tensioning the crosses

[jerby]

hi there,

when tensionign the crosses is it safe to tension every two strings? I start at the top. tie off weave two strings and tension that. let teh tension stay on for about 10secs longer than usual and clamp it. weave two crosses, tension the last, weave two tension once, weave two tension once etc.

is there anything wrong with that? I found the tension to be just as even as with tensionign every cross...

[silentheart]

Hi Jerby,

The tension might be even for the cross strings. However, the earlier string should have lower tension due to the string friction. Just a little experiment fo you. Iassume you use drop weight machine. If so, after 10 sec for the string to settle, then raise the weight about 1 in (or 5 cm) and let it drop. You will see the weight is lower on the second try.

This might be related to your other post. Because you tension ever other cross, after few hr use, the 2 cross strings even out and you get the lower tension after 2 days.

[jerby]

Hi Jerby,

The tension might be even for the cross strings. However, the earlier string should have lower tension due to the string friction. Just a little experiment fo you. Iassume you use drop weight machine. If so, after 10 sec for the string to settle, then raise the weight about 1 in (or 5 cm) and let it drop. You will see the weight is lower on the second try.

This might be related to your other post. Because you tension ever other cross, after few hr use, the 2 cross strings even out and you get the lower tension after 2 days.
I'll try that. thanks!

just a side question (or two) are there any other ways of starting the crosses? could somebody post pictures on how to do a 'starting knot' and a 'tie off knot'? because I'm quite curious about how many ways there are to tie-off

[LazyBuddy]

I usually start in the middle, and alternate between the top and bottom halves. ;)

[lindanfan]

I'll try that. thanks!

just a side question (or two) are there any other ways of starting the crosses? could somebody post pictures on how to do a 'starting knot' and a 'tie off knot'? because I'm quite curious about how many ways there are to tie-off

if i was you i would purchase a stringers digest from the USRSA. IMHO it has everything for a complete novice to learn how to string and it lists the patterns for almost every racket... the best part is it tells you the string lenghts for it. i know your not a novce at all but it could still be useful and it shows 2 or 3 starting knots and tie off knots. i think it is around $40. i got a 2nd hand one for £20 and it's all i will ever need. (after all that you probably already have one :p )

[LazyBuddy]

if i was you i would purchase a stringers digest from the USRSA. IMHO it has everything for a complete novice to learn how to string and it lists the patterns for almost every racket... the best part is it tells you the string lenghts for it. i know your not a novce at all but it could still be useful and it shows 2 or 3 starting knots and tie off knots. i think it is around $40. i got a 2nd hand one for £20 and it's all i will ever need. (after all that you probably already have one :p )

Isn't that for tennis racket? If so, then the information such as string length and patterns are pretty useless. :rolleyes:

[jerby]

if i was you i would purchase a stringers digest from the USRSA. IMHO it has everything for a complete novice to learn how to string and it lists the patterns for almost every racket... the best part is it tells you the string lenghts for it. i know your not a novce at all but it could still be useful and it shows 2 or 3 starting knots and tie off knots. i think it is around $40. i got a 2nd hand one for £20 and it's all i will ever need. (after all that you probably already have one :p )
do you have a scanner?:D patterns aren't need, as far as rackets I've come across. (babo's, new-yy, regular-yy, sotx, carlton)
just teh tie-off would be great;)

[lindanfan]

do you have a scanner?:D patterns aren't need, as far as rackets I've come across. (babo's, new-yy, regular-yy, sotx, carlton)
just teh tie-off would be great;)

i will scan them in and then PM to you. shall i scan in the starting knots as well whilst i'm at it?:)

[jerby]

i will scan them in and then PM to you. shall i scan in the starting knots as well whilst i'm at it?:)
that would be great! can't wait to get a 1st class knotting lesson!

[Neil Nicholls]

there are some good pictures of knots already on the internet.
there are links to them somewhere in the forum
I'll have a look when I get some time (unless you can find them yourself)

[silentheart]

http://www.keohi.com/tennis/misc/knots.htm

[Quasimodo]

Isn't that for tennis racket? If so, then the information such as string length and patterns are pretty useless. :rolleyes:

The USRSA stringing guide actually includes patterns for squash, racquetball and badminton racquets as well. And the other books in the set contain very good general stringing information as well as business practices, if you happen to string for a living. So, no sarcasm is necessary.

HTH.

[DinkAlot]

http://www.keohi.com/tennis/misc/knots.htm

Thanks for the link, there are a few interesting tie knots there.

[Quasimodo]

Can someone try the Parnell knot? I haven't been very successful in using it to tie-off badminton strings. Works very well for tennis strings; but, when I try to use it for badminton, the knot tightens before it takes up practically any slack (of the untensioned piece) at all.

[DinkAlot]

Can someone try the Parnell knot? I haven't been very successful in using it to tie-off badminton strings. Works very well for tennis strings; but, when I try to use it for badminton, the knot tightens before it takes up practically any slack (of the untensioned piece) at all.

Same here. I don't think it works well with Badminton. It's great if you want to just tie a knot but if you try to pull to minimize slack, it tightens too early.

So far, the best knot I have found is...

...I guess I have to take a picture...be back in a few...

[Quasimodo]

The double half-hitch?

[DinkAlot]

The double half-hitch?

No, it's a modified DHH. Hard to explain, a picture is worth a thousand words. :)

[Pete LSD]

The awl comes in handy in performing the first knot of the pro knot. You can still pull on the string to tighten the knot.

[DinkAlot]

The awl comes in handy in performing the first knot of the pro knot. You can still pull on the string to tighten the knot.

Awls scare me. :eek: One too many "pops". :o :p :D :D

[Pete LSD]

Well, not everyone is as protein packed as you :D. So, the awl is quite adequate. Just try to avoid using the tensioner to tighten.


Awls scare me. :eek: One too many "pops". :o :p :D :D

[DinkAlot]

Well, not everyone is as protein packed as you :D. So, the awl is quite adequate. Just try to avoid using the tensioner to to tighten.

I never use the tensioner to tighten, my hand pull is more than adequate. In fact, on that note, I have to remember not to pull too hard. :p Recently I busted the string on Don's (UCLA Coach) MP100. I was tying the finishing knot and pulled too hard (with my hand) and snap, BG80 gone. It was kinda...OK, very embarassing. :o :o :p :D

[Pete LSD]

You are a special case :D. I think my fingers will hurt if I pull so hard on BG-80.

You get the strength of Guang Yu. You should use it wisely :-D.


I never use the tensioner to tighten, my hand pull is more than adequate. In fact, on that note, I have to remember not to pull too hard. :p Recently I busted the string on Don's (UCLA Coach) MP100. I was tying the finishing knot and pulled too hard and snap, BG80 gone. It was kinda...OK, very embarassing. :o :o :p :D

[DinkAlot]

You are a special case :D. I think my fingers will hurt if I pull so hard on BG-80.

Naw, it's easy, just wrap the string around your hand a few times, pull and...snap. :p

[Pete LSD]

What can I say? I am a stickman:p. It's string against bone.


Naw, it's easy, just wrap the string around your hand a few times, pull and...snap. :p

[fishmilk]

I find the parnell knot fine. I just pull as very hard away from the frame first, then pull the other way and tighten the knot as quickly as I can. I find it leaves very little slack and the knot is just so neat.

[Quasimodo]

Naw, it's easy, just wrap the string around your hand a few times, pull and...snap. :p

I'm with Pete. I may be able to pull one racquet with my bare hands. If I've to do more than one, forget it. :) Assuming a 1-piece job with double half-hitch knots, that's 4 total knots (i.e., 2 knots make 1 complete DHH). In a 2-piece job, it's 8. Ouch. :)

I use a starting clamp and I don't exactly pull on the tail, just 3 to 4 short tugs. And here's another "trick" that I read on a USRSA guide. This is especially noticeable when you tie off the mains: pull/tug on the tail, hold on to it then clamp off. This helps prevent the knot from disappearing into the grommet. In effect, the knot tightens from the other end when the slack evens out (after you clamp off). Seems to work for me.

[Pete LSD]

Yeap, I do that with the main tie off.


And here's another "trick" that I read on a USRSA guide. This is especially noticeable when you tie off the mains: pull/tug on the tail, hold on to it then clamp off. This helps prevent the knot from disappearing into the grommet. In effect, the knot tightens from the other end when the slack evens out (after you clamp off). Seems to work for me.

[Pete LSD]

I will LB how I use an awl to tighten the first knot of the Pro Knot. Even without using an awl, one can use a piler to tighten it. All you get to know is which string to pull.

[lindanfan]

i'm not sure what the knot i use is, i remember it from OUT:

O-over
U-under
T-through

i do that process once and tighten it with a pair of parallel pliers and then i repeat the process. it's the knot i was taught and is shown on the USRSA video.

[LazyBuddy]

Naw, it's easy, just wrap the string around your hand a few times, pull and...snap. :p

This method is a bit scary, as you can cut your hand. I wrap the string around a rubber stick or the leg of piler to pull. Easier and safer. ;)

[CoolDoo6]

Isn't it more effective to use the jaws on the plier to pull ?

[DinkAlot]

This method is a bit scary, as you can cut your hand. I wrap the string around a rubber stick or the leg of piler to pull. Easier and safer. ;)

Cut my hand? Ha, no way man. :p

[Pete LSD]

Your hand is the padded piler with the muscles to match :D!!!


Cut my hand? Ha, no way man. :p

[silentheart]

Man, Sir DinkALot, you must be really good at art of Iron Sand Palm.

[DinkAlot]

Man, Sir DinkALot, you must be really good at art of Iron Sand Palm.

No sir, but I'm pretty good at the "wrap the string around your hands twice and pull hard" technique. :p :D

[CoolDoo6]

No sir, but I'm pretty good at the "wrap the string around your hands twice and pull hard" technique. :p :D

Your hard smashing probably gave you a very tough hand. If I were to do what you suggest, my hand would be severed in half. I think this thread should be rated 18 to protect the minors.

[Matt]

Jerby:

I happen ask my stringer about tentioning every other string since you brought it up. He said the stringer should string evey string. This is because if it's done every two, there will be friction loss. The other reason is in reality, the tention of the racket will not be accurate because it will be off(lower tention).

People have claimed that constant tention pull would able to get around it, but the issue would be the enlongation since it will be on every two instead of every one.

[LazyBuddy]

Jerby:

I happen ask my stringer about tentioning every other string since you brought it up. He said the stringer should string evey string. This is because if it's done every two, there will be friction loss. The other reason is in reality, the tention of the racket will not be accurate because it will be off(lower tention).

People have claimed that constant tention pull would able to get around it, but the issue would be the enlongation since it will be on every two instead of every one.

Consistant pulling machine works well on main if you have to tension 2 piece at a time. However, with the friction, it will take much longer settle time, and lose much more tension, once it comes to cross. ;)

[taneepak]

Consistant pulling machine works well on main if you have to tension 2 piece at a time. However, with the friction, it will take much longer settle time, and lose much more tension, once it comes to cross. ;)

If what you say is true, then why not try to tension 3 or 4 pieces of the mains in one pull? It will save a lot of pulling.

[silentheart]

If what you say is true, then why not try to tension 3 or 4 pieces of the mains in one pull? It will save a lot of pulling.

There is a balance between the time saved for less pull vs time wait for less pull. The time to wait for a 3 or more strings to settle is much much longer then tensioning 1 at a time when a drop weight machine is used. If I use a electric constant pull machine, it takes 1 pull to get the same tension on both strings. How do I know this? I pluck both strings and they gives me the same tone. I never tried 3 strings so I do not know if 3 or more strings will have same effect.

[CoolDoo6]

If what you say is true, then why not try to tension 3 or 4 pieces of the mains in one pull? It will save a lot of pulling.

Might as well go the whole hog and just tension the final 2 pieces on either side. That will save even more time. The correct tension to apply in this scenario would be:

desired string tension + X

where X is the additional tension required so that when the tension of the final 2 pieces are propagated to the other pieces, the string bed would attain the desired string tension as a whole. I have no idea what X should be. Perhaps those interested in saving time would like to experiment and find out what X is. There is gold in them X's.

[Neil Nicholls]

The time to wait for a 3 or more strings to settle is much much longer then tensioning 1 at a time when a drop weight machine is used.
What is your reasoning behind this?
Why isn't the time to settle proportional to the number of strings?
i.e. 1 string => time=x
2 string => time=2x
3 string => time=3x
If you pre-stretch how does it affect this time?

[taneepak]

I think pulling two or more strings, whether on the mains or crosses, with one pull is utter nonsense. It can never come close to pulling each individual string.
If you are a perfectionist, you might want to increase tension slightly on the longer strings vis-a-vis the shorter strings. This applies equally if you use more tension on an iso racquet vs an oval racquet, because at the same tensions an oval racquet will feel tighter than an iso racquet due to its shorter strings.
Now pulling two strings in one pull is something of a joke, no?

[silentheart]

What is your reasoning behind this?
Why isn't the time to settle proportional to the number of strings?
i.e. 1 string => time=x
2 string => time=2x
3 string => time=3x
If you pre-stretch how does it affect this time?

My experiments shows for drop weight machine is more like
1 string = 15~20 sec
2 strings = 25~35 sec ( I tension for 10 sec, clamp, then tension again)
3 strings > 1 min (I tension 3 times)

These are just my observations from my experiment. There is no scientific reason behind it.

[LazyBuddy]

I think pulling two or more strings, whether on the mains or crosses, with one pull is utter nonsense. It can never come close to pulling each individual string.


I am not trying to promote pulling 2 or more strings in 1 shot. However, I do believe it will work better for main than crosses, due to less friction (between string vs. string, string vs. gromments). :rolleyes:

[silentheart]

I am not trying to promote pulling 2 or more strings in 1 shot. However, I do believe it will work better for main than crosses, due to less friction (between string vs. string, string vs. gromments). :rolleyes:

I tension my racquet every string, main or cross for more advanced player. I only tension (16~18lb) every other main on Jr. racquets for the very young kids. And yes, their strings does break after long time abuse too. Like LB, I do not advacate pulling 2 mains at one time for most of the raquets.