Hi,
dunno if you remember me from the thread about wanting to know how ot tell a fake from a geniune racket but neway, here I am again.

I got a few friends who have genuine rackets, same model (nanospeeds) but bought from different suppliers at different times - all from Yonex shops online or otherwise - we compared them and noticed that
1. there are tiny variations in height between them
2. the font of the serial number was not the same on them all
3. there were colour variations between them

They were destined for differnt markets - sp, ch and so on

SO, if there is variation even in genuine rackets, how can fakes be recognised on tiney details?!

Another friend showed me a fake and I could feel that it had much less flexibility and the colourign was really really not the same at all so that was fine but I just think that judging things to be FAKE based on tiney details, you guys might be actually dismissing ones that are real but just made in a different factory or for a differnt market or whatever...

any thoughts?

newbie26 (still :confused: )

1) I bought my NS8k and NS9k in Taiwan and they are 2U. For NS8k and NS9k in US, they come in 3U. Even if they have same weight code, there are still tiney weight var. (example 3U means 85g to 89.9g)
2) Please do a search on this subject. You need to do a comparison to get a good feeling on the serial number.
3) You have 1 tank of paint, the paint will run out eventally. You will have to mix a new batch of the paint. They will be very close, however, they will not be "EXACTLY" the same. Same as for car.

My point is that silentheart, I agree completely, any run or rackest will have several batches that are going to differ in little details so how can you use such little detaisl to be certain that a racket is a fake?! It just seems wrong.

newbie26

We are not asking the paint color to be the same between the racquets. we are looking for the font, logo, paint positions. Search for the post about how to spot the fake and you should see. Here is a little story for you. A while back ago, Sir DinkALot post some picture of 3 racquets and challenge members here to id the fake(s). http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37810&highlight=fake
I made mistake.

Again, silentheart, this is my point. I know colours aren't always the same but the font of the serial number was different as well as these details. Also, you say that you made a mistake in identifying the fakes - so obviously identifying from photos is not reliable for spotting fakes and so the guys who post about fake ebay sellers could be completely wrong. this could even be illegal, damaging reputations and stuff for making allegations without sufficient proof.

I think this is pretty serious...

going to look at that thread now with the challenge.

newbie26

just looked at the "spot the fake" messages - it completely proves what i am trying to say here - NONE OF YOU CAN REALLY TELL FROM PHOTOS IF A RACKET IS A FAKE OR NOT! (unless it's a really obvious fake...like one I saw that said Yinex :lol: !) Sorry for caps but it's driving me mad - you all seem to be so sure and yet it seems impossible.

My shiny lovley racket arrived from centralsports and I love it and i know this is the best way to guarantee genuine rackets and it's fine with me but I am so sad for any peple selling genuine rackets that are said to be fake by you guys jus cause they might have come from different factoryies than yours came from or 'cause the lighting is wrong in the pthoto or something.

newbie26

Funny because if you read the thread then you would of known, I knew they were all real while people who are not familar got them wrong or think it was wrong. It is either you know or you don't.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37810&page=7&highlight=fake <-- Post #110

Espeically people who get NS9K JP's there is an additional thing which give the counterfeit versions away because it is missing a detail from the genuine article.

All Yonex high-end rackets are made in Japan factories.

There are of course other people besides myself who can tell if they are genuine or counterfeit by looking at the racket and or checking serials.

....so the guys who post about fake ebay sellers could be completely wrong. this could even be illegal, damaging reputations and stuff for making allegations without sufficient proof.

I think this is pretty serious...

going to look at that thread now with the challenge.

newbie26

This is complete bogus. The fake ebay sellers, are so easy to catch with details which gives them away instantly. As I mentioned before, if you know your stuff, you can tell, otherwise you don't.

newbie26 could be a fake reazvawda, come with certain fonts and typo too:p

newbie26 could be a fake reazvawda, come with certain fonts and typo too:p

Troll alert!!! :D

Hi, sorry for getting frustratted and cyber-shouting! I am not a troll and I have nothign to do with reazvawda...some sympathy for him, but nothing to do iwth him.

There were people on that thread who seemed to know their stuff and still got it wrong,that's what confuses me. I don't think I was still reading each and every post by post 110 so I may have missed you being right, matt. So, I understand that you are good at it and probably get it right most of the time but it seems to me impossible to get it right ALL of the time just from photos...especially with slight variations that mgiht be due to different batchs that could throw small details off.

Would you really guarantee that you can tell a fake always from a photo? Do you not think that you could get it wrong sometimes if it was a racket you weren't familiar with? Like the guy (was it you?) on the other thread saying about the spaces between the circles and the triangle on the logo - well, on the rackets in the "spot the fake" post, the logos didn't appear identically spaced even though tye were all genuine. Do you think my eyes are wonky or am I right in saying that?!

I do wnat to continue studying to see if I will eventually be able to spot fakes by photos and not just by havign to see them and feel them but I just don't think I will ever be confident enough to do it so instantly and dismiss people as fake sellers without touching the goods...

Thanks for all your time in reading this. I hope you don't still thinkI am a troll (and sorry for typos and stuff...)

newbie26

Hello Newbie26,

Everyone on this forum gives advice and tries to steer people away from getting ripped off. You either listen to the advice or not. We are all human and we all make mistakes.

The pros at spotting fakes on this forum don't only base their advice on how the racquet looks. They base it on how the ebay seller markets the racquet and experiences of other people who have received fakes and were ripped off. The pros look at the whole picture before they state that the racquets are fake.

Would you rather ignore their advice and still buy from someone on ebay that states their racquet is bought straight from the factory in Taiwan and is OEM. You get the $190 USD racquet for only $110 USD, what a deal. When you receive the racquet you find out you have a fake that cost $10 USD or less to make and breaks within a few sessions. How would you feel?

One major point is that all High End Yonex racquets are made in Japan. Only racquets that cost less than $100 are made in Taiwan.

Factories make racquets in batches, each batch can be slightly different. Even racquets in the same batch can be slightly different. That is why Yonex places specs with ranges. (Example: 2U is 94 to 96 grams.) If every single racquet was the same and perfect, Yonex wouldn't need to give a warranty and we would live in a perfect world. Of course this is not the case.

My point is don't look only at the pictures advertised on ebay. What you see, might not be what you get. Look at the whole picture, read how the item is advertised or marketed. If it is too good to be true, then it might not be true. Do research on the item about to be purchased, know what the real deal looks like and how it feels. Don't believe the sellers feedback, that can also be faked.

When many people state that a certain ebayer is selling fakes there is usually history of complaints to back up the claim. Many of the fake sellers keep on changing their ebay name and making bogus feedbacks, this could be done in just one day. Even with the changed name you can still spot them because their advertising or marketing is exactly the same, including their pictures. Since I wrote this the fake sellers might even smarten up a little after reading it.

Just my two cents worth of advice, take it or leave it is up to you.

Regard,

D-man

Also, the pictures on the ebay often are directly from YY website and not the picture of the real item. When in any doubt, don't buy from internet. My rule of thumb is to check out the goods before you hand over the money!

Thanks for your long post D-man - I have taken the advice here and bought from a reputable online dealer 'cause I don't want to take any risks with my money.

I disagree that people here don't just base their judgments on how a racket looks - some of them do exactly that, though not all. Basing it on how an ebayer markets it is not really reliable either, in my book as obviously someone could be an a veteran baddy player but not have a clue about how to sell something so could market it really badly.

You say that people mostly base judgments on photos AND marketing stuff AND ebay feedback or history but this is not always true....and those who aren't so careful and jump to conclusions based on just photos post here and then their opinion is seen by others and then some seller is branded a fake - it seems to happen a lot and it's really sad. I can see that osme people here are really careful and they are to be admired but there are also people here that seem to be so eager to show how great they are at spottign fakes that they just say it straight off.

I am happy 'cause I spotted my first fake in the rubbish stiff one my friend showed me but frustrated too that the majority of posters here seem to claim to have a clue and nto really. Even those who do have a clue are bound to get it wrong seomtimes and don't seem to care...and I don't think I have ever seen anyone say "oh right, i am wrong, I thought it was fake but I didn't look closely enough" which MUSt happen sometime.

sorry, I really should be doing something better with my Friday evenign than all this but I play tomorrow and I was hoping to have mroe tips for my nanospeed friends whose rackets are all different...

it seem newbie26 wanna doubt our ability to identifying fakes instead of searching BF with great resources and read up on various fakes.

Hi cooler - I do doubt the ability of some of you to doubt fakes, that's right. I've been open 'bout that.

I've also been open about the fact that I have taken advice crom here and searched the resources and read up abotu fakes.

Having done all that, I think it's fair enuff for me to say that I doubt the ability of some to spot fakes just from photos. It also seems to me that some people are likely to have been hard done by by people saying that they are "definitely" selling fakes when it's not possible to know for sure

I really do feel grateful for all the time people have taken in answering my threads and in putting threads up wiht warnigns and guidance and advice....really I do.

People don't like admitting that they are wrong, it is part of human nature.

Just let your friends know if they bought it from an authorized dealer then their racquets are legit.

I have a Cab 20 new version that has smudge lettering that was bought from a authorized dealer. A experienced player that is ranked in B division who strings many racquets for other people. Looked at my racquet and stated that he thinks it is a fake. He based it on the smudge lettering and that the butt cap was new gold logo on black. He never saw a butt cap with new gold logo on black before on a new racquet. Based on what he knows he informed me that my racquet was fake. I didn't correct him because he has a right to his opinion and I didn't want to prove him wrong in front of other people. No one likes getting proven wrong in public.

Same goes here on a public forum.

Cheers,

D-man

it seem newbie26 wanna doubt our ability to identifying fakes instead of searching BF with great resources and read up on various fakes.
seriously, the people here who identify counterfeits are not obligated to do so and if you're questioning our so called "wrong jugdment", then maybe you should start researching yourself and prove us wrong. i am pretty confident that i can spot a counterfeit racquet when i see one because they have imperfections and i have bever seen or heard of a 'perfectly' made counterfeit racquet but that may change in the near future.

It seem newbie26 declares himself as a noob in identifying fakes and yet he doubts and critizes of advices given here. His writing style keep coming from a seller prospective. If ur not reazvawda, u sure seem associated with reazvawda which is just as deceitful.

D man - you are exactly proving my point aswell, even an experienced player can make a mistake based on a tiny detail so there is nearly no reliable way of spotting a fake! I take your point that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but opinions expressed can also be libellous or slanderous if they damage someone's reputation without sufficient evidence so I am surprised at the ease and speed with which such potentially damaging opinions are expressed here.

ryim - I AM researching myself and I do see proof that some of you are wrong. You say you are "pretty" confident, nto 100% which is fine but then saying things are "definitely" fakes (which I am not saying you did because I can't remember exactly who said what) is just irresponsible

I am pointing this out 'cause I think people should have a think about it and also 'cause I am trying to find out more about spottign fakes. The more I hear, the more I think it is very very far from being an exact science and so I am sticking to authorised dealers which is exactly the advice given here - thanks for that!

why do you think I am reazvawda?
I am NOT a seller and don't know him/her/it and WON'T buy from that ebay shop either 'cause I just can't be sure about it.

Yes I am new at spottign fakes but have done research here as suggested so have some confdience now that it's fair to say that spottign fakes from photos alone is at best imperfect and at worst rarely reliable.

I am entitled to my opinion just as you are and having read a LOT here, I think it's perfectly legit for me to say that I think soem of you are sometimes wrong. SOme of you sometimes jump to conclusions.

Cooler - you were really helpful and patient with me on my first thread :) don't desert me now! I just want to open debate and I'm not saying anyoen here would say something was fake to be mean...I can see you are trying to protect baddy players from beign duped. :) Just seems that no consideration is given to baddy lovers who may also sell stuff :(

ryim - I AM researching myself and I do see proof that some of you are wrong. You say you are "pretty" confident, nto 100% which is fine but then saying things are "definitely" fakes (which I am not saying you did because I can't remember exactly who said what) is just irresponsible


if u had indeed read all the threads, show us the post(s) and name(s) who made the mistake(s)! Don't just gloss over it by saying it's 'some of you'. It is even more irresponsible accusing 'some' here of making mistakes WITHOUT PROOF. When we give our advice on fakes, we do not hide ourselves.

I know your motive several threads ago but decline to devulge it.

why do you think I am reazvawda?
I am NOT a seller and don't know him/her/it and WON'T buy from that ebay shop either 'cause I just can't be sure abou tit.

Yes I am new at spottign fakes but have done research here as suggested so have some confdience now that it's fair to say that spottign fakes from photos alone is at best imperfect and at worst rarely reliable.

I am entitled to my opinion just as you are and having read a LOT here, I think it's perfectly legit for me to say that I think soem of you are sometimes wrong. SOme of you sometimes jump to conclusions.

where is your proof? show me the money.

There is no BF member here with a user name 'Some of you'

Cooler - my motive at this stage is to open debate and learn more.

I am being vague about who jumps to conclusions and who doesn't 'cause i can't remember who from all the stuff I've read and I don't want to make false or mistaken accusations...

what proof do you want? About what? I don't know how I can prove I am not reazvawda.

I think the thread about spot the fakes gives ample proof that people here can make a mistake and do make mistakes. I don't want to name names 'cause I don't think it's fair - of course people make mistakes 'cause it's too hard to tell from photos if somethign is fake 100% of the time...

Cooler - my motive at this stage is to open debate and learn more.

I am being vague about who jumps to conclusions and who doesn't 'cause i can't remember who from all the stuff I've read and I don't want to make false or mistaken accusations...

what proof do you want? About what? I don't know how I can prove I am not reazvawda.

I think the thread about spot the fakes gives ample proof that people here can make a mistake and do make mistakes. I don't want to name names 'cause I don't think it's fair - of course people make mistakes 'cause it's too hard to tell from photos if somethign is fake 100% of the time...

if u do see some of us make mistakes identifying fakes (still waiting proof), why bother to pretend to be a noob buyer or learning to identifying fakes? U seem to possess advance skills to differentiate who's making the mistakes in identifying fakes. Someone without knowledge of fakes shouldn't and can't tells who is making mistakes on identifying fakes. I still say your perceived to be motive is fake.

I am not advanced - I know some of you make mistakes from the thread that silentheart directed me to - the one where people were asked to "spot the fake" - they were all real rackets and yet people made all sorts of guesses despite close up photos :confused:

That's my evidence that people on here make mistakes.

You accuse me of not reading threads properly but it seems you don't either 'cause I am sure that i mentioned this already on this thread. Let's be friends :) and not fight. What is it that I am sayign that you disagree with? :confused:

Just to say - I will be gone soon today 'cause the library I am using the compyter in is closing but I will come back when I can...not running away, honest :p . I may have time for one more post....before they kick my ass out of here! :D

I am not advanced - I know some of you make mistakes from the thread that silentheart directed me to - the one where people were asked to "spot the fake" - they were all real rackets and yet people made all sorts of guesses despite close up photos :confused:

That's my evidence that people on here make mistakes.

You accuse me of not reading threads properly but it seems you don't either 'cause I am sure that i mentioned this already on this thread. Let's be friends :) and not fight. What is it that I am sayign that you disagree with? :confused:

Just to say - I will be gone soon today 'cause the library I am using the compyter in is closing but I will come back when I can...not running away, honest :p . I may have time for one more post....before they kick my ass out of here! :D
well, if u say u had read up on threads about fakes, u should know who gave reliable advices and who is having fun guessing.

next time you feel that people made a mistake and that $50 NS9000 on Ebay is real, you can make a killing by buying 100 of them and reselling at a handsome profit since you say they're genuine :p

For the photos of Reazvawda's racquets, there were some serious questions raised by them, especially the SP /Sunrise coded ones. This was apart from the unusually low price (especially after taking into account 17.5% VAT + shipping to UK).

Anyway, he should be getting confirmation from Yonex UK soon about their authenticiy or lack of....

Hi Newbie26,

I pointed out that post to show you that we can make mistake in id real as a fake. We are human after all. However, if you read other posts where pictures of fake are posted, you will see most of the experienced members are right on. Cooler has a pair of good eyes and experience. From what I have read before, all the post with fake are id one way or another. I would like to ask you (newbie26) to search and read other posts and use those as advices and gain experience in spotting theose fakes. Also, photo can often play tricks on you. I can tell you that the pictures of the same item taken with my Nikon D70s will look different than a picture taken by a Canon 20D or 300D.

I would like to ask you a question, other than the little excercise Sir DinkALot challenged us, is there any other post we miss id the fake?

Good luck on your quest.

Cooler has a pair of good eyes and experience.

And what about the others members such as us (like me for example)? :D

Hi Matt - you seem good at spotting fakes! :)

I have found Cooler to be a bit aggressive here and I am a bit scared of him now! ;)

As a newbie, I don't think I would be able to trawl thru posts and fine where others have made mistakes :o which is why I kept going back to Dinkalot's post. Anyway, my point is not really to name names and point fingers or make accusations. Silentheart says there that photos can be deceiving and look differetn depending on the camera which is, of course true so my main point to make here is that making an absolute judgement about someone's goods based on photos is unreliable. I won't be taking risks and it seems you guys don't take risks either - if it's from someone you haven't heard of, it's cheap and it's on ebay you'll say it's fake in most cases...and maybe that's as good a way as any to weed out the fakes! ;)

I don't want to keep going back to reazvawda's stuff - I don't think the photos are good enough quality to tell anything one way or another! :eek: To be honest though, I don't think I saw any "serious questions" raised about them, storkbill...mostly just "yeah, ha ha they're fake" without any questions! ;) I doubt he'll come bakc either 'cause now you guys have all said they are fake, you are not going to change your minds - u'd just say any proof he provided, if he could provide proof, was fake too! :D Anyway, enough of that guy - he's gone!

I hope people will be really careful before saying anything is definitely a fake here...based on fuzzy photos or whatever.

I don't want to keep going back to reazvawda's stuff - I don't think the photos are good enough quality to tell anything one way or another! :eek: To be honest though, I don't think I saw any "serious questions" raised about them, storkbill...mostly just "yeah, ha ha they're fake" without any questions! ;)

I don't get it, are you now saying that you are as good as the 'experts' in BC in spotting fakes? Just because you don't see the problem in the pics doesn't mean others can't. At least 2 of the SP coded racquets raised a big question mark for me. Matt and Cooler are perhaps not as familiar with SP racquets so I think they base their conclusion on other factors.

And what about the others members such as us (like me for example)? :D

Sorry, I thought that was a known fact...:D

newbie26, i know your motive, it's too obvious just like id'ing fake rackets and I dun like fakes.

Yes cooler - you know my motive - it was to open up debate and to learn more. You haven't been very helpful in either case, sadly, 'cause you're so convinced you're right that I have some secret, evil motive. I don't. Not even a little bit.

Thanks to all the helpful people who have stimulated and responded to debate on this thread.

cheers,
newbie26

Hmmm... It seems to me like "cooler" has lost his "cool" :) while newbie26 has managed to keep it throughout all the verbal attacks. Hehe...

Come on, guys! Don't let your ego ruin the friendly discussion. It's nice of the knowledgeable guys to give their advices on fake and real rackets. But what's this thing about getting all defensive and demanding the doubter to prove that you're wrong? You gave a useful advice, and while he appreciates it, it's also normal that he has some doubts. Don't get mad and ask for proof that your "it's fake" statement is wrong. In fact, it's the one who made the statement who has to provide proof.

That's all folks! Smile!!!

just looked at the "spot the fake" messages - it completely proves what i am trying to say here - NONE OF YOU CAN REALLY TELL FROM PHOTOS IF A RACKET IS A FAKE OR NOT! (unless it's a really obvious fake...like one I saw that said Yinex :lol: !) Sorry for caps but it's driving me mad - you all seem to be so sure and yet it seems impossible.



This is a public discussion forum, and ppl here just present what his/her point of view. Regarding identify fakes, the ones giving advice in a consistent basis, are mostly fairly knowledgeable in this category with good intention. However, no one can be perfect, and none of us can always be right.

Therefore, you are the one make the judgement whether and how much you believe and willing to take the advice. If you don't think you have enough knowledge, or get confused about some comments, better stay away from this particular deal. Shopping with reputable local dealers could be a safe approach.

Things like, "I want to save 20%", plus "I don't want to take risk", plus "hey, you told me xxx or yyy, so, you have to be 100% sure, otherwise, I will flame you later" it's not likely to happen or be accepted by the public. :cool:

bottom line
if you can correctly spot 80% of the fake out there
you have 80% chacnes of saving yrself from getting scamed
if you have 0 abilities of spoting fakes
then i wish you good luck
its not too hard "for the most of it" and there are more then enough
info already listed on this forumn on "What" area to look out for
when you are trying to spot fakes
So ask yourself one questions, what is there for you to lose by at least Try to learn and filter out obvious fakes.

p.s. if the fake/real challenges are easy to spot, it wouldn't be a "Challenge"