American Badminton League

[dgobbie]

Hello everyone - my name is Donn Gobbie and I am new to the board. I'm more of a tennis player than badminton player, but I did work for USA Badminton in the mid 1990's and really developed an appreciation for the game. I met Kevin Han and Howard Bach when I worked at USA Badminton, and they remain very good friends of mine.

I was a bit disappointed when I worked at USA Badminton to see this wonderful sport not really being marketed to its fullest potential in the US. After I left USA Badminton, I developed a league format that has co-ed teams, a different scoring system, etc. and called it the American Badminton League. Since 1998, colleges and universities here in the midwest play the event each year, and it's very popular. The idea for the ABL was not totally mine - I also use to work for Billie Jean King and her company, World Team Tennis. WTT uses a different scoring system to showcase men's and women's singles and doubles, and mixed doubles, all on one court (actually, the recreational WTT leagues use two courts, and the professional WTT league uses one court)

The huge advantage that badminton has over tennis is that spectators can get much closer to watch a match, and I thought it would be fantastic to watch professional badminton showcased on a single court, with spectators up close. As a result, the ABL plans to start a professional league on the West Coast of the USA in the summer of 2008 (after the Olympics, and either immediately before or immediately after the USA Open, when more of the international players are in this country). There's already interest from several badminton players who want to participate (sorry, can't mention any names at this time).

The ABL is looking for potential team owners for franchises in Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and Seattle for the year, which will be a two week season. After that, we hope to expand to New York, Chicago, Atlanta and Houston in the following year to have a three-week, eight team league. If anyone on the board has any suggestions or recommendations for potential team owners, please let me know.

You can visit the ABL web site at www.americanbadmintonleague.com (http://www.americanbadmintonleague.com)

Thanks! Looking forward to communicating with all of you - Donn

[westwood_13]

That's incredible. I really, really appreciate what you're doing for the sport!

[DinkAlot]

Thanks, I hope the ABL takes off and flourishes. :)

[AMRaider]

:D I echo Dinkalot's sentiments.

[Lake Success]

Fantastic!!Great news to hear!!!
Why not give a bit attention to the east coast as well:D

[ctjcad]

Thanks! Looking forward to communicating with all of you - Donn
(rest of post snipped for brevity)..
dgobbie, thanks for sharing that wonderful news..Wow, so this league has been in existence all along since 1998??..:confused:
I wonder what or why did it take this long for you guys to finally start expanding, knowing well "most" of the competitions are on the West Coast of the U.S. Add to that, last yr's WC was nearly a "perfect" situation for you guys to promote the league.
But after reading some of the infos on your website(which looks very professional), hopefully what you've planned and envisioned can come to fruition very soon. It does look quite promising but again, I understand the logistics and the initial start of this can be a challenge. But maybe this type of badminton competition is what's been missing/lacking all along in the U.S...And if the media(s) notices this, who knows..;):)
Anyways, wishing all the best to your endeavor and i'll be keeping my eyes on this league.;):cool:

[Eurasian =--(O)]

Website is down when I tried to go.

Would you have any interest in having the league extend into Canada? Or having Canadian players enter to play against Americans?

[Viper2005]

Maybe we can start nominating who will be Team San Gabriel?

I'd say for the Men: Alex & James, Women: Grace and Mona or Johanna.

Who do you think?


Thanks, I hope the ABL takes off and flourishes. :)

[DinkAlot]

Maybe we can start nominating who will be Team San Gabriel?

I'd say for the Men: Alex & James, Women: Grace and Mona or Johanna.

Who do you think?

The girls, we're all set. The guys, I don't think Alex and James will play.

[KooGuy]

Cool...What kind of format are we talking about? New scoring system or old scoring system, IBF sanction etc

[Glacyus]

Cool...What kind of format are we talking about? New scoring system or old scoring system, IBF sanction etc

http://donnsports.com/matchformat.htm

[LazyBuddy]

It's indeed a good idea to promote the sport. However, there are some difficulties which I think might be a draw back to a lot of participants:

1. Schedule: Many ppl (or say, most ppl) are full time working ppl or students. It's hard to get them to be fully participate in a long season (even we are talking about just weeks).

2. $$$: Travel requires $$$.

3. How to select the players for each team? Contact the local dominating clubs? Or, do an open selection to a region/city? There might be some political issues we need to be aware about. :o

[Eurasian =--(O)]

There should definately be a team even where you can compete against Canadians.

[westwood_13]

I"m interested to know the mentality behind the 'quick game' scoring system?

[DinkAlot]

I"m interested to know the mentality behind the 'quick game' scoring system?

Easy answer: ATTAAAAAACK!!!

Attack every chance you get. :p

[dgobbie]

Hi Everyone - thanks for your suggestions and comments - I hope the following answers some of the questions you've had:

Erasian asked about Canadian players in the league - the league will be open to players from all countries - we'll definitely have an international list of players - for our first year we want to keep the teams on the west coast of the US to make travel easier, and actually Seattle was a tough choice, since it's located further away from the California cities - if the Seattle team does not materialize, we'll look at another location in California (maybe Sacramento) or Las Vegas

Kooguy asked about the format - here's how it works: an ABL Professional match consists of 2 games of men's doubles, 2 games of men's singles, 2 games of women's singles, 2 games of women's doubles, and at least 1 game of mixed doubles. Every game won is a point in the team's total score, so an ABL score could look something like 9-0, 8-1, 7-2, 6-3, etc. All the games are played one at a time, all on one court. Mixed doubles is always played last. At the end of nine games, if the trailing team won the mixed doubles, the match will enter OVERTIME - when this happens, mixed doubles games are played until the trailing team ties the score, or the leading team wins one game. If the trailing team ties the score, a final mixed doubles game is played as a TIEBREAK. The overtime rule means that a team is never out of a match. At the most extreme example, let's say your team has lost the first eight games, and you are down 0-8 going into the mixed. If you win the mixed, it's now 1-8, and if you can win 7 mixed doubles games in a row to tie the score (without the leading team winning one game), you'll play a final mixed doubles game as a tiebreak. That's the most extreme example, but it shows you that you've always got a chance to make a comeback. In our recreational leagues, we've had many instances where a team was down 3-5 going into the mixed, won the mixed to make it 4-5, won one game in overtime to make it 5-5, and then won the tiebreak (a final mixed game) to win the match 6-5. It's really exciting.

It's in the playing of the games that traditional badminton players sometimes find it hard to adjust at first, but people who are new to the sport pick up easily: each game is the first side to win 17 points - each side takes turn serving four points (unlike traditional badminton, there are no second serves in doubles - you serve four points, the person on the other team serves four pointsm, then your partner serves points, then the other partner serves four points, etc) - it would have made sense to have a game end at 16 points, so in the event of 16-0 score in doubles, everyone would have served four times - but, we decided on 17 in case the score reaches 16-16, and in this case the next point wins it for either team - we' ve had this happen quite often in our recreational leagues and it's tense (and fun!) to watch

there are also rules like subsitutions, coaching during the games, etc that make the sport more fan friendly

LazyBuddy mentioned that the schedule would be hard for people who work - the ABL Professional League will be for world ranked players who travel the world to play tournaments, it's not a recreational league - as for the money, team owners must purchase a franchise, and that money goes directly into the prize money pool - we are working on getting sponsors to help with other league expenses, such as travel

LazyBuddy asked how the players are selected - this is a professional league, and as all pro leagues do, there will be a draft in the spring of 2008 - usually in a draft there is a Draft Order, and this will be determined (in the first year) by the order in which team owners purchase teams - in other words, if you are the first person to purchase a team, you will get the first pick in the draft - remember, many of the players in the draft will be from other countries

westwood13 asked about the mentality of the "quick game" - we developed the ABL Speed Game about ten years ago - we wanted to see a point rewarded for every rally, since the rallies in badminton are often so spectacular - plus, it makes the game end in a reasonable amount of time (about 9 to 12 minutes) so an ABL match that has at least nine games played on one court, one game at a time, will be over in less than two hours

I hope that answers most of your questions - I appreciate all your comments and look forward to reading more of them!

Donn

[DinkAlot]

All the games are played one at a time, all on one court. Mixed doubles is always played last.

Won't this take too long? 9 matches on one court?

[dgobbie]

Hi - not nine matches, nine games - the ABL Speed Game takes about 9 to 12 minutes to play - an ABL Pro Match is finished in less than two hours

[Eurasian =--(O)]

This sounds like its going to be competing witht he Danish League system. If you can get more money surely you will draw the players. Probably not as many Chinese players though, they seem to never leave China.... Heard XXZ was thinking about leaving.

[LazyBuddy]

LazyBuddy mentioned that the schedule would be hard for people who work - the ABL Professional League will be for world ranked players who travel the world to play tournaments, it's not a recreational league - as for the money, team owners must purchase a franchise, and that money goes directly into the prize money pool - we are working on getting sponsors to help with other league expenses, such as travel

LazyBuddy asked how the players are selected - this is a professional league, and as all pro leagues do, there will be a draft in the spring of 2008 - usually in a draft there is a Draft Order, and this will be determined (in the first year) by the order in which team owners purchase teams - in other words, if you are the first person to purchase a team, you will get the first pick in the draft - remember, many of the players in the draft will be from other countries



I know this is the pro league, and the intention is to get all "pros" under the belt. However, recruiting well known pros (e.g. world ranking top 20 or better) require $$$ and usually those are packed with training, activities and tournies. The result, we might need to make up the spots by using local players or regional players, especially at the first few years.

Somehow, I think ppl might be even more interested to come to watch well known local legends rather than less known international pros. Never to metion, if you want to draw sponsors (mostly, local / domestic business), they might believe the local well knowns can promote their business much better than a less known pro who's not even living here.

Therefore, my questions listed in previous posts still exist, more applying how to get the compeitive local/regional level players to participate the league. :rolleyes:

[Eurasian =--(O)]

I know this is the pro league, and the intention is to get all "pros" under the belt. However, recruiting well known pros (e.g. world ranking top 20 or better) require $$$ and usually those are packed with training, activities and tournies. The result, we might need to make up the spots by using local players or regional players, especially at the first few years.

Somehow, I think ppl might be even more interested to come to watch well known local legends rather than less known international pros. Never to metion, if you want to draw sponsors (mostly, local / domestic business), they might believe the local well knowns can promote their business much better than a less known pro who's not even living here.

Therefore, my questions listed in previous posts still exist, more applying how to get the compeitive local/regional level players to participate the league. :rolleyes:

The logistics of getting the top players in the would be tough as well. They play internationally 1-2 tournaments a month for a week per tournament. If there is enough money though, they would come.

[westwood_13]

Probably using 'local legends' would be more beneficial to popularizing the sport in North America than importing pros, as well.

Likely better for long-term profit.

[LazyBuddy]

Probably using 'local legends' would be more beneficial to popularizing the sport in North America than importing pros, as well.

Likely better for long-term profit.

The local legends is the necessary way, as there's no enough attraction for the well known pros to participate, at least, not at the beginning.

However, with lackness of tournament results and difficulties to participating (never to metion the political issues in between different groups and clubs), it's very hard to determine who should be invited. :cool:

[dgobbie]

Lazy Buddy - now I see what you mean, and I agree 100% - that is what the World Team Tennis (WTT) league has done for years - not all the current stars play WTT, so they will find lesser known players, with at least one Marquee Player and/or local star on each team - many times, the Marquee Players are legends who have come out of retirement to play in the league - for example, Pete Sampras played this year for Newport Beach (he lives nearby), and in the past Monica Seles, Boris Becker, Tracy Austin have played once their tournament careers were over

I also agree that there needs to be a local player on each team to create interest - Howard Bach, for instance, would be an ideal person to play on the San Francisco team

and, you are right about getting people to play in the league, especially if they may have gone on to get jobs after their tournament careers finished - that's why we want to keep it to a two week or three week league, in case a former top player wants to play but now has a job - hopefully, that person would be able to schedule his or her vacation time around that league - Kevin Han would be a good example of someone like that

There's also the questions of when is the best time of the year to do this - I had originally thought that immediately before or immediately after the US Open would be the best time, since there are some international players in the US at the time - however, when looking at the schedule, the US Open seems to be sandwiched in between the Worlds and the Japan Open

The best months for the ABL would be June, July or August, from a facility availability point of view - since only one court is needed, high schools or colleges could be rented, and they are not that busy during the summer months - let me know your thoughts on when you think the best time of year would be

also, when you get a chance, please go the the ABL web site, select Professional League, select Match Rules, and at the bottom of that page select Example Match - I recently edited this page: please let me know if it makes sense, and what your thoughts are on the format

www.americanbadmintonleague.com (http://www.americanbadmintonleague.com)


thanks for your suggestions, I am finding them helpful!

Donn

[toddster]

You guys all SUCK :mad:

I have been talking about a league/team competitions and no one has said a single thing about it. :crying: (except for Donn!!;) )

Here is link.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37231

Of course I was not thinking about somthing as big as the entire U.S.

Don Good LUCK!!!
Personally, I think USA Badminton should be supporting small local leagues instead of one big one. But again Good Luck. Also, do the best you can to be prepaired for lawsuits, because if you don't set it up right, you will be open.

I am probably going to get flamed for this, but WHAT ABOUT MY POSTS????:crying:

Toddster

[DinkAlot]

I am probably going to get flamed for this, but WHAT ABOUT MY POSTS????:crying:

Flame! Flame! Flaaaaaaaaaaame! :p

We're still waiting for you to come back to SGVBC to play. :D :D :D

[toddster]

Flame! Flame! Flaaaaaaaaaaame! :p

We're still waiting for you to come back to SGVBC to play. :D :D :D

he he I can't compete there. Plus I need to get in a different kind of shape before I can compete there (other than round, because Round is a SHAPE!).

Seriously, I need to better develop my quads, hamstrings, and core muscle groups (midsection) before I can play at SGVBC (my knees are bugging me these days also{damn getting old sucks}). I know SGVBC is a good place to play at, but when I was in better shape (than I am now), my back always hurt after playing at SGVBC (I must admit that I have always had back problems, too much diving as a goalie in soccer).

I will Private Message you with more questions DinkAlot. I knew someone would flame me, it just figgures it would be DinkAlot (just kidding).

Thanks,
Toddster

[Dummey]

he he I can't compete there. Plus I need to get in a different kind of shape before I can compete there (other than round, because Round is a SHAPE!).

Seriously, I need to better develop my quads, hamstrings, and core muscle groups (midsection) before I can play at SGVBC (my knees are bugging me these days also{damn getting old sucks}). I know SGVBC is a good place to play at, but when I was in better shape (than I am now), my back always hurt after playing at SGVBC (I must admit that I have always had back problems, too much diving as a goalie in soccer).

I will Private Message you with more questions DinkAlot. I knew someone would flame me, it just figgures it would be DinkAlot (just kidding).

Thanks,
Toddster

I bet it's because of the college food (well lack of good food) you've had to experience. Just admit that you had chips instead of the nasty pasta =P But seriously about back problems, go try doing yoga once a week, it does wonders for it and if your man enough try ballet for those legs while strengthening your back. My doctor told me that I need to do excercises that have more of a fluid motion to help my back strain and joint pains.

[DinkAlot]

I bet it's because of the college food (well lack of good food) you've had to experience. Just admit that you had chips instead of the nasty pasta =P But seriously about back problems, go try doing yoga once a week, it does wonders for it and if your man enough try ballet for those legs while strengthening your back. My doctor told me that I need to do excercises that have more of a fluid motion to help my back strain and joint pains.

LOL Dummey, if you knew how old we were and how heavy we were... :p

[Winex West Can]

Found this news on Anna Rice (http://www.annarice.org)'s site where she described receiving an email invite to join the upcoming American Badminton League (http://www.ablbadminton.com/players.htm)!

Let's see if it would come to fruition! I hoped so!

[madbad]

Hmmm, I wonder who the sponsors are. Seems ambitious for such a small prize pool (in terms of $$). Nevertheless, I hope seeds can be sowed for bigger and better things.

A small aside, you think they could have come up with a more original logo. UGH! :(:cool:

[xXazn_romeoXx]

sounds really good. hopefully a step towards growing club/league popularity like in europe and asia. i wish ottawa would have one so i can watch the matches xD

[smash_master]

haha funny i was just reading about that earlier on her website as well, wonder in the future when it kicks off which other cities will be among the 1st to join as well as which players will be representing the currently listed ones.

[ctjcad]

Found this news on Anna Rice (http://www.annarice.org)'s site where she described receiving an email invite to join the upcoming American Badminton League (http://www.ablbadminton.com/players.htm)!

Let's see if it would come to fruition! I hoped so!
..this league was first posted in this thread, below, in 2006:cool::
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39138

[Winex West Can]

..this league was first posted in this thread, below, in 2006:cool::
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39138

Thanks and I did a search for ABL too before creating the new thread. Maybe one of the mods can merge the two threads. :cool:

[zmwoody]

any updates? I heard there was a tounament at Manhatton beach club this month than one at SGBC in March. I can not find any dates on there web site

[dgobbie]

Hi everyone - this is Donn Gobbie - I started the American Badminton League (ABL) 10 years ago, and the name has now been changed to National Badminton League (NBL) so that we can market in Canada.

There are two components to the NBL: Recreational Leagues and Professional League. The Recreational Leagues start this summer, with mixed leagues for juniors, adults, and seniors. Anyone can organize a league, so if it interests you, please visit the web site at: www.NBLbadminton.com (http://www.NBLbadminton.com)

As for the Professional League, we will begin this year with a one-day event called the NBL Pro Classic and it will be held in the Los Angeles area on Monday, July 6 (right before the US Open).

There will be four teams with at least two men and two women on each team, playing the exciting NBL format on one court. Players who have indicated an interest in playing include Howard Bach, Tony Gunawan, Raju Rai, Bob Malaythong, Andrew Dabeka, Mike Beres, William Milroy, Anna Rice, Charmaine Reid and others.

In 2010, the NBL Pro League will start with at least four teams. We have had interest in pro teams in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Chicago, Detroit, Toronto, Boston and New York. We may have two conferences (East and West) with the top two teams from each conference competing in the NBL Finals.

For more information on the NBL Pro Classic and NBL Pro League, visit the NBL website at www.NBLbadminton.com

[ctjcad]

..you guys have finally come up with some teams to start the competition/league.
Looking fw to the July 6th exhibition in L.A.:cool:
A few other queries:
-I wonder who will be the sponsor(s)??
-And do you know where will the event (the one on July 6th) be held at?? OCBC??
-If the plan goes through for next yr, how many matches will each team play/season?
It should be interesting to see how the travel and logistics will pan out..Also, I didn't know the Detroit area has quite a bit of interest/following in badminton:cool:

[dgobbie]

Badminton Warehouse is one of our sponsors - they are sponsors of the NBL Recreational League and the NBL Professional League.

Everyone who participates in an NBL Recreational League will receive special discounts on rackets and shuttles from Badminton Warehouse.

We will be adding more sponsors this summer.

The venue for the NBL Pro Classic cannot be announced yet, but we will be able to do so very soon. Our first choice is a high school in Orange County.

We will have at least four teams in the NBL Professional League next year - we may have more, but four is a minimum. Each pro team will play every other team in home and away matches. So, with four teams, each team will have three home and three away matches. Of course, if we get more than four teams, there will be more home and away matches for each team.

Prize money will be awarded based on individual results and team results.

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you at the NBL Pro Classic.

For the latest updates on the NBL Pro Classic, the NBL Professional League and the NBL Recreational League, visit: www.NBLbadminton.com (http://www.NBLbadminton.com)

[kwun]

why mess with the serving rule and why mess with the scoring system? why goes to 17 points instead of the international standard of 21 points?

this will be very frustrating for the spectators as well as the players.

[gary_seeker]

My school teams (Purdue university) played in the recreational league NBL like last month in gary, Indiana. To be honest, most of the player doesn't like the rules of playing till 18 or 17 and then allowing substitution or allowing moxed double winner to play more. I won't go into details here. Anyway, most of us is from south east Asia or China, we're not Tennis and I don't think tennis format can be used in badminton. Double players are trained differently with single players in badminton. If we can just stick to the sudirman cup or Thomas/Uber cup style, it's more fun for us than the new format that you offer. That's just some idea from me =).

Thanks

[kwun]

yeah. i agree. why American need to always take other people's game and then f*** with it and make it their own?

just take the game format as it is, badminton as it currently stand is already a great game. screwing around with it doesn't make it any better.

[cooler]

Thanks for your interest, hope to see you at the NBL Pro Classic.

For the latest updates on the NBL Pro Classic, the NBL Professional League and the NBL Recreational League, visit: www.NBLbadminton.com (http://www.NBLbadminton.com)
i highly suggest u rename them as MML Cartoon Classic, MML Disney league and the MM Recreational League, where MM stands for Mickey Mouse. It is considered a fraud to represent badminton when the badminton rules aren't followed.

It is comical to see the americans depise chinses fake goods but yet
americans invented fake crab meat, fake lobster meat, fake breast, many type of artifical flavors, and now fake badminton.

[madbad]

I hope the organizers are listening. If the participants are dissatisfied, there'll be no future in these leagues. Why mess around with the scoring format when a perfectly good one is available. You don't see tennis leagues play to 4 points per set. I know there may be logistical and/or time constraints but c'mon... Like cooler said, makes it feel Mickey Mouse :cool:

[ctjcad]

yeah. i agree. why American need to always take other people's game and then f*** with it and make it their own?

just take the game format as it is, badminton as it currently stand is already a great game. screwing around with it doesn't make it any better.
*gasp*...master kwun, you sound very upset!:eek::p

[Fan888]

Just read through the 4-17 scoring format. What the heck is that? Whoever would come up with such silly idea? It is so confusing just reading it. Beside confusing the players, how do you expect the paying fans to follow the game?

BTW, Mr. Donn Gobbie hasn't come back in 7 weeks. Maybe he is not listening.

[mhmed0780@]

thank uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[ThePlayer]

I found the mixed tie breaker confused. Does NBL allow the same mixed pair to play all mixed games? If not, what if they win all mixed games and do not have enough players to play rest and lost the whole match? If allow the same mixed pair to play all mixed games, then a team only needs one good pair to win the whole thing.