TheStar Dec10

KUALA LUMPUR: Next year's Thomas-Uber Cup Finals in Japan will use a 21-point rally scoring format. Hong Kong celebrity Sally Yeh is now the world badminton's ambassador. And India will host the World Championships for the first time.

These were among some interesting decisions made during the International Badminton Federation (IBF) council meeting at the Istana Hotel here yesterday.

In an effort to popularise the sport and be television-friendly, the council decided that the new 21-point best-of-three games will be experimented with from Feb 1 in all IBF tournaments that offers world ranking points.

After the Thomas-Uber Cup Finals in Japan from April 28-May 7, the council will decide if the scoring format is successful and should be adopted for all their tournaments, including the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing.

IBF event committee chairman Paisan Rangsikitpho said: “We have decided to try the rally point scoring system from Feb 1 for both the men and the women. This is in line with our efforts to improve the presentation of the game.

“A final decision will be made on whether to use scoring format on a permanent basis at the next council meeting in Japan.”

“Under these formats, a point is awarded for a rally won and whoever scores the point holds service. For the doubles, the winner of a rally holds service but there will be no second server.

“There will be only breaks at the 11th point for all the events. Apart from that break, players will have to stay inside the court whenever play is stopped. Time will not be wasted and duration of a match can be shortened,” he said.

In an effort to bring in the crowd, the IBF have also decided to inject entertainment into the sport.

Sally has been named the new IBF ambassador.

“We also want our sport to entertain the crowd. Sally will be the right person to promote this game. She is loved by the public and has a great following,” said council member Eraj Wijesinghe.

Meanwhile, India have been named as the host for the 2009 World Championships, the first time the country will host the meet.

Spain is hosting the world meet next year while Malaysia will host it in 2007.

Jakarta will host the 2008 Thomas-Uber Cup Final while the Sudirman Cup will be held in Guangzhou.

Finally some progressive news

3x21 isnt perfect but worth a try. It's alot better than 5x7 or 5x9 varieties.

Wow, BC member sally Y. is the IBF ambassador. Go Sally!!! :)

Things r finally looking up from here.

its going to be a fast scoring match:)

its going to be a fast scoring match:)
yes and no.
some team would take less risk and rallies on average can be longer than current average. U do not want to have bad serves :D (or modify it like tennis and get 2 chances to serve per player)

we would miss those games wherein the scores are tied for quite some time, you know like 14-13 and service had been going back and forth and nobody's budging:)

Hi,
Anyonw know the location or sites where there is a write-up on the new scoring system? Like rules,regulations, and so forth. :confused: Look like everything is new to me...........:p No clear cut hints:o If the game going to be fast, then smashers and attackers or defenders or rallying players have more advantages:confused: Acutally the beauty of this game is to test yr endurance and skills............not just speed or attack only:rolleyes:
Matrix:D

we would miss those games wherein the scores are tied for quite some time, you know like 14-13 and service had been going back and forth and nobody's budging:)

i agree :crying: personally, i still prefer the 15 x 3 format... though it is worth a try... though it is easy to 'throw away' points this way.... services must be more steady... mistakes must be cut down... things like that la... easy to lose but not so taxing to win also depending on which side u r on :p

I got this from our newspaper "berita harian". I think it summarizes what the article posted by ants.

1. Using the rally system similar to volley ball and pingpong (table tennis)
2. A 60-second rest will be given when the 11th point is reached
3. There will not be any rest before that to towel down or even drink water
4. If the point is tied up at 20-20, the 2 more points is needed
5. If the point reaches 29-29, the player who gets the 30th point will be the winner.
6. There will only be one service for the men and women's doubles each time.

Does the women singles have to play to 21 too?

Does the women singles have to play to 21 too?

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=318239#post318239

TheStar Dec10
KUALA LUMPUR: Next year's Thomas-Uber Cup Finals in Japan will use a 21-point rally scoring format. <snip>


Hello BCers,
Methinks this is a great opportunity to provide a good feedback to IBF Council et al who might be interested. Here is a chance to try the scoring system - most of the posters are players themselves, correct?

Collectively, we can objectively conduct this exercise. It is good to have opinions, this shows passion and thought. Let us see if this passion can now be channelled. Now, go in the Zen mode. Forget everything that went before, this includes your opinions and related bias.

Consciously, keep track of the process of scoring while playing, inlcuding all the "difficulties" you and your court-mates encountered. This will form the "data-set." Write the facts, leaving your opinions out just for this time, to the forum. If people are willing to play along so to speak, I could provide a "how-to." However, I think, just like open-source, we can evolve the how-to.

You reckon, if you have difficulty following the guidelines of the 21-point scoring format at this time, can you imagine how other players (Indons excepted, it was their recommendations in the first place), and the poor sop in the high chair might encounter?

I got this from our newspaper "berita harian". I think it summarizes what the article posted by ants.

1. Using the rally system similar to volley ball and pingpong (table tennis)
2. A 60-second rest will be given when the 11th point is reached
3. There will not be any rest before that to towel down or even drink water
4. If the point is tied up at 20-20, the 2 more points is needed
5. If the point reaches 29-29, the player who gets the 30th point will be the winner.
6. There will only be one service for the men and women's doubles each time.

With regard to 4 above my reading of the 'new' scoring system tells me that a player wins if he scores 2 consecutive points. Therefore a player trailing 23-24 would win if he wins the next 2 points i.e. 25-24.

I am not so sure about 3 though. How practical can this really be?

Mr.F

my feelings:

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=318239#post318239

With regard to 4 above my reading of the 'new' scoring system tells me that a player wins if he scores 2 consecutive points. Therefore a player trailing 23-24 would win if he wins the next 2 points i.e. 25-24.

I always thought---or, assumed, rather---that winning by 2 points is necessary about a deuce (e.g., 22-20, 25-23, etc.). The only exception being if the score is tied at 29-all. But, after re-reading the article at WorldBadminton.net, I think you may be right. Which is a bit strange to me. In almost any score-determined sports, the thing to do after a deuce is always "win by 2." Volleyball, ping-pong, squash, etc.

I am not so sure about 3 though. How practical can this really be?

I've the same thought. On one hand, it appears that IBF wants to preserve the career longevity of top athletes by making matches shorter. OTOH, by making them play so continuously, especially with the very aggressive and physically demanding style that they all do, IMHO they'll have to train even harder perhaps putting them at an even higher risk of injuries. :confused:

I always thought---or, assumed, rather---that winning by 2 points is necessary about a deuce (e.g., 22-20, 25-23, etc.). The only exception being if the score is tied at 29-all. But, after re-reading the article at WorldBadminton.net, I think you may be right. Which is a bit strange to me. In almost any score-determined sports, the thing to do after a deuce is always "win by 2." Volleyball, ping-pong, squash, etc.



I've the same thought. On one hand, it appears that IBF wants to preserve the career longevity of top athletes by making matches shorter. OTOH, by making them play so continuously, especially with the very aggressive and physically demanding style that they all do, IMHO they'll have to train even harder perhaps putting them at an even higher risk of injuries. :confused:

Before reading and re-reading the IBF output I presumed, silly of me obviously(!), that you had to win by 2 clear points - just as in other sports. Could it be that there has been a typo?!

Mr. F

I got this from our newspaper "berita harian". I think it summarizes what the article posted by ants.

1. Using the rally system similar to volley ball and pingpong (table tennis)
2. A 60-second rest will be given when the 11th point is reached
3. There will not be any rest before that to towel down or even drink water
4. If the point is tied up at 20-20, the 2 more points is needed
5. If the point reaches 29-29, the player who gets the 30th point will be the winner.
6. There will only be one service for the men and women's doubles each time.
Just a further observation regarding the above. Point 5 this time:

The Service Judge will have the ultimate power if and when a game / match reaches the score of 29 all. Given that you can now score without even hitting a shot it will be possible for the Service Judge to be the final decider in a match. All he has to do is call "Fault" at 29 all and the Receiver is the Winner! Just imagine the scene ............!

This in itself is a major shift and I would imagine a scary prospect for all concerned.

Mr. Fault

Just a further observation regarding the above. Point 5 this time:
The Service Judge will have the ultimate power if and when a game / match reaches the score of 29 all. Given that you can now score without even hitting a shot it will be possible for the Service Judge to be the final decider in a match. All he has to do is call "Fault" at 29 all and the Receiver is the Winner! Just imagine the scene ............!

Very vivid picture you conjure up. Methinks you are getting carried away a wee bit more than necessary. It looks like the Service Judge's (or the Umpire's) role has not changed from when the scoreline was 14 matchpoint-all in the 3rd set. If there is a "Fault" to be called on the server by the SJ, then so be it. The same would be the case when the Umpire calls on the receiver I should think.

All [good] umpires in any sport are there to ensure the game is played within the rules set and the spirit of the game. They apply them, not make them. It is a pity that you are "Mr. Fault"ing them for the things they do. If any official is in the game arena to exercise ultimate power or any power at all, then may their shoes stick to the pitch and their pencils to the scoresheets, and you may quote me on this.

The difference is now that a match can be won on the opponent's service, including when a fault is called.

Until now, being faulted on your service only meant the score was stuck, not losing the match immediately!! :rolleyes:

I think this is Mr Fault's point and I agree with him on this one.

I am still confused, when do you get to serve under the new rules? Is it like ping pong where each player gets to serve 5 times each? Or do you alternate serving one time each?

I am still confused, when do you get to serve under the new rules? Is it like ping pong where each player gets to serve 5 times each? Or do you alternate serving one time each?

There have been many rules changes in table tennis over the last few years. The scoring system is now to 11 points from the old 21 points and each player serves only two times now instead of five. It has made table tennis more popular now.

Yeah but what about serving under the new badminton rules. Does it follow the new ping pong rules (ie each player serves twice each)? Must we sacrifice the game for better marketing of the game? In my opinion if people don't like badminton because of the scoring format then we shouldn't try so hard to get them to like the game at the expense of the game. The old sytsem has worked well and we had some great matches with it. If people dn't like the game then they can get stuffed! Sucking up to these people does badminton a disservice.

Yeah but what about serving under the new badminton rules. Does it follow the new ping pong rules (ie each player serves twice each)? Must we sacrifice the game for better marketing of the game? In my opinion if people don't like badminton because of the scoring format then we shouldn't try so hard to get them to like the game at the expense of the game. The old sytsem has worked well and we had some great matches with it. If people dn't like the game then they can get stuffed! Sucking up to these people does badminton a disservice.

They are using the new scoring system at the current world cup in China. After day 2 of the competition it has been reported that the overall consensus was very favourable, with one Japanese umpire saying that it has brought the game to a fast and exciting level. There are also other opinions but it appears they are in the minority.

One of the apsects of the game under the old rules is that the players must be extremely fit as endurance and stamina are important factors of the game and how a player plays the game is crucial to winning the match (ie discretion in preserving energy or to play all out from the beginning). The new rules make it possible for players with less stamina and endurance to win the game since every rally scores a point. Tennis lasts longer than badminton. The finals of men's tennis in a best of five sets match can last up to 5 hours. Tennis splits the finals events into 2 days because of the long duration of each event. The main focus of tennis is the singles matches and less emphasis on the doubles matches. This is the focus of the TV broadcasts unlike badminton which crams in all the five events of the final in one day and focuses on the all the events not just the singles' events. Shortening the duration of the matches is not the solution to promote the game. If they are serious about making the game more popular then they should concentrate on smart marketing not changing the game. As I said tennis has no problems with matches that last five hours why should badminton cut down the duration of the matches when the longest game of badminton doesn't even go past 2 hours. Another point is to increase the size of the prizemoney in badminton which is chickenfeed comapred to tennis or to the living standards of Western countries. If the prize money is considerable and decent by Western standards there will be more people in Western countries who are willing to invest the time and effort to play the game professioally and this will boost the games' following and fans as more and more people take up badminton increases the games' network. At the moment people would rather invest their time and energy in tennis because you can actually make a proper living playing tennis in the West due to the great amount of money involved offered in the tournaments. In tennis even if you don't win anything or don't get past the quarter finals stage you actually still earn some decent money and this makes the game profitable to players who have to pay for a lot of expenses to travel playing in tournaments.

I think there's no really problem if scoring is changed or not, but the competition should be more strengthen - like seeding formats - usually a top player easily breezes past QF and not having to face seeded players. Draw-up and group pairings and a round robin format should be looked into international and professional play.

In most badminton tourneys , the champ does not really the best player but the one that has the easiest draw!:)

One of the apsects of the game under the old rules is that the players must be extremely fit as endurance and stamina are important factors of the game and how a player plays the game is crucial to winning the match (ie discretion in preserving energy or to play all out from the beginning). The new rules make it possible for players with less stamina and endurance to win the game since every rally scores a point. Tennis lasts longer than badminton. The finals of men's tennis in a best of five sets match can last up to 5 hours. Tennis splits the finals events into 2 days because of the long duration of each event. The main focus of tennis is the singles matches and less emphasis on the doubles matches. This is the focus of the TV broadcasts unlike badminton which crams in all the five events of the final in one day and focuses on the all the events not just the singles' events. Shortening the duration of the matches is not the solution to promote the game. If they are serious about making the game more popular then they should concentrate on smart marketing not changing the game. As I said tennis has no problems with matches that last five hours why should badminton cut down the duration of the matches when the longest game of badminton doesn't even go past 2 hours. Another point is to increase the size of the prizemoney in badminton which is chickenfeed comapred to tennis or to the living standards of Western countries. If the prize money is considerable and decent by Western standards there will be more people in Western countries who are willing to invest the time and effort to play the game professioally and this will boost the games' following and fans as more and more people take up badminton increases the games' network. At the moment people would rather invest their time and energy in tennis because you can actually make a proper living playing tennis in the West due to the great amount of money involved offered in the tournaments. In tennis even if you don't win anything or don't get past the quarter finals stage you actually still earn some decent money and this makes the game profitable to players who have to pay for a lot of expenses to travel playing in tournaments.

They are using the new scoring system at the current world cup in China. After day 2 of the competition it has been reported that the overall consensus was very favourable, with one Japanese umpire saying that it has brought the game to a fast and exciting level. There are also other opinions but it appears they are in the minority.

Can you quote your sources? :confused:
I don't agree about a very favourable consensus, it's been more the opposite until now... :rolleyes:

Try www.worldbadminton.net

Try www.worldbadminton.net (http://www.worldbadminton.net)

We all saw the article on worldbadminton.net, for your information this is IBF's official website, so obviously they will say how great 21 points is and everything.

You will have an argument if you find an NON-BIASED source... :rolleyes:

We all saw the article on worldbadminton.net, for your information this is IBF's official website, so obviously they will say how great 21 points is and everything.

You will have an argument if you find an NON-BIASED source... :rolleyes:

You may distrust the IBF but I don't believe they will stoop this low by being dishonest. Have an open mind.

You may distrust the IBF but I don't believe they will stoop this low by being dishonest. Have an open mind.

Obviously they are biased, they aren't going to criticize their own invention! :rolleyes:
This has nothing to do with honesty.

Obviously they are biased, they aren't going to criticize their own invention! :rolleyes:
This has nothing to do with honesty.

On a slightly related note, methinks it is great to find out that the recommendations of IBF to say/write the final score is also causing quite a lot of blood running with our fellow racqueteers. From the initial returns, the IBF scoring method makes the most sense. Dont believe me, do you?

Well check out the voting and discussion at http://www.squashsite.co.uk/shorts_dec_2005.htm, scroll down at lower right corner.

I personally don't like the new 21-point scoring system... It's really not as fun!!! :crying: haiz... and besides, it makes the match shorter! which means that we won't be able to see our favourite players on court for as long as before... :( Even though the match may be at a faster speed and will be more agressive, the match will be more boring coz the players will focus more on attacking... ARGH!

I personally don't like the new 21-point scoring system... It's really not as fun!!! :crying: haiz... and besides, it makes the match shorter! which means that we won't be able to see our favourite players on court for as long as before... :( Even though the match may be at a faster speed and will be more agressive, the match will be more boring coz the players will focus more on attacking... ARGH!

I AGREE!!!! i mean, come on la... how often do we get to watch badminton on tv?!?! it's always football football football. and when we DO get to finally watch badminton, obviously we want to savour it! by cutting the matches short, i don't think we will enjoy as much.. i've always enjoyed watching those tight and gruelling matches which last up to 1 hr plus plus... by cutting them short, it just wont be as enjoyable for us badminton fans!!!!! :crying: i tried playing w/ the 21 pt system too... ended way too fast... and the doubles system is rather confusing :confused:

I personally don't like the new 21-point scoring system...and besides, it makes the match shorter! which means that we won't be able to see our favourite players on court for as long as before... :( Even though the match may be at a faster speed and will be more agressive, the match will be more boring coz the players will focus more on attacking... ARGH!a better idea would be to make it 5x21 or 3x30, 2 clear on both w/ no cap

a better idea would be to make it 5x21 or 3x30, 2 clear on both w/ no caphttp://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3950/is_200201/ai_n9077737#continue

3. SIDE-OUT SCORING VS. RALLY POINT SCORING Why did USA Volleyball change from the traditional side-out scoring system to rally point scoring? The advantage of rally point scoring is primarily that it makes the length of a match more predictable. Games end more quickly since a point is scored after every rally. However, the new system does not significantly change the difference between the teams' scores. The additional points scored in rally point scoring are alternately awarded to the two teams at service changes. After an even number of service changes the additional points balance, meaning that the margin between the two teams is the same as it would be if sideout scoring had been used.

another thought on the subject of rally scoring;

you can't just get a huge lead and expect to cruise. if you let up mentally you'll be in trouble. if you start off slow you'll have a better chance to fight your way back and win. which is why i think 3x30 works best.

I AGREE!!!! i mean, come on la... how often do we get to watch badminton on tv?!?! it's always football football football. and when we DO get to finally watch badminton, obviously we want to savour it! by cutting the matches short, i don't think we will enjoy as much.. i've always enjoyed watching those tight and gruelling matches which last up to 1 hr plus plus... by cutting them short, it just wont be as enjoyable for us badminton fans!!!!! :crying: i tried playing w/ the 21 pt system too... ended way too fast... and the doubles system is rather confusing :confused:
I know aye.. it sucks...
21point is stupid.. the one leading the most at start will usually be the winner...
The match is so predictable now... I dont find the excitement watching it anymore

another thought on the subject of rally scoring;

you can't just get a huge lead and expect to cruise. if you let up mentally you'll be in trouble. if you start off slow you'll have a better chance to fight your way back and win. which is why i think 3x30 works best.
I rather have 3x11 for MS/MD/MX & 3x9 for WS
than having rally point scoring

I know aye.. it sucks...
21point is stupid.. the one leading the most at start will usually be the winner...
The match is so predictable now... I dont find the excitement watching it anymore

it sucks period.... IBF is out of touch with Badminton Fans and Players.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3950/is_200201/ai_n9077737#continue

3. SIDE-OUT SCORING VS. RALLY POINT SCORING Why did USA Volleyball change from the traditional side-out scoring system to rally point scoring? The advantage of rally point scoring is primarily that it makes the length of a match more predictable. Games end more quickly since a point is scored after every rally. However, the new system does not significantly change the difference between the teams' scores. The additional points scored in rally point scoring are alternately awarded to the two teams at service changes. After an even number of service changes the additional points balance, meaning that the margin between the two teams is the same as it would be if sideout scoring had been used.
yeah, i thought about the problem before too:) tried to recalculate the result of some games using the new scoring system, in most cases the result won't change. technically , the scoring system won't change the result of most games. the problem we have here is the psychological influnce of the new scoring system to the players. it gives more pressure on the players, and changs their strategies sometimes. and, some how ,the result of the game is really predictable we one side is leading too much:o

i'll miss the feeling so tense see the tightly score :crying: :crying:

it sucks period.... IBF is out of touch with Badminton Fans and Players.

You are not alone fellas!

Hidayat, Taufik, is gathering his buddies to cause furore about the Point-A-Rally scoring! Here is a paragraph from what was reported in a newsdaily, Indian Express (http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=87784) :

"This will be Hidayat’s first tournament according to the new rally-scoring system which awards points after every rally and the game is decided at 21. He hardly seemed happy about it. ‘‘I don’t like the new system at all and so far as I am aware, none of the top players like it either. It’s too fast. I am going to take it up with the other players during the Thomas and Uber Cup finals in Japan and see what can be done,’’ he said. Recently, World No 6 Dane Peter Gade Christiansen had blasted the new scoring system as well."

So keep up your patience chaps, the PAR era might be over soon enough. Experiment over, results learned, mebbe by TUC Finals coupla months later.

Long Live the Rebellion! :)