According to JawaPos website today (05/09/06) reported PBSI will prepare a pleading for INA's ace shuttler TH (following his withdrawal in QF-round HkOpen/06) if TH get sanction from IBF Discipline Commission. PBSI also received an e-mail from Bdm Care Community in HKG that said TH must face hard sanction for his action.So far,TH keep silence about this case. Well, I guess PBSI will not take any punishment with the 'golden boy' although TH is clearly misconduct in that tourney.Why? Because TH is an asset for INA's bdm. Desperate answer, maybe...
well, well, what do you know..Rather than disciplining his actions, which is the correct way to go, they(PBSI) are going to plead his case??..Way to go, and way to give an example to their younger players..Another funny thing i no ticed is what i've highlighted in bold(ie. Taufik keeping quiet??why can't he offer a simple apology for his actions??).:confused: :rolleyes: :p

well, well, what do you know..Rather than disciplining his actions, which is the correct way to go, they(PBSI) are going to plead his case??..Way to go, and way to give an example to their younger players..Another funny thing i no ticed is what i've highlighted in bold(ie. Taufik keeping quiet??why can't he offer a simple apology for his actions??).:confused: :rolleyes: :p

PSBI is supporting their star player! What else could they do? They really need instant replay for badminton now.

Interesting... Was it actually in or out?

Should we trust 2 trusted BC members or TH?

I guess we will never know :(
it's interesting indeed, esp. after reading this article..for some reason, there was a bit more to the story, of course Cheung and red00ecstrat can only see and not hear the entire conversation(between the parties involved)..:p
I'll provide another translation below, if you guys won't mind..:p

can share the file? i haven't seen that match... thx

it's already being shared on the badminton video sharing forum. have a look in there.

Taufik Protes, Taufik Mundur
Pertandingan baru berjalan lima poin. Namun, keunggulan 4-1 atas Taufik Hidayat itu itu sudah cukup bagi pemain Cina, Lin Dan, maju ke semifinal Hong Kong Terbuka. Kenapa bisa begitu?
Partai perempatfinal bintang lima itu berjalan panas. Pada kedudukan 3-1, pukulan bintang Cina itu melebar di kanan lapangan Taufik. Menurut pelatih Mulyo Handoyo, yang duduk di belakang lapangan, jatuhnya kok itu sekitar 10 cm di luar garis putih. Penjaga garis pun membuka tangan yang berarti bola keluar. Lin Dan pun dari gerak tubuh menyadari bahwa pukulannya melebar.
Saat Taufik bersiap hendak melakukan servis, wasit menyebut angka untuk Lin Dan. Pasalnya sang penjaga garis kemudian meralat bahwa pukulan Lin Dan masuk.
Taufik protes ke wasit. Pertandingan pun terhenti sekitar 10 menit. Bahkan, dia kemudian mengusulkan kepada referee agar diulang pada kedudukan 3-1. Artinya, tak ada yang diuntungkan dan dirugikan dengan keputusan penjaga garis yang tidak tegas ini.
Namun, referee turnamen bersikukuh kedudukan tetap 4-1. Bahkan, dia menyebut kalau Taufik tidak mau menerima keputusan itu, ya WO saja.
“Taufik kok ditantang. Ya, dia kemudian memilih WO dengan mengemasi raket dan menyalami Lin Dan,” tutur Mulyo.
Taufik sendiri, hingga Minggu (3/9) malam, tidak bisa dihubungi. Dia tidak mau mengangkat telepon selulernya. Hanya teman yang mengaku bernama Christian yang mau mengangkat. “Taufik sedang ada acara. Silakan telepon lagi,” tuturnya

Taufik protested & Taufik withdrew
The match had just began 5 points in. But his 4-1 lead over Taufik Hidayat was enough for the CHN player, Lin Dan, to advance to the semifinal of the Hong Kong Open. Why did that happen??
The 1st set of the quarterfinal was hotly contested. With the score at 3-1, a shot delivered by the CHN star went wide right of Taufik's court. According to coach Mulyo Handoyo, who sat behind the court, the shuttle landed 10cm(abt 4 inches) outside of the white line. The linejudge also opened her hands signaling that the shuttle has landed out. Even Lin Dan's body language indicated that his shot had gone wide.
When Taufik was about to serve, the umpire said the point was for Lin Dan. Apparently the linejudge had corrected the call and that Lin Dan's shot was called in.
Taufik then protested to the umpire. The match had to be stopped for 10 minutes. He even requested to the tournament's referee to re-start the count at 3-1. Which meant, there was no advantage nor disadvantage with the linejudge's decision which wasn't firm.
However, the tournament referee kept the decision and score at 4-1. He even mentioned that if Taufik did not accept this decision, he could just do a WO(walk-over).
"Why was Taufik challenged? Yes, he then chose to WO while he clenched his racket and shook Lin Dan's hand", said Mulyo.
Taufik himself, until Sunday (Sep. 3rd) night, couldn't be contacted. He didn't want to pick up his cell phone. Rather only a friend of his, named Christian, who will pick up the phone. "Taufik is in the middle of something. Please call back", he said.

Anyways, for those of you guys who have watched the video, i'm sure you guys will have your say.;)

somebody is lying or the linelady is totally blind.:D

PSBI is supporting their star player! What else could they do? They really need instant replay for badminton now.
I understand they are trying to "support" their player, esp. their star player..However, IMO, "supporting" him by allowing what he did which was unsportsmanlike and disrespectful, is not supporting??..Don't PBSI feel embarrassed by what happened?? What will the younger players think and feel abt this action/non-action by PBSI??Not even a disciplinary action??..If that's the case, it seemed like PBSI "fear" any backlash to them(which is quite sad). Then do you wonder who is really in charge of PBSI?? Is it Taufik or the PBSI brass. So what if Taufik gets upset and threatens to leave PBSI?? Let him leave and go play somewhere else.
Perhaps maybe that's what's lacking all these yrs. with PBSI. Maybe that's why the quality and level of PBSI badminton has gone down in recent yrs??..And most importantly, where's the integrity and respect for the game??..
I thought badminton(well, all sporting games) was a sport of "sportsmanship, respect and integrity"??..Don't the words sport and sportsmanship relate to each other??..:confused: :rolleyes: ;)

In any case, it seems there were many protests from players at HO, even nice guy like LCW reacted the way I never seen before and LD did the same at the finals. I have to say this is not purely coincidence,...the tournament was simply badly made in HK. Badminton being the fastest racquet sports, still using the most traditional approach in line judging, isn't time for IBF to make a change???

it's already being shared on the badminton video sharing forum. have a look in there.
sorry, do you mind guiding me to the link??..is it this one:
Hong_Kong_Open_2006_-_MS_QF_-_Lin_Dan_Vs._Kenneth_Jonassen.rmvb ??..
If so, then title must've confused me as QF should've been LD vs. Taufik and SF should've been LD vs. KJ...:confused: ;)

Wow, I wonder what IBF going to do now, still keep their mouth shut or announce something soon. This article is directly challenging the umpire of the match. If it's true, I don't think it's fair for the umpire to tell TH to WO. Until I heard the audio recording, I don't think any umpire would say such thing to a player, especially when there is a conflict.

HK Open is very interesting. Definitely going to fly over to watch one day. :D

CTJCAD and Cooler,

You guys are right on the money. If PBSI defends TH's action that is a disgraceful act. And if IBF doesn't deal with this issue fairly and sternly then they are a disgrace to the sport. I think all line judges should stop working if IBF doesn't deal with this issue quickly. This really would be a slap on the face on the line judging community who do a tremendous job considering their work is 100% volunteer work, and they pay for their trvel 100% also except sometimes they are given accommodation at a cheap motel. Let the players call all of their lines, and see what chaos that will create at 6 star tournaments.

Actually, line judges threatened with a protest to sit out at the Dutch or the German Open (in 2003 I believe) when the umpires were given the right to over rule line judges' calls. Finally they did their usual job...I think this situation is worse than that, especially condidering TH was not even given a yellow card for his actions on court.

i believe pbsi reaction was quick and predictable. First they loves their cushy over staffed jobs and don't want to rock the boat. Second reason sealed the stance taken; taufik's father in law is a director of the sport council. It's a no brainer decision for pbsi. They dont even need to wait and see what ibf gonna do first. This make ibf's decision, if any, even harder to me.

I think BAM and danish badminton should register their displeasure to the ibf regarding this. It is taufik's W/O that distorted the MS final outcome. If LD had a tough match with taufik or even LD got eliminated (KJ came close doing it), the MS final outcome maybe a lot different. Each new encounter between ld and lcw, lcw stamina improved more and more each time. Could the extra rest ld enjoyed helped squeak by lcw??? I say there is a possibility.

Wow, I wonder what IBF going to do now, still keep their mouth shut or announce something soon. This article is directly challenging the umpire of the match. If it's true, I don't think it's fair for the umpire to tell TH to WO. Until I heard the audio recording, I don't think any umpire would say such thing to a player, especially when there is a conflict.

HK Open is very interesting. Definitely going to fly over to watch one day. :D

Agree. HKO is unusual. (This being the first time I have watched it)
One, the umpires and service judges seemed to be all from Hong Kong, which essentially means China.
Two, the umpires' behaviour indicated they did not know that umpires now have the right to overrule bad line calls or they were unwilling to do so. (LCW had two bad line calls against him in the final; the first one was 50/50 ,so he let it go, the second one was CLEARLY IN, so he did the unusual - appeal to the umpire for an overrule.The umpire could have overruled because he was in a position to clearly see the shuttle land, it was right at his doorstep, so to speak. He did not, which meant he was either sleeping or not interested to uphold the integrity of the match. In other words, a housekeeper or wimp of an umpire, the worst kind.
Three, the service judge has the final say on shuttle change, in a sly way and the umpire will close one eye.
Pity. Otherwise it would have been the best Open so far this year. One thing's for sure. TH won't be back and maybe LCW should play in Singapore Open and skip HKO instead.

So is IBF going to have any sort of punishment for Taufik for leaving the court? (Which voliated one of the laws of badminton.. )

*edit.
And it was only 3-1 or 4-1.. There was a possibility that he can catch up and win the match... What bad sport...

..hmm, for those of you who knew or have followed the last yr or so, that was/is the system PBSI has been implementing in "judging" or "gaging" the players that have been sent overseas to compete...

However, not only with this Taufik incident, but with his results at the 2 tourneys, will PBSI implement the same PUNISH and REWARDS system to him??...
Does anyone still know if this system is still in effect??..I guess with the recent developments and news, at least for Taufik, this system doesn't apply to him...:p :rolleyes: ;)

So there is action and of course reaction. It is already good that Taufik has shown that there is needs to change and modify which is not yet done by the IBF. Let it he (Taufik) be the victim or the villan but it's all for the good of badminton game and of course for all of us (watcher).

Imposing (heavy) sanctions on TH is crazy!!! Agree with rhinovinda that he has shown what has not been done by IBF.....TH has waken up the IBF to do what it has not done yet...

If in the future IBF finally uses an instant video replay system to minimize controversies, we all must thank TH, not punish him. :D

Imposing (heavy) sanctions on TH is crazy!!! Agree with rhinovinda that he has shown what has not been done by IBF.....TH has waken up the IBF to do what it has not done yet...

If in the future IBF finally uses an instant video replay system to minimize controversies, we all must thank TH, not punish him. :D
well, if taufik explains his action why he did what he did, and what was really said and by whom, I think more people would sympathize his cause. So far pbsi had said it's out by 10cm. I think ibf should interview the umpire and lindjudge as well to clear the air. Something is not adding up right here.

Update news from JawaPos web (06/09/06) : PBSI is certain that TH will free of IBF's sanction because his incident in HkO last week is usual condition which has often happened with any shuttlers not is the first time.In fact (so far), IBF never give any sanction except stating a misconduct bdm player lost although the match has not finished yet.PBSI and officials were held meeting yesterday at Jakarta City Hall where PBSI Chairman Sutiyoso just asked HkO result and reason why TH refused to continue his QF-match against LD.That meeting only spent approx.30 min. without TH's attendance and didn't discuss seriously about the sanction. Well,it seems TH is really relax and doesn't care with the issue!

WEll i am not at all surprised by his bad behavious on the court. hes so arrogant. he thinks that he is the best badminton player in the whole universe. i often notice his comments regarding other players, especially in recent Thomas Cup, that the Chinese team won. He said that the real champion is the one who wins the olympics and the world badminton comps. How sad. I remember how he used to create problems for PBSI, he often threatened to quit PBSI. When things didnt go his way. PBSI should have kicked him out. I dont care whether he plays badminton or not, there a alot of very talented players around and IBF should make him pay a fine and reprimand him for his actions.

I'm actually quite surprised at the boderline line calls this year. There are some explanations worth considering -

1) the judging is biased - Difficult suggestion. Indonesia have won the Thomas Cup in HK in the past even against China.

2) line judges have got worse - alternatively the standard of play has gone up so that the smashes are really very difficult to judge compared with 10-15 years ago.

3) players are becoming more vocal.


As for the assertion of 10cm out - this must be an exaggeration


the umpires and service judges seemed to be all from Hong Kong, which essentially means China. It has always been the case. Some of the umpires go to other countries for other tournaments.

Two, the umpires' behaviour indicated they did not know that umpires now have the right to overrule bad line calls or they were unwilling to do so. (LCW had two bad line calls against him in the final; the first one was 50/50 ,so he let it go, the second one was CLEARLY IN, so he did the unusual - appeal to the umpire for an overrule.The umpire could have overruled because he was in a position to clearly see the shuttle land, it was right at his doorstep, so to speak. He did not, which meant he was either sleeping or not interested to uphold the integrity of the match. In other words, a housekeeper or wimp of an umpire, the worst kind.
Three, the service judge has the final say on shuttle change, in a sly way and the umpire will close one eye.Wimp could be the correct word. I haven't seen the finals, though.

Cheung, do see the finals and tell us what you think.It's pretty rivetting until the umpire came on the screen. You might then find a stronger word than wimp. BTW, our Singapore Open is first class; with neutral umpires and sj except when they have their star MS play against a Malaysian MS (Susilo vs KBH : Singapore Umpire--- ha , ha!)

what does WO mean

what does WO mean
walkover.......................

I thought WO means Walk OUT

I think IBF may penalize Taufik..also Umpire could not challenge Taufik by saying..if you do not accept it..you can do WO...actually umpire supervisor should stepped in and helped solve the dispute...
If linesmen are not sure..Umpire can play the points from begining..meaning 3-1 for LD, not 4-1..I think it is fair..

what does WO mean
walkover or to forfeit a match or to let your opponent win without finishing
the match

10cm? too much exaggeration. More like 1 cm, i believe, may be it's a typo in that article.

Update news from JawaPos web (06/09/06) : PBSI is certain that TH will free of IBF's sanction because his incident in HkO last week is usual condition which has often happened with any shuttlers not is the first time.In fact (so far), IBF never give any sanction except stating a misconduct bdm player lost although the match has not finished yet.PBSI and officials were held meeting yesterday at Jakarta City Hall where PBSI Chairman Sutiyoso just asked HkO result and reason why TH refused to continue his QF-match against LD.That meeting only spent approx.30 min. without TH's attendance and didn't discuss seriously about the sanction. Well,it seems TH is really relax and doesn't care with the issue!
Hmm, i personally don't know/recall from the top of my head, but can anyone confirm this comment, highlighted in bold above, by PBSI?? And since they say it's "usual condition", can anyone bring some past events similar to this one?? Where a player disagrees with a questionable linecall and just forfeit the match??..:confused:
Another funny thing about the report is that, didn't Taufik "violate" a rule that's in IBF rule book (ie. misconduct by a player who lost although the match has not finished yet)??..If they(PBSI) don't know, perhaps we can show them the rule(s)/clause(s)..:p :rolleyes:

I think IBF may penalize Taufik..also Umpire could not challenge Taufik by saying..if you do not accept it..you can do WO...actually umpire supervisor should stepped in and helped solve the dispute...
If linesmen are not sure..Umpire can play the points from begining..meaning 3-1 for LD, not 4-1..I think it is fair..
hmm, can someone provide us the rule from the IBF Rule book on this??(ie. dropper of anyone else)..thx

In any case, it seems there were many protests from players at HO, even nice guy like LCW reacted the way I never seen before and LD did the same at the finals. I have to say this is not purely coincidence,...the tournament was simply badly made in HK. Badminton being the fastest racquet sports, still using the most traditional approach in line judging, isn't time for IBF to make a change???

Another thing to consider, is that with rally scoring to 21, each point gets much more significant so a few "missed" line-calls may be the deciding factor in close games..

So I guess this is another reason to suggest going back to 15x3!!

/Twobeer

(mod: merged two threads of practically the same topic.)

hmm, can someone provide us the rule from the IBF Rule book on this??(ie. dropper of anyone else)..thx

There is IBF guidance and rules on how to handle a situation where a "line judge did not see the shuttlecock landing well enough to make a call (unsighted line judge)". The line judge then closes his eyes with his hands indicating he did not see the shuttle landing to make the IN or OUT call. But, the line judge must clearly indicate this by putting his hands in front of his eyes. Then if the umpire saw the shuttle landing clearly, he can make the call IN or OUT. If the umpire also did not clearly see where the shuttle landed then he will instruct the players to play a "LET"; i.e., replay the point.

However, this was not the case in the point of contention here. Line judge indicated that he clearly saw the shuttle to be "IN". Although this was a correction to his previous call of "OUT", still, the "IN" is his call and that stays as the final call unless the umpire over rules the line judge with his call of "OUT". Otherwise the line judge's call is final, and the umpire can't replay that as a "LET".

Some people are grasping for straw, where the right thing to do is to follow the rules and laws that govern all the players, umpires, line judges, and referees. I remember telling that people's emotions are going to rule the day rather than following the laws and rules that are already in the IBF books; what a shame...!

There is a law on how to handle a situation where a "line judge did not see the shuttlecock landing well enough to make a call (unsighted line judge)". The line judge then closes his eyes with his hands indicating he did not see the shuttle landing to make the IN or OUT call. But, the line judge must clearly indicate this by putting his hands in front of his eyes. Then if the umpire saw the shuttle landing clearly, he can make the call IN or OUT. If the umpire also did not clearly see where the shuttle landed then he will instruct the players to play a "LET"; i.e., replay the point.

However, this was not the case in the point of contention here. Line judge indicated that he clearly saw the shuttle to be "IN". Although this was a correction to his previous call of "OUT", still, the "IN" is his call and that stays as the final call unless the umpire over rules the line judge with his call of "OUT". Otherwise the line judges call is final, and the umpire can't replay that as a "LET".
thank you again for the explanation, dropper. Re the statement i've highlighted in bold above, if i may add, i think in order for the umpire to over-rule the linejudge's call, the umpire must have a clear & firm view himself of where the shuttle landed. And of course, he can do that, only with the request from the player, correct..?!?!..

thank you again for the explanation, dropper. Re the statement i've highlighted in bold above, if i may add, i think in order for the umpire to over-rule the linejudge's call, the umpire must have a clear & firm view himself of where the shuttle landed. And of course, he can do that, only with the request from the player, correct..?!?!..

Yes, the umpire must have a clear view himself of where the shuttle landed.

No, the umpire does not need a request from any of the players to over rule a call made by a line judge. Actually he must not wait for the player request; as soon as the umpire cleary - 100% - sees the line judge's call is incorrect, the umpire should immediately say, "Correction", and make the correct call. No player request or indication is needed.

Actually, the umpire has the option to bring in the referee and request the line judge be replaced, if in the umpire's opinion the line judgs was doing a bad job. But, umpire is not going to do that unless the line judge had been not paying attention and/or had blown a couple of calls prior to that.

No, the umpire does not need a request from any of the players to over rule a call made by a line judge. Actually he must not wait for the player request; as soon as the umpire cleary - 100% - sees the line judge's call is incorrect, the umpire should immediately say, "Correction", and make the correct call. No player request or indication is needed.

Actually, the umpire has the option to bring in the referee and request the line judge be replaced, if in the umpire's opinion the line judgs was doing a bad job. But, umpire is not going to do that unless the line judge had been not paying attention and/or had blown a couple of calls prior to that.
thanks again for the explanation, dropper..Re the statement i've highlighted in bold above, i concur. That's why there is/are linejudge(s), watching those shuttles, as they are the "2nd eyes" or sometimes even the "1st eyes"(for the linejudge(s) on the far back corners) of the umpire; meaning, if there is/are any doubt(s) from the umpire abt the call, s/he can basically confer & confirm with the linejudge(s) themselves.:rolleyes: ;)

Another thing to consider, is that with rally scoring to 21, each point gets much more significant so a few "missed" line-calls may be the deciding factor in close games..

So I guess this is another reason to suggest going back to 15x3!!

/Twobeer
That's quite true. Actually, I think that is probably the main reason for the disputes. Wether that means going back to 15x3 is another issue. I think we need to go forward rather than go back. We have had some great matches with the scoring system. The rules, line judges and IBF will have to work on these issues for the world's fastest racquet sport. Change will inevitably to other changes. We, and IBF, should expect it. The reaction should be active rather than passive.

Well .. I know this thread already few ages old , but just wondering/curious , on the 1st page that you guys discussing , what tournament is that?

That was the Hong Kong open 2006.