Crank vs Dropweight?

[taber]

Hello,

I am going to buy a stringing machine in 2 months time, and I have the choice between a dropweight and Crank. The prices are the same. Besides the difference Crank vs dropweight, they both have 6 mountingpoints.


You can see them on www.tengo.dk > Strengemaskiner > Maskiner > Eagnas challenger1 and Eagnas professinonal badminton 1.

Christoffer.

EDIT: And what clamps would you recommend? www.tengo.dk > Strengemaskiner > Tilbehor.

[Quasimodo]

Generally speaking you can string a little faster using a crank machine, because you don't have to worry about levelling the dropweight. However, the dropweight tensioning system is also a constant-pull which many stringers and players like, your truly included.

Between those two choices, I'd probably lean more towards the Challenger 1, but not because of its tensioning system. I lean that way because it has fixed swivel clamps. The dropweight rod wouldn't allow a 360 degree racquet rotation, but you'd get used to that quickly.

If you choose to use flying clamps, Alpha/HiQua clamps appear to be quite good according to other stringers here who've used them. Though I don't know how expensive it is to import them to Denmark. (Another reason I'd lean towards a fixed clamp machine.)

FWIW, HTH.

[silentheart]

I tried Eagnas fly clamp before. The quality control need to be improved. HiQua or Yonex fly clamp works great in my opinion. Usually 2 can do a pretty good job. However, there are member here think 3 fly clamps min is required and some argue 4. I use 3 and I think it works fine.

[DinkAlot]

If you choose to use flying clamps, Alpha/HiQua clamps appear to be quite good according to other stringers here who've used them.

I don't think the Alpha fly clamp is as good as the Yonex or HiQua. It doesn't hold the string as well IMHO and it has sharp teeth that bit into the string and can hurt the string.

[DinkAlot]

I tried Eagnas fly clamp before. The quality control need to be improved. HiQua or Yonex fly clamp works great in my opinion. Usually 2 can do a pretty good job. However, there are member here think 3 fly clamps min is required and some argue 4. I use 3 and I think it works fine.

Silent: How do you use 3 clamps?

[Quasimodo]

I don't think the Alpha fly clamp is as good as the Yonex or HiQua. It doesn't hold the string as well IMHO and it has sharp teeth that bit into the string and can hurt the string.

Could easily be wrong, of course, but they look identical in pictures I've seen of them. Are they really different?

[DinkAlot]

Could easily be wrong, of course, but they look identical in pictures I've seen of them. Are they really different?

Ooops! My bad! I mean to say "Gamma" not "Alpha". I never tried the Alpha clamp. Totally misread. Can a Mod delete my previous post.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the mistake. :o :p

[Quasimodo]

Ooops! My bad! I mean to say "Gamma" not "Alpha". I never tried the Alpha clamp. Totally misread. Can a Mod delete my previous post.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the mistake. :o :p

Not at all. Gamma's indeed taken a lot of flak for providing composite (read: plastic) clamps with their lower-priced machines. I've never used them myself, though.

Speaking of clamps, I've got one of those Yonex flying clamps---don't remember what the model number is, I think the packaging said "Strong Clip" or something---I can't say I'm impressed by it. Didn't seem to hold well in the couple of times I've had to use it.

[taber]

I don't reallly care about my stringing time, so I think I will go with the Challenger 1 then. How about the clamps? Do I need to buy 2 extra? If, which one? preferable from the same shop.

[LazyBuddy]

Speaking of clamps, I've got one of those Yonex flying clamps---don't remember what the model number is, I think the packaging said "Strong Clip" or something---I can't say I'm impressed by it. Didn't seem to hold well in the couple of times I've had to use it.

How much tension you put on, when you see this problem? Also, is your Yonex clamp the old model (blue) or the newer version (black)? :rolleyes:

[DinkAlot]

How much tension you put on, when you see this problem? Also, is your Yonex clamp the old model (blue) or the newer version (black)? :rolleyes:

I've only used the Black version, seemed OK for me at 28lbs. I personally have 4 Hi-Qua Fly Clamps and one Gamma Composite (that never gets used).

[Quasimodo]

I don't reallly care about my stringing time, so I think I will go with the Challenger 1 then. How about the clamps? Do I need to buy 2 extra? If, which one? preferable from the same shop.

This one: http://www.tengo.dk/shop/productinfo.asp?id=262

Not sure if that shop would be willing to customise your order, but depending on your stringing needs---if you're going to string badminton racquets exclusively---you may want to ask them to sub the stock clamps which are almost always tennis clamps with the badminton pair. That way you don't have to pay extra for them.

[Quasimodo]

How much tension you put on, when you see this problem? Also, is your Yonex clamp the old model (blue) or the newer version (black)? :rolleyes:

The black one. I don't remember exactly what tension I used it on because it's about a year ago when I used it last. IIRC, I was stringing the racquet of one of HS coaches whom I know. According to my notes, I usually string hers at 26 lbs. for the crosses.

P.S.: Is there an implied sarcasm in your response? I don't see where it could've been applied nor do I see any need for it.

[Pete LSD]

You use the Gamma one for area that the black Yonex clamp doesn't fit in.


I've only used the Black version, seemed OK for me at 28lbs. I personally have 4 Hi-Qua Fly Clamps and one Gamma Composite (that never gets used).

[DinkAlot]

You use the Gamma one for area that the black Yonex clamp doesn't fit in.

Actually the Yonex one would fit, it's the Hi-Qua that doesn't fit. Can't get two Hi-Qua clamps onto the last string because they are too wide. One Hi-Qua and one Gamma or Yonex will fit though. :)

[LazyBuddy]

The black one. I don't remember exactly what tension I used it on because it's about a year ago when I used it last. IIRC, I was stringing the racquet of one of HS coaches whom I know. According to my notes, I usually string hers at 26 lbs. for the crosses.

P.S.: Is there an implied sarcasm in your response? I don't see where it could've been applied nor do I see any need for it.

Personally, I think once u go beyond 25lb, any flying clamp will get a hard time to maintain tension. The way to do it, is to use the 4 flying clamp (or 3) method, or use fixed clamps.

I've just ordered a black one, as a backup for my current 2 yonex (blue, older version) ones. Hope the quality is about the same.

[taber]

This one: http://www.tengo.dk/shop/productinfo.asp?id=262

Not sure if that shop would be willing to customise your order, but depending on your stringing needs---if you're going to string badminton racquets exclusively---you may want to ask them to sub the stock clamps which are almost always tennis clamps with the badminton pair. That way you don't have to pay extra for them.

I will ask them if I can get the stock replaced :D Thank you for all your answers. Hopefully I will order in 1-2 months time :D

[silentheart]

Silent: How do you use 3 clamps?

Dear Sir DinkALot,
When did I become a heartless one??? :crying:
Anyway, I use 3 clamps because I find it works as good as using 4. It is just like the 4 claimps method except I only use 1 clamp on the side I am not working on. I move one right and left depend on which side I am stringing. I usually string 2 main on each side before I switch to the other side. Usually 2 fly clamps (and no, I don't clamp my fly with it) are used for cross because I feel that is enough...

Have a nice week!

[LazyBuddy]

Dear Sir DinkALot,
When did I become a heartless one??? :crying:
Anyway, I use 3 clamps because I find it works as good as using 4. It is just like the 4 claimps method except I only use 1 clamp on the side I am not working on. I move one right and left depend on which side I am stringing. I usually string 2 main on each side before I switch to the other side. Usually 2 fly clamps (and no, I don't clamp my fly with it) are used for cross because I feel that is enough...

Have a nice week!

This is exactly what I am doing as well. With a constant pulling machine (i.e. drop weight), you don't have to care too much about the extra tension lost on the non-working side of main, as it will be pulled evenly, when you tension that side. The extra clamp on the working side is mostly needed, once u finished tensioning the last main on the side, and trying to make the knot. This is the only critical moment, due to possible tension lost. ;)

[Quasimodo]

Personally, I think once u go beyond 25lb, any flying clamp will get a hard time to maintain tension. The way to do it, is to use the 4 flying clamp (or 3) method, or use fixed clamps.

You're right. I only used the flying clamp in emergencies (i.e., when the fixed clamps couldn't quite clamp the last top cross). But, I've since readjusted the way I mount frames on the machine and have no more need for the flying clamp, so far.


I've just ordered a black one, as a backup for my current 2 yonex (blue, older version) ones. Hope the quality is about the same.

I'd've given you mine. :)

[DinkAlot]

I'd've given you mine. :)

You have one or some Yonex fly clamps you want to get rid of? I maybe interested. :D

[Quasimodo]

You have one or some Yonex fly clamps you want to get rid of? I maybe interested. :D

I've one. Practically new, used less than 5 times, no original packaging.

Let me know if you're interested.

[DinkAlot]

I've one. Practically new, used less than 5 times, no original packaging.

Let me know if you're interested.

Sure, please PM me. :D

[taneepak]

For crank machine owners, there is something you can do to make it hold its tension like in a constant pull machine. You will need a tension calibrator. All you do is set the crank machine tension to say 25lbs, crank and pull on the calibrator, and when the crank stops you will see 25lbs. Now leave it as it is for a few seconds, roughly about the same elapsed time it would take you to clamp the tensioned string, then read the tension on the calibrator. It should read lower than 25lbs, maybe 24lbs. The latter is your crank's rough equivalent of the constant-pull tension; it will also prolong your stringing time. Another method is to set your tension at 26lbs if you want a tension of 25lbs, without waiting for the tension to drop back from 26lbs to 25lbs. This way you save some time.

[david14700]

I'm surprised by the comments about the Yonex clamps.

I've used the old (blue) ones for about 7 years and never had any problems, stringing up to 32lbs.

I'm not sure what kind of problems you could have, it's such a simple device. Did the string actually slip out of the jaws or something?

I've got larger fixed clamps with badminton sized jaws, but I've used them just once, just to see how they performed. They're okay, but soooo slow compared to the Yonex clamps (or clips, which is what they really are).

[DinkAlot]

I'm surprised by the comments about the Yonex clamps.

I've used the old (blue) ones for about 7 years and never had any problems, stringing up to 32lbs.

I'm not sure what kind of problems you could have, it's such a simple device. Did the string actually slip out of the jaws or something?

I've got larger fixed clamps with badminton sized jaws, but I've used them just once, just to see how they performed. They're okay, but soooo slow compared to the Yonex clamps (or clips, which is what they really are).

I have the newer black Yonex clamp and it's not that good compared to the Hi-Qua Fly Clamp. The Hi-Qua clamps tighter, is easier to maneuver and just easier to use overall. If you're happy with your old clamps, that's great. :)

[LazyBuddy]

I'm surprised by the comments about the Yonex clamps.

I've used the old (blue) ones for about 7 years and never had any problems, stringing up to 32lbs.



I have both the new (black) and old (blue) ones. Seems the old ones are a bit better in performance, as it appear to hold a bit tighter in high tension (25+ lb). However, if you mainly working with low tension, same, 24 or below, I really don't see too much difference, especially with a consistant pulling machine. ;)

[Quasimodo]

...
I've got larger fixed clamps with badminton sized jaws, but I've used them just once, just to see how they performed. They're okay, but soooo slow compared to the Yonex clamps (or clips, which is what they really are).

Well, I think this depends on what you're used to. IOW, if you're used to flying clamps, then double-action fixed clamps would feel slower. If you're used to the latter, then flying clamps would seem more cumbersome and slower.

And, it also depends on the make and quality of the clamps too. From what I've read, the Babolat Sensor and Star 5 systems are very smooth and quick to use.

[Erwin]

I'm on the verge of buying a stringing machine as well. Just like taber, I'll choose either the Challenger, or the professional 1000.

Initially I wanted to go for the Challenger, because of the fixed clamps (which I can get replaced by badminton-clamps for free) and because of the constant-pull tensioning system. However, the shop-owner said that the Pro1000 would be better, because it's a badminton-only machine. The Challenger would be much bulkier, and isn't as sophisticated. He also said that the mounting points would be blocking two grommets.

Perhaps, someone like taber, who allready owns the machine could provide some experiences, with either the challenger and the Pro1000. Thanks in advance!

[Quasimodo]

...
Initially I wanted to go for the Challenger, because of the fixed clamps (which I can get replaced by badminton-clamps for free) and because of the constant-pull tensioning system. However, the shop-owner said that the Pro1000 would be better, because it's a badminton-only machine. The Challenger would be much bulkier, and isn't as sophisticated. He also said that the mounting points would be blocking two grommets....

No offence to the shop owner intended, but I'd take most shop owners', especially ones you don't know personally, words with some grains of salt. As you should too with anonymous suggestions you get in an online forum. :)

If you're lucky enough to get your hands on either machines prior to purchasing one, I'd strongly suggest you do just that. Bring a frame---strung or unstrung---mount it on both and see how you like them. See if you can adjust the mounting such that the side supports fall in between holes. See how smooth the actions on the swivel clamps are. BTW, speaking of blocked holes, unless I'm looking at different models, both machines you mentioned have 6-point supports. So, either side supports could potentially block holes. I don't see how one would be more problematic in the regards than the other.

FWIW, HTH.

[Erwin]

No offence to the shop owner intended, but I'd take most shop owners', especially ones you don't know personally, words with some grains of salt. As you should too with anonymous suggestions you get in an online forum. :)

That's exactly why I asked it here. I'll take your statements more serious than those of the shop owner.


If you're lucky enough to get your hands on either machines prior to purchasing one, I'd strongly suggest you do just that. Bring a frame---strung or unstrung---mount it on both and see how you like them. See if you can adjust the mounting such that the side supports fall in between holes. See how smooth the actions on the swivel clamps are.

Unfortunately that's not an option, the store is about 250km away (150 miles or so). The shop owner just happened to be at the Euro Championships, where I spoke to him.


BTW, speaking of blocked holes, unless I'm looking at different models, both machines you mentioned have 6-point supports. So, either side supports could potentially block holes. I don't see how one would be more problematic in the regards than the other.

FWIW, HTH.

That's exactly what I thought, but from what he said, it sounded like it was more of a problem with the challenger, because the supports are bigger.

If the supports are the same as on Dinkalot's machine (wich is also an Eagnas machine) shown here (http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5337/flex9400065hj.jpg). It doesn't look like much of a problem to me...

[DinkAlot]

If the supports are the same as on Dinkalot's machine (wich is also an Eagnas machine) shown here (http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5337/flex9400065hj.jpg). It doesn't look like much of a problem to me...

Yes, my Eagnas Flex 940 supports are good. They don't block much at all. :)

[Matt]

Had anyone thought about the Prince Neo 1000 Spring Tention Pull machine?

http://www.princetennis.com/product/product_detail.asp?CategoryID=143&Product=765

[DinkAlot]

Had anyone thought about the Prince Neo 1000 Spring Tention Pull machine?

http://www.princetennis.com/product/product_detail.asp?CategoryID=143&Product=765

Yep, I looked at it, no doubt a good machine but it only has a 2-point support. For Bad, I feel we need at least a 4-point corner support. I do know quite a few that have been using a 2-point support for years with no problems.

[cooler]

Had anyone thought about the Prince Neo 1000 Spring Tention Pull machine?

http://www.princetennis.com/product/product_detail.asp?CategoryID=143&Product=765


it's a bit old style but is sturdy and last a long time. U will be paying for its durability.

[Quasimodo]

...That's exactly what I thought, but from what he said, it sounded like it was more of a problem with the challenger, because the supports are bigger.

If the supports are the same as on Dinkalot's machine (wich is also an Eagnas machine) shown here (http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5337/flex9400065hj.jpg). It doesn't look like much of a problem to me...

IMHO, the side supports wouldn't be an issue. Just as Dink said, too. They're "standard" size supports and you can adjust the way you mount the racquet so that they wouldn't block any holes.

Personally, of the two models mentioned, I'd choose the Challenger. Primarily because of the fixed swivel clamps. May be other stringers here who use Eagnas fixed clamp machines can comment on the quality of the clamps.

Crank tensioners are usually a bit faster to use, but if you weigh the pros and cons of that versus the clutch dropweight, I think you'll find that they're equally good.

Speaking of dropweights machines, seeing that you're from the Netherlands, have you looked at Stringway machines? They're the Rolls Royce of dropweight machines and are priced accordingly. :)

[Matt]

Yep, I looked at it, no doubt a good machine but it only has a 2-point support. For Bad, I feel we need at least a 4-point corner support. I do know quite a few that have been using a 2-point support for years with no problems.

I see. Techically the machine does have 4 points, 2 at the top and bottom - the picture does not show them well.

The local store I go to uses this machine for badminton rackets.

[Pete LSD]

Prince Neo 1000 is great for up to 25 lbs string jobs. If you want anything over 25 lbs, the stringer has to start the cross from the middle.


I see. Techically the machine does have 4 points, 2 at the top and bottom - the picture does not show them well.

The local store I go to uses this machine for badminton rackets.

[DinkAlot]

I see. Techically the machine does have 4 points, 2 at the top and bottom - the picture does not show them well.

The local store I go to uses this machine for badminton rackets.

I should have been more clear, when I said 4-points, I meant one in each corner. Not referring to top and bottom points (2-point).

[Matt]

Just curious, now would there be advantage/disadvantages betwen the 2/4/6 points? I've heard various debates reguarding them. Maybe you know DinkAlot?

[DinkAlot]

Just curious, now would there be advantage/disadvantages betwen the 2/4/6 points? I've heard various debates reguarding them. Maybe you know DinkAlot?

May stance: if you string 25lbs. or less, a 2-point (top and bottom) will be OK and the fastest (no blockage during stringing). If higher tension or just to be safer, get a 4-point (four corner) or more stringing machine. This will minimize racket distortion.

[silentheart]

May stance: if you string 25lbs. or less, a 2-point (top and bottom) will be OK and the fastest (no blockage during stringing). If higher tension or just to be safer, get a 4-point (four corner) or more stringing machine. This will minimize racket distortion.

I second what Sir DinkALot say. It is also faster to mount the racquet with a 2 points support than 4 or more. Since I string tennis racquet on my 6 pt machine also, it take extra 5~7 min to change between badminton and tennis mountings.

[LazyBuddy]

May stance: if you string 25lbs. or less, a 2-point (top and bottom) will be OK and the fastest (no blockage during stringing). If higher tension or just to be safer, get a 4-point (four corner) or more stringing machine. This will minimize racket distortion.


In theory, 25 lb is the cutting line. If you are experienced and the racket is in good shape, I believe you can even push for 28lb or so on a 2 point machine. However, don't recommended though. ;)

[fishmilk]

I have a Laserfibre, and I'm not advertising, but I must say the quality of the string job is superb. It's very tight like a Babolat machine would do. The supports could be better but if you use some supergrap and just be very careful, I've handled up to 28lbs without trouble. Because of Laserfibre's patented technology, you don't have to level the dropweight making its speed comparable to a crank machine.

[Pete LSD]

Still get to be careful with how fast you drop the weight ;).


I have a Laserfibre, and I'm not advertising, but I must say the quality of the string job is superb. It's very tight like a Babolat machine would do. The supports could be better but if you use some supergrap and just be very careful, I've handled up to 28lbs without trouble. Because of Laserfibre's patented technology, you don't have to level the dropweight making its speed comparable to a crank machine.