anyone knows??? I thought can see Lee Yong Dae plays in semi :crying: so sad :crying:

陈宏腰伤弃赛...........

陈宏腰伤弃赛...........

Chen Hong has waist injury.

LYD Sprained his ankle during the semi match. Ch looked fine against CJ yesterday. maybe its by team order...hehehe

LYD Sprained his ankle during the semi match. Ch looked fine against CJ yesterday. maybe its by team order...hehehe
OMG, he sprained his ankle?? Serious or not?? :(

Chen Hong has waist injury.

Put some banages on, and he will look just like Taufik... but damn I want to watch a final between Chen Hong and Gade so badly.

I hope this is just a team order thing and not for real, or else it is just terrible to have a player whom is totally on fire getting injuried at this time...:(

OMG, he sprained his ankle?? Serious or not?? :(

It wasn't very serious. he managed to continue the game and won ! But i don't think he'll be able to able play the semis today though.

hmm... Do anyone "really" think Ch would be "allowed" by LYB to WO , if the semi had been against LCW instead of Bao..

it's sad that chineese seems to view individual events as "team"-efforts :(

I very very much hope Gade gets to win tommorrow!!!

/Twobeer

I cant see why people cant just respect players for withdrawing due to injury. Would you rather have seen CH quit during his match against CJ. Would this be much more beneficial to the sport?

I think its a credit that players have the fighting spirit to finish a match and that we should respect their wishes be it to withdraw due to injury.

I personally would not like to see a Henin-Hardene, who retired against Mauresmo during the Aussie open final last year.

I cant see why people cant just respect players for withdrawing due to injury. Would you rather have seen CH quit during his match against CJ. Would this be much more beneficial to the sport?

I think its a credit that players have the fighting spirit to finish a match and that we should respect their wishes be it to withdraw due to injury.

I personally would not like to see a Henin-Hardene, who retired against Mauresmo during the Aussie open final last year.

Well, if he was truly injured druing the CJ game, I think it would be nicer to let Chen Jin and Bao fight it out... instead of "barely"-winning it and then leave WO... But then again, I cant help to have the thought nagging that we would have seen CH play in the semis (maybe at the risk of further back-problem) if Bao lost to LCW...

/T

Well, if he was truly injured druing the CJ game, I think it would be nicer to let Chen Jin and Bao fight it out... instead of "barely"-winning it and then leave WO... But then again, I cant help to have the thought nagging that we would have seen CH play in the semis (maybe at the risk of further back-problem) if Bao lost to LCW...

/T

Great point. We can monitor how many walkovers CH will give. He seems to be the appointed expert. Check his history.Nobody even comes close. I wonder why LYB don't try to stop it. Bad habit. Some fans may sue to get their money back.You never know.

hu...hu...
so sad...
i cant watch bao chun lai play live...
i wait a long time in the stadium after kkk&tbh match...
i thought that the match will be start after the rest...
unfortunately, the official told me that cheng hong n korean pair have withdraw the game...
wa...wa...wa...

Great point. We can monitor how many walkovers CH will give. He seems to be the appointed expert. Check his history.Nobody even comes close. I wonder why LYB don't try to stop it. Bad habit. Some fans may sue to get their money back.You never know.

Personally I sadly think CH hasn't got much say in these kind of decisions, it seems clear that its LYB who makes most decisions..

/Twobeer

I was there today.. heh! first time at a live tournament. Surprised with the wo.. not sure about the Chinese.. but I saw Lee Yong Dae.. he was limping when he was walking and someone was there to assist him when he walked. Poor kid...

Personally I sadly think CH hasn't got much say in these kind of decisions, it seems clear that its LYB who makes most decisions..

/Twobeer

I think if LYB wants to pick, he would have pick CH instead of BCL to play PG. From previous matches, BCL's decisive shots are not effective against an experienced PG. CH, like LD, has a power game that give PG more trouble. I really doubt it's a fake injury unless LYB has other thoughts.

Well, if he was truly injured druing the CJ game, I think it would be nicer to let Chen Jin and Bao fight it out... instead of "barely"-winning it and then leave WO... But then again, I cant help to have the thought nagging that we would have seen CH play in the semis (maybe at the risk of further back-problem) if Bao lost to LCW...

/T

i don't agree though, so he was blamed to withdrawn b/c he didn't fight bcl, and then blamed for having fighting spirit during injuries?

what are you looking for from him? become super saiyan?

so pretty much you guys are blaming him regardless of situation, great!

:P

the problem lies here is that Chinese team is known to fix the matches...eventhough CH is injured...people have a doubt...dont blame us...
We blamed TH for WO at HK open and XXF said that the incident is bad for fans...now my question to XXF is doesnt Chinese team do the same now?????

i don't agree though, so he was blamed to withdrawn b/c he didn't fight bcl, and then blamed for having fighting spirit during injuries?

what are you looking for from him? become super saiyan?

so pretty much you guys are blaming him regardless of situation, great!

:P

I agree! If it is a team order then he would have asked to WO right before he play CJ, since many of you think he is already give up by LYB.

I just hate people who make drastic claims on unfounded suspicions that have no evidential backing just to satisfy their need to hate someone or something like hm let me think "Chinese team fixes matches"

There arent even any coaches when chinese players play. Of course this doesnt mean that it doesnt happen but where is the evidence that it does. Why would LYB pick CJ or BCL over CH anyway when he is stopping him from retiring. Do not get some people's logic. :mad:

I just hate people who make drastic claims on unfounded suspicions that have no evidential backing just to satisfy their need to hate someone or something like hm let me think "Chinese team fixes matches"

There arent even any coaches when chinese players play. Of course this doesnt mean that it doesnt happen but where is the evidence that it does. Why would LYB pick CJ or BCL over CH anyway when he is stopping him from retiring. Do not get some people's logic. :mad:

I said based on past events.....you should now that....it is no secret...I do not hate Chinese teams.....also remember what XXF said about Taufik's walkover...

陈宏腰伤弃赛...........

Here we are referring to the back but how come it has changed to wrist starting from post #3???:confused:

Here we are referring to the back but how come it has changed to wrist starting from post #3???:confused:

it means waist. there were no references of "wrist" in the whole thread at all.

Here we are referring to the back but how come it has changed to wrist starting from post #3???:confused:
You need glasses... it's "WAIST" they say, not wrist from post #3.:p

LYB has openly favoured CJ & BCL against CH ( 'grooming new talent' as he puts it), So if he has asked CH to concede in favour of BCL, it's completely understandable...

Why LYB didn't interfere in CH vs CL, I dun know, maybe he thought CJ has a realistic chance against CH, but BCL's type of play wouldn't stand a chance against attacking play of CH.

it means waist. there were no references of "wrist" in the whole thread at all.

LOL, I feel dumb :D

Thanks for the correction

LYB has openly favoured CJ & BCL against CH ( 'grooming new talent' as he puts it), So if he has asked CH to concede in favour of BCL, it's completely understandable...

Why LYB didn't interfere in CH vs CL, I dun know, maybe he thought CJ has a realistic chance against CH, but BCL's type of play wouldn't stand a chance against attacking play of CH.

Honestly, everybody in the Chinese MS team fear Chen Hong... if you just look at last year's result... Chen Hong beat LD in German Open, beat CJ and Bao in China Open, beat CY in Denmark Open. Also, CH dominated the late quarter of 2006... just feel sorry for him if he really got injured at this time, hope it is only team order.:p

We may never know what really happened... But I think your guess is very logical.

LYB has openly favoured CJ & BCL against CH ( 'grooming new talent' as he puts it), So if he has asked CH to concede in favour of BCL, it's completely understandable...

Why LYB didn't interfere in CH vs CL, I dun know, maybe he thought CJ has a realistic chance against CH, but BCL's type of play wouldn't stand a chance against attacking play of CH.

:D The decision was made from a flip of a coin and Bao won the call.....HEAD....

Chen Hong may very well be injured, only he and LYB knows the truth. If you ask Pater, I think Peter rather play against Bao than Chen Hong and Peter has no pressure as he's not even 100% yet manage to get this far, really nothing to lose for him. Further more, guess which side the home crowd is going to support? I think even Lee Chong Wei is yelling on the sideline "Peter Boleh" :D

Chen Hong may very well be injured, only he and LYB knows the truth. If you ask Pater, I think Peter rather play against Bao than Chen Hong and Peter has no pressure as he's not even 100% yet manage to get this far, really nothing to lose for him. Further more, guess which side the home crowd is going to support? I think even Lee Chong Wei is yelling on the sideline "Peter Boleh" :D
I think Peter is prepared for the championship... as he has his hair shaved and ready to take on that "hat"... :p:D:D:D Can't wait to see Bao refuse to put on that hat tomorrow!!!:eek::D:D:D I will be literally roll on the floor laughing...

Brave Yong-dae stopped by swollen ankle in semis


SOUTH Korean men’s doubles star Lee Yong-dae never gives up – even when the chips are down. But the 19-year-old Yong-dae’s bravery on court proved costly yesterday when he and his partner Jung Jae-sung had to concede a walkover to the American-Indonesian combination of Tony Gunawan-Candra Wijaya in the semi-finals.

Yong-dae had fought on despite the pain in the quarter-finals but his ankle was swollen yesterday and he could not play.


Yong-dae had twisted his ankle after landing awkwardly during the last eight match against Anthony Clark-Robert Blair of England. Instead of retiring, he continued to play and won the match.

“But this morning, his ankle was swollen,” said South Korean national doubles coach Tan Kim Her. “He felt pain when he walked. We thought it was best to withdraw him from the competition.

“He is a fighter and never gives up no matter how bad the situation is. It is this attitude that won him a place in the national team last year.”
Although disappointed that the Koreans could not be in action yesterday, Kim Her said that they had big plans this year.

“Last year was a new whole experience for Yong-dae. He found the major tournaments too hot to handle.

“But he is more mature now and we are looking at winning honours at this year’s All-England and World Championships.
“It is also my hope for this pair to win two or three Open titles. They will be a major force this year,” said Kim Her.

http://www.thestar.com.my/archives/2007/1/21/sports/61yong.jpg

source: http://www.thestar.com.my/sports/

I said based on past events.....you should now that....it is no secret...I do not hate Chinese teams.....also remember what XXF said about Taufik's walkover...

Based on what past events?

And i can only remember XXF retorting to taufik's media comments about LD's arrogance. Remind me of the walkover.

If everyone in this thread is saying CH stood a better chance against PG and LYB still refuses to let him retire then why would he force CH to fake injury?

Doesnt make any sense.

Based on what past events?

And i can only remember XXF retorting to taufik's media comments about LD's arrogance. Remind me of the walkover.

If everyone in this thread is saying CH stood a better chance against PG and LYB still refuses to let him retire then why would he force CH to fake injury?

Doesnt make any sense.


Because LYB favors the youngsters over oldies like CHEN Hong and XIA Xuanze. CHEN Hong wasn't even selected to play in the last Thomas Cup or even the Asian team game yet he has better records against all his Chinese compatriots.

It was the same thing with XIA Xuanze when he wasn't selected to go to the 2004 Athens Olympics right after he won the 2003 World Championships. So this is the 2nd time LYB's dirty strategy blew up in his face.

Every pro has some old injuries here or there. However, whether the "old bugs" really bother them to a degree that they can't even give it a try, it's really down to them. Whether there's a "team value" or not, I think it's down to each individual/team themselves. I don't think it's fair for us to judge based on what we hear or guess. It's always easier to talk about others, since it's NOT our career, and we are not under any pressure. Personally, I respect the coach and player's decision, as long as they don't obviously against the rules (i.e. fighting against the fans, etc).

There are many angry fans there, as I understand how disappointed if they were told "WO" instead of a tight match. However, all the things about "refund" is just a joke. Ok, you want refund because there's a "WO". Will you pay extra, if say you get to 15th inning for a baseball game, or 3 OT thriller for a basketball game, or 3 sets (5 sets for MS in tennis) of all deuce matches in badminton? :rolleyes:

Every pro has some old injuries here or there. However, whether the "old bugs" really bother them to a degree that they can't even give it a try, it's really down to them. Whether there's a "team value" or not, I think it's down to each individual/team themselves. I don't think it's fair for us to judge based on what we hear or guess. It's always easier to talk about others, since it's NOT our career, and we are not under any pressure. Personally, I respect the coach and player's decision, as long as they don't obviously against the rules (i.e. fighting against the fans, etc).

There are many angry fans there, as I understand how disappointed if they were told "WO" instead of a tight match. However, all the things about "refund" is just a joke. Ok, you want refund because there's a "WO". Will you pay extra, if say you get to 15th inning for a baseball game, or 3 OT thriller for a basketball game, or 3 sets (5 sets for MS in tennis) of all deuce matches in badminton? :rolleyes:

My view is that there are team-events and individual events.. So I cant find any sportsmanship in using team-tactics in individual events.. The Individual-singles events are all about finding out who is the strongest singles player.. Not the best "team"... Making Team considerations during individual events are truly not beneficial for the Sport.

All players should fight on equal terms.. fixing matches are for WWF not for BWF..

I want to find out whos the best player out on court.. Not who has the sneakiest coach!!!

/Twobeer

Because LYB favors the youngsters over oldies like CHEN Hong and XIA Xuanze. CHEN Hong wasn't even selected to play in the last Thomas Cup or even the Asian team game yet he has better records against all his Chinese compatriots.

It was the same thing with XIA Xuanze when he wasn't selected to go to the 2004 Athens Olympics right after he won the 2003 World Championships. So this is the 2nd time LYB's dirty strategy blew up in his face.

I don't understand how favors the youngsters over the oldies are considered "dirty strategy". This is very understandable in a team like China where youngster does needs more exposure for their long term target. Things would be the same for other countries if they have just as many good players as China! And no one complain the head coach of Indo when Candra/Sigit didn’t get selected to play Thomus cup 06 instead the youngsters was chosen???? Isn’t that a dirty strategy too? I guess not.

People would complain regardless if XXZ were selected instead of CH back then during 04 Athen. Who can tell that XXZ would have performed better than CH or then people would blame LYB for not picking CH as well.

I don’t know if the match between CH and BCL is fixed, but bashing on LYB for his achievement is unfair. LYB has pushed China into the peak of badminton history. There is not doubt about the fact that he is currently the best head coach in the world and he made many right decisions for the Chinese team.

I don't understand how favors the youngsters over the oldies are considered "dirty strategy". This is very understandable in a team like China where youngster does needs more exposure for their long term target. Things would be the same for other countries if they have just as many good players as China! And no one complain the head coach of Indo when Candra/Sigit didn’t get selected to play Thomus cup 06 instead the youngsters was chosen???? Isn’t that a dirty strategy too? I guess not.

People would complain regardless if XXZ were selected instead of CH back then during 04 Athen. Who can tell that XXZ would have performed better than CH or then people would blame LYB for not picking CH as well.

I don’t know if the match between CH and BCL is fixed, but bashing on LYB for his achievement is unfair. LYB has pushed China into the peak of badminton history. There is not doubt about the fact that he is currently the best head coach in the world and he made many right decisions for the Chinese team.

Favoring young ones are of course not a "dirty" strategy.. But sacrificing some of the players to make it easier for the other players on the "team" in an individual event is "dirty"...

But treating athletes like "over the hill" when they are 27 is laughable.. Just look at Jens Eriksen!!!

But you can of course always ask.. Is China No.1 beacuse of LYB or in spite of LYB..

/T

My view is that there are team-events and individual events.. So I cant find any sportsmanship in using team-tactics in individual events.. The Individual-singles events are all about finding out who is the strongest singles player.. Not the best "team"... Making Team considerations during individual events are truly not beneficial for the Sport.



CHN's situation is very much different than a lot of western nations. Their athlete actually raised by the nation when they were even like 5-6 years old. The sports school selete the kids, and given them a career if they can perform. Usually, they don't pay for anything, not coaching, not facility, not even food or boarding. If they can perform to a higher level (say, city/state level and beyond), they got paid with reasonable salaries as well.

Therefore, their career was given by the team/nation, of course, their own hard work as well. In a strict way of speaking, their success could be a direct result from the team's support. This is very much different than the western nations, where most of the athletes have to pay for their training by themselves, or at least, when they were younger, and way before they become famous.

Therefore, CHN athletes' success more or less have something to do with the system (i.e. team), and you can't give all the credit to each individual. If you agree to join such organization and already taking advantage of it (before getting any success and become famous), sometimes, you might consider to pay for your "duty" when there is a "team need" for whatever reason. :cool:

But treating athletes like "over the hill" when they are 27 is laughable.. Just look at Jens Eriksen!!!



You can't treat CHN as a normal case as most other nations, consider how much young talent they have available in their huge pool.

I am sure ppl like XXZ, CH, or Chen Yu, or even less known ones such as Wu Yunyong, Zhu Weilun etc, can easily be MS #1 or #2 for 95% of the nations. However, they are clearly not the #1 in CHN squard, or some already hard to hold on (or already no longer) a spot.

The sad result is part because of the limit entries per event for most major tournies. Therefore, if you can perform well in the national squard, you can't even get a chance to enter. Just ask ppl like Wu Yunyoung and Zhu Weilun. Or, XXZ can't even go to Olympics after WC2003. If there's no such limit, I am pretty sure all the opens will be flooded by CHN.

Exactly, China's government sponsors the team and each player. The government pays for their training, airfare, hotel, meals, just about everything. Therefore, a percentage of their winnings go back to the government. From LYB's point of view, anyone on the team wins = $$$ for the team, government and LYB's salary.
In conclusion, LYB's strategy of using Team power in individual events is a very powerful tool in the super series. LYB can order any player to rally/tire out an opponent before they meet Lin Dan in the Finals. Don't blame the player/coach, blame the rules.:D

You can't treat CHN as a normal case as most other nations, consider how much young talent they have available in their huge pool.

I am sure ppl like XXZ, CH, or Chen Yu, or even less known ones such as Wu Yunyong, Zhu Weilun etc, can easily be MS #1 or #2 for 95% of the nations. However, they are clearly not the #1 in CHN squard, or some already hard to hold on (or already no longer) a spot.

The sad result is part because of the limit entries per event for most major tournies. Therefore, if you can perform well in the national squard, you can't even get a chance to enter. Just ask ppl like Wu Yunyoung and Zhu Weilun. Or, XXZ can't even go to Olympics after WC2003. If there's no such limit, I am pretty sure all the opens will be flooded by CHN.

But treating athletes like "over the hill" when they are 27 is laughable.. Just look at Jens Eriksen!!!

But you can of course always ask.. Is China No.1 beacuse of LYB or in spite of LYB..

/T

LazyBuddy pretty much said what I want to say. But I just want to add that we shouldn’t discount LYB effort of making China No.1, even so he doesn’t have too good reputation on the sportsmanship department.


Just see how much impact Li Mo has bring to LCW alone??? I think LYB has even greater impact on the over all Chinese team.


In the case of Jen Eriksen, he would have probably retired if there are 5 younger pairs playing just as good as him, who would you pick for Olympic if you’re the head coach of Denmark? And what about the Olympic 2012???
Now look at Chinese MS again.

In the case of Jen Eriksen, he would have probably retired if there are 5 younger pairs playing just as good as him, who would you pick for Olympic if you’re the head coach of Denmark? And what about the Olympic 2012???
Now look at Chinese MS again.

Well thats the thing really.. There is no need to put Jens (or any older player for that matter) on the bench, before the young guns have proven themselves "worhty" by their own merits to fill the shoes..

Letting him play 100% against other players but not against his younger compatriots would be something far from a Danish coach mind!!

I don't think CJ and Bao has proven themselves to be as good as CH, until they do I think CH should get equal individual chances, if he wants that himself of course ;)

/T

I don't understand how favors the youngsters over the oldies are considered "dirty strategy". This is very understandable in a team like China where youngster does needs more exposure for their long term target. Things would be the same for other countries if they have just as many good players as China! And no one complain the head coach of Indo when Candra/Sigit didn’t get selected to play Thomus cup 06 instead the youngsters was chosen???? Isn’t that a dirty strategy too? I guess not.

Thomas Cup isn't a same case, it's about choosing the right player for a TEAM event. MO is an individual event, please make it clear. Favoring young players for the future does not mean you can fix matches.

If you want your young player to get exposure, don't send your senior players. If you send them, don't tell them to retire when they meet with young teammates.

BWF has made it clear that the Super Series is focused on PLAYER, not COUNTRY. BWF wants to produce professional players like tennis and golf, country image should fade in Super Series.

For any reason, match fixing is dirty and should be banned.
For the same reason, team order was banned in F1.

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

Thomas Cup isn't a same case, it's about choosing the right player for a TEAM event. MO is an individual event, please make it clear. Favoring young players for the future does not mean you can fix matches.

If you want your young player to get exposure, don't send your senior players. If you send them, don't tell them to retire when they meet with young teammates.

BWF has made it clear that the Super Series is focused on PLAYER, not COUNTRY. BWF wants to produce professional players like tennis and golf, country image should fade in Super Series.

For any reason, match fixing is dirty and should be banned.
For the same reason, team order was banned in F1.

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

Hey, let's get it straight! I didn't say fixed match is right nor I would ever agree with it. I am only saying as of CH is really injuired! please re-read the entire thread.!!!! :mad:

I don't think CJ and Bao has proven themselves to be as good as CH, until they do I think CH should get equal individual chances, if he wants that himself of course ;)

/T

This is only subject to your view. CJ has potential to play even on 2012, but what about CH??? It is not fair at first place and I dislike it either, but if you're in LYB position where your task is to bring Gold then you would have thought differently.

Just like what LazyBuddy have said, Chinese team is fully sponsored by the government and for sure they would have high hope to the team.

People would complain regardless if XXZ were selected instead of CH back then during 04 Athen. Who can tell that XXZ would have performed better than CH or then people would blame LYB for not picking CH as well.
..(excuse me for writing this) but like the phrase goes, it seems like "damn if he decides one way and damn if he decides another way"...:p

Thomas Cup isn't a same case, it's about choosing the right player for a TEAM event. MO is an individual event, please make it clear. Favoring young players for the future does not mean you can fix matches.

If you want your young player to get exposure, don't send your senior players. If you send them, don't tell them to retire when they meet with young teammates.

BWF has made it clear that the Super Series is focused on PLAYER, not COUNTRY. BWF wants to produce professional players like tennis and golf, country image should fade in Super Series.

For any reason, match fixing is dirty and should be banned.
For the same reason, team order was banned in F1.

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

sure BWF say its about players, not country, but if you look at the forum, its all about countries, look at how malay/indo/chn fans here, who doesn't talk about how they want their players to win? who does not talk about breaking the so called "great-wall" or simply jealousy for lack of youngsters?

give it up and accept its a country's pride in badminton, it won't change in day 1 until we have some sort of badminton league such as the EU cup in soccer(or football if you are british)

i believe many of us are suffering from LYB-bashing symdromes...

Thomas Cup isn't a same case, it's about choosing the right player for a TEAM event. MO is an individual event, please make it clear. Favoring young players for the future does not mean you can fix matches.

If you want your young player to get exposure, don't send your senior players. If you send them, don't tell them to retire when they meet with young teammates.

BWF has made it clear that the Super Series is focused on PLAYER, not COUNTRY. BWF wants to produce professional players like tennis and golf, country image should fade in Super Series.

For any reason, match fixing is dirty and should be banned.
For the same reason, team order was banned in F1.

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

This is superb , clear thinking and I totally concur.
However, given that BCL lost ,even with a supposedly walkover advantage, and match going to rubber, LYB will rethink the W/O tactic.
In fact , if you look at MO07, one good lesson to be learnt seems to be W/O derailed the recipient players. There were 3 W/O and all the players who got them LOST! LWF/TFF, TG/CW and BCL.They seemed to not get started until too late, maybe because of the missed match. Under the OSS where the matches tend to be longer,W/O may be a bonus but under the NSS, W/O seem to misfire. The only player I can think of who may benefit from a W/O is that lazy louse, TH. He has gifted LD a W/O once and he is waiting to see whether LD will reciprocate, maybe in AE07, as a token of their budding friendship.

Because LYB favors the youngsters over oldies like CHEN Hong and XIA Xuanze. CHEN Hong wasn't even selected to play in the last Thomas Cup or even the Asian team game yet he has better records against all his Chinese compatriots.

It was the same thing with XIA Xuanze when he wasn't selected to go to the 2004 Athens Olympics right after he won the 2003 World Championships. So this is the 2nd time LYB's dirty strategy blew up in his face.

Thomas cup (or any competition) isnt about picking someone who can beat their team mates, its about who can beat their opponents ie. other countries. Anyway i dont see as relevant in anyway whatsoever, its the coach's job to pick players for the thomas cup. You think you can do better than LYB? who dont you apply for the position when he retires after the olympics.

And i just wanna say that for once i actually agree with Lazy Buddy after our disagreement on ebay sellers. WOW

I just hate people who make drastic claims on unfounded suspicions that have no evidential backing just to satisfy their need to hate someone or something like hm let me think "Chinese team fixes matches"

There arent even any coaches when chinese players play. Of course this doesnt mean that it doesnt happen but where is the evidence that it does. Why would LYB pick CJ or BCL over CH anyway when he is stopping him from retiring. Do not get some people's logic. :mad:

You shouldn't wait to be spoonfed. Go do research on CHN vs CHN MS matches over the last three years, apply some investigative,inferred intelligence and you will understand better what 'some people's logic' mean.

Thomas Cup isn't a same case, it's about choosing the right player for a TEAM event. MO is an individual event, please make it clear. Favoring young players for the future does not mean you can fix matches.

If you want your young player to get exposure, don't send your senior players. If you send them, don't tell them to retire when they meet with young teammates.

BWF has made it clear that the Super Series is focused on PLAYER, not COUNTRY. BWF wants to produce professional players like tennis and golf, country image should fade in Super Series.

For any reason, match fixing is dirty and should be banned.
For the same reason, team order was banned in F1.

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

Your claims just make me laugh. There's no individual can survive without the team, especially if the team raise you and paid everything for you since you are 4-5 years old.

Let's put this straight. Do you consider bicycle racing (i.e. Tour France) as individual or team? What about NASCAR racing? All of them of the paper, listed as individual events. However, all the pros know they need their teamates to "block" other opponents to get a better chance. Lance Armstrong thanks his USPS teammates to help him to win the champion, as they adopt a perfect team strategy (i.e. formation). Did anyone claim such as a "dirty strategy"? Same thing applies for marathon, diving, gymnastics, as teammates taking turns to "lead" (i.e. pressure opponents to raise the difficulties levels, which result into mistakes). Anyone claim such approach as "dirty"? :o

To me, a true champion needs to be prepared for all situation. You win, good. You lose, train harder. All the excuses of "oh, he got an easier draw", or "damn, he got an easier earlier round / WO" is just sore losers. Let your racket do the talk, not your mouth.

Again, how you check the injury. Any pro athletes have tons of injuries, and any of them can easily file an earlier retirement is they really want to. I wonder any doctor dare to force a player to play, if the player claims uncomfortable about any new/old injury. :cool:

You shouldn't wait to be spoonfed. Go do research on CHN vs CHN MS matches over the last three years, apply some investigative,inferred intelligence and you will understand better what 'some people's logic' mean.

Sure, PG just gave an WO to CY in KOR. Did anyone say anything? In WC2003, both Camila and Mia lost to ZN by 15:0 in a set. Can I apply some logic? I am sure there are many other cases that players give WO, or lose by unbelievable scores.

Oh wait, they are not CHN. So, they are fine. Once they are CHN, they auto going into the "dirty" pool. Ok, I guess all CHN players are superman or superwomen. Once they claim that they don't feel well, they are "cheating".

Please, there's a reason why CHN players tend to retire super early. Because the injuries bugs them, not because they want to give up the "star" title, or give the $$$ away. :(

Let's put this straight. Do you consider bicycle racing (i.e. Tour France) as individual or team? What about NASCAR racing? All of them of the paper, listed as individual events. However, all the pros know they need their teamates to "block" other opponents to get a better chance. Lance Armstrong thanks his USPS teammates to help him to win the champion, as they adopt a perfect team strategy (i.e. formation). Did anyone claim such as a "dirty strategy"? Same thing applies for marathon, diving, gymnastics, as teammates taking turns to "lead" (i.e. pressure opponents to raise the difficulties levels, which result into mistakes). Anyone claim such approach as "dirty"? :o

I think comparing a one-on-one game like badminton to car-racing and bicycle races are quite lame actually..

When tour the france starts everybody is well aware that most of the cyclists sole role is to be "helpers" for the big-guns...

Its not Like Cheng Hong and Bao role should be as LD "helpers" in tournaments??? or?? At least I would not like it to be...

More relevent comparisons would be with Boxing, Tennis, Squash, Darts, Judo, Fencing, Chess etc..

Would anyone dream of letting Agassi WO against Roodick, to make it more probalble with a US champ in Austrailion Open for example...

/Twobeer

If Kenneth Jonassen was asked to give a walkover to Peter Gade, he would be furious, and Peter would be, too.

All these accusations are based on assumptions. Where is the evidence that LYB told CH to WO. Come on if you tell me to check evidence find some to support ure case first. Did you record a convosation, a newspaper article, no i dont think so. Get the evidence and then make a point, dont just provoke arguments with unfounded accusations of LYB telling CH to WO.

All these accusations are based on assumptions. Where is the evidence that LYB told CH to WO. Come on if you tell me to check evidence find some to support ure case first. Did you record a convosation, a newspaper article, no i dont think so. Get the evidence and then make a point, dont just provoke arguments with unfounded accusations of LYB telling CH to WO.

Nobody here as far as I can read, has claimed to have proof and evidence of LYB fixing the match.

But we can all make intelligent guesses and discuss about how bad it all looks..

To ask you the same question.. Do you have any evidence that CH had such a serious back injury a few days ago (that we for sure know didnt stop him to play a tough 3-setter a few days later) that he couldnt put up a fight against Bao..

Do you have any evidence to prove LYB didnt decide for CH to throw the game, becuase he flet Bao had had an easier run and it would benefit the "team" for him get a days rest before the final..

/Twobeer

When tour the france starts everybody is well aware that most of the cyclists sole role is to be "helpers" for the big-guns...



I think your reply is quite funny.

In Tour France rule book, there's NEVER a written rule of "majority helpers + a few big guns". The strategy is well accepted based on a un-written "team strategy" which be proven to give good chance for a team to have a representative to capture the trophy. However, Tour France (and many sports I listed in my post) are OFFICIALLY listed under INDIVIDUAL. Please don't mix the official rule book with some sort of "well accepted strategy".

To me, such approach is also a case of playing "grey area", whether it's well accepted or not. Otherwise, Tour France should already give the trophy to a TEAM rather than INDIVIDUAL long long time ago. But it did not. Because in the rule book, it's still individual event.

So, based on your assuption of "should do" or "sportsmanship", then, almost every single one of them is shameless freaks, and Lance Armstrong might be the biggest one, as he even proudly say it in public. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Nobody here as far as I can read, has claimed to have proof and evidence of LYB fixing the match.

But we can all make intelligent guesses and discuss about how bad it all looks..

To ask you the same question.. Do you have any evidence that CH had such a serious back injury a few days ago (that we for sure know didnt stop him to play a tough 3-setter a few days later) that he couldnt put up a fight against Bao..

Do you have any evidence to prove LYB didnt decide for CH to throw the game, becuase he flet Bao had had an easier run and it would benefit the "team" for him get a days rest before the final..

/Twobeer

Give me a big freaking break man...

Do we follow the logic of "if no evidence, he's innocent" or the logic of "if no evidence, he's guilty"??? :eek:

Clearly, you pick the 2nd one, because YOU made your assumption based on your own choice. And, you clearly let the sore taste get in your mouth, and the so call "intelligent guess" have a huge percentage of "feeling".

If you believe the 2nd one, I hope you are not working as a judge or a law enforcer. Otherwise, everyone will be put in jail at the day they are born. They can only get out, if they can prove they are innocent.

This is totally ridiculous to a point. :mad: :mad:

Chen Hong should be checked by authorized specialist to confirm it's injury that causes him to withdraw after the tournament started.

Yeah. And TH should also be checked by authorized psychologists to confirm he was really pissed off by the line judge before he walked away from HK open.

To ask you the same question.. Do you have any evidence that CH had such a serious back injury a few days ago (that we for sure know didnt stop him to play a tough 3-setter a few days later) that he couldnt put up a fight against Bao..

Do you have any evidence to prove LYB didnt decide for CH to throw the game, becuase he flet Bao had had an easier run and it would benefit the "team" for him get a days rest before the final..



To ask you the same question... Do you have any evidence that "TWOBEER" does not have any "bad feeling" toward CH/LYB/CHN team to begin with?

Do you have any evidence to prove "TWOBEER" made his "intelligent guess" without any personal feeling involved???

Please... :o

I remember there were thread talking about "why more yonex broken than other brands". Many of us believe it's relative, as there are more Yonex in the market to begin with.

Same thing applied here. Why we see more CHN players do WO, espeically in later round. Isn't there similar "logic / intelligence" involved, as they have MORE representatives in the later rounds???

Put this way, say nation XXX has only 1 (A) player in final 4. CHN has 3 players (B, C and D)in final 4. The semi draw is A vs. C, B vs D. Then, both A and B don't feel well due to injuries. When A does WO, he's fine. When B does not feel well, he's a cheater. Come on, tell me how B going to do to avoid the "cheating claim".

So, the "intelligenc" we put in is, if you feel sick, you'd better know who's ur opponent. If you see your teammate name, you'd better kill urself. Otherwise, the fans going to kill u anyway, plus you are a "cheater". God... :(

I remember there were thread talking about "why more yonex broken than other brands". Many of us believe it's relative, as there are more Yonex in the market to begin with.

Same thing applied here. Why we see more CHN players do WO, espeically in later round. Isn't there similar "logic / intelligence" involved, as they have MORE representatives in the later rounds???

Put this way, say nation XXX has only 1 (A) player in final 4. CHN has 3 players (B, C and D)in final 4. The semi draw is A vs. C, B vs D. Then, both A and B don't feel well due to injuries. When A does WO, he's fine. When B does not feel well, he's a cheater. Come on, tell me how B going to do to avoid the "cheating claim".

So, the "intelligenc" we put in is, if you feel sick, you'd better know who's ur opponent. If you see your teammate name, you'd better kill urself. Otherwise, the fans going to kill u anyway, plus you are a "cheater". God... :(

Honestly speaking, if the WO is for tactical reason, it can never be proven. But if WO is due to injury, it can be easily proven.

The correct questions to ask are:
How many CHN v CHN matches were there? How many of those involve WOs?
How many CHN v (other) matches were there? How many of those involve CHN giving WO?

Those are only the simple questions. I am not bothered enough to do the research. But if someone were to be persistent enough, I think those are the right questions.

Of course, more complicated questions will be like:
If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs?
If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs?
The purpose of these questions is see what is the statistics if the title is assured.

This is spot-on. And I would venture the following guess with a big dose of confidence:

-If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? Nil
-If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? heaps especially if the other semi-finals involves non-Chinese player.


Honestly speaking, if the WO is for tactical reason, it can never be proven. But if WO is due to injury, it can be easily proven.

The correct questions to ask are:
How many CHN v CHN matches were there? How many of those involve WOs?
How many CHN v (other) matches were there? How many of those involve CHN giving WO?

Those are only the simple questions. I am not bothered enough to do the research. But if someone were to be persistent enough, I think those are the right questions.

Of course, more complicated questions will be like:
If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs?
If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs?
The purpose of these questions is see what is the statistics if the title is assured.

That's totally different case. CH's withdraw obviously benefitted BCL, who is his TEAMMATE, and is thus unfair to PG. On the other hand, there is no reason why TH would like to help LD. Another example is PG's withdraw to CY, there is no reason for PG to help CY.

btw, I don't agree with the proposal that CH should be checked. Players should have the right to withdraw if they feel playing the game could harm their bodies.

Yeah. And TH should also be checked by authorized psychologists to confirm he was really pissed off by the line judge before he walked away from HK open.

This is spot-on. And I would venture the following guess with a big dose of confidence:

-If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? Nil
-If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? heaps especially if the other semi-finals involves non-Chinese player.

That's a good comment. To make it more fair, we also need to get the data of all the nations, not just that of China.

-If Nation X v Nation X meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs?
-If Nation X all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs?

It is a common sense that if I am injured and I will face my teammate, it is easier for me to make a decision and WO. But if it is to face players from other countries, I will probably try harder and play even though I am injured. So only when you compare different nations, the data will be meaningful.

Also, about your comments of CHN-CHN meeting in final, if I remember correctly, in JO 05, Lin Dan vs Chen Hong, after a few rallies, Chen gave Lin a WO due to injury.

That's totally different case. CH's withdraw obviously benefitted BCL, who is his TEAMMATE, and is thus unfair to PG. On the other hand, there is no reason why TH would like to help LD. Another example is PG's withdraw to CY, there is no reason for PG to help CY.

btw, I don't agree with the proposal that CH should be checked. Players should have the right to withdraw if they feel playing the game could harm their bodies.

I think we are talking about lying. The accusation is that Chen Hong or China lied about his injury. And I think TH/INA lied about his being pissed off by the line judge.

Second, talking about unfair, after TH gave LD a walkover, wouldn't that be unfair to LD's next round opponent?

-If Nation X v Nation X meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs?
-If Nation X all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs?


Exactly. I encourage someone out there (not me, I'm too lazy) to gather these data. And after that, perhaps we can surmise something.

I think we are talking about lying. The accusation is that Chen Hong or China lied about his injury. And I think TH/INA lied about his being pissed off by the line judge.

Second, talking about unfair, after TH gave LD a walkover, wouldn't that be unfair to LD's next round opponent?

I think you misunderstood.

CH/CHN may or may not have lied, but he has a reason to lie. And the reason is that his team-mate will benefit.

TH/INA has no reason to lie. He has no reason to be unfair to LD's next opponent.

The correct questions to ask are:
How many CHN v CHN matches were there? How many of those involve WOs?
How many CHN v (other) matches were there? How many of those involve CHN giving WO?


Of course, more complicated questions will be like:
If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs?
If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs?


Seems some of us trying to build an ideal world, and let the numbers to solve all the proble in a "far less perfect" world. :cool:

If you want questions to back up "pure fairness" in the sport, let me give you several questions as well:

How many non-CHN team has to bench a WC champ in XXZ or runner up in XXF, because they only given limited entries to Olympics? :mad:

How many non-CHN teams has to watch a load of top 10 or top 20 ranking players can NOT even enter enough tournaments, due to limited entries?

How many non-CHN team greatly benefitted from the "limited entries" to qualify to send their rank 50's player to the big stage, at the cost of CHN (or other power house's) top 10s absence.


I agree that CHN's possible "team strategy" might be here or there. However, those are minors when it comes to result. They have to be GOOD enough to get into semi or finals 1st. It's not like all CHN game in the 1st round, and everyone gives others a WO, which result in half of the team auto enter next round without a match. They fight their way to there. Tell me, how many times other teams have the ability to get most of the spots in quarters to begin with? :(

Ask yourself, why there are so many CHN vs. CHN matches to even begin with? In theory, there are equal chances to every team, if they have enough good players. If they don't have enough, is that CHN's fault?

CH's withdraw obviously benefitted BCL, who is his TEAMMATE, and is thus unfair to PG.

If you lose, don't blame others get an easier draw or get a WO. I wonder in PG's career, did he ever receive a WO (from a teamamte or others). So, if he says yes, he should be auto dis-qualified for future playing? :eek: I agree that the draw is important, and sometimes, an easier early round match does give u a better chance (in a very limited degree, though). However, once you lose, only to prove that you are not fully prepared.

A true champion should be mentally and physically ready for all 3 rubber set match since round 1. If s/he has to rely on "oh, make sure I have easy draw, and my opponent has to have tough draw / absolute no WO" to win, his/her success won't last too long.

LD lost to Park after fight against TH, who obviously way too much better than most of other ppl's round 1 (or, much later round) opponent. So, should LD blame Park to have an "easier" draw in previous one. Therefore, LD deserve an rematch? :p

This is spot-on. And I would venture the following guess with a big dose of confidence:

-If CHN v CHN meets in final, what is the proportion of WOs? Nil
-If CHN all-semis, what is the proportion of WOs? heaps especially if the other semi-finals involves non-Chinese player.

Like I mentioned in the other post. Tell me why CHN have many more "internal match" to begin with? It's not because CHN freely gain more entries to begin with. It's because their players are good to begin with.

In theory, every team gain the same chances to reach that level, but clearly CHN is way dominate, which many ppl can't accept the fact.

Seems some of us trying to build an ideal world, and let the numbers to solve all the proble in a "far less perfect" world. :cool:

If you want questions to back up "pure fairness" in the sport, let me give you several questions as well:

How many non-CHN team has to bench a WC champ in XXZ or runner up in XXF, because they only given limited entries to Olympics? :mad:

How many non-CHN teams has to watch a load of top 10 or top 20 ranking players can NOT even enter enough tournaments, due to limited entries?

How many non-CHN team greatly benefitted from the "limited entries" to qualify to send their rank 50's player to the big stage, at the cost of CHN (or other power house's) top 10s absence.


I agree that CHN's possible "team strategy" might be here or there. However, those are minors when it comes to result. They have to be GOOD enough to get into semi or finals 1st. It's not like all CHN game in the 1st round, and everyone gives others a WO, which result in half of the team auto enter next round without a match. They fight their way to there. Tell me, how many times other teams have the ability to get most of the spots in quarters to begin with? :(

Ask yourself, why there are so many CHN vs. CHN matches to even begin with? In theory, there are equal chances to every team, if they have enough good players. If they don't have enough, is that CHN's fault?

I totally agree with you about the injustice of "limited entries". I will stand by you in advocating the removal of this rule. In fact I have mentioned this several times already.

BUT, it is a seperate matter. You cannot lump all these things together. In fact, it does your argument no good because what you are saying is that the CHN team got cheated in one way, so they should return the favour in another way, implying that you agree what they did was actually cheating (even if it's just to correct another injustice).

I don't have to ask myself why there are so many CHN v CHN matches. The answer is obvious. Because they are good. I am a big fan of the CHN team (after MAS team) because I am Chinese (race). But I am also a badminton fan, and I do not want the good matches to be forfeited just because they are playing one another. I want to see my heroes to win deservedly.

I totally agree with you about the injustice of "limited entries". I will stand by you in advocating the removal of this rule. In fact I have mentioned this several times already.

BUT, it is a seperate matter. You cannot lump all these things together. In fact, it does your argument no good because what you are saying is that the CHN team got cheated in one way, so they should return the favour in another way, implying that you agree what they did was actually cheating (even if it's just to correct another injustice).

I don't have to ask myself why there are so many CHN v CHN matches. The answer is obvious. Because they are good. I am a big fan of the CHN team (after MAS team) because I am Chinese (race). But I am also a badminton fan, and I do not want the good matches to be forfeited just because they are playing one another. I want to see my heroes to win deservedly.

In the ideal world, we want to see everyone to be nice and honest. However, in reality, it's hardly even come close. Since it's not perfect, we need our ways to protect our own value, especially if you are the ones to be ripped off to begin with. It's like, if someone comes to beat you up on the street, will you fight back (or, at least run away) to protect your own life? Or, you say, "oh, sir, fighting is no good. We need to keep good mannar". And hope he won't cause too much damage before the cops come to save your life? :eek:

Don't get me wrong, even if I sound to protect CHN team or LYB. Tell you the truth, I support Li Mao. During last TC, I was a huge supporter for Danes. My friends saw how sad I was, after I see Danes lost to CHN in probably their last try.

Back to the sport itself. There are many "strategies" used by the team, which is NOT favor to the fans. Many sports, if a team leading by so much, the coach clean the bench, and send in the reserves, and let the all stars take a rest. As our fans, we want to see the stars, as that's what we paid for. However, should we sue the winning team, as they did not "try hard" to entertain us? :rolleyes:

We as fans, have totally different value than the players or coaches. It's not fair for us to judge their decision. Because, the whole thing is a "conflict of interests", and no side should blame the other. Take a look if you are LYB. How you going to face your boss and fans, if you send all your all stars to kill each other, only let others (who might face a much easier semi) to capture the final trophy?

CH have had knocked out many of his Chinese-counterpart in many occasions, one of the most recent one would be the Final of China Open last year where he beaten BCL. Why there isn’t a team order if BCL is favored by LYB. And how about the fact that CH also beaten CJ in MO, no one ever mention about that match! Why there isn't a team order to favor CJ???? I like to hear some "intelligent" explanation!!!

Like I mentioned in the other post. Tell me why CHN have many more "internal match" to begin with? It's not because CHN freely gain more entries to begin with. It's because their players are good to begin with.

In theory, every team gain the same chances to reach that level, but clearly CHN is way dominate, which many ppl can't accept the fact.

You are assuming that people criticise the CHN team's "dirty trick" because of jealousy. It may be true for a portion of the critics but I think there are enough lovers of the sport here who have purer intentions.

I, in fact, understand why CHN wants to do this. It is purely for the overall result of the team, which is very professional. But don't ask me to agree with this. Badminton has focused too much on nationality. We should reduce that and strive for more individuality. I don't care if you call this idealistic.

CH have had knocked out many of his Chinese-counterpart in many occasions, one of the most recent one would be the Final of China Open last year where he beaten BCL. Why there isn’t a team order if BCL is favored by LYB. And how about the fact that CH also beaten CJ in MO, no one ever mention about that match! Why there isn't a team order to favor CJ???? I like to hear some "intelligent" explanation!!!

If it's the final, who cares? CHN has already won, so there is nothing to be gained by walkover.

As for other matches where there was no walkover, it is almost impossible for CHN team to walkover every single CHN v CHN match. Even LYB will not want to make badminton such a big farce. I'm not saying there is 100% (or even 50%) of walkovers when it comes to CHN v CHN, but the proportion is big enough to be conspicuous.

Sigh. At first I didn't believe CH gave the match to BCL. However, CH just lost a tough 3 game match against Hafiz B Hashim in Korea in less than 1 week. If CH really injured, he should just simply skip Korean open. That should quiet most of the critics.

In the ideal world, we want to see everyone to be nice and honest. However, in reality, it's hardly even come close. Since it's not perfect, we need our ways to protect our own value, especially if you are the ones to be ripped off to begin with. It's like, if someone comes to beat you up on the street, will you fight back (or, at least run away) to protect your own life? Or, you say, "oh, sir, fighting is no good. We need to keep good mannar". And hope he won't cause too much damage before the cops come to save your life? :eek:


I can use the same excuse to rob a bank. The world is out to get me, so I'm just fighting back in any way I can. A bit of the siege mentality syndrome.

Two wrongs don't make a right. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. :) yeah, it's a bit corny, I know, but I think it's true.

Sigh. At first I didn't believe CH gave the match to BCL. However, CH just lost a tough 3 game match against Hafiz B Hashim in Korea in less than 1 week. If CH really injured, he should just simply skip Korean open. That should quiet most of the critics.

I don't get this.

If we are sick enough, we got sent to ER. If we just don't feel well, we might just rest it up for a few days. The thing is, we do NOT know what CH will be, if he did NOT WO, and still go on to play. He might already be in the hospital or even going through an operation. I don't think it's fair to judge other ppl's health, because what WE think. Whether the chance is great or minor, I don't encourage anyone to risk it, if that's possible.

I don't see why CH should make a decision based on what others think. If he feels pain, WO. If he feels alright, fight. PG got sick, but he did not quit MO. As we thought he's on a roll, he quits KO. Did anyone say anything about "should vs. should not"??? Ok, he's not from CHN. So, whatever he does is good. :eek:

Sigh. At first I didn't believe CH gave the match to BCL. However, CH just lost a tough 3 game match against Hafiz B Hashim in Korea in less than 1 week. If CH really injured, he should just simply skip Korean open. That should quiet most of the critics.

That I do not agree. Peter was hospitalized. Yet he recovered quickly and captured the title. Why then it is hard to understand that Chen Hong also recovered after some treatment? He may be still bothered by his injury. That's why he lost to Hafiz.

I can use the same excuse to rob a bank. The world is out to get me, so I'm just fighting back in any way I can. A bit of the siege mentality syndrome.

Two wrongs don't make a right. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. :) yeah, it's a bit corny, I know, but I think it's true.


You don't have to go all out to be offensive due to the reality. However, being protective to yourself is necessary. If you purely rely on the god to save u, or one day the world turn to be utopia, then, your own chance to survive is pretty low. :cool:

Badminton has focused too much on nationality. We should reduce that and strive for more individuality. I don't care if you call this idealistic.


Saddly, in reality, sports in general got greatly influenced by politics. Never to metion, CHN athletes do "belong" to the nation (in some degree) to begin with, as the nation paying for everything (even salary), and consider this as an investment.

If you agree to work for someone, it's necessary to pay for your duty in someway, as long as it's not obviously against the written rule or human principle. ;)

If you don't want to pay the duty to begin with, you should never accept the offer to begin with. Say, quit the government owned sports schools, and hire your own coach to train even begin when you are 5 years old. Then, participate in all the tournies at your own cost, fail at your own risk. Then, you have an agruement of purely "individual".

That I do not agree. Peter was hospitalized. Yet he recovered quickly and captured the title. Why then it is hard to understand that Chen Hong also recovered after some treatment? He may be still bothered by his injury. That's why he lost to Hafiz.

I dont think anybody is saying that it COULD not have been exactly like you say.. He was injured, couldnt possibly play the semi, but the recovered well enough to try if it held-together in the Korean Open..

And it was just by chance it happened to be Bao his teammate who got an win without breaking a sweat..

You can choose to beleive that..

But other people may choose to beleive LYB made a decision based on who he thought would have the best chance to clinch the MO title to China..

And they must have the right to their "suspicions". or must we all agree??

/T

I don't get this.

If we are sick enough, we got sent to ER. If we just don't feel well, we might just rest it up for a few days. The thing is, we do NOT know what CH will be, if he did NOT WO, and still go on to play. He might already be in the hospital or even going through an operation. I don't think it's fair to judge other ppl's health, because what WE think. Whether the chance is great or minor, I don't encourage anyone to risk it, if that's possible.

I don't see why CH should make a decision based on what others think. If he feels pain, WO. If he feels alright, fight. PG got sick, but he did not quit MO. As we thought he's on a roll, he quits KO. Did anyone say anything about "should vs. should not"??? Ok, he's not from CHN. So, whatever he does is good. :eek:

LB, you seem to think CH is free to call the shots, and choose when to play or not.. But you also say Chinese players "belong" to the nation, and that they should "pay duty"..

This makes me beleive that even with a quite serious injury CH would play a game if told so by the "nation"s representative (in this case LYB)..

And I cant help thinking, that maybe LYB would have told him to play if the semi had been against LCW instead of Bao.. Of course this could be totally wrong, maybe LYB would have let CH WO even against LCW.. maybe...
I dont know for sure, you probably don't know for sure either??

So it all comes down on how much we believe in coincidenses...

You may think someway someone else may think differently.. No harm in that??

/T

You don't have to go all out to be offensive due to the reality. However, being protective to yourself is necessary. If you purely rely on the god to save u, or one day the world turn to be utopia, then, your own chance to survive is pretty low. :cool:

Besides the "limited entry" rule, I don't see any reason why China needs to be so protective, as if the whole world is out to get them.

To a lesser extent, the "limited entry" rule also penalises other powers like Malaysia (who have a lot of doubles players) for instance.

This rule is only used in WC, Olympics and now the SS Finals. (For Olympics, I believe we have to follow some Olympic regulations anyway, so nothing we can do about that.) Furthermore, sending the top 3 or 4 player/pair is good enough to win titles. Even the Chinese don't expect their 5th-ranked player/pair to win. As for other individual events, you can enter as many players as you like.

Finally, the rule is not meant to be malicious. It is meant to spread the interest in badminton to other regions in the world.

So yes, the "limited entry" rule is unjust, and I would like it to be eliminated, but at least I understand the non-malicious reasoning behind it.

Saddly, in reality, sports in general got greatly influenced by politics. Never to metion, CHN athletes do "belong" to the nation (in some degree) to begin with, as the nation paying for everything (even salary), and consider this as an investment.

If you agree to work for someone, it's necessary to pay for your duty in someway, as long as it's not obviously against the written rule or human principle. ;)

If you don't want to pay the duty to begin with, you should never accept the offer to begin with. Say, quit the government owned sports schools, and hire your own coach to train even begin when you are 5 years old. Then, participate in all the tournies at your own cost, fail at your own risk. Then, you have an agruement of purely "individual".

If you follow table tennis, you will notice that the Chinese setup is similar to their badminton setup. But table tennis, as far as I recall, has never been accused of tactical withdrawals. It is not uncommon for their top player to be knocked out by their counterpart before the finals.

The difference between you and me is that you are arguing for the cause of China (or LYB) while I am arguing for the cause of badminton.

If anyone needs to use dubious tactics for better results, it would be the smaller badminton countries. With such a vast amount of talent, why would China feel the need to use unsporting manouvres that others don't use?

Nobody here as far as I can read, has claimed to have proof and evidence of LYB fixing the match.

But we can all make intelligent guesses and discuss about how bad it all looks..

To ask you the same question.. Do you have any evidence that CH had such a serious back injury a few days ago (that we for sure know didnt stop him to play a tough 3-setter a few days later) that he couldnt put up a fight against Bao..

Do you have any evidence to prove LYB didnt decide for CH to throw the game, becuase he flet Bao had had an easier run and it would benefit the "team" for him get a days rest before the final..

/Twobeer

Is CH's loss to Hafiz good enough evidence or do you want to diagnose his injury personally?

Is CH's loss to Hafiz good enough evidence or do you want to diagnose his injury personally?

No, it's not good evidence.

Is CH's loss to Hafiz good enough evidence or do you want to diagnose his injury personally?
No, it is not a good evidence becoz Hafiz has beaten Chen Hong before. Furthermore, CHen Hong lost to Hafiz in a close encounter with the score of the rubber set 18-21.If he was injured, I am really amazed at how fast he could recover from his waist injury and could give such a good fight.

For those who question Peter Gade's walkover, i read in NST that he is suffering from an upset stomach dring Korea Open.

If he was injured, I am really amazed at how fast he could recover from his waist injury and could give such a good fight.

What kinda logic is that?

PG was hospitalized right before MO, and he went on to take the title. Maybe we should call it "miracle"? :rolleyes:

I am not trying to deny there's possibility CHN team has issued some "order" that might pissed off the fans (especially the ones support other teams). All I got fed up is, whenever such issues happen, CHN team and LYB is automatically got sent to the judge. Like I always said, the world is not perfect. There are always ppl playing around "grey area". As long as they did not clearly violate the rule book, there's nothing wrong from the score sheet point of view. If you want to win the game, you have to be well understand and prepared for such issues, whether you are on the favorable side or not.

I got a bit upset, because I see there are some sort of "double standard" here:

Non CHN gives WO (i.e. PG got WO from teammate, WCH or Roslin got WO from Roslin or WCH during WC2003): It's alright, minor incident.

Non CHN gets trophy: True champ cracking great wall.

CHN gives WO: Damn cheater + LYB sucks

CHN gets trophy: They won because they get easier draws, gets an WO, gettting issues with fans, etc.

So, see my point? :o

LB, you seem to think CH is free to call the shots, and choose when to play or not.. But you also say Chinese players "belong" to the nation, and that they should "pay duty"..



CHN case is a bit different than other teams. I did say yes to both, and it really involves both.

If a non-CHN player faces an issue, him/herself is the major factor whether s/he will play. If a CHN player faces an issue (especially for a sickness not as serious as a non-brainer decision), there are 2 parties involved in decision make. The player him/herself, and the coaching staff.

I can think, for non-CHN, the decision making ratio is like 9:1 favoring the player. For CHN, the ratio might be 5.5 vs 4.5, which means the coaching staff can have great influence. :rolleyes:

What kinda logic is that?

PG was hospitalized right before MO, and he went on to take the title. Maybe we should call it "miracle"? :rolleyes:

I am not trying to deny there's possibility CHN team has issued some "order" that might pissed off the fans (especially the ones support other teams). All I got fed up is, whenever such issues happen, CHN team and LYB is automatically got sent to the judge. Like I always said, the world is not perfect. There are always ppl playing around "grey area". As long as they did not clearly violate the rule book, there's nothing wrong from the score sheet point of view. If you want to win the game, you have to be well understand and prepared for such issues, whether you are on the favorable side or not.

I got a bit upset, because I see there are some sort of "double standard" here:

Non CHN gives WO (i.e. PG got WO from teammate, WCH or Roslin got WO from Roslin or WCH during WC2003): It's alright, minor incident.

Non CHN gets trophy: True champ cracking great wall.

CHN gives WO: Damn cheater + LYB sucks

CHN gets trophy: They won because they get easier draws, gets an WO, gettting issues with fans, etc.

So, see my point? :o

I see your point, But I dont think it needs to be anti-china to be suspiscious..

Personally I would have been suspicious if without any indication that Kenneth got injured in the quarter final, he suddenly left WO to Gade in the Semis citing injury, and then went on to play in Korea..

So i really don't think (at least for me persoanlly) that I have double standards..

/Twobeer

Ok, this is my intention "double post" and a bit off topic. ;)


I think my frustration from the work really got me the past 2 days. If any of my replies seemed to be very offensive or harsh, please accept my apology. :o

Let's focus on the game itself. :D