Here is my latest idea, can you spot what is missing?:confused:

More info & pictures to come later.:D

um... grommits?

... I don't know.

Latest idea? Why would you want to not use grommets? :| ??

I asked myself that same question too, but opposite, why do we need grommets?

All I did was remove all the grommets, use a drill bit to taper off all the holes on both sides to round off all the edges and string it with BG-65 at 22x25lbs. No problems at all.

Can't wait to try it tonight.


Latest idea? Why would you want to not use grommets? :| ??

wouldn't the string get damaged during compression? I think the edges will knick the string.

Here are some more pictures of the grommet-less racket.:)

damn, you must have had allot of free time!

haha

I think this guy is "insain" because the string is going to cut the frame or the
holes cut the string ,the racket is your's ,you do the way you want,
I repeat completely silly!
MING

Can you explain Compression?

Each hole is carefully tapered with a drill bit (by hand) to round-off the edges so it won't cut the string.

I'll play a few games tonite and let you know how it plays.

wouldn't the string get damaged during compression? I think the edges will knick the string.

INSANE! Well, maybe. Good thing I have lots of old used rackets.:D

I got the inspiration to try it after I saw the Prince Tennis Racket.

Prince is using the large grommet-less holes for the top and side.

I thought it is an excellent idea.

This one has the big holes on top and side.

My friend at the Tennis shop strung one at 65lbs and I was surprised the frame didn't break.:eek:

holy crap that is an awesome racquet! i wish badminton racquets had more innovation.

This one has the big holes on top and side.

My friend at the Tennis shop strung one at 65lbs and I was surprised the frame didn't break.:eek:
coz tennis racket has more meat on its frame.
A top end badminton racket tensioned at 27 lbs has more stress than a top end tennis racket at 65 lbs. Dinkalot can break badminton racket at even less than 30 lbs.

Nothing really new.. The Prince More badminton racket series use grommet less system (the idea is to have te strings in direct contact to the frame)..

/Twobeer

It looks like the string has a better chance of digging into the frame itself which could eventually lead to it being damaged without the grommets there as a cushion to distribute the pressure.

Does anyone know the benefits of not having Grommets in Tennis vs Badminton rackets? Less Vibration?

Just came back from Tennis shop and the racket weight 77g exactly with string.

Twobeer, what is the benefits of having the string in direct contact to the frame?

Nothing really new.. The Prince More badminton racket series use grommet less system (the idea is to have te strings in direct contact to the frame)..

/Twobeer

I agree the string may dig into the frame, but only at high tension.
I will experiment with this racket to find out the tension range before the string eats into the frame. I would expect maybe around 25x28lbs.

It looks like the string has a better chance of digging into the frame itself which could eventually lead to it being damaged without the grommets there as a cushion to distribute the preassure.

Negative Ghost Rider, you're going to break more string. :p

Nice innovation Paul, however, I don't think you can compare your work to those tennis rackets because:

1) Those tennis rackets are drilled precisely. Every angle is consistent; and then the manufacturer uses a few layers of material to coat the edges. You can't do that by hand and doubt you coated it.

2) The grommet acts as a cushion, as a way to relieve stress from both the string and the frame. The grommet is softer than the racket frame itself, without it, both the frame and string will become less stable.

3) Without the grommets you are going to get significantly more vibration from the racket frame. It may feel more lively but I feel the drawback will out the benefit. The grommets act like a vibration dampener in tennis.

4) Something about tennis string has higher relative tolerances than badminton string...can't find the source...

I have a Pro Ace racquet, i think it is called Evolution 900 or something which does not have grommets in certain parts (12,3,9 o'clock) of the racquet.

did not really enjoy, the vibration was pretty bad..

Just came back from Tennis shop and the racket weight 77g exactly with string.

Wow, that's light! My Cab 20 Tour Specials with string weigh 102-105grams. :o :p

:D Oh well, if it doesn't work out, maybe some racket manufacturer will run with this idea (Prince). Design a better frame with precise holes and new material, coated or plated holes like Dink says.

Negative Ghost Rider, you're going to break more string. :p

Nice innovation Paul, however, I don't think you can compare your work to those tennis rackets because:

1) Those tennis rackets are drilled precisely. Every angle is consistent; and then the manufacturer uses a few layers of material to coat the edges. You can't do that by hand and doubt you coated it.

2) The grommet acts as a cushion, as a way to relieve stress from both the string and the frame. The grommet is softer than the racket frame itself, without it, both the frame and string will become less stable.

3) Without the grommets you are going to get significantly more vibration from the racket frame. It may feel more lively but I feel the drawback will out the benefit. The grommets act like a vibration dampener in tennis.

4) Something about tennis string has higher relative tolerances than badminton string...can't find the source...

Does anyone know the benefits of not having Grommets in Tennis vs Badminton rackets? Less Vibration?

Just came back from Tennis shop and the racket weight 77g exactly with string.

Twobeer, what is the benefits of having the string in direct contact to the frame? r u sure about 77g? this is ~2.7 ounces. If u sells drugs, u will be out of business pretty quick:p Did u meant 177g?

Product Description
The Prince O3 Red

Racquet Specifications
Headsize: 105 sq. in.
Length: 27.25 in.
Weight (strung): 10.50 oz.
Stiffness (Babolat RDC): 73
Balance: 13.58 in. Head Light
Cross Section: 26mm-23mm Tapered Beam
Swingweight: 312 kg*sq. cm
String Pattern: 16x19
Grip: Prince Duratac
Prince Power Level: 1110

Yup, weigh it three times.:)

r u sure about 77g? this is ~2.7 ounces.

r u sure about 77g? this is ~2.7 ounces.

Pretty sure, the Kason Carvel U-3 is 77grams +/- 2 grams, remove all the grommets add string, add overgrip...probably a wash. :)

Huh? We're talking about the badminton racket, the Kason Carvel U-3/U-4 not a tennis racket.

r u sure about 77g? this is ~2.7 ounces. If u sells drugs, u will be out of business pretty quick:p Did u meant 177g?

Product Description
The Prince O3 Red

Racquet Specifications
Headsize: 105 sq. in.
Length: 27.25 in.
Weight (strung): 10.50 oz.
Stiffness (Babolat RDC): 73
Balance: 13.58 in. Head Light
Cross Section: 26mm-23mm Tapered Beam
Swingweight: 312 kg*sq. cm
String Pattern: 16x19
Grip: Prince Duratac
Prince Power Level: 1110

Yup, weigh it three times.:)
hmm, i think i got confused with the tennis racket.

I asked myself that same question too, but opposite, why do we need grommets?

All I did was remove all the grommets, use a drill bit to taper off all the holes on both sides to round off all the edges and string it with BG-65 at 22x25lbs. No problems at all.

Can't wait to try it tonight.i still think your string wouldn't last as long, maybe less than 50% of normal duration

i still think your string wouldn't last as long, maybe less than 50% of normal duration

Agree. I don't think the string will last. :p

I spent almost an hour tapering all the holes, making sure there are no sharp edges. I used three different size drill bits to gradually round the edges. I hope all my hard work results in some success.:p

I'll let you know if the string breaks in the middle or at the frame/grommet hole.:)

Agree. I don't think the string will last. :p

I spent almost an hour tapering all the holes, making sure there are no sharp edges. I used three different size drill bits to gradually round the edges. I hope all my hard work results in some success.:p

I'll let you know if the string breaks in the middle or at the frame/grommet hole.:)


I'm sure you spent a great deal of time and effort, and it's appreciated but human "precision" cannot compare to computer/machine precision. :)

I hope you will no have problem with vibration. Hehhehe. Long live the string.

hahaha, i think it's worth a go, since it's a old racquet, why not experiment a bit. strings don't really cost that much, especially if you do it yourself. let us know how it goes .... though i'm afraid i agree that either the string will snap quickly or the racquet frame may cave ...

Does anyone know the benefits of not having Grommets in Tennis vs Badminton rackets? Less Vibration?

Just came back from Tennis shop and the racket weight 77g exactly with string.

Twobeer, what is the benefits of having the string in direct contact to the frame?

Actually I think the "fears" of that much more string breakage is exaggerated.. I have seen plenty of players with the MORE+ badminton rackets without a significant difference in the lifespans between restrings..

When I tried the MORE+ 85 and 87 I used about 30lbs, and the string held about a week or so (as usual with grommets rackets as well ;-) )

But keep in mind.. The Prince racket does NOT have drilled holes.. it eliminates the drilled holes by moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels.

the idea behind grommetless design is to add power+control by the more direct string to frame interaction. As Dink points out, the grommets act as shock absorbers (however i think this dampening effect will be quite minimal at 30 lbs or so ;-) ), this added control will generally come with the price of more vibrations.. good or bad is for you to decide :)

/Twobeer

Twobeer, do you have pictures of the MORE+ 85 or 87? I'd like to see what you mean by "moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels."

I also think the vibration will be minimal at high tension. Time to experiment.

Actually I think the "fears" of that much more string breakage is exaggerated.. I have seen plenty of players with the MORE+ badminton rackets without a significant difference in the lifespans between restrings..

When I tried the MORE+ 85 and 87 I used about 30lbs, and the string held about a week or so (as usual with grommets rackets as well ;-) )

But keep in mind.. The Prince racket does NOT have drilled holes.. it eliminates the drilled holes by moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels.

the idea behind grommetless design is to add power+control by the more direct string to frame interaction. As Dink points out, the grommets act as shock absorbers (however i think this dampening effect will be quite minimal at 30 lbs or so ;-) ), this added control will generally come with the price of more vibrations.. good or bad is for you to decide :)

/Twobeer

Twobeer, do you have pictures of the MORE+ 85 or 87? I'd like to see what you mean by "moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels."

I also think the vibration will be minimal at high tension. Time to experiment.

I remember there's a BCer posting a wrecked Prince More racket. And there's a few posts concerning the problem with Wilson NCode 2, 4, 6 (1, 3, 5) rackets (they are grommetless on 2 and 10 o'clock).

Do a search

I have 3 very old wooden badminton raquect ......without grommets!!

Viper just needs to put the racket through the "DinkAlot" test. That will tell the truth of this myth! :D

I have 3 very old wooden badminton raquect ......without grommets!!

Wood has natural absorbing properties. Much better than graphite. Also, with wood, the tension will be very low. If you go high, bye-bye wood.

Viper just needs to put the racket through the "DinkAlot" test. That will tell the truth of this myth! :D

Thanks but no thanks, 77 grams vs. 102+ grams, that's a big difference. :p

Mr. Vipor, some interesting idea. If you have a chance to look at Cab20ms or Cab30ms frame, you will see the special grommet on the side frame. I f I am as daring person as you. I would use my Cab30ms for your experiment because of the MS frame. However, I am not a daredevil like you. Anyway, my thought on this is for racquet manufacture, it save a lot more time by putting frommet vs taking a lot of time to tapper and smooth out the holes. Please keep up the post and inform us with your experiment. Thanks and Merry Chirstmas.

I thought grommets are supposed to absorb the impact and also dampen the vibration, without them wont you feel weird when you hit the shuttle, cause it will feel so hard

He He...... Why not?? Prince More series badminton rackets also without grommet and can support atleast 25*27lbs.

In fact, the first Graphite tennis racket without gromment should be dunlop 200G at 80's, Prince is not the first one.

Actually I think the "fears" of that much more string breakage is exaggerated.. I have seen plenty of players with the MORE+ badminton rackets without a significant difference in the lifespans between restrings..

When I tried the MORE+ 85 and 87 I used about 30lbs, and the string held about a week or so (as usual with grommets rackets as well ;-) )

But keep in mind.. The Prince racket does NOT have drilled holes.. it eliminates the drilled holes by moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels.

the idea behind grommetless design is to add power+control by the more direct string to frame interaction. As Dink points out, the grommets act as shock absorbers (however i think this dampening effect will be quite minimal at 30 lbs or so ;-) ), this added control will generally come with the price of more vibrations.. good or bad is for you to decide :)

/Twobeerwhen i said string life would shortened by foregoing gromments, I mean for viper's racket, not for OEM grommetless rackets. Actually, a properly designed grommetless racket will lengthen the string life.

I asked myself that same question too, but opposite, why do we need grommets?

All I did was remove all the grommets, use a drill bit to taper off all the holes on both sides to round off all the edges and string it with BG-65 at 22x25lbs. No problems at all.

Can't wait to try it tonight.since u had burred out the hole edges, i guess the string life wouldn't get shortened too much. You only needed one poorly done hole to fail the string.

when i said string life would shortened by foregoing gromments, I mean for viper's racket, not for OEM grommetless rackets. Actually, a properly designed grommetless racket will lengthen the string life.

Errrr...that's what I meant too if there's any confusion. :)

The string survived the first day of play. Used it in 3 games, string tension is way too soft. My wrist is sore after 3 games. I had to snap really hard just to clear from end-to-end. Gotta restring to higher tension.
Going to try BG-70Pro at 25x28lbs tension.

For a racket to be grommetless, the holes must be extra tough, and be perfectly smooth on the edges as well as on the inside. The graphite in the holes of a typical racket are never smooth. So either the string will damage the holes, or vice versa. I suggest mechanical grease for the holes to improve durability.

I think grommetless rackets are a very good idea. But it will take proper manufacturing technique to make them. I can imagine the use of enamels as the protective outer layer for the grommet holes. If anyone has a racket factory, there's money to be made in this.

One distinct advantage of the grommetless racket would be the loudest bang ever.

Instead of Grease, how about candle wax? Very good idea.
Reducing the friction in the grommet area would definitely help.

Any other suggestions?

For a racket to be grommetless, the holes must be extra tough, and be perfectly smooth on the edges as well as on the inside. The graphite in the holes of a typical racket are never smooth. So either the string will damage the holes, or vice versa. I suggest mechanical grease for the holes to improve durability.

I think grommetless rackets are a very good idea. But it will take proper manufacturing technique to make them. I can imagine the use of enamels as the protective outer layer for the grommet holes. If anyone has a racket factory, there's money to be made in this.

One distinct advantage of the grommetless racket would be the loudest bang ever.

One distinct advantage of the grommetless racket would be the loudest bang ever.

Loudest bang doesn't necessarily translate into power. But it might scare a few people. :p

there is the a great advantage of hitting a shuttle with a loud bang, it's the satisfaction of hearing it. it's like in golf when i go to the driving range (which is every other year or so) and hit a nice shot with a driver (which is also once every 2 years). the sound is just short of uummmm .... what's the best word .... orgasmic!
;)

there is the a great advantage of hitting a shuttle with a loud bang, it's the satisfaction of hearing it.

There's a problem with that, every time you BOOM!!! the shuttle and then the opponents return it like nothing, it will definitely diminish the O-Factor. :p

The O-Factor is only there when the sound and the results go hand in hand. :)

What are the benefits of a grommet-less racquet?

There's a problem with that, every time you BOOM!!! the shuttle and then the opponents return it like nothing, it will definitely diminish the O-Factor. :p

The O-Factor is only there when the sound and the results go hand in hand. :)

true true, haha, but everyone else in the hall will go, woah, that guy has some amazing power!
then when they walk by and actually see the smash, they'll be like :confused: :confused: , there's something wrong here!

What are the benefits of a grommet-less racquet?

I would say this depends on whether the racket would be designed to have no grommets.

It should be the transfer of power though. Grommets are made of softer more yielding materials than the frame so they absorb some of the power transferred from the speed of the racket through to contacting with the shuttle.

Disadvantage is more stress on the string due to to higher shock loading. I actually dont think it is a bad idea as long as the holes or smothed and rounded to protect the string.

BG-70 Pro comes along at 30 lbs or more :D.

The string survived the first day of play. Used it in 3 games, string tension is way too soft. My wrist is sore after 3 games. I had to snap really hard just to clear from end-to-end. Gotta restring to higher tension.
Going to try BG-70Pro at 25x28lbs tension.

I'm sure BG-70Pro can go 30lbs+, I've done it on a regular racket.


Problem is, 28lbs on the cross is starting to eat into the frame, may have to drop down to 26lbs. 24/26lbs may be the ideal tension for this racket.

BG-70 Pro comes along at 30 lbs or more :D.

Yes, 32 lbs on my racquets regularly :D. Grommets are a problem . . .

I'm sure BG-70Pro can go 30lbs+, I've done it on a regular racket.


Problem is, 28lbs on the cross is starting to eat into the frame, may have to drop down to 26lbs. 24/26lbs may be the ideal tension for this racket.

i think the only way to settle this problem is to let Dink test it. Problem = how durable racquet is

i think the only way to settle this problem is to let Dink test it. Problem = how durable racquet is

I would love to try but my shoulder is very sore from learning my new panda follow through swing. I can't do anything but drop. :( ...:p

Twobeer, do you have pictures of the MORE+ 85 or 87? I'd like to see what you mean by "moulding 2 separate racquet halves, each having teeth, which when placed together form string channels."

I also think the vibration will be minimal at high tension. Time to experiment.
Prince More racquets are not constructed in the same manner as typical graphite racquets. In a typical graphite racquet the frame is molded in one piece and then holes are drilled into the frame to accomodate the strings (and grommets). The purpose of the grommet is to protect the string from the sharp edges created by drilling. In the Prince More racquets the frame is a two piece construction. If you are familiar with furniture construction, the two halves are joined with a series of dovetail-like joints. The string holes are formed at the joins.
Removing the grommets as Viper has done will definitely reduce the overall weight of the racquet. The work he has done to smooth the hole edges might be sufficient to protect the string from premature breakage. Time will tell. I'm surprised they survived the stringing process. And as someone else pointed out, the string is capable of cutting through the relatively thin graphite especially on holes where the string leans against hole edge (mostly on the inside of the frame in the corners of the racquet).

In any case, this seems like an interesting experiment, but as Dinkalot has iterated before, the design process is slighty flawed. Prince O3 rackets are made/designed differently than normal tennis and badminton rackets, which is why grommets aren't needed. If any of you get a chance to see one of those O3 rackets, you'd understand what I mean.

Furthermore, sorry to bust the anticipation, but prince is already in the works of producing an O3 racket that lacks grommets and is done in the same fashion as the tennis rackets. I've seen the prototype/demo in person, and it's actually pretty nifty to look at. As far as playability, I was told the shaft was far too flexible for our use. Hopefully we'll see this next year =).

Hopefully we'll see this next year =).

OMG it's JC! How's Taiwan? When are you coming back? Please e-mail me. My name at gmail.com. :)