All England Draws

[yannie]

Will be out tomorrow (Tuesday) at 6 pm Malaysia time!!!

The seedings are already out though:

http://www.badzine.info/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=199&Itemid=31&pop=1&page=0

PS. I know the second seeded Chen Jin is going for sure, cuz I've just talked to him. ;) And he's looking forward to the tournament.

[pramilainc]

Draws are out..

http://www.internationalbadminton.org/draws.asp

This time around 'unfortunate seed' is Hashim.

[Dreamzz]

wow, the MSQ group 3 is going to be a tough one.
WCH, Poompat, SS and KBH all fighting for 1 place, this could have been the semis line up for one of the smaller tournaments!
:eek:

[Dreamzz]

Draws are out..

http://www.internationalbadminton.org/draws.asp

This time around 'unfortunate seed' is Hashim.

yup, agreed, both brothers have a tough draw and should be out in the first round with Roslin facing LD and Hafiz facing TH.
on the plus side, we get to see LD vs TH again in the QF.

[wanalexwan]

wow, the MSQ group 3 is going to be a tough one.
WCH, Poompat, SS and KBH all fighting for 1 place, this could have been the semis line up for one of the smaller tournaments!
:eek:
Not to mention that the winner will face Simon Santoso or Kuan Beng Hong for the qualifying place.

[haifeng4ever]

Nice draw for KKK/TBH. They will not in the same half as korean pairs. Big relief for me.

[nugroho]

indo still has the worst draw ever after all...

[**KZ**]

I have a good feeling that KKK/TBH's gonna make an impact here

[Jessica]

Hei hei...KZ,just hope that you intuition correct this time because i have the same feeling with you too...The MS draw is interesting and it is a tough battle for every player.May the best player win.

[kenny7_2006]

draw's lookin good for MAS...

KKk-TBH will have a good path to QF, where they'l meet either ex-WC Paaske-Rasmussen or Kido-Setiawan... SF they might meet Eriksen and Hansen, or even CTF-LWW! hehe...

as for LCW, ok till QF, where he'll meet Chen Yu, then if go thru to SF, he'll meet most prob Chen Jin or Park Sung Hwan....

[Dreamzz]

draw's lookin good for MAS...

KKk-TBH will have a good path to QF, where they'l meet either ex-WC Paaske-Rasmussen or Kido-Setiawan... SF they might meet Eriksen and Hansen, or even CTF-LWW! hehe...

as for LCW, ok till QF, where he'll meet Chen Yu, then if go thru to SF, he'll meet most prob Chen Jin or Park Sung Hwan....

nope, i think CTF/LWW will likely lose in the first round to AC/RB, much as i hate to admit it. they just haven't produced anything to show that they can compete with the best anymore. KKK/TBH look good for QF clash with MK/HS, which i think they will win, but the SF against JE/ML wil be tough. i think the QF will be:

TBS/OSH vs LJJ/HWJ :eek:
JJS/LYD vs TG/CW
KKK/TBH vs MK/HS
AC/RB vs JE/ML


as for LCW, QF meeting with CY seems likely, i would expect him to get past CY though it'll be a tough match. against CJ in the SF, that'll be a different game and i'm afraid i can't see him winning that one. QF looks like fun, this is how i see it:

LD vs TH
PG vs BCL
CY vs LCW
KJ vs CJ

[ixory]

Hafiz Hashim gonna meet Taufik hashim for first round.wow hard.Now i should think who i wanna support??.:p :D

[gary_seeker]

KKK/TBH VS sigit/frans in 1st match, hum it was a nice setup to test the power of INA pair. Hope that sigit still can use all of his experiences to beat the MAS pair. Well just another hope haha, otherwise I'ms till epecting a good fight here

[westwood_13]

Being not intimitely familiar with the pros, I cannot even explain how confusing the initials system is, heh.

The only ones I can figure out... LD and TH ;)

[scminton]

TBS/OSH vs LJJ/HWJ->HJM !! it just mistake?;)
I'm Hwang Ji Man fan~!!:D

[MaLiq]

oh mann...what a bad draw for hafiz n roslin hashim......
hafiz has taufik in his way in the 1st round whereas roslins got lin dan....OMG:eek: :eek: :eek: ...i hope both MAS players win their matches..hehe:D :D ...but it will be unlikely though....but at least there will be an interesting repeat of the MO 1st round between LD and TH..that will be fun to watch..

LCW on the other hand, has a much easier path to the semis IMO.....i think he can neat Chen Yu but after that he's gonna meet the guy who took his world number 2 ranking, CJ in the semis...n it'll be hard to predict who's gonna win that match...

as for the MD....i hope i can see TBS/OSH come through the qualifying and meet CY/FHF in the 2nd round n i hope the MAS players can beat them again,...hehe..CTF/LWW have WC runners-up in their 1st round...that would be an interesting match to watch....cuz the MAS players have alot at risk in this tournament and the ENG players are playing on their home soil....as for KKK/TBH, i can really comment on their draw cuz i dont know their opponents that much but i hope they win the tourney ..hehe:D :D

[cooler]

oh mann...what a bad draw for hafiz n roslin hashim......
hafiz has taufik in his way in the 1st round whereas roslins got lin dan....OMG:eek: :eek: :eek: ...i hope both MAS players win their matches..hehe:D :D ...but it will be unlikely though....but at least there will be an interesting repeat of the MO 1st round between LD and TH..that will be fun to watch..

LCW on the other hand, has a much easier path to the semis IMO.....i think he can neat Chen Yu but after that he's gonna meet the guy who took his world number 2 ranking, CJ in the semis...n it'll be hard to predict who's gonna win that match...

as for the MD....i hope i can see TBS/OSH come through the qualifying and meet CY/FHF in the 2nd round n i hope the MAS players can beat them again,...hehe..CTF/LWW have WC runners-up in their 1st round...that would be an interesting match to watch....cuz the MAS players have alot at risk in this tournament and the ENG players are playing on their home soil....as for KKK/TBH, i can really comment on their draw cuz i dont know their opponents that much but i hope they win the tourney ..hehe:D :Di see roslin as a dark horse if LD take the early round lightly.

[Trang]

I can't see the draws. Can anyone copy them and put them in so I can see?
Sorry, for the trouble but I don't have the program on my computer to see, who's playing against who. (:

[cooler]

I can't see the draws. Can anyone copy them and put them in so I can see?
Sorry, for the trouble but I don't have the program on my computer to see, who's playing against who. (:
YONEX ALL ENGLAND SUPER SERIES
MENS SINGLES

Round1
50906 LIN Dan (CHN) 1*
7790 HASHIM M. Roslin (MAS)

9166 LEE Tsuen Seng (MAS)
Q-3 (Q-3)
12370 HASHIM Muhd Hafiz B (MAS) 5/8*

10337 HIDAYAT Taufik (INA)
11809 JOPPIEN Bjoern (GER)

50427 DWI KUNCORO Sony (INA)
6926 GADE Peter (DEN) 3/4*

6967 PALYAMA Dicky (NED)
11464 LEE Yen Hui Kendrick (SIN)
Q-4 (Q-4)

51274 BAO Chunlai (CHN) 5/8*
50170 SUSILO Ronald (SIN)

10319 PANG Eric (NED)
7408 VAUGHAN Richard (WAL)

11959 PONSANA Boonsak (THA)
Q-1 (Q-1)
51306 CHAN Yan Kit (HKG)

50931 CHEN Yu (CHN) 5/8*
51053 PERSSON Joachim (DEN)

Q-2 (Q-2)
11691 ANAND Chetan (IND)
50152 LEE Chong Wei (MAS) 3/4*

10302 YEOH Kay Bin (MAS)
51324 PARK Sung Hwan (KOR)

8396 WACHA Przemyslaw (POL)
4762 JONASSEN Kenneth (DEN) 5/8*


9662 NG Wei (HKG)
9567 AYOB Sairul Amar (MAS)

14078 SMITH Andrew (ENG)
51592 CHEN Jin (CHN) 2*

[ctjcad]

I can't see the draws. Can anyone copy them and put them in so I can see?
Sorry, for the trouble but I don't have the program on my computer to see, who's playing against who. (:
..just for Trang and others who don't have the program to see the draws, barring any last minute changes, pull-outs, re-draws, here they are..I will show each events in separate posts.;):) Here are the MS & MSQ draws:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-MS.jpg



http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-MSQ.jpg

[ctjcad]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-WS.jpg



http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-WSQ.jpg

[ctjcad]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-MD.jpg



http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-MDQ.jpg

[ctjcad]

notice there are only 8 pairs in the Qualifying group..
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-WD.jpg



http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-WDQ.jpg

[ctjcad]

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-XD.jpg



http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r310/ctjcad/AE07-XDQ.jpg

[westwood_13]

Quite a few canadians in there. Not like we'll do well, but still exciting to see that at least we're making it to the world stage.

[2cents]

An extremely unbalanced draw! and extremely unfair too!

The new tournament format makes the draw extremely unbalanced.

The all England open is a typical open tournament, which has usually 64 players in men's singles. The final winner of the tournament used to need to win 6 matches continuously without any lose. There used to be 6 rounds of matches, and it used to be perfect for a weekly schedules.

Now everything changed by the new format. There are still around 64 players, but for half of them 32 players, need to win only 5 matches to win the title, and for the other half of the players, the other 32 players, they need to win 8 matches continuously to win the title.

It is so unfair, and so unbalanced too. For example, in order to advance to the final 32, there are four groups each consists of 8 players. The world championship runner up Wong Choong Hann, Chinese number 5 Que Yanbo, Malaysia number 3 Kuan Ben Hong, Indonesia former number 1 (just two months ago) Simon Santoso, Indonesia best young star Sugiarto Tommy, and Thailand's number 2 Poompat, plus other players from Aus and Ger, together fighting for a position which Chetan Anand, Andrew Smith, Joppen, Lee Yen Hui, Vaughan, Chan Yankit, Wacha ... already have. What a unbalanced draw!

Wong CH+Que YB+Kuan BH+Simon S+Sugi Tommy+Poompt+Tho+Spitko
=Chetan Anand
=Andrew Smith
=Joppen
=Lee Yen Hui
=Vaughan
=Chan Yan kit
=Wacha

Such discrimination is just built on the creepy ranking system... :mad:

[ctjcad]

..after looking quickly at the draws, here are my takes:
- MS - First thing first: i would not say Taufik will win the AE. Why? His road looks very challenging. Sure, recent reports have mentioned that he's been preparing and training vigorously for this AE, but only IF, he's very prepared then i would give him a 90% chance of winning. But I'd say LinDan will be very prepared to defend his AE title. Unfortunately his most awaited match with Taufik will only occur in the QF, of couse if both are able to squeeze by their earlier opponents. On that note, the rest of the usual top challengers, ie. Gade, CJ, LCW, BCL, KJ should provide enough challenges for the top 2 "big boys", if they happen to meet each other. Some interesting questions to ponder: how will LCW respond and play after the departure of his recent coach?? Is he physically ready & fit.

- WS - well, what can i say, the party is "over". Well, "over" for those WS players who participated in the yr's opening 2 tournaments.:D:p As now we shall soon see CHN's WS squad in full force with the return of ZN. Remember in those 2 earlier tournaments, only XXF was present, and only in 1 of them.

- MD - i would say this event is, arguably, the most tantalizing of them all. The field is so even, from top to bottom, that it's hard to predict who will come out from each quarter. At the bottom half, I'll say this, KKK/TBH's road to the Final or even Semis or even to the QF won't be easy, as they probably will face 3 straight INA pairs. Looking at the top half, the senior faves TG&CW's road to the Final, IMO, won't be as tough. However they will meet 2 very familiar & tough opponents in LJJ&HJM, before possibly meeting either the winner of JJS&LYD and FHF&CY in the Semis. If those 2 aforementioned pairs of TBH&KKK and TG&CW are able to escape their respected half, boy, we shall witness another big clash. A barn-burner but this time it will be ala NIA England style..hehe:p :D ;) :cool:

- WD - Hmmm, no question either of CHN's top pairs will get the title again. However, i won't be surprised to see the newly formed INA tandem of GP&VM fight their way again, like they did in the recent 2 tourneys, and maybe even reach the Semis. Where most likely, their path will be stopped.

- XD - This is also another tantalizing event. Looking quickly, i would say the INA pair of FL&VM, in the bottom half, does have a pretty interesting road. If all go as planned, they'll most likely meet with AC&DK in the Semis. While, IMO, their top seeded compatriots in this event, NW&LN, will battle their way in trying to dispose of their opponents. And if they're tough enough, they will most likely meet the newly formidable duo of ZB&GL.

I know we're still abt 2 weeks away, but it should be a lot of fun, guys...So, hang on to your seat & enjoy the actions..;) :D :cool: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

*Good to see also 4 of the US National players are competing(in MD and XD respectively).;)

[2cents]

and the new format changes the total rounds of the tournaments from 6 rounds to 8 rounds which means 32 players in the qualification rounds have to player 3 matches a day! what a joke! when Badminton IBF changes its name to WBF (World Bondage Fed), it also changes to slavery system.

Wong CH, Simon,.. and all the 32 slaves are capable to win the title also. Why not let all the players play fairly???

[ctjcad]

..(in the bottom of half)whoah, that was a quick suspension...Sorry, i don't know the details on his final suspension verdict..:confused:

[Trang]

Cooler and Ctjcad . Thanks a lot ! I really appreciate it. :D

[Trang]

An extremely unbalanced draw! and extremely unfair too!

The new tournament format makes the draw extremely unbalanced.

The all England open is a typical open tournament, which has usually 64 players in men's singles. The final winner of the tournament used to need to win 6 matches continuously without any lose. There used to be 6 rounds of matches, and it used to be perfect for a weekly schedules.

Now everything changed by the new format. There are still around 64 players, but for half of them 32 players, need to win only 5 matches to win the title, and for the other half of the players, the other 32 players, they need to win 8 matches continuously to win the title.

It is so unfair, and so unbalanced too. For example, in order to advance to the final 32, there are four groups each consists of 8 players. The world championship runner up Wong Choong Hann, Chinese number 5 Que Yanbo, Malaysia number 3 Kuan Ben Hong, Indonesia former number 1 (just two months ago) Simon Santoso, Indonesia best young star Sugiarto Tommy, and Thailand's number 2 Poompat, plus other players from Aus and Ger, together fighting for a position which Chetan Anand, Andrew Smith, Joppen, Lee Yen Hui, Vaughan, Chan Yankit, Wacha ... already have. What a unbalanced draw!

Wong CH+Que YB+Kuan BH+Simon S+Sugi Tommy+Poompt+Tho+Spitko
=Chetan Anand
=Andrew Smith
=Joppen
=Lee Yen Hui
=Vaughan
=Chan Yan kit
=Wacha

Such discrimination is just built on the creepy ranking system... :mad:

Well, isn't it because they are in the qualifying matches? Then they have to play several matches before the tournament. I'm not saying that it's fair, but how was the system different back then than it is to this? :)
I don't know how they did it back then..

[Trang]

An extremely unbalanced draw! and extremely unfair too!

The new tournament format makes the draw extremely unbalanced.

The all England open is a typical open tournament, which has usually 64 players in men's singles. The final winner of the tournament used to need to win 6 matches continuously without any lose. There used to be 6 rounds of matches, and it used to be perfect for a weekly schedules.

Now everything changed by the new format. There are still around 64 players, but for half of them 32 players, need to win only 5 matches to win the title, and for the other half of the players, the other 32 players, they need to win 8 matches continuously to win the title.

It is so unfair, and so unbalanced too. For example, in order to advance to the final 32, there are four groups each consists of 8 players. The world championship runner up Wong Choong Hann, Chinese number 5 Que Yanbo, Malaysia number 3 Kuan Ben Hong, Indonesia former number 1 (just two months ago) Simon Santoso, Indonesia best young star Sugiarto Tommy, and Thailand's number 2 Poompat, plus other players from Aus and Ger, together fighting for a position which Chetan Anand, Andrew Smith, Joppen, Lee Yen Hui, Vaughan, Chan Yankit, Wacha ... already have. What a unbalanced draw!

Wong CH+Que YB+Kuan BH+Simon S+Sugi Tommy+Poompt+Tho+Spitko
=Chetan Anand
=Andrew Smith
=Joppen
=Lee Yen Hui
=Vaughan
=Chan Yan kit
=Wacha

Such discrimination is just built on the creepy ranking system... :mad:

How was the system back then? I mean, of course qualifying players have to play some matches to qualify.

[phaarix]

Thank you cooler and ctjcad, I could not view Excel files either :).

[2cents]

How was the system back then? I mean, of course qualifying players have to play some matches to qualify.

Top 64 players used to be in the main draw automatically. Players ranked below 64 needed to play qualification round.

Now only top 26 players are in the main draw. Players ranked between 27 and 59 needs to play qualification rounds, and players ranked below 59 will not have any chance to play at all.

Can you see the difference here?

[2cents]

Let's assume there is a new player who is even better than Lin Dan, will he be able to play World Championship and Olympic?

The answer is No! Because under the new system, he cannot play super series at all, he has to play some future series and international series first to get points, then enter the qualification rounds of the grand prix, then get enough points, and qualify for the qualification rounds of the super series, ..., long way to go. Even winning 10 future or international series (1700 points for the title winner) in a year, he can only collect 17000 points which make him the 65th in the ranking. He's not even able to play super series at all. He has to play the international series after the future series, and winning 10 international series, got 25000 points in the 2nd year, which can just put him 40th in the ranking. He's still not qualified to be in the main draw of the super series. Not mention the Olympic which even excludes players in the top 5, that's the reason Chen Hong stop playing.

The new system will hurt Indonesia the most. Why? Because Indonesia badminton club doesn't have much money to send their players to play international. The new system will stop new rising star from rising. So young players will not have much chance in the new system. and poor (economically poor) players will not have enough money to go through low level tournaments to begin their professional career.

[ants]

I agree with 2cents.

[westwood_13]

I also agree. This system will probably only more encourage players to move to badminton superpower countries from weaker ones, thus degenerating their programs and not helping to popularize the sport worldwide.

[2cents]

Since the draw picture here is hard to read, so I'd like to post mine:

http://drugphase.net/sportsphoto/draw0001.png

[2cents]

smaller fonts

http://drugphase.net/sportsphoto/sdraw.png

[nugroho]

who is atu rosalina?
is she pelatnas player?

[Armotec500]

Hafiz vs Taufik ????
At first round????

You can do it Hafiz...Show Taufik who's the master Bro :D:D:D

[Carbonex_21]

Hafiz vs Taufik ????
At first round????

You can do it Hafiz...Show Taufik who's the master Bro :D:D:D

forget it. the only one can beat taufik is lindan:D

[ctjcad]

who is atu rosalina?
is she pelatnas player?
http://www.tvbadminton.dk/Files/Billeder/samling2006/tr_13.jpg (at the right)
or you can go to this link (post #4)
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40736
yannie can probably fill you more on it.;)

[Armotec500]

forget it. the only one can beat taufik is lindan:D
hehehe i cannot say that coz' i will only support Hafiz for this whole year :D:D:D...
pity Hafiz, no fan to cheer him up before :p...never mind bro H, do ur best :D

[Carbonex_21]

hehehe i cannot say that coz' i will only support Hafiz for this whole year :D:D:D...
pity Hafiz, no fan to cheer him up before :p...never mind bro H, do ur best :D

Well, he is our hero. we should support him. I hope critism will make him stronger someday:D

[Armotec500]

Well, he is our hero. we should support him. I hope critism will make him stronger someday:D

Yeah, he is really an 'unexpected hero' sometimes :D:D:D...wishing Hafiz all the best in this coming AE against TH/Sony/LD :eek::eek::eek:

[Dreamzz]

very optimistic, for hafiz to win he has to beat TH, SDC, LD, PG and CJ.
ouch, that'll be tough, but then that'll be the same path for TH to win the title, i think it'll be hard to see him doing it this year.

[Armotec500]

very optimistic, for hafiz to win he has to beat TH, SDC, LD, PG and CJ.
ouch, that'll be tough, but then that'll be the same path for TH to win the title, i think it'll be hard to see him doing it this year.

sometimes we have to be optimictic eventhough it's not realistic :p
If Hafiz can beat them all, then Hafiz is definitely at his best :cool:
If not, then Bro H can try again next year :D

Anyway, i can hardly wait for AE to start :)

[Armotec500]

LCW has the easiest draw among MAS players, hope he can reach at least SF just like last year ;)

Good luck to all MAS players :cool::D

[Jessica]

Wow...Armotec500, you are really hafiz die hard supporter..Just hope what you wish can come true because i do hope he can do well.How about LCW? Seem like nobody care about him this time but i think he can do well too..Come on LCW, regain your confidence.

[Loh]

First probable upset of the day - Hashim Roslin shocked Lin Dan just as the latter was shocked by Park Sung Hwan in R2 of the recent Malaysia Open!

What do you think? Disappointed?

Can something like this happen to Taufik?

[Armotec500]

Wow...Armotec500, you are really hafiz die hard supporter..Just hope what you wish can come true because i do hope he can do well.How about LCW? Seem like nobody care about him this time but i think he can do well too..Come on LCW, regain your confidence.

Hahaha just like you Jess, i think you're really fan of LCW :p

Yeah, beside Hafiz, i also would like to see LCW redeem himself by at least reaching SF in this coming AE...based on his draw, i think LCW will do well :cool:

[Jessica]

Hahaha just like you Jess, i think you're really fan of LCW :p

Yeah, beside Hafiz, i also would like to see LCW redeem himself by at least reaching SF in this coming AE...based on his draw, i think LCW will do well :cool:Yeah...you should say all of us are malaysia players fans...:rolleyes: Just hope all the mas players perform well..:p

[Armotec500]

First probable upset of the day - Hashim Roslin shocked Lin Dan just as the latter was shocked by Park Sung Hwan in R2 of the recent Malaysia Open!

What do you think? Disappointed?

Can something like this happen to Taufik?
Of coz' something like this can also happen to Taufik because Taufik himself also can be regarded as Yoyo King like Bro Hafiz ...the difference between both of them is determination...Taufik already won most major titles except AE(this show's that he has superior determination sometimes), and Hafiz already won AE title except another major titles(Hafiz needs to strengthen his determination and i believe he is slowly getting there) ;)

[Trang]

Is it just me or do Atu Rosalina look a lot like 'Neela', the indian doctor, in the ER-series?

[yannie]

who is atu rosalina?
is she pelatnas player?

She is from Bandung, Indonesia. Currently playing for Skælskør Badminton Club in Denmark.
Since her other half is in London, she might move there soon.
I met her before in Denmark Open 2005 and 2006, but never talked.

[Loopy]

Ugh! IBF really messed it up big time with that kind of qualification.
+1 2cents.

BTW, isn't Lee Hyun Il playing? :(

[2cents]

Two big names missing in the draw:
Top 4 best still Chen Hong, the only one except Lin Dan winning two 6 star titles last year, and Number 11, Lee HI. Both seemed retired. But:

Chen Hong guaranteed that he would be back, probably in another team, Taiwan? or Fujian?

Li Mao promised to bring Lee HI back also.

[2cents]

Wong CH's path to the title:

Wong CH
︻ Sugiarto Tommy
︻︻ Best of Qiu YB and Poompat
︻︻︻ Best of Simon Santoso and Kuan BH
︻︻︻︻ Lee TS
︻︻︻︻︻ Lin Dan
︻︻︻︻︻︻ Taufik
︻︻︻︻︻︻︻ Best of Gade and Bao CL
︻︻︻︻︻︻︻︻ Best of Chen Jin and Lee CW

Unlike others who need only 5 wins to claim the title, Wong CH has to beat 8 strong competitors all the way to win.

Will Wong CH be the next Goran Ivanisevic? Goran won in England as a wildcard at the age of 30. Now it's Wong CH, at the age of 30, the same age of Goran, the same place as Goran, (England) and the same lowest ranked position in the draw. Most important, the same one of the most talented player waiting for the long time overdued luck.

Go Wong CH

[Trang]

That is a long and difficult way to the finals, very difficult indeed. The thing that I wonder or worry about is .. will his body be able to play all these games?

Lin Dan, Taufik & PG/BCL straight? That is a very strong field of players, but if he gives everything that he has in him and if he fights to the last point in every match, then I think that is a great accomplishment itself.

[Dreamzz]

i'm not sure but i believe goran's path to victory at wimbledon was much less difficult than what you predict for WCH here. loads of seeded players fall at wimbledon plus federer wasn't there yet, though sampras was!

[Han]

You actually have drawn out Choon Hann's "fate", he's not going to win the All England. I am just happy if he can advance to round 2 or 3. :o


Wong CH's path to the title:

Wong CH
︻ Sugiarto Tommy
︻︻ Best of Qiu YB and Poompat
︻︻︻ Best of Simon Santoso and Kuan BH
︻︻︻︻ Lee TS
︻︻︻︻︻ Lin Dan
︻︻︻︻︻︻ Taufik
︻︻︻︻︻︻︻ Best of Gade and Bao CL
︻︻︻︻︻︻︻︻ Best of Chen Jin and Lee CW

Unlike others who need only 5 wins to claim the title, Wong CH has to beat 8 strong competitors all the way to win.

Will Wong CH be the next Goran Ivanisevic? Goran won in England as a wildcard at the age of 30. Now it's Wong CH, at the age of 30, the same age of Goran, the same place as Goran, (England) and the same lowest ranked position in the draw. Most important, the same one of the most talented player waiting for the long time overdued luck.

Go Wong CH

[Armotec500]

She is from Bandung, Indonesia. Currently playing for Skælskør Badminton Club in Denmark.
Since her other half is in London, she might move there soon.
I met her before in Denmark Open 2005 and 2006, but never talked.

What a cute and sweet girl :p

[phaarix]

Two big names missing in the draw:
Top 4 best still Chen Hong, the only one except Lin Dan winning two 6 star titles last year, and Number 11, Lee HI. Both seemed retired. But:

Chen Hong guaranteed that he would be back, probably in another team, Taiwan? or Fujian?

Li Mao promised to bring Lee HI back also.

Wow really? That's very good news, I hope you are right! It sure will be interesting to see where CH plays then.

[Loh]

Wow really? That's very good news, I hope you are right! It sure will be interesting to see where CH plays then.


I'm not so sure whether this is politically or technically possible, though.

CH representing Taiwan - Will LYB or more correctly, China, allow this?
CH representing Fujian - when Fujian is not even a country represented as a member in the BWF? ;)

[pjswift]

You actually have drawn out Choon Hann's "fate", he's not going to win the All England. I am just happy if he can advance to round 2 or 3. :o
Agree. I like WCH for his guts and determination. Right now, his main concern is chalking up ranking points. He won't stand a chance this AE07 but I'll bet on him getting a shot at AE08 as long as he gets into the main draw. With the NSS and SS draw format, anything can happen nowadays.

[Shiro]

WCH is unique and one of the best players. I hope that he will put up a strong fight and do his best in AE. He has the potential to win but...it is really up to him, his skills and bits of luck...... I agree with pjswift...anything can happen.

[bic33]

what the heck is this? Kido/setiawan vs paaske/rasmussen in the first round?? crazy draws... and i don't like a QF between LD and TH.. it should finals... so much for the drama..:D

[TKG2609]

i heard that Chen Hong n Xia xuanze already retired ....

[Trang]

Yes, they are. But some players come back and play tournaments sometimes.

[yannie]

what the heck is this? Kido/setiawan vs paaske/rasmussen in the first round?? crazy draws... and i don't like a QF between LD and TH.. it should finals... so much for the drama..:D

As for INA MDs:
1) Fran/Sigit vs KKK/TBH in first round
2) Markis/Hendra vs Paaske/Rasmussen in first round
3) Rian/Eng Hian vs Cai/Fu in second round
4) Joko/Hendra vs LJJ/HJM in second round
5) Alvent/Luluk vs KKK/TBH in second round
6) Candra/Tony vs LYD/JJS in third round

And Ex-INA (SIN):
1) Hendri/Hendra vs Eriksen/Lundgaard in first round

[indra]

As for INA MDs:
1) Fran/Sigit vs KKK/TBH in first round
2) Markis/Hendra vs Paaske/Rasmussen in first round
3) Rian/Eng Hian vs Cai/Fu in second round
4) Joko/Hendra vs LJJ/HJM in second round
5) Alvent/Luluk vs KKK/TBH in second round
6) Candra/Tony vs LYD/JJS in third round

And Ex-INA (SIN):
1) Hendri/Hendra vs Eriksen/Lundgaard in first round

Nothing to be afraid of at all....even if the draw were changed like below:

Markis/hendra vs Cai/Fu in first round
Chandra/Tony vs KKK/TBH in first round
Taufik vs LD in first round

That's OK...it is the survival of the strongest:)

Ina team is ready and in very good condition and very confident that they will perform in this AE.

Taufik has been very well prepared both physically and mentally and so have the others.

[2cents]

Nothing to be afraid of at all....even if the draw were changed like below:

Markis/hendra vs Cai/Fu in first round
Chandra/Tony vs KKK/TBH in first round
Taufik vs LD in first round

That's OK...it is the survival of the strongest:)

Ina team is ready and in very good condition and very confident that they will perform in this AE.

Taufik has been very well prepared both physically and mentally and so have the others.

There is nothing about fear. And nothing about who's the best either. The final champion is the best without any doubt because he beats directly or indirectly everyone.

The question is about who's the 2nd best. For example, Taukif could be the 2nd best only after Lin Dan, but since he lost to Lin Dan in the first round or early rounds as in previous tournaments, then the final runner up might not as good as Taufik. That's what we're talking about. We always want to see the best match, the highest level competition in the final. We don't want to see a lopsided match in the final. That's the thing we may be afraid of. :rolleyes:

The other thing I'm worried about is that teammates have to fight each other in early rounds. That's bad. Players and their associations spent big money to travel abroad to win. If you want to them fight each other, they don't have to travel abroad, they can just fight at home, and only the winner goes to the tournament. By the way, the host country audience are not interested in two teammates fighting either. It also gives people suspecting fixing the match.

[pjswift]

and the new format changes the total rounds of the tournaments from 6 rounds to 8 rounds which means 32 players in the qualification rounds have to player 3 matches a day! what a joke! when Badminton IBF changes its name to WBF (World Bondage Fed), it also changes to slavery system.

Wong CH, Simon,.. and all the 32 slaves are capable to win the title also. Why not let all the players play fairly???

Agree the MSQ rounds are inhumane! I like the top 8 seed idea but why must they limit the MSQs to 4 when the MS is so competitive? Why can't they extend it to 8? Same with WS and MD.If it's a rule then they should flex it according to category size. The one rule WBF should have is that qualifiers must be subject to playing not more than TWO matches to get into the main draw. That way they have a fighting chance to even go all the way, though unlikely.Also, if there are last minute (seemingly unethical) withdrawals like what happened to WCH in KO07, the effect will be insignificant.I hope they review this for the next SS.

[hcyong]

I think it is a decision by BWF to make things consistent. Since we cannot possibly have 64-entry draws for all the other events (not enough participants), therefore I think they decided to make it more elitist, ie have 32-entry draws across the board.

The most unfair part, IMHO, is not that a qualifier has to play 3 more matches to win a tournament. If he is of that sort of quality, more of the qualifying matches should be a breeze. The most unfair part is having the qualifier to play 3 matches in a day. Now, that is inhumane. I think the qualification period should be extended to two days.

[2cents]

The new system extends the depth, the number of rounds in total from 6 rounds to 8 rounds, but allowing less players. It's like a lose-lose situation.

Playing 3 matches in a day is not only unfair between qualifier and the main draw player, but also unfair between within qualifying rounds. That's the reason Wong CH lost to Shon at Korea open, Wong CH had to play 2 very tough matches minutes before met Shon who was walked through to the 3rd round by walkovers.

I agree playing 3 matches in a day is inhumane, especially when your competitor rest all the way there. But I disagree about qualifying matches are breeze. If Taufik were in Tommy Sugiato's shoes, I don't think it's a breeze for Taufik to beat Wong CH, Best of Qiu and Poompat, Simon Santoso and Kuan BH in a row in just 1 day. Even he did, there would be no energy left for him playing Lin Dan the next morning in the first round of main draw.

[ctjcad]

..yes, in a sense i also feel it's somewhat not fair for a player to have to win 3 additional matches if s/he wants to win the whole thing. But, IMO, for why the Qualifiers need to play 3 more is probably partly because BWF look at the new scoring system, unlike the OSS, and believe it will essentially "speed up"(time) or "shortened up"(stamina for players) the matches. Thus making 3 additional matches in 1 day seem "plausible" for those Qualifiers, according to BWF's "eyes"..:p ;)

[taufik-ist]

sh1t.... indonesia players will kill each other in early rounds :(

[SmashHappy]

wow.. after seeing Sigit Budiarto at the mens double draw im quite surpised, i thought he retired? :confused: o well its good to see my favorite jump smasher back in action :D:D just too bad he couldnt play with candra wijaya :p:D;)

[2cents]

sh1t.... indonesia players will kill each other in early rounds :(

That's what I am talking about. If IBF wants indonesian kill each other, why not let them do it at indonesia home to save precious pounds £ and time?

Associations spent money, send players abroad not for killing teammates in early rounds. If they have to do it, they can do it at home.;)

[chickenpoodle]

sh1t.... indonesia players will kill each other in early rounds :(
or make it easier to some extent for one or the other depending on team orders...

[Ethan]

actually they can spar against each other at home, after looking at the draw. They can use that as a "result" of their eventual match if they are to meet against each other. Hence can save energy. But then, bad for spectators like us.

[pjswift]

I think it is a decision by BWF to make things consistent. Since we cannot possibly have 64-entry draws for all the other events (not enough participants), therefore I think they decided to make it more elitist, ie have 32-entry draws across the board.

The most unfair part, IMHO, is not that a qualifier has to play 3 more matches to win a tournament. If he is of that sort of quality, more of the qualifying matches should be a breeze. The most unfair part is having the qualifier to play 3 matches in a day. Now, that is inhumane. I think the qualification period should be extended to two days.

Agree with you and 2cents 3 matches in a day is crazy.But even if it were spread over two days, 3 matches to qualify is still one match too far.
But what should the main objective of qualifying rounds be? Shouldn't it be for both promising youngsters and returning veterans (who had to miss out because of injury or other reasons) to qualify so that they can have a shot at the title or rack up considerable ranking points? Otherwise when are they going to make the main draw? I'm referring specifically to the MS only .Because MS is so competitive,as 2cents pointed out,even the MSQ rounds may not be a breeze.( Now imagine if LD were injured and out for 6 months and had to play MSQ, even 3 matches in 1 day will hurt his legs enough to spoil his chance for a title. With TH, he'll probably hang up his racket for good!) For sure, WCH's AE07 MSQ matches will drain him to give LTS an advantage in the first round.
Making a 32-entry main draw consistent is a great idea. But the number of Qs should not be consistent because the qualifying rounds are not consistent anyway. Since the MSQ draw has more entries (maximum 32, in fact) then it makes sense to double the MSQ slots in the main draw to 8, up from 4. That way, MSQs only need to play TWO matches in one day.
(In tennis if they subject qualifiers to such a gruelling day just to qualify, I wouldn't be surprised if ATP were to raise a ruckus and warn organisers of possible lawsuits should consistent,considerable injuries occur among qualifiers over time.) That's something BWF may want to think about, even if the Badminton Players Assn(?) is useless. BWF should not come across as an indirect injury-inflicting set-up. It commands respect when its tournament rules also take care of players' interest so that the best can continue to play as long as possible with minimum injuries.

[2cents]

Look at the Austrian open just ended today. Zhu Jingging just won the title with 8 wins (3 in qualification rounds and 5 in the main draw), how ironically it is!!! The best player has to play 8 matches while there are 28 players automatically in the 4th round. Why not let everyone just play 6 rounds??? based even the lowest ranked can win the title!

That's the exact pitfall I predicted! The other pitfall I predicted is verified also. Wang Yihan should be the one of the 2 best player at Austrian open. But because of this stupid drawing system, she lost in the 1st round to her teammate Zhu Jingjing. Both Zhu and Wang are several levels higher than other players, Wang deserves a runner up, so this bad system can only verify the champion. Further more, players for Austrian open even cannot cover their expense from the prize money, why Zhu Jingjing and Wang Yihang have to play each other in early rounds aboard. Both of them came from the poorest country of the world!

[hcyong]

Look at the Austrian open just ended today. Zhu Jingging just won the title with 8 wins (3 in qualification rounds and 5 in the main draw), how ironically it is!!! The best player has to play 8 matches while there are 28 players automatically in the 4th round. Why not let everyone just play 6 rounds??? based even the lowest ranked can win the title!

That's the exact pitfall I predicted! The other pitfall I predicted is verified also. Wang Yihan should be the one of the 2 best player at Austrian open. But because of this stupid drawing system, she lost in the 1st round to her teammate Zhu Jingjing. Both Zhu and Wang are several levels higher than other players, Wang deserves a runner up, so this bad system can only verify the champion. Further more, players for Austrian open even cannot cover their expense from the prize money, why Zhu Jingjing and Wang Yihang have to play each other in early rounds aboard. Both of them came from the poorest country of the world!

To be honest, I have never heard of Zhu Jingjing before the Austrian Open. It is always easy to say things after the fact. But before the tournament started, would you be confident enough to give Zhu a main draw entry with her low rankings (or no rankings)? Wouldn't other players complain of unfairness? Giving special treatment to Chinese players?

Anyway, Austrian Open is not an SS event, and do not fall under the same rules. Austrian Open is using the same rules that badminton tournaments have been using for a long time.

It is always easy to pick on anomalities and complain about it after the fact.

[hcyong]

Agree with you and 2cents 3 matches in a day is crazy.But even if it were spread over two days, 3 matches to qualify is still one match too far.
But what should the main objective of qualifying rounds be? Shouldn't it be for both promising youngsters and returning veterans (who had to miss out because of injury or other reasons) to qualify so that they can have a shot at the title or rack up considerable ranking points? Otherwise when are they going to make the main draw? I'm referring specifically to the MS only .Because MS is so competitive,as 2cents pointed out,even the MSQ rounds may not be a breeze.( Now imagine if LD were injured and out for 6 months and had to play MSQ, even 3 matches in 1 day will hurt his legs enough to spoil his chance for a title. With TH, he'll probably hang up his racket for good!) For sure, WCH's AE07 MSQ matches will drain him to give LTS an advantage in the first round.
Making a 32-entry main draw consistent is a great idea. But the number of Qs should not be consistent because the qualifying rounds are not consistent anyway. Since the MSQ draw has more entries (maximum 32, in fact) then it makes sense to double the MSQ slots in the main draw to 8, up from 4. That way, MSQs only need to play TWO matches in one day.
(In tennis if they subject qualifiers to such a gruelling day just to qualify, I wouldn't be surprised if ATP were to raise a ruckus and warn organisers of possible lawsuits should consistent,considerable injuries occur among qualifiers over time.) That's something BWF may want to think about, even if the Badminton Players Assn(?) is useless. BWF should not come across as an indirect injury-inflicting set-up. It commands respect when its tournament rules also take care of players' interest so that the best can continue to play as long as possible with minimum injuries.

It is very arbitrary. What sort of yardstick would you use to decide whether you should have 8 or 4 qualifiers? How do you measure competitiveness? Although I agree with you that currently, it is gruelling for players who have to qualify, I also think that tournaments must have proper guidelines in black and white, and not just simply create draws based on feeling.

So far, the complaints on draws have mostly been based on emotion and feeling. I'd like to see more proposed guidelines instead. If you want to lodge a complain with BWF, at least give them an alternative solution, not just say you don't like the current system.

[hcyong]

That's what I am talking about. If IBF wants indonesian kill each other, why not let them do it at indonesia home to save precious pounds £ and time?

Associations spent money, send players abroad not for killing teammates in early rounds. If they have to do it, they can do it at home.;)

It is important to know that it is not BWF who wants Indonesians to kill one another. It is the luck of the draw that made it so.

[2cents]

To be honest, I have never heard of Zhu Jingjing before the Austrian Open. It is always easy to say things after the fact. But before the tournament started, would you be confident enough to give Zhu a main draw entry with her low rankings (or no rankings)? Wouldn't other players complain of unfairness? Giving special treatment to Chinese players?

Anyway, Austrian Open is not an SS event, and do not fall under the same rules. Austrian Open is using the same rules that badminton tournaments have been using for a long time.

It is always easy to pick on anomalities and complain about it after the fact.

You are wrong, I didn't complain it afterward, it is actually prove my prediction that the 2nd best would be killed in the 1st round. Could you just do a little bit reality check, please!

There was no doubt about it. Zhu Jingjing is the national champion of China, beating many top players in form. If you don't think she even deserve just a main draw entry in such a low level tournament, I will be very surprised. That's I have already said such a case. Even there was a Zhu Jingjing who can beat Zhang Ning and Xie Xingfan, still has no chance to play either Olympics or World Championship.

For this particular, before this tournament, I was not sure who would win, but it must be either Zhu Jingjing or Wang Yihang. Zhu Jingjing of course is much better than Wang Yihang, but it's just her first debut internationallly.

So don't assume based on unknown of yourself. I'd definitely surprised that if anyone knew Zhu Jingjing and don't think she's even in the top 32 among Austrian Open.

There are so many talented female singles in China. Most people here blindedly think Zhang Ning and Xie XF are the invincible. That's wrong. Most time, those two super stars in the world lost in early rounds of national competition. That's the reason even Wang Chen can win in the Asian games. Like Taufik, winning Asian games, does not mean Wang Chen are the best in Asian. There are at least 20 to 30 female players in China at the same level as Zhang Ning and Xie XF, or even better.

On the other hand, China's male singles do not have so many talents, the best 5 in the IBF ranking are better than others. Lin Dan is too good, and CJ, CH, BCL and CY are the only people capable to win the final. But on women singles, it is really unclear, there are at least 20 to 30 players could win.

[2cents]

Actually no proof shows Wang YH the 2nd best (she's not even the top seed either there), it is just my theory. and proves again that it's nothing about my complaining afterward knowing the results, that's an unfair accusation, it is just to show the new drawing is not even as good as the old one.

[hcyong]

Are you sure you have not mistaken Zhu Jingjing for Zhu Lin? Could be my ignorance, but I really have not heard of her before. And I'm quite surprised she could be national champion.

[2cents]

... But before the tournament started, would you be confident enough to give Zhu a main draw entry ....

I don't think put Zhu into the main draw is fair either. I have never suggested that either. Since it is her debut, he should be the lowest position. But her is the best that's also the facts, so there is no reason to have another 3 rounds qualifying matches. It is more fair to just have 64 entry draw, that's I was suggesting. How come you conclude I want her in the top 32? I only said her ability should be top 32 without any doubt. Since her ability is one of the two best (the other is Wang YH), so it is not good to have 3 rounds qualification. Sigh, I've repeted so many times, but there are still people don't understand, or don't want to understand.

The other suggestion is to keep seperate players from the same association as they did before. That's the only two suggestions or complains I made.

[hcyong]

Zhu Jingjing is not even in the world ranking list. Even if she did win the national championships and even if most of us feel she is a top-10 player, how can WBF possibly give her even a main draw direct entry, not to mention a seeding?

[2cents]

Are you sure you have not mistaken Zhu Jingjing for Zhu Lin? Could be my ignorance, but I really have not heard of her before. And I'm quite surprised she could be national champion.

I'm really disappointed :eek: . When did Zhu Lin get an national champion? The best Zhu Lin got was 3rd place in 2005 when Wang Chen gave her a walkover. But Zhu Jingjing is the newest champion. Okay?

[2cents]

Zhu Jingjing is not even in the world ranking list. Even if she did win the national championships and even if most of us feel she is a top-10 player, how can WBF possibly give her even a main draw direct entry, not to mention a seeding?

I have said many times, but you keep misunderstanding.

I have NEVER asked for "a main draw direct entry" for Zhu Jingjing. I just pointed out the ridiculous drawing. I already said Zhu Jingjing deserved lowest position in the drawing, but the drawing just chokes the best players when they begin their career. It is of course unfair to put Zhu Jingjing in the top 10 or any seedings since it is her debut!

If you cannot see it. it's fine then. :) :) :) I'm really tired. I have nothing to do with Zhu Jingjing. Who cares who she is. The only thing I care is the drawing system not good at all. Zhu Jingjing just provided a good example.

[hcyong]

I don't think put Zhu into the main draw is fair either. I have never suggested that either. Since it is her debut, he should be the lowest position. But her is the best that's also the facts, so there is no reason to have another 3 rounds qualifying matches. It is more fair to just have 64 entry draw, that's I was suggesting. How come you conclude I want her in the top 32? I only said her ability should be top 32 without any doubt. Since her ability is one of the two best (the other is Wang YH), so it is not good to have 3 rounds qualification. Sigh, I've repeted so many times, but there are still people don't understand, or don't want to understand.

The other suggestion is to keep seperate players from the same association as they did before. That's the only two suggestions or complains I made.

I agree with you on one thing. Having a 3-round qualification is not ideal, especially when all 3 rounds are played in one day.

I disagree with you on country separation rule. I agree with BWF that players should just be seeded accordingly and the rest should be up to the luck of the draw. It is an individual tournament, why should the nationality matter so much?

If you feel that 32-draw for MS is too strong (I feel that way, too), I also feel 64-draw for WS is bit too weak for top events, and very weak for Austrian International.

[hcyong]

I have said many times, but you keep misunderstanding.

I have NEVER asked for "a main draw direct entry" for Zhu Jingjing. I just pointed out the ridiculous drawing. I already said Zhu Jingjing deserved lowest position in the drawing, but the drawing just chokes the best players when they begin their career. It is of course unfair to put Zhu Jingjing in the top 10 or any seedings since it is her debut!

If you cannot see it. it's fine then. :) :) :) I'm really tired. I have nothing to do with Zhu Jingjing. Who cares who she is. The only thing I care is the drawing system not good at all. Zhu Jingjing just provided a good example.

So, basically, you agree that Zhu JJ should start at lowest position and I agree because she has no world ranking.

Your only complaint is having her to play 3 qualifying rounds, which I also agree.

Therefore, we agree on everything. Why were we arguing?

Don't just say the drawing system is not good. Make a suggestion. The current system is 32-draw with 8 seeds, 4 qualifiers and 3 rounds of qualification. Your suggestion?

[2cents]

I disagree with you on country separation rule. I agree with BWF that players should just be seeded accordingly and the rest should be up to the luck of the draw. It is an individual tournament, why should the nationality matter so much?


It was me reminding individual tournaments before. But actually it is IBF disallow that way. If it is individual tournament, why IBF disallow number 5 in the world to compete in the Olympics, and number 9 in the world in the world championships.



If you feel that 32-draw for MS is too strong (I feel that way, too), I also feel 64-draw for WS is bit too weak for top events, and very weak for Austrian International.

Don't use elusive concepts. What's your definitions for strong and weak? I think 64 draw is more fair than the 32+32 for every player. It is obvious. In 64 entry draw, everyone can win title by 6 matches, why in 32+32, some need 5, others need 8. That's unfair. If there is an uneven draw, just make the draw as balanced as possible.

[2cents]

Therefore, we agree on everything. Why were we arguing?


It was you first accusing me complaining after knowing the results:o , then I pointed out that Zhu Jingjing's case verify my 2 suggestions. :D

The main thing here is misunderstanding. You put your thinking on mine. You know nothing about Zhu Jingjing and assume me the same. That's where the misunderstanding came from.

As we discussion more, we agree on the pitfalls of IBF's side. That shows we have a very good discussion, and very fruitful. :)

[2cents]

Don't just say the drawing system is not good. Make a suggestion. The current system is 32-draw with 8 seeds, 4 qualifiers and 3 rounds of qualification. Your suggestion?

That's a perfect question.

My solution is: 64 draw with 32 seeds. Only 1 round of qualification. The number of qualifiers depends on how many players. If players # is less than 64 by N, then top N seeds will have a bye in the first round. If the # is more than 64 by N but less than 128, then there will be N qualifiers.

My solution has at least 4 advantages:
1) more balanced,
--> no Lindan vs Taufik in the first round
--> no Wong Choong Han, Sugiato, Qiu, Poompat, Simon Santoso, Kuan BH fighting for just one spot in the main draw. Really ridiculous!!!
2) more fair --> all the players have to play the same number of rounds
3) also reduced the total rounds from 8 to 7
4) increased player number from 52 to 128 <-- this is the biggest advantage.

I didn't see any disadvantages at all. Please use your concept of "strong" and "weak" to see my solution is more strong or more weak, I don't know your definitions.

[2cents]

actually you already said 32-draw is too strong (and asume I did the same, actually I don't know your definition and probably disagree with you), and 64 draw is too weak.

I really don't know your confusing statments. How come adding more players make the draw too weak? And playing more matches to make the draw too weak?

If you think Lindan - Taufik in the 1st round and unknown vs unknown in another quaterfinal is strong, and you also prefer strong, then you had better let the number 1 seed playing number 2 seed in the first round, then the winner play the winner between number 3 seed and number 4 seed in the scond round, ... your strongest draw goes:

Number 1 -|____
number 2 -|

number 3 -|____
number 4 _|

unknown -|_____
unknown -|

unknown -|_____
unknown -|

So the most balanced draw in your eyes is the weakest :eek: :eek: :eek:

[kimpe_bultang]

Hate to break this ppl, but Taufik MAY not be coming to AE this yr.. Some conflicts with the PBSI's disciplinary again.. But, well, this time wasn't his fault.. You see, Markis K, Hendra S and Flandy L joined a tournament on theiir own will.. Unfortunately, them joining the tournament made them missed a tournament that the PBSI asked them to join.. So, Taufik wasn't happy about PBSI's judgement.. Those 3 plyrs are banned to join Swiss Open 2007, when the next cmg tounament is AE.. Taufik said that if they are still joining AE, he doesn't want to go for AE..

Another conflict was over Mr Sigit Pamungkas, the coach of Pb Jayaraya, a former plyr too. Markis K wanted a non-chinese coach in PBSI, and when a coach wanted to quit, he asked Mr Sigit to come and coach.. But, the prblm is, he didn't hv the permission and the other coaches wr unaware of him allowed to coach in PBSI.. This made a lot of ppl frm the PBSI, including plyrs, esp Taufik H, hated Sigit Pamungkas..


Anyone can clarify this?? Ko Saugusli(Ko Yadi), he can give us more info in this.. ^^

[ctjcad]

thx, btw, for the news, kimpe_bultang;)..hmm, with the AE coming up in abt a week and now this??..No Taufik, Markis, Hendra & Flandy??..Wow, where did you hear abt this??..Hmm, from what you've described, apparently this sounds like the same thing that happened during 2005 when PBSI disciplined Markis & Hendra and didn't allow them to come to the WC, eventhough they qualified. Both Markis & Hendra wanted to go, even planned to spend their own monies out of their own pockets, but they still weren't allowed.
But, wow, what a surprising news, if this is actually true:rolleyes:...Perhaps someone shall find & confirm abt this report in other INA-news based portals..:confused: :rolleyes: :p

[taufik-ist]

thx, btw, for the news kimpe_bultang;)..hmm, with the AE coming up in abt a week and now this??..No Taufik, Markis, Hendra & Flandy..Wow, where did you hear abt this??..Hmm, from what you've described, apparently this sounds like the same thing that happened during 2005 when PBSI disciplined Markis & Hendra and didn't allow them to come to the WC, eventhough they qualified. Both Markis & Hendra wanted to go, even planned to spend their own monies out of their own pockets, but they still weren't allowed.
But, wow, what a surprising news, if this is actually true:rolleyes:...Perhaps someone shall find & confirm abt this report in other INA-news based portal..:confused: :rolleyes: :p

hmmmmm.... i hope that's not true, i didn't find that such news in my today newspaper (KOMPAS,BOLA)

PBSI must give a freedom to the players to play in a tournament which PBSI doesn't plan for them

hm.... indra should run for PBSI chairman election this year :D
we must do a 'revolution' in PBSI to save indonesia badminton

[Baderz_Jas]

I think Lin Dan will most likely meet Taufik in QF :eek: and it will be the first time I watch LD vs TH live in the NIA :eek: CAN'T WAIT :D :p

[yannie]

Hate to break this ppl, but Taufik MAY not be coming to AE this yr.. Some conflicts with the PBSI's disciplinary again.. But, well, this time wasn't his fault.. You see, Markis K, Hendra S and Flandy L joined a tournament on theiir own will.. Unfortunately, them joining the tournament made them missed a tournament that the PBSI asked them to join.. So, Taufik wasn't happy about PBSI's judgement.. Those 3 plyrs are banned to join Swiss Open 2007, when the next cmg tounament is AE.. Taufik said that if they are still joining AE, he doesn't want to go for AE..


Please don't say this is true. Any further information? Kinda shocked..

[hcyong]

It was me reminding individual tournaments before. But actually it is IBF disallow that way. If it is individual tournament, why IBF disallow number 5 in the world to compete in the Olympics, and number 9 in the world in the world championships.


I agree with BWF about discarding the country separation rule because an individual tournament is for individuals. So, I applaud this recent move.

In the same vein, I also think BWF should discard the country limitation rule for tournaments in its control (for Olympics, there is no choice but to follow Olympic guidelines).

However, because the country-limitation rule still exists does not mean that we should go back and implement the country-separation rule. It's like going back to square one after moving one step forward.



Don't use elusive concepts. What's your definitions for strong and weak? I think 64 draw is more fair than the 32+32 for every player. It is obvious. In 64 entry draw, everyone can win title by 6 matches, why in 32+32, some need 5, others need 8. That's unfair. If there is an uneven draw, just make the draw as balanced as possible.

That's why I quantify my statements by using the phrase "I feel" because it is very hard to be "non-elusive". Are you suggesting doing away with the qualifying rounds? The reason it's there is to do away with as much meaningless first-round thrashings as possible, so there is justification.

"Uneven" and "balanced" are also very hard to quantify. So much of our arguments are based on feeling rather than hard numbers.

[phaarix]

Oh man I won't be happy if that's true, and TH doesn't go... Seriously TH is a very important part of this years AE... and he's in my Badminton Manager team!!

[hcyong]

actually you already said 32-draw is too strong (and asume I did the same, actually I don't know your definition and probably disagree with you), and 64 draw is too weak.

I really don't know your confusing statments. How come adding more players make the draw too weak? And playing more matches to make the draw too weak?

If you think Lindan - Taufik in the 1st round and unknown vs unknown in another quaterfinal is strong, and you also prefer strong, then you had better let the number 1 seed playing number 2 seed in the first round, then the winner play the winner between number 3 seed and number 4 seed in the scond round, ... your strongest draw goes:

Number 1 -|____
number 2 -|

number 3 -|____
number 4 _|

unknown -|_____
unknown -|

unknown -|_____
unknown -|

So the most balanced draw in your eyes is the weakest :eek: :eek: :eek:

I said that I feel 32-draw is too strong for men's singles, and 64-draw is too weak for women's singles.

When I say strong, I mean that the field is very competitive right from the start, and even the qualifying rounds can be tough. When I say weak, I mean that a lot of the first round matches are meaningless, and also there will be a lot of byes.

For Austrian International, 64-draw for women's singles (the example you highlighted where Zhu Jingjing won) would have been too weak. So, I think the draw is as fair as it can be.

I think Lin Dan v Taufik in the first round is due to
1) Taufik's low ranking compared to his ability (mostly Taufik's own doing) which cause him to be unseeded
2) luck of draw

I don't think Lin v Taufik in the first round is particularly attractive, but what can you do? Can you seed him above the higher ranked players? That would be unfair to others. You can of course argue that if there are 16 seeds instead of 8, then Taufik would be seeded. But Taufik could also be ranked lower than 20 and could still meet Lin in the first round. If then, should we have 32 seeds? BWF must set the rule and stick with it. If some anomalies happen, they cannot bend the rules to accomodate a player.

[hcyong]

That's a perfect question.

My solution is: 64 draw with 32 seeds. Only 1 round of qualification. The number of qualifiers depends on how many players. If players # is less than 64 by N, then top N seeds will have a bye in the first round. If the # is more than 64 by N but less than 128, then there will be N qualifiers.


32 seeds for 64 draw is too many. More should be left to chance. The most for 64 draw should be 16 seeds.

For 127 entries, are you suggesting 63 qualifiers?

Is this suggestion for men's singles only or across the board? As per current situation, I think 64-draw will only work well for MS, and possibly WS sometimes.



My solution has at least 4 advantages:
1) more balanced,
--> no Lindan vs Taufik in the first round
--> no Wong Choong Han, Sugiato, Qiu, Poompat, Simon Santoso, Kuan BH fighting for just one spot in the main draw. Really ridiculous!!!
2) more fair --> all the players have to play the same number of rounds
3) also reduced the total rounds from 8 to 7
4) increased player number from 52 to 128 <-- this is the biggest advantage.

I didn't see any disadvantages at all. Please use your concept of "strong" and "weak" to see my solution is more strong or more weak, I don't know your definitions.

If Taufik is outside top 32 ranking (which he was at a certain stage because he was nitpicking on tournaments), he would still be unseeded and could still face Lin Dan in the first round.

Agree with you that for men's singles, 32-draw is too tough for some qualifiers, but for other events, 64-draw (your suggestion) becomes too weak.

If the number of players/pairs is 128, I would be totally uninterested in the first two rounds of most events.

[2cents]

...
That's why I quantify my statements by using the phrase "I feel" because it is very hard to be "non-elusive". Are you suggesting doing away with the qualifying rounds? The reason it's there is to do away with as much meaningless first-round thrashings as possible, so there is justification.

"Uneven" and "balanced" are also very hard to quantify. So much of our arguments are based on feeling rather than hard numbers.

I have said very clear that my terms are very well defined, not elusive at all. :)

One term I used was "fair" which means the number of rounds different players have to play.

The other is "balanced" or "even" which is the distribution of the current IBF ranked players in different halves, quarters, 1/8 and 1/16. Taufik met Lindan in the first round of Malaysia open is uneven or unbalanced draw not only because Taufik is a good player, but because he was ranked 11th in the world that time.

My terms can be well quantified also. You can the number of rounds to measure "fair", and the sum of the deviation for each player in the draw from their respective ranking position.

You still use "strong" and "weak" without definition. You said it's you feel. So we don't know what are you going to feel for any particular case. You also assume what I feel the same :rolleyes: Actually I feel different from what you feel.

All the players in 32 entry draw are all in the 64-entry draw. 64 entry draw just includes more players, which make you feel weak. So I guess your feeling of strong is:

1) strong if there are less players, I disagree. That might make you think the Asian game is the strongest tournaments in the world because very few players can compete there. :eek:

2) strong if the draw is unbalanced, I disagree.

3) strong if you compare just the 1st round. In this case, you may make a little bit sense. But you have to compare the 1st round of 32-entry with the 2nd round of the 64-entry, then you will not feel 64-entry draw weak any more. :D

According to your feeling for strong, I suggest you the strongest tournament for the World championship: (just 2 players, yeah, so strong)

Lee CW (asian champ) vs Peter Gade (europe champ)

then this world championship will be the strongest tournament ever according to your feeling. Am I right got your feeling?

[cheeyf]

i think i still prefer d 64-entry draw
more players will have chance to play in main draw so wont be so unfair especially to oldcomers making a comeback
they may be still good but because of their low ranking they have to play in qualifying?
a bit unfair while d top 28 only needs to work less

[hcyong]

One term I used was "fair" which means the number of rounds different players have to play.

The other is "balanced" or "even" which is the distribution of the current IBF ranked players in different halves, quarters, 1/8 and 1/16. Taufik met Lindan in the first round of Malaysia open is uneven or unbalanced draw not only because Taufik is a good player, but because he was ranked 11th in the world that time.

My terms can be well quantified also. You can the number of rounds to measure "fair", and the sum of the deviation for each player in the draw from their respective ranking position.


To your definition, to be exactly fair (which means every player plays exactly the same number of rounds, or one less), there should not be any qualifying rounds?

And, to be totally balanced, in a 32-draw, players should be seeded all the way until 32? So, in the first round, 1 vs 32, 2 vs 31 etc. etc.? We can do away with draws then.

No doubt your terms of fair and balanced are well-defined, but no qualifying rounds and seed throughout the draw; is that what we want?



You still use "strong" and "weak" without definition. You said it's you feel. So we don't know what are you going to feel for any particular case. You also assume what I feel the same :rolleyes: Actually I feel different from what you feel.


Well, it is hard to quantify, but perhaps a guideline can be used. For instance, if at least 50% of the matches in one particular round lasted less than 15 mins (or loser's total points less than 15 or whatever yardstick which you prefer), then that round can be considered weak. The higher the % the weaker.

In the current environment, in MS, those outside the top 30 are able to mount a challenge to those inside, therefore according to my definitions above, the first round of a 64-draw (if the participation is high) may be considered slightly strong. So, interest in that round will likely be ok. 32-draw would be too strong, with a high proportion of the first round matches coming very close. In this case, it would be better to have 64 in the main draw.

But the same cannot be said of the women's singles. The top 30 women will likely thrash the bottom 30 in more than 50% of the matches, therefore the first found 64-draw for women's singles may be considered weak. In this case, better to have 32 in the main draw, with qualification rounds to find the best among the rest.

However, this changes with time. Perhaps in future, the depth of quality women's players will increase.



All the players in 32 entry draw are all in the 64-entry draw. 64 entry draw just includes more players, which make you feel weak. So I guess your feeling of strong is:

1) strong if there are less players, I disagree. That might make you think the Asian game is the strongest tournaments in the world because very few players can compete there. :eek:

2) strong if the draw is unbalanced, I disagree.

3) strong if you compare just the 1st round. In this case, you may make a little bit sense. But you have to compare the 1st round of 32-entry with the 2nd round of the 64-entry, then you will not feel 64-entry draw weak any more. :D


3 is correct. First round of 64-entry draw for WS, WD, MD and XD would likely be weak.



According to your feeling for strong, I suggest you the strongest tournament for the World championship: (just 2 players, yeah, so strong)

Lee CW (asian champ) vs Peter Gade (europe champ)

then this world championship will be the strongest tournament ever according to your feeling. Am I right got your feeling?

That would be too strong, which is just as bad as too weak. I also agree with you that currently 32-draw in MS is too strong, and a 64-draw would be more ideal. (However, 64-draw for other events would be too weak. I still disagree with you that the WS draw in Austrian International where Zhu JJ won was unfair.)

But BWF may have justifications to keep everything consistent. Maybe for TV or for more audiences etc.

[ctjcad]

....will have to be re-shuffled, once again, with the news that Taufik is withdrawing himself right out of the AE(and no, it's not because he's injured or anything)..:p ..Hmm, eventhough there's still time for him to change his mind(maybe Flandy can talk him out of it) and come as the tourney hasn't started yet..:p:rolleyes:..

[indra]

....will have to be re-shuffled once again with the news that Taufik is withdrawing himself right out of the AE(and no, it's not because he's injured or anything)..:p ..Hmm, eventhough there's still time for him to change his mind(maybe Flandy can talk him out of it) and come as the tourney hasn't started yet..:p:rolleyes:..

Taufik will change his mind....He will go....!!!:)

[Baderz_Jas]

I'm suprised TH pulled out, or will he :rolleyes:
He never won the AE before :eek: ;)

[kimpe_bultang]

Well, i think it is true, the case I mean... I heard it frm my coach, he went to INA for some coach trng thing.. And he knows everything, so better ask him.. Saugusli... "Ko yadi, ksh taw daah tuuh!! Aku kan ga taw nama2nya.. Heheheh!!"

[kimpe_bultang]

hmmmmm.... i hope that's not true, i didn't find that such news in my today newspaper (KOMPAS,BOLA)

PBSI must give a freedom to the players to play in a tournament which PBSI doesn't plan for them

Well, if that's the situation, it's hard.. Bcs, by going to that tournament they want, they missed the tournament PBSI PLANNED for them.. That is why they are punished!! And, well, not all of them are not there.. Either TH goes, or Flandy, Markis and Hendra do.. Maybe, and I do hope, that Taufik cools down, ignore them, and just go to AE.. :D :)

[Dreamzz]

Well, if that's the situation, it's hard.. Bcs, by going to that tournament they want, they missed the tournament PBSI PLANNED for them.. That is why they are punished!! And, well, not all of them are not there.. Either TH goes, or Flandy, Markis and Hendra do.. Maybe, and I do hope, that Taufik cools down, ignore them, and just go to AE.. :D :)

that just wouldn't be the taufik we know and love ...
:D

[Footwork]

New round here....!!
I read on the Badminton England website that Nathan and Gail could face Gao Ling and her new mixed partner in the quarter finals. Should this not be the final, as it's nearly a repeat of last year's?! What does everyone think?

[Loopy]

Robertson and Emms aren't playing that well this year....
No reason why it should be a final...

[alfa2]

and the new format changes the total rounds of the tournaments from 6 rounds to 8 rounds which means 32 players in the qualification rounds have to player 3 matches a day! what a joke! when Badminton IBF changes its name to WBF (World Bondage Fed), it also changes to slavery system.

Wong CH, Simon,.. and all the 32 slaves are capable to win the title also. Why not let all the players play fairly???

B O N D A G E ???!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

kuakuakuakuakuakua!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[alfa2]

Not mention the Olympic which even excludes players in the top 5, that's the reason Chen Hong stop playing.

can you pls explain more on that topic, 2cents? why to exclude top 5 players from Olympic? thanks.

[Chu Liuxiang]

Further more, players for Austrian open even cannot cover their expense from the prize money, why Zhu Jingjing and Wang Yihang have to play each other in early rounds aboard. Both of them came from the poorest country of the world!

The People's Republic of China is the poorest country of the world ????? :confused: Where did you get this information ?

[yannie]

LOL. FYI, Chinese team is so rich. When my friend was helping them to get money in a bank with a traveller cheque during Austrian International, they withdrew 20.000€ at once.

[Loh]

The People's Republic of China is the poorest country of the world ????? :confused: Where did you get this information ?

Maybe he refers to badminton countries only, but still the PRC must certainly have overhauled quite a number of developing countries with its impressive economic growth rates during the past decade. At the rate it is going, it will not be a surprise if more countries will lagged behind the PRC in income per capita terms going forward.

[alfa2]

i think i still prefer d 64-entry draw
more players will have chance to play in main draw so wont be so unfair especially to oldcomers making a comeback
they may be still good but because of their low ranking they have to play in qualifying?
a bit unfair while d top 28 only needs to work less

yeah, it's a bit abusive..... "strong or weak", "32 or 64 or 512" i hope AE wil b another memorable tournaments for the msians supporters.:D:D:D:D:D

[Chu Liuxiang]

Maybe he refers to badminton countries only, but still the PRC must certainly have overhauled quite a number of developing countries with its impressive economic growth rates during the past decade. At the rate it is going, it will not be a surprise if more countries will lagged behind the PRC in income per capita terms going forward.
Even if he refers to badminton countries only, PRC is still not the poorest country. We can refer to the following site : https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html ;
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf .

[alfa2]

hcyong and 2cents.....i think everyone here can understands perfectly what both of u guys are explaining over here, both of you arent arguing over the exact same issue:

[Hcyong: arguing about the '"strong/weak" of the draws; which i think the more appropriate word should be "the level of competitiveness" of the draw.]

[2cents: on the other hand was arguing about the fairness of the overall new draw system used by BWF which is very tiresome]

Both of you made sense. Just that both of u dont want to understand each other......:p:p:p:p

It's like arguing over an object but on different issues.

Mr.A : Durian is very delicious.
Mr.B : Durian is more expensive than banana.

I hope im able to provide a clearer image for the both of u as i noe tat you all are great supporters of BC.

[jamesd20]

can you pls explain more on that topic, 2cents? why to exclude top 5 players from Olympic? thanks.

Olympic Rules allow only a maximum of Three players from each country, and even then subject to the country having players highly ranked in world terms

Thus if China for example Have 3+ players in the top 16 (as they did in 2004)even then they can still only choose three players. Thus Even if a player is World No. 1 his country could decide not to take him. (Eg. XXZ was elgible for OG2004 but LYB decide not to take him.

[2cents]

can you pls explain more on that topic, 2cents? why to exclude top 5 players from Olympic? thanks.

I meant even the top 4 players could be excluded, not to mean exclude all top 5 players.

Because of the quota limitation, even all top 5 ranked players are CHN, they can only send 3 out of 5, which depends on their managers. So even the 1st ranked player could be excluded.

A perfect example is the Asian Games last year which is similar to Olympics. Chen Hong and Chen Jin ranked 2nd and 4th in the world, but they were still excluded from the Asian individual events.

Hope this help to explain what I meant.

[2cents]

The People's Republic of China is the poorest country of the world ????? :confused: Where did you get this information ?


LOL. FYI, Chinese team is so rich. When my friend was helping them to get money in a bank with a traveller cheque during Austrian International, they withdrew 20.000€ at once.

Well, you view the national wealth from one person's bank check. I view it from its national statistics data of average personal income. China is still one of the poorest country in the world. Chinese are still the cheapest labors in the world, what's the reason why all the company moved their assembly lines to China.

China may not THE poorest, but it is one of the poorest, according to average income. If we compare the same skilled workers working all over the world, China may be THE cheapest labor in the world, that's the reason we see so many Chinese labors even in the very poor African countries.

But you cannot draw conclusion from me that Lin Dan has to be poorer than Pete Gade who's from the one of the most wealth country in the world.

[2cents]

Even if he refers to badminton countries only, PRC is still not the poorest country. We can refer to the following site : https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html ;
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf .

I fully understood what you mean. But I have to remind you that those data are corrected by atlas methods to reflect the purchasing power parity. That's not the exact money people get.

If mining more details, we will find for the workers at the same skilled level, China is the least paid place to work. That's the reason China economy's booming. Nevertheless, Chinese personal income is still among the poorest,

That's a bigger topic than badminton, let's back to the badminton issues. :D

[2cents]

hcyong and 2cents.....i think everyone here can understands perfectly what both of u guys are explaining over here, both of you arent arguing over the exact same issue:

[Hcyong: arguing about the '"strong/weak" of the draws; which i think the more appropriate word should be "the level of competitiveness" of the draw.]

[2cents: on the other hand was arguing about the fairness of the overall new draw system used by BWF which is very tiresome]

Both of you made sense. Just that both of u dont want to understand each other......:p:p:p:p

It's like arguing over an object but on different issues.

Mr.A : Durian is very delicious.
Mr.B : Durian is more expensive than banana.

I hope im able to provide a clearer image for the both of u as i noe tat you all are great supporters of BC.

My terms (fair and balanced,...) are all well defined and even measurable. But Hcyong's terms (strong and weak) are very elusive, actually it was me to make his terms more senses by digging out all the possible meaning. There is no comparison between his terms with my terms.

[alfa2]

I meant even the top 4 players could be excluded, not to mean exclude all top 5 players.

Because of the quota limitation, even all top 5 ranked players are CHN, they can only send 3 out of 5, which depends on their managers. So even the 1st ranked player could be excluded.

A perfect example is the Asian Games last year which is similar to Olympics. Chen Hong and Chen Jin ranked 2nd and 4th in the world, but they were still excluded from the Asian individual events.

Hope this help to explain what I meant.

got it! thx! :p

[2cents]

Olympic Rules allow only a maximum of Three players from each country, and even then subject to the country having players highly ranked in world terms

Thus if China for example Have 3+ players in the top 16 (as they did in 2004)even then they can still only choose three players. Thus Even if a player is World No. 1 his country could decide not to take him. (Eg. XXZ was elgible for OG2004 but LYB decide not to take him.

You are right. Now, even China has 5 (as currently) in the top 16, but if they have only 2 in the top 4, they can only have 2 players in the Olympics. Which means even the world number 1 can be legally blocked to play Olympics.

[alfa2]

My terms (fair and balanced,...) are all well defined and even measurable. But Hcyong's terms (strong and weak) are very elusive, actually it was me to make his terms more senses by digging out all the possible meaning. There is no comparison between his terms with my terms.

2cents, you are right in some sense, your terms are well defined and even measurable. but my fren, not all things can be measured with a ruler, for an example, lets go back to my durian topic.:D:D:D:D:D

Mr.A : Durian is very delicious. (It's very hard to measure taste, it's quite elusive, like the "level of competitiveness of in the draw of Super Series" or what Hcyong suggested "strong/weak")

Mr.B : Durian is more expensive than banana. (Very measurable in dollar, like all your well defined terms) :p:p

[2cents]

Even if he refers to badminton countries only, PRC is still not the poorest country. We can refer to the following site : https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html ;
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf .

In badminton countries, Indonesia is another one of the poorest, I've mentioned that before. I even said the expenses for new comers beginning from lower tournaments will hurt Indonesia much more than the Chinese new stars.

Badminton is an interesting sports. Unlike most other sports, badminton power houses are either the wealthiest countries, like Denmark, or the poorest countries, like Indonesia.

[Dreamzz]

Badminton is an interesting sports. Unlike most other sports, badminton power houses are either the wealthiest countries, like Denmark, or the poorest countries, like Indonesia.

or middle income like malaysia, or upper middle like korea.
so it basically covers all levels of wealth!

[2cents]

2cents, you are right in some sense, your terms are well defined and even measurable. but my fren, not all things can be measured with a ruler, for an example, lets go back to my durian topic.:D:D:D:D:D

Mr.A : Durian is very delicious. (It's very hard to measure taste, it's quite elusive, like the "level of competitiveness of in the draw of Super Series" or what Hcyong suggested "strong/weak")

Mr.B : Durian is more expensive than banana. (Very measurable in dollar, like all your well defined terms) :p:p

Your example is very interesting and makes sense. Actually it is a perfect example. Thanks.

My point: "Durian is more expensive than banana" is a fact, can be verified by price check. But Hcyong's point "Durian is very delicious" is arguable, because some people may not think it's delicious at all. I, personally, feel it smells very bad. ;)

Thanks for your good example.

[2cents]

or middle income like malaysia, or upper middle like korea.
so it basically covers all levels of wealth!

you are right. thanks :D

[alfa2]

or middle income like malaysia, or upper middle like korea.
so it basically covers all levels of wealth!

yep....malaysia, where do we stand??

[alfa2]

Your example is very interesting and makes sense. Actually it is a perfect example. Thanks.

My point: "Durian is more expensive than banana" is a fact, can be verified by price check. But Hcyong's point "Durian is very delicious" is arguable, because some people may not think it's delicious at all. I, personally, feel it smells very bad. ;)

Thanks for your good example.

yeah, i hate durian too......but to alot of ppl in MAS (ppl like my granny), they would say it's kinda stupid not to love durian, coz to them it's very tasty and delicious. Are we in a Fruit Selling Forum by the way??? :D:D:D:D

[ctjcad]

That's a bigger topic than badminton, let's back to the badminton issues.

yeah, i hate durian too......but to alot of ppl in MAS (ppl like my granny), they would say it's kinda stupid not to love durian, coz to them it's very tasty and delicious. Are we in a Fruit Selling Forum by the way??? :D:D:D:D
...and yes let's get back to discussing the topic at hand...as we don't want this thread to veer off topic..:p
Btw, i LOVE durians..hehe:p :D ;)

[Chu Liuxiang]

I fully understood what you mean. But I have to remind you that those data are corrected by atlas methods to reflect the purchasing power parity. That's not the exact money people get.

If mining more details, we will find for the workers at the same skilled level, China is the least paid place to work. That's the reason China economy's booming. Nevertheless, Chinese personal income is still among the poorest,

That's a bigger topic than badminton, let's back to the badminton issues. :D

I don't really agree with all your views but I would not want to continue this topic in this forum anymore because it has nothing to do with badminton at all and as you said, it is a bigger topic than badminton. I rather discuss with you on the chances of LD, CJ, PG, LCW to grab AE titles.:D

[alfa2]

In badminton countries, Indonesia is another one of the poorest, I've mentioned that before. I even said the expenses for new comers beginning from lower tournaments will hurt Indonesia much more than the Chinese new stars.

Badminton is an interesting sports. Unlike most other sports, badminton power houses are either the wealthiest countries, like Denmark, or the poorest countries, like Indonesia.

yeah, indonesia had so many talented guys from time to time, it will b such a tragedy in the badminton arena if the expenses can cause the future world champions frm Indonesia of not becoming what they potentially could have become. Imagine the badminton history without rexy/ricky, hariyanto arbi, Taufik Hidayat......:crying::crying::crying::crying::cryi ng:

[kimpe_bultang]

:DHey, guys, just some info on why Taufik doesn't want to go to AE.. And, hahaha, I'll try to translate it.. But, its very2 long.. But, actually, in short I've told you all before, this is with all the details.. :D


-''Kecewa sih kecewa. Sebenarnya All England adalah salah satu target saya tahun ini. Namun, demi kebaikan organisasi saya rela mundur. Saya protes kan semua demi perbaikan PBSI,'' tegas Taufik Hidayat.

Di sebuah kafe di kawasan Senayan, Rabu (28/2) malam, Taufik ditemani sang istri, Ami Gumelar, mengungkapkan segenap isi hatinya. Apa yang dia lakukan itu semata-mata demi kemajuan prestasi olahraga bulutangkis nasional. ''Kalau saya bicara vokal tidak lain karena teman-teman tidak ada yang berani bicara kalau sudah di depan pengurus,'' tuturnya.

''Saya tidak mungkin menghancurkan bulutangkis Indonesia. Justru saya ingin ada perbaikan. Tak hanya pemain yang dituntut prestasi, tetapi pengurus pun harus ada perbaikan,'' sebut pemain berusia 25 tahun ini.

Taufik mengaku tidak menaruh dendam terhadap rekan-rekan yang mendapat skorsing dari PBSI lantaran tindakan nekat bertanding ke Papua, Desember silam. Yang dia tuntut hanya satu: pengurus bersikap jujur dan terbuka kepada pemain.

Pasalnya, sebelum turun SK skorsing yang menyatakan tujuh pemain tak jadi dikirim ke Swiss Super Series, dia mendapat bocoran bahwa SK yang sudah ditandatangani Ketua Umum PBSI, Sutiyoso, menyatakan bahwa Luluk Hadiyanto, Alven Yulianto, Flandy Limpele, Markis Kido, Rendra Wijaya, awalnya tidak dikirim ke All England, sedangkan Yoga Ukikasah dan Yonathan Suryatama batal dikirim ke Jerman Terbuka.

Namun, keputusan ini berubah. ''Saya tahu ternyata untuk turnamen ke Swiss PBSI malah belum mendaftarkan pemainnya. Jadi, di sini saya lihat tidak ada keterbukaan dan kejujuran pengurus,'' kata Taufik.

Dengan begitu, lanjutnya, pengurus rupanya berprinsip cuci tangan. ''Kesannya lebih baik saya sendiri yang gagal bertanding ke All England dibanding banyak pemain yang gagal berlaga ke Swiss karena belum didaftarkan pengurus,'' ungkapnya.

Aturan Ditegakkan

Apa yang dia tuntut tidak lain agar aturan di PBSI ditegakkan. Kalau pemain bersalah, silakan beri sanksi. Begitu pula kalau pengurus berbuat kesalahan harus menerima hukuman.

Sebagai contoh, ketika pelatih Hendrawan sakit, Marlev Mainaky gagal mendampingi pemain tunggal putri ke Malaysia Super Series karena SK belum ditandatangani. Sementara itu, mengapa belum ada SK, Sigit Pamungkas sudah bisa menangani pemain ganda putra? Di sini terlihat bahwa PBSI tidak memiliki aturan yang baku.

''Sebenarnya saya sudah capai melihat organisasi PBSI. Saya tak menyalahkan ketua umum, tetapi bawahannya yang tidak bisa bekerja dengan baik. Aturan dibuat seenak-enaknya. Masak SK bisa dibikin seenak sendiri,'' tegasnya.

''Kalau organisasi begini terus, tidak pernah konsisten, saya yakin bulutangkis Indonesia tidak akan maju,'' tegasnya.

Sebagai insan bulutangkis, Taufik dari hati yang paling dalam pun sebenarnya ingin prestasi Indonesia meningkat. Dia mengharapkan PBSI mampu membuat keputusan yang cepat, termasuk dalam pengiriman pemain ke turnamen di luar negeri. Selama ini, diibaratkan kalau belum naik dan duduk di kursi pesawat, pengiriman pemain serba-tidak jelas.

''Kalau yang dekat-dekat saja tidak bisa membuat keputusan, bagaimana lagi pengurus membuat program prestasi pemain dalam satu tahun ke depan?'' tutur Taufik.

''Sekali lagi, saya ingin bulutangkis kita maju dan tidak ingin menghancurkan PBSI!'' (Broto Happy W./bolanews.com)-

[kimpe_bultang]

[quote=kimpe_bultang]Hate to break this ppl, but Taufik MAY not be coming to AE this yr.. Some conflicts with the PBSI's disciplinary again.. But, well, this time wasn't his fault.. You see, Markis K, Hendra S and Flandy L joined a tournament on theiir own will...quote]

Sorry, no Hendra S.. Others would be Rendra Wijaya, Yoga Ukikasah, Yonathan Suryatma, Luluk Hadiyanto, Alvent Yulianto... Yeap..

[ctjcad]

:DHey, guys, just some info on why Taufik doesn't want to go to AE.. And, hahaha, I'll try to translate it.. But, its very2 long.. But, actually, in short I've told you all before, this is with all the details.. :D
..kimpe_bultang, thanks for sharing & looking fw to your translation. If not, perhaps other INAn BCF members can help in(ie. indra, babonimut, DoublesPlayer, Krisna or others)-thanks in advance!;):cool:

From what i've just read quickly, it looks like Taufik is again, putting the "blame" on PBSI. It's also quite ironic when he said(in the 2nd half of the article) that he wants PBSI to confirm in advance players who will go to tournaments overseas. Thing is, isn't he on the list and have gotten his airplane tickets/accommodation booked for the AE?? What is he worried abt?? What is he waiting for?? I really don't understand what is he trying to accomplish by protesting and not going to the AE?? Further, what's his business anyway, in trying to be concerned abt the well being of the other players?? Can't he just behave like any other Pelatnas players and follow order??..Maybe i need to go back and re-read the whole article again and try to get a much clearer picture of what is he trying to say or what his point is...:confused: :p
Boy, this is really turning into something...:rolleyes: :p :( :o

[alfa2]

..kimpe_bultang, thanks for sharing & looking fw to your translation. If not, perhaps other INAn BCF members can help in(ie. indra, babonimut, DoublesPlayer, Krisna or others)-thanks in advance!;):cool:

From what i've just read quickly, it looks like Taufik is again, putting the "blame" on PBSI. It's also quite ironic when he said(in the 2nd half of the article) that he wants PBSI to confirm in advance players who will go to tournaments overseas. Thing is, isn't he on the list and have gotten his airplane tickets/accommodation booked for the AE?? What is he worried abt?? What is he waiting for?? I really don't understand what is he trying to accomplish by protesting and not going to the AE?? Further, what's his business anyway, in trying to be concerned abt the well being of the other players?? Can't he just behave like any other Pelatnas players and follow order??..Maybe i need to go back and re-read the whole article again and try to get a much clearer picture of what is he trying to say or what his point is...:confused: :p
Boy, this is really turning into something...:rolleyes: :p :( :o

yep, exactly. I mean play his own part 1st, make sure that he himself is well disciplined before wanting to correct other players or ppl in the organisation. Boy, HE is turning into something.....:confused::confused::confused:

[alfa2]

..kimpe_bultang, thanks for sharing & looking fw to your translation. If not, perhaps other INAn BCF members can help in(ie. indra, babonimut, DoublesPlayer, Krisna or others)-thanks in advance!;):cool:

From what i've just read quickly, it looks like Taufik is again, putting the "blame" on PBSI. It's also quite ironic when he said(in the 2nd half of the article) that he wants PBSI to confirm in advance players who will go to tournaments overseas. Thing is, isn't he on the list and have gotten his airplane tickets/accommodation booked for the AE?? What is he worried abt?? What is he waiting for?? I really don't understand what is he trying to accomplish by protesting and not going to the AE?? Further, what's his business anyway, in trying to be concerned abt the well being of the other players?? Can't he just behave like any other Pelatnas players and follow order??..Maybe i need to go back and re-read the whole article again and try to get a much clearer picture of what is he trying to say or what his point is...:confused: :p
Boy, this is really turning into something...:rolleyes: :p :( :o

Make sure himself is well disciplined before trying to correct the others. Boy, HE is really turning into something.....:confused::confused::confused:

[kimpe_bultang]

..kimpe_bultang, thanks for sharing & looking fw to your translation. If not, perhaps other INAn BCF members can help in(ie. indra, babonimut, DoublesPlayer, Krisna or others)-thanks in advance!;):cool:

From what i've just read quickly, it looks like Taufik is again, putting the "blame" on PBSI. It's also quite ironic when he said(in the 2nd half of the article) that he wants PBSI to confirm in advance players who will go to tournaments overseas. Thing is, isn't he on the list and have gotten his airplane tickets/accommodation booked for the AE?? What is he worried abt?? What is he waiting for?? I really don't understand what is he trying to accomplish by protesting and not going to the AE?? Further, what's his business anyway, in trying to be concerned abt the well being of the other players?? Can't he just behave like any other Pelatnas players and follow order??..Maybe i need to go back and re-read the whole article again and try to get a much clearer picture of what is he trying to say or what his point is...:confused: :p
Boy, this is really turning into something...:rolleyes: :p :( :o

Well, for one, I'll see when I hv the time.. :D :D And, he's saying that, PBSI should be more strict with the plyrs.. Like, for example, those plyrs are forbid to play in Swiss Opn.. but, he's saying, why Swiss Opn?? Why not AE?? AE comes first, it doesn't make sense.. And also, PBSI should follow soccer's discipline, when a player got red card, he should not join the next match.. But, PBSI is CHOOSING the tounaments which they should and should not play... That is what Taufik's protesting about.. Well, he's ust like that you know, hahahaha, he likes discipline a lot.. Just like when he walk on Lin Dan bcs of the linejudge, not judging properly.. :D That's the answer, hahaha, yeah, maybe I'll try to translate it fast.. Hahaha.. I'll see to that..

[kimpe_bultang]

:D :D Yeah, finally finish the translation!! :cool: Well, sorry in advance if the English is not so good, hahahahaha, my English is just standard.. :p But, anyway, hope this makes it clear!! :D :cool:


-“I am disappointed. Actually AE is one of my targets this year. But, for the well being of the organisation, I don’t mind giving up. Me protesting is because I want the best for PBSI.” TH said.

In a café around Senayan area, Wednesday (28/2) at night, Taufik was accompanied by Ami Gumelar, his wife, telling all the problems. He’s doing it so that the national badminton achievement will improve. “My friends will not dare to speak up if they are in front of the PBSI’s people.”

“I will never destroy Ina’s badminton. In fact, I want better system. Not only are the players had to play better, but the management also have to have a better rule,” the 25-year-old chap said.

Taufik confessed that he did not have any anger to his friends who got punishments for going to Papua, last December. What he wants is only one: management have to be more honest and open to players.

Before the SK punishment that states the 7 players not going to Swiss Super Series, he got a news that SK that was signed by the Head of PBSI, Sutiyoso, states that Luluk Hadiyanto, Alven Yulianto, Flandy Limpele, Markis Kido and Rendra Wijaya are before not sent to All England, and Yoga Ukikasah and Yonathan Suryatma are not going to be sent to German Open.

However, the decision changed, “I know that actually for the Swiss Open, PBSI has not send the names of the players. So, from here I see that the management is not open and honest,” Taufik explained.

With that, management decided to wash their hands, “ It looks like it is better if I myself don’t go to AE, rather than more players not going because they have not been registered in Swiss.”


Straightening the Rules


What he wants is that the PBSI’s rules to be straightened. If a player is wrong, he’ll get a punishment. Vice versa, when management has done something wrong, they should receive punishment too.

For example, when coach Hendrawan was sick, Marleve Mainaky fails to accompany Ws players to Malaysia Super Series because SK has not been signed. However, how come Sigit Pamungkas could already handle MD when he did not has the SK? Here, we can see that PBSI has no proper rules.

“Actually, I’m already tired looking at PBSI organisation. I don’t like to blame Sutiyoso (ketua umum-head of PBSI), but the staff that cannot work properly. They make anyhow make rules, how can one make their own SK?”

“If PBSI is going to be like this forever, I believe INA’s badminton cannot move on and be better.”
Taufik actually really wants INA to be better (badminton) from the bottom of his heart. He hopes that PBSI can make a fast decision, including sending their plyers to another country for tournaments. Until now, I would say that if the players have not sat on the aeroplane, sending the players have not been clear.

“If only in a short period they cannot make a decision, how about making programme for a player for a one year long?” Taufik said.

“One more time, I want our badminton to be better and do not want to destroy PBSI!”-


Well, enjoy!!:D And, no juice added.. Hahaha, comment pleaase.. Hwahaha, this is the first time I'm translating things this much!!:cool:

[alfa2]

thanks for the translation kimpe_bultang.

[yannie]

Thanks Jessica!!! Anyone knows if the Indon players (Flandy, Markis, Luluk, Alvent) have already left for AE?

[phaarix]

TY for translating :). It's getting gradually more understandable (the situation I mean, not the translation - the translation is perfect :D).

[alfa2]

I dont think that GB is hurting PBSI by not playing in AE. He is sliding his own reputation down to the drain more and more while losing the chance to win AE, and again in turn he is the one who wil b hurted by this kind of irrational decision.

still remember when he walked away from the court to protest the unfair line judgement. All he had protested is himself by getting his shitty ranking now. Does IBF care about how he reacted and change the way how the line is judged? no.

All i can say is that stop being so naive and be what he potentially can be as he is one of the most talented guys out there. Be a good sportsman. Leave the politics to the management level.

[Loh]

Even if he refers to badminton countries only, PRC is still not the poorest country. We can refer to the following site : https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html ;
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf .

From the GDP statistics, it is clear that China is among the top nations in the world. But to generate that sort of an income, China needs to engage the most number of people in the world also, whereas, the US, for example needs much less workers.

So, for a more realistic comparison, we should look at statistics that give us how much does a person in a country earns per year, ie, on a "per capita" bais.

The following 2005 statistics may be of a rough guide as they are not updated yet:

http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm

Just to show the per capta income of some countries:

World Bank Development Indicators 2006

COUNTRY 2004 2005 RANK

Luxembourg 56380 65630 1
Norway 51810 59590 2
Switzerland 49600 54930 3
Denmark 40750 47390 4
Iceland 37920 46320 5
United States 41440 43740 6
Sweden 35840 41060 7
Ireland 34310 40150 8
Japan 37050 38980 9
United Kingdom 33630 37600 10

Canada 28310 32600 19
Australia 27070 32220 20

Hong Kong, China 27130 27670 23
Singapore 24740 27490 24
New Zealand 19550 25960 25

World 6338 6987 48

Malaysia 4520 4960 57
Thailand 2490 2750 86

China 1500 1740 108

Philippines 1200 1300 118
Indonesia 1130 1280 120
India 630 720 137
Mongolia 600 690 139
Pakistan 600 690 140
Vietnam 540 620 145

From the above statistics, China has now overtaken many of the Southeast Asian and South Asian countries.

Many of the world's richest people come form China and India, but the income disparity between the rich and the poor in these countries is getting wider and wider each year.

[fabcargo]

..kimpe_bultang, thanks for sharing & looking fw to your translation. If not, perhaps other INAn BCF members can help in(ie. indra, babonimut, DoublesPlayer, Krisna or others)-thanks in advance!;):cool:

From what i've just read quickly, it looks like Taufik is again, putting the "blame" on PBSI. It's also quite ironic when he said(in the 2nd half of the article) that he wants PBSI to confirm in advance players who will go to tournaments overseas. Thing is, isn't he on the list and have gotten his airplane tickets/accommodation booked for the AE?? What is he worried abt?? What is he waiting for?? I really don't understand what is he trying to accomplish by protesting and not going to the AE?? Further, what's his business anyway, in trying to be concerned abt the well being of the other players?? Can't he just behave like any other Pelatnas players and follow order??..Maybe i need to go back and re-read the whole article again and try to get a much clearer picture of what is he trying to say or what his point is...:confused: :p
Boy, this is really turning into something...:rolleyes: :p :( :o


We are not Taufik Hidayat so we cannot judge him or guess what he thinks...
He is protesting PBSI and withdrew from AE...SO WHAT? Life goes on.
Why are we all so upset and thinks that Taufik owes us something and must go to AE and play??
Taufik does not owe anyone anything and he is free to do whatever he wants. PERIOD

[alfa2]

We are not Taufik Hidayat so we cannot judge him or guess what he thinks...
He is protesting PBSI and withdrew from AE...SO WHAT? Life goes on.
Why are we all so upset and thinks that Taufik owes us something and must go to AE and play??
Taufik does not owe anyone anything and he is free to do whatever he wants. PERIOD
what you said here is true, but
everyone like ctcad or me has the freedom to say out what we feel that is right.
if not what's the purpose of this forum? i thought it is to share the thoughts of the members at BC?
This is life, people give comments on what you do or don't.
When ppl feel that the thing you do is a right thing to do, ppl will give compliments and if it isnt, you will KENA BASH. simple.
SO WHAT, and then Life goes on. PERIOD. :D:D:D:D

[Loh]

We are interested in TH because we are interested in what's going on in the badminton scene, especially those concerning 'special' players in the top echelon of world badminton.

Most of us admire TH as a very talented badminton player and since he has come forth to say earlier that he wants to win the AE to make it a sort of a Grand Slam in badminton (AE, WC and OG), we are certainly interested in how he's going to do it.

The recent PBSI episode has put us in disarray and we are saddened if TH is not participating as we expect to see fireworks during the AE with his presence, and some probably have booked tickets just to see him play.

If TH has decided to hang up his racket and retire for good, of course we will also be saddened but then his name will slowly be erased off our minds as time passes by.

So you can't blame us for not wanting to know as much as possible what he intends to do for now. ;)

[alfa2]

yeah exactly.....

[Chu Liuxiang]

From the GDP statistics, it is clear that China is among the top nations in the world. But to generate that sort of an income, China needs to engage the most number of people in the world also, whereas, the US, for example needs much less workers.

So, for a more realistic comparison, we should look at statistics that give us how much does a person in a country earns per year, ie, on a "per capita" bais.

The following 2005 statistics may be of a rough guide as they are not updated yet:

http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm

Just to show the per capta income of some countries:

From the above statistics, China has now overtaken many of the Southeast Asian and South Asian countries.

Many of the world's richest people come form China and India, but the income disparity between the rich and the poor in these countries is getting wider and wider each year.
Thanks, Loh. The statistics of per capita income also shows that The PRC is not the poorest country in the world.:D

[Dreamzz]

what really surprises me is that the per capita income is higher in ireland than in the uk.
looks like some research is in order for me!

[2cents]

Well, the data clearly shows China is among the poorest country in the world. Since the middle 6 thousand dollars is the average, so roughly:
< $6000 => poor countries
< $4000 => extremely poor countries
< $2000 => poorest countries

On the other hand, China ranked even beyond the first 100 countries in the world, that's another way we can call it poorest country.

I also said Indonesia as poorest country, but none argued me with that, check the data, Indonesia and China are side by side in the list.

Of course, China is among the fastest growing countries, that's for sure, but it does NOT mean it is NOT among the poorest. That's two different concepts.

For UK poorer than Ireland, there is no surprise at all. Ireland has been one of the fastest growing in the world for many years. It has done extremely well in the IT/software and pharmaceutical areas those industries have very high profit margin.

UK actually did pretty good in recent years too. Back to the end of last century, UK almost plummeted to the 2nd class country in the west Europe. There should not be any surprise now, if any, should be in the last decade. That time, even people in HK, are richer than UK people. You should get less surprised since UK rally behind very strong now.

[twobeer]

The MS qualifications seems ridicilous...

All four players who reach "semi" in group 3.. Will most likely beat the all the guys in group 1..

The seedings, seems ..ehrrm.. doubtful :p

/Twobeer

[2cents]

Even in badminton countries, China is also among the poorest, which is related to the topics here ;)

The poorer the country, the more players exported to other countries. China and Indonesia are the only countries players have to go abroad for a living which is not even average standarded. Back several years ago, China was even much poorer than the poorest Indonesia. That's the reason so many Chinese players played or worked for Indonesia, but not vice versa. World Champion Shi Fangjing and Gong Ruina even tried very hard to date Indonesia players. Especially Shi Fangjing claimed her target was to immigrant to Indonesia. And also at that time, Indonesia open rejected all Chinese players, claimed that all Chinese players and coaches could become illegal immigrants once they landed on the Indonesia. Indonesia government even did not give Chinese players and coaches visa to enter their country. Those are all well known facts, please check them up. Liang Qiuxia, Tang Xianhu..all Chinese also back to Indonesia for a better life. Even though now Tang back to China, but still, Wang Chen, Li Mao, Zhou Mi, Pi Hongyan, Xu Haiwen, Yao Jie, Wu Yunyong, ..., even Li Li, Huang Jiaqi, and tons of unknown Chinese looking for better life outside China. We haven't seen anything the other way around

[wl2172]

Anyone knows the live scoring website?

[ctjcad]

We are not Taufik Hidayat so we cannot judge him or guess what he thinks...
He is protesting PBSI and withdrew from AE...SO WHAT? Life goes on.
Why are we all so upset and thinks that Taufik owes us something and must go to AE and play??
Taufik does not owe anyone anything and he is free to do whatever he wants. PERIOD
hi there fabcargo, how's it going??..long time haven't heard from you & good to hear from you again..:)
you know what, you are probably right that perhaps i(and a few others) have made his recent news/squabble/pull-out "too big" than it probably is. You're also right that "Taufik does not owe anyone anything etc. and he's free to do whatever he wants"..And sure, "life goes on" even with this news...;) :cool:
But i guess, with his "bigger than normal" stature/name in badminton, nowadays, along with his past history, perhaps comments and feedbacks will be made on the news. I, personally, am not upset nor am asking him to "pay us back" if he doesn't go to AE. I could care less, actually.:p And actually there are probably more fans who are planning to go to AE, to see him play, who are a bit more disappointed than i am with his withdrawal. I've(and some of us BCers) just commented and wondered abt all the recent news and esp. his reason(s) for not going to AE....Which, IMO, doesn't make sense and is quite "befuddling" and maybe even "amusing"...:p :confused: :rolleyes:
I guess in the future, if similar news on Taufik appear again, we might as well just ignore them altogether and just say "Oh, same old, same old..."......Or would that be avoidable altogether??..:confused: ;) :)

[alfa2]

Even in badminton countries, China is also among the poorest, which is related to the topics here ;)

The poorer the country, the more players exported to other countries. China and Indonesia are the only countries players have to go abroad for a living which is not even average standarded. Back several years ago, China was even much poorer than the poorest Indonesia. That's the reason so many Chinese players played or worked for Indonesia, but not vice versa. World Champion Shi Fangjing and Gong Ruina even tried very hard to date Indonesia players. Especially Shi Fangjing claimed her target was to immigrant to Indonesia. And also at that time, Indonesia open rejected all Chinese players, claimed that all Chinese players and coaches could become illegal immigrants once they landed on the Indonesia. Indonesia government even did not give Chinese players and coaches visa to enter their country. Those are all well known facts, please check them up. Liang Qiuxia, Tang Xianhu..all Chinese also back to Indonesia for a better life. Even though now Tang back to China, but still, Wang Chen, Li Mao, Zhou Mi, Pi Hongyan, Xu Haiwen, Yao Jie, Wu Yunyong, ..., even Li Li, Huang Jiaqi, and tons of unknown Chinese looking for better life outside China. We haven't seen anything the other way around

China has become alot better, economic wise or the standard of living . China is really booming in recent years. Even alot of Sporeans and Msians tried hard to shift their business to China.

It's just that the Chinese Government policy of not spending as much in rewarding the sportsman and the coach as other country. I mean why spend more when they are already providing great results now. Poor mentality for the Chinese Government in this issue though......

[Loh]

Even in badminton countries, China is also among the poorest, which is related to the topics here ;)

The poorer the country, the more players exported to other countries. China and Indonesia are the only countries players have to go abroad for a living which is not even average standarded. Back several years ago, China was even much poorer than the poorest Indonesia. That's the reason so many Chinese players played or worked for Indonesia, but not vice versa. World Champion Shi Fangjing and Gong Ruina even tried very hard to date Indonesia players. Especially Shi Fangjing claimed her target was to immigrant to Indonesia. And also at that time, Indonesia open rejected all Chinese players, claimed that all Chinese players and coaches could become illegal immigrants once they landed on the Indonesia. Indonesia government even did not give Chinese players and coaches visa to enter their country. Those are all well known facts, please check them up. Liang Qiuxia, Tang Xianhu..all Chinese also back to Indonesia for a better life. Even though now Tang back to China, but still, Wang Chen, Li Mao, Zhou Mi, Pi Hongyan, Xu Haiwen, Yao Jie, Wu Yunyong, ..., even Li Li, Huang Jiaqi, and tons of unknown Chinese looking for better life outside China. We haven't seen anything the other way around

I don't think I can argue with you on most of what you've said, particularly on the exporting of the Chinese players. However, I would like to say that Li Li's case is slightly differently although the ultimate goal is the same. She came to Singapore as a young teenager, barely 13 years old I think, to be trained and groomed under our SBA scheme, unlike many other Chinese exports who were already well advanced in their professional development, many of whom had attained national level standards.

Unfortunately, many Asian countries are not even up to the world average income per capita and they remain relatively poor and 'developing' countries belonging to the 'Third World' category.

In China's case, she is the fastest growing in the world, thus her GDP is among the top in the world. If we take into account the latest statistics for 2006, I'm sure she would have gone higher up the ladder and left Indonesia further behind.

Apart from impressive Ireland and what I understand of World No.1 Luxembourg's forte in finance, three of the Nordic countries, making up of Norway, Denmark and Sweden, have been doing very well. Maybe they have a much smaller population who are relatively well educated compared with the likes of China, India and Indonesia. ;)

[hcyong]

It all depends on how you measure wealth. In terms of GDP per capita, it's true that the numbers for China is not very flattering because vast poverty exists, especially in the countryside.

The picture is different if you look at just the GDP, then you should realise that China is extremely powerful to the extent that the US considers it a real threat. Size matters. Its GDP per capita pales in comparison to Taiwan, Korea and Japan, but whose military is strongest among them? In parallel, China's badminton cannot be considered poor. In fact, it is one of the richest national team in the world, in terms of fund available to them.

[indra]

ALthough Indonesia is classified as the poorest country in terms of GDP...It does not mean anything for Indonesians...in terms of natural resources wow...Indonesia is among the richest....:D .

Indonesia is the most beautiful country on earth:D ....

That's why the style of badminton shown by Indonesian players has always been very beautiful:D

Viva Taufik:)

[Loh]

It all depends on how you measure wealth. In terms of GDP per capita, it's true that the numbers for China is not very flattering because vast poverty exists, especially in the countryside.

The picture is different if you look at just the GDP, then you should realise that China is extremely powerful to the extent that the US considers it a real threat. Size matters. Its GDP per capita pales in comparison to Taiwan, Korea and Japan, but whose military is strongest among them? In parallel, China's badminton cannot be considered poor. In fact, it is one of the richest national team in the world, in terms of fund available to them.

Yes I agree.

Each country has its own strengths and weaknesses, very much like an individual, but in a form many times larger and magnified.

And each country has its own priorities and goals, with some countries that are so lopsided in their different aspects of development.

Like in the case of North Korea, when it was reported that the population was suffering from famine, yet its leaders chose to spend much of its resources in developing nuclear weapons. Its leaders chose not to open up its economy to the world, unlike China, with quite a similar political ideology. Thanks to the late Premier Deng Xiao Peng who initiated the move, China is now prospering as a member of the World Trade Organization. Whereas in the past, its exports were more controlled, now China is able to export to many more countries in the world and earn much higher income.

But of course, N Korea has other motives and has been able to literally 'blackmail' the First World countries into agreeing with its demands. :D

But I suppose, a country is generally judged by how well the majority of its people live, whether they have at least the basic necessities of food, clothing and shelther to start off with. Those who are enjoying the highest standards of living as in most of the First World countries will find living in developing countries quite a task adjusting into. But even in so-called Third World countries like China, you can find First World facilities and services in the more modern and advanced cities like Shanghai and Beijing.

So in a way, the world is getting to be more similar but the high living standards available to the masses in most First World countres may not be available in the same degree and to the same extent elsewhere. Because they think that they are able to enjoy a better life, many young people from the countryside are attracted to the bright lights of the city. So too are the young from Third World countries attracted to the greener pastures of the First World.

But it doesn't mean that urban dwellers or First World countries, generally with a higher per capita income, need necessarily be happier than rural, countryside and Third World counterparts.

The measurement of Happiness is another different subject altogether. But a recent survey on the Happiness Index puts wealthy Denmark far ahead of others. :)

[Loh]

ALthough Indonesia is classified as the poorest country in terms of GDP...It does not mean anything for Indonesians...in terms of natural resources wow...Indonesia is among the richest....:D .

Indonesia is the most beautiful country on earth:D ....

That's why the style of badminton shown by Indonesian players has always been very beautiful:D

Viva Taufik:)

Indra, you should also visit New Zealand, if you've not done so already. This will open up another view of "the most beautiful country on earth". :rolleyes:

In terms of riches, yes Indonesia is among the richest. But why can't you share some of these with the rest of the world instead of giving us the 'haze'. :D

[jermaine]

very unlucky to some of the players this time round.. susilo and kendrick cannot go far..
most of the top players are battling out in the early stage.:confused:

[Krisna]

very unlucky to some of the players this time round.. susilo and kendrick cannot go far..
most of the top players are battling out in the early stage.:confused:

Yeah, Indonesia also have a terrible draw almost in all categories...:mad: Similar to Malaysia's MD draw in Malaysia Super Series earlier this year...

[Krisna]

Indra, you should also visit New Zealand, if you've not done so already. This will open up another view of "the most beautiful country on earth". :rolleyes:

In terms of riches, yes Indonesia is among the richest. But why can't you share some of these with the rest of the world instead of giving us the 'haze'. :D

I don't know about Indra, but I have visited New Zealand... It is surely one of the most beautiful country on Earth. :) I think USA and China should also rank among the most beautiful countries on Earth. Even India has many awesome areas [shown in the Bolywood scenes]... Basically, when a country has a large enough area, it is bound to have many cool places to see... :cool:

About the haze... er... sorry about that... :o It is hard to control the actions of 220 million people living located in 17,000 islands in a newly formed democratic system... :D

But hey, because of the facts above plus Indonesia's long and distinguished badminton history and experience, we have a shot at producing many more champions in future... :) All with their own unique talent that are great to watch... We shall share that with the world. :cool:

[ctjcad]

:D :D Yeah, finally finish the translation!! :cool: Well, sorry in advance if the English is not so good, hahahahaha, my English is just standard.. :p But, anyway, hope this makes it clear!! :D :cool:
Well, enjoy!!:D And, no juice added.. Hahaha, comment pleaase.. Hwahaha, this is the first time I'm translating things this much!!:cool:
..kimpe_bultang, before i forget, just want to say thanks for doing that for us:) ..next time, i shall call upon you to help us out again..hehe;):cool:

[Chu Liuxiang]

Even in badminton countries, China is also among the poorest, which is related to the topics here ;)

The poorer the country, the more players exported to other countries. China and Indonesia are the only countries players have to go abroad for a living which is not even average standarded. Back several years ago, China was even much poorer than the poorest Indonesia. That's the reason so many Chinese players played or worked for Indonesia, but not vice versa. World Champion Shi Fangjing and Gong Ruina even tried very hard to date Indonesia players. Especially Shi Fangjing claimed her target was to immigrant to Indonesia. And also at that time, Indonesia open rejected all Chinese players, claimed that all Chinese players and coaches could become illegal immigrants once they landed on the Indonesia. Indonesia government even did not give Chinese players and coaches visa to enter their country. Those are all well known facts, please check them up. Liang Qiuxia, Tang Xianhu..all Chinese also back to Indonesia for a better life. Even though now Tang back to China, but still, Wang Chen, Li Mao, Zhou Mi, Pi Hongyan, Xu Haiwen, Yao Jie, Wu Yunyong, ..., even Li Li, Huang Jiaqi, and tons of unknown Chinese looking for better life outside China. We haven't seen anything the other way around
Sometimes, the same amount of money that we earn but spending at different places could ended up very differently. For examples, a Shanghainese badminton player who is getting a monthly income of USD1,000.00 is living quite comfortable in Shanghai but if the same income goes to a Denmark player who is living in Coppenhagen could be a disaster to him. You can say that the Danish player is having a poor income in Coppenhagen but the same comment can't go to the Shanghainese player who stays in Shanghai because he has a higher purchasing power in Shanghai.

Do make a trip to visit China 2cents, perhaps for 2008 Beijing Olympic or just taking a business trip to Shanghai, you will see China with your own eyes as I always think that seeing is believing.:D

For Chinese players/coaches or Indonesia players/coaches who left their home countries and servicing others countries, there are a lot of reasons behind and money may not be the only reason. For some players like Zhou Mi, Wu Yunyong, they have spent their entire life time in badminton and would not want to retire so early but our good friend, Mr. LYB thinks that they are not good enough and wanted to give more chances to other youngsters instead of Zhou Mi and Wu Yunyong and force them having early retirement. They still wants to play but they can't represent Chinese team anymore, what to do ? The only way is try to get other teams who need their service and can support them. In fact, we can even conclude that Chen Hong's early retirement this year is also due to no chance has been given to him for a place in Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup, Asian Games and 2008 Olympics Games.

Same story goes to Li Mao, Li Mao can't get along with his boss, Mr LYB. So what happened ? If you really can't get along with your boss and the worse thing he has no intention to leave, so the only way is you leave. That's why Li Mao is having his coaching career in Korea and Malaysia and now back to Korea again. It is not purely that China is poor and can't pay a good income to Li Mao. Wang Chen, a Shanghai player who can't get along with LYB, so she can't represent Chinese Team anymore. But she can still play and would not want to retire so soon and her only choice to play in international arena is to join another team.
A lot of Chinese players wanted to continue their international badminton career but due to the tough competition in Chinese team, the only way is to leave their home country and join other team, not because they are no good, but other younger players are performing better.

[ctjcad]

A lot of Chinese players wanted to continue their international badminton career but due to the tough competition in Chinese team, the only way is to leave their home country and join other team, not because they are no good, but other younger players are performing better.
..good input, Chu Liuxiang..I think this paragraph(as mentioned many times before by other BCers) sums up your post. I think that's both an advantage and disadvantage for CHN. Advantage in that they have an abundant of very good athletes to choose from(to an extent because of their huge population). Disadvantage in that not all of them can showcase their talents, but rather being stocked as "back-ups"..Often times, not being used at all, if any...
In a way, it's also true for other strong badminton countries like INA, MAS and even Korea...eventhough it's not as prevalent as CHN..;)
Anyways, don't want to stray more off topic, but IMO, in the long term, i think there is/are more benefit(s) in all these, as other countries can enjoy their talents(esp. in badminton) and further popularize the sport..;) :cool:

[Dreamzz]

hahahaha, we've come a long way from the original topic, "All England Draws", haven't we? :rolleyes:

not that i haven't contributed to this digression ...

[Loh]

hahahaha, we've come a long way from the original topic, "All England Draws", haven't we? :rolleyes:

not that i haven't contributed to this digression ...

Yes we have and it is a most interesting digression. Even our very careful ctjcad (wonder what it stands for?) can't resist in joining in. We have to thank our moderators for being so tolerant and liberal. Kudos to them! ;)