the racket. You wouldn't need the deed of sale or affadavit in a trouble-free transaction... only if you've encountered problems with the database system.

2) This is not even part of the process. You are not "forcing" the original user to release his password to you. in fact, you cannot "force" anything for that matter because then it would not be a true and legal sale.

There would be a validation process. If you've ever had to transfer a domain name, then you know what I mean. It's an effective and very simple process.

To prevent "hijacking", domain name registrars use a double validation process. One, the new owner puts in a request to transfer the domain name to their ownership. The system receives the request, and then emails the current owner listed on record to inform him/her that a request was made to transfer the domain name to another person's name.

The current owner must ACT on the email, which will provide a link to a secure area that will give the current owner a choice: APPROVE or DENY.

If he approves it, then the database is altered to reflect the new owner. If he denies it, then it's not altered.

Assuming this is a amicable transaction, why in the world would the seller NOT want to help you transition ownership in the smoothest possible manner? don't buy from him, period.

Anyway, the point is that there are a bunch of effective and simple systems already in use today by many companies that Yonex could employ to protect their consumers but they simply do not.

Look at their main website even, I've never seen a website so sparse with information about their products. They don't even have the AT800 on their site!

[annab]

1. Yonex already has the bar code, on the plastic wrap of the handle. Wondering how many ppl even bother to look at it, before throwing the wrap away. :rolleyes:

2. Either bar code, or whatever "registerable" code, it's NOT going to help when ppl make purchase. WHY? How many time you will bring ur computer with you, and have internet access when u go to a sports store??? :confused: :eek: :D If no, at most u can find it afterward, which do NOT PREVENT the fake seller to give u a fake one.
Quite the naysayer, aren't you? ;)

With regards to point 2, this is a consumer issue already. If you already suspect the store of selling fakes, don't buy there. If you want to test your luck, then go in the store, examine the racket, copy down the serials, go to the internet cafe and check them. Caveat emptor.

With regards to point 1, this is to record sales, and I doubt it encodes the serials. Stores use bar codes to control inventory. So at a glance, they can tell if they are low on stock of a particular model and need to reorder, for example.

[annab]

Just thought of another simple system to implement.

Yonex should provide a method to their consumers that would allow them to submit information about fraudulent sellers. Just look at the success of bluejeff's eBay thread.

How would people even know that this reporting tool exists? Yonex should add it to their shrinkwrap on new rackets, stickers that people use on their storefronts and other markting collateral (posters, inserts, etc). So even the fake manufacturers will have to copy that info.
Instill fear in the fake manufacturers and store owners... give power to the people!

[kwun]

Just thought of another simple system to implement.

Yonex should provide a method to their consumers that would allow them to submit information about fraudulent sellers. Just look at the success of bluejeff's eBay thread.

How would people even know that this reporting tool exists? Yonex should add it to their shrinkwrap on new rackets, stickers that people use on their storefronts and other markting collateral (posters, inserts, etc). So even the fake manufacturers will have to copy that info.
Instill fear in the fake manufacturers and store owners... give power to the people!
cunningly brilliant!

[neo_Rabbit]

1. Yonex already has the bar code, on the plastic wrap of the handle. Wondering how many ppl even bother to look at it, before throwing the wrap away. :rolleyes:

2. Either bar code, or whatever "registerable" code, it's NOT going to help when ppl make purchase. WHY? How many time you will bring ur computer with you, and have internet access when u go to a sports store??? :confused: :eek: :D If no, at most u can find it afterward, which do NOT PREVENT the fake seller to give u a fake one.
i think uv misunderstood me.. :crying: my poor poor english... sorry...
1/ that's a normal shopping centre barcode... im talking abt the ones which are composed of dots only... bit hard to explain... ppl throw the barcode away cos it doens't mean anything to them, it's jus a price tag to them.

2/ wat i was trying to was to actually have the racket scanned and registered at the checkout of the store... using the computers at the store... so all u hv to do is go to a store, have the barcode scanned by the storekeeper who can then check on the internet database if the racket is genuine (and whatever registry details). if dealing 2nd hand... then maybe ppl can meet up at a store and see if the racket is genuine before completing transaction.

[LazyBuddy]

Two bad assumptions here that I will address.

1) There is always going to be some error (in my IT world, it's usually user error :rolleyes: ) but that's why there is customer support. If something goes wrong, there's always a real-life person to help. If for some reason, something technical goes wrong, contact support and put in a trouble ticket. In all likelihood (or the way I would set it up at least), you will have to submit your gov't issued ID, the original owner's gov't issued ID, the certificate of authenticity (that the seller was supposed to give you), and additionally you will have to execute a deed of sale or affadavit signed by both parties indicating the legal transfer of the racket. You wouldn't need the deed of sale or affadavit in a trouble-free transaction... only if you've encountered problems with the database system.

2) This is not even part of the process. You are not "forcing" the original user to release his password to you. in fact, you cannot "force" anything for that matter because then it would not be a true and legal sale.

There would be a validation process. If you've ever had to transfer a domain name, then you know what I mean. It's an effective and very simple process.

To prevent "hijacking", domain name registrars use a double validation process. One, the new owner puts in a request to transfer the domain name to their ownership. The system receives the request, and then emails the current owner listed on record to inform him/her that a request was made to transfer the domain name to another person's name.

The current owner must ACT on the email, which will provide a link to a secure area that will give the current owner a choice: APPROVE or DENY.

If he approves it, then the database is altered to reflect the new owner. If he denies it, then it's not altered.

Assuming this is a amicable transaction, why in the world would the seller NOT want to help you transition ownership in the smoothest possible manner? don't buy from him, period.

Anyway, the point is that there are a bunch of effective and simple systems already in use today by many companies that Yonex could employ to protect their consumers but they simply do not.

Look at their main website even, I've never seen a website so sparse with information about their products. They don't even have the AT800 on their site!

Your solutions could be great, if:

1. All the users share the same common background, such as law, regulation, language, culture, etc. Don't laugh, what I mean is, for example ur "certification" issue. How Yonex going to hire all the experts to know how to identify all the different IDs from all over the world? :eek:

2. For the "transfer", it's even harder. There's no regulation or law, will enforce the seller to take such responsibility. Seller A could be:
2.1 Claim don't have a computer to check email regularly.
2.2 Claim he does not speak the same language as the buyers, (ebay, etc)
2.3 Simple just don't want to take any "after purchase services", after collecting all his payment.

3. Real personal support sounds great, but after factor in the cost, it might be a nightamre for both manufacture (increase cost), and buyers (cost goes up, so do the sale price). And once again, buyers are from all over the world, how many specialists u need to hire, to at least cover the major language needs???

Of course, I understand no system could be perfect, but from a testing point of view, if u can't minimize all the potential problem listed above (never have to metion the cost factor, such as hire experts for law, id issues), the system itself could not be too much successful. :cool:

[prophet]

1). Buy your racquet from a reputable and authorized Yonex dealer. (Stop trying to think you will save 50 bucks by buying it on eBay.)

2) Upon purchase at the store, you will be registered into the store's database and/or Yonex database (but I don't think they care - see 3 below).
For example- a store here in San Francisco, Badminton Alley, registers you when you buy a new racquet. That way they have your warranty information.

3) Fakes are good for business. You might not believe it but it helps to increase overall marketability and profitability. Yes people will be conned and pissed off, but others will eventually buy a real Yonex racquet. Even if fake, it gets the marketing of the Yonex name out there for advertising. If Yonex really thought fakes were that big of an issue, don't you think they would have done something by now?

[annab]

Your solutions could be great, if:

1. All the users share the same common background, such as law, regulation, language, culture, etc. Don't laugh, what I mean is, for example ur "certification" issue. How Yonex going to hire all the experts to know how to identify all the different IDs from all over the world? :eek:

2. For the "transfer", it's even harder. There's no regulation or law, will enforce the seller to take such responsibility. Seller A could be:
2.1 Claim don't have a computer to check email regularly.
2.2 Claim he does not speak the same language as the buyers, (ebay, etc)
2.3 Simple just don't want to take any "after purchase services", after collecting all his payment.

3. Real personal support sounds great, but after factor in the cost, it might be a nightamre for both manufacture (increase cost), and buyers (cost goes up, so do the sale price). And once again, buyers are from all over the world, how many specialists u need to hire, to at least cover the major language needs???

Of course, I understand no system could be perfect, but from a testing point of view, if u can't minimize all the potential problem listed above (never have to metion the cost factor, such as hire experts for law, id issues), the system itself could not be too much successful. :cool:
These are not my solutions. These are already PROVEN industry standard systems. So I don't need to get into costs, problems, etc because we can just look to Rolex, GoDaddy, whatever and see how they've implemented these systems cost effectively, legally, and whatnot.

Anyway, this whole thread is just a long-running wishful thinking commentary cuz ultimately, we all know Yonex won't do anything.

[annab]

Oh and Yonex, on the offchance you are reading this thread, feel free to contact me and I will provide you with detailed case studies and cost-benefit analysis at my usual consultant's fee. ;)

[bluejeff]

Just thought of another simple system to implement.

Yonex should provide a method to their consumers that would allow them to submit information about fraudulent sellers. Just look at the success of bluejeff's eBay thread.

I never knew that my thead is considered as successful :p