Inspired by the precious Simon Archer thread.

What is wrong with some of the players in the UK? At many of the clubs I've played at some of the players have terrible court behaviour:

Tutting when their partner does something they don't like
Arguing about what their partner is doing
Not putting in the effort and 'throwing the game' because they think the game is lost already.

I play with many players far weaker than me on club nights and I always make a point of:

Saying unlucky when they miss a difficult stroke
Saying 'good shot' on their winners
Touching them on the shoulder with the racket often to encourage them.
Not talking about what I percieve as weaknesses until we're off court (if at all), and making the feedback sound positive.

I think the above should be taught BEFORE a player learns to serve.

What's it like in other countries?

UKP

almost all keen badminton players in the US are very curteous as far as i have seen.

unfortunately, there are bad oranges in every basket. most of those i have seen are the occasional warriors who comes in and think they own the gym. or some ungrown kids who has yet to learn the importance of being polite.

here in the netherlands i think there arrogant, some are ok, but most are not.
the players of the us national team though were very sportive, not anywhere near a bad behaviour

Hello Valentino!

Do you happened to know the website for Badminton Netherland? Thanks in advance

yes its www.badminton.nl, ... i reckon you know dutch?

I have played with a few people like this within the UK arena. I have found their attitude, arrogance and total ignorance of their partner to be most destructive.

I have also seen how this behaviour can create poor perception from other members of the club who will take pity on the person they feel is being assassinated by the "bad sport". So, in the end it is the one who dishes out such behaviour who not only destroys the confidence and playing level of their partner, they also damage peoples' perceptions of them to the extent, even if they are a good player people do not want to play with them.

The crazy thing is, they will be the first people to criticise others when they see such behaviour being displayed, yet cannot see how they are no better.

To compound matters they will then go on to blame their partner for the fact they lost the game - what a load of garbage! Such people should be "removed" from the badminton forum. Of course, we all like to win - but negativity breeds contempt it does not encourage additional effort and confidence.It provokes pressures that, in the main, forces errors rather than successes.

Were these people born "experts" that they can be so intolerant of others? Did they not have to learn the game themselves too? Did they find people tutting, huffing, throwing the game, walking of court, muttering, making gestures, etc constructive?

You may gather I feel strongly about this, you are right. Such players almost prevented me from ever wanting to pick up a racquet again! Fortunately I have evolved since then. I enjoy the sport now more than I have done before, and appreciate the people I play with more too - even "the weakest links"!

"The crazy thing is, they will be the first people to criticise others when they see such behaviour being displayed, yet cannot see how they are no better."

Many people like these in UK.

HK players generally are very polite. There are, of course, a few exceptions but unless it's tournament or match, people are pretty realistic and polite.
Normally, if there are people playing at a much higher level in the same session, it is also considered polite not to expect these people to play too many games with you. I think HK people have a high awareness of their contempories' skill and respect that.

M'sian players are also polite and again, it is also considered polite not to expect much better players to play too many games with you since you are wasting their time.

Conclusion:
HK/M'sia - good insight
UK - a larger minority have poor insight.

No, I don't know Dutch! I've to look up some tourney stuff, that all! Thanks a lot!

I play for 3 uk clubs, and admitt that there are a few of the sort of players that do have a bad court temperment. But i think that EVER player who is playing at a good standard and want s to win will lose there cool at some point.
I know that i have done it from time to time ( being a junior player emotions can get the better of me - i put it down to hormones). But there is nothing more fraustraighting in badminton then when you are running all round the court getting ever shot back, defending against smashes coming left, right and centre and basically playing well for your partner to blow the easy net shot the is 3 foot above the net and waiting to be killed off.
This as happened to everybody, and if anybody here says that they didn't get the slightest bit annoyed ( even on the inside and still said 'unlucky' to your partner...... like i do when ever they lose a point) then i woudn't beleive them because at some point, everybody get annoyed, so to a more extreme point then others.
Also, another reason why i think that younger players seem to be have bad court behaviour is that because if they are use to playing wityh other junior plays then they can get away with more ( i.e. a net shot which is just 2 inches to high) then when they play against the more experienced players and that shot doesn't work, they start to think that they are not playing as well as they normally do because that shot normally works, or if they are use to winning all the time at junior level but then lose at a adult level, they get anger..... well un-happy. I know this for a fact, because i use to be like that until not so long ago when i basically grew up and saw that no other players in my club that i respescted both as player and people didn't get anger, they had a lighter hearted look on the game. They all go out a play to win, but they go out to enjoy them-selves more, which i know see is just as, if not more important than whether they win or lose. Seeing people like this helped me see why we all play the game.....FOR ENJOYMENT
There may be some really angery players in the uk, but there are also some really nice ones, and it's people like that which we should talk about rather than the 'bad apples'

please note. That i know that i have got fraustraighted, but i have never shouted, argued or insulted a partner. I always uncourage them whether they won the point of not. And know i always try to be polite to people...... even when they give bad line calls.
So , i would like to think that i'm a polite young man that people would like to play with not just because of my skill level but because i'm a nice boy to be on court......... which i have been commented on in the past because of my sportsmanship and fair play

Ha -- Dutch is a piece of cake if you know English, German and Swedish! :)

I'd say here in Sweden people are very polite and encouraging. There are often bursts of disappointment or even anger, but very rarely directed against one's partner...

In my club, when the juniors have match training, the coach punishes ALL emotional display and bad court behaviour by loss of serve or a point. It may seem hard, but I actually think it's part of the coach's job to teach manners too... After all, badminton IS a gentleman's sport, right? ;)

I know this is going off the topic slightly but where in the UK are u guys from (for those who are in UK).

Because i must disagree, i am from Scotland and i play at club, national tourneys and so on and i must say it is very very rare to see a doubles partner shouting at his/her partner, if they do shout is when they themselves miss a shot and tryin to get focussed again, i do this at times.

Also at club nights i never see this, i am still in juniors tho..ie U19, which may have something to do with it but when i play for my club in league matches i never see this, i feel that a misrepresentation of UK players is being brought forward here as it is a very small minority that are like how u describe.

shaz.

In general there are arrogant players in any country and at any club. The remedy for these people is to be polite and wish them luck at the new club that they are obviously wanting to go to instead of being at the one they are currently at. In some clubs I have been to, exceptionally arrogant members have been asked to leave the club and their money refunded.

I prefer to subscribe to them accidentally slipping against my fist in the parking lot. But that's just me.

Shaz - and long may I hope your illusion l asts, but I fear as you venture into more clubs you will find more - maturer - players hold this arrogance, especially those who deem themselves to be "experts" of some kind, yet not expert enough to be county players..

Scottish people tend to be more genuine than the british ones - especially the ones in southern England where class consciousness appears to be more rife. I can state this quite easily as I have lived and played in both countries

keep playing - we need more younger players to filter through - especially if they have the pleasant manner you describe

very true point womever u may be, but i do play in club matches in 1st division and, obviously there are the arrogant types, but not as many as has been described, i dont know the situation with the english players, as i have only been there when i was on the u18 squad for my county, no experience with the older club players and their attitudes. By no means do i dispute the fact that there are a lot of arrongant players around but they are a minority and they tend to, imo, look for attention so i just ignore them which is very easy to do when playin against them, feel sorry for the guy playing with this so called "super" badminton player...lol.

Shaz - I think you'll find that you're good enough to shrug it off or no-ones going to give you grief in the first place. From first hand experience in playing in a County squad, there's a World of difference from mainstream clubs. Also if you go to any club while you're performing at a high level you're not likely to get that problem.

The problem arises for many people when you get a half decent player that thinks they're an expert because they're king of the club yet aren't really that good at all. Now I'm not saying this is all players, I am saying it is too prevalent in clubs and it needs to be stamped out.

I remember the firs time I picked up a racket having come back from a year's break after injury problems and it opened my eyes a lot to what goes on. On my first re-entry to a club with enough energy to play about half a game and extremeley rusty stroke work, I was lectured in 'how to play doubles' from a sub-standard player which I found most displeseant.


UKP

UKP, That person didn't have enough knowledge to recognise your underlying level of skill.
Bad manners does happen but I don'tt think it can be stamped out. It is partly a cultural thing. Many people in UK are jealous of success/people doing better. They can really bitch about it. They don't respect success. Just look at the number of complaints reported in the papers when a person won the lottery. a number of people will moan at the relatives/friend's lack of generosity. Of course, this repreents a minority but the 'minority' is larger in UK.

If anybody claims not to have been angry at their partner or vice versa, they've never played MIXED doubles with their spouse. :)

Cheung,
You're correct of course, it's not something that can be stamped out at clubs,but it's a nice thought isn't it :-)
UKP

A man I am now on "freidnly terms" with (hmm, we won't go into detail!) is a proficient badminton player. He used to play with the woman he lived with (but he doesn't live with her anymore now that I'm around!) and he always told me how difficult it was to play with his then "common low wife".

I suppose it's like teaching the person yo are closest to how to drive, not a good idea eh.

ps, love to the man I refer to above

Terri (call me soon, you have my number!!)

I am surprised the discussion hasn't broached the role of coaches. Obviously the first thing to teach and drum into every youngster's and beginner's head before any coaching starts, is court etiquette and its not just about getting the shuttle back to the other side or apologising for hitting someone with the shuttle, but also about consideration for your partner or opponent. Perhaps reminders should be added for the first couple of times until the message gets across.
Bad manners happen in tennis all the time and is extremely dangerous on the golf course, so I get it bad. John.

I agree wholeheartedly here.
I have had the benefit of a couple of B A of E coaches... One whom I considered to be nuturing and constructvie (though I admit I never played on court with him), the other I considered to be alternative in his attitude, and a very difficult person to play with. Sadly it was the experiences I had with the latter that almost put me off playing the game, though I thank heavens I saw he was in a minority.

Coaches should be ambassadors of the sport, particularly as these are people we look on as experts, they should lead by example, and if they don't then there should be a mechanism within B A of E to have their coach status invalidated.

In my two leagues in the U.S., most people who have played for more than a few months are very polite, reasonable, conscientious and appreciative of partners and opponents who make good shots. There are a few people who lack any sense of manners or who occasionally let their sense of competitiveness exceed their sense of fairness, but happily, those people are few and the objectionable incidents are rare. I have said something a few times to players who were not acting appropriately (screaming and throwing tantrums when they or their partner missed a shot, or who were not calling shots accurately), but have not heard anyone else do the same. I attribute this to the fact that most people, not just Americans, have a very herd-like mentality in social situations and few people want to create a ripple on the so-called social pond - the English author George Orwell was keenly aware of this common characteristic. I discussed this with a more experienced player in my league and referenced a particular player who frequently made bad calls in his/her favor, until I said something to the player about the problem. The response I received from the experienced player was "it doesn't matter" and that although others were also aware of this player's line call problem, I should not have said said anything. I think it does matter - it certainly mattered to me. For several months before speaking up, I did not enjoy playing with that person because I was always on my guard about bad calls; afterward, the player called shots accurately and it was a pleasure to play with that person, the same as with almost everyone else. Also, the tantrum throwing player has been pretty quiet since I spoke to him.

The reason all sports have players with a mentality like Randy Moss (NFL wide receiver for the Minnesota Vikings notorious for extreme immature, rude behavior, who recently told the press he only plays hard when he "feels like it.") is because people around him or her in the sport, be they parents, coaches, teammates, referees, etc.... have allowed them to act that way without saying anything.

Brett

You were lucky and perhaps those are the extremists.
What if those personalities refused to change?
What about those people who are usually polite until some small thing gets them annoyed (inappropriately) - like being served to when not ready?

Unfortunately society seems to have bred a generation where to a large number of people self expression and self indulgence have not been countered by an awareness of others.

Generally coaches do try to impress the right behaviour on players but there will always be some idiot who does not know how to behave.

One of my clubs bans from the club players who upset other players, another has a great policy, the members confront the player in question and tell him his behaviour is not acceptable a nd inform them, quite bluntly, what is expected of them. It seems to work

I was playing a mixed doubles match when the male opponent claimed I had moved before the serve had been taken. I didn't think I had (I was just too quick for him). As we don't have referees, the usual procedure is to play a let if there is a matter of dispute. This guy wouldn't hear of it, and took his next serve whilst my partner and I were standing discussing it with his lady partner. He wouldn't replay that point and just carried on. This really annoyed me, as I felt he wasn't playing in a good sportsmanlike manner. It ended up motivating me because I thought he was such an idiot, and we won the game. It was most satisfying. I think that winning against an opponent who isn't palying fair is the best form of revenge!

I have taken up badminton in Canada recently after playing many other sports including: football, soccer, basketball, tennis, hockey... I would have to say that the types of people you meet playing badmints have a tendency to be very friendly, courteous, and come from all types nationalities, ages, and backgrounds. A major reason (other than smashing) I have continued with this sport now, is because the top-notch players are always willing to help out with advice and are encouraging when playing games with less-experienced players.

There is always the 1 or 2 players with bad attitudes who badmouth their teammates or lack general sportsmanship. I have only found these players in the intermediate category. At our club, we have nicknamed one guy the "troll"...he likes to do cheap serves when the opponent is not ready, and he will blatantly make false calls on a shot being in/out....if you are a troll, good luck finding people to play with you.

I'm not deluding myself into thinking that I or any other relative stranger has a tremendous chance of impacting another player's life sufficiently to make permanent changes in his or her beliefs and personality, in response to a few comments made on the court. However, an appropriate comment may change the person's behavior, which is the most prominent issue for me and the rest of the players.

As for the player serving too quickly, the player receiving serve should call a let and continue to do so until the server gives him or her appropriate time to be ready. Not facing the serving court, until in position and collected, can also work with a server trying to rush the point.