Team Indonesia in Chinese Taipei Open

[badMania]

Just got the info from Bola...apparently, the top doubles Luluk/Alvent and Kido/Hendra will not be sent to the Chinese Taipei Open due to their bad results in the Indonesia and Singapore Open. Sony also has not recovered from his injury.

Yet another bad decision taken by the PBSI. I thought both pairs at least reach the semi-final in IO? And didn't Choong/Lee and Chan/Koo also lose early last week in the SO?

[taufik-ist]

Just got the info from Bola...apparently, the top doubles Luluk/Alvent and Kido/Hendra will not be sent to the Chinese Taipei Open due to their bad results in the Indonesia and Singapore Open. Sony also has not recovered from his injury.

Yet another bad decision taken by the PBSI. I thought both pairs at least reach the semi-final in IO? And didn't Choong/Lee and Chan/Koo also lose early last week in the SO?

punish and reward

PBSI must be very dissapointed, becos they lost to lower-ranked players in so 2006, they played worst.

i hope they send sigit/flandi and taufik :D

[badMania]

punish and reward

PBSI must be very dissapointed, becos they lost to lower-ranked players in so 2006, they played worst.

i hope they send sigit/flandi and taufik :D

Didn't Choong/Lee lose to the same pair in the SO? Flandy/Sigit and Taufik are certainly not going to be in Taipei next week.

[taufik-ist]

Didn't Choong/Lee lose to the same pair in the SO? Flandy/Sigit and Taufik are certainly not going to be in Taipei next week.

they may have lost becos of 'bad luck'
and PBSi never cares about bad luck, they just want 'win and win' results
and they don't give a tolerant and they should act more flexible if their player lose to a lower-ranked player, like BAM do :D


they will only send 2 players in TO 2006, nova/butet and new women double :o

[EastDevil]

they may have lost becos of 'bad luck'
and PBSi never cares about bad luck, they just want 'win and win' results
and they don't give a tolerant and they should act more flexible if their player lose to a lower-ranked player, like BAM do :D


they will only send 2 players in TO 2006, nova/butet and new women double :o

Why is it that so many indonesian fans always like to attribute defeats to all kinds of funny excuses except for the simple fact that they lost because they didn't perform? Bad luck??? The indonesians I know doesn't think this way, so is this irrational behaviour only attributed to certain fans?

You lost because you did not perform and the opponents performed better. Its as simple as that. Bad luck... old injuries... wind blowing in the wrong direction... sun rose at the wrong time... stepped on an insect... blah blah blah...

[streamyx]

forgive me to said that, Indonesia team is no longer what they were last time. I believe is due to the country political and of couse the internal issue that are facing in their country.. The only shuttle that is still on par is Taufik, not even their Double player.

[indra]

forgive me to said that, Indonesia team is no longer what they were last time. I believe is due to the country political and of couse the internal issue that are facing in their country.. The only shuttle that is still on par is Taufik, not even their Double player.

AGree with you!

[indra]

forgive me to said that, Indonesia team is no longer what they were last time. I believe is due to the country political and of couse the internal issue that are facing in their country.. The only shuttle that is still on par is Taufik, not even their Double player.

If I were the Head of PBSI:

I would change of the coaches:

Singles Men: Mulyo Handoyo and Tong SIn Fu
Mens DOuble: Christian and Rexy
Mixed DOubles: Richard Mainaky
Women S and D: Hire Chinese Coaches

I guarantee...at least 3 years from now INA will replace China's position

[EastDevil]

If I were the Head of PBSI:

I would change of the coaches:

Singles Men: Mulyo Handoyo and Tong SIn Fu
Mens DOuble: Christian and Rexy
Mixed DOubles: Richard Mainaky
Women S and D: Hire Chinese Coaches

I guarantee...at least 3 years from now INA will replace China's position

If you were the head of PBSI, indonesian badminton would be finished. And the PBSI bank accounts would have all their money missing.

[verinee@yey]

[quote=EastDevil]If you were the head of PBSI, indonesian badminton would be finished. And the PBSI bank accounts would have all their money missing.[/q :D :D :D :D:D

[indra]

If you were the head of PBSI, indonesian badminton would be finished. And the PBSI bank accounts would have all their money missing.

If finished, start all over again:D
If money missing, raise money again:D

[badMania]

Having looked at the draws of the Chinese Taipei Open, its confirmed that Team Indonesia is only going to be represented by Nova Widianto/Lilyana Natsir, Lita Nurlita/Vita Marissa, and Tommy Sugiarto. As for non-Pelatnas, Rian Sukmawan/Eng Hian will be the sole representative. Very very disappointing....from an initial list of 25 players to only 7!!

[apontoh]

Having looked at the draws of the Chinese Taipei Open, its confirmed that Team Indonesia is only going to be represented by Nova Widianto/Lilyana Natsir, Lita Nurlita/Vita Marissa, and Tommy Sugiarto. As for non-Pelatnas, Rian Sukmawan/Eng Hian will be the sole representative. Very very disappointing....from an initial list of 25 players to only 7!!

If I was head of Pelatnas, I would send our WS line for them to gain more international tournament experience! They will never, ever break the top 25 if they don't play enough.

[EastDevil]

If finished, start all over again:D
If money missing, raise money again:D

Don't be selfish... Remember to share some with me. :D

[EastDevil]

If I was head of Pelatnas, I would send our WS line for them to gain more international tournament experience! They will never, ever break the top 25 if they don't play enough.

It doesn't work that way. In fact, it would be bad.

It has to be the competition for places that will drive them. If they always get the opportunity to be sent to the tournaments, why would they want to work harder? What drives them forward is that they might get replaced by better players for these opportunities.

[ctjcad]

for this discussion, we are still waiting for an *answer*..:p:rolleyes:


If I was head of Pelatnas, I would send our WS line for them to gain more international tournament experience! They will never, ever break the top 25 if they don't play enough.

It doesn't work that way. In fact, it would be bad.

It has to be the competition for places that will drive them. If they always get the opportunity to be sent to the tournaments, why would they want to work harder? What drives them forward is that they might get replaced by better players for these opportunities.
Hmm, here's my 2 cents:
This topic has been brought up and discussed before, but i will re-chew it again with the rest of you. :p I agree with both apontoh's and EastDevil's POVs(point of view), could be a combination of both. Also, people aged with time, so a regeneration cycle is bound to happen. But IMO, there's something more deeper than those. Something to do with upper mgt and how there seemed to be a lack of talented players out there. If there are, then they could bail out ship from Pelatnas. And perhaps, as the most common denominator, *money*.:p ;) :rolleyes:
Yes, sure there could be no reason for PBSI to send those players overseas if they can't accomplish any success, let alone being eliminated in the Qualifying Round, I can understand. Changing the entire coaching staff sounds like a good idea, but it doesn't always work. The players themselves are the ones performing out there, as the coach can only do so much..:rolleyes:
But if those people are not being sent to play in international tournaments, may it be 1* or 6*, then they will never get the necessary high class exposure for their game. How will they be exposed and get the necessary experience?? Also, if those young players that are currently being trained at Pelatnas are not being sent out, then why are they being kept there. I mean, i'm sure PBSI recruited those players for something right??Not just an empty promise of this and that when they were recruited?!?!
There are lots of examples for these, even for current or ex-players-ie. Tommy Sugiarto who left briefly but then returned; or how abt Taufik's incident a few yrs. back; then how abt the ex-greats Tony G., Mia A., Rexy, Minarti T., Halim and Eng Hian/Flandy who left briefly to play in UK but came back; and other players. I know some did it for personal reason, but why did they, who were still in their prime, went overseas to play/coach instead of in Indonesia??..And why only a selected few are still remaining in Indonesia..There must be a reason why for all of this, correct??..:rolleyes:

[maa2003]

no money no honey lah ........

n for sure ......... Indonesia will never replace China for the next 10 years ....... if you know they way China trains the young generations ........

you can see China in the Women side ......... the 1st layer are still playing, the 2nd layer also performed well.
but Indonesia ...... from Verawaty to Ivanna Lie is OK ........ but have to wait very long before Susi Susanti came ..... there is a hope when Mia Audina came ....... but later after Mia went to Netherlands .... no replacement with similar performance.

in the men side, after Rudy Hartono then came Liem Swie King then again Icuk Sugiarto ...... they still can compete with China. After that also takes time before Alan Budikusuma generation who dominated the court. Alan, Eddy Kurniawan, Ardy BW, Joko Supriyanto then Hariyanto Arbi, Hendrawan, and now Taufik ......... but after Taufik ....... sorry no more can compete well with China eventhough still have Sony DK and Simon Santoso (the last 2 Thomas Cup as a good example).
Eventhough at the Men-doubles still OK, but Sigit/Flandy is old already.

Even worst in the Mixed-double ........ took 25 years after Christian/Imelda to Nova/Lilyana ........

just my 2 cents.

[taufik-ist]

indonesia wheel of fortune is spinning, but still getting a bad luck....:)

once indonesia find a good player, he/she will be very talented player

[taufik-ist]

Why is it that so many indonesian fans always like to attribute defeats to all kinds of funny excuses except for the simple fact that they lost because they didn't perform? Bad luck??? The indonesians I know doesn't think this way, so is this irrational behaviour only attributed to certain fans?

You lost because you did not perform and the opponents performed better. Its as simple as that. Bad luck... old injuries... wind blowing in the wrong direction... sun rose at the wrong time... stepped on an insect... blah blah blah...

yeah... they just play worst :D

what i mean here,

BAM is more tolerant with their players, BAM still send them to next tournamnet altough they play worst in a tournament before

[ctjcad]

no money no honey lah ........

n for sure ......... Indonesia will never replace China for the next 10 years ....... if you know they way China trains the young generations ........
i concur with this also and there lies the difference.....success starts at the top(incl. mgmt, coaching) and trickles down to players. As we all can see, i can guess NONE of CHN players see themselves as "higher above anyone else", be it MS to XD, all are treated the same, no special treatment etc; unlike the current case with PBSI & Taufik...:p:rolleyes:


you can see China in the Women side ......... the 1st layer are still playing, the 2nd layer also performed well.
but Indonesia ...... from Verawaty to Ivanna Lie is OK ........ but have to wait very long before Susi Susanti came ..... there is a hope when Mia Audina came ....... but later after Mia went to Netherlands .... no replacement with similar performance.

in the men side, after Rudy Hartono then came Liem Swie King then again Icuk Sugiarto ...... they still can compete with China. After that also takes time before Alan Budikusuma generation who dominated the court. Alan, Eddy Kurniawan, Ardy BW, Joko Supriyanto then Hariyanto Arbi, Hendrawan, and now Taufik ......... but after Taufik ....... sorry no more can compete well with China eventhough still have Sony DK and Simon Santoso (the last 2 Thomas Cup as a good example).
Eventhough at the Men-doubles still OK, but Sigit/Flandy is old already.

Even worst in the Mixed-double ........ took 25 years after Christian/Imelda to Nova/Lilyana ........

just my 2 cents.
INA's MSs throughout history has been the only consistent "challenge" to CHN's MSs. Other than that field, the only other one is MD. As for the rest of the field, they are not still up to par to CHN's dominance, esp. WS and WD in terms of history. BTW, on the the XD field, there was also the XD pair of Trikush and Minarti Timur who put their stamp on INA's XD field with their success from mid 90s-early 2000s(although they didn't win any Olympic or World Championship title). Personally, eventhough the XD pair of Nova/Lilyana won the WC last yr, i think they were quite fortunate(ie. injuries to NathanR and GL/ZJ missing out); IMO, they've probably reached their max potential(esp. Nova).

[taufik-ist]

BAM is well-organized, they are better than PBSI, but malaysia's still below indoenesia :D

[badMania]

BTW, on the the XD field, there was also the XD pair of Trikush and Minarti Timur who put their stamp on INA's XD field with their success from mid 90s-early 2000s(although they didn't win any Olympic or World Championship title). Personally, eventhough the XD pair of Nova/Lilyana won the WC last yr, i think they were quite fortunate(ie. injuries to NathanR and GL/ZJ missing out); IMO, they've probably reached their max potential(esp. Nova).

We begin to see a resurgence in the XD field. Albeit Nova/Butet were lucky to win the WC last year without beating a single top team. Other pairs did the job for them. I believe they will win some more titles, hopefully an Asian Games medal. As for the Olympics, its still 2 years down the road.

Anggun/Vita have impressed in the MO, beating Lee Jae Jin/Lee Hyo Jung. Rizal/Greysia and Lingga/Yulianti also show potential of being Team Indonesia's future XD top pairs. Hopefully, all these are not just one-off performances. With Richard Mainaky still in charge of the XD (and now WD), we will definitely see more glories ahead.

As for MS, we simply rely too much on Taufik. Tommy Sugiarto is still too young (only 18), but, he does give us some glimmer of hope. Hopefully, he will mature in the next 2-3 years.

[apontoh]

As for MS, we simply rely too much on Taufik. Tommy Sugiarto is still too young (only 18), but, he does give us some glimmer of hope. Hopefully, he will mature in the next 2-3 years.

don't forget that the top players usually start very young , e.g. Taufik and Susi Susanti. Both "came out" before their 20th birthday