OK last night, one of our learners playing with me against two seasoned men. We started by playing side by side, that wasn’t working as we lost five points with lazy drop shots not being picked up in time. So I went to the net where possible (not where I am most useful) and we held our own for a couple of points. Anyhow our opponent not being stupid then pushed me backwards with long serves when I was returning, and despite my telling (and then shouting at) my partner to cover the net he insisted on reversing into me whenever possible. Result, 4 hefty clashes:( , a feather hitting him in the back of the head at 100+mph:confused: , a couple of chips taken out of the paint in my racquet :mad: and us capitulating in the game:p , he then goes on to blame me!! :(

So the question what can I do to make him go to and stay by the net when required?

If he's way below the other 3 ppl's level, and refuse to listen, then there's nothing much you can do. Perhaps just enjoy the game, and don't care about the result too much. Overall, it's not a fairly balanced game to start with, and if you decide to play, play it for fun, or for your own practice, no point to fight to death for every single point.

Many ppl take it as an offense, when being asked to stay in the front. Either they consider this game more as a fun (e.g. try to hit the shuttles more often) rather than competition, or they lack the knowledge of the game (if they also want to win).

Overall, if you don't feel enjoyable to team up with him, change a partner next time. ;)

Oh dont get me wrong, winning isnt everything, I was expecting to get beaten (not soundly but by a few points) just not likely end up in or sending someone to hospital.

I guess if we cant change his attitude then he will end up playing on his own in the end.

Someone wants to improve, and put the "pride" aside. Others might consider the pride more than anything else, and refuse to listen, even if the advice could benefit for his/her development. Guess it's always hard to change ppl's attitude. :rolleyes:

or people have to lose the stereotype or idea that playing the net is an inferior position.

last time i checked, being effective and learning to be effective at the forecourt is more difficult than being effective in the back!

last time i checked, being effective and learning to be effective at the forecourt is more difficult than being effective in the back!

I agree.

With much less reaction time, the front is a "do or die" situation. If you are not ready (watching a show put on by your partner and others) or make a mistake (low quality shot), you don't even get a chance to make up the hole. Therefore, the front position requires good reflex and more important, the concentration and experience.

It's the quality matters (good setup or finish stroke), not the quatity (how many long clear rallies you get into). ;)

There are times when you cover the net, there are times when you should be side-by-side, there are times when you should be in the backcourt.:crying: It isn't a hard concept (if you don't know when to cover what, ask an experiance player for help).

I like the suggestion made about pride. There is only one person in this world you can change......... YOURSELF!! :D Someone has to want to learn his/her court responsibilities. If they don't want to learn, you can't expect to teach them anything. (especially if you SHOUT AT SOMEONE!!!).

If you don't like to play with that person, then don't.;)

But when you bring frustration and anger to the court, neither of you will learn anything.

Toddster

At a club night, you often can't choose whom you play with.

In extreme cases, you can just refuse to play with (or against) someone; I've done this on one occasion only, when a man whom I played against threatened me with physical violence (he, a big fish in a small pond, was humiliated by my effortless victory). I told him that this behavior was unacceptable, and that he had thereby forever lost the privilege of a rematch.

Normally, however, refusing to play is inappropriately rude. It will upset people, and you will become the focus of club gossip. It's not worth creating such an awkward social situation unless you have a compelling reason (such as above).

There is a simple alternative. If you are annoyed by your partner's persistent poor play, then just lose the game deliberately. Don't make it look like you lost deliberately; just stop trying hard. Start thinking about something other than the game; be lazy, and stop smashing entirely (drops instead, or even clears).

Very soon your partner will not pick you for a game.

I don't often do this, because I feel it is manipulative. Yet sometimes manipulating people is worth the payoff. How much do you really care about the relationship anyway? How much do they care? Not very much, I think.

Perhaps you think it's better to be honest? I disagree; with trivial relationships, harsh honesty is the last thing that anyone wants. Better to drop them a hint instead.

I know it's cynical and unfair on my partner, but I've started to play like this when I'm chosen for a mixed game with a very weak lady player. I hate playing mixed when I have to cover the entire court. I've also nurtured the impression that I greatly prefer men's doubles, so that other players (especially ladies) will be slightly uneasy about asking me to play. Body language can play a role here.

There's nothing dramatic or confrontational in this, but it works. I don't get chosen as often for mixed games as I used to.

So just try losing. You can even have fun -- play those trick shots you always want to try out, experiment with over-ambitious sliced dropshots, try that difficult sliced serve.

Even if your partner doesn't take the hint, you are guaranteed to have much shorter games if you deliberately play badly.

Of course, this works best at a club which is uncrowded, so that you will get another game soon.

Honestly, if you are playing in a club... you should not have too much expectation from the regular average or below average players, especially if they are the so-called veterans. Imagine playing for years and years, and they are still average players.. the only reason that may hold true is that they won't try to improve and they won't want to listen to anyone's advice, even if it is the better way to play the game.

Most club players don't even know double's formation at all, and most of them will always always refuse to play singles and have plenty of excuses why they only want to play doubles. They don't want to admit their lack of knowledge or skill about the game, and they are not willing to learn it, so nothing you can expect out of them except just don't break your skull when they try to hit a shuttle behind you.:p

Your discription is different how things are done where I play at. I guess there are different badminton cultures.

Generally, there are two systems for open play (Southern California- USA).

You sign up on a court with three other people (if you don't like the people, you don't sign up). When your group is next up on court, you play two games and then all 4 of you get off.

The system I like, is where you sign your name up on a court. When your name comes up, and you don't have a partner, you have to place your name at the bottom. You play one game (switch sides at 8 points) and the winner of the game stays on the court (when it gets crowded, the winning team can stay on for only three games max, then they have to put their name at the bottom of the list).

To keep things flowing, you can not sign your name up on more than one court. If you are seen playing on another court, your name gets crossed off of any other courts you have placed your name. (yes there are people who try to abuse the system :crying: )

(no, we still don't use the rally point scoring system, that is only being used in tournaments around here)

I do not like the first method because players will often try to stay on the court as long as possible. They will often play more clear and drop shots and not try to win the point.

he he if you don't like your opponent try to hit them. he he if you don't like your partner, set them up to get hit he he ...... JUST KIDDING!!!!!

"I told him that this behavior was unacceptable, and that he had thereby forever lost the privilege of a rematch."

I LOVE THAT ha ha ha ha ha

Just playing devils advocate here .....

"So I was playing at my club yesterday and I was playing 'sides' like I normally do and there's this bloke that starts telling me, in the middle of the game, to stand at the net! He even starts shouting at me to stay at the net. We kept running into each other and he kept blaming me! I told him it was his fault. He's the only one in the club that's ever told me to stand at the net. So does he think he's right and everybody else in the club is wrong?"

The best clubs have an environment where people are able to comment on each other's play constructively, although it does depend on an individuals ability to receive criticism. But if you're the only one who's ever asked him to play this way then it's going to be difficult.

If I were you I would smooth things over by apologising for shouting at him and explaining the different formations. If he doesn't want to do it then you have to consider your club's philosophy. If your club is happy to have social players who don't want to improve then you'll either have to deal with him and other players like him or join another club. On the other hand if your club wants to encourage players to get better then one of the team captains ought to speak with him.

OK last night, one of our learners playing with me against two seasoned men. We started by playing side by side, that wasn’t working as we lost five points with lazy drop shots not being picked up in time. So I went to the net where possible (not where I am most useful) and we held our own for a couple of points. Anyhow our opponent not being stupid then pushed me backwards with long serves when I was returning, and despite my telling (and then shouting at) my partner to cover the net he insisted on reversing into me whenever possible. Result, 4 hefty clashes:( , a feather hitting him in the back of the head at 100+mph:confused: , a couple of chips taken out of the paint in my racquet :mad: and us capitulating in the game:p , he then goes on to blame me!! :(

So the question what can I do to make him go to and stay by the net when required?
Well, I don't think much of people who blame their partners. Seriously. Especially in friendly games, like yours. I mean, I've never actually told my partner(no matter how lousy a player) that it's his/her fault that we lost a game. It's just totally unsportsmanlike to do so. I would have gotten pretty angry if my partner had done that, especially if it was his/her fault, and not mine.

But anyway, I think I can understand your partner's feelings.. a man telling another man to stand in front? Maybe some ladies will do it without taking offence, but men? Most would be insulted I guess.

So perhaps you should just play a normal men doubles in the future, and just enjoy yourself. =)

Tut tut crosscourt, that would be so true if a word of its was. However I accept there are two sides to most stories, but this ones clear-cut mi lord. He’s unpredictable, storming in on occasion to poach shots off the ladies, reversing into anyone stood ready for a deep return, or simply not going for shots that are coming too an area he is covering. I have on more than one occasion given him the benefit of the doubt and explained what why and wherefore (as have several other players) and he persists in playing as he does.

But anyway, I think I can understand your partner's feelings.. a man telling another man to stand in front? Maybe some ladies will do it without taking offence, but men? Most would be insulted I guess.


I suppose, but it never bothered me when I was learner (way back when).

I suppose, but it never bothered me when I was learner (way back when).

Precisely why I said 'most'.

I don't even dare tell guys to do that. Lol! Only if they are much younger and weaker.:p

Tut tut crosscourt, that would be so true if a word of its was. However I accept there are two sides to most stories, but this ones clear-cut mi lord. He’s unpredictable, storming in on occasion to poach shots off the ladies, reversing into anyone stood ready for a deep return, or simply not going for shots that are coming too an area he is covering. I have on more than one occasion given him the benefit of the doubt and explained what why and wherefore (as have several other players) and he persists in playing as he does.

If he wants to learn, might be he's trying too hard (e.g. bump into others) or does not have the correct method of learning (refuse to listen). Or, he simply just comes to have some fun, and we should not set too much expectation.

Overall, if you feel comfortable, continue to play with him, and hope for the best. If not, ignore him, and pick someone else for your game. :)

Imagine playing for years and years, and they are still average players.. the only reason that may hold true is that they won't try to improve and they won't want to listen to anyone's advice, even if it is the better way to play the game.

Most club players don't even know double's formation at all, and most of them will always always refuse to play singles and have plenty of excuses why they only want to play doubles. They don't want to admit their lack of knowledge or skill about the game, and they are not willing to learn it, so nothing you can expect out of them except just don't break your skull when they try to hit a shuttle behind you.:p

I understand what you trying to say, but the way you stated it, I can't really agree. Whether a player can perform well or not, there are so many factors involved. Simply saying they are not trying or lack of knowledge, because they lost a game, or something, is purely non-sense to me.

There are quite a few very knowledgable players in my club. Due to their age, injuries, and playing time (due to work/family issues, I suppose), they might lose quite a bit games here and there. However, they are no doubt "good players" with great amount of knowledge in the game. They've been giving me advices here and there, and made my game jump into a different level. Even if I can beat them in a game, I still respect them. Even if their game dramatically declining due to the above reasons, I know I would be lucky to even know how to swing a racket, if I come to their age, and suffer through the things they've been through.

Many clubs have very limited facility time. Therefore, double might be the only thing you can play, even if you prefer singles. Also, whether double or single it's also down to ur own preference. Can you say, Fu/Cai are "lazy" when compare to any single players in the world? Of course not.

Even if you are the better player on the court, does not mean you know more than them. Even if you have better overall knowledge, does not mean you are always right, or they are always wrong. Respect others, and never over-estimate yourself. :o

I guess I am venting my frustrations on here because I feel I have hit a wall with this young man, most people listen and improve or quickly tire of the game and give up, this bloke seems to be doing neither, frustrating because I can see the potential.

Guess I will just have to persevere and hope that no one ends up dead or worse.

Dead or worse?? :D

this bloke seems to be doing neither, frustrating because I can see the potential.



If you are really interested in trying to help this player, video tape him. And then sit down watch the video of his game and compair and contrast his play with that of better players. You will be suprised how much of a chage someone will display when you bring in a video camera and put it on their game.

Toddster

Since when was playing at front a "bad" position to play? A lot of winners come from shots played from the net. Anyways, more to the point, when people mention that they want to play "sides" or "front and back", that it pretty much recognisable as club level playing standards and below. I hate it when ladies just stay at front all the time - and this is usually NOT AT ALL their fault. This is due to men who think they are superior to women and force them to stay front. Therefore week-in, week-out thats all the ladies know how to do... they do not get practise of playing from all areas of the court!

Unless your partner is crippled or can't move fast due to their age or something; if you tell them to stay front all the time, they will never improve on the more general aspects of the game. And if the only reason you do that is because you hate losing then the problem lies only with you.

At higher levels of play, the positions that each partner takes should be determined by many factors such as the type of shot that is played from your side and the type of shot received from the opponent. That's why at I would say county level and above, in mixed doubles, seeing the lady move to the back to play a shot is not a rare sight. At county level and above, strangers can be paired up with each other and they will, more often that not, be able to play with each other straight away. With doubles, technique not only lies in footwork, racquet skill etc, but also with positioning.

So to sum it up, there is no such thing as playing "sides" and "front and back". The position you and your partner takes is all dependant on how the shuttle is played during the rally.

In my honest opinion, a lot of people who play at club level should go back to basics and get some coaching - EVEN if they don't seem that bad, as it is usually the basics that they have not grasped. Even professional players practise their basic skills all the time!

The trouble is, with club nights, there is often the lack of a coach to train you and spot when and what you are doing wrong / right. It would definately be beneficial to even go to a beginners club that has a professional coach (a lot cheaper than 1on1).

Kaiyo we aren’t talking about the guy ever achieving national standard (even county) just becoming a useful club player.

if your mind isn’t quick enough your feet never will be.

Since when was playing at front a "bad" position to play? A lot of winners come from shots played from the net. Anyways, more to the point, when people mention that they want to play "sides" or "front and back", that it pretty much recognisable as club level playing standards and below. I hate it when ladies just stay at front all the time - and this is usually NOT AT ALL their fault. This is due to men who think they are superior to women and force them to stay front. Therefore week-in, week-out thats all the ladies know how to do... they do not get practise of playing from all areas of the court!

Unless your partner is crippled or can't move fast due to their age or something; if you tell them to stay front all the time, they will never improve on the more general aspects of the game. And if the only reason you do that is because you hate losing then the problem lies only with you.

At higher levels of play, the positions that each partner takes should be determined by many factors such as the type of shot that is played from your side and the type of shot received from the opponent. That's why at I would say county level and above, in mixed doubles, seeing the lady move to the back to play a shot is not a rare sight. At county level and above, strangers can be paired up with each other and they will, more often that not, be able to play with each other straight away. With doubles, technique not only lies in footwork, racquet skill etc, but also with positioning.

So to sum it up, there is no such thing as playing "sides" and "front and back". The position you and your partner takes is all dependant on how the shuttle is played during the rally.

In my honest opinion, a lot of people who play at club level should go back to basics and get some coaching - EVEN if they don't seem that bad, as it is usually the basics that they have not grasped. Even professional players practise their basic skills all the time!

The trouble is, with club nights, there is often the lack of a coach to train you and spot when and what you are doing wrong / right. It would definately be beneficial to even go to a beginners club that has a professional coach (a lot cheaper than 1on1).


i think a weaker partner is usually asked to stay in front, especially if he/she doesn't have the strength to clear to baseline consistently, or play a threatening smash. the opponents, knowing this weakness can then easily 'aim' this weaker guy easily by driving the 2 back corners.
on the other hand if the weaker guy were to stand in front, they can't aim him all the time as the front man is usually more threatening