Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.

Why Uber Cup? Why Australian Open tennis (men's singles)? Why golf? Why badminton women's doubles?

You can ignore it when the time comes, but I will be giving it my full attention. As long as the nations fighting for the Cup, for promotion or for better placings, are passionate, I'm all for it.

Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.

It's like saying don't hold the football World Cup because Brazil dominates each time. Don't hold the cricket World Cup because Australia's beating the crap out of everyone. Don't hold any more women's squash events because Nicol David's winning every one she enters. Without competition how are challengers going to improve? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.

Tennis Hopman Cup which format quite similar w/ Sudirman Cup since 1989 although this Hopman rather lack of popularity compare than Davis and Fed Cup.

Yeah,on paper CHN is obviously powerful to defend SC next June but everything will happen such as in 2003 when CHN was also so dominance at that year, in the end SC back to KOR.

PBSI has targeted bring SC to the homeland of its creator because it's very humiliating for INA has only won once at inaugural moment in 1989. We'll see how hard for other countries to stop CHN then in Glasgow!

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.

So, to you, sports is all about money or a trophy? :eek:

If that's the case, there's should be no more soccer world cup, after Brazil won it 3 times in a row back in 1960s(?). There should be no basketball as Dream Team I won average 30+ points (as they did took it easy many times) in 1992 Olympics. And many more as others also listed.

If you lose a game, make sure train harder and fight harder and smarter next time. Simply giving up the hope is a no-no for sport, or for life. :o

exactly, CHN can't stay dominant forever ... well ... i certainly hope not.
though i do agree that it'll be difficult seeing anyone beating them this year, since their line-up is so formidable --->

LD (No. 1)
XXF (No. 1)
CY/FHF (No. 1)
GL/HS (No. 1)
XZB/ZYW (if you count average points per tournament, also No. 1!) :eek:

It's like when a country dominates, then skip the SC event that year!? That doesn't make sense. If China has been winning every SC since the 1st one, other countries already gave up and start sending 2nd or 3rd stringer, then there is no point continuing it.

I think Indonesia has a very good chance to give China some trouble. In the Asian games, the Indonesian WS and WD show a lot of potential when facing China in the group events but lost. They already have strong XD.


MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 45 - INA 55
WS: CHN 55 - INA 45
WD: CHN 60 - INA 40
XD: CHN 55 - INA 45

MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 45 - INA 55
WS: CHN 55 - INA 45
WD: CHN 60 - INA 40
XD: CHN 55 - INA 45


I would say it's more like ....

MS: CHN 55 - INA 45
MD: CHN 50 - INA 50
WS: CHN 70 - INA 30
WD: CHN 65 - INA 35
XD: CHN 50 - INA 50

Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.
Badminton just like other sports, have no sure winners. China may be strong in almost all events but that's no guarantee that they will win. The result of the recent Malaysian open is a good example when China got defeated in events they used to dominate.

Badminton just like other sports, have no sure winners. China may be strong in almost all events but that's no guarantee that they will win. The result of the recent Malaysian open is a good example when China got defeated in events they used to dominate.

even so, they still managed to win the majority of the titles so far in the super series, and this isn't just against 1 country, this is against the rest of the world!

MO - 3/5 titles.
KO - 4/5 titles.

i would go so far as to say that i would find it mildly shocking if CHN don't manage to win at least 60% of the titles in any of the super series tournaments this year (with the caveat that they send most of their first team squad).

No body understands my point, except CLELY. :) Thanks CLELY. But unfortunately we have different ideas.

Even though Hopman Cup has never as popular as David cup and Fed cup, but it is still much more interesting one than Sudirman cup. First Hopman is not the competition between nations, it is between couples. I will support this format 100% in badminton, which must be very interesting. The format of Hopman Cup goes like this. Every single man and woman can form a team to compete 3 matches:
1) one women's singles match;
2) one men's singles match;
3) one mixed doubles match

then determine the winner. therefore, my points even got proved stronger by

1) Hopman Cup has never as popular as David cup and Fed cup
2) Hopman cup is so different between Sudirma cup.
2-1) Hopman cup is not competition between nations
2-2) Hopman cup team consists only 2 players
2-3) only 3 matches using 2 players

I will support using Hopman cup format to replace the Sudirman cup format which has been proved once again how boring it is.

Now, still, after so many replies here, still no body found any Sudirman-like in any other sports. Even though CLELY rediscovered a dying but interesting one.

My post was not about China which I used as an example. So I didn't either pro or against China. I just want to point out that Sudirman cup is a very weird format, especially in badminton, because China dominates alll the events. It might be more meaningful to have a China-Rest of the world cup, in which China will still win easily.

Exactly as "fastdrop" argued, even China choked in Malaysia open, it still claimed 3 titles out of 5.

i would like to see the format like we have for leagues here in the uk, though how feasible this is is questionable. for those who are unfamiliar with the doubles league system here, it's basically 3 pairs of doubles, all playing each other (well, i don't mean you play against your own teammates, just against all the other pairs of the opposing team).

so say for instance MAS 1 will have to play INA 1, INA 2 and INA 3 and so on and so forth. so it's effectively a best of 9 match, all played on the same day/night. i know in some leagues they have different points awarded depending on whether you win 5-4, 6-3 or 7-2 and above. makes an interesting change, but logistics may be problematic .... of course, this system works for singles as well.

CHN is strong, but that does not mean they never lost, just look at 2003. With the 5 match format (1 per event), and 21 pt NSS, there's more "upset" can be created.

I will say, if there're more matches and 15 pt OSS, then, it's almost a "mission impossible" to crack the great wall. ;)

i would like to see the format like we have for leagues here in the uk, though how feasible this is is questionable. for those who are unfamiliar with the doubles league system here, it's basically 3 pairs of doubles, all playing each other (well, i don't mean you play against your own teammates, just against all the other pairs of the opposing team).

so say for instance MAS 1 will have to play INA 1, INA 2 and INA 3 and so on and so forth. so it's effectively a best of 9 match, all played on the same day/night. i know in some leagues they have different points awarded depending on whether you win 5-4, 6-3 or 7-2 and above. makes an interesting change, but logistics may be problematic .... of course, this system works for singles as well.

The tournament, according to your format, will take one entire day just to finish one group match. Not quite possible and surely will turn boring.

Sudirman Cup can't be compared with Hopman Cup. In tennis, people don't care double much because it's all serve and volley. All 4 players stand in front of the net trading volleys. And most single players just simply play double to practice their volley. But people do care about badminton double also. Look at how people support Dim Dong Moon, Tony Gunawan, KKK, .... Just removing the WD and MD won't make SC less "boring". In my opinion, I think the current format is just fine.

We'll see how hard for other countries to stop CHN then in Glasgow!
..i'm sure other countries will try very hard in competing with CHN and i understand anything can happen, but looking at it realistically, i doubt if the CHN squad "can be stop"(esp. now with the newly formed XD tandem of GaoLing & ZhengBo;); unless of course the CHN squad "self-destruct" or injuries befall on their team(gudforbid and the chance of that happening is a very slim one)..:p ;)
Btw, i, too, like the current format of the Sudirman Cup..with the XD "acting" as the tiebreaker..;):cool:

Is wrong to have the China factor in the argument. If you argue about the format, it is fine but once you have China factor it is something else.
You don't need to have other sport to have the same format, Sudirman cup is unique as it is and remember that is not only the Division one which is consist of the big countries but there is all the other 40-50 countries involve.

The thing I against most is not just the format, it is the team format based on nations. Especially because China stands there, it is way away a balanced fair competition.

I was not saying MD and WD inferior to XD, although I said before all doubles inferior to singles. Why Hopman cup has special meaning in badminton, because it is based on couples instead of nations. For example, China can have several couples, such as, Lin Dan-Xie Xingfang; Chen Hong-Gao Ling; or Zheng Bo(he used to be single player before)-Gao Ling; Bao CL-Zhang Ning; Chen Jin-Zhu Lin; ...; and Malaysia Lee CW-Wong MC; or even Wong CH-Wang Chen(from Hong Kong)..., people can form a team cross countries. Taufik with Gong RN(she likes Taufik a lot).

When a men paired with a women, the 3rd match has to be Mixed double. If you want to see men's double, it is also okay to have a gay version of the Hopman cup, which has two men's singles(or even just 1 men's single) and 1 men's double, and also lesbian version of Hopman cup, which a team consists only two women playing 1 women single (or 2) and 1 women double. For straight couples, there must be 1 men single, 1 women single and 1 mixed double. While for gay and lesbian couple, there could be just 1 single (the best of two) and 1 double which are enough. The winner could be the one winning the best sets or points instead of the 3rd match. For the gay couple, it is extremly interesting because it is really hard to predict who's going to win. Lin Dan-Fu Hai Feng? or Taufik-Kido? or LCW-KKK or Bao CL-Zheng Bo?

This way must be more interesting, we will know who are the best straight couple in badminton, and who are the best gay couple, and who are the best lesbian couple. Don't you guys believe that would be much more interesting than the national competition which China will win for sure.

I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...

One good example is "indra", who claimed himself the number 1 fan of Taufic, but many times, he wanted Simon Satoso win the title instead of Taufic, I was surprised and asked why, he said that's better for the future of Indonesia. Then I realized that indra supported Taufik not because Taufic himself, intead, indra supports Taufik because indra is an enthusiastic patriot, His support to Indonesia never changed, supporting Taufik is just because Taufik is an Indonesian.

I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...


There is nothing wrong with that. If most people like it, Sudirman Cup needs to be continued with the current format. I think instead of changing Sudirman Cup's format, I think your suggestion should be "Should there be a new tournment like Hopman Cup for badminton?".

... In tennis, people don't care double much because it's all serve and volley. All 4 players stand in front of the net trading volleys. ...

it is not just volley in tennis, Actually, after Edberg and Becker, more people like to play baseline, from Michael Chang, Jim Courier through Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras, all the winners are baseliners.

Reality check, it is Badminton just trading volleys which, according to you, makes the doubles boring. ;)

There is nothing wrong with that. If most people like it, Sudirman Cup needs to be continued with the current format. I think instead of changing Sudirman Cup's format, I think your suggestion should be "Should there be a new tournment like Hopman Cup for badminton?".

Maybe you are right, but who i am. My suggestion means nothing. The only thing I can do is just to find a place to complain. :rolleyes:

The thing I against most is not just the format, it is the team format based on nations. Especially because China stands there, it is way away a balanced fair competition.

I was not saying MD and WD inferior to XD, although I said before all doubles inferior to singles. Why Hopman cup has special meaning in badminton, because it is based on couples instead of nations. For example, China can have several couples, such as, Lin Dan-Xie Xingfang; Chen Hong-Gao Ling; or Zheng Bo(he used to be single player before)-Gao Ling; Bao CL-Zhang Ning; Chen Jin-Zhu Lin; ...; and Malaysia Lee CW-Wong MC; or even Wong CH-Wang Chen(from Hong Kong)..., people can form a team cross countries. Taufik with Gong RN(she likes Taufik a lot).

When a men paired with a women, the 3rd match has to be Mixed double. If you want to see men's double, it is also okay to have a gay version of the Hopman cup, which has two men's singles(or even just 1 men's single) and 1 men's double, and also lesbian version of Hopman cup, which a team consists only two women playing 1 women single (or 2) and 1 women double. For straight couples, there must be 1 men single, 1 women single and 1 mixed double. While for gay and lesbian couple, there could be just 1 single (the best of two) and 1 double which are enough. The winner could be the one winning the best sets or points instead of the 3rd match. For the gay couple, it is extremly interesting because it is really hard to predict who's going to win. Lin Dan-Fu Hai Feng? or Taufik-Kido? or LCW-KKK or Bao CL-Zheng Bo?

This way must be more interesting, we will know who are the best straight couple in badminton, and who are the best gay couple, and who are the best lesbian couple. Don't you guys believe that would be much more interesting than the national competition which China will win for sure.
(sorry 2cents, but i'm reading esp. the last paragraph)...
:confused: ...heh???:confused: ...huh???...:confused:...will this be one of the signs of the time??..:confused: :eek::p

Without competition how are challengers going to improve? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Yeah I agree, the level of China's team is sort of like a level for other countries to aim for. It's easier to reach something if you know what you're aiming for :).

Besides if China has worked hard they deserve to win the Sudirman Cup. It shouldn't be cancelled because a certain country is a favourite for the title. It's also not completely certain they will win. A lot can change in a short time (not saying it will but you never know). I mean look at KKK/TBH, a new pairing and they have already won the AG and beaten TG/CW.

Still I think a Hopman Cup style tournament would be very interesting in Badminton :D.

Oh and baseline Tennis is rubbish. It's far more interesting when they have the guts to go into the net :).

I dont think there is anything wrong with the SC format. The fact that there is no other sports competition like that only mean that it is unique, but that does not mean that SD should not exist.

The good thing about SC format is it allows a nation to show how all rounded badminton has developed in the country. Without an all-rounded development plan and enough participation from the mess, one cannot produce a team that stand a good chance to win to all disciplines of MS, MD, WS, WD and XD.

China happens to dominate most of the fields (I said most, because China does not gurantee to win MS, MD and XD) and the team is more evenly balanced than other countries, that give them a higher chance to win the competition. Instead of questioning the competition format itself, I would argue that for other nations badminton associations to check if they do have a good spread of their focus and resources in developing badminton to all genders.

As for the modified Hopman Cup style suggested by 2cents, I am not sure how sexual orientation has to do with badminton or any sports, but any competition using that as basis is only for novelty sake. It may surely generate enough headlines, but they may not be for the right reasons.

it is not just volley in tennis, Actually, after Edberg and Becker, more people like to play baseline, from Michael Chang, Jim Courier through Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras, all the winners are baseliners.

Reality check, it is Badminton just trading volleys which, according to you, makes the doubles boring. ;)

Well, the players you mentioned were never top double players. True, single players are getting harder to play at the net because the new rackets creating so much power that the passing shots are liked bullets. But double in tennis is different. Two 6'3" players standing in front of the net can block almost every shots back. That's why the top double players have to play serve and volley.

The thing I against most is not just the format, it is the team format based on nations. Especially because China stands there, it is way away a balanced fair competition.


What is wrong with team format based on nations? Thomas Cup, Uber Cup, World Cup, many Olympic events etc. are team events based on nations.

Based on your reasoning, Uber Cup should be even more qualified for elimination. China is even more assured of winning the Uber rather than the Sudirman. Anyway, how do you judge that someone is dominant before the event? Why penalise the dominant team from winning something?


I was not saying MD and WD inferior to XD, although I said before all doubles inferior to singles. Why Hopman cup has special meaning in badminton, because it is based on couples instead of nations. For example, China can have several couples, such as, Lin Dan-Xie Xingfang; Chen Hong-Gao Ling; or Zheng Bo(he used to be single player before)-Gao Ling; Bao CL-Zhang Ning; Chen Jin-Zhu Lin; ...; and Malaysia Lee CW-Wong MC; or even Wong CH-Wang Chen(from Hong Kong)..., people can form a team cross countries. Taufik with Gong RN(she likes Taufik a lot).


Let's get this straight. Hopman Cup is a competition between nations. The competing couple must be from the same nation. Sudirman Cup is nothing like the Hopman; badminton nations take the Sudirman Cup much more seriously.

It's alright to think doubles are inferior to singles (they all can't be equal), but they are still worth an Olympic event, including XD. Olympics have scrapped XD in tennis and table tennis, but badminton XD is deemed worthy, for now.


When a men paired with a women, the 3rd match has to be Mixed double. If you want to see men's double, it is also okay to have a gay version of the Hopman cup, which has two men's singles(or even just 1 men's single) and 1 men's double, and also lesbian version of Hopman cup, which a team consists only two women playing 1 women single (or 2) and 1 women double. For straight couples, there must be 1 men single, 1 women single and 1 mixed double. While for gay and lesbian couple, there could be just 1 single (the best of two) and 1 double which are enough. The winner could be the one winning the best sets or points instead of the 3rd match. For the gay couple, it is extremly interesting because it is really hard to predict who's going to win. Lin Dan-Fu Hai Feng? or Taufik-Kido? or LCW-KKK or Bao CL-Zheng Bo?

This way must be more interesting, we will know who are the best straight couple in badminton, and who are the best gay couple, and who are the best lesbian couple. Don't you guys believe that would be much more interesting than the national competition which China will win for sure.

Interesting point, although note that using sexual orientation will not help to promote your point.

In badminton, as in tennis, players are usually specialised in either singles or doubles, especially for the top players. In top-level Davis Cup, Fed Cup Thomas Cup, Uber Cup, a lot of the doubles are played by doubles specialists. The exception is that mixed doubles is not a regular event in tennis. The men and women tour separately, except for Grand Slam events, perhaps the only events to feature XD. Since the forming of an XD partnership is ad-hoc anyway, therefore, Hopman Cup is possible. But due to its ad-hoc basis, it is not taken as seriously as Davis or Fed Cup. Same goes for badminton. If Lin Dan were to form a partnership with Xie Xingfang, I admit it will be very interesting, but no one will take the results that seriously.

I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...

One good example is "indra", who claimed himself the number 1 fan of Taufic, but many times, he wanted Simon Satoso win the title instead of Taufic, I was surprised and asked why, he said that's better for the future of Indonesia. Then I realized that indra supported Taufik not because Taufic himself, intead, indra supports Taufik because indra is an enthusiastic patriot, His support to Indonesia never changed, supporting Taufik is just because Taufik is an Indonesian.

"indra" is not a good example. It is an extreme example. That's a huge brush you are painting all of us with.

It is not black and white. It is grey. Sports enthusiasts tend to find someone to support. The easiest that comes to mind would be your fellow countrymen, if they are any good in the sport. Of course, there are also those who are purely just patriotic and not really sports fans. Most people fall somewhere in between, and it's a huge range.

I am very confuse with 2cents arguments. If I am right, you're against China dominant in SD cup ? then it is not a strong base for your argument !, Hopman cup style of Badminton is hard because not too many players play both single and doubles.
And please don't be prejudice to other gender.

I would say it's more like ....

MS: CHN 55 - INA 45
MD: CHN 50 - INA 50
WS: CHN 70 - INA 30
WD: CHN 65 - INA 35
XD: CHN 50 - INA 50

mine is like this

MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 50 - INA 50
WS: CHN 65 - INA 35
WD: CHN 65 - INA 35
XD: CHN 50 - INA 50

exactly, CHN can't stay dominant forever ... well ... i certainly hope not.
though i do agree that it'll be difficult seeing anyone beating them this year, since their line-up is so formidable --->

LD (No. 1)
XXF (No. 1)
CY/FHF (No. 1)
GL/HS (No. 1)
XZB/ZYW (if you count average points per tournament, also No. 1!) :eek:

First, I should say you pointed out something important but missing in the ranking.

Then, if count average points per tournament, in mixed double, Zheng Bo/Gao Ling should be the No. 1 (still Chinese from mainland China) while XZB/ZYW is the 2nd. Here is the ranking after your correction method:

1) Zheng Bo/Gao Ling: 9200 points/tournament
2) XIE Zhongbo/ZHANG Yawen: 6753 points/tournament
3) WIDIANTO Nova/NATSIR Lilyana: 6569 points/tournament
4) ROBERTSON Nathan/EMMS Gail: 6145 points/tournament
5) PRAPAKAMOL Sudket/THOUNGTHONGKAM Saralee: 5749 points/tournament

Tennis is 100% professional sport and very individual (country never deep-involved to manage its tennis-athlete). Sport-freaks never care where one tennis player coming from. Meanwhile badminton is vice versa. No wonder, it's so rare find big names to participate in team-championship (Davis-Fed-Hopman) because GrandSlam is more important than team-competition. Probably the tennis pro doesn't take seriously if they win or lose in team event, no 'huge money' as one main reason.

In badminton so far, nationalism is #1.Thomas-Uber-Sudirman Cup plus Gold Medal in multisport event are more priceless (although no prize-money) than 6* GP tourney. Where will badminton going further? Copycat to tennis? Maybe, major Asia countries love the current format of SC, don't know about opinion from western-countries.

The problem of lack interesting to watch SC recently : one country (CHN) is too powerful/extra strong. I didn't think SC was boring 10 or 12 years ago when CHN-INA-KOR-DEN were very balance in 5 sectors. So, is the format need to change because we can easy to predict (on paper) who will grab the next SC? No need, I guess. Dare for the others how to shock CHN! The reason for all shuttlers to compete in team-event (TUC/SC) is make their country/nation glorious not just-for-fun like invitational tournament.

I guess order to play for upcoming SC similar w/ the previous : XD-MS-WS-MD-WD. 2 divisions are all the way for CHN, the contenders 'only' try to get points in another 3.

I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...
That's definitely not the case with me. As much as I would like New Zealand to be a top badminton nation... it's not. I cheer on players from many different countries. However I still don't see what's so wrong with competing countries. A Hopman Cup style tournament could be totally dominated by a single pair, then what would be the difference?

I like the Sudirman Cup partly because it gives a pretty accurate idea of where each country ranks overall. I think it also makes it more important to countries not to simply focus on one game (Singles, Doubles etc.) or player, but rather to build up a good team.

First, I should say you pointed out something important but missing in the ranking.

Then, if count average points per tournament, in mixed double, Zheng Bo/Gao Ling should be the No. 1 (still Chinese from mainland China) while XZB/ZYW is the 2nd. Here is the ranking after your correction method:

1) Zheng Bo/Gao Ling: 9200 points/tournament
2) XIE Zhongbo/ZHANG Yawen: 6753 points/tournament
3) WIDIANTO Nova/NATSIR Lilyana: 6569 points/tournament
4) ROBERTSON Nathan/EMMS Gail: 6145 points/tournament
5) PRAPAKAMOL Sudket/THOUNGTHONGKAM Saralee: 5749 points/tournament

Simply averaging points cannot work because:
1. KKK/TBH and ZB/GL would shoot straight to World #1 after only one (or a few) tournaments.
2. Players will not want to attend minor tournaments, including home ones, although it can be circumvented by other rules besides averaging.

Most ranking systems I know do not use averaging. One system that I know of (WISPA - female squash tour) uses averaging (with minimum number of tournaments imposed), and has a flaw (the #2 flaw mentioned above).

That's definitely not the case with me. As much as I would like New Zealand to be a top badminton nation... it's not. I cheer on players from many different countries. However I still don't see what's so wrong with competing countries. A Hopman Cup style tournament could be totally dominated by a single pair, then what would be the difference?

I like the Sudirman Cup partly because it gives a pretty accurate idea of where each country ranks overall. I think it also makes it more important to countries not to simply focus on one game (Singles, Doubles etc.) or player, but rather to build up a good team.

I like the Sudirman Cup because of the sheer unpredictability (especially for someone who roots for Malaysia). In Thomas and Uber Cup, we more of less can give a pretty accurate guess on who will win because the pecking order is more well-defined.

The mixed format of the Sudirman Cup makes it unpredictable. Except for China matches, the competition can be very unpredictable. It also allows smaller countries to do well. Some countries have strong #1s but rather weak down the order. They cannot do well in Thomas/Uber but Sudirman is a different case. eg. Thailand, don't have much depth, but their #1s are pretty world class. Also, Sudirman is the only team tournament that involves mixed doubles.

exactly, CHN can't stay dominant forever ... well ... i certainly hope not.
though i do agree that it'll be difficult seeing anyone beating them this year, since their line-up is so formidable --->

LD (No. 1)
XXF (No. 1)
CY/FHF (No. 1)
GL/HS (No. 1)
XZB/ZYW (if you count average points per tournament, also No. 1!) :eek:

it is kinda boring if CHI is the one always winning all the tournaments. but we juz cant deny that how good the CHI players are.

It has the similarity with Michael Schumacher keep on winning the GP after GP after GP until Alonso started to shine and competed with him for the top spot. That were the nicest moments to watch F1.

I have a strong feeling that most people here are enthusiastic patriots who just want to see their nation wining then to be proud of instead of seeing who are really the best individuals in badminton. Sigh ...


thats why until now, Thomas Cup is the most-watched badminton tournament until now (in Asia).

it is kinda boring if CHI is the one always winning all the tournaments. but we juz cant deny that how good the CHI players are.

It has the similarity with Michael Schumacher keep on winning the GP after GP after GP until Alonso started to shine and competed with him for the top spot. That were the nicest moments to watch F1.

I guess that shows that even the mighty can be humbled. In every case, there is always someone better waiting to take your place, be it in F1 or badminton. No, I don't think the Sudirman Cup is boring at all. I quite agree with hcyong that there is a certain amount of unpredictability in it. I would say that if the next Sudirman Cup final featured MAS v CHN, you would not be too disappointed if the MAS team gave the CHN team a good run for their money and went down 2-3. That would indicate progress on behalf of the MAS team

Since China holds the 4 number 1 ranked players in 5 events. Even several number 2s. So there is no meaning to play Sudirman. It will be a gift to China without any doubt. China are used to winning 4 titles in most tournaments, Which means China can win easily against the rest of the world as a whole.

On the other aspect, every tournament is a Sudiman cup, just comparing each nation's performances and results. There is no need to have a special one to play Sudirman besides this is for sure won by China

Are there any other sports having the similar Sudirman cup? I didn't see any reason for the Sudirman cup besides it will bring some money to IBF (now WBF?) , while players get nothing, there is no prize money either.

If that is so..then china wont have to go full force..It proves that china still feels some tension going on between them n indonesia..

mine is like this

MS: CHN 50 - INA 50
MD: CHN 50 - INA 50
WS: CHN 65 - INA 35
WD: CHN 65 - INA 35
XD: CHN 50 - INA 50

I agree with u...

Btw,when is it going to be held?

The purpose (and continuation) of Sudirman Cup is really BWF's way to encourage Badminton associations to be all-rounded in their training system because many countries have the tendency of just focusing on (for example) grooming the men and neglecting the women. Sudirman Cup is the indication whether a country can truly pride itself as a nation capable of producing champions in all events and not just dominate one or two events.

Its similar to the idea behind Thomas Cup and Uber Cup, the difference however is that in Sudirman Cup, nations with less resources (economical or human capital etc) will have a decent fighting chance for the title, since they may only be capable of producing a limited number of top shots due to financial limitations or other reasons. For instance Thailand, has groomed very respectable though only one of each in the MS, XD and WD events that can give the title a shot on a good day. (What more this is the first Sudirman Cup under the uber unpredictable new points system!)

Also, the tournament is divided into divisions (think soccer league), so there is the premier league, 1st division, 2nd division etcetera. If you don't already know, a powerhouse like Malaysia only qualified to play in the 'premier league' only 3 times out of 9! Think about why soccer bother to have 1st and 2nd divisions leagues when all eyes are on the premier league. Well, didn't the then-unknown Senegal stunned the likes of Zizou, Henry and co. in 2002?

If badminton wants to raise its profile on the international scene (to put an end to all that lack of media & publicity which people oft complain) and not just be dubbed a "Chinese or Asian sport", then there need to be something to encourage other less able nations to participate in this sport, Sudirman Cup is a way to.

On paper, China appears the keenest contender but individual rankings don't speak a lot if you ask me because it boils down to how many tournaments your asso can afford to send you to play. And playing for a team is very very different from playing in an individual event, think about it ;) The entire dynamics is different, psychologically especially.

Furthermore, there is no direct prize incentive (perhaps the government may reward players if they bring the cup home, who knows). The point is to promote the spirit of sport; if badminton is reduced to a totally commercialised sport where the players are only keen to play and perform when there is money and personal glory at stake, I think badminton has failed as a sport which would be a shame.

(Smichz: its held on June 11-18!)

After watching the Singapore Open, I come to realise why Sudirman is still very important.

The reason is the inclusion of mixed doubles in a team tournament. Unlike 20 years ago (when only the Europeans seem to be interested), mixed doubles is now being taken very seriously by all self-respecting badminton nations. This is the main reason why badminton is allowed to keep mixed doubles in the Olympics while table tennis and tennis have lost theirs.

I feel we need a platform for mixed doubles to play an equal role with the other disciplines in a team tournament. And Sudirman Cup fits right in.

thinking of it, wouldnt it be great if there's a china vs rest of the world tournament like we always have in football?? we could have a best of 5 matches like in surdiman cup.. imagine lindan vs taufik (or chongwei), cy/fhf vs tg/cw (or kkk/tbh), etc etc.. tat would all be explosive matches isnt it.. great entertainment, great matches which i'm sure will generate a huge response from badminton lovers around the world..

i'm not trying to say china is the best, but it's a fact tat they're dominating almost every single event at present.. which i reckon is BAD for the sport.. so, instead of surdiman cup.. why not make changes to it, IBF??

just my 2 cents.. :)

Please..........

I don't think you can blame China being so dominant in Sudirman Cup.

How about INdonesia? Indonesia nearly dominate the badminton in 1991-1996. We had Susi Susanti,Mia, Alan, Ardi, Heriyanto and top notch MD Ricky, Rexy. Our MD is good and we had also good WD.

But we only win 1 Sudirman Cup title.

Although it look like China again with walk away with the title, about 90%. Other countries still had small chances to win it if they just fight all out.

In open tournaments, players take home hundreds of thousand dollars with them. But in Sudirman cup, no money for anyone, instead, the winner has to take care of the cup for 2 years for free. The winner has to pay the shipping and handling, the insurance and return the cup without any demage in 2 years. Which means, financially speaking, the winner has to lose money for free taking care of the cup, the storage, the maintainance, the insurance, the shipping and handling, ... all the costs. I really don't understand what those people fight for?

ha ha ha! well, in sports, if associations want more funding or sponsorship etcetera, the only way to 'earn' it is by the ability to show credibility which is measured by titles and every title counts. its about looking at the big picture ;)