In both the JO and CO, these two weren't able to show us the kind of form they displayed in the WC. They got 'massacred' by Tony & Candra in the JO, and had no answer to Markis & Kido in the CO. The scores weren't very close even when they were playing in their home turf.

This begs the question: Was their WC victory just a stroke of luck?

In both the JO and CO, these two weren't able to show us the kind of form they displayed in the WC. They got 'massacred' by Tony & Candra in the JO, and had no answer to Markis & Kido in the CO. The scores weren't very close even when they were playing in their home turf.

This begs the question: Was their WC victory just a stroke of luck?

yes and no, more of the yes.
1. tony and candra can't play
2. the draft really threw kido/setiawan out of sych. Too many of their drive shots went long by 1 inch. The Britsh pair seen to be more aware of the draft. I believed i made this comment in that SF thread

This begs the question: Was their WC victory just a stroke of luck?

Please teach me how to win a tournament with luck, my teacher!!!:p

Winning a tournament does not require that you have to be able to beat every single person or team in the tournament... according to Andy Roddick's coach(can't remember his name), a champion only has to beat the player he has drawn to play against... not everyone in the touranment.:cool:

You can not deny their victory at WC just because they didn't meet Tony/Candra or Kido/Setiawan... It's not Cai/Fu's problem that either those two can't enter the tournament or they got knocked out by a team whom played better than they did in that round.:p

Cai/Fu lost in both JO and CO, simply because the Indo's teams has figured out a good strategy to combat their strength which is speed and power smashes. I wish I can smash like Fu...:p

i think cai/fu not seriously taking the match:p , just to make badminton intererting

Cai and Fu not consistent player. They play only use the power... nothing intelegent and nothing strategy...

It is difficult for them to beat the Indonesia double player...Lucky of them can got WC 2006 because Chandra, Sigit, Halim, Tony not play.

i think cai/fu not seriously taking the match:p , just to make badminton intererting

No excuse for their lost. INA pair plays better.
Fu/Cai to gear up!

It is difficult for them to beat the Indonesia double player...Lucky of them can got WC 2006 because Chandra, Sigit, Halim, Tony not play.

that's unfair as in any game you just cannot beat everyone and there are always someone absent.
if you say like that, you can doubt any champion in the world because when he/she wins that title, ABC is absent or XYZ is already beaten by someone else...:cool:

Answer: no one is invincible. Everyone will lose some time. Some more than others.

that just proves they're all still human.
humans screw up, and thats a fact of being human.

being young simply adds to the possibilities due to inconsistencies.

kido/setiawan loses often as well, and seeminly to odd circumstances too. so why can't fu/cai? lots of other pairs lose out in such situations as often as everyone else. you win some, you lose some.

candra/gunawan has had a long time to establish several ways of going about their games. backups of backups, depending on who they go up against.
fu/cai still lacks the experience that the older pairs have. so once they run out of experience to draw upon, they run out of ideas. the result is that their game goes down the toilet.

the same goes for all of us, from club players, to amatuers, weekend warriors, beginners, the list goes on.

Answer: no one is invincible. Everyone will lose some time. Some more than others.

agree :cool: :D they just didn't perform as well...:rolleyes: ;)

Cai and Fu not consistent player. They play only use the power... nothing intelegent and nothing strategy...

It is difficult for them to beat the Indonesia double player...Lucky of them can got WC 2006 because Chandra, Sigit, Halim, Tony not play.

This is almost insulting in my opinion. I think they are one of the team that has the most strategy where having Cai in front and give chance to Fu to take advantage of his power.

They have beaten Candra/Tony in HKO and no one mentioned that.

This is almost insulting in my opinion. I think they are one of the team that has the most strategy where having Cai in front and give chance to Fu to take advantage of his power.

They have beaten Candra/Tony in HKO and no one mentioned that.

:crying: well said! :crying: is just sometimes they attack and smashes all the time then people think they don't play tatically... ;) :p :crying:

I think the top MD teams are very close - Fu/Cai, Eriksen/Lundgaad, Kidho/Setiawan, Hadiyanto/Alven, Chan/Koo and Chew/Choong. They can beat each other any time any day. Now Gunawan/Chandra seems to be even better than these teams. It's normal that 3 different teams won the WC, JO and CO.

I think the top MD teams are very close - Fu/Cai, Eriksen/Lundgaad, Kidho/Setiawan, Hadiyanto/Alven, Chan/Koo and Chew/Choong. They can beat each other any time any day. Now Gunawan/Chandra seems to be even better than these teams. It's normal that 3 different teams won the WC, JO and CO.

As mentioned by another poster, Kido/Henda adopted the right strategy in playing against Fu/Cai. They simply don't allow Fu/Cai to play their normal fast-attacking game! Ko Herry also mentioned that Luluk/Alvent nearly succeeded in doing that on Saturday but lost out eventually because Luluk had a number of unforced errors late in the second set (ie: "bolanya banyak yg mati sendiri"). You can see that when the Chinese pairs are not allowed to "express themselves", they often get frustrated and ended up sending the shuttle out or easy enough for Kido/Hendra to attack.

So, I guess it's the strategy adopted by the INA players which eventually resulted in Fu/Cai's downfall in the past 2 tourneys.

This is almost insulting in my opinion. I think they are one of the team that has the most strategy where having Cai in front and give chance to Fu to take advantage of his power.

They have beaten Candra/Tony in HKO and no one mentioned that.

Fu & Cai do have some strategies on court but in my opinion do not have great game play as the pairing of Tony Gunawan & Candra Wijaya. I mean they are both 30 years of age or older and they haven't played with each other for five or six years thus haven't had anytime to practice with each other. Even with these disadvantages on their side, they are still able to pull off 4 or 5 wins this year already where Fu & Cai and along with other top pairs from Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, Denmark, etc... were in most of those tournaments.

Fu & Cai managed to win only one tournament, the 2006 Hong Kong Open, where Tony Gunawan & Candra Wijaya entered. The rest of the tournaments they won TG/CW were absent.

Cai/Fu lost in both JO and CO, simply because the Indo's teams has figured out a good strategy to combat their strength which is speed and power smashes. I wish I can smash like Fu...:p
You can see that when the Chinese pairs are not allowed to "express themselves", they often get frustrated and ended up sending the shuttle out or easy enough for Kido/Hendra to attack.
..so, does this mean, the other MD pairs out there can now easily adapt the same approach and strategy used by the 2 INAs pairs, whenever they are drawn against Fu/Cai??..If it's simply just a matter of changing approach and strategy, then it will be quite "troublesome" for Fu/Cai in the future...:rolleyes: ;)

..so, does this mean, the other MD pairs out there can now easily adapt the same approach and strategy used by the 2 INAs pairs, whenever they are drawn against Fu/Cai??..If it's simply just a matter of changing approach and strategy, then it will be quite "troublesome" for Fu/Cai in the future...:rolleyes: ;)

Like chess ... move ... countermove...
Like border ... plug loophole ... find another loophole ... :)
Like life ... :rolleyes:

Also, having a strategy is good, but being able to execute the strategy is key ... which pair will impose their style of play in the match.

I only watched the game on TV so this is my opinion on that game

first the INA pair seems to have study FU/CAI well and play out their style.
most of the point FU/CAI got usually from smash win or defensive game.

compare WC final against the English pair, they just keep pop up the bird for Fu and allow the CHN pair play out their style. CAI block off all the net shot in the front and FU in the back. This is a good attack mode for the CHN pair and put the ENG pair into defensive position.

while CO, the bird kept rather low and rarely see the bird pop up to the CHN pair. this put CAI/FU's weapon (smashes) into the basement and force to play at the INA game. INA double has always play well using drive as the strongest weapon. This put CAI/FU into a defensive position which lead to lose later

This is almost insulting in my opinion. I think they are one of the team that has the most strategy where having Cai in front and give chance to Fu to take advantage of his power.

They have beaten Candra/Tony in HKO and no one mentioned that.

I also disagree they don't have any strategy. Their strategy is too one dimensional is all i.e. to get Fu in the back and Cai in front. Their challenge is to be more consistent and balance front/back and defence/offence roles .

Cai is actually a good net player and can place net shots and pushes well as per the HK open vs. Tony and Candra. Or in 2005 or 2005 Indo Open against Candra and SIgit. I think he is ok in the back too but not overpowering like Fu. I believe Cai plays more strategy front court when they play Malaysian or Indonesian teams and more speed & power vs. Europeans.

Fu is another story, his net play and defence is not great. Although in WCs he seemed competent. It's becuase of his liabilities that they can't play an all round game yet. But hey he's 22 so .... every year this team should get a few % better as Fu improves.... Until Cai is 30 that is then Fu needs a new partner.

Derek

The weakness in Cai/Fu's game currently is in Cai. Cai is supposed to be the "setter" for Fu, Cai is supposed to play Tony's role, and Fu is supposed to execute and finish it using his strong power.

Cai also makes unforced errors that put their position even worse, especially when playing the new scoring system.

Can you imagine if Tony plays with Fu? They might be unbeatable :)

Do you know who can help Cai/Fu right now? The answer is Christian Hadinata :)

Just my 2 cents :)

How about this equation:

Superior SKILL +Superior Speed+ Limited Power > Superior POWER + Superior Speed + Limited Skill

When you have superior skills, you can deactivate your opponents' power button, then they have effectively nothing left.

[quote=hollywood_t] Their strategy is too one dimensional is all i.e. to get Fu in the back and Cai in front.


I agree with this. They're almost unstoppable whenever they employ this strategy, but that seems to be the only reliable weapon they have. It's also too easy to read and counter, just as TG & CW or MK & HS had done.

Fu & Cai are the World Champs and the No. 1 ranked pair today. Based on these two facts, it may appear that they are the most dominant MD pair today. However, their lop sided losses in the JO & CO suggests otherwise.

When we talk about dominance, LD comes to mind because objectively speaking, it is difficult to question that he is the best MS player today. His dominance of his opponents like PG, LCW or TH, is not only because of his skill, power or quickness, but also because of his ability to employ different strategies. He can even change his strategy midway through a game just as we witnessed in the JO finals vs TH.

Can you imagine if Tony plays with Fu? They might be unbeatable :)


Dont agree on that. Fu's soft skills and defense is still weak for Tony to cover for him. He will be the 1 the opponents will pick on to attack. Fu might be big and strong but often appears kinda clumsy on court.