Day 3 matches (plus analysis) [Archive] - Page 2 - Badminton Central Discussion Forums

seven

05-12-2005, 10:40 AM

apontoh

05-12-2005, 10:45 AM

who do you think's gonna go on to the final guys, Denmark or Indonesia?

Woven

05-12-2005, 10:48 AM

Jusr wondering, one of the INA WD played against CHN was Lita Nurlita right? It was not Lilyana Natsir ...i guess, anyone can confirm it?

according to the website, it was gresya polii/lilyana natsir (Lita wasnt playing)

coops241180

05-12-2005, 10:49 AM

What on earth happened to Lee and Ra??? :confused:

I mean even if the Danes played a perfect match, the score still seems so enormous! :eek:

Lee/Ra won against Robertson/Emms, so it can't be a question of their pair not working!? :confused:
Anyone seen the match?

Anyway, congrats to Jens and Kamilla, now we now the semis :

China vs Korea (the revenge of 2003 final)
Denmark vs Indonesia (the revenge of 2004 Thomas Cup :p )

Seems cool!! :D

hmmm, possibly jens greater experience and fitness (seeing that nathan has recently been injured) possibly made the difference. kamilla is very talented, and with the big guy behind her instead of thomas maybe this made her even more confident to take on ra at the net. denmark have a pretty awesome set of mixed and levels players at the moment. wonder how kamilla and mette would do as WD? but with kamilla, mette, rikke, jens, jonas and thomas they have three briliiant XD pairs. jens, martin, jonas, lars, thomas and michael are all great MD players, plus kenneth and peter for MS. it's hard to see why denmark aren't favourites to win really. maybe i over estimate the strength of the WD. btu it should be possible for denmark to field a strong side for the semi and the final.

tomorrow will be an exciting day :D

Woven

05-12-2005, 10:49 AM

who do you think's gonna go on to the final guys, Denmark or Indonesia?

INDO FOR CHAMPION!!!!:D :D :D :cool:

ctjcad

05-12-2005, 10:51 AM

Sorry all,
As "predicted" by me earlier ;) , I'm assuming that Denmark will play Indonesia and Korea will play against China in the Semis..
Now, but I'm not too clear on the rule of SC playoffs and seedings:
is it based on the number of overall victories vs. loses?? because after seeing the overall group records or Denmark and Korea, Korea has 1 more victory than Denmark: 11-10
Or is it which ever team has a better head-to-head record of their matches, within the group, which qualifies for the top seed, in which case Denmark has a 3-0 because they won all 3 of their group matches against Korea, England and Thai..

Hope this question is clear and anyone can clarify...thx and on to the Semis we go..

What on earth happened to Lee and Ra??? :confused:

I mean even if the Danes played a perfect match, the score still seems so enormous! :eek:

Lee/Ra won against Robertson/Emms, so it can't be a question of their pair not working!? :confused:
Anyone seen the match?

Anyway, congrats to Jens and Kamilla, now we now the semis :

China vs Korea (the revenge of 2003 final)
Denmark vs Indonesia (the revenge of 2004 Thomas Cup :p )

Seems cool!! :D

seven

05-12-2005, 10:54 AM

who do you think's gonna go on to the final guys, Denmark or Indonesia?

Judging on current form, I would say Denmark but Tine Rasmussen's injury will seriously weaken the team as the WS is no more a "sure" victory against Indonesia...

Let's see :

MS :
This will be even if Jonassen is fielded (judging on his current form).
Rather Indonesia if Gade is fielded (I think Taufik would beat him).

WS :
Both are weak now! Rather even too...

MD :
Candra and Sigit were beaten today so maybe a slight advantage to Denmark, though this is even too!

WD :
Both are average. So even match yet again!

XD :
Advantage to the Danes after their impressive outing today.
But Nova and Lilyana won't be an easy opponent!

As a conclusion, both teams seem to have (more or less) same strengths and weaknesses so I think this tie will be very interesting (all the matches are very even).
This is going to be real fun! :cool:

seven

05-12-2005, 10:56 AM

Sorry all,
As "predicted" by me earlier ;) , I'm assuming that Denmark will play Indonesia and Korea will play against China in the Semis..
Now, but I'm not too clear on the rule of SC playoffs and seedings:
is it based on the number of overall victories vs. loses?? because after seeing the overall group records or Denmark and Korea, Korea has 1 more victory than Denmark: 11-10
Or is it which ever team has a better head-to-head record of their matches, within the group which qualifies for the top seed, in which case Denmark has a 3-0 because they won all 3 of their group matches against Korea, England and Thai..

Hope this question is clear and anyone can clarify...thx and on to the Semis we go..

It is the number of ties won : 3 for Denmark, 2 for Korea.
Therefore Denmark meets Indonesia and Korea meets China.

ctjcad

05-12-2005, 11:04 AM

Thx for the explanation..
Now, what if 2 or 3 teams are tied/have the same number of ties won...what's the next criteria(s) for deciding who's the top seed and so forth??..thx-

It is the number of ties won : 3 for Denmark, 2 for Korea.
Therefore Denmark meets Indonesia and Korea meets China.

w3wmfhe

05-12-2005, 11:08 AM

that is goin 2 be sat's game ..who will be in the final...:cool:

do u guys think if there is a slice chance korea is goin 2 upset china again at home crowed......:confused: ..is kim/ra goin 2 play 2gether 2 suprised chinese team:rolleyes:

what about friday's game...malaysia vs japan:confused:

apontoh

05-12-2005, 11:10 AM

Judging on current form, I would say Denmark but Tine Rasmussen's injury will seriously weaken the team as the WS is no more a "sure" victory against Indonesia...

Let's see :

MS :
This will be even if Jonassen is fielded (judging on his current form).
Rather Indonesia if Gade is fielded (I think Taufik would beat him).

WS :
Both are weak now! Rather even too...

MD :
Candra and Sigit were beaten today so maybe a slight advantage to Denmark, though this is even too!

WD :
Both are average. So even match yet again!

XD :
Advantage to the Danes after their impressive outing today.
But Nova and Lilyana won't be an easy opponent!

As a conclusion, both teams seem to have (more or less) same strengths and weaknesses so I think this tie will be very interesting (all the matches are very even).
This is going to be real fun! :cool:

Hey I'm not that familiar with the strengths of the different teams except for Indonesia (strong in MS, MD, ok in XD and ABSOLUTE CRAP in WS and WD), and CHina (strong overall). Thanks for the analysis. Between Denmarks top WS player and Indonesia's, who's ranked higher?

apontoh

05-12-2005, 11:12 AM

Oh btw I would point out that Candra/Sigit isn't the best Indonesian MD..Alven/Luluk is. They are currently ranked 2nd.

ctjcad

05-12-2005, 11:14 AM

Out of the 5 flights, I feel Denmark's strength is the MD..they could field either pair and still come up with a victory...After that comes the MS..
I think either Gade or Jonassen can win, but if Taufik is in-form, I doubt either of them can beat him...For WS, with the loss of Tine, Indonesia will have an extra slot open for a victory, in case 1 of their 3 "dependent flights"(MS, MD, XD) failed..
*IF* the Danes were to lose on Saturday/Semis, it probably will be because their top WS player is injured..And just like I mentioned earlier, whichever team(that are in the Semis) is the "healthiest" and can avoid any "major injury", is the team that has a greater chance to win the cup..
Anyhoo, should be an interesting Semis for all the teams..:).

Judging on current form, I would say Denmark but Tine Rasmussen's injury will seriously weaken the team as the WS is no more a "sure" victory against Indonesia...

Let's see :

MS :
This will be even if Jonassen is fielded (judging on his current form).
Rather Indonesia if Gade is fielded (I think Taufik would beat him).

WS :
Both are weak now! Rather even too...

MD :
Candra and Sigit were beaten today so maybe a slight advantage to Denmark, though this is even too!

WD :
Both are average. So even match yet again!

XD :
Advantage to the Danes after their impressive outing today.
But Nova and Lilyana won't be an easy opponent!

As a conclusion, both teams seem to have (more or less) same strengths and weaknesses so I think this tie will be very interesting (all the matches are very even).
This is going to be real fun! :cool:

w3wmfhe

05-12-2005, 11:18 AM

Hey I'm not that familiar with the strengths of the different teams except for Indonesia (strong in MS, MD, ok in XD and ABSOLUTE CRAP in WS and WD), and CHina (strong overall). Thanks for the analysis. Between Denmarks top WS player and Indonesia's, who's ranked higher?

:D
u can't judge them by ranking....if a person play less tournament..may hv lower rankin..but still could be world classic player in their top former...
i rememer b4 kim/ra won 12 straight tournament...their rankin r low..................but they r the most dangerious unseed pair

ctjcad

05-12-2005, 11:19 AM

On this, i would differ slightly..
Both have equal talent, but IMO Candra/Sigit have "more" experience/"seasoned" playing in "big, international" tourneys than Alven/Luluk...So personally i would put Candra/Sigit as Indo's "best pair"...I thought they lost today(in straight sets and not to take anything away from Cai/Fu) vs. Cai/Fu cos the score was 3-0 for China, so there's no need/urgency for Candra/Sigit to win their match..

Oh btw I would point out that Candra/Sigit isn't the best Indonesian MD..Alven/Luluk is. They are currently ranked 2nd.

seven

05-12-2005, 11:23 AM

Between Denmarks top WS player and Indonesia's, who's ranked higher?

Tine Rasmussen (ranked #11) being injured, top Dane is now Camilla Sorensen, ranked #70 in the world.

Indonesia's WS are Firdasari Adrianti (ranked #51) and Fransisca Ratnasari (ranked #86).

This looks pretty even just like that.

Overall however, I think Denmark are the favourites.
It will be a (half?)surprise if Indonesia wins the tie!

apontoh

05-12-2005, 11:27 AM

being indonesian myself its quite sad to see the current state of indonesian women's badminton ...i still remember those days..10 years ago ..when indonesia used to be what china is today..:o

apontoh

05-12-2005, 11:28 AM

w3wmfhe

05-12-2005, 11:31 AM

it'll be a close match for sure. when is the match scheduled? saturday?
yes...saturday....it will 14:00 pm china time

Loh

05-12-2005, 11:39 AM

Tine Rasmussen (ranked #11) being injured, top Dane is now Camilla Sorensen, ranked #70 in the world.

Indonesia's WS are Firdasari Adrianti (ranked #51) and Fransisca Ratnasari (ranked #86).

This looks pretty even just like that.

Overall however, I think Denmark are the favourites.
It will be a (half?)surprise if Indonesia wins the tie!

This is a tough one. Indonesia will lose if it fielded the same players against China. In that tie Indonesia was whitewashed 5-nil by China and Indonesia seemed to be testing their very young ladies and exposing them. But as someone has pointed out, Indonesia has better players which it may use against Denmark.

So it depends on who will be on Indonesia's line-up. :cool:

ctjcad

05-12-2005, 12:46 PM

I'm sure the Indos will field their top players on Saturday and if they can make it through, on Sunday as well..I think the key to the Indo vs. Denmark will be their XD..If they, most likely play Nova/Lilyana, are playing the 1st tie, they have to set the tone and get the win..If they can secure that flight, then the pressure will be on the Danes..But if they fail, then the pressure will be on the Indonesian as they have to depend on their WS flight..Strategy, strategy..hmmmm.. :rolleyes:

This is a tough one. Indonesia will lose if it fielded the same players against China. In that tie Indonesia was whitewashed 5-nil by China and Indonesia seemed to be testing their very young ladies and exposing them. But as someone has pointed out, Indonesia has better players which it may use against Denmark.

So it depends on who will be on Indonesia's line-up. :cool:

butterflyk

05-12-2005, 12:47 PM

no offense, but the Indos never had a better WD pair than China.

being indonesian myself its quite sad to see the current state of indonesian women's badminton ...i still remember those days..10 years ago ..when indonesia used to be what china is today..:o

raketkayu

05-12-2005, 01:43 PM

denmark will beat indo and china beat korea, and china win the final.
Although i really hope otherwise. :o

sen

05-12-2005, 03:43 PM

Otherwise mean : Indo v Korea final

denmark will beat indo and china beat korea, and china win the final.
Although i really hope otherwise. :o

demolidor

05-12-2005, 04:01 PM

yes...saturday....it will 14:00 pm china time

Good then that'll be the one on eurosport :cool: although it's saturday so there'll be other crappy programs on like: giro d'italia (rerun/summary previous day), european top 24 football (same show 3 times a week), world rally (summary/rerun, watching the same thing now) ... so instead of 3 it'll be an hour n half.

MS: indo
MD: indo
WS: denmark
WD: hmmm, indo? danish pair have been lousy so far, if Mette plays then denmark
XD: denmark
So the worst match might be the key :p
A little quick on the MD there :o Definitely THE key match
Too quick again: how serious is Tine's injury? Maybe she withdrew as a precaution otherwise probably indo so what's that 4-1 or 3-2 Indo :cool:

other

05-12-2005, 04:15 PM

Too quick again: how serious is Tine's injury? Maybe she withdrew as a precaution otherwise probably indo so what's that 4-1 or 3-2 Indo :cool:

she has a torn achilles tendon (i think, from earlier in this thread) so nope..no chance of her playing:(

will the danes stick with Juhl in the mixed, or switch juhl to WD and mette back into XD?

demolidor

05-12-2005, 04:20 PM

England vs Hong Kong in the matchup of #3's, tv-court 1400 beijing time so that'll be on euro.
That'll be boring, strengths of one are weaknesses of the other :(
Jeez 3 times england how boring no star potential @ all except XD ...
Rather watch Malaysia - Japan
MS: hk
MD: are they good? hk?
WS: hk
WD: hk
XD: eng

demolidor

05-12-2005, 04:22 PM

she has a torn achilles tendon (i think, from earlier in this thread) so nope..no chance of her playing:(

will the danes stick with Juhl in the mixed, or switch juhl to WD and mette back into XD?

Ok, thanks. Can't remember Juhl playing doubles, besides they'll win XD with her anyhow so Mette is more usefull in the WD.

other

05-12-2005, 04:27 PM

demolidor

05-12-2005, 04:32 PM

eng MD is not bad at all!

Just keep feeding Blair that's all ;) Agree they could very well win it, have been playing pretty well, anoying the better pairs even and will probably win making the WD the key match ... or NOT HK pair is #15 in the world ranking it seems (just looked it up) might actually be a good match: #15 - #21 :cool:
WS: will it be Wang Chen - Tracy Hallam? COuld be an upset but doubt it, Wang Chen is still ranked #5
:eek: :confused: are Tripp/Wright ranked #9 :D Didn't look like it against Korea, hmm Emms/Kellogg #10, might be interesting again (assuming HK will field a doubles with Wang Chen otherwise WD to england), what luck :)

other

05-12-2005, 04:41 PM

Just keep feeding Blair that's all ;) Agree they could very well win it, have been playing pretty well, anoying the better pairs even and will probably win making the WD the key match ...
WS: will it be Wang Chen - Tracy Hallam? COuld be an upset but doubt it, Wang Chen is still ranked #5

well it depends if robertson is able to play MD as well, if they schedule it so he gets enough rest. i mean clark is good and all, but doesn't have the mid court touch of robertson. i mean he nearly make more mistakes than yim in that tie against korea...or did yim make more:p...alright alright, their partners were just comparitively better and so it *looked* like they were making more errors:D

well, tracey hallam has played more opens i think, but Cann has beaten her in the recent nationals, and maybe someone wang chen hasn't seen much of will mean less pre-game intel and anaylsis? (i suppose they will have videos tho)

well ella tripp were playing a bit better at the end of the second set:p mmm there is a marked difference between the top 4 pairs and the rest of the top 10-15 (just look at the averaged points)

Qidong

05-12-2005, 04:54 PM

no offense, but the Indos never had a better WD pair than China.

Actually in 1993 Sudirman Cup semi-final, Indonesian beated China by winning WS, WD and MD.

butterflyk

05-12-2005, 05:19 PM

first of all, there is no such thing as 'beated'.
second, I might be a little bit self-righteous when I made that assertion, which I believe holds true. Predominance is like a heritage being descended within the Chinese WD squad over the years. You may argue that they had ups and downs; nonetheless, no other countries have ever been able to hand any significant threat to China as far as WD is concerned.
You are absolutely right that China lost in WD to Indo during SC93; it is also true that a week later China claimed the WD title in the world championships.

Actually in 1993 Sudirman Cup semi-final, Indonesian beated China by winning WS, WD and MD.

wirre

05-12-2005, 05:27 PM

china vs korea
denmark vs indo

on saturday....

IMO this was the worst draw for China (as proven previous Surdiman Cup).

Otherwise they will always be sure of 2 points from the women, but the korean WD are a real threat (the dane or indo WD have no hope at all to surprise). So now it is just one sure and one most likely....but not granted any more.

And although Korea probably have the weakest MS of all the teams in semi, an upset is still possible (although not likely).

Finally the MD and XD can go either way 50/50. In the past (like last Surdiman) I'd say this were 2 points "granted" for Korea, but with the developement in chinese MD and the weak korean performances against Denmark by both MD and XD I think the odds are even.

So China have one sure (WS), two most probable (MS & WD) and two 50/50.
Against any other country they'd have 2 sure (WS & WD), one most probable (MS) and two 50/50.

My prediction: China wins 4:1 (loses either WD, MD or XD). They are the clear favourites and this time they should manage to prevent any upset.

It's also the worst possible draw for Korea (of course), since otherwise (Denmark and Indo) they would have one point "granted" (WD) and all the other up for grabs (with a little weak MS and maybe stronger WS). But against China they don't have any "sure" points any longer, just two 50/50 (XD & MD) and two possible (but not likely) upsets (WD & MS).

Indo vs. Denmark is too hard to predict. MS, MD and XD are quite even, one can argu pros and cons but IMO it's more or less 50/50 in all three events. And I don't know what to say about the womens events...........if any team can gain 2 points out of WS & WD then I think that is the key to success.

/ mats

Wizbit

05-12-2005, 08:59 PM

For those that watched it, what happened between Korea and Denmark? especially MD and MXD...lost easily in two sets?

On current form and combinations so far in this championships, China will white wash Korea. Unless Korea has something hidden under their sleeves?:crying:

Sealman

05-12-2005, 10:55 PM

according to the website, it was gresya polii/lilyana natsir (Lita wasnt playing)

I must say these girls played quite well despite their young age. Polii is only 17yrs old? :eek:

Loh

05-12-2005, 11:28 PM

So China have one sure (WS), two most probable (MS & WD) and two 50/50.
Against any other country they'd have 2 sure (WS & WD), one most probable (MS) and two 50/50.

My prediction: China wins 4:1 (loses either WD, MD or XD). They are the clear favourites and this time they should manage to prevent any upset./

Your prediction of 4-1 to China doesn't seem to be well-supported if the above probables you mentioned still hold true.

You were sure about China securing the WS but less so for the other events. So in theory, Korea can still win all the probables and reverse your prediction by beating China 4-1 instead! :D

Maybe the final outcome will be 3-2, either way. :rolleyes:

seven

05-13-2005, 03:15 AM

Predominance is like a heritage being descended within the Chinese WD squad over the years. You may argue that they had ups and downs; nonetheless, no other countries have ever been able to hand any significant threat to China as far as WD is concerned.

Korean WD have "always" been a threat to chinese domination. :rolleyes:

butterflyk

05-13-2005, 05:49 AM

jcl49

05-13-2005, 05:53 AM

I must say these girls played quite well despite their young age. Polii is only 17yrs old? :eek:
Lin Dan represented China in the Thomas Cup when he was 19 (so did bao...but he lost). Additionally, girls' bodies develop faster and mature at an earlier age than guys. So, despite her young age, the might already be at her physical potential.

PS when did Mia enter the international scene??

kwun

05-13-2005, 05:57 AM

Lin Dan represented China in the Thomas Cup when he was 19 (so did bao...but he lost). Additionally, girls' bodies develop faster and mature at an earlier age than guys. So, despite her young age, the might already be at her physical potential.

PS when did Mia enter the international scene??

if i remember correctly, 13 or 14.

seven

05-13-2005, 06:30 AM

only not so signficant enough as to prevent the Chinese from cliaming one title after another; during the past 10 world championships, China won 9 times in WD. You might be able to say that the Koreans are the next best in WD; but threat? don't flatter them.

And how about the Olympics? Korea took the gold in 92, silver in 96, bronze in 2004...
And China didn't win many WGP Finals either, before Ge and Gu arrived on the scene.

Korea has always been a threat to chinese WD, whether you like it or not.
This does not mean that they have been consistently better than them, only a threat... :rolleyes:

butterflyk

05-13-2005, 11:39 AM

I wound't have wanted to say this, but you are just pathetic. So I declare that you win.

And how about the Olympics? Korea took the gold in 92, silver in 96, bronze in 2004...
And China didn't win many WGP Finals either, before Ge and Gu arrived on the scene.

Korea has always been a threat to chinese WD, whether you like it or not.
This does not mean that they have been consistently better than them, only a threat... :rolleyes:

wirre

05-13-2005, 01:42 PM

Your prediction of 4-1 to China doesn't seem to be well-supported if the above probables you mentioned still hold true.

You were sure about China securing the WS but less so for the other events. So in theory, Korea can still win all the probables and reverse your prediction by beating China 4-1 instead! :D

Maybe the final outcome will be 3-2, either way. :rolleyes:

I do find that I've supported my prediction, showing that China at least have 50/50 in every category, actually should be 100% sure in one and are big favourites in two.

So if we suppose no injury/sickness will make impact when *playing* I think China will win WS, WD and MS since that's what they are expected to do. And I also think the (IMO) 50/50 games will be evenly split.

But I also pointed out the dangers that lies in this draw for China, thus calling it the worst possible for them. Against Korea they have 4 possible failures, usually it's "only" 3.

So, yes it could go the other way too, or be 3:2 in anyones favour. But although my heart hopes for an upset, the mind tells me that China won't let that happen this time. Not at home soil, and with their eagerness for revenge since last final. Also conscidering that (IMO) Korea are weaker this time.

/ mats