Vegetarian Diet & Badminton Athlete

[jug8man]

Hello,

Was thinking if there should be any reason adults on vegetarian diets can develop into and excel as badminton profesionals?

Is there any nutrient beneficial to sports people missing in vegetarian diets?

Is there any diff in protein found in plant base foods with those found in meat?

I know there are many types of vegetarians, lets just confine it to vegetables + milk + eggs for this discussion.


Cheers

[ants]

Soy protein works as well as meat protein.

[taneepak]

The human body needs the major nutrients, carbohydrates, protein, and fat, plus vitamins and the micro nutrients minerals. You can get all these from a vegetarian diet, provided you know what to eat. Generally, vegetarians are healthier and live longer.

[VegiSmash]

The human body needs the major nutrients, carbohydrates, protein, and fat, plus vitamins and the micro nutrients minerals. You can get all these from a vegetarian diet, provided you know what to eat. Generally, vegetarians are healthier and live longer.
While I believe that a varied vegetarian diet is more than sufficient for healthy adult life, I wonder if a non-vegetarian diet during the years of growth adds to greater strength and better athleticism (due primarily to higher protein content).

What do you all think? Any research on this? Could it be one of the reason for India, with it's considerable vegetarian habits, does not excel in sports?

[ants]

Protein is needed to do the nessesary repair and rebuild the muscles. We need to have sufficient protein from either vegetables OR meats. Meats on the other hand have higher protein contents than a normal serving of vegs. However if we have the sufficients plant fruits and vegs, the protein thats in it is better than meat.
Lets face it... all the Elephants,Giraffes,Buffalos,Cows or even Horses are strong and they are all vegetarians. So not nessesary meat eaters have greater strenghts.. we just need to eat More fruits and vegs on a daily basis.

[jug8man]

All interesting points.

Some how i think i have heard that there are many types of proteins?

An example cited (Not exactly vegetarian) was that the Japanese were all pretty short a few decades ago even tho they were eating lots of fish (protein). Lately when western diet crept in (Burger diet), they seem to have grown taller & bigger?

No offence to anyone on the above example. Can some one please bust this related myth??

[Double_Player]

All interesting points.

Some how i think i have heard that there are many types of proteins?

An example cited (Not exactly vegetarian) was that the Japanese were all pretty short a few decades ago even tho they were eating lots of fish (protein). Lately when western diet crept in (Burger diet), they seem to have grown taller & bigger?

No offence to anyone on the above example. Can some one please bust this related myth??

the cows used in making those burger may have growth hormon, which in turn make the eater bigger? I'm not sure, just guessing.

nothing wrong with meat. fatty meat product is the problem (ribs, sausages, burgers, etc etc) and sedimentary life style ( couch-potatoism)

[Crazypeetee246]

From what I know, meat proteins are complete proteins.
I think it is the growth hormones in the burgers as well, thats definetely not good for you. You'll just grow extra tall and be extra clumsy.

[michaelavich]

I'm vegetarian and I have no energy problems (although i'm no pro athlete). Tofu is a great and also other beans. I believe Beans + Corn = a complete protein (and tasty too).

Anyone tried Quinoa? It's an ancient grain that's a little like couscous but very high in protein.

A vegan friend of mine who doesn't eat eggs or dairy just gave birth to six pound twins so I don't think there are any growth issues associated with a well-rounded vegetarian diet.

[jug8man]

Ok!

So the protein issue is busted! So on the point of nutrients, proper balanced Vegen diet should be no problem to develop and sustain a Vegen Badminton Pro Athlete (Unless there are still any takers on this...)


So,
lets look at the Vegen Pro badminton Athlete in a different perspective... Like problems a vegen would encounter 'on tour' to find the food he needs. Like when he's travelling in foreign countries (Asia for example). The problems and the what are the solutions???

Thanks for every contribution!

Cheers

[michaelavich]

travelling can definitely be tricky.

As the birthplace of tofu, Asia can be veggie friendly compared to some places... But Lots of major cities have some selection of international restaurants. I had a delicious Indian meal in Japan and ate a lot of great italian and middle-eastern food in Germany. From what I have heard I would avoid italian food in Hungary (ketchup for tomato sauce... not my style).

Being a pro athlete you would probably have planned meals for before matches. It could be tricky to eat consitent meals every tournament as far as carbs/protein ratio. I think it might just take a little extra planning.

I think there is vegetarian or vegan triathlete that endorses Vega meal replacement shakes (which are vegan). My veggie brother tried it but didn't like the taste.

[taneepak]

The body needs 6 important nutrients, carbohydrates, protein, fats, minerals, vitamins, and water. Nutrients are necessary for energy, organ function, food utilization, and cell growth. The first three are called macronutrients and are the only ones that provide energy, but only if there are enough vitamins and minerals to release them. Vitamins and minerals are called micornutrients. The amount of micronutrients and macronutrients you need for proper health is vastly different-but each is important. The body simplifies nutrients in order to utilize them. This simplification begins with digestion, then enzymatic action splits nutrients into smaller and simpler chemical fragments, and finally enters your bloodstream. Vitamins are the 'spark plugs' that start the process of converting energy from the macronutrients. Minerals are the ignition key that make vitamins work. Vitamins are useless without minerals. The body can make some amino acids (the breakdown parts of protein) and some vitamins but cannot make even one mineral. Lastly, water is essential, without which the body will die.
Protein is essential for building body structure-that is how a baby can grow up to be a 200lbs man and be 6' tall-and to replace worn out cells. If you are a grown adult, your protein needs as a percent of your weight, are significantly lower than a growing child. Excessive protein produces toxic waste.
Protein is the raw material your body uses to break down into simpler parts called amino acids, which the body can use. Meat protein, when broken down into amino acids, contain all the necessary amino acids for the body, including those amino acids the body does not produce on its own. Most vegetables have protein that do not have one or two amino acids that the body does not make, hence they are sometimes called imcomplete protein. Taking eggs or drinking milk can take care of this. Tofu is also a complete protein.
An all vegetarian diet with the proper use of high-protein foods like tofu, dried beans and dried peas (chickpeas or 'kachan puteh') provides complete protein that is far superior to meat. Also vegetables and pulses have more and a greater variety of micronutrients than meat.
Protein from meat is more acidic. Protein from pulses is not. When your blood becomes acidic your body becomes finicky and will take steps to neutralize this increased acidity from meat protein. It will try to neutralize this acidity from meat protein, and in the process calcium is pulled from your bones.
This is why westerners who drink lots of milk and who eat lots of meat have broken bones in their middle age than Asians, despite the fact that they ingest more calcium from dairy products by the tons.

[badmad]

wow!!! a nice article... i knew bits and pieces of this post but not in whole... it's good.. i thot that taneepak knows only about stringing and LaFleche rackets but nope.. i was wrong... :p

[ants]

I agree with Eepaks statement that westerners who drinks lots of Milk and eat lots of Meat are prone to osteoporosis. I would like to expound the reason behind it.
Talking about broken bones, Calcium is important for developlent of healthy bones and teeth. It is also vital in maintaining other body tasks that includes nerves and muscle functions,heartbeat regulation and also blood clotting. However if our dietary intake is low, calcium will be depleted from OUR BONES in order to make up for the deficiency.
Many people and even some of us have been taught that MILK is the only source of calcium. Industrialised countries also have the highest rate of Osteoporosis. There are some studies since many many years ago shows that diets high in Animal protein cause calcium to be lost thru urine, therefore causing an increased depletion from the bones.
National Dairy Council did a study sometime ago which women increased their milk consumption by 3, 8 ounces glasses of milk daily. And they are found to continued to developed osteoporosis even when they increased their intake of calcium and simultaneously increase their protein intake.
One of the reason is because human body cannot BREAK DOWN animal protein effictively. And excess of animal protein has also been linked to heart problems and cancer. Studies also shows that excess protein, which remains undigested, may cause allergies.
Vegetable proteins is far much easier for the body to digest and definately provides the benefits of proper nourishment without the drawbacks associated with animal protein.
Dark green vegetables like brocolli are excellent source of calcium and not forgetting soybeans which are extremely high in calcium.

[ants]

And some may ask... SOY? I have high uric acid. I might have high uric acid if i take alot of Soy products.
Well here you have to understand the way they process the soy products. For your info SOY bean is good, however the SKIN is not good for the body. And beside that, you have to boil the soy at a right temperature. Too high or too low, you may not benefit the maximum nutrition from the soy product. And many of us don't know how SOY products in the market is processed.

[stumblingfeet]

Personally I wouldn't consider a vegetarian diet to be the best kind out there. Meat is just too good of a source of protein and nutrients for me to give it up. Plus, it is so very tasty!

Eating meat and eating vegetables are not mutually exclusive - you can eat meat and eat tons of vegetables too! The acidity issue with eating meats is true, but that can easily be counteracted by eating the same amount (mass wise) of vegetables as meat and grain products (grain products are acidic too). The result is a diet very high in micronutrients, plentiful in protein, and very low glycemic index because of the high fiber content.

[cooler]

cooler came late to this topic:(
my answer: it depends.
if u do alot of physical work or sports, u wear out your muscle and needed proteins for repair. Here more meat in their diet is appropriate. When u work and sweat more, the fluid in your system get replaced often, and the acidity is not big issue. Also, when u exercise, u build bone.

If u r a couch potato video gamer, then lotta meat is not good. Also tons of acidic soda pop to wash down the pizza, hot dogs, etc will make u more acidic.

[taneepak]

Personally I wouldn't consider a vegetarian diet to be the best kind out there. Meat is just too good of a source of protein and nutrients for me to give it up. Plus, it is so very tasty!

Eating meat and eating vegetables are not mutually exclusive - you can eat meat and eat tons of vegetables too! The acidity issue with eating meats is true, but that can easily be counteracted by eating the same amount (mass wise) of vegetables as meat and grain products (grain products are acidic too). The result is a diet very high in micronutrients, plentiful in protein, and very low glycemic index because of the high fiber content.

If you eat tons of vegetables-and vegetables are classified as carbohydrates-you will eat less meat. It is not just the acidity of meat that is the problem. Red meat is marbled with saturated fat which cannot be removed like you can with chicken, and meats are loaded with what are called sulfur-containing amino acids, which are especially aggressive at causing calcium to be lost in the urine. Animal saturated fat is the raw material for your liver to produce cholesterol. It may surprise you that dietary cholesterol is much less a problem than liver-produced cholesterol.
Meats have another problem, and that is they have about 15 times as much phosphorus as calcium. This tremendous phosphorus excess encourages calcium loss. Vegetables have about a one-to-one phosphorus to calcium and will keep your calcium in your body. Think soda, soft drinks like Coke or Pepsi, which used to be called "phosphates" because they contained phospheric acid, and you should worry about these calcium-depleting substances.
Contrary to what people think, pulses have as much protein as lean meat, and they are much healthier. The better off Hindu Indians are mostly vegetarians and pulses are their main protein source. Pulses with rice or another cereal will give you proteins that are complete, and they are much healthier.

[elwin81]

Nice thread man.

Me myself is a vegetarian as well and I eat dairy products as well. I don't think there is any problem for me in term of strength and stamina for badminton. What we need to do is to have a balance diet and have good source of macro and micronutrients.

Anyone know if there is any pro player out there who is a vegetarian?

[taneepak]

I would not be surprised if most of the Indian national squad are vegetarians. Almost all my Hindu Indian friends (the higher casts) are vegetarians. On the other hand almost all my Muslim Indian or Pakistani friends are meat eaters.

[ctjcad]

Nice thread man.

Me myself is a vegetarian as well and I eat dairy products as well. I don't think there is any problem for me in term of strength and stamina for badminton. What we need to do is to have a balance diet and have good source of macro and micronutrients.

Anyone know if there is any pro player out there who is a vegetarian?
i concur with this...as well as most if not all of the posts in this thread..

Here's my take:
i believe one should be able to and balance different types of foods s/he takes into their bodies. As long one doesn't over-indulge on certain foods, one should be fine. Remember the ever-popular food pyramid guide?? Eventhough not everyone follows or adheres to it, I think that's a pretty good indicator of what types of food are needed..Of course, taking additional vitamins/multivitamins as part of one's diet wouldn't hurt either..;) :)

[elwin81]

i concur with this...as well as most if not all of the posts in this thread..

Here's my take:
i believe one should be able to and balance different types of foods s/he takes into their bodies. As long one doesn't over-indulge on certain foods, one should be fine. Remember the ever-popular food pyramid guide?? Eventhough not everyone follows or adheres to it, I think that's a pretty good indicator of what types of food are needed..Of course, taking additional vitamins/multivitamins as part of one's diet wouldn't hurt either..;) :)

Thanks for mentioning the food pyramid and it is actually a very good indicator on what we should have more and what to have less. Carbohydrate is the most important in our diet and we should have lots of this. I strongly recommend whole grain rice instead of white rice as it has a lot more fibre in it which is good for digestion. As for the top, reasonable fat is good enough but not saturated fat as our body is very hard to digest this.

As for a vegetarian like me. This is what I have.
Plenty of veg and fruits, high content fibre products, dairy products, sea plants, various beans and seeds.

[stumblingfeet]

If you eat tons of vegetables-and vegetables are classified as carbohydrates-you will eat less meat. It is not just the acidity of meat that is the problem. Red meat is marbled with saturated fat which cannot be removed like you can with chicken, and meats are loaded with what are called sulfur-containing amino acids, which are especially aggressive at causing calcium to be lost in the urine. Animal saturated fat is the raw material for your liver to produce cholesterol. It may surprise you that dietary cholesterol is much less a problem than liver-produced cholesterol.
Meats have another problem, and that is they have about 15 times as much phosphorus as calcium. This tremendous phosphorus excess encourages calcium loss. Vegetables have about a one-to-one phosphorus to calcium and will keep your calcium in your body. Think soda, soft drinks like Coke or Pepsi, which used to be called "phosphates" because they contained phospheric acid, and you should worry about these calcium-depleting substances.
Contrary to what people think, pulses have as much protein as lean meat, and they are much healthier. The better off Hindu Indians are mostly vegetarians and pulses are their main protein source. Pulses with rice or another cereal will give you proteins that are complete, and they are much healthier.

Not all vegetables are high in carbohydrates - some staples such as spinach, broccoli, kale are mostly fiber, so their role is more in slowing the release of carbohydrates into the blood. And again, just eating more vegetables does not necessarily mean displacing meats from your diet.

I'm not particularly fond of the food pyramid. If you look back to the past to what humans ate in paleolithic times, what foods weren't available in that era? Grains and dairy. What's at the bottom of the pyramid? Grains. What gets its own step on the pyramid? Dairy. To tell you the truth, grains and dairy aren't really all that essential in terms of the nutrients they provide. The trouble with these foods is that they tend to be fairly high in glycemic index and glycemic load, leading to all sorts of health problems down the road involving high blood sugar, carbohydrate tolerance, etc.

Instead, the pyramid should be more like: water at the bottom, then vegetables, then fruits, then meat, then grains&dairy

[ctjcad]

I'm not particularly fond of the food pyramid. If you look back to the past to what humans ate in paleolithic times, what foods weren't available in that era? Grains and dairy. What's at the bottom of the pyramid? Grains. What gets its own step on the pyramid? Dairy. To tell you the truth, grains and dairy aren't really all that essential in terms of the nutrients they provide. The trouble with these foods is that they tend to be fairly high in glycemic index and glycemic load, leading to all sorts of health problems down the road involving high blood sugar, carbohydrate tolerance, etc.
hmm, sorry guys, i don't want to shift topic, but do you think humans actually lived as early as 2 mil or more yrs ago(paleolithic era)??.....Personally, i believe humans existed much later than than. But this is a totally whole different discussion, so i'll just stop here...:p ;)
And re the existence of grains and dairy, YES, I do believe they already existed when humans first inhabited the earth. But unfortunately at that time, they didn't have the means & know how to do so, thus weren't able to produce/process nor consume them like today.

Instead, the pyramid should be more like: water at the bottom, then vegetables, then fruits, then meat, then grains&dairy
Yes, i also concur that water is very2 important. However, since it's called a "food" pyramid, on a *technical* term, i don't think water can be classified as "food", more like liquid. If it's orange juice, strawberrry juice, then maybe it can be classified as "food"...;)

[taneepak]

I think there is some confusion in what glycemic index is. To be solely guided by glycemic index in what foods to eat can make you a very sick man.
The 3 macronutrients, carbohydrates, fats, and protein, are sources of energy for the body. However, the most economical source of energy is carbohydrates, next fats, and last protein. The reason why carbohydrates are the most economical is that they have a very high percent of carbon, hence the name carbohydrates-now you know how it got its name-and these unite readily with oxygen, forming carbon dioxide among other elements in burning. When carbohydrates are in excess you get fat, when in short supply fats will convert to energy but less economically. If you are short in both carbohydrates and fats, the proteins in your body structure will convert to energy, but this is the most destructive and uneconomical way.
Gylcemic index is mainly used to measure carbohydrates, which come in a thousand and one forms. Basically simple carbohydrates like sugar are easily converted to energy fastest, and is therefore a high glycemic index food item. Basmati rice, even the white ones, has a lower glycemic index than brown rice. Barley, a complex carbohydrate, is low in glycemic index. Most fruits and vegetables are low in glycemic index.
You should restrict the use of glycemic index in choosing only carbohydrates foods by choosing low glycemic index foods. High glycemic index foods are usually processed carbohydrates and sugars.

[modious]

Genreally low GI carbs is better though high GI carbs is not as bad as it is if you know when to consume.

taneepak, I'm impressed by your knowledge. Are you a nutritionist?? :D
I've been reading up quite a bit on nutrition as it's part of my interest.

[modious]

i concur with this...as well as most if not all of the posts in this thread..

Here's my take:
i believe one should be able to and balance different types of foods s/he takes into their bodies. As long one doesn't over-indulge on certain foods, one should be fine.

Yeah, just take everything in moderation. ;)

[cooler]

Yeah, just take everything in moderation. ;)
except for badminton:)

[modious]

except for badminton:)

http://forums.keeptouch.net/images/smilies/hifive.gif well of course!

[jug8man]

Ok, Very interesting this vege diet. I must admit i'm getting hooked on some of the normal Vegen dishes served locally by the restaurants & vendors...

Though it's good to know that the vegen diet is good for a healthy lifestyle, how really does it effect the active lifestyle of badminton pro athlete???


Cheers!

[Ranmira]

Though it's good to know that the vegen diet is good for a healthy lifestyle, how really does it effect the active lifestyle of badminton pro athlete???

I don't think so, based on what I've heard and read so far about vegetarian diets (I tend to eat vegetables more than the usual myself. :D)

However, with regards with the active lifestyle -- might be an issue if the place where the athlete would stay has no easy access to vegetables and vegetable dishes! :p

[taneepak]

Ok, Very interesting this vege diet. I must admit i'm getting hooked on some of the normal Vegen dishes served locally by the restaurants & vendors...

Though it's good to know that the vegen diet is good for a healthy lifestyle, how really does it effect the active lifestyle of badminton pro athlete???


Cheers!

Athletes need only one thing in sports-energy. Only carbohydrates are readily available for energy. For badminton, it is nothing but carbohydrates. If you can do some carbohydrates-loading before a tournament then you a step ahead. I think Peter Gade is very conscious of going acrbohydrates when proparing for a tournament. Protein is utterly useless when it comes to sports competition.

[stumblingfeet]

Sports nutrition involves much more than simply loading up on carbohydrates.

Protein has an essential role in repairing tissues as they get worn during physical activity. That's important because it helps us recover between training sessions. For athletes trying to lose weight (in sports with weight classes, for example), a higher protein diet may "spare" muscle from being consumed by the body as weight is lost.

Glycemic index is much more than a "simple vs complex" carbohydrate issue. In fact, complex carbohydrates (i.e. starch), which are long chains of sugars, might not necessarily be absorbed more slowly than simple carbohydrates. If I remember correctly, maltodextrin (a complex carb) is used in many sports drinks because the sugar is absorbed very rapidly. What's more important in terms of glycemic index is the amount of fiber in your food. Fiber slows down the digestion of food, so the result is a slower release of sugar into the bloodstream. Other methods for decreasing the glycemic index of food is adding fats, and vinegar too. So, to decrease the glycemic index of your meal, eat a salad with olive oil and vinegar on top.

Another important effect of food on athletic performance is avoiding indigestion during competition. It's tough to concentrate on sports performance when your stomach is upset, so athletes must determine what foods work well for them.

Because of their high activity levels, athletes can become deficient in certain micronutrients. For example, zinc and magnesium are often low in athletes, leading to lower testosterone levels - consequently poorer athletic performance. Supplementation with these minerals can cause test levels to go back to normal, resulting in stronger physical performance.

So anyhow, back to the original topic - if you're a vegetarian for moral/ethical reasons, then I have no problem with that. Just make sure you look into how to maximize your nutrition given your dietary restrictions.

If you're a vegetarian for health reasons - really make sure to ask yourself why you think that is the best choice. Is it meat that causing health problems? If so, is it the choice of meat (e.g. salami rather than salmon)? Is it insufficient vegetable consumption causing a problem? Try eating more veggies without cutting out meat.

If you're a vegetarian for cost reasons (meat can be expensive), just know that a very healthy diet without meat is still very expensive. With food, you often get what you pay for, so if you go for the cheap food, you get the poor nutrition. Good health starts with healthy diet, so make sure to invest in yourself by getting healthy foods in your diet.

[taneepak]

The energy cycle of the body is called the Krebs cycle. Energy from glucose and, when glucose is not available, from other carbohydrates, fats, and proteins is converted into a chemical form capable of rebonding phosphates and re-forming molecules of adenosine triphosphate, or ATP. These are needed for all activities. As a result of the chemical reactions of the cycle, the waste products carbon dioxide and water are formed and then eliminated from the body.
Glycogen, or carbohydrates, loading is the process of manipulating the diet and amount of exercise to increase glycogen stores in muscles, and thereby, it is hoped, increase the capacity for continuous, exhausting, and prolonged-over 90 minutes-exercise, like in a tough top level singles game in badminton or when running a long distance race. The usual glycogen content of the body is only about one pound, or roughly 3,500 calories. When your stores of glycogen is exhausted, even though the fat is broken down to provide a sizable amount of energy, the muscle fibers will fail to contract properly and weakness will result. If you follow several days of carbohydrate deprivation with several meals of very high carbohydrate content while continuing to exercise all the time, you can increase your muscle glycogen content a good deal above these levels. Glycogen loading does not affect your performance in short-term activities, for which the body's normal stores are more than ample. However, in a 90+ minutes top singles match or in long distance running it can be advantageous.
Also vigorous physical activity like an explosive long drawn out singles match in badminton requires a lot of energy. Sometimes the cells are worked so hard that not enough oxygen reaches them. The cells can continue to liberate energy, but the body can sustain anaerobic activity-activity without oxygen-only for a limited period of time. In muscles, for example, anaerobic activity leads to the build-up of lactic acid, which makes the muscles sore and signals that they need to rest.
You don't have to worry about protein to repair and to replace your worn out cells in any exercise as most food, including pasta, have enough protein to do this. For liquids and minerals lost during exercise, water will do for not so vigorous exercise. However, if you sweat a lot and/or play vigorously, you can make your own sports drink which are better than sports drinks you buy from stores. They also cost next to nothing.

[modious]

Did you really type all that??!:eek:

Anyway, what's your views on creatine monohydrate?

It supports ATP formation and replenishment right? Also, there' many variations that are being produced like Creatine Ethyl Ester, Tri-creatine malate, Kre-Alkalyn (buffered creatine), Creatine KIC(ketoisocaproic acid calcium), Tricreatine orotate (creatine + orotic acid) etc.


You said most foods contain enough protein to repair our muscles? From what I know, is it necessary to take 0.8g-1g of protein per lb of bodyweight?

[cooler]

You don't have to worry about protein to repair and to replace your worn out cells in any exercise as most food, including pasta, have enough protein to do this.

unfortunately, most people can't locate enough non-meat foods to get all the required proteins. Some hard to get non-meat foods may cost more than a slice of NY steak. I know that ginseng has protein too:p

[taneepak]

An adult needs very little protein, just enough to repair and replace cells. All you need is a mere 0.36g per lb of body weight. If you weigh 100lbs your protein requirement is a tiny 36g.
To get energy out of ATP all you need is for your cells to slpit the high-energy phosphate bonds in the chemical ATP which contains three phosphates. The resulting chemical, adenosine diphosphate, or ADP, contains only two phosphates until it is reformed into ATP by means of the energy produced in the Krebs cycle. There is no Krebs cycle if there is no glucose.
Energy is released when cells split the high-energy bonds of ATP, which the cells can then harness and liberate as heat, or, in some specialized cells such as muscle cells, as mechanical work, like smashing you into submission the way Lin Dan does it so well..:D

[modious]

An adult needs very little protein, just enough to repair and replace cells. All you need is a mere 0.36g per lb of body weight. If you weigh 100lbs your protein requirement is a tiny 36g.


But if you want to build some muscles (but not to become a bodybuilder), isn't that protein intake too little?

[jug8man]

Eepak seems to have a strong argument. Eepak, would a normal young adult be able to develop into a lean mean Lin Dan Shuttle Smashing machine in the course of 2-4 years if he was to be restricted to that kind of vegen diet you are mentioning?

Cheers

[jug8man]

An adult needs very little protein, just enough to repair and replace cells. All you need is a mere 0.36g per lb of body weight. If you weigh 100lbs your protein requirement is a tiny 36g.
To get energy out of ATP all you need is for your cells to slpit the high-energy phosphate bonds in the chemical ATP which contains three phosphates. The resulting chemical, adenosine diphosphate, or ADP, contains only two phosphates until it is reformed into ATP by means of the energy produced in the Krebs cycle. There is no Krebs cycle if there is no glucose.
Energy is released when cells split the high-energy bonds of ATP, which the cells can then harness and liberate as heat, or, in some specialized cells such as muscle cells, as mechanical work, like smashing you into submission the way Lin Dan does it so well..:D


Eepak!

I'm very interested that you have cited Lin Dan. Is he a vegetarian or a practitioner of the diet you mentioned?

[michaelavich]

oopsidaisy... didn't mean to post reply

[jug8man]

Thanks Michaelavich,

So is the answer yes?
No salts, minerals, protein issues? that would hinder the development into a tip top athlete like Lin Dan?

Cheers

[cooler]

Eepak!

I'm very interested that you have cited Lin Dan. Is he a vegetarian or a practitioner of the diet you mentioned?
Let take a stab at this. Although i have no training in western or eastern medicine, using common sense, if LD is a vegetarian (during his training), he will be too busy eating and pooping to capture the required nutrients from veggies and cereals, he wont have time to train. If u look at the animal kingdom, herbivores spend most of their lives eating and pooping.

[michaelavich]

I'm sure i'm more gassy but I don't think I poop more. Anyway... irregularity is highly overrated.

what I was saying earlier that jug8man was replying to was that vegan/veggie diets aren't low protein if you don't want them to be.

[michaelavich]

check out this site for lots of info on vegan diets and high level athletics

www.brendanbrazier.com

[taneepak]

Eepak seems to have a strong argument. Eepak, would a normal young adult be able to develop into a lean mean Lin Dan Shuttle Smashing machine in the course of 2-4 years if he was to be restricted to that kind of vegen diet you are mentioning?

Cheers

Lin Dan's muscles are more likely the product of hard exercise. Yes, muscles and other bodily organs, etc. are made from amino acids which originally came from protein, but they have nothing to do with a fat man transforming into a muscle man through exercise. Lin Dan or anybody can get those muscles with a balanced diet and vigorous exercise, including a daily protein intake of 0.36g per one pound of body weight. Protein can come from meat, fish, grains, pulses, dairy products, etc.
Perhaps the greatest demand for protein replacement is the lining of your GI tract, which is renewed every 3 days. Even more but bloody foul-smelling is a person with serious gum disease. His mouth linings are being replaced a few times a day, a perfect breeding place for bacteria.
The Krebs cycle breaks down foods to produce energy, water, and carbon dioxide. Prior to the Krebs cycle enzmes will break down foods including protein, whose amino acids will leave behind nitrogen wastes which hopefully are all eliminated. If not they can be toxic to the body.
Besides simplifying and breaking down foods for energy the body can also rebuild. The cells, no wastrels, use food not converted into immediate energy to repair and rebuild worn tissues, while the excess is thriftily stored. Both called for the conversion of food products into tissue. This aspect of metobolism, called synthesis, which takes all the previously broken down carbon, amino acids, fatty acids, glucose, etc. for the cell to re-form into the body's complex substances-fats, proteins, carbohydrates.

[taneepak]

Let take a stab at this. Although i have no training in western or eastern medicine, using common sense, if LD is a vegetarian (during his training), he will be too busy eating and pooping to capture the required nutrients from veggies and cereals, he wont have time to train. If u look at the animal kingdom, herbivores spend most of their lives eating and pooping.

Pulses are very high-protein foods, as high if not higher than lean meat. Coupled with a cereal like rice or a flour product like bread, pulses and rice or bread are complete protein far superior to meat alone.
Chinese and Indian vegetarians include complete proteins in their diet-Tou Fu for the Chinese and pulses plus rice or chapati for Indians-and is not a problem. However, some westerners go solely for veg greens and nothing else, and this can cause problems.

[taneepak]

Let take a stab at this. Although i have no training in western or eastern medicine, using common sense, if LD is a vegetarian (during his training), he will be too busy eating and pooping to capture the required nutrients from veggies and cereals, he wont have time to train. If u look at the animal kingdom, herbivores spend most of their lives eating and pooping.

Let us look at this from another angle. In the coming WC, if Lin Dan were to go on an all-lean meat protein diet one week before and during the Championships, and Taufik were to be on a simple 'nasi lemak' with vegetables diet for the same period, Lin Dan wouldn't last through the second round. There simply isn't any energy left for Lin Dan, and whatever energy from fat he is using, after having exhausted his carbohydrate-sourced energy, isn't going to be of much help. BTW, nasi lemak has anchovies, eggs, vegetables, and plenty of rice.

[Eurasian =--(O)]

Let us look at this from another angle. In the coming WC, if Lin Dan were to go on an all-lean meat protein diet one week before and during the Championships, and Taufik were to be on a simple 'nasi lemak' with vegetables diet for the same period, Lin Dan wouldn't last through the second round. There simply isn't any energy left for Lin Dan, and whatever energy from fat he is using, after having exhausted his carbohydrate-sourced energy, isn't going to be of much help. BTW, nasi lemak has anchovies, eggs, vegetables, and plenty of rice.

Carbohydrates are way more important than protein for activity. Protein is just used after the fact for rebuilding damaged tissue. Carbohydrates = energy. Thats why so many people drink sports drinks during exercise, they get the quick boost from the carbohydrate sugar. No one will eat a hunk of meat during exercise... some people are starting to drink protein shakes when weight lifting though. However weight lifting and badminton diets are different. How many vegan weight lifters has anyone met?

I also heard on some infomercial that it is impossible for cancer to exist if the person has a basic blood level. Does anyone know about this? It makes sense though b/c foods that are bad for you are generally acidic after being broken down by the digestive system (burgers, alcohol, etc.).

[westwood_13]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I'm a vegetarian athlete who has recently (within the past week or so) moved from 2-3 meals a day to 5 small meals spaced th ree hours apart. As a result, I need sources of complete protein that are small, don't require too much preparation, and are easy to transport around with me all day (ie: don't need refridgeration, etc.). Any suggestions?

[michaelavich]

I'm not sure if it's a complete protein but quinoa can be prepared and purchased in different ways and is high in protein. My brother did the 5 small meals and it worked really well for him. I know he ate a lot of tofu and coucous in his planned diet. If you substitute quinoa for rice or couscous you get carbs and protein all in one. I'm no dietician though.

woohoo winnipeg!

[jug8man]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I'm a vegetarian athlete who has recently (within the past week or so) moved from 2-3 meals a day to 5 small meals spaced th ree hours apart. As a result, I need sources of complete protein that are small, don't require too much preparation, and are easy to transport around with me all day (ie: don't need refridgeration, etc.). Any suggestions?

wellcome to the thread.

Let's make this thread the centre for all vegen athlete diet discussions. Hopefully usefull info can be shared here for the benefit of all.
Why should the meat eaters hog the podium. :D

Tho myself am not a true vegen either. Have a nice day.

TBBMBB(N)

[azn_123]

An adult needs very little protein, just enough to repair and replace cells. All you need is a mere 0.36g per lb of body weight. If you weigh 100lbs your protein requirement is a tiny 36g.
To get energy out of ATP all you need is for your cells to slpit the high-energy phosphate bonds in the chemical ATP which contains three phosphates. The resulting chemical, adenosine diphosphate, or ADP, contains only two phosphates until it is reformed into ATP by means of the energy produced in the Krebs cycle. There is no Krebs cycle if there is no glucose.
Energy is released when cells split the high-energy bonds of ATP, which the cells can then harness and liberate as heat, or, in some specialized cells such as muscle cells, as mechanical work, like smashing you into submission the way Lin Dan does it so well..:D

I thought it was if you weighed 100lbs you comsume 100g of protein. And if your 20lbs for example you consume 20g of protein. Mehh for mine I think it's more for body builders LOL..:D