TheStar 5th Dec 06

OLYMPIC champion Taufik Hidayat took aim at the Chinese yesterday after losing to arch rival Lin Dan in three enthralling sets, telling them to put a sock in it.

Taufik accused 23-year-old Lin Dan of arrogance on Friday but with a second successive victory over the 26-year-old Indonesian in the men's team semi-final tie, the Chinese star again proved action was louder than words.

Taufik, known as the “bad boy” of the sport for his unpredictable temperament, refused to rise to questions about the reaction to his comments and instead turned his fire on the Chinese media.

“I don't want to talk about him (Lin),” said Taufik, who is playing his last Asian Games.

“The Chinese press is always talking about me. Why talk? I just want to play. It's always the Chinese media that talk about me. What's the problem?”

Lin Dan also took a pot shot at the press but he did not lay it specifically at the feet of his domestic media.

“They (the media) just took a few words to create a story. Basically I don't really care,” he said.

Taufik had only himself to blame for the loss and will rue conceding a comfortable first game lead of 13-9 to end up losing it 22-20.

He bounced back in the second to take it convincingly at 21-13 with both players entertaining the large crowd with some splendid rallies.

However, despite winning the first point of the rubber game, Taufik was always chasing the match and he went down 12-21.

There was little sign of the animosity between the two at the end as they shook hands with Lin Dan even patting Taufik on the back and both paid each other compliments afterwards.

China went on to win the contest 3-1.

... there he goes again.... blasting other ppl for his loss....

LMAO! Too much drama.

He may blame on Lin Dan's parent next. If Lin Dan was never borned, Chen Jin would have played first single instead and Taufik would have won. :D :D :D

“They (the media) just took a few words to create a story. Basically I don't really care,” he said.

:)

“They (the media) just took a few words to create a story. Basically I don't really care,” he said.

:)

doesn't this proves LD isn't as arrogance as 'some' people say he is? Even after media had reported that the motor mouth bad mouthed LD, LD didn't say anything bad about TH and plus LD diverted the 'mess' onto the media instead.

TH vented frustration to media now because he learned that pre-match verbal attack didn't affected LD performance at all so he goes after the media. You can't blame the media for writing about him (TH) when he give them material to write about.

... there he goes again.... blasting other ppl for his loss....I don't read any blasting there. It sounds to me as if the media were fishing for a juicy quote like they got on the weekend and Taufik got pissed off. If I had just lost a big match after being caught putting my foot in my mouth about my opponent, I think I would get a little frustrated too.

yah, but not until to that point...

they can have a taufik movie trilogy already

they can have a taufik movie trilogy already

hahha.. is he that famous?? :p

they can have a taufik movie trilogy already

Sure:

Taufik Hidiyat
Taufik Hidiyat Strikes Back
Return of the Taufik

Or Taufik Hidyat Got Dinked Again!

Sure:

Taufik Hidiyat
Taufik Hidiyat Strikes Back
Return of the Taufik

Or Taufik Hidyat Got Dinked Again!

Naw, there's no way I could be Taufik in anything badminton related.

The only thing I could beat Taufik in would be getting to the buffet line. :p

He may blame on Lin Dan's parent next. If Lin Dan was never borned, Chen Jin would have played first single instead and Taufik would have won. :D :D :D


I don't know about that because he did lose to Chen Jin at the World Cup recently.

I don't know about that because he did lose to Chen Jin at the World Cup recently.

No... China open 06 quarter finals. The 3rd game was amazing and showed how Chen Jin could be the next world championship material.:D

I don't read any blasting there. It sounds to me as if the media were fishing for a juicy quote like they got on the weekend and Taufik got pissed off. If I had just lost a big match after being caught putting my foot in my mouth about my opponent, I think I would get a little frustrated too.
Exactly. The media will give any quote Taufik makes a full story because they know people will react this way. Even Lin Dan agrees as you've read in the article. Did anybody pay even the slightest bit of attention to:

There was little sign of the animosity between the two at the end as they shook hands with Lin Dan even patting Taufik on the back and both paid each other compliments afterwards.
I think people should just give Taufik a rest. It seems anything he does he's going to get attacked for it. Anything he does will make the papers - any little quote. He's given us two brilliant games against LD in the space of less than a week. There was no walking off, giving up or anything. Yet nobody seems to notice that. Everyone is far to busy focusing on the latest "big news" about him. It's like hollywood celebrities. Any little bit of information they can get no matter how trivial will be printed.

LOTR(lord of the racket): fellowship of the PBSI(taufik being so loyal would use all methods to win for PBSI)

LOTR : the 2 netpoles(towers), actually no relation just a bad line call and he walks out

LOTR : the return of the what? is he a king? maybe yes maybe not, but he has nvr reached world number though being able to have a 11 point lead against LinDan, so is he a king? dont think so

we can use terminator
terminated 1:
taufik sent from the future to make your average badminton match less exciting by not giving in his best during play.

terminated 2: bad line judgement day
oh is it in or out? i dunno but taufik definitely is out, as he walked ouy after a bad line call
however *taufik: I'll be back*

Terminated 3: rise of the more worthy players
more players worth to watch their matches come in, taufik's matches get boring.

No... China open 06 quarter finals. The 3rd game was amazing and showed how Chen Jin could be the next world championship material.:D
OG08 is 2 years away. By then, CH, PG, TH and LCW may not be a threat to the gold. If CJ meets LD in final, and they are allowed to fight it out and not game fixing, I would bet my buck 49 cents on CJ taking gold. 2 years is a long time for CJ to gain experience and improve his game. Just my opinion.

Exactly. The media will give any quote Taufik makes a full story because they know people will react this way. Even Lin Dan agrees as you've read in the article. Did anybody pay even the slightest bit of attention to:



I think people should just give Taufik a rest. It seems anything he does he's going to get attacked for it. Anything he does will make the papers - any little quote. He's given us two brilliant games against LD in the space of less than a week. There was no walking off, giving up or anything. Yet nobody seems to notice that. Everyone is far to busy focusing on the latest "big news" about him. It's like hollywood celebrities. Any little bit of information they can get no matter how trivial will be printed.

i know, i like taufik alot especially when he is playing at 100% effort, but he does have a big attitude problem, which seldom lets us see some good matches from him

OG08 is 2 years away. By then, CH, PG, TH and LCW may not be a threat to the gold. If CJ meets LD in final, and they are allowed to fight it out and not game fixing, I would bet my buck 49 cents on CJ taking gold. 2 years is a long time for CJ to gain experience and improve his game. Just my opinion.

Has CJ played LD before? If so how did it go, and when?

OG08 is 2 years away. By then, CH, PG, TH and LCW may not be a threat to the gold. If CJ meets LD in final, and they are allowed to fight it out and not game fixing, I would bet my buck 49 cents on CJ taking gold. 2 years is a long time for CJ to gain experience and improve his game. Just my opinion.

Buck 49 cents??? That's just enough to get a $1.39 McDonald special plus GST. I doubt anyone will take up your bet.:p

i know, i like taufik alot especially when he is playing at 100% effort, but he does have a big attitude problem, which seldom lets us see some good matches from him

Yeah there's no question that he isn't the best at controlling his emotions :). I just think people take it all a bit seriously, and let what they read in the papers affect how they see him as a person. After all, the media makes it's money from stories like this. They aren't out to make everyone look like angels.

Exactly. The media will give any quote Taufik makes a full story because they know people will react this way. Even Lin Dan agrees as you've read in the article. Did anybody pay even the slightest bit of attention to:


I think people should just give Taufik a rest. It seems anything he does he's going to get attacked for it. Anything he does will make the papers - any little quote. He's given us two brilliant games against LD in the space of less than a week. There was no walking off, giving up or anything. Yet nobody seems to notice that. Everyone is far to busy focusing on the latest "big news" about him. It's like hollywood celebrities. Any little bit of information they can get no matter how trivial will be printed.

Remember, reporters gave TH quotes. If the quotes were inaccurate or made up, TH and/or pbsi will slam china media hard and fast, since they can't beat china on courts. If it walk and quack like a duck, chances are it's a duck. I know many here had tried downplaying TH's words. Surprisingly, neither TH nor pbsi fight back or demand a correction from china news media:rolleyes:

OF COURSE TAUFIK PLAYED TO THE BITTER END THIS TIME:

1. He boasted the asian game is his moment to take gold. He trained and well prepared for this asian game, including pre-match jabs on LD to marinate his opponent. Tough luck, LD is one tough meat.

Most Importantly:
2. TH had said he will win gold for his father-in-law. The aftermath of shaming his father-in-law and family name by a walk out (HKO) or folding card (JO) would be far far worst than losing with best effort to LD. Family fortune or future career is on the line here if he screw up ethically.

TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice.

Remember, reporters gave TH quotes. If the quotes were inaccurate or made up, TH and/or pbsi will slam china media hard and fast, since they can't beat china on courts. If there's smoke, usually something is burning. I know many here had downplayed TH's words. Surprisingly, neither TH nor pbsi fight or demand a correction from china news media:rolleyes:

OF COURSE TAUFIK PLAYED TO THEN BITTER END THIS TIME:

1. He boasted the asian game is his moment to take gold. He trained and well prepared for this asian game, including pre-match jabs on LD to marinate his opponent. Tough luck, LD is one tough meat.

Most Importantly:
2. TH had said he will win gold for his father-in-law. The aftermath of shaming his father-in-law and family name by a walk out (HKO) or folding card (JO) would be far far worst than losing with best effort to LD. Family fortune or future career on the line here if he screw up ethically.

TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice.

I know that's what you like to think, I'm not trying to change your mind :). But I certainly don't believe I'm the one being "fooled".

I know that's what you like to think, I'm not trying to change your mind :). But I certainly don't believe I'm the one being "fooled".

but my beliefs are back by proofs. You can change my mind but u have to change the fact as well.

I know that's what you like to think, I'm not trying to change your mind :). But I certainly don't believe I'm the one being "fooled".

but my beliefs are back by proofs. You can change my mind but u have to change the fact as well.

Fools never believe they've been fooled or else we wouldnt call them fools.:p

Has CJ played LD before? If so how did it go, and when?
TaipeiOpen06...watch the 2nd game and read the threads in BC to form your opinion whether the game is fixed.

Buck 49 cents??? That's just enough to get a $1.39 McDonald special plus GST. I doubt anyone will take up your bet.:p
A McDonald muffin/coffee combo plus GST costs $1.47, 2 cents spare left...lol.:p :p

Sure:

Taufik Hidiyat
Taufik Hidiyat Strikes Back
Return of the Taufik
LOTR(lord of the racket): fellowship of the PBSI(taufik being so loyal would use all methods to win for PBSI)

LOTR : the 2 netpoles(towers), actually no relation just a bad line call and he walks out

LOTR : the return of the what? is he a king? maybe yes maybe not, but he has nvr reached world number though being able to have a 11 point lead against LinDan, so is he a king? dont think so

we can use terminator
terminated 1:
taufik sent from the future to make your average badminton match less exciting by not giving in his best during play.

terminated 2: bad line judgement day
oh is it in or out? i dunno but taufik definitely is out, as he walked ouy after a bad line call
however *taufik: I'll be back*

Terminated 3: rise of the more worthy players
more players worth to watch their matches come in, taufik's matches get boring.
..hehe, i like that, Dan and yy_ling...and Taufik can call upon our own indra to be the screenwriter/director of those movies...:p :eek: :D ;) :cool:

Fools never believe they've been fooled or else we wouldnt call them fools.:p

Tsk tsk, my point exactly :p.

but my beliefs are back by proofs. You can change my mind but u have to change the fact as well.

What you may see to be proofs/facts others may not. Same applies to me, but just like you my opinions on the matter will never change. As what I see as facts differ to you :).

keep the drama rolling in

Tsk tsk, my point exactly :p.



What you may see to be proofs/facts others may not. Same applies to me, but just like you my opinions on the matter will never change. As what I see as facts differ to you :).

Lets not beat around the bush.
I countered your original points with publicly made statments by taufik.
Now, what evidence you have to counter mine?

What you may see to be proofs/facts others may not. Same applies to me, but just like you my opinions on the matter will never change. As what I see as facts differ to you :).

:eek::eek::eek: I suppose you see the Earth as flat...with you kind of thinking. There is only a thin line between being igorant and foolish...:rolleyes:

Wonder if this talk about Taufik bad-mouthing LD is all made up by the press? Hmm, that's interesting ....

Two badminton powerhouse clash, one has to go down....

take it easy, taufik, you already earned a lot of trophies.

Wonder if this talk about Taufik bad-mouthing LD is all made up by the press? Hmm, that's interesting ....

that's going to be interesting...

can you imagine that both CHN and INA media making up words and use it as a motivation?

Remember, reporters gave TH quotes. If the quotes were inaccurate or made up, TH and/or pbsi will slam china media hard and fast, since they can't beat china on courts. If it walk and quack like a duck, chances are it's a duck. I know many here had tried downplaying TH's words. Surprisingly, neither TH nor pbsi fight back or demand a correction from china news media:rolleyes:

OF COURSE TAUFIK PLAYED TO THE BITTER END THIS TIME:

1. He boasted the asian game is his moment to take gold. He trained and well prepared for this asian game, including pre-match jabs on LD to marinate his opponent. Tough luck, LD is one tough meat.

Most Importantly:
2. TH had said he will win gold for his father-in-law. The aftermath of shaming his father-in-law and family name by a walk out (HKO) or folding card (JO) would be far far worst than losing with best effort to LD. Family fortune or future career is on the line here if he screw up ethically.

TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice.
lol you certainly love LinDan and hate Taufik

Remember, reporters gave TH quotes. If the quotes were inaccurate or made up, TH and/or pbsi will slam china media hard and fast, since they can't beat china on courts. If it walk and quack like a duck, chances are it's a duck. I know many here had tried downplaying TH's words. Surprisingly, neither TH nor pbsi fight back or demand a correction from china news media:rolleyes:

OF COURSE TAUFIK PLAYED TO THE BITTER END THIS TIME:

1. He boasted the asian game is his moment to take gold. He trained and well prepared for this asian game, including pre-match jabs on LD to marinate his opponent. Tough luck, LD is one tough meat.

Most Importantly:
2. TH had said he will win gold for his father-in-law. The aftermath of shaming his father-in-law and family name by a walk out (HKO) or folding card (JO) would be far far worst than losing with best effort to LD. Family fortune or future career is on the line here if he screw up ethically.

TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice.
cooler, I'm afraid I have to respond once again to your misunderstanding concept about TH that leads to unfair belief and disrespection on him. This is how I think you should view him...

In order to exist together in this world, people must give something and take something in return. It's the same matters between athletes and their fans! They love each other because they give something to and take something from each other. The athletes give the fans a physical entertainment whilst the fans give the athletes the money, praise, etc.

Then, what's wrong with TH's relation with his fans or badminton spectators? I'm sure TH's behaviour does disappoint his realistic fans and badminton spectators without any doubt. The point is: Does TH give less to his fans and spectators compared to any other player? OR...
The badminton community itself that doesn't realize and understand what TH gives to them?! --> Especially the fans of other players who don't even give the slightest thought to understand TH just to disrespect TH and to ultimately feel great about their own heros!

TH's lack motivation on not so big events is one thing that people fail to understand, respect, and positively view.
Here is how you understand him: There is no doubt that TH is a badminton prodigy considering his huge natural talents (facts prove this). Next you just have to realize that a talented person always has different expectations than normal people.
After you understand him, I hope u can respect him.. and finally
Here is how you view his different expectation positively: It's true that TH has lack motivation on smaller events, but we all knows that TH has the greatest motivation to win big events than any other players! TH built his unparalleled confidence and motivation to win the olympics, asean games by doing something that no other players did....TH made promises to his fans, country, and his loved ones! TH really put his whole pride on the line which no players do! TH's expectation is to win the big events by putting his pride on the line as his unparalled motivation and finally, feel the greatest ACHIEVEMENT OR FAILURE people can have!! TH's unique expectation is without doubt one important thing that makes him the only single player ever to win both world camps and olympic games on the planet!! TH's different expectation is actually quite impressive and that is truly the main reason for the existence of his diehard fans. What TH really wants to give for badminton spectators is as simply as this:
I don't come out often, but when I do...It's gonna be every single piece of ME!

I know that's what you like to think, I'm not trying to change your mind :). But I certainly don't believe I'm the one being "fooled".
I agree with you phaarix, TH's different expectation that we can enjoy is something that you can instinctively see whilst cooler can't.

ssuly very very well said

oh come one you guys! do you take what the media gave you seriously???
if i were TH and LD, would we be patting each others back after a hard fought match if we really took the crap seriously??? i mean, the media thought they'd hype up the TH vs LD match... but what they dont understand is that, they dont need to do it because TH vs LD match would be always a classic...(given that TH doesnt walk out:) )

Lets not beat around the bush.
I countered your original points with publicly made statments by taufik.
Now, what evidence you have to counter mine?

Umm, yeah well like I've been trying to say, I'm not trying to change your mind so why the need to provide evidence of what is simply my opinion? I haven't seen a lot of evidence from you yourself either. Your arguments are mostly comprised of opinions rather than facts and there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that could possibly change my mind on Taufik is knowing him personally. So don't bother trying :).

i agree with ssuly that the burden of winning a tournament really is on taufik's shoulders.. indonesia had never had another player as great as taufik since 1990's.... the expectation for the prodigy was veeeery high... and as far as i can see, only TH has the guts to promise his countrymen that he'll win a gold... even LD, i think, will be unsure of making that promise...

where's indra?.....he should have posted somethin by now

Umm, yeah well like I've been trying to say, I'm not trying to change your mind so why the need to provide evidence of what is simply my opinion? I haven't seen a lot of evidence from you yourself either. Your arguments are mostly comprised of opinions rather than facts and there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that could possibly change my mind on Taufik is knowing him personally. So don't bother trying :).


What a hypocrite post! Why the hell are you still posting here and replying to other people's posts if you are not trying to change other people's minds? Don't tell me you are just exercising your freedom of speech. What's the point of having freedom of speech if you cannot be bothered to have your voice heard, and what's the point of having your voice heard if you don't want to change other people's minds?

Why don't you tell us what kind of evidence that can convince you? All I see is that you say something, then cooler counters it with some facts, then you say you don't believe the facts he gave. You don't seem to accept anyone's view as long as they are different from yours.

It looks like this thread is as interesting and as highly charged as the real battle between TH and LD. ;)

cooler, I'm afraid I have to respond once again to your misunderstanding concept about TH that leads to unfair belief and disrespection on him. This is how I think you should view him...

In order to exist together in this world, people must give something and take something in return. It's the same matters between athletes and their fans! They love each other because they give something to and take something from each other. The athletes give the fans a physical entertainment whilst the fans give the athletes the money, praise, etc.

Then, what's wrong with TH's relation with his fans or badminton spectators? I'm sure TH's behaviour does disappoint his realistic fans and badminton spectators without any doubt. The point is: Does TH give less to his fans and spectators compared to any other player? OR...
The badminton community itself that doesn't realize and understand what TH gives to them?! --> Especially the fans of other players who don't even give the slightest thought to understand TH just to disrespect TH and to ultimately feel great about their own heros!

TH's lack motivation on not so big events is one thing that people fail to understand, respect, and positively view.
Here is how you understand him: There is no doubt that TH is a badminton prodigy considering his huge natural talents (facts prove this). Next you just have to realize that a talented person always has different expectations than normal people.
After you understand him, I hope u can respect him.. and finally
Here is how you view his different expectation positively: It's true that TH has lack motivation on smaller events, but we all knows that TH has the greatest motivation to win big events than any other players! TH built his unparalleled confidence and motivation to win the olympics, asean games by doing something that no other players did....TH made promises to his fans, country, and his loved ones! TH really put his whole pride on the line which no players do! TH's expectation is to win the big events by putting his pride on the line as his unparalled motivation and finally, feel the greatest ACHIEVEMENT OR FAILURE people can have!! TH's unique expectation is without doubt one important thing that makes him the only single player ever to win both world camps and olympic games on the planet!! TH's different expectation is actually quite impressive and that is truly the main reason for the existence of his diehard fans. What TH really wants to give for badminton spectators is as simply as this:
I don't come out often, but when I do...It's gonna be every single piece of ME!

What exactly is your point? :confused:

What exactly is your point? :confused:
I'm sorry if my explanation is kinda long and it might lose people easily. However, each paragraph is related to each other in order to explain step by step how we can understand one aspect of TH's "disappointing" behavior, respect, and view it positively to enjoy his presence in badminton community. That "disappointing" behavior is his lack of motivation in not so big events.

My sole motivation to respond is because Cooler misunderstood TH by saying to phaarix: "TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice."
TH doesn't deceive his fans by fighting to the very end on big events, that's how TH entertains his fans with his unique expectation.

I hope this will help to clarify. Thanks for your concern.:D:D:D

i agree with phaarix, cooler is kind of aggressive against taufik, although even I dont like Taufik's attitude problems, no one is perfect.
sometimes media do come out with lots of nonsense especially when badminton is getting more and more popular there will be money to make if they write on a hot topic.
1) the LD fans hate Taufik blindly cause they think he hates LD
2) the TH fans hate LD fans blindly cause LD fans hate taufik
3) us badminton fans sit down and think what went wrong

im sure we are all categorized under 3 which is for badminton fans who will sit down adn think right?

ssuly very very well said

lung5488, thanks for your compliment.:D

TH doesn't deceive his fans by fighting to the very end on big events, that's how TH entertains his fans with his unique expectation.


Then how do you explain TH's quitting of HK open and his total lack of competitiveness in the 3rd set of Japan open against Lin Dan?

Thanks, it's been fun (or not), but it's time to unsubscribe. :p

Then how do you explain TH's quitting of HK open and his total lack of competitiveness in the 3rd set of Japan open against Lin Dan?

thats b/c for ssuly's definition, HKO and JO aren't big events? :P

but hey, regardless of how many weeks ahead TH had trained for this event, he still lose to LD

whats the excuse this time?

i agree with phaarix, cooler is kind of aggressive against taufik, although even I dont like Taufik's attitude problems, no one is perfect.
sometimes media do come out with lots of nonsense especially when badminton is getting more and more popular there will be money to make if they write on a hot topic.
1) the LD fans hate Taufik blindly cause they think he hates LD
2) the TH fans hate LD fans blindly cause LD fans hate taufik
3) us badminton fans sit down and think what went wrong

im sure we are all categorized under 3 which is for badminton fans who will sit down adn think right?

yy_ling, what a great straight forward point! However, it's really hard as human to completely ignore our personal feelings, prejudices, etc. It's not a problem if we deeply think our hero is the best, but we just have to realize that people out there deeply think their hero is the best. Just be warned that the greatest enemy is ourselves who tend to spit out those deep thoughts to attack and hurt people.;)

i agree with phaarix, cooler is kind of aggressive against taufik, although even I dont like Taufik's attitude problems, no one is perfect.
sometimes media do come out with lots of nonsense especially when badminton is getting more and more popular there will be money to make if they write on a hot topic.
1) the LD fans hate Taufik blindly cause they think he hates LD
2) the TH fans hate LD fans blindly cause LD fans hate taufik
3) us badminton fans sit down and think what went wrong

im sure we are all categorized under 3 which is for badminton fans who will sit down adn think right?

LD fans hate Taufik blindly? Have you actually seen any LD fan who initiates attacks on TH? Every time there is an argument between LD, TH and their fans, the insitigator is almost always TH's fans or TH himself. Take this AG for example, TH was the one who told the reporter that he disliked LD.

You cannot blame the media for reporting inflammatory remarks from famous people. Very few medias would make up stories to sell -- unless they want their credibility totally ruined. TH made an inflammatory remark against LD in public with the full knowledge that it would be reported everywhere. Then when he doesn't get his way, he just turns around and blaming the media for their honest report. I have to say this is really low.

What a hypocrite post! Why the hell are you still posting here and replying to other people's posts if you are not trying to change other people's minds? Don't tell me you are just exercising your freedom of speech. What's the point of having freedom of speech if you cannot be bothered to have your voice heard, and what's the point of having your voice heard if you don't want to change other people's minds?

Why don't you tell us what kind of evidence that can convince you? All I see is that you say something, then cooler counters it with some facts, then you say you don't believe the facts he gave. You don't seem to accept anyone's view as long as they are different from yours.
Thanks for that... how friendly. You might not undertand and it's pretty obvious you don't, but I said I can't change cooler's mind. I didn't say I'm making my posts for no point whatsoever. Cooler obviously has his mind set straight and I'm unable to change that. And don't even think about saying I don't respect other people's views. I'm trying to defend my own as certain people *cough* are all to eager to attack them. I have no clue as to where you got that idea >_>. I may not personally agree with his facts but it doesn't mean I can't see where he got them. Besides it's quite obvious to me you don't respect my opinion a single bit.

I've been refraining from using "evidence" as to why I think this way in my most recent posts because of this "attacking". It's people like you that ruin a discussion. And if you continue the way you're going you're going to get yet another thread locked.

Thanks but no thanks, take your anger somewhere else.

(Oh and I'm fully expecting a harshly worded response trying to patronize me further :( - If you really care so little for what I'm saying you wouldn't bother)

thats b/c for ssuly's definition, HKO and JO aren't big events? :P

but hey, regardless of how many weeks ahead TH had trained for this event, he still lose to LD

whats the excuse this time?

hydrocyanic, please be careful for distinguishing between player's mind and fan's mind. TH always admits the greatness of his opponent on court despite of his lost, TH also regards LD as the world's best player currently. However, some of TH's fans find excuses for him at smaller events because they realize TH's unique expectation (only motivated for big events).

Thanks for that... how friendly. You might not undertand and it's pretty obvious you don't,

You are welcome and I never pretended that I wanted to be friendly to you. After all, I was calling you out for being hyprocitical.


but I said I can't change cooler's mind.


Actually you can, cooler seems to be a reasonable and rational person. So if you could argue logically, objectively and with facts, I'm sure you can convince him -- you can convince me too.


I didn't say I'm making my posts for no point whatsoever. Cooler obviously has his mind set straight and I'm unable to change that.

Again, argue your point with logic and objectivety and facts, you can set him and me straight.


And don't even think about saying I don't respect other people's views.


I never said you didn't respect other people's views, I just said you were not willing to accept them because they are different from yours.


I'm trying to defend my own as certain people *cough* are all to eager to attack them.

It's human nature to be right and truthful, that's why people tend to call you out when they think you are talking nonsense.


I have no clue as to where you got that idea >_>.


I got that idea from your posts.


I may not personally agree with his facts but it doesn't mean I can't see where he got them. Besides it's quite obvious to me you don't respect my opinion a single bit.

I don't respect your opinion because it doesn't make sense. If you disagree with someone, you have to justify your disagreement. If you are disputing someone's version of facts, you have to either argue logically why their facts are wrong, or provide contradicting facts. You have done neither, that's why cooler and I don't hold your opinion very hightly.


I've been refraining from using "evidence" as to why I think this way in my most recent posts because of this "attacking". It's people like you that ruin a discussion. And if you continue the way you're going you're going to get yet another thread locked.

We are ruining a discussion? What discussion? In a proper discussion, people argue with logic and facts, your participation in this discussion lacks both, and you are calling us the ones ruining the discussion?


Thanks but no thanks, take your anger somewhere else.


I don't angry, I get even. Take your nonsense else where.



(Oh and I'm fully expecting a harshly worded response trying to patronize me further :( - If you really care so little for what I'm saying you wouldn't bother)

I'm only giving you what you deserve. Don't start any trouble if you cannot handle any.

TH always admits the greatness of his opponent on court despite of his lost,

Always? I seem to remember that a few years ago in Japan open, TH was defeated by Chen Hong, and after the match, TH said he didn't try that hard and he let CH win because he felt sorry for CH.


However, some of TH's fans find excuses for him at smaller events because they realize TH's unique expectation (only motivated for big events).

This argument doesn't fly at all. How do you define a big event? Is a big event one that TH has won? TH lost in WC and AG which are the biggest events by anyone's standard. What's his and his fans excuse for that?

Honestly, I don't care when TH's fans finding excuses for TH's loses -- I find it amusing actually. What gets me uncomfortable is when TH and his fans start personal attacks against other players to justify TH's loses.

Then how do you explain TH's quitting of HK open and his total lack of competitiveness in the 3rd set of Japan open against Lin Dan?

newplayer, as far as I know from the facts, TH is only hugely motivated in:
1. Events for his country: thomas cup, indonesia open.
2. Once in four years individual events: Olympics, Asean Games.
3. Old World Championship. (the new WC is held every year and TH says he is not interested anymore).
4. All England (the oldest mens single competition): this is the only one TH hasn't won yet.

TH has less motivation even in other six stars open event except the Indonesian open that he won six times already.

newplayer, as far as I know from the facts, TH is only hugely motivated in:
1. Events for his country: thomas cup, indonesia open.
2. Once in four years individual events: Olympics, Asean Games.
3. Old World Championship. (the new WC is held every year and TH says he is not interested anymore).
4. All England (the oldest mens single competition): this is the only one TH hasn't won yet.

TH has less motivation even in other six stars open event except the Indonesian open that he won six times already.

If that was the truth, I'm just a bit puzzled by the fact that he took part in Japan open, HK open, and China open this year, but failed to participate in All England. What's the point of entering a tournament that doesn't interest you? Would TH be doing a favour to Indonesia by letting someone else taking his sopt in those tournaments he doesn't care about? How do you explain this?

I also seem to remember that TH gave up rather easily in the second set of the final of the Surdiman cup in 2005. What's the deal with that?

You are welcome and I never pretended that I wanted to be friendly to you. After all, I was calling you out for being hyprocitical.

Actually you can, cooler seems to be a reasonable and rational person. So if you could argue logically, objectively and with facts, I'm sure you can convince him -- you can convince me too.

Again, argue your point with logic and objectivety and facts, you can set him and me straight.

I never said you didn't respect other people's views, I just said you were not willing to accept them because they are different from yours.

It's human nature to be right and truthful, that's why people tend to call you out when they think you are talking nonsense.

I got that idea from your posts.

I don't respect your opinion because it doesn't make sense. If you disagree with someone, you have to justify your disagreement. If you are disputing someone's version of facts, you have to either argue logically why their facts are wrong, or provide contradicting facts. You have done neither, that's why cooler and I don't hold your opinion very hightly.

We are ruining a discussion? What discussion? In a proper discussion, people argue with logic and facts, your participation in this discussion lacks both, and you are calling us the ones ruining the discussion?

I don't angry, I get even. Take your nonsense else where.

I'm only giving you what you deserve. Don't start any trouble if you cannot handle any.

Ok look, this discussion has been taking place over many threads for quite a long time, if you want to read my longer, more "reasoned" posts take a look through my post history. If you think they're "nonsense" so be it. Think what you want.

It is not easy to change cooler's mind as he is obviously dead set in what he believes and THAT is also human nature. Don't tell me you cant see that.

Once again I personally feel I justified my views in other posts - look through my post history. Depending on my mood at the time of posting some of it may be a little over the top, but for the most part I believe I've expressed myself well enough.

There's no "we" or "us" in what I said about ruining a discussion, it's you I was getting at. Your posts are very provocative although I will admit that you're getting a bit better. I could actually see some reasoning and slf restraint behind the quoted post.

Once again, lately my posts have been more in defense of my right to express an opinion without getting it bashed rather than actually making the statement itself.

I don't believe I am speaking nonsense. Tell me did you really need to say that? In a successful forum people respect each other and you're making me out to be some sort of idiot which I won't take kindly to. It's provocation and it's not needed.

I just don't want another thread to unnessecarily go in the same direction the other did. I'll admit at least you aren't using the same harsh language you were there but I still find your posts highly offensive. While on that topic I believe you said something along the lines of "I don't know what planet you're from but all adults swear when they get angry". Well for a start you just contradicted yourself there as you just said you "don't get angry" secondly self restraint is an important thing when dealing with other people. I honestly don't believe you need to type out swear words to express how you're feeling.

Finally what's this rubbish about "don't start any trouble if you cannot handle any". I'd think it'd be quite obvious by now I'm hardly trying to start any trouble. If anything I'm trying to settle things down a bit, and you're not helping.

I'm sorry to everyone not involved in this but newplayer, I have very little patience for people like you. You've put me down, patronized me time and time again I'm not going to stand for it.

In fact I'd be quite happy if this thread was locked.

let Taufik Alone,

He's Just A Human :)


Taufik Has Gave His Best At Team Event, I Hope He Will Payback In Ms Event

TaipeiOpen06...watch the 2nd game and read the threads in BC to form your opinion whether the game is fixed.

Also MO06? But these two matches have indications of being more fake than fixed. Fake is worse than fixed. Fake means CJ's job was to let LD win with minimum effort so that he's in the best possible shape when he met LCW. So if purists want to extend logic, then LD's MO06 and TPO06 titles can be considered fake,in their minds of course.
Fixed would be more like CH and BCL 's matches vs LD in WC06. It's better than fake cos at least the first game would be real so we get one fantastic treat of real, honest badminton but the rest of the match would be careful badminton not to close the match against orders. Of course it is likely LD might defeat CH and BCL regardless ( altho we know ,among CHN compatriots CH is No. 1) but LYB needed to be sure otherwise LD may not be WN1 right after WC and may be ridiculed for not being able to win WC (again!)if he did not win. (Would someone prove me wrong about the ranking points and this theory that LD definitely wouldn't be WN1 if he had lost to CH and also likewise if he had lost to BCL?)
Another likely fixed match would be CO06 where LD lost to BCL by waiting for BCL to catch up when he reached score 17 with some 10 point lead.I did predict that outcome that 'it's LD's turn to lose!' but some post replied with disbelief that LYB would fix that. Two possible reasons for this unbelievable outcome.The ranking points more needed by BCL and guilty conscience so return of favour. The difference between LD vs CH and BCL is that LD never masked orders and was determined to let his fans 'understand' whereas CH & BCL masked their fate very well.

Always? I seem to remember that a few years ago in Japan open, TH was defeated by Chen Hong, and after the match, TH said he didn't try that hard and he let CH win because he felt sorry for CH.



This argument doesn't fly at all. How do you define a big event? Is a big event one that TH has won? TH lost in WC and AG which are the biggest events by anyone's standard. What's his and his fans excuse for that?

Honestly, I don't care when TH's fans finding excuses for TH's loses -- I find it amusing actually. What gets me uncomfortable is when TH and his fans start personal attacks against other players to justify TH's loses.
A few years ago?? I'm sorry I was not involved in badminton yet at that time. However, I can assure you that since TH won the WC 2005, TH always admits his opponent's strength on court despite his lost. And if you're going to talk bad about TH just because of that only one event out of many, I don't think it's a good idea.

The answer of ur second paragraph is in my previous post.

I'm completely aware of the situation you explained in the third paragraph.
I agree that some of TH's fans are the obvious initiator of this arguments and that means they attack other fans first. However, they can not really be blamed on that because they instinctively understand TH's unique expectation, that is only highly motivated for big events (TH's big events). TH's fans can not be blamed because the silent situation attack them first... if they don't react, TH's unique expectation is going to be disregarded by other fans!

Those kind of TH's fans are annoying if they still try to find excuses for TH when TH lost on the big events.
However...
Other fans are also annoying if they disregard TH's unique expectation and think their heros are better by winning TH on smaller events.

Peace will come if:

TH's fans admit TH's lost on big events without any excuses.

AND

Other fans understand and respect TH's unique expectation by measuring his capability on the big events.

SSULY,

thanks :)

If that was the truth, I'm just a bit puzzled by the fact that he took part in Japan open, HK open, and China open this year, but failed to participate in All England. What's the point of entering a tournament that doesn't interest you? Would TH be doing a favour to Indonesia by letting someone else taking his sopt in those tournaments he doesn't care about? How do you explain this?

I also seem to remember that TH gave up rather easily in the second set of the final of the Surdiman cup in 2005. What's the deal with that?
newplayer, TH was actually injured during his training to prepare for the AE. It was a pretty bad knee injury so that he couldn't participate.

TH might not be that personally motivated for the open event, but what could you do if you were him? If you were the country's number one player demanded by your fans through out the world to perform?! INA only has two other men singles (sony and simon) who are good enough to carry the country's image at the world stage.
In fact, INA needs TH more than TH needs INA! INA didn't want to repeat the same mistake it did to Mia Audina (a once really talented INA women singles who moved to Netherlands)

Once again, newplayer, no one is really questioning the facts that TH also fights to the end for his country! So many facts support this! Moreover, you say that you seem to remember?! Even if what you thought was true... picking only one vague event as your support against soo many other facts against you is not a good idea.

Why is TH's story always featured? This is more like a gossip column rather than a proper news about Doha sports event!
Why not make a heading to feature why Boonsak didn't deliver for Thailand? Or more why not just feature the story on LD's victory instead?

The fact is TH is a great force to be reckon with in badminton therefore they decided to feature him on the heading of its own in order to sell interesting stories... The media acknowledged his great achievements such as Olympic and World champion... So should some of you here

For all those who are constantly attacking TH for nothing, the article itself did not mention that he blamed his loss on the media, he is just expressing his disgust for the stupid speculation and attention on him by the media constantly..
So please people be more sensible and get over this crap, seriously its getting annoying and meaningless, everytime I login to this forum I discovered another TH bashing thread. 1 or 2 is fine, but the bloody thing is all over the entire forum, u cant just click on any recent event in the forum without discovering immature people posting thoughtless comments...

I have certainly learned that its not nice to bash people's favorite players, I know how it hurt others when I bash about LD's MO incident and Punch Gunalan. So I am here to ask all of you to keep your nasty comment to yourself. Learn to accept what is happening and suck it in. Peace

Ok look, this discussion has been taking place over many threads for quite a long time, if you want to read my longer, more "reasoned" posts take a look through my post history. If you think they're "nonsense" so be it. Think what you want.

This won't do, I'm not going to look through over 300 posts of yours to cherry pick the ones that would favour you -- this is your job.


It is not easy to change cooler's mind as he is obviously dead set in what he believes and THAT is also human nature. Don't tell me you cant see that.

That just sounds like you've decided to quit before you even started. Have you entertained another possibility -- cooler is right and you are wrong?


Once again I personally feel I justified my views in other posts - look through my post history. Depending on my mood at the time of posting some of it may be a little over the top, but for the most part I believe I've expressed myself well enough.

Again, it's your responsibility to come up with the facts to justify your opinion -- then I will be the judge of your justifications.


There's no "we" or "us" in what I said about ruining a discussion, it's you I was getting at.

Against, stop posting rubbish and nonsense on a public forum if you don't want to be called out. I am ruining your trolling and I don't feel sorry about it.


Your posts are very provocative although I will admit that you're getting a bit better. I could actually see some reasoning and slf restraint behind the quoted post.

You think my posts are provocative because they are telling the truth that contradicts your illogical optinions and you don't want to hear about them. I don't mind other people call my posts provocative -- I value logic and truth, and I will only behave as rudely as my opponents do.


Once again, lately my posts have been more in defense of my right to express an opinion without getting it bashed rather than actually making the statement itself.

I'm not telling you to shut up, but as long as you express yourself in a public forum, people will disagree with you and argue with you. The best way for you to be left alone is to make logical and factual posts.


I don't believe I am speaking nonsense. Tell me did you really need to say that?


Ok, what term do you want me to use for illogical opinion that has not factual merits?


In a successful forum people respect each other and you're making me out to be some sort of idiot which I won't take kindly to. It's provocation and it's not needed.

I'm not attacking you personally, I'm attacking your views. I don't know you personally and I respond to you based on your posts on this forum. This whole argument started when you were making excuses for TH by blaming the media for reporting the inflammatory remarks he made. When cooler called you out for making unjustified excuses, you just said that you thought cooler was wrong and you didn't care to change his mind. This sequence of events just doesn't seem straight to me and that's why I called you out to explain yourself.


I just don't want another thread to unnessecarily go in the same direction the other did.

What direction is that? A direction in which people are being fair? What's wrong with that direction?


I'll admit at least you aren't using the same harsh language you were there but I still find your posts highly offensive.

Again, I'm only as rude as my opponets. If you find my posts highly offensive, you have to give me a reason.


While on that topic I believe you said something along the lines of "I don't know what planet you're from but all adults swear when they get angry". Well for a start you just contradicted yourself there as you just said you "don't get angry"


Fair enough, I haven't been totally consistent on the angry thing, I was pretty pissed off by the bashing of the Chinese team in the other thread. But I'm not exactly angry in this one, hence you see the difference in language. Surely, common sense would tell you that it's impossible for people not ever to get angry? Anyhow, I admit that I haven't been totally consistent on my anger management -- see, being honest is not so hard, isn't it?


secondly self restraint is an important thing when dealing with other people. I honestly don't believe you need to type out swear words to express how you're feeling.

I use different language with different people. Swear words not only can convey insults but can also act as emphasis. For example, "that's ****ing awsome" would be perceived as a compliment in most situations. Most people are able to tell the difference.


Finally what's this rubbish about "don't start any trouble if you cannot handle any". I'd think it'd be quite obvious by now I'm hardly trying to start any trouble. If anything I'm trying to settle things down a bit, and you're not helping.

I think I made it very clear that you started trouble by defending the indefensible, i.e. TH's behavior in this AG. You don't settle things down by making additional posts that make no sense. You settle things down by admitting what you did was wrong.


I'm sorry to everyone not involved in this but newplayer, I have very little patience for people like you. You've put me down, patronized me time and time again I'm not going to stand for it.

This is your lucky day, I happen to be a very patient and persistent person, and I will not hesitate to call you out when you don't make sense.


In fact I'd be quite happy if this thread was locked.

Why am I not surprised?

4 'antitaufik' : don't u have anyone to hate beside TH...... ? :)

SSULY,

thanks :)

taufik-ist, not at all.:D

as usual,

talking about taufik will always get long and longer :)

phaarix and newplayer... would u please continuing your business through private messages? Since this forum thread is for people's common concern instead of your personal issues. I'd really appreciate it.

phaarix and newplayer... would u please continuing your business through private messages? Since this forum thread is for people's common concern instead of your personal issues. I'd really appreciate it.
Yes I know what you're saying, I'm finished anyway, I have no interest in this newplayer. If you're not going to be civil then I'm not interested. I do feel you're being far too personal, whether you want to believe it or not some of the things you've said do hurt. Just ease up a bit pease...

And of course I could think of nothing worse than continuing this through messages. I certainly don't enjoy being insulted or made out to be a fool.

I agree ssuly that this sort of thing is not appropriate in a forum, that's just what I was trying to make out myself (though I might have got a bit carried away - sorry :().

Yes I know what you're saying, I'm finished anyway, I have no interest in this newplayer. If you're not going to be civil then I'm not interested. I do feel you're being far too personal, whether you want to believe it or not some of the things you've said do hurt. Just ease up a bit pease...

And of course I could think of nothing worse than continuing this through messages. I certainly don't enjoy being insulted or made out to be a fool.

I agree ssuly that this sort of thing is not appropriate in a forum, that's just what I was trying to make out myself (though I might have got a bit carried away - sorry :().

I'm really sorry if I hurt you phaarix :(. I'll be more careful with my words next time.

I'm really sorry if I hurt you phaarix :(. I'll be more careful with my words next time.
No not you :), I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. I think maybe you read what I posted before my edit (which I made because I realised it may be misunderstood :p).

No not you :), I completely understand and agree with what you're saying. I think maybe you read what I posted before my edit (which I made because I realised it may be misunderstood :p).

ah, I see.:D:D:D

If that was the truth, I'm just a bit puzzled by the fact that he took part in Japan open, HK open, and China open this year, but failed to participate in All England. What's the point of entering a tournament that doesn't interest you? Would TH be doing a favour to Indonesia by letting someone else taking his sopt in those tournaments he doesn't care about? How do you explain this?

I also seem to remember that TH gave up rather easily in the second set of the final of the Surdiman cup in 2005. What's the deal with that?

TH is a true professional; he plays badminton for money and for his country (read:money) and that's great because he'll be motivated by 2007's Super Series and year end Masters. The reason he's working fulltime for JO, HKO and CO is to build up his ranking points to get into better draws for 2007 otherwise he'll be flattened again by LD like in JO.
He skipped AE cos he got his priorities right; his marriage comes first. He's also telling AE :you can wait or why bother.
He had back injuries. In TC06 he had to play even when not fully recovered. I thought LD , for once,was most thoughful to him. LD played shots TH could reach so that at least they can have a match, then LD remembered XXF waiting for him so he finished it in a hurry.
By the way,you must be the chap with the colourful outburst.I am sorry my posts brought the worst out of you: i wish the opposite had happened.It's good to see you are not bottling up.Letting go like a safety valve is nicer.
I'll try to be more tactful but i'm a product of my advertising career where we have daily deadlines, we don't mince words and you are as good as your ideas so habits are hard to change.To quench your curiosity I don't use medication but I'm a mathematics addict and Psychology is my major, so , yes, analysing behaviour comes naturally.
We have some wonderful teenagers in this Forum :it'll be great to disagree in a rich but civilized manner.

Thread closed:
Reason: Circular arguments, implicit patronising remarks.