Prescretch string Vs Normal string

[FAST!]

I heard alot of ppl suggest to prescretch string before stringing a racquet? What is the real benefit for that?

To my understanding, prescretch string will make the string thinner and it will affect the durability. Am I right? Or it is a purpose to let the string more easy to enter to the common grommets??:confused:

Is string (in general) very sentsitive to weather condition? For example, string will be easier to broken in winter time compare to Summer time. Is it correct?

If so, can we still use the prescretch string theory in the winter time?

Sorry, I must asking too much now.:p

Thanks for all your valuable input.:)

[DinkAlot]

For the Pre-Stretch Experts: please post all your different methods of prestretching string. Thanks.

[FAST!]

For the Pre-Stretch Experts: please post all your different methods of prestretching string. Thanks.

S4MadMan,

Do you pre-stretch the string before stringing the racquet??

[DinkAlot]

S4MadMan,

Do you pre-stretch the string before stringing the racquet??

Never, I use string that doesn't see any benefit (or very little) from pre-stretching. I use BG-80 exclusively on my own rackets and sometimes BG-85 for friends. BG-65 probably needs a bit of pre-stretching but no one ever requests it.

[Neil Nicholls]

I heard alot of ppl suggest to prescretch string before stringing a racquet? What is the real benefit for that?
...
Sorry, I must asking too much now.:p
you see that button with "Search" on it
click on that and type "Prestretch OR pre-stretch"

[silentheart]

Here is what I think about pre streching.

After unpacking a single pack string. Fix one end of the string to an unmovable object (table, wall etc.) mount the other end of string to a tensioner (ie your stringing machine) Tension the string at the tension you are going to use to string the racquet for a 30 sec to 1 min.

Of Course you must have a very big room if you want to tension a 10M string. What I usually do is to wrap the string halfway around a door handle across the room. then I mount both end of the string on the machine and pull at 30lb of tension for about 30 sec. Another way is to pre-strech the 2 strings after you cut them by same method.

I do not believe pre streching will make your string thinner to make any difference because the string will go back to the same gauge after you release the tension. However, the string do not coil during stringing and less likely to form kinks after pre streching. I do not think pre streching will prolong the durability of the string. I do believe (an tried many time) that playability is longer and string holds same tension longer by pre-streching.

If you have a electric constant pull or drop weight machine, pre- streching is not as important to get a good tension. However, it does get the coil out of the string.

[DinkAlot]

I do believe (an tried many time) that playability is longer and string holds same tension longer by pre-streching...However, it does get the coil out of the string.

Silent Heart: good points, especially getting the coils out. I'm going to start pre-stretching just for this. Thanks. :D

[Quasimodo]

Personally, I see two benefits in prestretching: working out coil memory out the string and taking most of the slack out of it. The former is especially beneficial when working with individual 10m packets. It's so much nicer to work with nice straight strings rather than coiled ones.

The latter is beneficial when working with stretchy strings (e.g., Hi-Qua B-696, BG-65) and crank/lock-out machines at high tension settings. Because the string keeps stretching, it'd drop the overall stringbed stiffness minutes after the job's done. It's not so much of a problem when using constant-pull machines (i.e., dropweight or electronic with a constant-pull feature) because the machine would compensate for the stretch. (Well, electronic ones would, the stringer'd have to re-tension when using a dropweight.) It's not always convenient to do so when using a crank.

There are ways to compensate for the string stretch on a crank (e.g., tension twice, tension 10%--20% higher, etc.); but, I always believe in giving my customers what they ask for. If they ask for 28lbs., I'm going to give them as close to 28lbs. as possible everytime, not 31 or 32.

Anyhow, to pre-stretch the string, I just clamp both ends together using a starting clamp, loop it around a door knob and lean back on it until I feel the spongy, stretchy feel is no longer. Anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute.

FWIW, HTH.

[DinkAlot]

Anyhow, to pre-stretch the string, I just clamp both ends together using a starting clamp, loop it around a door knob and lean back on it until I feel the spongy, stretchy feel is no longer. Anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute.

30 to 60 seconds is a small price to pay for the added benefits. Thanks, I'll try this. :D

[FAST!]

you see that button with "Search" on it
click on that and type "Prestretch OR pre-stretch"

Neil,

Thanks for your advice. I will do that next time.:D

[FAST!]

Here is what I think about pre streching.

After unpacking a single pack string. Fix one end of the string to an unmovable object (table, wall etc.) mount the other end of string to a tensioner (ie your stringing machine) Tension the string at the tension you are going to use to string the racquet for a 30 sec to 1 min.

Of Course you must have a very big room if you want to tension a 10M string. What I usually do is to wrap the string halfway around a door handle across the room. then I mount both end of the string on the machine and pull at 30lb of tension for about 30 sec. Another way is to pre-strech the 2 strings after you cut them by same method.

I do not believe pre streching will make your string thinner to make any difference because the string will go back to the same gauge after you release the tension. However, the string do not coil during stringing and less likely to form kinks after pre streching. I do not think pre streching will prolong the durability of the string. I do believe (an tried many time) that playability is longer and string holds same tension longer by pre-streching.

If you have a electric constant pull or drop weight machine, pre- streching is not as important to get a good tension. However, it does get the coil out of the string.

Great info. Thanks alot.

[FAST!]

Personally, I see two benefits in prestretching: working out coil memory out the string and taking most of the slack out of it. The former is especially beneficial when working with individual 10m packets. It's so much nicer to work with nice straight strings rather than coiled ones.

The latter is beneficial when working with stretchy strings (e.g., Hi-Qua B-696, BG-65) and crank/lock-out machines at high tension settings. Because the string keeps stretching, it'd drop the overall stringbed stiffness minutes after the job's done. It's not so much of a problem when using constant-pull machines (i.e., dropweight or electronic with a constant-pull feature) because the machine would compensate for the stretch. (Well, electronic ones would, the stringer'd have to re-tension when using a dropweight.) It's not always convenient to do so when using a crank.

There are ways to compensate for the string stretch on a crank (e.g., tension twice, tension 10%--20% higher, etc.); but, I always believe in giving my customers what they ask for. If they ask for 28lbs., I'm going to give them as close to 28lbs. as possible everytime, not 31 or 32.

Anyhow, to pre-stretch the string, I just clamp both ends together using a starting clamp, loop it around a door knob and lean back on it until I feel the spongy, stretchy feel is no longer. Anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute.

FWIW, HTH.

Thanks for the info. :)

[Quasimodo]

30 to 60 seconds is a small price to pay for the added benefits. Thanks, I'll try this. :D

Depending on how strong your pectoral muscles are, you can even prestretch the string as you measure them using the armspan method. That's how I used to work out most of the coil memory before I start using a door knob. It doesn't take out the slack---I'm a weakling :)---but, it's enough to straighten out the string.

P.S.: I do "measure" the string even if I'm using an individual packet. Reading some tips on another stringing forum, someone mentioned that for speed and efficiency purposes it's pointless to pull strings you're not going to use. So, from experience, I cut about an arm and a shoulder length off of a 10m set. That's enough to complete a racquet.

[LazyBuddy]

P.S.: I do "measure" the string even if I'm using an individual packet. Reading some tips on another stringing forum, someone mentioned that for speed and efficiency purposes it's pointless to pull strings you're not going to use. So, from experience, I cut about an arm and a shoulder length off of a 10m set. That's enough to complete a racquet.

Don't really agree.

If you don't pre-strung the racket, and using low tension with 2 pieces (4 knots) method, cut such a major piece out of the pack will only end up in trouble. Mostly, you will run out of the extra string tails, which is necessary to tension the last piece of string, as well as tighting the knots.

[Quasimodo]

Don't really agree.

If you don't pre-strung the racket, and using low tension with 2 pieces (4 knots) method, cut such a major piece out of the pack will only end up in trouble. Mostly, you will run out of the extra string tails, which is necessary to tension the last piece of string, as well as tighting the knots.

I guess I've short arms. :)

If I cut an arm and a little shoulder (i.e., just past my armpit) length piece, and string 2-piece at a low tension (<=18lbs), I still have more than enough for tie-offs. Even accounting for snipping bits here and there to make points. My current measurements are: 3 armspans for mains; 2 armspans + 1 arm and 2 shoulders for crosses.

There's another reason why I cut a piece off of a 10m set. I find that the distance from the pantry doorknob and my backyard door is not comfortably sufficient to prestretch a full string length, especially the stretchy ones. I'd have to pull using only my arms to do it instead of just holding on to it and leaning back. So, basically, I either have to cut a short piece or sell my house and buy a bigger one. I thought the first option is a little more economical. :D

[Neil Nicholls]

There's another reason why I cut a piece off of a 10m set. I find that the distance from the pantry doorknob and my backyard door is not comfortably sufficient to prestretch a full string length, especially the stretchy ones. I'd have to pull using only my arms to do it instead of just holding on to it and leaning back. So, basically, I either have to cut a short piece or sell my house and buy a bigger one. I thought the first option is a little more economical. :D
Duh...
dont pull it from the end of the string
pull it from where you would have cut it
it doesn't matter so much if the ends are not prestretched because the ends would be the excess string anyway.
Then you still have the safety of having the full length of string

Prestretching small lengths at a time, particularly using muscle strength, will not give a consistent stretch throughout the length of the string.

[taneepak]

You would probably benefit from prestretching BG65, but don't do it on BG80 or BG85.

[DinkAlot]

You would probably benefit from prestretching BG65, but don't do it on BG80 or BG85.

Any reason why no on 80 and 85? What are the downsides?

[Quasimodo]

Duh...
dont pull it from the end of the string
pull it from where you would have cut it
it doesn't matter so much if the ends are not prestretched because the ends would be the excess string anyway.
Then you still have the safety of having the full length of string

Well, even after I cut it, I won't be using the ends because they'll be the "extra" bit that I use to tension the last main/cross. :)

I've wasted some cheap reel strings to get the measurement down. That last arm-length is just not worth pulling through for me.


Prestretching small lengths at a time, particularly using muscle strength, will not give a consistent stretch throughout the length of the string.

I agree. That's why I mentioned that it doesn't really work out the slack, more just to work out the coil memory. And that's why I started using the doorknob way. :)

[DinkAlot]

I agree. That's why I mentioned that it doesn't really work out the slack, more just to work out the coil memory. And that's why I started using the doorknob way. :)

My office has a 50'+ hallway so I'm all set, too. :D

[taneepak]

Any reason why no on 80 and 85? What are the downsides?

BG80 and BG85 are a different breed of strings. All other Yonex strings have lots of tension creep, i.e. they lose tension very quickly. BG80 and BG85 have almost zero tension creep. If you pre-stretch BG80 or BG85 too much and if you string them at very high tension you will get less power than just tensioning them at the same very high tension but without pre-stretching.

[DinkAlot]

BG80 and BG85 are a different breed of strings. All other Yonex strings have lots of tension creep, i.e. they lose tension very quickly. BG80 and BG85 have almost zero tension creep. If you pre-stretch BG80 or BG85 too much and if you string them at very high tension you will get less power than just tensioning them at the same very high tension but without pre-stretching.

I assume this is because of the vectran. What about pre-stretching at say 1-5lbs. just to work out the coil memory?

[taneepak]

I assume this is because of the vectran. What about pre-stretching at say 1-5lbs. just to work out the coil memory?

You can try but don't go to the extent of BG65.

[silentheart]

BG80 and BG85 are a different breed of strings. All other Yonex strings have lots of tension creep, i.e. they lose tension very quickly. BG80 and BG85 have almost zero tension creep. If you pre-stretch BG80 or BG85 too much and if you string them at very high tension you will get less power than just tensioning them at the same very high tension but without pre-stretching.

I have to humbly diagree with you theory. I can not understand why IF BG85 has "almost zero tension creep" it will produce less power at the same high tension. IF BG85 has no tension creep, it should perform the exactly the same with or without pre-streching. Yet, you claim the string perform worse when you pre-strech at high tension. If that is the case, HIGH tension will damage string during stringing. And yet, you are the biggest proponent of high tension even for biginner. So you are damaging a BG85 string by string a racquet @ very high tension. You are contradicting yourself here.
I pre-strech BG85 to workout the coil memory. For my drop weight machine, a pre-streched bg85, I only wait for 10~15 sec before I take the string off the tensioner. If I do not pre-strech a BG85, I wait fo 20~30 sec before I take the string off the tensioner. On a constant pull electric machine, pre-streching is good because no coil memory when I weave ahead. I do not see any evidece of of pre-streching a BG85 will damage the string.

[DinkAlot]

"Things that make you go, 'Hmmmmmmmm...'" :p

[Pete LSD]

Do I hear a ding?

[DinkAlot]

Do I hear a ding?

Ding? OK, Ding! Ding Ding! :p

Errrr...what am I dinging about?

[taneepak]

I have to humbly diagree with you theory. I can not understand why IF BG85 has "almost zero tension creep" it will produce less power at the same high tension. IF BG85 has no tension creep, it should perform the exactly the same with or without pre-streching. Yet, you claim the string perform worse when you pre-strech at high tension. If that is the case, HIGH tension will damage string during stringing. And yet, you are the biggest proponent of high tension even for biginner. So you are damaging a BG85 string by string a racquet @ very high tension. You are contradicting yourself here.
I pre-strech BG85 to workout the coil memory. For my drop weight machine, a pre-streched bg85, I only wait for 10~15 sec before I take the string off the tensioner. If I do not pre-strech a BG85, I wait fo 20~30 sec before I take the string off the tensioner. On a constant pull electric machine, pre-streching is good because no coil memory when I weave ahead. I do not see any evidece of of pre-streching a BG85 will damage the string.

I think you are not following me. Perhaps, for a start, you can have a look at the specific guidline about suggested BG80 and BG85 tensions vis-a-vis the standard Yonex BG65 string, that is printed on the string packet. It says that the vectran BG80 and BG85 strings should be tensioned at 10% lower tension than the tension you would normally use on BG65. It did not say why this should be so. I happen to know why-don't ask me how I know-and the reason is because of the almost zero tension creep of the vectarn string. It is on a comparative basis I am referring to. If your optimal tension with a non-vectran string is 10mins pre-stretch plus 30lbs on BG66, you would get comparable performance, AOTBE, with BG85 with 10mins pre-stretch plus 27lbs, not 30lbs.

[DinkAlot]

I happen to know why-don't ask me how I know-and the reason is because of the almost zero tension creep of the vectarn string.

Huh? Don't ask? Didn't you just tell us how? :p :D

[taneepak]

Maybe, if I put it in another way, it would be clearer. Lets say you string a 10m long BG65 or BG66 at your optimal 30lbs and play for it for a week. You do the same with BG85 at the same tension and subject it to the same one week of play. You then untie the 3 strings, assuming you can do this, and lay the 3 strings along side each other. The BG66 and BG65 will be longer than BG85, the reason due to differences in the creep property of the strings. As you are used to the optimal BG65 or BG66 strings at these tensions, despite their greater creep, playing with BG85 would surely be different, and therefore comparartively less optimal vs your reference BG65 and BG66 strings. That is unless you make allowances for its better creep property.

[DinkAlot]

That is unless you make allowances for its better creep property.

OK, that makes sense, good example. I use BG-80 exclusively so I guess I don't need to worry about much creeping. That's a good thing. :D

[cooler]

BG80 and BG85 are a different breed of strings. All other Yonex strings have lots of tension creep, i.e. they lose tension very quickly. BG80 and BG85 have almost zero tension creep. If you pre-stretch BG80 or BG85 too much and if you string them at very high tension you will get less power than just tensioning them at the same very high tension but without pre-stretching.

errr, bg70pro retain tension much better than vectran based bg80 and 85

[DinkAlot]

errr, bg70pro retain tension much better than vectran based bg80 and 85

Really? Hmmmm, that's interesting, why is that? What makes BG70Pro retain tension? Thanks.

[silentheart]

I think you are not following me. Perhaps, for a start, you can have a look at the specific guidline about suggested BG80 and BG85 tensions vis-a-vis the standard Yonex BG65 string, that is printed on the string packet. It says that the vectran BG80 and BG85 strings should be tensioned at 10% lower tension than the tension you would normally use on BG65. It did not say why this should be so. I happen to know why-don't ask me how I know-and the reason is because of the almost zero tension creep of the vectarn string. It is on a comparative basis I am referring to. If your optimal tension with a non-vectran string is 10mins pre-stretch plus 30lbs on BG66, you would get comparable performance, AOTBE, with BG85 with 10mins pre-stretch plus 27lbs, not 30lbs.

I am sorry if I did not state my confussion or your inconsistency clearly. You said in your prior post that pre-streching a BG80 or BG85 @ high tension will decrease performance. Yet, I am confused because there is no physic or engineering reason I can think of. Also, for example, what is the difference between pre-streching a BG85 @ 34lb then releasing the string then string it @34lb again vs string it @34lb straight? Only reason the BG85 will have lower performance is because the string is damaged when you prestrech @ 34lb. If that is the case, you are also damaging the same BG85 when you string it @ 34lb without pre-streching.
Also from your previous post, you advacted string racquet @ high tension for all your friend and customer. Are you a dis-service to the user by string the racquet @ high tension and damaging them @ same time?
Please clarify. Thanks.

[cooler]

Really? Hmmmm, that's interesting, why is that? What makes BG70Pro retain tension? Thanks.

i'll get techy guru taneepak take-a-crack on this one :D

[cooler]

I am sorry if I did not state my confussion or your inconsistency clearly. You said in your prior post that pre-streching a BG80 or BG85 @ high tension will decrease performance. Yet, I am confused because there is no physic or engineering reason I can think of. Also, for example, what is the difference between pre-streching a BG85 @ 34lb then releasing the string then string it @34lb again vs string it @34lb straight? Only reason the BG85 will have lower performance is because the string is damaged when you prestrech @ 34lb. If that is the case, you are also damaging the same BG85 when you string it @ 34lb without pre-streching.
Also from your previous post, you advacted string racquet @ high tension for all your friend and customer. Are you a dis-service to the user by string the racquet @ high tension and damaging them @ same time?
Please clarify. Thanks.

i didnt see inconsistencies in your previous post ;) . According to taneepak, prestreching bg80/85 is bad but high tension 80/85/66 is good. Taneepak say yonex recommended 1 or 2 lbs less when switching to 85 and 80 strings but taneepak give 28 lbs to beginners. Would this end up like 30lbs equivalent performance and behavior for non vectran string 66/65 etc?

[Pete LSD]

Interesting, we have a contradiction from the advocate of high tension and BG-80/85.


i didnt see inconsistencies in your previous post ;) . According to taneepak, prestreching bg80/85 is bad but high tension 80/85/66 is good. Taneepak say yonex recommended 1 or 2 lbs less when switching to 85 and 80 strings but taneepak give 28 lbs to beginners. Would this end up like 30lbs equivalent performance and behavior for non vectran string 66/65 etc?

[DinkAlot]

Interesting, we have a contradiction from the advocate of high tension and BG-80/85.

I'm getting a headache. :p

I guess I'll just stick with what's worked with me. :)

[taneepak]

I am sorry if I did not state my confussion or your inconsistency clearly. You said in your prior post that pre-streching a BG80 or BG85 @ high tension will decrease performance. Yet, I am confused because there is no physic or engineering reason I can think of. Also, for example, what is the difference between pre-streching a BG85 @ 34lb then releasing the string then string it @34lb again vs string it @34lb straight? Only reason the BG85 will have lower performance is because the string is damaged when you prestrech @ 34lb. If that is the case, you are also damaging the same BG85 when you string it @ 34lb without pre-streching.
Also from your previous post, you advacted string racquet @ high tension for all your friend and customer. Are you a dis-service to the user by string the racquet @ high tension and damaging them @ same time?
Please clarify. Thanks.

If you re-stretch BG85 at 30lbs it will still revert back to its original length when you release it. The string is still within its elastic range. If you do the same with BG65 and then release it, it will not return back to its original length and will be slightly longer because it has a higher creep. Therefore to maintain the same playing tension as the BG85 at 30lbs you have to string BG65 at 33lbs. BG 85 or BG80 will remain more elastic than non-vectran strings at any tension up to breaking point, which is to a large extent dependant on the gauge. I am not saying you cannot tension BG80 or BG85 at high tension or that you cannot pre-stretch it. The advantages of pre-stretching are minimal for vectran strings because there is very little creep. You pre-stretch strings to prevent tension creep so that your racquet strings do not lose too much tension over the strings' life. But it makes sense only with strings that suffer from high creep.
If you can handle BG80 at 34lbs then why not? But if you replace it with a non-vectran string of the same gauge, then you must up it to 37.5lbs.
Tension loss in a strung racquet comes from both the creep property of the strings and the way you string your racquet and tie the knots.

[silentheart]

If you re-stretch BG85 at 30lbs it will still revert back to its original length when you release it. The string is still within its elastic range. If you do the same with BG65 and then release it, it will not return back to its original length and will be slightly longer because it has a higher creep. Therefore to maintain the same playing tension as the BG85 at 30lbs you have to string BG65 at 33lbs. BG 85 or BG80 will remain more elastic than non-vectran strings at any tension up to breaking point, which is to a large extent dependant on the gauge. I am not saying you cannot tension BG80 or BG85 at high tension or that you cannot pre-stretch it. The advantages of pre-stretching are minimal for vectran strings because there is very little creep. You pre-stretch strings to prevent tension creep so that your racquet strings do not lose too much tension over the strings' life. But it makes sense only with strings that suffer from high creep.
If you can handle BG80 at 34lbs then why not? But if you replace it with a non-vectran string of the same gauge, then you must up it to 37.5lbs.
Tension loss in a strung racquet comes from both the creep property of the strings and the way you string your racquet and tie the knots.

I am quoting you here from your prior post
"If you pre-stretch BG80 or BG85 too much and if you string them at very high tension you will get less power than just tensioning them at the same very high tension but without pre-stretching."
Any yet you state "If you re-stretch BG85 at 30lbs it will still revert back to its original length when you release it. The string is still within its elastic range." I am just confused by your 2 statements here. Also please clarfy your definistion of pre-streching BG85 at "high tension too much". Are you saying pre-streching for example 34lb for 30 sec, 1min, 5 min or 10 min? Or pre streching a BG85 @ 40lb while you are going to string @ 20lb. I do not believe any stringer with right mind will pre strech a string more than 10 min. I am just wonding if you experimented to see what is the tension for a BG85 to lose elastic property. Because I believe the BG85 will break and that is when the string lost the elastic property.
What I am having touble with is your theory on vectran string. (ie BG80 and BG85) I do not have any problem with any of your comparisons or benefits of pre-streching a BG65 or BG66 because those are known facts.
All my previous posts in this thread have been aroung BG85 because that is what you are not making sense.

Sorry, I am posting in the middle of the night again...

[taneepak]

As I said earlier you pre-stretch a string to get rid off or at least to substantially reduce the string's inherent creep. To reach this stage the string will be nearing the plastic stage from the very elastic stage but before the break point stage. Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

[cooler]

As I said earlier you pre-stretch a string to get rid off or at least to substantially reduce the string's inherent creep. To reach this stage the string will be nearing the plastic stage from the very elastic stage but before the break point stage. Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

wont high tension achieve the same 'out of the plastic' range? :p

[DinkAlot]

Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

What's the "plastic stage"?

[silentheart]

As I said earlier you pre-stretch a string to get rid off or at least to substantially reduce the string's inherent creep. To reach this stage the string will be nearing the plastic stage from the very elastic stage but before the break point stage. Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

You still have not answer the question of what do you mean by pre-streching @ very high tension. How high and how long. I never disagree that pre-strech a BG85 will get a lot of the tension creep out. My practice is to pre-strech a BG85 to get the coil memory out even there is not a lot of benefit on tension creep. However, I am just have question about what your posted (I bolded your statements) because they conflict with each other without your further clarification on "pre-strech at very high tension" for BG85. Since youself do not pre-strech BG85, how do you make the observation of pre-strech BG85 @ very high tension will hurt performance of BG85. If what you are suggesting here is just a conjecture without experiments or observations, then I will be more than happy to accept this is yur conjecture only.

[cooler]

What's the "plastic stage"?

it's "someone's" ;) term for elasticity

[silentheart]

What's the "plastic stage"?

Is this the point where a string lost it's elastic property? If that is the case, I believe that is also the breaking point of a string. (ie string snaps)

[silentheart]

As I said earlier you pre-stretch a string to get rid off or at least to substantially reduce the string's inherent creep. To reach this stage the string will be nearing the plastic stage from the very elastic stage but before the break point stage. Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

May I ask what tension will a BG85 reach this "very elastic stage"? is it 60lb or 65lb? Maybe 70lb?

[DinkAlot]

it's "someone's" ;) term for elasticity

Huh? Why not just use "elasticity"? :p

[DinkAlot]

Is this the point where a string lost it's elastic property? If that is the case, I believe that is also the breaking point of a string. (ie string snaps)

That makes sense, why not just say "breaking point"? :D

[DinkAlot]

May I ask what tension will a BG85 reach this "very elastic stage"? is it 60lb or 65lb? Maybe 70lb?

Naw, if you pre-stretch BG-85 it can take 82.4lbs. easy. ;) :p :D

[Pete LSD]

About four months ago, I did an experiment to see under how much tension BG-80 will break. It turns out the string can hold up to 40 something pounds and snaps at 50 something pounds. Butttt . . . I forgot the exact number. FYI, my machine is constant pull.

[Quasimodo]

About four months ago, I did an experiment to see under how much tension BG-80 will break. It turns out the string can hold up to 40 something pounds and snaps at 50 something pounds. Butttt . . . I forgot the exact number. FYI, my machine is constant pull.

Just curious about two things: did you keep repulling the same piece of string until it broke or did you pull different pieces of BG-80 until you found a tension setting that broke a fresh never-before-tensioned piece?

Another thing, do you remember where it broke? Next to either clamps? Right in the middle?

Thanks.

[silentheart]

About four months ago, I did an experiment to see under how much tension BG-80 will break. It turns out the string can hold up to 40 something pounds and snaps at 50 something pounds. Butttt . . . I forgot the exact number. FYI, my machine is constant pull.

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the great info. I am wondering if 40lb is "pre-streching at very high tension"?;)

[Pete LSD]

Thanks for the question. It was the same piece of string. It was actually a left over from a string job. It broke near the tensioning jaw.


Just curious about two things: did you keep repulling the same piece of string until it broke or did you pull different pieces of BG-80 until you found a tension setting that broke a fresh never-before-tensioned piece?

Another thing, do you remember where it broke? Next to either clamps? Right in the middle?

Thanks.

[Pete LSD]

Hehe, maybe we sure ask our BF resident string expert Eepak himself :) .


Hi Pete,

Thanks for the great info. I am wondering if 40lb is "pre-streching at very high tension"?;)

[taneepak]

A string is still elastic if it returns to its original shape/length. When it doesn't it has gone a little into the plastic stage. Some strings have a very wide plastic to break point stage, some less.
Stretching the strings just enough to unwind the so-called coil memory is not the same as pre-stretching them to get rid of the strings' inherent creep. Also strings, but not vectran strings, that are pre-stretched to get rid of creep may also exhibit further creep later on, under certain conditions. This is because most strings other than vectran absorbe moisture as well as being affected by temperature changes.

[Neil Nicholls]

What's the "plastic stage"?
*cough*
elastic and plastic are two different things

elastic means you can stretch something, and when you stop pulling, it will return to it's original shape/length (give or take a bit)

there is a limit to how much you can stretch something though. Pull it too far and it loses it's elastic properties, i.e. it will not return to it's original shape/length. This is called the "plastic" phase.


or if you google you can find better explanations
e.g.
"When a material is linearly elastic, its deformation,
or strain, will be directly proportional to the applied force and it will
return to its original shape when the force is removed. A plastic material,
on the other hand, will permanently deform without breaking (think of taffy
or perhaps the stringiness of melted mozzarella cheese on a pizza)."

[DinkAlot]

Thanks for the data Pete. :D

[DinkAlot]

Hehe, maybe we sure ask our BF resident string expert Eepak himself :) .

Resident stringing expert? I thought Eepak was world renowned. :D :D :D

[DinkAlot]

Some strings have a very wide plastic to break point stage, some less.

Eepak: can you list each string you have used/tested and whether it has a wide or narrow "plastic stage"? Thanks.

[DinkAlot]

*cough*
elastic and plastic are two different things

Thanks Neil! It all makes sense now. :)

[cooler]

As I said earlier you pre-stretch a string to get rid off or at least to substantially reduce the string's inherent creep. To reach this stage the string will be nearing the plastic stage from the very elastic stage but before the break point stage. Pre-stretching BG80 and BG85 is not necessary, and if at very high tension may risk getting the string near the plastic stage, which will affect its performance.

ok, then why putting bg 85/80 into plastic range is bad and prestretching bg65 and other non vectran string into plastic range to 'eliminate creep' is good?

By subjecting a string into plastic range, u will be reducing expected life of that string. By going into plastic range, u will lose repulsive property of that string, a property that helps beginners more so than to a pro. By having vectran, a string isnt immune to plasticity.

[Neil Nicholls]

About four months ago, I did an experiment to see under how much tension BG-80 will break. It turns out the string can hold up to 40 something pounds and snaps at 50 something pounds. Butttt . . . I forgot the exact number. FYI, my machine is constant pull.
just tested some BG80 myself, straight from the reel
OK at 35lb
broke every time I attempted 40lb (3 attempts)
using my drop-weight and supporting the weight so that the tension increased slowly

P.S.
protect your eyes and hands if you try this yourself

[DinkAlot]

just tested some BG80 myself, straight from the reel
OK at 35lb
broke every time I attempted 40lb (3 attempts)
using my drop-weight and supporting the weight so that the tension increased slowly

P.S.
protect your eyes and hands if you try this yourself

Hmmmm, I'm sure interested in testing this now...maybe I will...I will be back in about 10 minutes... :p

[DinkAlot]

OK, back...just tested BG-80 with some interesting results. I found that the distance of where you tension makes a difference.

Summary:
-Point A: 33lbs. = OK, 35lbs. = break (at the knot)
-Point B: 38lbs. = OK, 40lbs. = break (at the knot)

A picture's worth a thousand words so here:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/897/bg80tolerance0pu.jpg

[Pete LSD]

Wow, everyone has a different BG-80 brreaking tension!!!

Neil, where did the BG-80 break? The leftover piece that I used for the experiment broke near the tension jaw. Like what you described, the string snapped violently. I used the non diamond-dusted fixed clamp to hold the string.

[Pete LSD]

On a side note, I wonder why Eagnas and others don't make a version with two fixed swivel clamps. And I am curious if a tennishead electronic tensioner unit can fit into the ST-200 or Easy-3.


OK, back...just tested BG-80 with some interesting results. I found that the distance of where you tension makes a difference.

Summary:
-Point A: 33lbs. = OK, 35lbs. = break (at the knot)
-Point B: 38lbs. = OK, 40lbs. = break (at the knot)

A picture's worth a thousand words so here:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/897/bg80tolerance0pu.jpg

[DinkAlot]

Wow, everyone has a different BG-80 brreaking tension!!!

Neil, where did the BG-80 break? The leftover piece that I used for the experiment broke near the tension jaw. Like what you described, the string snapped violently. I used the non diamond-dusted fixed clamp to hold the string.

Well, I calibrated my stringing machine each time I did the test. Remember, stringing machines and calibrators can be off.

[DinkAlot]

On a side note, I wonder why Eagnas and others don't make a version with two fixed swivel clamps. And I am curious if a tennishead electronic tensioner unit can fit into the ST-200 or Easy-3.

I don't know, but the Easy-3 has one fixed one. That's what I should have bought. :p

[Neil Nicholls]

Wow, everyone has a different BG-80 brreaking tension!!!
Neil, where did the BG-80 break? The leftover piece that I used for the experiment broke near the tension jaw.
Mine broke pretty much in the middle of the piece being tensioned, in every case. Nowhere near the fixed points or the tensioner.

I also did one test each on BG63 and BBG68-Ti

BG63 held at 40 and broke at 45
BG68-Ti held at 30 and broke at 35

I checked my tensions with my scales before I started.
I have nothing to check my scales against though

[DinkAlot]

I checked my tensions with my scales before I started.
I have nothing to check my scales against though

Do you have a digital scale? If so, put 20.0 lbs. weight on it and then take that known weight and attach it to your calibrator to see if it's on. Mine's off by about 0.5 lbs.

[Pete LSD]

I know but Eagnas should design the Easy-3 with the option of having two fix swivel clamps.


I don't know, but the Easy-3 has one fixed one. That's what I should have bought. :p

[DinkAlot]

I know but Eagnas should design the Easy-3 with the option of having two fix swivel clamps.

I agree but with these new fancy fly clamps, who needs the fixed swivels other than to start? :p

[Pete LSD]

Nothing beats clamps that are fixed to the turntable base :) . Just my opinion ;) .


I agree but with these new fancy fly clamps, who needs the fixed swivels other than to start? :p

[DinkAlot]

Nothing beats clamps that are fixed to the turntable base :) . Just my opinion ;) .

For holding the string tension, yes. But for pure speed, nothing beats the fly clamps. :D

[Quasimodo]

On a side note, I wonder why Eagnas and others don't make a version with two fixed swivel clamps. And I am curious if a tennishead electronic tensioner unit can fit into the ST-200 or Easy-3.

:confused: There are plenty of tabletop and stand-up machines with 2 swivel clamps that can fit badminton racquets. I guess I don't follow?

The Wise 2086 fits practically all crank machines, but the main problem is that it can only go as low as 20lbs at the low-end. I asked Mr. Herb Wise if it's possible to somehow reprogram or recalibrate the tension range from 20--86 to 14--80. He basically said no. :( However, he did mention that he'll be releasing a full stand-up electronic machine model at the beginning of next year that can handle all racquetsport racquets including badminton. He also said that it'll retail for $2500. :crying: Though, compared to $8000 for a Yonex ES5Pro it's probably quite a bargain.

[Pete LSD]

You are correct but it's nice to have a six-point suspension badminton stringing machine with electronic tensioner and two swivel clamps. The mountings of the ST-200 and Easy-3 seem to fit badminton racquets very well. Just my opinion.

I think Mr. Wise should build a dedicated badminton stringing machine using the ST-200 and Easy-3 frames. Imrovements over those models include dual swivel spring-loaded clamps, electronic tensioner, head & throat clamp downs and better supports along the shared-grommet areas (as mentioned by taneepak and others, there are four of them). It would nice to keep the price below USD 1,000 :D .

The head and throat posts should be modified as a part of the clamp down system. Instead of having one post at the head and throat, maybe two to three posts at each end provide better even better support.


:confused: There are plenty of tabletop and stand-up machines with 2 swivel clamps that can fit badminton racquets. I guess I don't follow?

The Wise 2086 fits practically all crank machines, but the main problem is that it can only go as low as 20lbs at the low-end. I asked Mr. Herb Wise if it's possible to somehow reprogram or recalibrate the tension range from 20--86 to 14--80. He basically said no. :( However, he did mention that he'll be releasing a full stand-up electronic machine model at the beginning of next year that can handle all racquetsport racquets including badminton. He also said that it'll retail for $2500. :crying: Though, compared to $8000 for a Yonex ES5Pro it's probably quite a bargain.

[DinkAlot]

The mountings of the ST-200 and Easy-3 seem to fit badminton racquets very well. Just my opinion.

Yes, nearly perfectly. :D

[Pete LSD]

Well, I prefer holding tension better than speed ;) .


For holding the string tension, yes. But for pure speed, nothing beats the fly clamps. :D

[Quasimodo]

...
I think Mr. Wise should build a dedicated badminton stringing machine...

Well, I think that I deserve to win the $340M Powerball jackpot. But, neither's gonna happen. :D

[DinkAlot]

Well, I prefer holding tension better than speed ;) .

It's all relative because when I stretch the string then remove the fly clamp, it all equalizes...more or less. :D

[taneepak]

I am a strong advocate of players owning their own badmintan-only stringing machines. However, this becomes more difficult if prices start going above US$400. If you price stringing machines on a weight and comparable features basis badminton stringing machines should be very cheap.

[DinkAlot]

I am a strong advocate of players owning their own badmintan-only stringing machines. However, this becomes more difficult if prices start going above US$400. If you price stringing machines on a weight and comparable features basis badminton stringing machines should be very cheap.

Why are you a strong advocate of a Badminton only stringing machine? I went with a Badminton only machine mainly because that's all I was interested in stringing.

[Pete LSD]

Hey, you get it there! Maybe there should be something like a X Prize for designing the best badminton stringing machine. :D :D :D


Well, I think that I deserve to win the $340M Powerball jackpot. But, neither's gonna happen. :D

[taneepak]

Why are you a strong advocate of a Badminton only stringing machine? I went with a Badminton only machine mainly because that's all I was interested in stringing.

Because I think you should leave tennis and squash to tennis and squash players. This also makes the machine smaller, lighter, and not being burdened with carrying and paying for someone else features and weight.

[jcl49]

Because I think you should leave tennis and squash to tennis and squash players. This also makes the machine smaller, lighter, and not being burdened with carrying and paying for someone else features and weight.
I totally agree with taneepak, as storage may be a big issue for people with bulky stringing machines. However, it may be a good thing that machines string for other racquet sports.

There may be a need to sell off the machine due to permanent injury, upgrade to electronic unit, or loss of interest in the sport (heaven forbid). Because badminton is not as big as tennis or squash in many countries, badminton-only machines would have a smaller second-hand market.

[silentheart]

I am a strong advocate of players owning their own badmintan-only stringing machines. However, this becomes more difficult if prices start going above US$400. If you price stringing machines on a weight and comparable features basis badminton stringing machines should be very cheap.

Can you tell me which shop in HK uses badminton only electric machine beside your shop? I think the stringer's knowlege with his/her own maching plus the experiences and knowlege of string properties is more important than a "badminton" only machine.

[Quasimodo]

I totally agree with taneepak, as storage may be a big issue for people with bulky stringing machines. However, it may be a good thing that machines string for other racquet sports.

There may be a need to sell off the machine due to permanent injury, upgrade to electronic unit, or loss of interest in the sport (heaven forbid). Because badminton is not as big as tennis or squash in many countries, badminton-only machines would have a smaller second-hand market.

Strictly a personal preference, as far as stringing machines are concerned, I like mine as solid and heavy with as much steel as they can cram into it as possible. :) I wouldn't like it if they use plastic mounting posts, clamps, tensioning arm, support legs, etc., especially if the only reason is, "Well, it's only for badminton."

[DinkAlot]

Because I think you should leave tennis and squash to tennis and squash players. This also makes the machine smaller, lighter, and not being burdened with carrying and paying for someone else features and weight.

Agree, some more of the reasons why I went with a Badminton only stringing machine too. :)