Pro's Pro Challenger I Stringing Machine

[J_M_V]

Hi all,

I was thinking about buying a stringing machine. There's only 2 problems: 1. supply here in Finland isn't that good and 2. transporting one from e.g. US costs megabucks. But after some research I found the Pro's Pro Challenger I machine which looks promising, is decently priced (350 euro's) and is available in Finland. Does anybody have any experience on it? It is most likely an OEM product from China, and some other brand is using it too - unfortunately I haven't found any reviews on it anyway. All views would be highly appreciated!

[Quasimodo]

Hard to judge a machine just by picture alone, of course. But, from what I can see, it looks quite good. It's got a linear gripper, racheted dropweight, 6-point---or, 10-point, depending on how you count them---supports, aluminium cast turntable, (appears to be) spring-assisted clamp bases. The clamps are tennis clamps, BTW. They look like my slim-profile Alpha ones. So, you'll probably want to exchange them for or buy extra badminton clamps. Also, some manufacturers have a different set of rod and dropweight for badminton use. You may want to inquire about that too.

I can't see whether the gripper and the clamps are diamond-dusted and, if so, how well it's bonded to the metal base.

IMHO, if it looks as good in person as it looks in the picture, I think you'll have yourself a machine that can outlast your badminton career. :)

FWIW, HTH.

[J_M_V]

Hard to judge a machine just by picture alone, of course. But, from what I can see, it looks quite good. It's got a linear gripper, racheted dropweight, 6-point---or, 10-point, depending on how you count them---supports, aluminium cast turntable, (appears to be) spring-assisted clamp bases. The clamps are tennis clamps, BTW. They look like my slim-profile Alpha ones. So, you'll probably want to exchange them for or buy extra badminton clamps. Also, some manufacturers have a different set of rod and dropweight for badminton use. You may want to inquire about that too.

I can't see whether the gripper and the clamps are diamond-dusted and, if so, how well it's bonded to the metal base.

IMHO, if it looks as good in person as it looks in the picture, I think you'll have yourself a machine that can outlast your badminton career. :)

FWIW, HTH.

Thanks Quasimodo! Clamps are diamond-dusted according to the salesguy. I think this is a fairly popular machine in Europe because it is widely sold in e.g. Netherlands. BTW Since I am totally new to stringing I don't really understand the difference between tennis & badminton clamps: are tennis clamps totally unsuitable for badminton stringing, or are they just poorly fitted to badminton strings? The only badminton clamps I can find in Finland are from Victor, and cost is 28 euro's - a lot?

[Quasimodo]

The problem is that the gap between the teeth in tennis clamps are too large. So, while you can certainly do the mains just fine, when it comes to the crosses, they won't fit in between the mains.

The salesguy told you they don't have fixed badminton clamps? That's a bit odd. They usually do. The Euro 28 Victor clamp you mentioned sound like a flying clamp. Is that true? They'd work, of course, but I personally prefer fixed clamps especially if the machine has them.

So, if the vendor truly don't have a badminton kit for their machine, I'd try to see if any other machine's clamps would fit. Get an accurate caliper and do some measurements (i.e., width and length of the clamp post). Then contact some other vendors to see if their clamps would fit. As I mentioned, the tennis clamps look like my Alpha ones. So, I'd contact them first. Try Mark Gonzalez (mark@alphatennis.com) and ask him if Alpha clamps have the same measurements as yours. You want an exact fit or the drawback after you tension off will be too much. About 1/8" is as much as you want to tolerate because that would be corrected on the next pull.

Other reputable vendors to try are Gamma Sports, Mutual Power and Silent Partner amongst others. Unfortunately, I don't have their contact info. But, they're easy enough to find on Google.

However, I'd first make doubly, triply, quadruply certain that they don't have badminton clamps before taking all that trouble. I find it very strange that a model that's as widely sold as that not to have them.

HTH.

[J_M_V]

Thanks again. I'll try the Pro's Pro salesguy once more, maybe (probably?) he misunderstood me. Ordering from US is painfull because there's all the hassle with customs etc.

[Alexccs]

Hi all,

I was thinking about buying a stringing machine. There's only 2 problems: 1. supply here in Finland isn't that good and 2. transporting one from e.g. US costs megabucks. But after some research I found the Pro's Pro Challenger I machine which looks promising, is decently priced (350 euro's) and is available in Finland. Does anybody have any experience on it? It is most likely an OEM product from China, and some other brand is using it too - unfortunately I haven't found any reviews on it anyway. All views would be highly appreciated!


That is a OEM machine from Eagnas. http://www.eagnas.com/chaln1.html
Like Quasimodo said, the tennis clamp is only good for main strings.
Get two of fly clamps would be ok for the cross.
http://www.eagnas.com/maxgen1/pn3050.html;
http://www.hiquasports.com/badminton/clamp-fly.htm or from Yonex.

[J_M_V]

Thanks Alexccs. I've understood that the place I'm trying to buy this machine is mainly concentrated on tennis - which explains their ignorance on these issues.

[J_M_V]

I just purchased this machine :) . I'll share some stringing experiences after I've strung a few racquets. Thanks for the help guys!

[LazyBuddy]

Which badminton clamps (i assume flying clamps) did you buy? Also, which tension range u usually like to work on? :rolleyes:

[Quasimodo]

So, what clamps did you get? Do they have a special rod and weight kit for badminton? Shops around here that I know of do offer badminton kits for whatever machines they sell, even if their business is mainly tennis. They can at least special order them from the manufacturers for you.

Anyhow, enjoy your new machine when it arrives. Please do share your stringing experience with us.

[J_M_V]

I didn't buy any extra clamps. I asked about this from the guy, but got no reply so I guess he didn't really know what that was all about :confused: . Anyway this is my first machine (and I haven't used anybody else's machine either), so I'll give it a go as it is without extra clamps. I'll probably have to humbly go and find some badminton flying clamps later, but I'll deal with it when that time comes :o . I also bought 200 m of both BG-80 and BG-65 - to my own racquets I've used to use BG-80 with 22 lbs, but now I have a chance to experiment more :cool: . I'll keep you guys posted.

[LazyBuddy]

Anyway this is my first machine (and I haven't used anybody else's machine either), so I'll give it a go as it is without extra clamps. I'll probably have to humbly go and find some badminton flying clamps later, but I'll deal with it when that time comes :o .

Personally, I don't think that's a good idea to go w/o the proper clamps.

You might get away from the main, but once u come to cross, it will give u a pain, if the tennis clamp teeth don't match. Further more, if you do a poor job on the cross, you might end up lose quite a % of tension, which bring un-even force to the racket frame. Such result means risk the racket life, as well as reduce the performance.

My suggestion is to wait several more days, and get at least 2 badminton flying clamps, then start the process. ;)

[Pete LSD]

JMV,

You might consider Eagnas's badminton clamps to replace the tennis clamps. However, I do not know if they will fit.

http://www.eagnas.com/maxgen1/pn1013.html

http://www.eagnas.com/tools.html

[J_M_V]

As I said I most likely have to do as you guys suggested - but sometimes I want to "hit my head to the wall" a bit :p . Anyways the Finnish championships are held next weekend, and I'll have a chance to meet several brand representatives there. Last year at least Yonex, Victor, Babolat, Fukuda and Wilson were present. I should be able to get a couple of flying clamps there - or at least order them. BTW Victor seems to have sufficient ones (picture here: http://www.victor.fi/tuotteet/jannityskoneet.html : you'll learn some finnish too ;) ) But thanks for caring :) .

[LazyBuddy]

As I said I most likely have to do as you guys suggested - but sometimes I want to "hit my head to the wall" a bit :p . Anyways the Finnish championships are held next weekend, and I'll have a chance to meet several brand representatives there. Last year at least Yonex, Victor, Babolat, Fukuda and Wilson were present. I should be able to get a couple of flying clamps there - or at least order them. BTW Victor seems to have sufficient ones (picture here: http://www.victor.fi/tuotteet/jannityskoneet.html : you'll learn some finnish too ;) ) But thanks for caring :) .


Since I don't know finnish, I can say which one is which. The 732 seems like a good one, if that's designed for badminton. Basically, try to avoid the "narrow" ones, as shown in 722. In general, I believe the wider the clamp (of course, badminton ones), the better the result should be, as it reduce the tension lost. :rolleyes:

[J_M_V]

After 2 hours of huffing and puffing I finally got my first racquet strung :D . End result isn't very good (planned to have 20 lbs tension, but ended somewhere around 18 ), but nonetheless it was a good learning experience :rolleyes: .

I started with the above Pro's Pro machine, BG-70Pro string (10m), flat nose pliers, diagonal cutters and an old Pro Kennex racquet. Biggest reasons why it took so long were A) learning how to use the machine properly took a while, B) learning how to efficiently do the crosses took a while as well, C) an awl & flying clamps would've significantly speeded up the process and D) I accidentally snapped the string right in the end, and really had to fight to get some sort of a knot done :o (this affected the tension a lot too). But I'm quite sure the next time I'll get under 60 min, and the more I do the less time it takes.

Actually the tennis clamps weren't that bad. I'd say that flying clamps would've made a bigger impact on the process (than fixed badminton clamps) - I have big hands, and with the big fixed tennis clamps blocking my way under the racquet I had to constantly move the base. Flying clamps could've been used on top of the machine, which would've made things much much easier. But tennis clamps are ok, they bend the mains a bit while doing the crosses but I don't think this makes a big difference. Also the awl would've helped on doing the last crosses, now I really had to fight with a few holes.

For the next stringing job I'll definately buy flying clamps & awl. Let's see what kind of impact that has.

[Pete LSD]

Do not use an awl!!! Use a tooth floss as an aid to get the cross string through those shared grommets.

After 2 hours of huffing and puffing I finally got my first racquet strung :D . End result isn't very good (planned to have 20 lbs tension, but ended somewhere around 18 ), but nonetheless it was a good learning experience :rolleyes: .

I started with the above Pro's Pro machine, BG-70Pro string (10m), flat nose pliers, diagonal cutters and an old Pro Kennex racquet. Biggest reasons why it took so long were A) learning how to use the machine properly took a while, B) learning how to efficiently do the crosses took a while as well, C) an awl & flying clamps would've significantly speeded up the process and D) I accidentally snapped the string right in the end, and really had to fight to get some sort of a knot done :o (this affected the tension a lot too). But I'm quite sure the next time I'll get under 60 min, and the more I do the less time it takes.

Actually the tennis clamps weren't that bad. I'd say that flying clamps would've made a bigger impact on the process (than fixed badminton clamps) - I have big hands, and with the big fixed tennis clamps blocking my way under the racquet I had to constantly move the base. Flying clamps could've been used on top of the machine, which would've made things much much easier. But tennis clamps are ok, they bend the mains a bit while doing the crosses but I don't think this makes a big difference. Also the awl would've helped on doing the last crosses, now I really had to fight with a few holes.

For the next stringing job I'll definately buy flying clamps & awl. Let's see what kind of impact that has.

[Quasimodo]

After 2 hours of huffing and puffing I finally got my first racquet strung :D . End result isn't very good (planned to have 20 lbs tension, but ended somewhere around 18 ), but nonetheless it was a good learning experience :rolleyes: .
...

You may want to get a hold of a tension calibrator and check whether the dropweight markings are spot on. Also, make sure the pole can move freely with as little friction as possible.

Congratulations on your new machine.

[J_M_V]

You may want to get a hold of a tension calibrator and check whether the dropweight markings are spot on. Also, make sure the pole can move freely with as little friction as possible.

Congratulations on your new machine.

Good tip, I think the dropweight markings are way off. After 5 stringing jobs I'd say there's some 2 kg (4 lbs) difference between the markings & actual result. I mean the actual result is 2 kg less than should be according to markings. Though I'm using one piece stringing technique which might explain part of the tension loss. All in all I think I'm getting a hang of the actual work - again thanks for the help guys!

[LazyBuddy]

Good tip, I think the dropweight markings are way off. After 5 stringing jobs I'd say there's some 2 kg (4 lbs) difference between the markings & actual result. I mean the actual result is 2 kg less than should be according to markings. Though I'm using one piece stringing technique which might explain part of the tension loss. All in all I think I'm getting a hang of the actual work - again thanks for the help guys!

Not to question about your skill, but I won't draw a conclusion just after several trials. There are many small things can greatly effect the tension:

1. Clamps. The way you described, seems to be a good source of tension lost. By "twisting" the string, you will lose tension, once it's going back to straight. Don't ignore the extra 0.5cm u created. That might equal to 5lb tension lost!

2. Knoting: Well, this is one of the major source of tension lost.

3. For drop weight, sometimes, u want to give it several sec to let the "levler" settle down. You will be surprised about the difference, as the leveler might "sink down" another 20' or so, after several seconds. This is specially true for stretchy strings (i.e. some gosen ones, BG65/85, etc)

[J_M_V]

Not to question about your skill, but I won't draw a conclusion just after several trials. There are many small things can greatly effect the tension:

1. Clamps. The way you described, seems to be a good source of tension lost. By "twisting" the string, you will lose tension, once it's going back to straight. Don't ignore the extra 0.5cm u created. That might equal to 5lb tension lost!

2. Knoting: Well, this is one of the major source of tension lost.

3. For drop weight, sometimes, u want to give it several sec to let the "levler" settle down. You will be surprised about the difference, as the leveler might "sink down" another 20' or so, after several seconds. This is specially true for stretchy strings (i.e. some gosen ones, BG65/85, etc)

Currently my skills can and should be questioned :rolleyes: . I think it takes quite a few stringing jobs before the end result is consistent.

You are right, part of the loss comes from the first two points. That is why I just ordered two badminton flying clamps. For knotting I guess you always lose a bit of tension, but this can be taken into account during tensioning (add a bit extra which you lose while knotting). Third point sounds interesting, have to give it a try. Though if I'm using always the same string (BG80) and do the stringing the same way, then perhaps the end result should be quite the same anyway (=doesn't matter even if the strings stretch a bit)?

BTW Maybe it is just me being butterfingers but even the sixth stringing job took me about an hour... I'm hoping that the flying clamps takes some 10 - 15 min away from this.

[LazyBuddy]

Personally, I say by using drop weight machine, it will take you at least 40+ min for a decent job. Of course, this is based on my lowly skill and fat fingers. :p In general, it takes a bit longer due to the way it tensions the string and perhaps lack of ability to "pre-string". :rolleyes:

[J_M_V]

Personally, I say by using drop weight machine, it will take you at least 40+ min for a decent job.

Good to know that it is not just me...:o . BTW trying to do it quicker without actual skills took even longer - by rushing I just got the strings tangled all around.

[Pete LSD]

It takes ages to do proper string job on a drop-weight machine. Every string I get to wait at least ten seconds. Often I let the weight drop vey slowly to avoid breaking the frame.

[LazyBuddy]

Good to know that it is not just me...:o . BTW trying to do it quicker without actual skills took even longer - by rushing I just got the strings tangled all around.

No rush.

I would rather take 60 min to do a good job, rather than 45 min to rush and make mistakes. Unless u open business like string 10+ rackets per day, guess everyone can afford to spend an extra 10-15 min per day to get a good job done. ;)

[Pete LSD]

You are faster than me. I usually take 1 hr 45 mins :rolleyes:.


No rush.

I would rather take 60 min to do a good job, rather than 45 min to rush and make mistakes. Unless u open business like string 10+ rackets per day, guess everyone can afford to spend an extra 10-15 min per day to get a good job done. ;)

[Neil Nicholls]

It takes ages to do proper string job on a drop-weight machine. Every string I get to wait at least ten seconds. Often I let the weight drop vey slowly to avoid breaking the frame.
if you are going to wait for the string to stretch every time you pull, you might as well pre-stretch the whole string before you start stringing.

an extra benefit is that it takes some of the coil memory out of the string so it's easier to work with

[J_M_V]

if you are going to wait for the string to stretch every time you pull, you might as well pre-stretch the whole string before you start stringing.

an extra benefit is that it takes some of the coil memory out of the string so it's easier to work with

Do you mean with pre-stretching that you do the stringing somehow twice? Could you explain more? I've noticed that using strings from 200 m roll is a lot easier - in 10 m rolls strings are packed much tighter, and when unrolling the string I tend to make a huge mess. Pre-stretching, as you said, would most likely help.

[Neil Nicholls]

Do you mean with pre-stretching that you do the stringing somehow twice?
Either with string from a packet or from a reel.
Before you start stringing the racquet
take your full length, say 10m, and stretch it for 30-60 seconds.

I stretch by putting a starting clamp on each end, put the middle around a circular knob on top of the post at the top of my stairs, and pull both ends together.

Then cut it into 2 pieces if you are going to do 2-piece stringing.

How hard to pull and for how long?
open for debate.

How hard?
no more than the tension you are going to string at maybe
(if you double the string around something you have to pull 2x as hard)

For how long?
different for different string thickness, construction
(gotta go to a meeting...more later maybe, but as usual a search will probably turn up previous discussions)

[Quasimodo]

Either with string from a packet or from a reel.
Before you start stringing the racquet
take your full length, say 10m, and stretch it for 30-60 seconds.

I stretch by putting a starting clamp on each end, put the middle around a circular knob on top of the post at the top of my stairs, and pull both ends together.

Very similar, but I clamp both ends with 1 clamp. I also wear a glove when I pull. Easier on my hands.


...
How hard?
no more than the tension you are going to string at maybe
(if you double the string around something you have to pull 2x as hard)

I wondered about just much tension I put on a string when I prestretch it, because I was a little worried that I stretch it to its breaking point, so I tried to "prestretch" my calibrator. I know this is highly unscientific and all, but it still gives me some rough idea about the amount of force I put on the string. To my surprise, it's barely above 20 lbs. I leaned back as far as I could and it still wouldn't budge from the 20 lbs. mark. I suppose I'm slightly less worried about prestretching strings now.


For how long?
different for different string thickness, construction
(gotta go to a meeting...more later maybe, but as usual a search will probably turn up previous discussions)

I think most stringers would recommend about a minute. I do 2 minutes.

[lindanfan]

are you sure that you want that machine? i have just ordered the pros pro comet 1, which is there top of the line free standing crank model. it is only £275 + VAT, i ordered it from http://www.watdon.com/wd_home.html , delivery to the UK is free but im sure you could organise some way of delivering to you. read this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=366489#post366489 it has a picture of the comet 1 and some details, if you are interested in pros pro machien then http://www.watdon.com/wd_home.html has all of them including the challenger I which is at a very cheap price; £225 + VAT

[Quasimodo]

Seems like the Comet 1 has suspension-style mounting arms. You may want to ask whether you need an extra kit to mount badminton racquets on it. Because often times the arms end up being too long and/or don't close enough to grip the frame. Just as an example, Babolat offers a badminton/squash kit for their machines which contains, among other things, deeper billiard posts(?)---they're the head and throat support posts, not quite sure what the technical term is---and extra slip-on side paddings to make sure the side supports would sufficiently grip the racquet.

But, if you can make it work, I think this type of a mounting system is the way to go. Provided that it's well-made, of course, just like everything else. It's a little quicker to use---4 controls instead of 6---and is less likely to block holes.

FWIW.

[Pete LSD]

The Babolat badminton kit sells for CAD 649 in Canada!!! Freaking expensive . . . I can get a pretty decent Eagnas crank machine for that amount of money.

[Quasimodo]

The Babolat badminton kit sells for CAD 649 in Canada!!! Freaking expensive . . . I can get a pretty decent Eagnas crank machine for that amount of money.

I didn't say it's cheap. I just said it's available. :D :)

[lindanfan]

quasimodo,

i spoke to W&D strings and the woman said that all i would need to string badminton rackets is a pair of badminton clamps, i'm not sure if you said that the machine was a 4-point mount (you said 4-point is quicker than 6) but this machine has a 6-point mounting.

[Quasimodo]

I was actually referring to the controls, not the number of racquet support contacts. It is a 6-point, or 10-point depending on how you count them, machine; but, since it's got a suspension-style mounting system, you've only 4 controls to manipulate instead of 6.

If they say that you'll only need badminton clamps, then we can only hope that they've verified it themselves that that indeed is the case. You still may want to make sure that they'll work with you after the sale, in case you have problems.

FWIW, HTH.

[J_M_V]

are you sure that you want that machine? i have just ordered the pros pro comet 1, which is there top of the line free standing crank model. it is only £275 + VAT, i ordered it from http://www.watdon.com/wd_home.html , delivery to the UK is free but im sure you could organise some way of delivering to you. read this thread: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=366489#post366489 it has a picture of the comet 1 and some details, if you are interested in pros pro machien then http://www.watdon.com/wd_home.html has all of them including the challenger I which is at a very cheap price; £225 + VAT

Ordered it and have been using it for 2 months now. I've been fairly satisfied with it, and the price was reasonably too (550 € including vat, transportation, 1 reel of 200m BG80 & BG65, 1 flying clamp). Still struggling to get under 60 minutes though :o ...

[CoolDoo6]

A 4 point machine is also quicker to break the racket. When it comes to stringing machines, proper support is everything. Breaking a racket, or having the racket warping on you because of insufficient support could well ruin your entire day.



quasimodo,

i spoke to W&D strings and the woman said that all i would need to string badminton rackets is a pair of badminton clamps, i'm not sure if you said that the machine was a 4-point mount (you said 4-point is quicker than 6) but this machine has a 6-point mounting.

[CoolDoo6]

If you can do a good job in 60 minutes, I will get down on my hands and knees and beg you to be my master :). I have the same machine, and been stringing for myself and others for 6 months. I would consider myself superman on those rare occassions when I managed to string from start to finish in 90 minutes.


Ordered it and have been using it for 2 months now. I've been fairly satisfied with it, and the price was reasonably too (550 € including vat, transportation, 1 reel of 200m BG80 & BG65, 1 flying clamp). Still struggling to get under 60 minutes though :o ...

[J_M_V]

If you can do a good job in 60 minutes, I will get down on my hands and knees and beg you to be my master :). I have the same machine, and been stringing for myself and others for 6 months. I would consider myself superman on those rare occassions when I managed to string from start to finish in 90 minutes.

You just need a couple of flying clamps. The ones that come with this machine are grab. And this machine is quite sturdy, which in my mind makes it easier to go high tensions with it (not that I would need to do that :rolleyes: ) and it'll probably last you way longer than many others. Plenty of stringing time - especially with a new racquet - goes to getting the string through already occupied hole. That's something I'm still trying to get sorted out (yes yes have tried floss, hooks etc :o ).

[RipaJaska]

Have you checked the calibration of the machine? I bought a same model and the mass of the weight was nearly 70 grams too high (diameter is 68 mm and it should be 66 mm). I drilled six 6,5 mm through holes to the weight to fix the problem.

The tension depends on the angle of rotation of the gripper. If the gripper is in a horizontal position the tension is +0,7 kg and in a opposite horizontal position the tension is -0,7 kg. In a downward position the tension is ok.

I checked the tension with my digital fish scale.

[CoolDoo6]

The machine comes with 2 bolted on weights. You need to just use one. It's easier to re-mark the tension scale strip than to drill holes in things.

The idiot I bought the machine from knew nothing about the machine. So i nearly tensioned my MP99 to 50LBs.

[LazyBuddy]

The machine comes with 2 bolted on weights. You need to just use one. It's easier to re-mark the tension scale strip than to drill holes in things.

The idiot I bought the machine from knew nothing about the machine. So i nearly tensioned my MP99 to 50LBs.


In won't call the previous owner an idiot. It's down to the new owner to re-cal the machine, especially if it's 2nd handed. Maybe the previous owner was using that for racketball/tennis racket? :rolleyes:

[CoolDoo6]

Well the idiot i bought the machine from was the owner of a shop.

[LazyBuddy]

Well the idiot i bought the machine from was the owner of a shop.

Please respect other individual. :( Imagine how you will feel, if you ever make a mistake, and ppl talking rudely about you in the public. :cool: :eek:

[RipaJaska]

If the weight is too heavy you loose the lighter part of the scale. Challenger has a tension range 7...37 kg and I don't want to loose any of it's lighter part.

I think it's harder to clue the new scale to the rod than drill those six holes to it.

[CoolDoo6]

i stuck masking tape on top of the factory scale, and drew my own scale after calibrating the machine with a fishing scale. I can string from 13LB to maybe 30LB tesion. That's about all I need. By the time I can handle 30LB tension on my racket, I would probably be world number 1. By then the string machine makers will throw free machines my way.

[Pete LSD]

That's wishful thinking or should we call it "pie in the sky".


. . . That's about all I need. By the time I can handle 30LB tension on my racket, I would probably be world number 1. By then the string machine makers will throw free machines my way.