malaysian Ladies badminton

[gemini12]

compare to other countries like Indonesia, Thailand,Korea and Japan who manage to produce some world class Ladies players.why is it that Malaysia are unable to produce good ladies players while we have world class Men Players.

Its hard to believe we are lack of talent. Sadly as a strong badminton nation, we are left behind in the women badminton. So far we have only Wong Mew Choo to carry our ladies names. I hope BAM will do something to raise the standard of our Women Player.It would be nice to see our ladies command the same respect as our Men player.

[gemini12]

Wong Mew Choo manage to bring some light in the MalaysianWomen Camp. Hope she will lead the juniors to more success in future. Heard we have Julia Wong, Norshaliza Baharom and Anita Kaur who is currently train with the Rashid Grp.

anyone knows anything about these players

[twdc08]

the others seldom take part in competitions......bam only sends wmc to play in tournaments

[chibe_K]

I wonder who the head coach is for women's team ? Is it still Cheah Soon Kit ?

[ants]

We will pick up soon. I do agree that currently we still lack of ladies players. But we have more gals in the grassroots programme compare with the current 2006-2012 Projects.

However we need to promote the game to more gals and important thing to convince their parents on letting their daughters to play the game. Msian folks are hard to convince sometimes.

[event]

However we need to promote the game to more gals and important thing to convince their parents on letting their daughters to play the game. Msian folks are hard to convince sometimes.

I have often wondered whether the size of the talent pool were an issue. Obviously, the existence of a proven system is a key factor behind the success of Denmark and Malaysia internationally even with such large countries with huge talent pools like China, Thailand, Indonesia and Korea. Still, when a country can combine a successful system of grooming elite athletes with a large pool of prospective champions from which to select those elite prodigies, their chances of success is bound to be higher. This may be why China dominates both the men's (at least on a team basis) and women's game today. For small countries like Denmark or Malaysia to be competitive, they need to be more effective in their training or more perceptive or fortunate in their selection of prodigies.

Obviously there is going to be a vicious circle effect. If only the men or only the men and Wong Mew Choo show any promise in international competition, then, as twdc08 said, they are the only ones that BAM will bank on and send further afield to compete.

But from a bottom-up perspective, is there any cultural or economic barrier or anything else in the system of recruitment, training or even exposure to the sport that would limit the size of the talent pool for women more than for men? For example, I have only heard of a handful of women who played for Malaysia who were not of Chinese background. I realize that the number of Malaysian players I have heard of means this is not statistically significant and that having only visited the country three times and having never played badminton there means that I have no other insight.

[khwong]

I wonder who the head coach is for women's team ? Is it still Cheah Soon Kit ?
Yup, he's still the one in charge!

[gemini12]

Yup, he's still the one in charge!

Cheah Soon Kit is in charge of the Women National Doubles. He is a good coach and he is doing well so far.

The National Women is under Li Mao whom he is currently coaching Wong Mew Choo but I heard Julia Wong and Norshaliza will be joing the national training soon.

What happened to the rest of the Malaysian Women Single? Are they still around?

[**KZ**]

woon sze mei was quite a good player

but she became a coach already

[gemini12]

yup... she is good. how about Julia Wong from Malacca. We have a few upcoming player. Hope they will made more impact.

If only our women could win a major title, then only we could command some respect in our women performance

[Loh]

Still, when a country can combine a successful system of grooming elite athletes with a large pool of prospective champions from which to select those elite prodigies, their chances of success is bound to be higher. This may be why China dominates both the men's (at least on a team basis) and women's game today. For small countries like Denmark or Malaysia to be competitive, they need to be more effective in their training or more perceptive or fortunate in their selection of prodigies.

(I have to agree with you on this one. A bigger base means more to choose from. Singapore, being physically small with a very small population size, has been struggling to increase its talent pool and therefore has to resort to foreign talent.)

(But as you have indicated, there are a few exceptions like Denmark in particular. Despite its relatively small talent pool, Denmark has consistently produced world-class players. Maybe it is the badminton culture that has started long ago and an orderly system of assimilating newcomers into it and developing them into top-class players. For example, how may Asian badminton superpowers have a professional league as in Denmark?)


But from a bottom-up perspective, is there any cultural or economic barrier or anything else in the system of recruitment, training or even exposure to the sport that would limit the size of the talent pool for women more than for men? For example, I have only heard of a handful of women who played for Malaysia who were not of Chinese backbadminton culture that has been
ground.

Interesting observation, but this may produce different answers from country to country and from sport to sport.

First, there is still a taboo on girls participating in sports for many Asian families and I was told that in Iran, the women played out of sight of men in major badminton tournaments, ie, they are not found on the same courts as the men for religious reasons. Badminton is not a cheap game either as the shuttlecocks are costly unless sponsored. Many Asian countries are still economically underdeveloped compared to the West.

Cultural priorities like education being supremely important to the overseas Chinese that they rather see their children doing well in studies than in sports. In Singapore, even though sports talented students are offered a place in our prestigious Sports School, their parents may reject the offer in preference for a normal type school to ensure that their children can concentrate on their studies. So, in the end, the talent pool gets even smaller, unless there is a mindset change.

Even a game so popular as soccer has very, very few Chinese players in the S-League, which is dominated by Malay players despite the fact that about 70% of the population is Chinese. The reason is that soccer is relatively cheap as one ball can be played among 22 children or more in an open field or park. And as a professional footballer, the income is not bad either. Our best known Malay football player has earned a million during his professional career and is now a coach. :D

[event]

as you have indicated, there are a few exceptions like Denmark in particular. Despite its relatively small talent pool, Denmark has consistently produced world-class players. Maybe it is the badminton culture that has started long ago and an orderly system of assimilating newcomers into it and developing them into top-class players. For example, how may Asian badminton superpowers have a professional league as in Denmark?)

Too true. If you look at a country like Canada, in most areas, any kid has the opportunity to be exposed to badminton at least from age 14. On the other hand, year-round gym facilities and top-notch coaching are hardly geographically or financially accessible to anyone. In Korea, year-round gyms and high-level coaching are always nearby and may sometimes be subsidized for the kids who are allowed or just happen to take the opportunity but so few kids are given the opportunity to try their hand at the sport.

My guess is that in Denmark or Indonesia, the history and popularity of the sport means that almost everyone has the chance to try badminton from an early age and that those who show promise likely have access to high-level coaching and facilities that are dedicated to badminton. That kind of system increases the size of your talent pool even if the population is small. For all I know, there could be similar systems in England, Sweden or other European countries but a big difference would still be that in those countries, there are many other sports with popularity and history that are competing for the countries' top athletes. Soccer is popular in every badminton nation but in Europe you have sports like hockey, tennis, cricket, rugby and skiing that also have long traditions and must have established recruiting systems.

As for women in Malaysia, it sounds like the pressure for girls to do no sports is the main competition for badminton trainers. That sounds like the situation in Korea for both boys and girls, in fact moreso for boys, perhaps, since parents in Korea still see their welfare in their old age depending on the earning power of their sons (but not their daughters). That is why sport for children here doesn't exist apart from elite programs. So the question becomes: is the anti-sports pressure for Malaysian girls stronger relative to that for Malaysian boys (even taking into account the attraction of boys to football) and relative to that for girls in other Asian countries? I know the strictness of policies in Iran has to differ from that in Malaysia but I remember seeing billboards about head-scarves in Kelantan. Are edicts against Muslim girls running around in shorts in mixed company pretty standard? Is Malaysia's talent pool effectively limited to a subset of non-Muslim girls whose parents exert less pressure to avoid sports? I admit I know nothing in this area. I'm guessing there might be some exceptions as this post mentions one of Datuk Sidek's daughters playing in the Commonwealth games.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27581

Still, even if any group of prospective Malaysian women champions faces mere pressure rather than outright exclusion, then Malaysia's tradition of excellence in recruiting, competing and coaching becomes all the more important.

I'm just glad they made it back into the top pool in the Sudirman Cup and I hope their women become a force to be reckoned with by the time the next event comes up. I was especially impressed by the success, late last year, of Koo Kien Keat and Wong Pei Tty in mixed doubles. Was that not a significant upturn in Malaysian fortunes in the mixed event at least?

[weeyet]

actually, the main reason is that BAM IS NOT MUCH CONCERN about the ladies development, they just concentrate on the males. Cheah Soon Kit had voiced this before, the ladies need more competition and exposure.

[xijiayu]

Well, our ladies are not so good in badminton, but they are definitely better in squash. I nearly switch to squash recently. :D

[gemini12]

actually, the main reason is that BAM IS NOT MUCH CONCERN about the ladies development, they just concentrate on the males. Cheah Soon Kit had voiced this before, the ladies need more competition and exposure.

yes. I have read about that once. This year our Malaysian women have made some significant progress under Li Mao and Cheah Soon Kit.

Even the Junior programme under Rashid and Tey Seu Bock has also improved with Norshaliza and Julia Wong making progress.

We maybe a small nation but i dont think we are lack of talented ladies. look at some of the Junior on the court and competition,we certainly have players but how to get these players and train them to be world class beater.

I have seen the national junior circuit held in various states and i have noted that we do have some good players with talent, height and physique. For example i have seen in Kedah a few under 12 girls and under 14 girls who displayed fine skills.

I feel if proper attention are given to the Junior Programme very soon we have girls who could be world beater too. What is your comment? Who do u think have the potential to be groom to be a world beater?

Wong Mew Choo have set a pace, let hope there is more good news from her and the future of our women who have been sadly left behind.

[gemini12]

Wong Mew Choo now rank world no 13. If BAM starts sending our ladies to more tournament like they have send WMC then not only the standard of our ladies will be raised but the world ranking will also be more reflective of their actual standard.

Keep it up Mew Choo.

[kienkeatlover]

Wong Mew Choo now rank world no 13. If BAM starts sending our ladies to more tournament like they have send WMC then not only the standard of our ladies will be raised but the world ranking will also be more reflective of their actual standard.

Keep it up Mew Choo.

ONE THING THAT I AM AFRAID ABT OUR WOMEN PLAYERS IS THEIR LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE. I'M NOT REALLY WANT TO SAY THIS BUT EVERYTIME SHE (MEW CHOO) SAID ABT GETTING THE NEXT LEVEL,THATS WEN SHE LOSE. BUT,IT DOESNT MEAN DAT I DONT SUPPORT HER JUST I WISH SHE WILL MAKE MALAYSIAN PROUD ESP. 4 THIS SEA GAMES IN MANILA.

[ksooi]

hmm wonder if you are really KKK's lover....
well wmc is defending her gold medal in manila so the pressure is on her....and mind you she has problems with both her knees...so to be out injured and still back playing after a long layoff is an achievement of its kind...a lot of players would have given up...so to all you malaysian badminton fans out there, give her a bit of time....afterall malaysia is not like china where they produce women players like a factory....

btw, li mao is not the womens coach.....so happened tht wmc is put under him coz he is the singles high performance coach.....

[FEND.]

SIF, all you guys forgot about Joanne from the forums.

[**KZ**]

SIF, all you guys forgot about Joanne from the forums.



joanne quay?
heard bout her.....wonder where shes been?
former world jr MX silver medallist with chan chong ming
she should still be quite young....
where is she?

[FEND.]

joanne quay?
heard bout her.....wonder where shes been?
former world jr MX silver medallist with chan chong ming
she should still be quite young....
where is she?

I meant Joanne from the forums :P

[ksooi]

joanne quay?
heard bout her.....wonder where shes been?
former world jr MX silver medallist with chan chong ming
she should still be quite young....
where is she?


errr....not silver medallist in the the world junior melbourne 1998 but champions......
chan chong ming also won the MD with Teo Seng Kok tht year...

CCM has won the world junior and also asian junior twice in MD....hopefully he will win the MD WC soon..... :D

[kienkeatlover]

hmm wonder if you are really KKK's lover....
well wmc is defending her gold medal in manila so the pressure is on her....and mind you she has problems with both her knees...so to be out injured and still back playing after a long layoff is an achievement of its kind...a lot of players would have given up...so to all you malaysian badminton fans out there, give her a bit of time....afterall malaysia is not like china where they produce women players like a factory....

btw, li mao is not the womens coach.....so happened tht wmc is put under him coz he is the singles high performance coach.....

LETS JUST HOPE SO. I AM QUITE CONFUSED IF U R MALAYSIAN,OR SINGAPOREAN BECAUSE I WANT TO ASK ALL OF MALAYSIAN FAN WHETHER U AGREE IF OUR WOMEN TEAM HAVE IMPORT PLAYER FROM CHINA TO MAKE OUR TEAM MORE COMPETITIVE AS U CAN SEE LIKE PI HONG YAN (FRANCE) AND MANY OTHER.:confused:

[event]

I WANT TO ASK ALL OF MALAYSIAN FAN WHETHER U AGREE IF OUR WOMEN TEAM HAVE IMPORT PLAYER FROM CHINA TO MAKE OUR TEAM MORE COMPETITIVE Congratulations, lover, on solving the bold font problem. Good luck with the CAPS LOCK.

I'm assuming you are asking whether other Malaysians agree that the Malaysian team should import players from China. As far as I know, none are imported now. I won't intrude on this query, though. I just look forward to seeing Malaysian women continue to mount a challenge internationally.

[chibe_K]

Malaysia women's team need to work on physical fitness. I noticed most players are quite skinny, its a big disadvantage to play against the Chinese, Koreans, and Danes because they are phisically bigger in terms of height and weight, which give them more power.

Physical fitness is very fundamental in any sports, look at the girl (I forgot her name) from Taiwan that played at WC 2005 semi-finals against Xie XinFang from China. The girl from Taiwan was very good (I enjoyed watching her play) and shes definitely no less skillful than Xie. But Xie has a big advantage because she is taller.

[fishnet wen*yi]

hmm... it's quite true that we dun seem to hav many outstanding women players as of now besides wong mew choo and chin ee hui/wong pei tty but there are definitely a few junior players who r rather impressive. Did anyone even mention Lydia Cheah? she's only 16 and she's the current national junior champ. she does quite well in senior national tournaments too. she became the youngest player to reach a national grand prix final at the age of 15 last yr. plus, she's beaten norsyahliza baharum b4.


besides, julia, norsyahliza, anita and lydia r still young. :P and currently, there's this 14-yr-old malacca player, tee jing yi, who is drawing quite a lot of attention too. wait and c la. :p

[fishnet wen*yi]

Malaysia women's team need to work on physical fitness. I noticed most players are quite skinny, its a big disadvantage to play against the Chinese, Koreans, and Danes because they are phisically bigger in terms of height and weight, which give them more power.

Physical fitness is very fundamental in any sports, look at the girl (I forgot her name) from Taiwan that played at WC 2005 semi-finals against Xie XinFang from China. The girl from Taiwan was very good (I enjoyed watching her play) and shes definitely no less skillful than Xie. But Xie has a big advantage because she is taller.

oh yeah, the taiwanese girl is 19 yr old cheng shao chieh. world jr champ 2004 i think.

[twdc08]

oh yeah, the taiwanese girl is 19 yr old cheng shao chieh. world jr champ 2004 i think.

is it Lydia Cheah 170++cm???WMC just 165cm....
if Lydia CLY is about 170cm....mayb she`s the tallest female badminton player in malaysia...is it right???

[**KZ**]

is it Lydia Cheah 170++cm???WMC just 165cm....
if Lydia CLY is about 170cm....mayb she`s the tallest female badminton player in malaysia...is it right???


i also heard she is quite tall...hope she can make an impact on the world scene soon.

[ksooi]

LETS JUST HOPE SO. I AM QUITE CONFUSED IF U R MALAYSIAN,OR SINGAPOREAN BECAUSE I WANT TO ASK ALL OF MALAYSIAN FAN WHETHER U AGREE IF OUR WOMEN TEAM HAVE IMPORT PLAYER FROM CHINA TO MAKE OUR TEAM MORE COMPETITIVE AS U CAN SEE LIKE PI HONG YAN (FRANCE) AND MANY OTHER.:confused:


Excuse me...whether i am malaysian or not makes no difference whether malaysia needs to import ladies players from anywhere in the world....i don't really understand your question? does it make it competitive in the badminton world for someone from another country to represent malaysia or is it competitive for malaysian badminton if we import someone from lets say from china???..well fyi, i don't think malaysia will import any players to represent MALAYSIA but we will definitely import coaches from other country to improve the standard in malaysia....after all, we are all proud of our made in malaysia players

[weeyet]

Well, it's vey simple:
BECAUSE BAM IS NOT CONCERN ABOUT LADIES BADMINTON

Cheah Soon Kit had voiced this several times, our ladies need more internationl exposure. Although the condition had improved a bit, but still not satisfying

[weeyet]

LETS JUST HOPE SO. I AM QUITE CONFUSED IF U R MALAYSIAN,OR SINGAPOREAN BECAUSE I WANT TO ASK ALL OF MALAYSIAN FAN WHETHER U AGREE IF OUR WOMEN TEAM HAVE IMPORT PLAYER FROM CHINA TO MAKE OUR TEAM MORE COMPETITIVE AS U CAN SEE LIKE PI HONG YAN (FRANCE) AND MANY OTHER.:confused:

A big NO!!! Malaysia can have import players in any other sports except BADMINTON.

I still don't see any Malaysians feel proud from heart when Yuan Yufang (athlete) won the 1998 Commonwealth gold medal.

What about Me Lingjing (for pingpong)?

[kienkeatlover]

A big NO!!! Malaysia can have import players in any other sports except BADMINTON.

I still don't see any Malaysians feel proud from heart when Yuan Yufang (athlete) won the 1998 Commonwealth gold medal.

What about Me Lingjing (for pingpong)?

THIS HAS BEEN A HOT TOPIC HERE WHEN WC HAD FINISHED. ONE OF THE REPORTER ASKED WHETHER SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT WE IMPORT OTHER FOREIGN PLAYER. I QUICKLY SAID NO, BUT TO THINK DEEP ABOUT IT..I DOUBT. MAYBE WE SHOULD? BUT ITS 'BAM' MATTERS AND I JUST CAN SAY..JUST WAIT AND SEE. THINK POSITIVE.:rolleyes:

[fishnet wen*yi]

is it Lydia Cheah 170++cm???WMC just 165cm....
if Lydia CLY is about 170cm....mayb she`s the tallest female badminton player in malaysia...is it right???

172 cm :p so far she tallest kua..

[fishnet wen*yi]

A big NO!!! Malaysia can have import players in any other sports except BADMINTON.

I still don't see any Malaysians feel proud from heart when Yuan Yufang (athlete) won the 1998 Commonwealth gold medal.

What about Me Lingjing (for pingpong)?

malaysia takes serious pride when it comes to badminton. and nowadays, our jr girls r really coming up. y, they even reched the finals of the Asian Junior Championship by defeating Korea!

And i agree abt the yuan yufang comment... i guess we r just too proud to take in outside players. :p malaysia boleh mah..

[weeyet]

malaysia takes serious pride when it comes to badminton. and nowadays, our jr girls r really coming up. y, they even reched the finals of the Asian Junior Championship by defeating Korea!

And i agree abt the yuan yufang comment... i guess we r just too proud to take in outside players. :p malaysia boleh mah..

Actually, I feel that badminton is the only sports that unite Malaysian people. It is a sign of unity for Malaysian people. You will see every Malaysian-Chinese cheering behind Hafiz Hashim or Roslin or Rashid Sidek when playing against any China's player. And all Malay here supporting Wong Choong Hann when playing with Taufik Hidayat. I will be the first to oppose the suggestion to import badminton player (whether male or female)!!!

[weeyet]

THIS HAS BEEN A HOT TOPIC HERE WHEN WC HAD FINISHED. ONE OF THE REPORTER ASKED WHETHER SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT WE IMPORT OTHER FOREIGN PLAYER. I QUICKLY SAID NO, BUT TO THINK DEEP ABOUT IT..I DOUBT. MAYBE WE SHOULD? BUT ITS 'BAM' MATTERS AND I JUST CAN SAY..JUST WAIT AND SEE. THINK POSITIVE.:rolleyes:

Maybe Malaysia will get more encouraging results in international scene by importing players, but which would you feel more proud: Mia Audina won a Olympic gold medal for Malaysia in Beijing or Wong Mew Choo won a bronze medal of World Championship for Malaysia in Spain??

Haha, I will certainly prefer the latter. :D

[gemini12]

is it Lydia Cheah 170++cm???WMC just 165cm....
if Lydia CLY is about 170cm....mayb she`s the tallest female badminton player in malaysia...is it right???

Lydia is 174 or 175cm. I asked her during MSSM in Perlis this year.She has not been playing much tournament lately. Havent heard anything about her. She is not choosen for the SEA Games.

[fishnet wen*yi]

this pic is of wong mew choo and julia wong quite sum time ago... i hav a pic of lydia too but in another thread... junior players thread i think... :D

[verve_pipe]

that's not w.mew choo...

its how chiou hwee(sp...)

[alloh]

Why Malaysia cannot produce good women players?

It's simple.

In Malaysia, Malay is the majority race (66%), Chinese (23%), Indian (9%) and the rest (2%).
Malay all are muslim, and in Malaysia muslim girls cannot wear short pants/shirt at anytime. So how are they going to play in sports? Can you wear long pants, long gown & scraf playing badminton? :D
How are you going to expect If just depends on the 23% of chinese and the others race?

[blckknght]

There was a thread earlier about the women badminton players from Iran, and how they have to be fully covered while playing badminton. It's too bad Muslim women aren't encouraged to play sports... i think that's why there's such a big skill gap between the men and women players in Indonesia and Malaysia.
G

[event]

It's simple.

In Malaysia, Malay is the majority race (66%), Chinese (23%), Indian (9%) and the rest (2%).
Malay all are muslim, and in Malaysia muslim girls cannot wear short pants/shirt at anytime. So how are they going to play in sports? Can you wear long pants, long gown & scraf playing badminton?A good system can still make the difference. Let's see. If that limitation is inflexible, that still leaves 34% of Malaysia's total population (estimated at 24 million) the female members of which are not necessarily religiously or culturally bound to remain clothed so modestly as to prevent a career in professional sport. 34% of 24 million is still over 8 million. The women's team of Denmark - a country with a total population of 5 million - remains competitive with every nation but China. Denmark is definitely the exception to the rule, but so is Malaysia. The next smallest badminton power, by population, is Korea with twice Malaysia's population. Despite having twice as many men to choose champions from, Korea is never a hands-down favourite over Malaysia in men's competitions. Nor is Indonesia despite having 8 times as many men. The challenge in remaining competitive may be greater when it comes to the relatively even smaller talent pool for Malaysian women, but it is not insurmountable. That is why so many other people posting to this thread have looked at the reasons for hope for the future of the Malaysian women's team and at the variables that can and should change in order for the women to succeed. I'm sure it will take money and effort and will on the part of Malaysia's badminton community.

[fishnet wen*yi]

that's not w.mew choo...

its how chiou hwee(sp...)

really? haha.. no wonder she looks so diff :confused: the star newspaper captioned her as wong mew choo... then again, they mix up a lot of photos b4.

[Loh]

Why Malaysia cannot produce good women players?

It's simple.

In Malaysia, Malay is the majority race (66%), Chinese (23%), Indian (9%) and the rest (2%).
Malay all are muslim, and in Malaysia muslim girls cannot wear short pants/shirt at anytime. So how are they going to play in sports? Can you wear long pants, long gown & scraf playing badminton? :D
How are you going to expect If just depends on the 23% of chinese and the others race?

I think some Muslim families in Malaysia are less conservative. In some sports such as bowling, the most celebrated women bowler is Shalin, a Malay sportswoman who's met with great success at home and abroad.

And I might also add that in predominantly Muslim Indonesia, the girls are not doing too badly in international badminton although relative to their male counterpart's performance, they are miles apart. ;)

But I guess it has also to do with the general picture that fewer women participate in sports than men worldwide. Women have a more limited 'active' sporting career in the sense that they have to think of starting a family earlier and having to raise children.

[event]

I think some Muslim families in Malaysia are less conservative. In some sports such as bowling, the most celebrated women bowler is Shalin, a Malay sportswoman who's met with great success at home and abroad.

And I might also add that in predominantly Muslim Indonesia, the girls are not doing too badly in international badminton although relative to their male counterpart's performance, they are miles apart.

But I guess it has also to do with the general picture that fewer women participate in sports than men worldwide. Women have a more limited 'active' sporting career in the sense that they have to think of starting a family earlier and having to raise children.Bowling is a game, not a sport. If we're talking over-protective parents keeping their daughters from a life of competition and the public eye, that's one thing, but when the activity doesn't involve wearing shorts or anything else that would violate a strict dress code, that isn't the same as badminton. But maybe you're right about the existence of less conservative families. Was the Sidek sister who was on the national team Muslim?

As for Indonesia, it's a huge country and something like 20% of the country isn't Muslim so even if that influence was as strong as Alloh suggests, you're still looking at a talent pool in Indonesia of 40 million (20 million women). That's almost as many non-Muslim girls as Uber Cup runner-up Korea has. Many of the women that I see representing Indonesia seem to be Christian or otherwise non-Muslim: Susi Susanti, Lilyana. Ratnasari and Yulianti has Catholic-sounding names. And none of this proves that there is an actual exclusion. Finding a true champion is so random at the best of times. And so many kids are excluded from the talent pool by reason of geography or economics or preferences for other sports or other activities.

Loh makes a good point, too, that this particular reason is just a slightly more visible one among the numerous obstacles to women's participation in sport. Look at the difference in prize money at some competitions or look at how long it took for women's professional sports leagues to take off in a huge market like the U.S. I remember a marathon in Korea here one year where the prize money for first place was US$70,000 for the top man and US$5000 for the top woman. As justification for these types of prize money decisions one often hears that women don't draw as many spectators or that they don't beat as many competitors. These have a chicken-or-egg ring to them because you can reason that you only draw more competitors by offering more prize money. These rationalizations are vaguely similar to decisions described here by organizations like BAM not to bank on women competitors.

[Loh]

[QUOTE=event] Bowling is a game, not a sport.

Was the Sidek sister who was on the national team Muslim?
[QUOTE]

A very interesting definition you have brought up on bowling as a game and NOT a sport. I remember I once tried to differentiate between these two words and found difficulty trying to compartmentalize all the sporting or athletic activities into either one or the other.

But most would agree for example that 'swimming' is a sport, so are 'shooting', 'gymnastics', 'diving', 'dancing', 'sailing', and 'athletics'. I agree with you that bowling seems more appropriately defined as a game, though.

Then also, why are badminton, tennis, table-tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, water-polo, baseball, netball, golf, chess known as games. Is it for historical reasons?

But what exactly is the true meaning of sport and game? Though both are somewhat related, yet they are not really the same. How do we differentiate the two? So could you shed some light?

As defined by my Concise Oxford Dictionary:

Sport:

1. An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Game:

1. An activity engaged in for amusement.
2. A form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.


As for whether Sidek's sister is a Muslim, I would think so as a child from Muslim parents is a Muslim by birth. I think the religion also requires a non-Muslim married to a Muslim to be converted to a Muslim. Maybe someone can enlighten better.

[event]

A very interesting definition you have brought up on bowling as a game and NOT a sport. I remember I once tried to differentiate between these two words and found difficulty trying to compartmentalize all the sporting or athletic activities into either one or the other. Then also, why are badminton, tennis, table-tennis, basketball, soccer, hockey, water-polo, baseball, netball, golf, chess known as games. Is it for historical reasons?

But what exactly is the true meaning of sport and game? Though both are somewhat related, yet they are not really the same. How do we differentiate the two? So could you shed some light?.So you noticed my little pot-shot, did you? I wasn't sure anyone would. I didn't actually produce a definition to justify my rejection of bowling's sport status but, as a matter of fact, I do have my own facetious definition. I like to say that it's only a sport if the sweating is caused only by the weather or your clothes. In other words, pool, golf, bowling, darts, archery, curling and shooting are definitely out. Baseball only achieves sport status for a few players at select moments that are few and far between. The sweating a golfer does is the same as I do when I walk to the store to buy juice and that's not a sport. If you stood around in polyester pants and leather shoes watching one tall guy scratch himself and spit tobacco for 3 hours on a summer's afternoon, you'd sweat just as much as the average baseball player does. In other words, I'm being rather nit-picking about the definition of "physical exertion" referenced in the definitions you quoted. In other words, I'm just messing around and you're better off with those dictionary definitions.

As for game, the idea of keeping score makes that a category of which part of the activities involved with many sports are a subset. Hence the need for terms like "game, set,..." in our sister sport of tennis. Some sports, like badminton, deal with games while others, like cycling or diving, do not.

As for Zamaliah Sidek, I thought she might qualify as an exception to Alloh's rule but was unwilling to jump to conclusions about her religion. Although I admit the conclusion might have been pretty obvious, there are people who change their beliefs and I wasn't about to make assumptions about someone I know nothing about.

[alanSS]

So you noticed my little pot-shot, did you? I wasn't sure anyone would. I didn't actually produce a definition to justify my rejection of bowling's sport status but, as a matter of fact, I do have my own facetious definition. I like to say that it's only a sport if the sweating is caused only by the weather or your clothes. In other words, pool, golf, bowling, darts, archery, curling and shooting are definitely out. Baseball only achieves sport status for a few players at select moments that are few and far between. The sweating a golfer does is the same as I do when I walk to the store to buy juice and that's not a sport. If you stood around in polyester pants and leather shoes watching one tall guy scratch himself and spit tobacco for 3 hours on a summer's afternoon, you'd sweat just as much as the average baseball player does. In other words, I'm being rather nit-picking about the definition of "physical exertion" referenced in the definitions you quoted. In other words, I'm just messing around and you're better off with those dictionary definitions.

As for game, the idea of keeping score makes that a category of which part of the activities involved with many sports are a subset. Hence the need for terms like "game, set,..." in our sister sport of tennis. Some sports, like badminton, deal with games while others, like cycling or diving, do not.

As for Zamaliah Sidek, I thought she might qualify as an exception to Alloh's rule but was unwilling to jump to conclusions about her religion. Although I admit the conclusion might have been pretty obvious, there are people who change their beliefs and I wasn't about to make assumptions about someone I know nothing about.

according to islam law.. zamaliah sidek may burn in hell because she expose her aurat!!!

[seven]

according to islam law.. zamaliah sidek may burn in hell because she expose her aurat!!!

alanSS could you stop saying so stupid things? you really want to get banned??? :confused:

[kwun]

alanSS could you stop saying so stupid things? you really want to get banned??? :confused:

banned. got tired of deleting his immature posts. :mad:

[fishnet wen*yi]

Why Malaysia cannot produce good women players?

It's simple.

In Malaysia, Malay is the majority race (66%), Chinese (23%), Indian (9%) and the rest (2%).
Malay all are muslim, and in Malaysia muslim girls cannot wear short pants/shirt at anytime. So how are they going to play in sports? Can you wear long pants, long gown & scraf playing badminton? :D
How are you going to expect If just depends on the 23% of chinese and the others race?

that's not very fair... i know a few malay girls who can play really well. and who says they can't wear shorts anyways? i've seen malay girls in shorts and miniskirts b4...

norsyahliza baharum is one of the malay players i noe who can play well and does not wear long pants/gowns/scarf while playing... in fact, there are a few malay players currently in bjss as well.