Hear it through the grapevine

[Maz]

A snippet of a friend's letter training in the IBF centre in Germany:

"IBF basically assured us that they are going to change the scoring system. Who ever wins the rally wins the point. Just like volleyball from what I hear. This is almost certain to change permanently. A lot more certainty behind this
compared to the attempted change to the 7 point system. Just trust me
with this. So I guess those training back home (Sydney) maybe find
out a bit more about this system…and maybe try some games with it?"

So I guess I'll be trying this system over the weekend. I may start to win games now, since I seldom manage to convert my serves to points! hahaha :D

According to that statement, I'd say this system is likely to be implemented before any other changes...but I wonder when?

[FEND.]

A snippet of a friend's letter training in the IBF centre in Germany:

"IBF basically assured us that they are going to change the scoring system. Who ever wins the rally wins the point. Just like volleyball from what I hear. This is almost certain to change permanently. A lot more certainty behind this
compared to the attempted change to the 7 point system. Just trust me
with this. So I guess those training back home (Sydney) maybe find
out a bit more about this system…and maybe try some games with it?"

So I guess I'll be trying this system over the weekend. I may start to win games now, since I seldom manage to convert my serves to points! hahaha :D

According to that statement, I'd say this system is likely to be implemented before any other changes...but I wonder when?
Mmm...... so exactly how does it go??

[Maz]

Mmm...... so exactly how does it go??

I believe a player can score off any serve

[FEND.]

You know, have you considered that your mate is pulling a fast one on you?

[Maz]

You know, have you considered that your mate is pulling a fast one on you?

haha...it's always possible, but unlike him...moreover, his entire letter is now posted on Badminton Australia's website - http://www.badminton.org.au

[Yipom]

soo... how does it work for doubles.....

Jus seems kinda strange if they use this scoring system for doubles....

do you still change side everytime you score? and is it still gonna be First and second service?

[Maz]

soo... how does it work for doubles.....

Jus seems kinda strange if they use this scoring system for doubles....

do you still change side everytime you score? and is it still gonna be First and second service?

Good question, but my understanding is that in doubles, there will still be first & second service...but anyone can still score off it.

[Growy]

And the point is?

To make the game less interesting in the vain hope that sponsors and tv will suddenly fall in with love it? In whose interest (and all the other mad ideas floating around at the moment) is this change? For the couch potato tv viewers who can't understand present system and whose attention span isn't up to the length of a badminton match? Well, actually, they watch tennis quite happily - average length about 90 minutes and with a scoring system more complicated than virtually any other sport - without their poor little heads exploding.

This sport is run by idiots.

[wood_22_chuck]

Put forth suggestions as well. Your sentiment is shared by other forum-members, some vehemently, some constructively.

-dave

[cappy75]

I got bad feelings about this setup. The importance of good service will be significantly diminished:(.

[jug8man]

next thing you know................ players will get to serve twice if their first serve faults or hits the net! :mad:

this just sucks! monkeys i tell you! MONKEYS ARE RUNNING THE IBF!!!

8MAN

[Anatolii]

the more i try to imagine how the game would turn out to be like, the more i feel that all this change is brought about by idiocy. either that or it simply isn't true when they say they are attempting to make the sport more attractive. :crying: the very essence of badminton *voice cracks*..

[FEND.]

the more i try to imagine how the game would turn out to be like, the more i feel that all this change is brought about by idiocy. either that or it simply isn't true when they say they are attempting to make the sport more attractive. :crying: the very essence of badminton *voice cracks*..
Mmm. Oh well, anyone any suggestions? Should we call in the IBF or the mafia?? :D:D:D. Lol. Just kidding.

Looks like we're powerless to do anything...

[Gollum]

We may be nearly powerless to do anything, but the professional players are not. We can only hope that they will object to the changes as strongly as we do.

[Loh]

Mmm. Oh well, anyone any suggestions? Should we call in the IBF or the mafia?? :D:D:D. Lol. Just kidding.

Looks like we're powerless to do anything...

If it is ever carried out, I guess it will be an experiment and the pros will be the ones who will come out strongly against the proposed scoring system if they are not happy with it. And hopefully good sense will prevail in the end! :)

[FEND.]

True words by Gollum and Loh!!!

Now Mr Rasmussen and Mr Laybourn, would you care to spearhead this for the sake of badminton?

Kwun perhaps also :)

[Big Slick]

Well I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the scoring system change may not be that bad of an idea. Holster your weapons for a moment people!

I believe that such a scoring change may stem the current domination of china in badminton. With the way the current system works the scores in games don't always accurately reflect the difference between the two players. You only need to be slightly better than someone to beat them easily. Under the current system, you need to win 2 points in a row to score 1 point. So it is possible that you can get the service many times in a game and still lose 15-0. This system is obviously suited to the better player as it means that it is difficult for opposition to score against them. However it does mean that it is more likely that the games will not go right down to the wire. I believe that implementing such a scoring change will result in the lower ranking players becoming more competitive, and hence making the game better for spectators.

[FEND.]

Well I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the scoring system change may not be that bad of an idea. Holster your weapons for a moment people!

I believe that such a scoring change may stem the current domination of china in badminton. With the way the current system works the scores in games don't always accurately reflect the difference between the two players. You only need to be slightly better than someone to beat them easily. Under the current system, you need to win 2 points in a row to score 1 point. So it is possible that you can get the service many times in a game and still lose 15-0. This system is obviously suited to the better player as it means that it is difficult for opposition to score against them. However it does mean that it is more likely that the games will not go right down to the wire. I believe that implementing such a scoring change will result in the lower ranking players becoming more competitive, and hence making the game better for spectators. Isn't that the same idea why the 7 pt scoring system was introduced? To help 'less developed badminton countries' be on par with the greats who eat sleep s**t badminton?

If that is the excuse, then mmm.......

[Big Slick]

Isn't that the same idea why the 7 pt scoring system was introduced? To help 'less developed badminton countries' be on par with the greats who eat sleep **** badminton?

Zzz
Well with the 7 pt scoring system you still have to win 2 points in a row to score 1 point. So the idea of that rule change was that you require shorter bursts of intense play to win a game, I presume. It still didn't alter the fact that you could still win many rallies and lose without scoring a point.

[FEND.]

Well with the 7 pt scoring system you still have to win 2 points in a row to score 1 point. So the idea of that rule change was that you require shorter bursts of intense play to win a game, I presume. It still didn't alter the fact that you could still win many rallies and lose without scoring a point.
~Sigh

No more sun jun vs rasmussen style games anymore.....

[täby_swe]

If they change the rules like this it would be a disaster. they can't do that! if they do, they're stupid.

[m_poppema]

I almost started to cry reading this :eek:

They must be kidding..
In my eyes volleyball is f*cked up since this rule was introduced in that sport..
They can't do this to the most beautiful sport in the world, what to do?!!

[FEND.]

I almost started to cry reading this :eek:

They must be kidding..
In my eyes volleyball is f*cked up since this rule was introduced in that sport..
They can't do this to the most beautiful sport in the world, what to do?!!
Anyone here know the mafia?? :D:D:D:D

Lol. Jk. But I get a kick outta mafia style movies and stuff.

[Jumpalot]

Good bye long games. The game will be so short after this. Service and service return will be most important part of the game like Tennis except service going to be mostly defensive instead of being an offensive weapon as in Tennis.

Consider this: Any bad serve is just one easy put away and also easy point for opponent. A missed serve is a free point for the opponent. A missed service return into the net or outside shot will be another free pt. Lets say there are at least 4 of those in a game on each side for a game. that would translate into 8 pts played without any real rally being played. A game of 15 is probably reduced to a game of 10 or less in reality. Thats great for me cause I will no longer consider getting back in shape since a good part of the game will now be service and service return. :D

[MarkinJapan]

When we heard about the IBF's new idea, we tried the new scoring system with games up to 21. The event was supervised by two IBF certificated umpires.
No one had anything good to say about it.
Jumpalots points about missed serves/ quick service kills are really the worst part of this system.

The information gathered (players reaction etc) was sent to the IBF.

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.

[FEND.]

When we heard about the IBF's new idea, we tried the new scoring system with games up to 21. The event was supervised by two IBF certificated umpires.
No one had anything good to say about it.
Jumpalots points about missed serves/ quick service kills are really the worst part of this system.

The information gathered (players reaction etc) was sent to the IBF.

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.
Like they'd listen to a bunch of amateurs / intermediate or social players.....

[Iwan]

As I see it, this is going to shorten the time span of the games because there won't be endless service overs anymore. Other than that, its still the good old badminton we know it. The bad thing is, aggressive players are going to love this system more compared to defensive players like Hendrawan.

Basically, the same thing is going to happen as the old 7 point system. You see rally players complaining. However, I see that they are going in the right direction. To counter rally players' complaints, they can add more points to each set. Best of 3 sets to 21 points sounds like a good start. This will check the aggressive players and make them think twice about going all out and win a fast game.

The reason why IBF introduces this system seems to be to make the scoring system in badminton more understandable to people who don't know it and to make the length of matches become more predictable. Probably, there is nothing more frustating to a newbie viewer as to why a person doesn't get the point when theyve won a rally. They're probably just going to switch to different channel out of frustration. However, the 2nd reason is probably the key here.

You roughly know how much each rally is going to last, the throw off is how many service overs there is going to be if you're planning a tournament. Which is why you see people playing up to 2am in the morning in a tournament. With this new point system, the average length of each rally becomes MUCH more predictable, so tournaments can become better organised, which have been the complaint of many professional players like Candra.

Regarding doubles, I think they're just going to designate 1st server and 2nd server to each pair and eliminate the rule that goes "when you get a service over, the player on the right serves first." Instead, theyre just going to give the designated 1st server to serve first and pass the serve to the 2nd serve when they lose a rally and service over when they lose again. Its better for newbie audience that way too, no more confusion over why this guy had to serve first or that guy had to serve 2nd.

[Iwan]

When we heard about the IBF's new idea, we tried the new scoring system with games up to 21. The event was supervised by two IBF certificated umpires.
No one had anything good to say about it.
Jumpalots points about missed serves/ quick service kills are really the worst part of this system.

The information gathered (players reaction etc) was sent to the IBF.

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.
I don't see why people complain about services getting killed off easily with the new scoring system. Get a match of 15 point together with the old scoring system. Record down how many service each respective player has won and lost. Its the same thing with the new system right? The one serving at the beginning of the set wins if his opponent couldn't win more service over than him by the end of the set, this rule applies evenly to both new scoring system and old scoring system.

Basically, no matter what the scoring system is like, you'd want to be the one to be keeping the serve until the end of the set and if you're on the otherside, you'd be wanting to win the serve over and keep it urs until the end of the set.

[Dill]

Whatever happens we are always going to have to serve high to the very back to give ourselves the maximum chance, no more fluffing the tight low serve otherwise we lose both the serve and the point whereas before we had the cusion of only losing the serve not a point.

Can you imagine losing a math by fluffing your serve when your oponent is at 14 :crying:

I have a funny feeling clubs will not follow this format it will only be sanctioned competitions, what happens if we don't use this system in our clubs and enter competitions where it is used? even more :confused: :crying:

[Anatolii]

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.actually i can't imagine how all these setbacks of Badminton Recreated could have escaped their (IBF's) consideration. this major change they're introducing couldn't have been the result of a few days' thought. clearly, they feel the pros that Badminton Recreated will bring about, enough compensates the cons.

if they're gonna make this a permanent rule, i don't know how petitions will help change (more appropriately, unchange) things.

[Jumpalot]

When we heard about the IBF's new idea, we tried the new scoring system with games up to 21. The event was supervised by two IBF certificated umpires.
No one had anything good to say about it.
Jumpalots points about missed serves/ quick service kills are really the worst part of this system.

The information gathered (players reaction etc) was sent to the IBF.

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.

My guess would be the new pt system would affect the non-professionals the most since they tend to make 2-4 times more mistakes than Pro''s on service / service returns. The game could be incredibly short if I am correct. It will definitely change the game for some, if not everyone. It may dramatically change the game for professional as well since they dont like to give out any free points so I imagine a much safer game will be played where no one will take any chance unless there is a clear oppertunity for a "kill" Hmmmm... all this for a easier scoring system. I would like to see tennis trying to get rid of their scoring system and get rid of all the 15 - love, 30-love, 40-love... deuce.. advantage so and so. Oh well. lets just try everything and hope that one of the million changes will work before the sport is completely ruined for good.

[fr_topak]

Next thing you know they will allow serves above the waist ala Tennis...wah!! :crying:

[leehsim]

My guess would be the new pt system would affect the non-professionals the most since they tend to make 2-4 times more mistakes than Pro''s on service / service returns. The game could be incredibly short if I am correct. It will definitely change the game for some, if not everyone. It may dramatically change the game for professional as well since they dont like to give out any free points so I imagine a much safer game will be played where no one will take any chance unless there is a clear oppertunity for a "kill" Hmmmm... all this for a easier scoring system. I would like to see tennis trying to get rid of their scoring system and get rid of all the 15 - love, 30-love, 40-love... deuce.. advantage so and so. Oh well. lets just try everything and hope that one of the million changes will work before the sport is completely ruined for good.
Not to worry. Remember the experiment IBF trial on 7-point system. The scoring system failed miserably.

[Growy]

It looks like this change will go ahead so if you've tried it and still don't like it, send a letter, don't just bitch on the internet.
Actually, a while back there was a long discussion here about all the changes the IBF have been talking about recently. Fend collated the views expressed and sent an excellent letter. I take it, Fend, by your reaction that you have had no response yet?

[FEND.]

Actually, a while back there was a long discussion here about all the changes the IBF have been talking about recently. Fend collated the views expressed and sent an excellent letter. I take it, Fend, by your reaction that you have had no response yet?
I did get a response and I put the email here in a thread called "HE REPLIED!!!!" or something like that. Still he wasn't clear of his stance (Mr Gunalan) so yea.... :crying::crying::crying:

[Growy]

I did get a response and I put the email here in a thread called "HE REPLIED!!!!" or something like that. Still he wasn't clear of his stance (Mr Gunalan) so yea.... :crying::crying::crying:
I missed that one at the time. Anyway, for me, the crucial part of his reply is

What we are investigating is what will make
Badminton Media friendly,TV friendly,Spectator friendly,Sponsor
friendly and above all player and coaches friendly...

and the crucial word is "investigating." How much investigating have they done? From what I can see, they've asked a few TV execs and possible sponsors for ideas and decided to act on their answers. They might have talked to higher level players, but they certainly haven't been here to discuss their plans. And since their own website and discussion forum is so bad, (don't get me started on that) this remains the voice of the badminton grassroots. Coaches and players of all levels come here. We are all potential spectators and tv viewers, but obviously our views count for f**** all.

[Loh]

Next thing you know they will allow serves above the waist ala Tennis...wah!! :crying:

But, similar to tennis, the smash serve must be from the baseline! :D
Then perhaps there will no longer be the short service lines, you can serve to anywhere in your opponents court. And there won't be anymore controversies on the service for you can serve any stlye, any where, so long as it is not into the net of out of the boundary lines of your opponent's court.

How do you like that? ;)

[MarkinJapan]

if they're gonna make this a permanent rule, i don't know how petitions will help change (more appropriately, unchange) things.
This proposition hasn't been tested on a large scale, so writing your impressions on the new system is valuable feedback for them. The IBF asked for feedback from the tournament we ran. I havn't talked to the certificated umpires about it since, but i'm pretty sure they wrote letters including the feedback.

[Benasp]

it should be too worst, i just have to get habit to it, the think is that in Badminton, the services is nothing, a good tennis server can win with just that :P and in volleyball, the reveiving team as 75% chance to make the point. but in Badminton, the services doesn't count as much as in the other sport so i think it could work.

my worst nightmare is that we have game like in volleyball that always end in prolongation dahhhh that suckkk

[Loh]

This proposition hasn't been tested on a large scale, so writing your impressions on the new system is valuable feedback for them. The IBF asked for feedback from the tournament we ran. I havn't talked to the certificated umpires about it since, but i'm pretty sure they wrote letters including the feedback.

If match-fixing is present in official badminton tournaments where prize-monies are involved, how would you suggest that the culprits be punished? :cool:

Of course, match-fixing can happen in badminton, especially when one's countryman's fate is at stake, ie, whether he could qualify for subsequent important events like the WC, or whether he would be earning a better seeding.

Perhaps the strongest motivating factor is the prize-money, whether this is so attractive that a monetary bribe will not be able to buy the player concerned. Also, if betting is allowed and prevalent in badminton in any particular society, such that the stakes involved are much higher than the prize-monies.

We know that in football (soccer) this is not uncommon but when the culprit players are caught, they will be banned from playing professional soccer for a specified period of time or forever.

But in badminton, when one meets up with a fellow teammate in the Final or even in the earlier stages so as to let him go further in the competition , as in the case of Lin versus Chen, who is to judge whether the outcome is fixed and how? What will be the penalties if players are caught? :rolleyes:

[laughable c.]

If match-fixing ..

... as in the case of Lin versus Chen, who is to judge whether the outcome is fixed and how? What will be the penalties if players are caught? :rolleyes:
good question. but why have you posted it in this thread? :confused:

[Loh]

good question. but why have you posted it in this thread? :confused:

My humble apologies. You're right, this post was intended as a followup to MarkinJapan's assertion that the AE Final between Lin and Chen was probably "fixed" and therefore I should have included it in the "Did Lin Dan gave up the Final" thread.

I guess MarkinJapan has been 'dominating' my thoughts. :D

[MarkinJapan]

My humble apologies. You're right, this post was intended as a followup to MarkinJapan's assertion that the AE Final between Lin and Chen was probably "fixed" and therefore I should have included it in the "Did Lin Dan gave up the Final" thread.

I guess MarkinJapan has been 'dominating' my thoughts. :D
I have that affect on many people ;)

The big difference between vollyball and badminton is not only that amateurs have a lower serve %, but also that a badminton serve at any level is alot more attackable.

[Growy]

The big difference between vollyball and badminton is not only that amateurs have a lower serve %, but also that a badminton serve at any level is alot more attackable. That is exactly why the proposed change will affect the game so profoundly. At the moment there is an exquisite tension at the start of each rally. The serving side knows that it has to wrest the advantage from the receivers to gain a point. The receivers have to capitalise on their advantage to get the serve back, at the same time knowing that reckless attack could mean they lose a point.

Change this delicate balance and the whole game changes. And once the game has changed so utterly by a seemingly small matter of the scoring system, the way will then be open for other changes. The first one probably to do with evening out the imbalance of advantage at the serve.

If this goes ahead, in five years time it will be a different game altogether. And all for the sake of television viewers who couldn't care less about the sport.

Pathetic.

[Kai91]

I believe a player can score off any serve
For tennis, t-tennis, volleyball and others sports which you score for whichever party's service is only effective when the serve give you an advantage. Tennis they serve with a smash so does volleyball. T-tennis you can start with a power spin in badminton, none of these can be done unless they think of some way to do so. :mad::mad:

[FEND.]

For tennis, t-tennis, volleyball and others sports which you score for whichever party's service is only effective when the serve give you an advantage. Tennis they serve with a smash so does volleyball. T-tennis you can start with a power spin in badminton, none of these can be done unless they think of some way to do so. :mad::mad:
It wouldn't be badminton if we can have a power spin would it??

[Growy]

For tennis, t-tennis, volleyball and others sports which you score for whichever party's service is only effective when the serve give you an advantage. Tennis they serve with a smash so does volleyball. T-tennis you can start with a power spin in badminton, none of these can be done unless they think of some way to do so. :mad::mad:
The IBF are already talking about experimenting with a smash serve.

[ryeung]

The IBF are already talking about experimenting with a smash serve.

I really don't see how a smash server (or any serve) from the back line will work. Even if you have a hard smash, it should be fairly easy to return it which will immediately place the server at a disadvantage. For us mere mortals, it will be a total disaster, the receiver can just stand at midcourt and pick it off.

[Anatolii]

The IBF are already talking about experimenting with a smash serve.tell them that they may as well go create a new sport. :mad: what are people gonna think of the sport with all these changes being made? :mad: if they continue with all this 'improving', badminton is gonna lose its identity :(

[Kai91]

The IBF are already talking about experimenting with a smash serve.
WTF? the net is 1.55m high and how in the world are they telling us to do a smash service? Unless u can try and throw the shuttle at least 2.5~3m up high... International championships will just make yonex broke by using **** load of shuttles as maybe 5 services will break it! Doesn't IBF have brains or are they truly ran by monkeys there? It will just make it less entertaining with the loss of deceptive backhand serve, forehand drive serve? everything will be the same. Just like tennis, you get sick of how they serve VERY quickly as it is all the same.:mad:

Unlike tennis, badminton is a very fast game much faster than tennis, so after smashing, you are at your weakest point and a cross court drop will just do the job and opponent gets point? I think what they are making it into is a mini tennis with departure of BIG courts, low net, ball bouncing and hell heavy rackets. Whereas in Volleyball, they in a team(ok u may want to say badminton has doubles) but the difference is that in volley ball, its not a MUST to return the ball to the opposing side in a shot, in badminton there is no such thing. And of course volleyball has more players, unless they wanna make badminton played by abt 4 or more pple on each side of a court?:mad: