Physics of feather & nylon shuttles

[SystemicAnomaly]

I posted this in response to a query on another badminton message board (at badmintonworld.com). Let me know if your experiences or theories are different than my speculations...

Due to the nature/construction of a shuttle its flight deviates quite a bit from the expected parabolic path for projectile motion. This is especially true of harder hit shots. The trajectory deviation is due to the natural spin of the shuttle as well as the considerable amount of drag due to air friction. Sliced/cut shots (hit with a generous amount of spin) will also deviate quite a bit from a parabolic trajectory.
If you look at the path of a high deep serve or clear, you see that the first part of the flight is somewhat parabolic in nature. However as the shuttle approaches its peak the path starts to deviate quite a bit. As the bird starts its descent it falls almost straight down; the horizontal component of the flight is almost nil.

You've probably noticed that the sound of a cleanly hit feather shuttle is different than a comparably hit nylon shuttle. The sound of the feather shuttle hit seems a lot crisper than that of a synthetic bird. The cork on a feather shuttle may have something to do with this but I suspect other factors play a greater role in the sound. Many nylon birds have rubber or synthetic "corks". However, even nylon shuttles with real cork bases still don't sound quite as crisp & clean as their feather counterparts.

I suspect that the difference in sound is due, in large part, to the initial speed of the shuttle coming off the racket. It seems to me that the feather shuttle comes off the racket at a faster velocity than most nylon shuttles. However, due to the feather construction, these types of shuttles decelerate at a faster rate than most nylon shuttles. Many synthetic shuttles are, what I call, "constant velocity" birds. Altho' they may not come off the racket quite as fast as a feather bird, they don't decelerate very much either.

The primary reason a hard hit feather shuttle comes off the racket quickly but also has more braking action is that the feathers collapse more than the nylon skirt does at impact. The hard hit feather shuttle is initially more streamlined after impact. As the feather shuttle continues on its path, the feathers regain their original shape (skirt angle) which causes more drag (due to air friction) resulting is a greater rate of deceleration. The collapsing effect on a synthetic shuttle is probably not as pronounced.

A difference in spin characteristics could also account for differences in deceleration & initial speed between a feather shuttle & a synthetic shuttle. More speculation... could it be that the feather shuttle has little or no spin initially (at impact) whereas the synthetic shuttle starts to spin sooner? This could possibly be another factor.

It should be noted that feather & nylon shuttles may be weighted or balanced differently. This difference manifests itself when a sliced net drop is executed. The way a feather bird shuttle tumbles before righting itself is different than the way a nylon shuttle tumbles.

You might try to contact Yonex, Carlton, HL or some other manufacturer of feather & nylon shuttles to get more of the physics of this stuff. Another possibility is to track down James or Jon Poole for more info. I don't know is James Poole is still alive but he is undoubtedly retired. Last I heard Jon R. Poole was an assistant professor in the Dept. of Teaching & Learning at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (where he also received his doctorate).

[Mag]

Gregr, I hesitate to contradict you but I think you have missed the most important difference between nylon and feather shuttles. It can be seen in high-speed camera shots.

The nylon shuttle basically collapses onto the string bed. The skirt folds in over the cork and then, as the shuttle bounces off, it retakes its shape in the air. The feather shuttle is more rigid and does not deform in this sense, it has more of a proper "bounce" action. If the feathers deform as much as you suggest they would simply break (and well, often they do!)

Thus the difference in sound and feel on impact.

As to the difference in flight pattern, that is really out of my league.

[Mag]

While we're on this topic, as a curiosity a club friend of mine told me the other day that during the mid 90's, Prince manufactured feather shuttles with replaceable feathers! He claimed to have played with those, and I see no reason not to believe him...

Does anyone know about these shuttles?

[Blitz]

Hmm this is interesting.....I've nebber heard of it b4 too....

[Cheung]

Yes, I also heard of these in mid 80's though never actually saw one in action.

Theoretically, if one feather broke, it could be replaced. How that would change the playing characteristics of the shuttle is not known but the idea didn't really take off.

[Seb]

While on the topic, how come there are no synthetic shuttles with plastic feathers instead of the traditional nylon skirt? Surely they would closely emulate the flight and feel of a real feather shuttle but be more durable? But perhaps they would be too expensive to make... any thoughts?

[SystemicAnomaly]

it sounds as if the nylon deforms in a very different manner than the feather shuttle. the shaft of the feathers are rigid enuff to reist the kind of transverse deformation that you suggest but are flexible enuff to allow the shaft bend so that the skirt angle is less just after impact.

also, i was not suggesting a differnence in trajectory as much as a difference in deceleration pattern.

[SystemicAnomaly]

i suspect that it would be too cost-prohibitive to make it practical. however, i can't help but feel that perhaps the synthetic shuttle manufacturers are holding back on us in developing a "true flight" synthetic shuttle cuz it could obsolete the feather shuttle as we know it.

[Mag]

Yes, and possibly the different deformation patterns could have something to do with it. My guess is that due to the higher rigidity of the feather shuttle it leaves the racqket face at a greater initial speed but has higher air resistance, so it slows down more quickly, and drops steeper to the ground. The plastic shuttle, on the other hand, makes more of a "splat" on the string bed, and thus it leaves the racquet at a comparatively lower speed. So, in order for the plastic shuttle to travel about the same distance as a feather shuttle on a given shot it must have less air resistance, and drop down less steep.

And indeed, this is the most noticeable difference (apart from the sound), between feather and plastic: on a high defensive clear, feather shuttles will rise up in the air and then fall more or less straight down to the ground, whereas plastic falls travels at a much flatter angle.

[cooler]

mag, i had posted about this a while back, actually to 'happy guy' about how yonex lacks innovation. i have 3 in my possession of those prince shuttlecocks with replaceable feathers. very neat design may i add. The shuttle speed is ADJUSTABLE too. I just have to dial it in, clockwise or counterclock wise.

[modious]

Really?
I've never heard of this kind of shuttles b4!
Why did Prince stop manufacturing these shuttles? Expensive?

[cooler]

didn't met sale target.
why? lot of reason i can think of.

1. the pros and tournaments are heavily sponsored and usually not by Prince. No exposure or marketing, it died.
2. pros badminton players are very shy to change. They were brought up and trained with regular feather shuttles. Would pros risk playing prince feathers in tournaments. They don't want another uncertain parameter enter in their well thot out plan and strategy. Given their choices, the pros prefer to use equipments that they were trained with. It is not about cost, it's about familiarity.
3. Most people don't want the hassle to change feathers, even though it is a cheaper option. Pulling out a new regular feather shuttle out of a tube is easier.
4. 99% of the feather shuttle makers want prince shuttle to fail.

In that same year prince introduced the first isometric shape racket frame to the market. Guess who expanded (copied) on that innovation, huh? ==> Yonex, and then of course follow by countless clones.

[Mag]

Wow, that's really cool! Treasure them!

Have you played with them? Do they feel like a regular feather shuttle?

I am also curious about the cork. Quite often the cork gets permanently deformed after a hard smash or a mishit on the frame... the what do you do with these shuttles? Is the cork also replaceable?

[cooler]

yes, i do.
yes, i have hit them before, i think it feel like 85% feather and 15% nylon but that was more than 10 years ago. If prince had continue making them, i believe they would make improvement as technology can be many times better that 10 years ago.

good question about the cork, mag.
the construction is quite simple too like the regular feather shuttle.
Other than the feathers, the cork and feather holder frame is a one piece synethic rubber or plastic unit. When i squeeze the plastic cork, it feel 5% softer than a brand new real cork. As u know, real cork do get softer with play where as the plastic cork won't. So, i can say the a new prince's hybrid shuttle plays like a 10% worn feather shuttle. Therefore, it really ain't that bad.

One other point i miss about the demise of prince's hybrid shuttle, which is probably the real reason.

5. The stores that ordered and sold this prince shuttle didn't bother, forgot or knew to order the feather refills. So when customers want to replace worn feathers, they got no alternative and gave up on the prince shuttles altogether.

That is really sad. I think it is also the fault of prince too by not providing upfront technical and marketing data to their distributors and retail store about this new and unique product.

[Mag]

Mmm... yes, it's too bad. I actually find it very surprising that in this hi-tech era nobody has been able to produce synthetic shuttles that behave like feather ones... This Prince product was at least a creative attempt to bridge the gap! Too bad it didn't catch on...

[spinner]

I heard that all of the feathers on a feather shuttle are from the left side of the goose, is that why lefthanded player say they get more control

[DinkAlot]

I heard that all of the feathers on a feather shuttle are from the left side of the goose, is that why lefthanded player say they get more control

Negative Ghost Rider. There's a post around here somewhere about this...

[dse5001]

The feathers are less durable than the nylon, but it is more safe for the environtment. Beside, I sprain my shoulder and wrist after I play with the nylon shuttlecock because it is too heavy. So, I choose the feather.

[Polar Bear]

The feathers are less durable than the nylon, but it is more safe for the environtment. Beside, I sprain my shoulder and wrist after I play with the nylon shuttlecock because it is too heavy. So, I choose the feather.

Safer for the environment? How so? Agriculture is the human activity that has the greatest negative effect on the environment. Unless you do what I do. Here in Vancouver we have a rampant infestation of Canadian Geese. So when I need feathers I just head down to the local park with some popcorn and a baseball bat.

You sprained you're soulder and wrist because a nylon shuttlecock is too heavy?!?!?! Whoa, I think you need to hit the gym!

[Pete LSD]

No wonder we have so many juicy and crispy BBQ geese on sales lately.


Safer for the environment? How so? Agriculture is the human activity that has the greatest negative effect on the environment. Unless you do what I do. Here in Vancouver we have a rampant infestation of Canadian Geese. So when I need feathers I just head down to the local park with some popcorn and a baseball bat.

You sprained you're soulder and wrist because a nylon shuttlecock is too heavy?!?!?! Whoa, I think you need to hit the gym!

[Matt]

Beside, I sprain my shoulder and wrist after I play with the nylon shuttlecock because it is too heavy. So, I choose the feather.

This is a technique issue since shots should be effortless with the correct technique regardless what shuttle is used.

[Pete LSD]

Okay, let's continue the feather Vs. nylon discussion here.

[cooler]

Okay, let's continue the feather Vs. nylon discussion here.
i had continued it on this thread http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=923373#post923373 because we are discussing more than just the physics of shuttles. The mod can move it to any thread as he feel as i'm flexible;)

[twobeer]

Okay, let's continue the feather Vs. nylon discussion here.

My argument stamina is running out..have to do some training as well (RSL classic Tourney, supplied by the club).. so little time, so fun to play :D

also noted http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=923373#post923373

Tpak and cooler goes gloves off again :)

/Twobeer

[Pete LSD]

And remember to try out RSL Tourney Classic with RSL X2 Gold and X2 Pro ;):D:). 33 lbs ECP with 10% pre-stretch is not an issue for these racquets.

[cooler]

My argument stamina is running out..have to do some training as well (RSL classic Tourney, supplied by the club).. so little time, so fun to play :D

also noted http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=923373#post923373

Tpak and cooler goes gloves off again :)

/Twobeersorry to hear that:D
coz i found a bust in your last post:p

[twobeer]

sorry to hear that:D
coz i found a bust in your last post:p

haha, bet you did, bet you did :cool:

/T

[twobeer]

And remember to try out RSL Tourney Classic with RSL X2 Gold and X2 Pro ;):D:). 33 lbs ECP with 10% pre-stretch is not an issue for these racquets.

Got two of my TC700 restrung with 30x33 BG80 at the club.. so sweeeet :D .
The stringer complained that the strings snapped in the machine 2 times while stringing, and that they made a loss on the string job :D ..

I just told him his rolls of BG80s probably are to old and brittle :D :D

(I usually supply my own rolls of BG80 or gosen RX or NBG95/98 :D :D )

/T

[taneepak]

BG80 needs special care and the use of a real starting knot when stringing the crosses. Using double half-hitch knot when pulling the first cross string at 33lbs is very dicey. However, a starting knot will be perfectly safe.

[Pete LSD]

Pertaining to starting knots for the X2 Gold/Pro, you have to ask the stringer to do four loops and two wrap around. The shared grommets have very large diameter holes. If the stringer doesn't wrap the tail end twice around the loops (into and out of), the resulting knot will get pulled into the grommet.


Got two of my TC700 restrung with 30x33 BG80 at the club.. so sweeeet :D .
The stringer complained that the strings snapped in the machine 2 times while stringing, and that they made a loss on the string job :D ..

I just told him his rolls of BG80s probably are to old and brittle :D :D

(I usually supply my own rolls of BG80 or gosen RX or NBG95/98 :D :D )

/T

[twobeer]

Pertaining to starting knots for the X2 Gold/Pro, you have to ask the stringer to do four loops and two wrap around. The shared grommets have very large diameter holes. If the stringer doesn't wrap the tail end twice around the loops (into and out of), the resulting knot will get pulled into the grommet.

Ouch.. I have not even seen the X2 on sale neither in Denmark or in Sweden.. Do you know agood internet shop that has it at a fair price?

/T

[Pete LSD]

TB, there are a few shops in HK that you can order from. Will PM you later.


Ouch.. I have not even seen the X2 on sale neither in Denmark or in Sweden.. Do you know agood internet shop that has it at a fair price?

/T

[saifii]

While on the topic, how come there are no synthetic shuttles with plastic feathers instead of the traditional nylon skirt? Surely they would closely emulate the flight and feel of a real feather shuttle but be more durable? But perhaps they would be too expensive to make... any thoughts?
heck our local manufactured shuttles(dirt cheap) do it. they use synthetic feathers but they are not really good to play with

[saifii]

ill show u pics in abt 2 days as my cam is out cold

[cooler]

i feel there are improvement still can be made to the current mavis but any business corporation would ask why since it only eat into feather business and bwf won't allow it in tournament anyway.

[taneepak]

To make a synthetic shuttlecock play like feathers manufacturers should study more about what make feathers "fly like a bird" instead of coming up with a skirt design to minimize shuttle collapse, which it has failed anyway.
A goose is a bird with feathers. Its feathers constitute a large part of a goose. Without its feathers a goose will look quite similar to a lizard flapping its fore-arms. It will be half its original size.
A goose feather is an amazing thing. It has a shaft or spine, and from its shaft you find fine parallel side branches called barbs. Barbs from one shaft are collectively called a vane. Now if you examine a goose feather barbs under a microscope you will see minute hooked branches, kind of like velcro hairs. These are called barbules. Barbules of adjacent barbs hooke together to hold the barbs into a well organized vane. This is nature's work.
Now why can't plastics with their modern technology do the same? Put you Mavis 300 under a microscope, and what do you see?
Therein lies the big divide. Improving on today's existing skirt is a waste of time and in the wrong direction Plastics should forget about using moulding process. Use biotechnology, moleculartechnology, and nanotechnology to "grow" synthetic feathers.

[taneepak]

i feel there are improvement still can be made to the current mavis but any business corporation would ask why since it only eat into feather business and bwf won't allow it in tournament anyway.

On improving the current Mavis, not likely because it will mean more of a bad design. Maybe a new more feather-like synthetic (Feathvis?), away from skirts, is the way to go. Why can't they get this into their head?
There is no conspiracy on the part of business corporations, the BWF, or even the world's leading players to discriminate against plastics for today's plastics' failure to even close to feathers. The market is fair. Manipulating the market on a global basis will only end in disaster and could wipe off Yonex and others.