bad line calls=good for badminton?

[checkthemc]

Okay this may seem odd, but at international games/level I think bad line calls are good because they make the game more entertaining and show the mental toughness of the player.I know sometimes the games are very close and a single point may make all the difference, but often I see some players lose 5 or 6 points off a single controversial line call. Seeing how players react under pressure and bad line calls makes the game more unpredictable and more upsets happen. This is can be good for the underdog or the favorite because the underdog can quickly score a few quick points if the favorites mental toughness is weak, or the favorite can show his focus and concentration and walk away with the game. Anyone else care to comment?

[silentheart]

Since you live in Bay area. I would like to ask you "what are you smoking?" Are you still living in early 80 when Johny Mac scream and yell at the ref? Badminton is a gentalmen/ladies' game. Bad line call will only get the true fan smad and turn them off. It will only confuse the first time viewers. I understand you would like to be lucky than good. That can only carry you so far. Just wait when it happen to you...

[ChocoChipWaffle]

some people just CAN'T stand giving others advices P O L I T E L Y

[iso300]

Okay this may seem odd, but at international games/level I think bad line calls are good because they make the game more entertaining and show the mental toughness of the player.I know sometimes the games are very close and a single point may make all the difference, but often I see some players lose 5 or 6 points off a single controversial line call. Seeing how players react under pressure and bad line calls makes the game more unpredictable and more upsets happen. This is can be good for the underdog or the favorite because the underdog can quickly score a few quick points if the favorites mental toughness is weak, or the favorite can show his focus and concentration and walk away with the game. Anyone else care to comment?

I don't think bad line calls are good at all for the game. It would be really sad to have a set/match end on a bad line call especially. i.e. Peter Gade vs. Chen Jin at the recent China Masters in game 1.

I'm sure the underdog player who beats the favourite doesn't want to be remembered for that his victory was due to a bad line call which turned things around in his way.

Do you get a good feeling watching those players get affected greatly because of a bad line call? :) Agreeing with silentheart, let's see what you'll say when this happens to you one day.

[__Lam]

bad line calls are the exact opposite in my opinion.

[madbad]

checkthemc, I think I see where you're coming from, but perhaps you've misphrased your thoughts, resulting in a little venom from some BC posters.

Instead I would like to suggest if you were questioning how bad line calls affect players and how they react mentally to them. Those who let the emotions get the better of them have a longer "cooling down" period during which they'll probably lose 4-5 point, after which they recover. Those with stronger mental fortitude should be able to put the issue behind them and concentrate on the next point. That's what a professional should be about.

I don't think bad line calls are good for badminton, nor bad umpiring/refereeing decisions for any sport for that matter. However, as the cliche goes, "you have to be good to be lucky and lucky to be good", and a good player will seize the advantage when presented. From a personal point of view, when I play (at my meagre reacreational level), I naturally question a line call which I think is incorrect but most of the time just accept it or laugh it off.

Funny Slientheart should mention John McEnroe and his tantrums over line calls. While he was certainly a source of entertainment over these things, he was a tremendously gifted tennis player with unmatched racket control. It was unbelievable how "soft" his hand was and how he was able to manipulate the ball. If he was a badminton player, he would have been a treat to watch. From a pure racket skill perspective, I've always tried to emulate him.

So all you BCers out there, don't be too harsh on checkthemc. I think what he's going on about has more to do with mental toughness. :)

[DinkAlot]

Bad line calls = it happens. And it'll happen to you sooner or later. :p

Just try not to worry about it and continue playing. :)

[checkthemc]

Lol. Sorry if I wasnt clear but yeah, I'm trying to focus on the mental toughness of the player. If you watched the copenhagen masters of peter gade vs bao, peter had several bad line calls. Instead of letting anger get to him, he sucked it up and won the game, even if it was really close.

[checkthemc]

And yeah, silentheart you could stand to be a little politer. You kinda screwed yourself over saying this game is a gentlemens/ladies game by acting rude. And yes, bad line calls do happen to me but I try to keep focus.

[silentheart]

And yeah, silentheart you could stand to be a little politer. You kinda screwed yourself over saying this game is a gentlemens/ladies game by acting rude. And yes, bad line calls do happen to me but I try to keep focus.

Sorry , I tried to make my point across that bad line call is not good for anyone and I went over the top a little. Also, I have problem try to be funny and not too good at it. I would like to echo many member from before, mental toughness is a big factor in any match and any sport. Also, as I said before, badminton is a gentalman/lady's game. So, play on and do your best to win the nex point unless it is the game point. Then we need to have a replay system...

[Jinryu]

My first thought is "That'd be like saying fights in hockey is good for hockey!"

In general, if I want something that has a lot of drama and unpredictable scenarios, I'd watch professional wrestling. In most other games I want to see winners win cleanly and losers win cleanly as well. Sports depend on rules, and rules depend on good intepretation of them.

For all the pressure that we get to see tested on a player when they're the victim of a bad call, while that can be intersting, I don't find it worth it if the other player gains something for something he made a mistake on. The question is, are we concerned about badminton being a test of skills between players, or are we concerned about badminton being entertaining for fans?

For all that can be tested of me when I'm in a close match, I kinda consider a bad call against me just like any other point against me.

[DinkAlot]

Also, I have problem try to be funny and not too good at it.

There's an easy remedy for this, just add a few faces. :p :D :D :D :)

[DinkAlot]

In general, if I want something that has a lot of drama and unpredictable scenarios, I'd watch professional wrestling.

Actually, "professional" wrestling is the most predictable sport: expect the unexpected. If at one point, everything is normal, you know something will happen...soon. :p

[LazyBuddy]

We do know mental toughness and mis-judgement could be part of the game, however, intentional bad calls will ruin the sport itself. It's like, why study for exams? Just hope the teachers can mis-grade the paper, and the suppose to fail student will get a passing grade, while the A student will fail... :rolleyes: :eek:

[Loopy]

On bad line calls, I don't even give it a thought and don't care.
But while I understand mental toughness, intentional bad line calls are unfair especially in the professional world.
Just look at some of the matches in the China Open, especially the first round with one chinese against a korean in MS. So many bad calls in favor of the chinese, mental toughness won't change the score.
So good for badminton? No.
And Jinryu sums it up the best :)

[checkthemc]

Hmm. A few of you misunderstood me. I'm not saying just the bad line calls. I'm even including that perhaps the line judge was right and the player was wrong. Maybe I should have said that in the origional post. And I'm not saying bad line calls is for the FANS. If the player can shake it off and still claim the victory and still believes that the past line call was bad, then the victory will be sweeter. Believe me, if a player got extremely mad at a bad line call (perhaps starting a fight with him/her), it would be MUCH more entertaining than the player throwing the match. However, if the person is really dedicated and can keep his focus, he might play even better and claim the victory.

Let me just make sure I make this clear. I don't supper intentional bad line calls one bit.

[DivingBirdie]

1 bad call is enough. sometimes i see more than one in a match. please kill the linesman. one thing strange about badminton, does anyoen do anything about bad line calls? i don't see fans running up and whacking the linesman

[Eurasian =--(O)]

man I love hockey fights!

[checkthemc]

Hey sorry for bringing this up again, but what if players could challenge line calls, perhaps one per 15 points or now the 21 point games. Just an idea.

[madbad]

Hey sorry for bringing this up again, but what if players could challenge line calls, perhaps one per 15 points or now the 21 point games. Just an idea.

More and more tennis tournaments are putting in Hawkeye, an optical device which watches the lines (Wimbledon is adopting it this year). I wonder if this is feasible for badminton. Don't know what the costs are though. In any case I believe only close calls can be referred to Hawkeye–perhaps someone can confirm this. This would certainly save challenges and root out corrupt linesmen.

Hehe, if a challenge system is adopted, can you imagine an NFL-style situation where the player (or coach from the sidelines) pulls out his orange (or whatever colour) flag and tosses it on the court, signalling a challenge. The umpire would then request an instant replay which only he can view. In the meantime IBF takes advantage of the break to run a few TV ads to put a few coins into their piggy bank. Upon return to the court, the TV camera zooms in to the umpire who has to make a definitive announcement of his judgement.. "Upon further review, the play stands. There was no conclusive evidence that the shuttle touched the line." Sigh! Chalk another one to the corrupt.

[eizmed]

Okay this may seem odd, but at international games/level I think bad line calls are good because they make the game more entertaining and show the mental toughness of the player.

I thought the answer to this question is pretty clear. Bad line call, unfair umpiring, dodgy seeding etc. etc is bad for EVERY SPORT. It may have the temporary effect of generating publicity and emotion as when people see that player / teams are cheating or cheated, coz they feel for them.

However, MOST PEOPLE would want a FAIR game, and if this unfairness is endemic or entrenched in the sport, most people shun that particular sport. It is coz in many sports, a single point may mean difference of few thousands or hundred of thousand / millioins of dollars, and many sportsperson / teams work so hard to get to where they are. And MOST people don't want the undeserved player / team to get the reward instead.

INCONSISTENT UMPIRING IS NOT GOOD FOR ANY SPORT. If you look at past history where any umpire, linesmen, player or teams was accused of taking a dive / bribe, the attendance often drops for that team / sport.

Just look at tennis, it is one of the most popular sports in the world with some of the biggest money involved, and yet it tries to implement modern technology (like the HAWKEYE madbad mentioned above) it to make it fairer, so are many other sports. So, bad line call DOES NOT make any sports more popular.

Ahh, how I would like to live in an era where badminton will be just as popular as tennis. I like tennis and love watching tennis but I am addicted to badminton.

:D

[MarkinJapan]

Are you still living in early 80 when Johny Mac scream and yell at the ref?

I love when that happens. I wish you could do it in badminton. As in squash for example. When Jon power would get a bad call, it was nothing but great entertainment.

[cooler]

Hidayat wins and hits out at badminton bosses by Richard Eaton

MADRID (AFP) - World badminton champion Taufik Hidayat began the defence of his title with a solid win and a message to the game's governing body to update itself and use cameras to eliminate line controversies.

"It's time the game became more professional about that," the Indonesian said after his 21-17, 21-17 win over Ng Wei of Hongkong in the first round in the Palacio de Deportes.

It was in Hongkong earlier in the month that Hidayat had been so upset by what he regarded as home town decisions in favour of Lin Dan, the world number one from China, that he picked up his bags and rackets and walked out after only five points.

He had threatened to do the same thing after controversial line calls in Korea last month, and now Hidayat made clear that he did not want to suffer any more of it.

"I don't want what happened at the Hong Kong Open to happen again," he said.

"I want to see cameras for line decisions, so that if anyone disputes a decision we can see whether it was right."

What Taufik had in mind was something similar to the Hawkeye computerized replays and appeals system, which produces an image from several cameras placed on different sides of the court.

This was used successfully at the US Open tennis championships in New York earlier this month, and Wimbledon is said to be considering it too. But at the moment the International Badminton Federation has no plans to follow suit.

Hidayat's straight games win over an opponent who had been seeded to reach the last 16 was nominally an upset, but Ng was only placed in the unfortunate position of having to face the world champion in the first round because Taufik was unseeded after having problems with his back which has restricted his tournament schedule this year.

At the moment Taufik seems fit, though he is not talking up his chances.

"I'm just going to take it one game at a time," he said.

"But I'm very happy with my game, and I pleased to say that I have no injury."

He next has a comfortable-looking match against Kestutis Navickas of Lithuania, but the man most likely to suffer from such a dangerous floater in the draw is Chen Hong, the former All-England champion.

Chen is seeded to reach the last eight, but may never make it as he should face Hidayat in the last 16, though the Chinese player was in emphatic form against Pedro Yang, despite the tricky drift, and overwhelmed the experienced Guatemalan 21-11, 21-9.

Later the other defending singles champion came through safely when Xie Xingfang eased her way into the tournament with a 21-14, 21-14 win over Kati Tolmoff of Estonia.

Meanwhile Julia Mann, who won a record eight English national women's singles titles, ended one career at the world championships here - and begins another in Paris on Monday.

The 34-year-old is not going to waste any time reminiscing about a distinguished career in which she won Commonwealth gold and bronze medals and reached the world's top ten.

Within only six days of her 21-11, 21-10 first round loss to Hwang Hye-Youn of Korea she will be starting as the French national women's coach, and taking the squad to the Czech international championships almost immediately.

"No time to look back - I'm just going to get straight on with a new life," Mann said.

[ctjcad]

Hidayat wins and hits out at badminton bosses by Richard Eaton

MADRID (AFP) - World badminton champion Taufik Hidayat began the defence of his title with a solid win and a message to the game's governing body to update itself and use cameras to eliminate line controversies.

"It's time the game became more professional about that," the Indonesian said after his 21-17, 21-17 win over Ng Wei of Hongkong in the first round in the Palacio de Deportes.

It was in Hongkong earlier in the month that Hidayat had been so upset by what he regarded as home town decisions in favour of Lin Dan, the world number one from China, that he picked up his bags and rackets and walked out after only five points.

He had threatened to do the same thing after controversial line calls in Korea last month, and now Hidayat made clear that he did not want to suffer any more of it.

"I don't want what happened at the Hong Kong Open to happen again," he said.

"I want to see cameras for line decisions, so that if anyone disputes a decision we can see whether it was right."

What Taufik had in mind was something similar to the Hawkeye computerized replays and appeals system, which produces an image from several cameras placed on different sides of the court.

This was used successfully at the US Open tennis championships in New York earlier this month, and Wimbledon is said to be considering it too. But at the moment the International Badminton Federation has no plans to follow suit.
thanks for sharing the article, cooler...rest of article snipped for brevity..
I've mentioned this in another thread...
It's true such technology could help in deciding certain calls..But in the end, even with such technology, we can't get all the calls our way or against us, most likely the calls will be evened out..

[ctjcad]

Bad line calls = it happens. And it'll happen to you sooner or later. :p

Just try not to worry about it and continue playing. :)
i concur, esp. the one highlighted in bold..:cool:

[franxon]

sports needs fairplay. so for bad calls, the less the better. Hawkeye system saw a wonderful success in US Open and there's no way back. More and more tennis events will use it. Besides, the american football has been using some appeal system long ago. Rumor says that football is going to do something like that too to help referees do their job better.

All this is welcome. As sports has never been so commercialized before. The result of a match means a lot (of money). After so much effeort input, players can accept if they really lose a game, but not that the result of a game is overturned by a bad call from a referee or judge. This does not show any respect to athletes' work. Athletes have prides too.

it also took a long time for ITF, ATP & WTA to make up their mind. and FIFA hasn't done anything solid about it yet. so, it doesn't matter if IBF is going to take up the Hawkeye or not. In fact, i would be very surprised if they do.

so the bottom line:

a. badminton SHOULD use camera-computer system for line call.
b. before that happens, let's just take human errors on line calls as part of badminton. but it is not necessarily ALWAYS a part of the game like the thread starter thinks.


P.S. Taufik quit his Hong Kong Open after 5 points all because of a bad call. Though i'm a huge fan of him. I never support his behavior like this. The audience is innocent, they paid their hard earned money to see you play. you gotta be fair to them.

This story from another perspective tells us how un-professional the sport of badminton is. I'm not saying Taufik isn't showing his professionism, that would be another issue.

what i'm saying is, the prize money of such a 5* open is so low that Taufik didn't need a second to hesitate before quit! imagine if the prize is as much as US Open, each game you paly, win or lose, you get paid multi thousand dollars, every round further the money increases, the champion gets a million plus. Will Taufik quit? You bet my ass!

[Jinryu]

Lol... it's true, i love hockey fights. Actually, in all instances, i only watch football when it's highlights of the best takedowns and baseball when someone gets hit by the ball :S

It's a terrible morbid hobby, but it is very entertaining. IT's there so i watch it.

However, i wouldn't WISH more of it to happen, those athletes are human beings too and are suffering for those incidents.

[cooler]

Lol... it's true, i love hockey fights. Actually, in all instances, i only watch football when it's highlights of the best takedowns and baseball when someone gets hit by the ball :S

It's a terrible morbid hobby, but it is very entertaining. IT's there so i watch it.

However, i wouldn't WISH more of it to happen, those athletes are human beings too and are suffering for those incidents.

so you're a fence sitter who watch from both sides of the fence?

[t3tsubo]

sorry if i missed anything, i just read the first post and the first sentence of the secound.
i agree. What are you smoking?
No. Its like gambling then.Players with less skill could win a close game even if its because the beter player isnt feeling well that day.