View Full Version : Common Misconceptions
manduki
09-12-2005, 05:04 PM
Well, since badminton is taught at different levels and phys-ed teachers may alter the rules for max game play for his purpose. There are a few rules that no one, I mean NO ONE in my school knew and after I enlightened them, they did not believe until the coach vocuhed for me.
1. Your racket CANNOT cross over the net anytime. It may cross if the birdie was on your court when it was hit and if it was the result of a swing motion originated from your side of the court.
2. You can NEVER cross underneath the net with your feet or racket. you may cross if the opponent is not distracted so that he cannot perform the shot.
3.You CANNOT lunge at a serve. You cannot move until the birdie is hit and at that time you may do anything.
4. You CANNOT clash your racket. As long as you both don't hit it its fine.
5. If you play (hit) a shot that was the result of a double it counts! No it doesn't.
6. If the bird hits the net during a serve, it is considered a "net" and a reserve occurs. This isnt ping pong~~
7. You may go to the bathroom/leave the court after each set. You cannot leave the court for the first two matches but you may bring water to drink in between sets. You may go to the bathroom after the second set.
I know there are more out there. I think that it is a main problem when people representing their schools don't know the rules themselves. We should alert at least the BF'er's about these concealed rules. All feedback is welcome and corrections as well. I may have been wrong in the above rules.
terror
09-13-2005, 02:24 AM
ive heard numerous arguments about this one. i was pretty convinced i was right until my playmates came at me altogether. i always thought that for singles, the service line is the one all the way at the back? ie the shuttle is in when u serve and it lands between the 2 lines at the back? or am i wrong:confused:
Neil Nicholls
09-13-2005, 02:31 AM
i always thought that for singles, the service line is the one all the way at the back?
you are correct
i_two_net
09-13-2005, 02:49 AM
ive heard numerous arguments about this one. i was pretty convinced i was right until my playmates came at me altogether. i always thought that for singles, the service line is the one all the way at the back? ie the shuttle is in when u serve and it lands between the 2 lines at the back? or am i wrong:confused:
Yes, the singles service line is all the way to the baseline.
There was a time however, when I was a kid, when I insisted that the doubles long service line was in fact the "out" line for singles. Managed to convince my cousins and we played many a good game in a truncated "singles" court :p .
other
09-13-2005, 04:00 AM
5. If you play (hit) a shot that was the result of a double it counts! No it doesn't.
is that "all in one motion" thing still around?
Gollum
09-13-2005, 05:50 AM
is that "all in one motion" thing still around?
Yes. Double hits are perfectly acceptable, provided they occur during a single stroke.
manduki
09-13-2005, 03:33 PM
is that "all in one motion" thing still around?
When i say double i mean like one partner hits it and the other gets the rebound ie. drive
There are other "misunderstandings" such as in serving:
- both feet must be in contact with the floor. No foot lifting off the floor allowed. Often you see young girls lifting a foot by trying to get extra power on the serve.
- racquet moves in a single continuous motion. You cannot swing racquet forward, then back and then forward to contact the shuttle.
- racquet head must be lower than the lowest part of your hand when contacting the shuttle. If not, we can all serve tennis style.
manduki
09-13-2005, 03:50 PM
does your feet or bird have to stay in the box while serving?
does your feet or bird have to stay in the box while serving?
Your feet must be inside the box (and not touching the lines).
Your bird does not need to be inside. I am 6 ft tall so I usually lean forward to get closer to the net (less air time for the shuttle in air). However, the bird must be tight to the net or I will be eating the serve return.
egibooga
09-14-2005, 07:39 AM
- racquet head must be lower than the lowest part of your hand when contacting the shuttle. If not, we can all serve tennis style.
isnt it just the racquet head must be lower than ur waist??
Gollum
09-14-2005, 07:54 AM
isnt it just the racquet head must be lower than ur waist??
Nope. Rule 9.1.6.
There are two main rules about serving here - shuttle below waist, and racket head below hand. Read the laws!
egibooga
09-14-2005, 07:57 AM
Nope. Rule 9.1.6.
There are two main rules about serving here - shuttle below waist, and racket head below hand. Read the laws!
OK!!!!:):):) but its quite hard to get ur hand under ur waist and below ur racquet head and serve a good serve over :) lol
dont u agree??
OK!!!!:):):) but its quite hard to get ur hand under ur waist and below ur racquet head and serve a good serve over :) lol
dont u agree??
You want to practice now before getting called on illegal serve when in competition. :D
Gollum is right. I read from a previous post that serve judges are using a player's elbow height to determine the "waist level". Therefore, technically speaking, the shuttle has to be below the lowest part of your rib cage (on the side of the body).
I agree with Gollum know the law of badminton is the best option. When in competition, I was accused serving illegally. I gave them the rule book and said show me which law I broke and they could not. There is a saying in North America - know the rule so you can break it properly. :D
There are other things that a player can do to make the serve more diffcult for the oppenent to see. For example, the English player Natalie Munt waits till the last second to set the shuttle and then she serves with a second or two. That is really hard the opponent to jump the serve.
However, Ms Munt did not do that serve during the WC 2005. I wonder why.
i_two_net
09-14-2005, 10:39 AM
Yes. Double hits are perfectly acceptable, provided they occur during a single stroke.
Ooohh......learnt something new today!
Gollum
09-14-2005, 02:50 PM
OK!!!!:):):) but its quite hard to get ur hand under ur waist and below ur racquet head and serve a good serve over :) lol
dont u agree??
Yes, but that's not what the laws require ;) Read them carefully: racket head below racket hand, and shuttle below waist.
With double hits, remember that a stroke must be a continuous motion. You can't hit the shuttle up in the air, and then smash it!
samtruong200
09-15-2005, 11:52 PM
when you serve you cant hit the net? is that what one of the post said?
Neil Nicholls
09-16-2005, 01:28 AM
when you serve you cant hit the net? is that what one of the post said?
that was an example of one of the misconceptions
bigredlemon
09-16-2005, 01:45 AM
that was an example of one of the misconceptions
Just to be clear, if the shuttle touches the net during service and lands within the service area, it is neither a let nor a fault. It is a valid serve.
Though the misconception is popular: http://westlake.k12.oh.us/hilliard/whspe/badminton/badminton_rules.htm #3
jump_smash
09-16-2005, 02:08 AM
There are other things that a player can do to make the serve more diffcult for the oppenent to see. For example, the English player Natalie Munt waits till the last second to set the shuttle and then she serves with a second or two. That is really hard the opponent to jump the serve.
However, Ms Munt did not do that serve during the WC 2005. I wonder why.
My old friend and coach used to do a serve with he body angled so her shoulder was obscuring her hand and contact point of shuttle!
other
09-16-2005, 06:42 AM
My old friend and coach used to do a serve with he body angled so her shoulder was obscuring her hand and contact point of shuttle!
thought this is illegal
u have to have the shuttle in unobstructed view to the receiver from when u hit it (ie cant stand behind your mixed lady partner and serve so that it goes behind her (from the receivers POV)
cheongsa
09-16-2005, 10:42 AM
I saw a girl turn her back to the net to serve.
The shuttle is in clear view --- she holds it out with her left hand, but the racquet is not, until a split second before the shuttle is struck.
I suppose if it is legal people should/would not be doing it. How on earth is the server going to return a net shot reply to the serve?
I saw a girl turn her back to the net to serve.
The shuttle is in clear view --- she holds it out with her left hand, but the racquet is not, until a split second before the shuttle is struck.
I suppose if it is legal people should/would not be doing it. How on earth is the server going to return a net shot reply to the serve?
The receiver must be able to see the shuttle clearly (stated in the rule of badminton) However, there no nothing mentioned on the racquet. Therefore, Ms Munt's serve was tough for the receiver.
Read the rules and find a loophole, it will be to your advantages.
Quite a few years ago, the Chinese was serving back hand double serve. Instead of hitting the cork of the shuttle, they were hitting the feather instead. This made the flight path of the shuttle very "unstable" and the receivers had a hard to time to jump the serve. Well, the rule of badminton was changed - now you cannot hit the feather on serve. The Chinese found the loophole and enjoyed the advantage for a bit.
As your teacher will say, it pays to read. :)
DinkAlot
09-16-2005, 01:10 PM
Your feet must be inside the box (and not touching the lines).
Your bird does not need to be inside. I am 6 ft tall so I usually lean forward to get closer to the net (less air time for the shuttle in air). However, the bird must be tight to the net or I will be eating the serve return.
LOL Frank! I need to work on my serve, I eat the serve many times a day. :p
DinkAlot
09-16-2005, 04:20 PM
Good info, thanks. I didn't know about the one about the Bathroom break.
jump_smash
09-19-2005, 02:32 AM
thought this is illegal
u have to have the shuttle in unobstructed view to the receiver from when u hit it (ie cant stand behind your mixed lady partner and serve so that it goes behind her (from the receivers POV)
What - point it out in the rules!
jump_smash
09-19-2005, 02:38 AM
The receiver must be able to see the shuttle clearly (stated in the rule of badminton) However, there no nothing mentioned on the racquet. Therefore, Ms Munt's serve was tough for the receiver.
Read the rules and find a loophole, it will be to your advantages.
Quite a few years ago, the Chinese was serving back hand double serve. Instead of hitting the cork of the shuttle, they were hitting the feather instead. This made the flight path of the shuttle very "unstable" and the receivers had a hard to time to jump the serve. Well, the rule of badminton was changed - now you cannot hit the feather on serve. The Chinese found the loophole and enjoyed the advantage for a bit.
As your teacher will say, it pays to read. :)
Frank firstly point out the rule on seeing the shuttle clearly!
Secondly , what you are refering to is the S serve or sometimes crocodile,
(see Han's article http://www.badmintoncentral.com/badminton-central/content/view/20/26/)
the rules actually state your first contact has to be with the base (cork)) 9.1.4.
Neil Nicholls
09-19-2005, 03:22 AM
The only rule I know of about being able to see the shuttle relates to the service
9.7 In doubles, the partners may take up any positions which do not unsight the opposing server or receiver.
Frank firstly point out the rule on seeing the shuttle clearly!
Secondly , what you are refering to is the S serve or sometimes crocodile,
(see Han's article http://www.badmintoncentral.com/badminton-central/content/view/20/26/)
the rules actually state your first contact has to be with the base (cork)) 9.1.4.
Sorry, I should have quoted the rule.
As Neil Nicholls points out Rule 9.7 is the one that I am referring to. The receiver should be able to see the shuttle. This rule is "more important" in doubles as the partner can block the view on the shuttle completely.
Yes, currently Rule 9.1.4 states the base of the cork mus be the first contact point in the serve. However, back in the 1970s (if I recalled correctly), there was no mention about the base of the cork to be the first point of contact. That was how the Chinese explored the loophole.
Neil Nicholls
09-19-2005, 11:22 AM
The receiver should be able to see the shuttle.
nothing says that.
only that server's partner cannot block the receiver's view.
It appears to be perfectly legal for the server to block the receiver's view.
It's another matter again if there is a service judge, because if the server unsights the service judge then a let probably has to be called.
TrunkZ69
09-19-2005, 01:14 PM
2. You can NEVER cross underneath the net with your feet or racket. you may cross if the opponent is not distracted so that he cannot perform the shot.
3.You CANNOT lunge at a serve. You cannot move until the birdie is hit and at that time you may do anything.
I remember hearing in a dvd about a new law (From 04 i think) that its okay for your foot to go under the net now. I believe it was gade vs LD AE 04 final where i heard it.
as for lunging at teh serve, you can always do it after they hit the bird ;P
does anyone know when the start of the serve is? I believe it is when the forward motion begins, not at the contact point.
nothing says that.
only that server's partner cannot block the receiver's view.
It appears to be perfectly legal for the server to block the receiver's view.
It's another matter again if there is a service judge, because if the server unsights the service judge then a let probably has to be called.
How would a server block the "sight" of the shuttle from the receiver? :confused:
The server can use the hand (the one holding onto the shuttle) to cover the entire shuttle. However, as soon as the shuttle leaves the server's hand, the shuttle will be spotted.
I do not think any server will turn around (i.e. facing the baseline) and serve in an attempt to block the receiver from view the shuttle.
If the receiver believes the shuttle is blocked, he/she can choose to play a let (even without a service judge present). I have seen this in a competition before. Then the tournament organizer has to made a call on the blocking the sight of the shuttle.
I remember hearing in a dvd about a new law (From 04 i think) that its okay for your foot to go under the net now. I believe it was gade vs LD AE 04 final where i heard it.
as for lunging at teh serve, you can always do it after they hit the bird ;P
does anyone know when the start of the serve is? I believe it is when the forward motion begins, not at the contact point.
The start of the service
Rule 9.4 Once the players have taken their positions, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service.
In case anyone is wondering:
Rule 9.5 Once started (Law 9.4), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server’s racket or, in attempting to serve, the server misses the shuttle.
I have included the link from IBF on the Law of Badminton.
Law of Badminton (http://www.worldbadminton.net/Portal/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=96)
For the "invasion" of the opponent's court, read Rule 13.4
Neil Nicholls
09-19-2005, 01:38 PM
How would a server block the "sight" of the shuttle from the receiver? :confused:
The server can use the hand (the one holding onto the shuttle) to cover the entire shuttle.
I can't think of much else, but I've even heard people say that covering the shuttle with the hand is illegal.
How would a server block the "sight" of the shuttle from the receiver? :confused:
May be this can be a possible loophole that we can explore.
Anyone got any ideas that a server can take advantage of this and confuse the receiver?
I can't think of much else, but I've even heard people say that covering the shuttle with the hand is illegal.
IMO, the server's hand covering the shuttle is not an effective method. Something more drastic is needed to confuse the receiver's attention.
I think we should explore this and see whether there is a loophole that a server can take an advantage here.
LOL Frank! I need to work on my serve, I eat the serve many times a day. :p
Does that mean a helmet is needed? :p
If the opponent jumps my serve, sometimes I will need my partner to do a flat drive right back to the service receiver to catch him/her off guard.
DinkAlot
09-19-2005, 02:23 PM
Does that mean a helmet is needed? :p
Nope helmet is needed, at least not now. :p
Actually, I got lucky (*keeps fingers crossed and knocks on wood)*, with the help of SCChang, I really improved my serve just over the weekend. SC said I stood too far back and it was making me inconsistent with my serve, as well as making it hard to get to return drop shots. SC suggested I stand right up at the service line and for some reason, my serves are getting over low and no helmet is now required. :D
Nope helmet is needed, at least not now. :p
Actually, I got lucky (*keeps fingers crossed and knocks on wood)*, with the help of SCChang, I really improved my serve just over the weekend. SC said I stood too far back and it was making me inconsistent with my serve, as well as making it hard to get to return drop shots. SC suggested I stand right up at the service line and for some reason, my serves are getting over low and no helmet is now required. :D
Good for you. Just watch out some guys will time your serve and jump on it so racquet up and drive right back to them.
DinkAlot
09-19-2005, 03:24 PM
Good for you. Just watch out some guys will time your serve and jump on it so racquet up and drive right back to them.
That's where the flick serve comes into play. :p
manduki
09-19-2005, 03:52 PM
I remember hearing in a dvd about a new law (From 04 i think) that its okay for your foot to go under the net now. I believe it was gade vs LD AE 04 final where i heard it.
as for lunging at teh serve, you can always do it after they hit the bird ;P
does anyone know when the start of the serve is? I believe it is when the forward motion begins, not at the contact point.
Yes your feet may go under the net. I should have made that clear as part of the misconception. it is commonly thought that your feet cannot cross the net. However, it may cross as long as doing so does not distract the receiver in a way that they were affected in performing the shot.
jump_smash
09-21-2005, 10:05 PM
Sorry, I should have quoted the rule.
As Neil Nicholls points out Rule 9.7 is the one that I am referring to. The receiver should be able to see the shuttle. This rule is "more important" in doubles as the partner can block the view on the shuttle completely.
Yes, currently Rule 9.1.4 states the base of the cork mus be the first contact point in the serve. However, back in the 1970s (if I recalled correctly), there was no mention about the base of the cork to be the first point of contact. That was how the Chinese explored the loophole.
Thanks, but this rule (9.7) makes no mention of shuttle, just server and receiver! So the block of the shuttle view is not illegal.
other
09-22-2005, 04:25 AM
Thanks, but this rule (9.7) makes no mention of shuttle, just server and receiver! So the block of the shuttle view is not illegal.
ah thanks for pointing that out...
Thanks, but this rule (9.7) makes no mention of shuttle, just server and receiver! So the block of the shuttle view is not illegal.
9. SERVICE
9.7 In doubles, the partners may take up any positions which do not unsight the opposing server or receiver.
The main point of interest on the service in doubles is able to see the shuttle at the serve.
OK, so how would you propose a legal service in doubles with the partner blocking the "view" of the shuttle? Remember the shuttle cannot touch the partner's body, clothes or racquet and still go over the net. I can only think of high serve to go over my partner's head.
I do not think in doubles serving high all the time is a wise move.
If "unsight the opposing server or receiver", then most of the female players in XD will be violating this rule. As most of the female players is at the front during service but she will likely block the "sight" of her male partner or parts of his body from the receiver sight line.
jump_smash
09-26-2005, 08:23 PM
9. SERVICE
9.7 In doubles, the partners may take up any positions which do not unsight the opposing server or receiver.
The main point of interest on the service in doubles is able to see the shuttle at the serve.
OK, so how would you propose a legal service in doubles with the partner blocking the "view" of the shuttle? Remember the shuttle cannot touch the partner's body, clothes or racquet and still go over the net. I can only think of high serve to go over my partner's head.
I do not think in doubles serving high all the time is a wise move.
If "unsight the opposing server or receiver", then most of the female players in XD will be violating this rule. As most of the female players is at the front during service but she will likely block the "sight" of her male partner or parts of his body from the receiver sight line.
Thanks, but I didn't mention partner blocking the view of shuttle only mentioned server blocking view of shuttle, which under the current rules is not mentioned!
As to second paragraph, it is dowm to defonition of unsight opposing server or reciever, as most female players do not totaly block the view of the reciever, and as to your point in previous paragraph if they did this then the server would only be able to execute a high serve over their heads.
[QUOTE=jump_smash]Thanks, but I didn't mention partner blocking the view of shuttle only mentioned server blocking view of shuttle, which under the current rules is not mentioned!
[QUOTE]
"Server blocking view of shuttle" - I think this is easier to say it than actually doing it. I have a hard time to visualize how this can be done effectively (as in a previous reply to Neil Nicholls).
How would you propose the server to block the view of the shuttle and still perform a legal and effective serve?
jump_smash
10-03-2005, 11:11 PM
Thanks, but I didn't mention partner blocking the view of shuttle only mentioned server blocking view of shuttle, which under the current rules is not mentioned!
[QUOTE]
"Server blocking view of shuttle" - I think this is easier to say it than actually doing it. I have a hard time to visualize how this can be done effectively (as in a previous reply to Neil Nicholls).
How would you propose the server to block the view of the shuttle and still perform a legal and effective serve?
Frank, thanks.
See one of my previous posts,
My old friend and coach used to do a serve with he body angled so her shoulder was obscuring her hand and contact point of shuttle! , http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showpost.php?p=287903&postcount=20
rudytjip
10-13-2005, 08:25 PM
I remember that it was the Malaysian men's doubles players (not Chinese) who used to serve by brushing the feather, making the shuttle so wobbly that even if you can return the serve it would go in wild directions. I think it was the Sidek brothers. As I remember IBF changed the rule on that one very quickly, within a couple of years.
Sorry, I should have quoted the rule.
As Neil Nicholls points out Rule 9.7 is the one that I am referring to. The receiver should be able to see the shuttle. This rule is "more important" in doubles as the partner can block the view on the shuttle completely.
Yes, currently Rule 9.1.4 states the base of the cork mus be the first contact point in the serve. However, back in the 1970s (if I recalled correctly), there was no mention about the base of the cork to be the first point of contact. That was how the Chinese explored the loophole.
rudytjip
10-13-2005, 08:31 PM
While the "shuttle below the waist" is definitely in IBF rules, if you see the doubles matches at the WC05, so many players were hitting the serve above the waist that I thought that maybe they've changed the rules. For example, look at the Danish men's doubles (the pair that Tony/Howard beat in the qf) or Lilyana Natsir -- they practically hit the shuttle chest-high, but with the racket head always below the hand.
I would like to have a definitive agreement on this. Is the "shuttle below the waist" rule still in effect????
Nope. Rule 9.1.6.
There are two main rules about serving here - shuttle below waist, and racket head below hand. Read the laws!
jump_smash
10-13-2005, 09:04 PM
While the "shuttle below the waist" is definitely in IBF rules, if you see the doubles matches at the WC05, so many players were hitting the serve above the waist that I thought that maybe they've changed the rules. For example, look at the Danish men's doubles (the pair that Tony/Howard beat in the qf) or Lilyana Natsir -- they practically hit the shuttle chest-high, but with the racket head always below the hand.
I would like to have a definitive agreement on this. Is the "shuttle below the waist" rule still in effect????
Ruling is correct, interpretation is that waist is lowest rib bone.
event
10-14-2005, 12:59 AM
The start of the service
Rule 9.4 Once the players have taken their positions, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service.
In case anyone is wondering:
Rule 9.5 Once started (Law 9.4), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server’s racket or, in ...I have had many people complain when I do an abrupt backswing in advance of the serve. I place the racquet head in front of me, then the shuttle in front of that. Then I jerk the racquet head back toward my body, pause, and then begin the forward motion. Many players expect an immediate forward motion so when it doesn't come, they complain that I have had two movements. I thought that only the forward movement needed to be continuous and that a separate backswing was okay. Nothing in the rules contradicts this. Even a coach from Kim Dong-moon's professional team accused me of this (which is ironic since I'm convinced one of his top players breaks rule 9.7 on almost every serve) when I did this against him. The only thing I can think of is that jerking a racquet head back may produce a tiny bit of instability when the backward motion is stopped but I don't think my opponents are keen enough to detect this. When people are miffed at having been caught off-guard, it isn't uncommon to conclude that there must have been something wrong with it.
The other weird thing about where I'm from is that no one ever calls a net touch violation unless the tape is touched. When an arm or hip contacts the mesh, no one says "boo". I think I've seen glancing contact with mesh go uncalled in an international match, too, but I can't remember where. In local club games, though, I've seen entire torsos go crashing into the mesh (the bottoms are never tied off) and no opponent even considers calling a fault whereas contact with the tape is always called with vigilance.
CWB001
10-14-2005, 02:52 AM
I have had many people complain when I do an abrupt backswing in advance of the serve. I place the racquet head in front of me, then the shuttle in front of that. Then I jerk the racquet head back toward my body, pause, and then begin the forward motion. Many players expect an immediate forward motion so when it doesn't come, they complain that I have had two movements. I thought that only the forward movement needed to be continuous and that a separate backswing was okay. Nothing in the rules contradicts this. Even a coach from Kim Dong-moon's professional team accused me of this (which is ironic since I'm convinced one of his top players breaks rule 9.7 on almost every serve) when I did this against him. The only thing I can think of is that jerking a racquet head back may produce a tiny bit of instability when the backward motion is stopped but I don't think my opponents are keen enough to detect this. When people are miffed at having been caught off-guard, it isn't uncommon to conclude that there must have been something wrong with it.
The other weird thing about where I'm from is that no one ever calls a net touch violation unless the tape is touched. When an arm or hip contacts the mesh, no one says "boo". I think I've seen glancing contact with mesh go uncalled in an international match, too, but I can't remember where. In local club games, though, I've seen entire torsos go crashing into the mesh (the bottoms are never tied off) and no opponent even considers calling a fault whereas contact with the tape is always called with vigilance.
What you describe about your serve is perfectly legal, as long as there is only one continuous forward movement which no inadvertent jerk forward at the end of the backswing.
Most people expect that the serve starts from the first backward movement but this is definitely not the case, as quoted above.
I guess it causes grief to people mainly when you normally serve without the pause and occasionally do the pause becasue they are using the backward movement as their cue to move - which is itself illegal.
You could always carry a copy of the rules with you - which is good advice for anyone, really - to show the doubters who challenge you.
You should start calling net touches properly yourself. Local variations are not valid and the rule talks about the net in its entirety - not just the tape.
Some will argue that it should not matter, but the fact is that it does and they are being penalised for lack of control, effectively.
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