I am curious to know if Yonex actually owns and operates their own badminton racquet manufacturing plants or factories. Modern racquet manufacturing is now very efficient and the upstream supply is being restructured for greater efficiency. Racquet manufacturing is now being separated into the fiber cutting/filament winding/customized pre-cut lengths for frame/shaft, and the new kid on the block, the Assemblers. This separation of 1st stage manufacturing and 2nd stage Assemblers will result in fewer but bigger upstream manufacturing entities and lower downstream assemblers, both catering for customers of all shades. The Assemblers can collect OEM orders from more customers, including names like La Fleche to Yonex to RSL, which are then sent to the manufacturers for competitive bidding. The Assemblers will still have to do the molding, baking, and finishing, but they now do this for everyone, including their old enemies. This spells doom for the integrated manufacturer. I hope Yonex doesn't get stuck in the old system.

yup, im also curious too, can anybody post some pictures of the plant, specially the assembly line:D or do they just give it to their sub-contractors?

According to the yellow pages, Yes, Yonex, Inc does have multiple factories in Japan and Taiwan. However, it doesn't specify what kind of factories they are.

my supplier told me that, there is only 4 o 5 badminton racquet factory in the world.. so some of the famous brand do share the same factory with lesser known brand.. ;)

I remember we discussed related topic in one of thread and the guy with similar idea of my myth as below was challenged by many persons....... :(

Here is the myth that I heard from the old guys from HK badminton industry.

Yonex has her own plant in Japan, with small scale for the frame and shaft manufacturing and normal scale for painting and assembling.

The first lot of Hi-Ended rackets will be totally 100% made in Japan, once confirm the production process is running smoothly, then she will send the mould(s) to sub-contactor in China (previous were Singapore and Taiwan). Shaft and frame manufacturing is performed by sub-contactor, once moulded parts are finished, then they will be shipped back to Japan for painting and assembling to claim the goods to be made in Japan.

Yonex must say no to the above statement (as per Yonex said no CN rackets existing), anyway a myth is a myth and nobody can proof it. :D

If there have been 3rd party factories doing OEM work for yonex, how come it's been a secret for so long? Look at Apple. Even though they try their best to keep the OEMs secret, most people know which OEM manufactures what for Apple (eg: Asus makes some apple notebooks).

if a Singapore factory was previously making racquets for Yonex but lost it's contract, to advertise for new business, surely it will advertise openly that it had previously done contract work for Yonex?

If there have been 3rd party factories doing OEM work for yonex, how come it's been a secret for so long? Look at Apple. Even though they try their best to keep the OEMs secret, most people know which OEM manufactures what for Apple (eg: Asus makes some apple notebooks).

if a Singapore factory was previously making racquets for Yonex but lost it's contract, to advertise for new business, surely it will advertise openly that it had previously done contract work for Yonex?

There are many big brand names will ask their sub-contractors to sign an agreement and not to display their products for promotion.

There are two examples in my lives:
1) Everybody know that Carlton, Dunlop, Babolat and Wilson are made in China, but you never be able to find these brand names in Canton Fair. (the largest trade show in Mainland China) But, I saw MMOA low end model in there.

2) My factory makes a logo badge for a Super car brand of Germany, but our client needs us to do two things!! 1) Sign an agreement and never show his product even in our showroom. 2) Stamp "made in Germany" at the back of the badge and my client will do the last process in order to cope with "made in Germany" requirement.

It is a quite common practice in manufacturing area.

I was told by a few players in my club that the same factory that makes Yonex rackets also makes Tactics racket. I have no idea if it is true. I have seen lots of Yonex clone/campatible rackets made by Tactics that matches colour and design of Yonex rackets perfectly.

If the intention for this discussion is to show, "100% made in JP = good" vs. "big portion made in xxxxxxx = bad", then it's totally pointless.

Many ppl have the wrong impression of, if a product is labeled as made in a "modern nation" (i.e. JP, US, GR, etc), then it's all good. If it's made in a "3rd world nation" (i.e. CH, IND, etc), then, the quality is not as good. The problem is, the key is the product performance and QA standard, not where the factory's location.

Put this way, a top of the line suit is made in CH, by a very reputable factory with high standard and QA. Even it's made in CH, the quality is still good. On the other hand, another suit is made in US, by a lowly and poor managed privately own fashion factory. Even it's made in US, I doubt the quality can be anywhere near the 1st one.

My point is, Yonex gain it's reputation, because it's Yonex standard (of course, marketing as well), not because where the factory or show room locates. ;)

Spot on LB!

I know of one example in Sweden when the only thing that changed was the ownership. The factory was the same and the workers too. But with the new owners the QA policy went south and suddenly they were accepting products which had been disposed before. IOW the error marging changed from x% to Y%. Why? Because they wanted more quantity but wouldn't hire more staff, so then they decided to have less strigent QA instead=lower quality. In the end it was the *workers!* who made complaints that they couldn't let this be because the factory would lose its credibility. This was before the products reached the end customers = ordinary consumers. So there was some kind of compromise made, more workers (but not enough) were hired and the QA became somewhat more stringent again.

Did the consumers notice the change, sure they did. As it happened the product was reviewed and didn't get as high marks as before.

/mats


Many ppl have the wrong impression of, if a product is labeled as made in a "modern nation" (i.e. JP, US, GR, etc), then it's all good. If it's made in a "3rd world nation" (i.e. CH, IND, etc), then, the quality is not as good. The problem is, the key is the product performance and QA standard, not where the factory's location.

To echo LB's point. Wilson's top of line racquets are also made in china. What Wilson did is just move the entire manufacture line to china. Yes, if you look up the 2005 catalog, the lowest end Yonex racquets are made in china and it is clearly stated on the catelog.
There are still manufacture lines for all the well known Japanese brands (ie. Seiko, Citizen, Nikon, SONY, Panasonic, Toyota/Lexus, etc.) And yes, I do own 1 SONY LCD TV that is made in Japan, 1 Panasonic HD TV that is also made in Japan and I pay dearly for them. However, you pay for the higher labor cost of "Made in Japan" items and MAY BE higher quality goods. Many of us had chance to shop in Japan knows that Japanese consummers get the first try of the latest and best tech. IMHO, just get the racquet that fit you best, don't worry where it is made.

I am curious to know if Yonex actually owns and operates their own badminton racquet manufacturing plants or factories. Modern racquet manufacturing is now very efficient and the upstream supply is being restructured for greater efficiency. Racquet manufacturing is now being separated into the fiber cutting/filament winding/customized pre-cut lengths for frame/shaft, and the new kid on the block, the Assemblers. This separation of 1st stage manufacturing and 2nd stage Assemblers will result in fewer but bigger upstream manufacturing entities and lower downstream assemblers, both catering for customers of all shades. The Assemblers can collect OEM orders from more customers, including names like La Fleche to Yonex to RSL, which are then sent to the manufacturers for competitive bidding. The Assemblers will still have to do the molding, baking, and finishing, but they now do this for everyone, including their old enemies. This spells doom for the integrated manufacturer. I hope Yonex doesn't get stuck in the old system.

Yes they do have their own badminton manufacturing plant and their own research and development lab as well.

my supplier told me that, there is only 4 o 5 badminton racquet factory in the world.. so some of the famous brand do share the same factory with lesser known brand.. ;)

Your supplier is wrong because if that is true, the everything will be made in Taiwan. (Just Taiwan alone, there are already more than 4+ factories)

As per LB's point, I agree that China can made a lot of good products, just depended on the QA level, such as Babolat rackets, Wilson rackets....... i-pod.

I don't know rest of the countries in Asia, but in Hong Kong, most people view China's products should be in lower price due to two aspects.
1) Lower Quality (In my view, just depended on the which industry and also QA level),
2) Delivery cost from China to Hong Kong is very low.

For the badminton stuff in Hong Kong, since Carlton is well known "made in china", so I am pretty sure that Hong Kong can get Carlton in lowest price before the agentship shifted to RHS. Another sample is Babolat, I visited the distributor of Babolat, owner mentioned that Babolat requested to distribute the top line of badminton racket at International price (At least HK$700 or above), but the racket is marked "made in china". He processed some researches and finally refused to import the high end Babolat badminton racket to HK.

For USA and Canada, since over 80% of products are imported from China, I think those people will adopt China's products are no problem. Asia occuplied major poportion of badminton market, so I also want to know the view of other Asia countries' concept on "made in china" product.

The high end Made in Japan raquets are made in YY's own factory.

The made in China raquets are made in factories that are although perhaps not owned exclusively by YY Japan make only YY raquets.

This is the only way they can keep the lid on new technologies by having proprietary models and raw materials used in Japanese manufactured models. It is much tougher to do this in Chinese factories and also the quality control, Yonex believes, is superior in Japan.

Shuttles are made in China but YY has it's own factory and sourcing.

The high end Made in Japan raquets are made in YY's own factory.

The made in China raquets are made in factories that are although perhaps not owned exclusively by YY Japan make only YY raquets.

This is the only way they can keep the lid on new technologies by having proprietary models and raw materials used in Japanese manufactured models. It is much tougher to do this in Chinese factories and also the quality control, Yonex believes, is superior in Japan.

Shuttles are made in China but YY has it's own factory and sourcing.

The technology credits in racquets are misdirected. Racquet manufacturing plants are low-tech facilities. The real people who bring in the technology into racquets do not even know how to make racquets. But they are industrial giants who certainly know how to make high tech materials that go into outer space, military, aircraft, a thousand and one industrial applications, and yes almost all sports and leisure activities, including racquets and strings, sailcloth, mountaineering ropes, ship hulls, motor racing, etc. Making racquets is like baking bread. At least you make your own dough in baking bread whereas in racquet manufacturing you buy the prepreg and sometimes even the unbaked frames and shafts. Now what is so high tech about this?

To echo LB's point. Wilson's top of line racquets are also made in china. What Wilson did is just move the entire manufacture line to china. Yes, if you look up the 2005 catalog, the lowest end Yonex racquets are made in china and it is clearly stated on the catelog.
There are still manufacture lines for all the well known Japanese brands (ie. Seiko, Citizen, Nikon, SONY, Panasonic, Toyota/Lexus, etc.) And yes, I do own 1 SONY LCD TV that is made in Japan, 1 Panasonic HD TV that is also made in Japan and I pay dearly for them. However, you pay for the higher labor cost of "Made in Japan" items and MAY BE higher quality goods. Many of us had chance to shop in Japan knows that Japanese consummers get the first try of the latest and best tech. IMHO, just get the racquet that fit you best, don't worry where it is made.

also some special or very hi end release, which are geared only for the Jap market.. I remember a special edition sony component system which had actualy gold contacts... very advance for its time, it was sometime in the 70's.

also some special or very hi end release, which are geared only for the Jap market.. I remember a special edition sony component system which had actualy gold contacts... very advance for its time, it was sometime in the 70's.

there are JP version of most products, even simple as CD's

also some special or very hi end release, which are geared only for the Jap market.. I remember a special edition sony component system which had actualy gold contacts... very advance for its time, it was sometime in the 70's.

This used to be my area of black magic in the 70's and early 80's. I used to, yes, modify and improve hi end hifi systems for the very rich who would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (US $) in their never ending quest for the ultimate system. Now my own son is on this silly quest and fruitless search, but I am not helping him. My area of expertise was to vastly improve one of the great turntables of the day, the 'Linn Sondek" turntable. BTW, the very hi end systems are, surprise, surprise, turntable-based. There is a reason why digital will never be a match for the turntable/records, but you won't get this from me.
Incidentally, neither Sony nor any of the big Japanese companies were ever serious hi fi high end contenders. They were considered extremely low fi by the standards of the very high. It would have been a travesty to use any Sony hifi component with the Linn Sondek. This is even more true today. But that is another story. :D

This used to be my area of black magic in the 70's and early 80's. I used to, yes, modify and improve hi end hifi systems for the very rich who would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (US $) in their never ending quest for the ultimate system. Now my own son is on this silly quest and fruitless search, but I am not helping him. My area of expertise was to vastly improve one of the great turntables of the day, the 'Linn Sondek" turntable. BTW, the very hi end systems are, surprise, surprise, turntable-based. There is a reason why digital will never be a match for the turntable/records, but you won't get this from me.
Incidentally, neither Sony nor any of the big Japanese companies were ever serious hi fi high end contenders. They were considered extremely low fi by the standards of the very high. It would have been a travesty to use any Sony hifi component with the Linn Sondek. This is even more true today. But that is another story. :D


OT: Linn Sondek.. hmm brings back memories.. my favorite cartridge needle would be from ortofon... AR speakers (all I could afford), was saving up for nakamichi but started working and never went back to the dreams set up..

yup sony isn't really hi fi.. but that release was for the Jap market who seemed at that time insanely obssesed with gold... remember gold plated cameras (name escapes me for the moment.. rolfex something..) but point was the Japs have some really high end (monetary or otherwise) releases just for their markets..

OT: Linn Sondek.. hmm brings back memories.. my favorite cartridge needle would be from ortofon... AR speakers (all I could afford), was saving up for nakamichi but started working and never went back to the dreams set up..

yup sony isn't really hi fi.. but that release was for the Jap market who seemed at that time insanely obssesed with gold... remember gold plated cameras (name escapes me for the moment.. rolfex something..) but point was the Japs have some really high end (monetary or otherwise) releases just for their markets..


I still have a pair of Quad electrostatic loudspeakers, Quad ESL-63, which I want to sell for a song. However, one of the two has a buzzing sound which I have not had it repaired, as I am not using them any more. For the sheer purity of the sound it can still beat a lot of today's top speakers. But they run on electricity and they are open-air, not box, speakers, so there is zero coloration. I used to connect them to my TV late at night, through my son's ransom price amplification system, and I thought a live ghost was talking to me-so natural was the human voice that it gave me a fright.

I still have a pair of Quad electrostatic loudspeakers, Quad ESL-63, which I want to sell for a song. However, one of the two has a buzzing sound which I have not had it repaired, as I am not using them any more. For the sheer purity of the sound it can still beat a lot of today's top speakers. But they run on electricity and they are open-air, not box, speakers, so there is zero coloration. I used to connect them to my TV late at night, through my son's ransom price amplification system, and I thought a live ghost was talking to me-so natural was the human voice that it gave me a fright.

Hi Taneepak, how is your view on Accuphase?? People always compare it with Mclintosh. I am still using "sound audio" (local brand) tube pre-amp with sherwood power-amp, as I am a new babie of Hi-Fi with limited budget and ear level. Quad and Linn are already a super brand for me. :p

I never listen to the Mclintosh. For Accuphase, I just comment is clear and sweet, then nothing special.........

Hi Taneepak, how is your view on Accuphase?? People always compare it with Mclintosh. I am still using "sound audio" (local brand) tube pre-amp with sherwood power-amp, as I am a new babie of Hi-Fi with limited budget and ear level. Quad and Linn are already a super brand for me. :p

I never listen to the Mclintosh. For Accuphase, I just comment is clear and sweet, then nothing special.........

These two names are okay but are not the real top brands. Tubes are very listenable and "musical" (this was the word we used in the old days), although they measure terrible on the graphs. But I have been out of touch with hifi for more than 13 years, and this surely qualifies me as being out of my depths now. If you want to buy very high end seconhand stuff, which my son sometimes trades in, I can check with him.
I used to have a good English inventor (of hifi) friend back then, and boy, was he a real nut. But behind and inside a few high end English amplifiers and speakers were his inventions, very tiny and very effective. I was his Hong Kong guinea pig testing ground and I got all his goodies for free.
But I have since lost interest in hifi.

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmm?" I wonder as well.

I didn't care about this until I noticed a few used coded AT800s had noticeably better finish than my TH ones. Go figure. :rolleyes: :confused:

Things that make you go, "Hmmmmmm?" I wonder as well.

I didn't care about this until I noticed a few used coded AT800s had noticeably better finish than my TH ones. Go figure. :rolleyes: :confused:

LoL.. i used to think my TH coded AT800's paint job wasn't as perfect as i expected
then again, i ran outside on the 26th saw some CD coded one in stores and boy, i'm happy with my TH's finishing.

LoL.. i used to think my TH coded AT800's paint job wasn't as perfect as i expected
then again, i ran outside on the 26th saw some CD coded one in stores and boy, i'm happy with my TH's finishing.

I should have been more clear, I was actually referring to the durability of the finish. My TH 800s had poor paint/finish durability while the US ones I've experience are durable, on par with the US coded MPs. So this has me wondering if US (and JP) coded rackets have a better finish than TH (SP, etc...)?

Come to think of it, my US MP99s were more durable as well...hmmmmm...:confused:

guys. let's not make this thread into a hifi or distribution code discussion.

Let's move the hi-fi and distribution code sections into the appropriate threads.

guys. let's not make this thread into a hifi or distribution code discussion.

guys. let's not make this thread into a hifi or distribution code discussion.

What's "hifi" and I thought distribution codes were directly connected to manufacturing (or at least partly).

The technology credits in racquets are misdirected. Racquet manufacturing plants are low-tech facilities. The real people who bring in the technology into racquets do not even know how to make racquets. But they are industrial giants who certainly know how to make high tech materials that go into outer space, military, aircraft, a thousand and one industrial applications, and yes almost all sports and leisure activities, including racquets and strings, sailcloth, mountaineering ropes, ship hulls, motor racing, etc. Making racquets is like baking bread. At least you make your own dough in baking bread whereas in racquet manufacturing you buy the prepreg and sometimes even the unbaked frames and shafts. Now what is so high tech about this?

They are not misleading at all. Yonex does not state that they invent the materials only use them. In this context you are correct but make it sound like they are passing themselves off as inventors. Yonex has said very many times they are keen watchers of NASA and sports like Formula 1 that use cutting edge materials then exploit the new technology in the raquets.
Yonex does design the frames and decides how to use the available raw materials. From the looks of the huge # of clones and counterfits they must convince a few people. Those raquets are using very inconsistent materials and decieving the consumer. Yonex doesn't do this.

Hope you are good at playing with your new pastry frame and pizza stick strings from your low tech manufacturers.

Uh oh, it's eggroll Vs. taneepak now :eek:!

The technology credits in racquets are misdirected. Racquet manufacturing plants are low-tech facilities. The real people who bring in the technology into racquets do not even know how to make racquets. But they are industrial giants who certainly know how to make high tech materials that go into outer space, military, aircraft, a thousand and one industrial applications, and yes almost all sports and leisure activities, including racquets and strings, sailcloth, mountaineering ropes, ship hulls, motor racing, etc. Making racquets is like baking bread. At least you make your own dough in baking bread whereas in racquet manufacturing you buy the prepreg and sometimes even the unbaked frames and shafts. Now what is so high tech about this?


taneepak, the graphite is indeed common to any buyers out there. However, if u should know better, the secret is in the secret sauce(the matrix resin), better cooking process and better consistency/Q&A

taneepak, the graphite is indeed common to any buyers out there. However, if u should know better, the secret is in the secret sauce(the matrix resin), better cooking process and better consistency/Q&A

Good points. 1 additional point. Stiffness is also determined by how the graphite is lined up too.

Good points. 1 additional point. Stiffness is also determined by how the graphite is lined up too.

and quantity used.
All clones and fakes i have tried are all flexy rackets.( i didnt say i have tried them all yet)

taneepak, the graphite is indeed common to any buyers out there. However, if u should know better, the secret is in the secret sauce(the matrix resin), better cooking process and better consistency/Q&A


I am now on to something new. Yes, a new racquet-still a prototype, but what a prototype!-which doesn't use any carbon graphite, resins, metals, alloys, etc. It is the first of its type. It has taken me one year but I have by now a working prototype that is the quintessence of power, control, velvety touch, speed and maneuverability. It will put your Yonex NS8000 in the shade.
You don't believe me, do you? :)

I am now on to something new. Yes, a new racquet-still a prototype, but what a prototype!-which doesn't use any carbon graphite, resins, metals, alloys, etc. It is the first of its type. It has taken me one year but I have by now a working prototype that is the quintessence of power, control, velvety touch, speed and maneuverability. It will put your Yonex NS8000 in the shade.
You don't believe me, do you? :)

i believe it when i see and play with it.
And some people think yonex marketing is too hypey :p

it sounds like it made of nothing, i hope it cost nothing to buy :p

i believe it when i see and play with it.
And some people think yonex marketing is too hypey :p

it sounds like it made of nothing, i hope it cost nothing to buy :p

The one I have has been tested by about 10 players, and one of them wanted to steal it. The plant will be sending me about 20 today to qc them because they have made a mess. I think I can save them and Hong Kong people will be able to get their hands on these 20 racquets soon, and see for themselves. If they are not as good as what I have hyped up, well here is their chance to grind me to dust. :D BTW there is no such thing as a free racquet. However, it is a "give-away" at the price considering its towering performance.
Because it takes about a year to get this off, I am now looking on an even better racquet project, using materials not currently used on racquets, that is even better than the current jewel, hopefully to be born by early 2007. :D Hope all these happenings cheer you up.

and quantity used.
All clones and fakes i have tried are all flexy rackets.( i didnt say i have tried them all yet)

Yep, I agree. So far I've seen about 20 different clonex rackets and/or fakes and they are all flexible. Not one is stiff.

The one I have has been tested by about 10 players, and one of them wanted to steal it. The plant will be sending me about 20 today to qc them because they have made a mess. I think I can save them and Hong Kong people will be able to get their hands on these 20 racquets soon, and see for themselves. If they are not as good as what I have hyped up, well here is their chance to grind me to dust. :D BTW there is no such thing as a free racquet. However, it is a "give-away" at the price considering its towering performance.
Because it takes about a year to get this off, I am now looking on an even better racquet project, using materials not currently used on racquets, that is even better than the current jewel, hopefully to be born by early 2007. :D Hope all these happenings cheer you up.

If possible, I would like to be one of the men to test your 20 mass samples, but I only can test real in 25lbs tension.

Babolat, Carlton, Dunlop, Wilson, Badgestone, Mizuno............are made in China, why not Taneepak???? I have full confidence with you. :)

I am now on to something new. Yes, a new racquet-still a prototype, but what a prototype!-which doesn't use any carbon graphite, resins, metals, alloys, etc. It is the first of its type. It has taken me one year but I have by now a working prototype that is the quintessence of power, control, velvety touch, speed and maneuverability. It will put your Yonex NS8000 in the shade.
You don't believe me, do you? :)

is it made out of vapor?

I should have been more clear, I was actually referring to the durability of the finish. My TH 800s had poor paint/finish durability while the US ones I've experience are durable, on par with the US coded MPs. So this has me wondering if US (and JP) coded rackets have a better finish than TH (SP, etc...)?

Come to think of it, my US MP99s were more durable as well...hmmmmm...:confused:

Then that i'd have to agree with yr point, my TH at800 has already got a tiny chip on the paint without having any sort of clashes, from the position of it.. looks like either it got chipped by scopping the bird off the floor, or that i've had a couple hard hit on the flame with the birdy while adjusting to this racket's timing. Really i've never experience a paint chip hitting the bird on da flame before.. this is something unexpected. maybe its just the general chacteristic of the AT800 line as i would never know how Durable is the paint job on other distribtuion code ATs. But Yonex did said a few times no matter what the distribution code it is. the higher end model will still be "Made in japan" and there is no quality difference.
However, there r rummor out there saying the China National team coded one "CN" instead of "CH" are of a better quality. i'm not sure how accruate that rumor is but in general if u check stores in HK and other asia area. they do sell CN coded and JP coded ones for higher prices.

I am now on to something new. Yes, a new racquet-still a prototype, but what a prototype!-which doesn't use any carbon graphite, resins, metals, alloys, etc. It is the first of its type. It has taken me one year but I have by now a working prototype that is the quintessence of power, control, velvety touch, speed and maneuverability. It will put your Yonex NS8000 in the shade.
You don't believe me, do you? :)

let me guess, a combination of plastic (yes, it's a resin too), kevlar and fiberglass, excluding the parts for the handle.

Probably some material from armor - bullet resistant material. There are a couple of new materials besides Kevlar out on the market.

let me guess, a combination of plastic (yes, it's a resin too), kevlar and fiberglass, excluding the parts for the handle.

stick to the subject, guys.

stick to the subject, guys.

I doubt anyone can unless they work for Yonex or know of a Yonex insider. :p

I think we have fully explored the subject of this thread. There is no need to go further.

I doubt anyone can unless they work for Yonex or know of a Yonex insider. :p

Yes, I think we are going sideways here. Instead I will post it in a new thread about my "made of nothing costs nothing" (Cooler's summary) racquet. Anyway some of the materials mentioned are not really close to those that go into "my" racquet. I am not one of those who can never think out of the box.! :D

Yes, I think we are going sideways here. Instead I will post it in a new thread about my "made of nothing costs nothing" (Cooler's summary) racquet. Anyway some of the materials mentioned are not really close to those that go into "my" racquet. I am not one of those who can never think out of the box.! :D

u should, so i can keep on guessing :p .
that first guess was just a quickie guess

there rumour that there are not well known brand that produce the same quality as yonex racquet and sold a lot cheaper.. anyone got any idea about stuff like this?? :confused:

there rumour that there are not well known brand that produce the same quality as yonex racquet and sold a lot cheaper.. anyone got any idea about stuff like this?? :confused:

was this rumor #133 or rumor #176 :confused:
is it copies of mp22 or cab 7 :confused:

hint: thread is about factories, not products