Malaysian shuttlers to flop at 2005 WC

[Merlin2]

Why is it that Malaysia is such an enthusiastic and strong (in depth) badminton nation, yet also seem to produce "nearly men" - those who get to the latter stages of GP events but never win the big ones or win when it matters I.E 2002 Thomas Cup, World Champs 2003...

The last player I would consider a true champion from Malaysia was Rashid Sidek - and even he seemed to choke on the big occasion. That was a long time ago! When are they going to produce a really big/stand out player. If you compare them with China - since Zhao & Yang Yang they have had countless players - Sun Jun, Dong Jiong, Lin Dan,Ji Peng, Xia. Who have all won the major events

[jamesd20]

Malaysia players are always some of the quickest, most skilled and talented players. In many ways I see them as similar to Indonesia but indonesia seem to always produce champions from a similar standard level.

For example Lee wan wah/Choong tan fook can beat anyone on their day, and frequently look unbeatable in their games for periods, but never seem to string a tournament, or sometimes even a match together.

WCH is the same for singles.

For INA I would day Sigit/Candra, are of similar level to LWW/CTF, on any one day, yet they have Won WC.

Taufik is even more incocnsistent than WCH, yet he has an OG gold Medal.


It is quite well known this has been the case.




They have Promising players all the time, recently as , LCW, KKK, Chew/Chan, but they never seem to do the deed.

Time will tell. FYI they have won the thomas cup several times, so they can do it as a team. Rashid even beat Zhao in 1992. But was he a champion?


It might be a cultural thing-The malaysians I know are all nice, very nice, too nice to be champions maybe??!

[Merlin2]

Wong as never won anything to be inconsistent. Taufik is the kind of player who peaks for the big tournaments - like Paul Erik Hoyer used to do. He is the best player in the world at the moment who can win the big ones. I tipped him for the Olympics and I think he will take the Worlds in 2005

[wilfredlgf]

Thanks for the vote of (no) confidence.

[chibe_K]

Players from Malaysia, skillful and talented but not physically and mentally tough enough to win finals. They normally do well when they are fully charged, fight hard and then begin to feel fatigue when they reach semi-finals and start giving away points. Those are my theories, I could be wrong.

[ctjcad]

Next year when the World Championships come to Anaheim, Los Angeles, California, you can bet there will be many, many Taufik supporters(including myself) as there will be tons of Indonesians living here who will be coming in hordes to support him. Heck, basically when the Indonesian team comes, the dearth of supports is going to flow like never before. The last time the Indonesian team came(i believe in '91 or '92 when Ricky/Rexy, Joko, Susi Susanti and others came, there were lots of supporters. I believe they were playing the strong Malaysian squad at that time).
It will be one big event for sure for the Indonesians in L.A. and southern California... :)


Wong as never won anything to be inconsistent. Taufik is the kind of player who peaks for the big tournaments - like Paul Erik Hoyer used to do. He is the best player in the world at the moment who can win the big ones. I tipped him for the Olympics and I think he will take the Worlds in 2005

[FEND.]

Thanks for the vote of (no) confidence.
Hahaha, everyone's entitled to their own opinion... sadly :)

[hcyong]

Why is it that Malaysia is such an enthusiastic and strong (in depth) badminton nation, yet also seem to produce "nearly men" - those who get to the latter stages of GP events but never win the big ones or win when it matters I.E 2002 Thomas Cup, World Champs 2003...

The last player I would consider a true champion from Malaysia was Rashid Sidek - and even he seemed to choke on the big occasion. That was a long time ago! When are they going to produce a really big/stand out player. If you compare them with China - since Zhao & Yang Yang they have had countless players - Sun Jun, Dong Jiong, Lin Dan,Ji Peng, Xia. Who have all won the major events

It's sad, you know, football (world rules, not Australian ... and soccer to some of you) is the most popular sport in Malaysia, yet we never seem to produce "any men", let alone "nearly men". We would have been overjoyed if we even got one "nearly man". I believe football is something England is very enthusiastic about as well.

Face it, it is a highly competitive world. I support the English football team ( sad to say, I can only support the Malaysian team only up to a certain level), who I think has for most times been among the best in the world, but they never fail to disappoint as well. I think the term "nearly men" fits there as well. Same can be said of the Spanish team.

Even the Chinese has to be disappointed with Lin Dan for having choked on his biggest occassion. If he wins every tournament but chokes at 2008 and 2012 Olympics, will he be a "nearly man" as well?

For every world-beater you produce, the rest of the world produces another handful. I feel proud that even if Malaysia does not have many world-beaters (you are wrong in saying Malaysia is strong in depth; we usually have at the most a few hanging around at the top), but they sit pretty among the elite and gain respect from other players as well. If there aren't any titles to prove it (although some would be nice and we do have some, I must add), that is enough for me.

[jamesd20]

Thanks for the vote of (no) confidence.

Do you have an explanation for this wilfred?

Is it cultural, Training, or Just luck that your best players weaknesses happen to have been their mental strength.


Training is the easy option to blame, but you have had many different international coaches in the past, yet the same problems seem to exist, so it cannot be the only reason.

[extremepower]

I guess its complacency and lack of mental touch. Incentive is too good for them. Hunger is not as much as the other countries. Like the old days, the hunger to win and be successful is more.
rgds.

[jamesd20]

I guess its complacency and lack of mental touch. Incentive is too good for them. Hunger is not as much as the other countries. Like the old days, the hunger to win and be successful is more.
rgds.


But why would their Hunger not be as good as other countries?
Why are they complacent and lack touch?

We know these are the problems, but why?

[jug8man]

But why would their Hunger not be as good as other countries?
Why are they complacent and lack touch?

We know these are the problems, but why?


my take on this is a total diff view.

i put the blame on the 'cram-school' culture. this is where students develop memorizing skills but not so on developing 'real cognitive' abilities.

you all have heard lately (e.g. Darma's threads)........ malaysian youngsters are nowadays subjected to up to 11 hours a day of school+tuition. sometimes this doesnt even include time for revision and homework yet.
everyday cram and cram information into their heads....

this ultimately does not produce thinking students / youngsters.... which is the base for our talent pool.

this is just my opinion tho. and may not cover the entire spectrum.


jug

[jumpshot]

Back when I was young, we used to blame it on Bomo (curse/spell) :D

Anyway, it appears that cultural upbringing has a lot to do with it. Pardon my ignorance and correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think one could depend solely on badminton to raise a family (incl parents) in Malaysia. In other words, badminton is always a part-time indulgence. I read the articles by Tan Aik Huang on BC that you need to have stamina to last not just a few matches but the entire tournament. I think that's where the Malaysian shuttlers fall short. They just couldn't keep up physically to last the duration of the tournament.

[hcyong]

It used to be that fitness is the main pitfall of Malaysian athletes. Malaysians are simply too lazy to gain fitness, plus the abundance and variety of delicious (often unhealthy) food do not help.

However, in recent times, I notice that Malaysian athletes in general are fitter and in consequence, put up better performances. Yet, more often than not, Malaysians still fail at the last hurdles. Why?

I believe Malaysians in general have inferiority complex. They are often satisfied with reaching the semifinal or final or some pre-determined target. Once the target is reached, some sort of relaxation sets in.

[extremepower]

I notice that most malaysian players have fancy stuff either on the wrist or the next. Amazing. New fashion I guess. That shows the so called "arrogance". Anyway, its their life. If they are happy with being only semi finalist, who cares..... Lets enjoy our own game. Hopefully some one will shine in the future.

[extremepower]

They may need more tongkat ali, bird nest, prata, nasi lemak, curry fish head, hor fun, bak kut teh, fukin mee, sarawak mee, tim sum, ikan bakar or teh tarik to win. Local temptations.

[ctjcad]

at least the Malaysian government and other officials are showing lots of sympathy and concern over the earthquake/tsunami tragedy...here's an article i found, IMO, it shows the appropriate attitude in these times of grief and tragedy..imagine this, the total death is nearing 50x, maybe will surpass that than the NY World Trade Center tragedy(2001)..


http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/12/30/nation/20041230071411&sec=nation

[FEND.]

I notice that most malaysian players have fancy stuff either on the wrist or the next. Amazing. New fashion I guess. That shows the so called "arrogance". Anyway, its their life. If they are happy with being only semi finalist, who cares..... Lets enjoy our own game. Hopefully some one will shine in the future.
*BUMP* I don't think what you say is fair though, chinese players also have 'fancy stuff either on the wrist or the ""neck"" not next :p'

[the_way]

Malaysian player has everything to be a champion....If a msian player is on fire...he will advance to the final in a tournament without much perspiration...however......to be in final is good enough for him....

in the final match...msian player will definitely not concentrating on the game and does not possess the will and determination to fight in the match....he will be thinking of how famous he will get, the exuberant welcome by spectators at airport when he return to his country and the money...

well...i think what i have said sounds controversial to malaysian..but...just accept it if malaysian want to produce olympic champion in 2008

[extremepower]

Sorry boss, Which uni are you studying? I was in wgong uni. Played in perth uni games in 1992. I am a malaysian myself. Check my profile. tks.


*BUMP* I don't think what you say is fair though, chinese players also have 'fancy stuff either on the wrist or the ""neck"" not next :p'

[shawn30_k]

look i think 2005 will be a good year for malaysia badminton.lcw was almost wining on that herioc sin open until he lost concentration totally after dominating kj for the start.this shows that the malaysians have really good players who only need to be mentally prepared.surely the coach wil have noted that lcw need to work on his mental strength after that exciting turnaround.kkk/wpt have also proven themselves to be around 1 of the best too reaching to semi-final and finals after only just partnering 2wks before this competitions.surely we can expect more from them.and theres still wch to look out for.he can be unbeatable when he is 'hot'.so dont underestimate malaysia.

[jamesd20]

*BUMP* I don't think what you say is fair though, chinese players also have 'fancy stuff either on the wrist or the ""neck"" not next :p'

I kind of agree, I mean who can forget the "necklaces" KDM/RKM wore in the olympics!

Then Again Even Kim lost when wearing them, so maybe we are onto something...lol

[the_way]

in 2005 WC..we have to pay attention to malaysian players though they are known to be inconsistent players...furthermore...their women have shown tremendous improvement in 2004...Jus look at their XD of KKK/Pei thy...they were paired up for the 1st time and being sent to Spore Open as a pair just for the sake of making up the no. of participants in the event..they stunned the world of badminton by progressing to the final and later won the taipei open n making it to semi in indo open....

making it to the last stage of 3 tournaments in a row is not a matter of luck...it is about the quality of game they possess....KKK...he has incredible speed n has a spectacular vision of the position of shuttle together with his explosive style of play...we also cannot forget about his partner, pei thy...her defence is quite good as she is able to retrive 90% of the sharp smashes from his guy opponent...Thus with a good XD and a strong men squad....no doubt...malaysia will pose a major threat to the powerhouse like denmark and china...

apart from that, Msia WD , chin ee hui/pei thy are another very promising pair...they have beaten the japanese, danish pair ,the korean(Lee hyo jung/lee kyung won) and the latest, they beat the chinese(wei yili/zhao ting ting)...chinese women double are very very hard to beat since the ge fei and gu jun era..only ra/lee have done it a few times.

meanwhile, in MS, definitely we will say lee chong wei, hafiz and wong....chong wei is a very rare talent in malaysia and he is able to beat all the top players in the world..what he lacks is the exposure in major tournament and playing at crucial stages....

[weeyet]

yes, you are so right... Hafiz Hashim is the only player who had won a major tournament ie All England in recent years.

I am just so piss off with the typical " a final involving Malaysian"... Ie, they will win the first set easily, and then lost the second set while they already at the edge of the match point, and lost all the way in the final set.

Most vivid example:
Cheah Soon Kit/Yap Kim Hock vs Ricky Subargja/Rexy Manaiky
1996 Olympics final.

Cheah Soon Kit/Yap Kim Hock vs Chandra Vijaya/Sigit Budiarto
1997 World Championship final

ANd some other matches in thomas cup match....

[Gessle]

I am just so piss off with the typical " a final involving Malaysian"... Ie, they will win the first set easily, and then lost the second set while they already at the edge of the match point, and lost all the way in the final set.


don forget MD All England's Final 2004
Tan Fook & Wan Wah lost to Jens Eriksen & Martin L.

oh ya also Lee Chong Wei lost to Kenneth Jonassesn in 2004 Singapore Open MS Final

I m pissed off also...

[ants]

i guess all msians including me are dissapointed as well with the results. Sometimes we think that we may be able to win it.. but then everything seems to collapse just like that. Another example is Thomas Cup Msia/Indonesia Finals few years back. We expected them to perform well , especially the doubles.. oh man.. what a dissapointment.
We know that our players have the skills , determination , speed. But they always lack of Mental. They can get shaken easily. Anyway its enough. I will still keep supporting our Msian Players.

[cheekygen]

In my opinion, there could be many factors why Malaysian players unable to "break through" and win major tournaments in badminton arena. Although over the years there are gifted/ talented players in the national team but not many survive and have a successful badminton career. Some of the reasons could be politics, personality, environment, lack of social support, and individualistic mentality. The process of producing a champion require years of effort with many parties involve such as parent's support, coaches commitment and dedication, team mates support as well as the public support.
It is typical that in Malaysia's media especially report more negative news and sending a wrong message to the public about the Malaysian players which i think is quiet unfair for them. When malaysian players perform well, they reported as though it is what they should do and the public expectation is very high because the malaysian badminton used to do well in international arena.Therefore, when the players lose, the public/media are more negative towards them due to the discrepancy of ideal and real perception of the current team.
In addition to that, the current batch of players are too individualistic. If you realize, Malaysia fail to do well in the team event.... the problem is simply there is no "team spirit".... though Malaysia is consider a collectivist culture but in the national badminton team, they are very individualistic. Why individualistic? Simply they are being reinforced to be selfish because thats the way to survive in the team. Coaches are too busy with the pressure to produce results that the association wanted... and they are willing to do whatever it takes(unethical) or sacrifice anything in order to produce a top player..... but they forget there is a price to pay... they failed to attention on the player's psychological wellfare. Players often depressed and when they are down they don't know how to cope with the pressure. Wong Choong Hann used to be very loyal to the country that he value his own principle to win a glory for the country mentioned that " What is the use to bringing glory to the country when no one appreciate it? Striving to earn more money is more realistic and logical"... for his disappointment with his experience with the team. What make him felt that way is the environment in the team is not healthy. Too much unhealthy competitiveness, pointing fingers.

The reason why Taufik could manage to win the Olympic Games could be a strong social support especially from his personal coach Mulyo. Without him, Taufik might have given up long time ago with his issues with the association. Comparing Malaysia to Indonesia, Indonesian players do have similar politics, coaches issues, association problems but the player's mentality and their "team spirit" is really reputable when it comes to team events. They can lose the individual event because it is personal thing but as for team they will fight untill the end because it is the matter of pride and glory of the country. Similarly to the Chinese, Korean as well but unfortunately not Malaysian,... they are reversed. Sadly to say, Malaysian coaches failed to teach the players the importance of "team spirit" and good attitude (humble) when they were young.... therefore, players often experienced a lots of stress because the team do not have a close relationship within the members. Worst cases i observed is that some players do hope their team mate to lose and clapping hands for the opponent of their team mates simply because of envy and jealousy...... they fear that the coach will pay more attention to the team mate who win and it will threaten their position in the team.

Malaysia badminton's future need to pay attention to the construct of the negative mentality in the team. Those players do not develop the attitude and behavior in a day.... it's years since they were young. " Monkey see, monkey do".... if the coach do not display a good behavior and showed discrimination and biasness, the players may feel insecure with the coach... bear in mind, those players face the coach more than their parents.. and indirectly the coach become the player's closest person to relate to in the absence of their parents...... if the relationship is not secure, the players may feel avoidant and become independent + avoidant+ arrogant because they feel whatever they achieve is the result of their "own" hard work and totally discredit the coach and the team mates. There are many coaches who were great players during their playing time but failed to understand the cultural differences of mentality and psychological effect of the players. They coach based on their experience as a player but it might not be appropriate in another culture. There are gifted and talented players around but the question is how to make them a world class champion with the right attitude and true spirit of a champion?

[weeyet]

Wong Choong Hann used to be very loyal to the country that he value his own principle to win a glory for the country mentioned that " What is the use to bringing glory to the country when no one appreciate it? Striving to earn more money is more realistic and logical"... for his disappointment with his experience with the team.
The association and government is really having problem.

One of the reasons why Malaysian sports cannot develop is because the culture and sports environment of Malaysia. Malaysian sportsmen/women will always worry about their future even at the age of playing. They cannot concentrate. This actually has been killing a lot of young talents when it comes to choosing between playing or further studying.

Other countries take very good care of their sportsman welfare and plan for their future after retirement to make sure they can put in all effort and concentration, but not Malaysia.

Recently, the government had agreed to give lifetime "compensation" to all sportsmen/women who won Olympic medals. Thumbs up. Anyway, I think this could be extended to greater area. Because under ths scheme, only badminton players can see more benefit as currently badminton is the only event that Malaysia has the potential to win medals. (P/S: All five players who benefited from this scheme are badminton players, ie Yap Kim hock, cheah soon kit, razif sidek, jalani sidek, rashid sidek)

Think of more ways to help sportsmen or the country won't be able to see results in sports.

[Brave_Turtle]

[QUOTE=extremepower]I notice that most malaysian players have fancy stuff either on the wrist or the next. Amazing. New fashion I guess. That shows the so called "arrogance". QUOTE]


I think this is completely non-sense. Not because they wear fancy stuff that they are arrogant.

Being arrogant to me is how you react on the court and not what you wear and what your style is.

We shouldn't not mix up arrogance and fashion because it is 2 completely different things.

On some other thread people were saying that badminton players are not fancy enough, therefore not promoting the sport image. Now you are saying that they are arrogant because they wear fancy stuff?

Everyone is free to wear what they want, give them a break...

[weeyet]

I notice that most malaysian players have fancy stuff either on the wrist or the next. Amazing. New fashion I guess. That shows the so called "arrogance".

I think this is completely non-sense. Not because they wear fancy stuff that they are arrogant.

Being arrogant to me is how you react on the court and not what you wear and what your style is.

We shouldn't not mix up arrogance and fashion because it is 2 completely different things.

On some other thread people were saying that badminton players are not fancy enough, therefore not promoting the sport image. Now you are saying that they are arrogant because they wear fancy stuff?

Everyone is free to wear what they want, give them a break...
So desu ne, brave no turtle san... badminton players could be more fancy. Can women players wear skirts?? Yes sure.