Can Lin Dan win the Beijing gold? [Archive] - Page 2 - Badminton Central Discussion Forums

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Rachel Wood

05-27-2008, 04:16 AM

All England 2006
LD vs KJ, LCW & LHI

Rachel Wood

05-27-2008, 04:37 AM

Not sure whether Lin Dan can overcome the pressure during the olympics. He usually loses in big big tournaments. Lee Chong Wei will be a threat to Lin Dan.

LD won WC twice and AE (3 times):D. isn't it big enough?

Rachel Wood

05-27-2008, 04:38 AM

The reason I dont think LD can win GOLD is from history

NONE of the MS NUMBER 1 seat since 1992 has won the GOLD!

and since 1992 only 3 countries had ever win the Olympics gold:D

Rachel Wood

05-27-2008, 04:43 AM

based on history, no chance for Mal, Kor, Jpn, Tha, S'pore and etc to win OG

AlanY

05-27-2008, 04:45 AM

based on history, no chance for Mal, Kor, Jpn, Tha, S'pore and etc to win OG
there is always a first for everything!

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 05:04 AM

if BWF make a polling about which one more prestigious, AG or SS, here is the result:
CH : SS
CJ : SS
CY : SS
KJ : SS
PGC : SS
SDK : SS
PSH : SS
Roslin : SS
SSM : SS

for sure non-Asian players will vote for SS,
even several top Asian players whom can't participate in AG will vote for SS

Not sure about that...you can ask them.
In this case...Commonwealth Games will be meaningless too...tell Ian Thorpe threw away his all medals...hehe

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 05:06 AM

if BWF make a polling about which one more prestigious, AG or SS, here is the result:
CH : SS
CJ : SS
CY : SS
KJ : SS
PGC : SS
SDK : SS
PSH : SS
Roslin : SS
SSM : SS

for sure non-Asian players will vote for SS,
even several top Asian players whom can't participate in AG will vote for SS

thats very funny....in this case..pls ask All asian players which one is better...Asian Games or Commonwealth Games..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 05:24 AM

and since 1992 only 3 countries had ever win the Olympics gold:D

There are 4 countries , not 3;

China : 8 medals
Indonesia and Korea: 5 each
Denmark: 1 ( I believe)

koo_fan

05-27-2008, 05:46 AM

Miss rachel,u seems too depend on history and past records.
If thats the way,i guess kkk/tbh wont appeared last year.
They are down now,but they are once an immediate champion.

koo_fan

05-27-2008, 05:50 AM

There are 4 countries , not 3;

China : 8 medals
Indonesia and Korea: 5 each
Denmark: 1 ( I believe)
Good for denmark.but,who is the medalist?

AlanY

05-27-2008, 05:51 AM

There are 4 countries , not 3;

China : 8 medals
Indonesia and Korea: 5 each
Denmark: 1 ( I believe)
totalling 19, 1 missing somewhere?

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 05:53 AM

Good for denmark.but,who is the medalist?
Paul Erik Hoyer Larsen..defeating Dong Jiong in 1996....I was there..
If I remembered correctly..rashid Sidek gor bronze defeating Hariyanto Arbi

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 05:55 AM

totalling 19, 1 missing somewhere?
In 1992..there is no mixed double...INA got MS and WS and KOR got MD and WD,,first time that China did not get any gold, only 1 silver...

AlanY

05-27-2008, 05:57 AM

Good for denmark.but,who is the medalist?
Atlanta 1996 Badmintonsingles Menhttp://www.olympic.org/common/images/common/picto_medal_gold.gif http://www.olympic.org/common/images/organisation/noc/flags/DEN_flag.gif (http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/noc/noc_uk.asp?noc_initials=DEN)HOYER-LARSEN, Poul Erik

crashandburn

05-27-2008, 05:59 AM

Yes, Lin Dan can win OG 2008.

But he won't ....because it will be too much pressure on him (and other top 5 players) and other players will have more motivation to win it.

My prediction it will be someone like Kuncoro or Bunsak or those outside top 5 players.

I am hoping I am wrong so that LCW/TH will win it..!!

AlanY

05-27-2008, 06:03 AM

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 06:06 AM

:D
i dont believe that anyone outside the current top 4 will have any chance at all.
Hm,.,dark horses: PSH, LHI, Boonsak...may be Sony...:D:D honestly PSH will be a dangerous player to watch even LYB admitted it...well....Upset will happe in OG 08....dont know who will beat who...cant wait!!

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 06:09 AM

i dont believe that anyone outside the current top 4 will have any chance at all.

I think only, history shows that only Paul of Denmark was in the Top4 when he won the GOLD. Even Taufik was seeded 8th when he won it...:cool:

badMania

05-27-2008, 06:10 AM

I can't think of what will happen if Lin Dan fails to win the coveted Olympic Gold Medals in Beijing.

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 06:12 AM

I can't think of what will happen if Lin Dan fails to win the coveted Olympic Gold Medals in Beijing.

He will probably end up selling Yong Tau fu in Ampang! :D

samuel882

05-27-2008, 06:50 AM

In this sense..winning Thomas Cup/Uber cup are meaningless too......:p:cool::cool: especially China teams show up once in 2 year...:rolleyes:
The TC/UC gold medals certainly was meaningless to CHINA as LD/XXF /BCL & LeeYB:eek: donated it for auctions in charity for Szechuan victims . RMB 1 million each!:eek:

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 06:57 AM

Here's how I see it:
Favourite - Lin Dan: For a variety of reasons has to be favourite to win the tournament. Lin Dan is a strong accurate player, with the best power game. His only game weaknesses are he is exploitable at the net and a weak reverse backhand, which you hardly ever see.

Main challenger: LCW - Synopsis: LCW has a slight edge over LD if it goes head to head, but is less likely to make it to the final. But these two are streets ahead of everyone else.

For all his strengths, he (LD) can be beaten and I don't think he is the best player around. I think if LCW plays as he did for the first set of the TC encounter he can take LD no problem no matter LD's game plan. Straight games. This requires a workhorse approach keeping LD working with no time to pick his winners. This requires fast clears and sharp drops - mainly pinning Lin Dan to a side - no crosscourt clearing especially not to LD's backhand, as that will lose him the point: it is more work to cover a straight lift followed by drop on a side than to run the diagonal, plus because you're reversing direction at the 'base' it gives your opponent less time to unleash the heavy smash. Leave Lin Dan the risk of attempting to crosscourt: Chong Wei's defence is good enough, and he won't try too many crosscourts from his forehand, as if LCW gets anything on it, it's going down the line (LD's backhand). The only time LCW should crosscourt is on attempted kills from midcourt and occasionally at net. But mainly, not give LD the time to react: play the front court agressively: no lifts from net, straight in and kill the shuttle . Second set LCW reverted to type a bit but still won.

The other area LCW can exploit is bodysmashing LD which is so under-rated. He nailed LD there loads of times. The best thing about a body smash is even if it comes back, it is hard to get it into open court, whereas you can at least try to do more with a smash at the lines. Key is speed (less deceptive drops and net) and using speed to take the initiative, athleticism to get airtime to get sharper attacks leaving LD having to scramble shuttles from the floor. Drops are the main killer weapon here, not smashes. Where LCW gets in trouble normally is playing with poor shot selection - too many crosscourt lifts forehand to backhand clear especially. LD anticipates them well, and rifles a straight smash onto the line round the head (his best shot), or simply wrongfoots Lee by going back the way it came. The proof is that LCW concedes most points against LD down his backhand side, by far. Check the stats, see eg AE semis where Lin Dan won in 3 old-scoring. Considering the converse is not true (50:50). Lin Dan is a nightmare because he's huge and got a great jump, he'd be an awesome basketball player. I think it's actually easier for him to pick his spot for a crosscourt lift because a crosscourt takes more time to reach the back line and crosses LD'S base position. But if LCW plays the percentages and avoids the crosscourt he can work LD to death. Most players just can't keep LD working, because they get caught too often - LD can score a lot of points within three strokes and walk away from his opponent, especially in 21 points. LCW can move faster, and keep LD working harder than he wants to. Deny him the opportunity to score quick points and his confidence will go.

The only problem i see with this is temprament. Lin Dan being a volatile guy is his strength:) when he gets wronged, his attitude is 'Ill show you' he doesn't get discouraged. Like a badminton Roy Keane. A bit like a badminton MacEnroe as well, in that he turns it on and off :cool: (he gets angry like against LHI in the Korean open, 'vents' a bit: then asks his opponent 'what do you think about that call' (Well if I was LHI I would feel a bit guilty - hence a bit less likely to fight - he actually played better after he got pissed off, with better focus, in that occasion, but the tiebreak is a lottery and LHI hung on) LCW pressures himself, on occasion, and his mindset at times seems to be of 'wanting to please': to do well for other people. Successful sportsmen like LD and Taufik don't care less about that: they create their own 'mystique'. When LD loses he acts like it is normal and he's playing games. Of course sometimes he is:eek:, when LCW loses it's obvious how much he cares, IMO, whilst LCW is respected as a player by his peers, he doesn't get under their skin as much as he should. He should aim to be a Borg of badminton: show less emotion in keeping with his rally style. Then he would depress his peers, save ten impossible shots and look like 'hey that was easy' and make his opponent think (I can't get to this guy:crying:):). Mind you, i like it that he cares but that's only because it reminds me of me.

I think the olympics factor will even up the stress factor: in a super series event, i'd back lin dan to win, because that's like his backyard, in TC i'd back LCW because LD is nervous having to play for more than himself. LCW is nervous too but it factors less because he's about as nervous as he can be most of the time i think! Same for olympics. People like Taufik handle it better because they genuinely see it the same as any other match than people like LD.

Also, LCW is usually a bit more nervous, he's also not a great thinker within a game, if his opponent pulls out a few surprises i.e. Chen Jin caught him cold at the AE this year, just by lifting from net all the time and then anicipating a dropshot, having found that CW was fast enough to negate even his old-fashioned clearing game he tried at the French open. LCW kept falling into the trap, and doing the dropshot, then getting caught. Or when he played Boonsak recently. LD is brighter than the average bear: :cool: as the saying goes and thinks on his feet: LCW is disciplined and brave but relies heavily on his coaches. That's a big problem.

I reckon LD will win, though, I'd prefer lcw to win. :p I just think that LD's 'street smarts' give him a chance in a one on one match up, just offsetting LCW's super-speed and sharp drops, (his new weapon-mmmmm upgrades!!!:eek:) but IMO it's very possible it goes either way.:D LCW is the better of the two, but I fear that a smart challenger like CJ or perhaps PSH could nail him before the final, unless he specifically has a good tactics. (I'm also assuming the Chinese armada will have orders to lose gently against LD:p)

The Challengers

LD's Nemeses: PSH, LHI (I'm paranoid and leaving out Team China opponents) and the Indonesian lads Simon and Sony all do decently against Lin Dan. Sony has the potential to genuinely upset LD, he usually narrowly loses though. He's a good all around player. Park has a positive head-to-head, but Lin Dan is frankly superior, Park does well because of his good netplay. Lee HI has the capacity to be a real pain, with his defensive abilities plus a seriously nasty left handed smash.

Taufik isn't as up for it and he has to play such a perfect game to hide his lack of stamina these days: I'd bet my house on him if it was a 5 point match though against LD! Gade's back to somewhere near a decent level, but he's fundamentally unsuited to beat Lin Dan, even when he was on his game, Lin Dan is the anti-Gade and I think Gade's won only one in a lot of attempts.

LCW's nemeses: Himself (randomly playing awfully), CY is a massive threat because his netplay is so good, his clears so strong, and he is the most attacking of the Chinese, he's fast and fit enough to cope and he has the potential to slow LCW down and dictate. BCL (awkward, tall, good at netplay enough to offset Lee's speed, good athlete), CJ if he gets his act together and finds the right gameplan. I reckon he's fast enough to beat the Indonesians and recently this would be borne out by evidence. Wierdly, Taufik has a chance I think against Lee but only if he can get the job done in 2 games. He really ought to have won the first game in the AE quarter final. LCW can sort out Park in two, and LHI in three but they aren't as much a threat to LCW as they are speed based players. Nobody else is good enough.

Wannabe's:

Sure Sato is fast enough, I think he's the fastest of all, but he hasn't got enough firepower - uses his speed well to get to the shuttle but won't cause LCW any trouble. Lin Dan would hump him off the court, no problem, just smashes are enough.

Boonsak is good, but won't get past LD when he's in the mood, or LCW, i think the last defeat by LCW is the exception that proves the rule.

Jonassen isn't fast enough at the very top level. LCW would annihilate him, as would Lin Dan, Wacha is unsound technically at the very top level, he's not capable of upseting a top 5 player who is concentrating.

I'm looking at the rest and there's such a huge gulf between the likes of Wong CH and the likes of Bao Chunlai.

Damn this is long:) just my opinions.

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 07:19 AM

I'm looking at the rest and there's such a huge gulf between the likes of Wong CH and the likes of Bao Chunlai.

Damn this is long:) just my opinions.

Uncle WOng will wint eh OG GOLD!

AlanY

05-27-2008, 08:11 AM

LCW has a slight edge over LD if it goes head to head, but is less likely to make it to the final. But these two are streets ahead of everyone else.

how comes that the two are streets ahead but unlikely to meet in the final!

AlanY

05-27-2008, 08:29 AM

For all his strengths, he (LD) can be beaten and I don't think he is the best player around.
being the world no 1 for the last 3 years and won more tournaments than anyone else is the best player in my book. interested to know what is your definition for the best player?

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 08:33 AM

being the world no 1 for the last 3 years and won more tournaments than anyone else is the best player in my book. interested to know what is your definition for the best player?

He is the best in the world...

the ranking shows it

the tournament shows it...

But he is not invincible...
:o

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 10:54 AM

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 10:59 AM

Look at the super series: Favourites are favourites, but don't always win.
Statistics don't favour (even a hugely) dominant favourite.

There was a good article about it (but about football) saying that Brazil were rightly favourites but wouldn't be likely to win the workd cup (their odds were 1 in 4 ish).

I dont think anyone say LD can 100% win OG but his chances is the highest!

If anyone say LD 100% will win OG, sure he would sell his house, car, wife, children and dogs to bet on LD to win.

That's what I called 100% sure... :D

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 10:59 AM

Lin Dan deserves the favourite tag.
He is the favourite because he can 'unlock' more of the top ten players than the others, there are fewer top 10's he will struggle with.
One of the Malaysia's singles coaches said about being world no.1 you need to have the game to beat most players to get in the top 20 or so., but breaking through to the no.1 spot requires you to systematically find a plan and train specifically towards beating the top 10.

However......

cooler

05-27-2008, 11:00 AM

Not sure about that...you can ask them.
In this case...Commonwealth Games will be meaningless too...tell Ian Thorpe threw away his all medals...hehe
who is Ian thrope, is he a badminton player? ???:rolleyes::p

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 11:04 AM

However Lin Dan has been dominant because to date his physical capabilities have been far better than his rivals... He hasn't had to really think 'meta-tactically' - most of his career has been spent in an era where most of his rivals are spent forces, or dwindling, or just not as good. Gade was better before LD, LD missed the best of Taufik's era, and the rest are so so. Now Chong Wei is getting his act together. I think his game's improved enough to mess lin dan up with the right tactics.

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 11:05 AM

If LCW has matured enough he should beat Lin Dan one-on-one. It would be good for the sport too

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 11:07 AM

It's a big if tho. And in a way i think LD will stay world no.1 for the forseeable future, because he can beat more top 10's than LCW.

Head to head, i think LCW can start winning more of their encounters....

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 11:10 AM

I suppose you're right though I did say LCW was bettewr than Lin Dan. I meant head to head I reckon he should win, and also that he can do more stuff than Lin Dan. He is a more 'complete' player IMO.....
But... Lin Dan's strengths are so strong!

AlanY

05-27-2008, 11:11 AM

let's put it this way, you're in a hot air balloon 3000m up and asked to pick the MS winner of 2008 OG. if you got it wrong you're out of the basket, who will you pick?

it will be LD for me.

cooler

05-27-2008, 11:19 AM

yes, LD will experience high pressure at the OG but i say LCW faces pressure equally if not more. The entire nation malaysia badminton is hoping and riding on LCW for national glory as their MD, XD, WS, WD are all shakey. I wonder who will KKK train with, tbh or one of the uninjured uncle. Fuzzy look good in TC but they are green in term of olympic pressure. Sorry choo choo but i think u won't make it pass the SF. So, the pressure is on LCW to carry all of malayisa's hope and pride is super high.

As for LD, he knows he has his comrades aiming at lcw as well. LD is just 1 of the 3 MS cats to win, he doesnt have to burden the entire nation's pressure. Home advantage is worth noting as chinese does do well in china, just like lcw does weill in MAL and LHI does well in Korea.

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 12:06 PM

Lin Dan to win if i had to pick a winner now (just because of the bodyguard factor)

But hopefully, LCW can

Makkem_1

05-27-2008, 12:07 PM

do a Jackie Chan on the other Chinese and get to the final,

then - watch out.

ye333

05-27-2008, 01:28 PM

LD is best in the sense that he is super-consistent at a very high level. But I still think TH's performance in OG04 and WC05 represents the highest level of MS after ZJH.

In fact, what's your opinion, ZJH or YY, who is better? I would say ZJH, although he has less titles than YY. On the other hand, if I need to guess a champion before an arbitrary tournament, I would choose YY because I have no idea how ZJH will perform.

being the world no 1 for the last 3 years and won more tournaments than anyone else is the best player in my book. interested to know what is your definition for the best player?

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 02:20 PM

who is Ian thrope, is he a badminton player? ???:rolleyes::p
OZ swimmer....a super swimmer....just like LD in badminton...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

cooler

05-27-2008, 02:26 PM

Not sure about that...you can ask them.
In this case...Commonwealth Games will be meaningless too...tell Ian Thorpe threw away his all medals...hehe

OZ swimmer....a super swimmer....just like LD in badminton...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
my question was my point.:p
commonwealth game, ahhhh, canada got lots of them:p even in badminton :p
problem is, we don't have 1 WC, OG, AE, TC/UC, SS medal in recent history.

cooler

05-27-2008, 02:28 PM

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 02:32 PM

LD is best in the sense that he is super-consistent at a very high level. But I still think TH's performance in OG04 and WC05 represents the highest level of MS after ZJH.

In fact, what's your opinion, ZJH or YY, who is better? I would say ZJH, although he has less titles than YY. On the other hand, if I need to guess a champion before an arbitrary tournament, I would choose YY because I have no idea how ZJH will perform.

pass and present players are hard to be compare...

But one thing is sure... LD has World No.1 for a very long time indeed.

That's show his consistency as well as ability to adapt to different tactics by improving opponents. :eek:

cooler

05-27-2008, 02:32 PM

If LCW has matured enough he should beat Lin Dan one-on-one. It would be good for the sport too
i had suggest skin format before. It would popularize badminton much much quicker. So the world the beef.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39263&highlight=skins

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 02:35 PM

i had suggest skin format before. It would popularize badminton much much quicker. So the world the beef.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39263&highlight=skins

Fantastic Idea!

The Prize money should be very attractive to make the Game very interesting!

But who will SPONSOR? ABRAHIMOVIC?????? :cool:

cooler

05-27-2008, 02:55 PM

Fantastic Idea!

The Prize money should be very attractive to make the Game very interesting!

But who will SPONSOR? ABRAHIMOVIC?????? :cool:i think sponsorship would be easy to obtain than other big tournaments since sponsors are getting the best bang for the buck. Costs is lower since no wasting costly shuttles, manpower, and stadium rental for qualifying rounds, 16, 32, QF, SF blah blah blah. Problem is, the first skin trial will be the hardest to bring to reality. It will be all meats, no buns or lettuces.

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 03:14 PM

i had suggest skin format before. It would popularize badminton much much quicker. So the world the beef.

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39263&highlight=skins
We have Copenhagen Master and before that Invitational Cup in the past...it did not help popularize the games much....

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 03:19 PM

This idea had been discussed among BWF members years ago...for whatever reasons...they did not proceed...

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 10:06 PM

We have Copenhagen Master and before that Invitational Cup in the past...it did not help popularize the games much....

I guess the prize money isnt that attrative...

If its like ONE MILLION DOLLAR...

with lot of build up promotion towards the game.... Like WWE!

Sure gonna be very POPULAR! :cool:

jimbo

05-27-2008, 10:16 PM

We have Copenhagen Master and before that Invitational Cup in the past...it did not help popularize the games much....

To popularize the badminton game, we need players like Sharapova and Ashley Harkleroad :D :p
http://justwoman.asiaone.com/Just%2BWoman/News/High%2BLife/Story/A1Story20080527-67147.html

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 11:12 PM

To popularize the badminton game, we need players like Sharapova and Ashley Harkleroad :D :p
http://justwoman.asiaone.com/Just%2BWoman/News/High%2BLife/Story/A1Story20080527-67147.html
There has been a talk to design sexier clothing for women players to popularize the sport....some players will not wear them ( I can confirm the players like Vita or Lyliana do not entertain this idea)...so it will be interesting to see how things develop.......also in badminton, we are lack of players with characters too....beside to increase more prize money to attract moe players to play professionally.....

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 11:17 PM

There has been a talk to design sexier clothing for women players to popularize the sport....some players will not wear them ( I can confirm the players like Vita or Lyliana do not entertain this idea)...so it will be interesting to see how things develop.......also in badminton, we are lack of players with characters too....beside to increase more prize money to attract moe players to play professionally.....

Sexy is not the right way to promote BADMINTON!

Increasing the Prize money will definately do.... :eek:

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 11:20 PM

Sexy is not the right way to promote BADMINTON!

Increasing the Prize money will definately do.... :eek:
Some look at that way.....anyway...it is not me to suggest that idea...must be from some influential parties....I heard it again during TC/UC....lets see what happen.....and the players will decide whats good and comfortable for them to wear......;)

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 11:21 PM

My goodness..I guess all of us are OFF topic now....hehe

SibugiChai

05-27-2008, 11:48 PM

Some look at that way.....anyway...it is not me to suggest that idea...must be from some influential parties....I heard it again during TC/UC....lets see what happen.....and the players will decide whats good and comfortable for them to wear......;)

To make it a must to wear sexy is outrages but if any players want to wear it sexy... let them do individually not as a RULES! :cool:

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 11:49 PM

To make it a must to wear sexy is outrages but if any players want to wear it sexy... let them do individually not as a RULES! :cool:
I do not think they will make it a must...it will be ridiculous....;)

cooler

05-27-2008, 11:50 PM

not that easy, sponsor like yonex will have a say too.

huangkwokhau

05-27-2008, 11:56 PM

not that easy, sponsor like yonex will have a say too.
Thats right..thats why they are talking to Yonex... I heard that Yonex was planning to design more attractive apparel too...

cooler

05-28-2008, 12:04 AM

Thats right..thats why they are talking to Yonex... I heard that Yonex was planning to design more attractive apparel too...

:eek:they are taking the bunnies to a new level

with skirt, sleeveless, short shorts, i wonder what yonex can do to glam up the gals:confused::D One area might be shorten the shirts in the torso area (exposing the belly more, and/or lower the neck line).

When that happen, i will term them as 'Playball Bunnies':)

cooler

05-28-2008, 12:09 AM

Mods, i think post 294 and onward are more suited in this thread
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=284078&highlight=attractive#post284078

koo_fan

05-28-2008, 01:30 AM

Fantastic Idea!

The Prize money should be very attractive to make the Game very interesting!

But who will SPONSOR? ABRAHIMOVIC?????? :cool:
Abramovich used almost 100 millioon tthis season to keep chelsea in the line winning a title.
What happen?

he sacked maurinho not in the right time with a wrong way.
Literally speaking,it is strategy who will have u move forward or backward.

Money is a factor.But strategy is the main one.see how my manchester united charmed the world?

off-topic.But i speak my mind.Money wont guarantee badminton will have widespread international media coverage in future.

SibugiChai

05-28-2008, 04:07 AM

Abramovich used almost 100 millioon tthis season to keep chelsea in the line winning a title.
What happen?

he sacked maurinho not in the right time with a wrong way.
Literally speaking,it is strategy who will have u move forward or backward.

Money is a factor.But strategy is the main one.see how my manchester united charmed the world?

off-topic.But i speak my mind.Money wont guarantee badminton will have widespread international media coverage in future.

If not for Abrahimovic money chealse would have been figthing for relegation.

Money makes wonder...

Try raising every tournament prize money to 1million USD. In no time Badminton will be as popular as Tennis...

No money Badminton go back to the back yard sports! :confused:

AlanY

05-28-2008, 04:07 AM

Lin Dan to win if i had to pick a winner now (just because of the bodyguard factor)

But hopefully, LCW can
yes, they will be another factor. not quite sure how they work out the seedings in olympics, if they based on the latest ranking and assuming they stay as it is. if i'm LYB, unless LD is injury or so out of form, that will be a wallover by CJ. and i'll make sure BCL tire out LCW as much as he can. it will be so unfair to CJ, but he is only 22. his turn will come 4 years later then some youngster may return the favour.

AlanY

05-28-2008, 04:12 AM

LD is best in the sense that he is super-consistent at a very high level. But I still think TH's performance in OG04 and WC05 represents the highest level of MS after ZJH.

In fact, what's your opinion, ZJH or YY, who is better? I would say ZJH, although he has less titles than YY. On the other hand, if I need to guess a champion before an arbitrary tournament, I would choose YY because I have no idea how ZJH will perform.
i watched ZJH won his first AE at 18 or 19 beaten MF. that stayed in my head and forever my hero.

SibugiChai

05-28-2008, 04:13 AM

yes, they will be another factor. not quite sure how they work out the seedings in olympics, if they based on the latest ranking and assuming they stay as it is. if i'm LYB, unless LD is injury or so out of form, that will be a wallover by CJ. and i'll make sure BCL tire out LCW as much as he can. it will be so unfair to CJ, but he is only 22. his turn will come 4 years later then some youngster may return the favour.

LCW got UNCLE wong to help out too!

:cool: LCW to win.... WMC to win... KKK/TBh to win...

Malaysia b0l3h

cooler

05-28-2008, 12:15 PM

i watched ZJH won his first AE at 18 or 19 beaten MF. that stayed in my head and forever my hero.
u should watch the AE final when ZJH waxed joko suprianto;)
that one stuck in my mind;)

ye333

05-28-2008, 03:20 PM

Don't you think Joko played "lamely" in that final? ;)

u should watch the AE final when ZJH waxed joko suprianto;)
that one stuck in my mind;)

ye333

05-28-2008, 03:20 PM

Unfortunately ZJH was already 20 when he won AE. :(

i watched ZJH won his first AE at 18 or 19 beaten MF. that stayed in my head and forever my hero.

koo_fan

05-28-2008, 11:40 PM

u should watch the AE final when ZJH waxed joko suprianto;)
that one stuck in my mind;)
Tell me apart of that game.
What make it so special?

SibugiChai

05-28-2008, 11:43 PM

u should watch the AE final when ZJH waxed joko suprianto;)
that one stuck in my mind;)

When ZJH selling chicken rice in singapore, that permanently stuck in my mind. :cool:

cooler

05-29-2008, 12:48 AM

When ZJH selling chicken rice in singapore, that permanently stuck in my mind. :cool:

there are 2 morals to this story:

1. some people like u are just too blur and only worry about their next meal.
2. the standard of badminton in china is so high such that even ZJH, whom many BF memebers considered him as one of the best, who pawned joko at 1990 AE to win the MS title, can't get a coaching job in china AND YET Joko Suprianto, the loser and totally owned by ZJH, became the head coach for INA. :p :cool:er

If u don't know, joko totally pawned malaysia's foo kwok kong in the semi final.
ie. MAL standard back then are......well, u got the drift

SibugiChai, pawned.:p

cooler

05-29-2008, 12:59 AM

Don't you think Joko played "lamely" in that final? ;)Nope, joko was very sharp that week. In the semi final, he totally waxed foo kwok kong, a #1 or #2 MAL MS player back then.

Nice try but u r making silly postulation, your common trait, without any substance nor hint of knowledge in historical event

taufik-ist

05-29-2008, 01:04 AM

there are 2 morals to this story:

2. the standard of badminton in china is so high such that even ZJH, whom many BF memebers considered him as one of the best, who pawned joko at 1990 AE to win the MS title, can't get a coaching job in china AND YET Joko Suprianto, the loser and totally owned by ZJH, became the head coach for INA. :p :cool:er

If u don't know, joko totally pawned malaysia's foo kwok kong in the semi final.
ie. MAL standard back then are......well, u got the drift

SibugiChai, pawned.:p

a good player won't always be a good coach .. joko never became ina's head coach :p... he was only a ms coach, he trained sony.. and ina's head coach was christian hadinata at that time :D

cooler

05-29-2008, 01:10 AM

a good player won't always be a good coach .. joko never became ina's head coach :p... he was only a ms coach, he trained sony.. and ina's head coach was christian hadinata at that time :Dyes, i stretch out my neck to say joko as head coach of the men singles but my point was made, he was given a coaching job in the national squad. To be a head of anything in INA, one has to be politically astute, and joko ain't that, that's why he quit.

cooler

05-29-2008, 01:24 AM

a good player won't always be a good coach ..
i know that, and i have made many posts arguing for that point.

However, ZJH was not even given a chance coach in jr or 2nd squad team.
I believed ZJH did a coaching stint in SG. If u dunno, there is a reason to explain how ronald susilo can beat LD in 04 OG, and it wasn't all due to LD cracking under pressure as most of u might think. To me, that is enough to say ZJH can be a very good coach, if not a very great coach.

SibugiChai

05-29-2008, 01:25 AM

SibugiChai, pawned.:p

Kekeke...

His Kai fan really sucks... closed down in less than a year!

The reason he doesnt coach China Badminton because it pay less than selling kai fan & too much politics.

Yang2 discourage her daugthers to take up badminton, instead he encourages them to take up GOLF!

Badminton doesnt pay! :cool:

cooler

05-29-2008, 01:29 AM

Kekeke...

His Kai fan really sucks... closed down in less than a year!

The reason he doesnt coach China Badminton because it pay less than selling kai fan & too much politics.

Yang2 discourage her daugthers to take up badminton, instead he encourages them to take up GOLF!

Badminton doesnt pay! :cool:u r talking from both side of your mouth: gai fan sucks and close down, and badminton coaching doesn't pay. Which one doesn't pay????

badminton doesn't pay, why dont u ask morten frost, li mao, park joo bong?
Maybe it doesn't pay for MAL coaches LOL Correct me if i'm wrong, i dont seem to bring up an ex-MAL pro who became a noted coach in foreign soil. Before u make fun of somebody's else chicken rice, look at yourself first LOL

huangkwokhau

05-29-2008, 01:30 AM

i know that, and i have made many posts arguing for that point.

However, ZJH was not even given a chance coach in jr or 2nd squad team.
I believed ZJH did a coaching stint in SG. If u dunno, there is a reason to explain how ronald susilo can beat LD in 04 OG, and it wasn't all due to LD cracking under pressure as most of u might think. To me, that is enough to say ZJH can be a very good coach, if not a very great coach.
There is a story why ZJH did not coach in China...just like Yang yang prefers to venture outside China.
Another example...han Jian prefers to have his own academy in Malaysia than in China...there is a reason behind it...

taufik-ist

05-29-2008, 01:31 AM

yes, i stretch out my neck to say joko as head coach of the men singles but my point was made, he was given a coaching job in the national squad. To be a head of anything in INA, one has to be politically astute, and joko ain't that, that's why he quit.

he didn't quit.. he got fired

huangkwokhau

05-29-2008, 01:36 AM

he didn't quit.. he got fired
Thats right!!.......another drama behind PBSI....;);)

SibugiChai

05-29-2008, 01:41 AM

There is a story why ZJH did not coach in China...just like Yang yang prefers to venture outside China.
Anotehr example...han Jian prefers to have his own academy in Malaysia than in China...there is a reason behind it...

China badminton is all politics...

Parents need to pay to get their children admitted into top sports school unless those really talented few! :cool:

cooler

05-29-2008, 01:46 AM

he didn't quit.. he got fired

Thats right!!.......another drama behind PBSI....;);)

Indonesian Badminton names new coach for men's singles

The Indonesian Badminton Association has named a former world champion as the new men's singles coach replacing Joko Supriyanto.

Hendrawan, the world champion in 2001, said Monday he is ready to take his new job at the national training camp in Cipayung, East Jakarta.

"Big challenges are facing us ahead and I have been asked to make things better than today," said Hendrawan, who was previously the coach for female shuttlers.

"I will do my best," he said.

Meanwhile, Joko said he resigned from the national training camp and refused a new job to coach female players.

"I resigned because I didn't feel comfortable with my new job to coach women's singles," Joko was quoted by the national Antara news agency as saying.

Source: Xinhua
-----------------
pbsi say joko was fired to save face.
even huangkwokhau hinted so....
taufik-ist please don't try to deceive members here on serious matter or else u r losing what littlle credibility u have

volcom

05-29-2008, 01:47 AM

China badminton is all politics...

Parents need to pay to get their children admitted into top sports school unless those really talented few! :cool:

Exactly but thats how China works... All about politics and getting on the right side of people for benefits.
You can get filthy rich by doing nothing and be very poor even though you've done everything you can. It's all about connections in China ;).

Like we crash into someones car, but the police tries to avoid doing anything because my friends parents are good beneficial friends with the head of the police office :p

cooler

05-29-2008, 01:59 AM

China badminton is all politics...

Parents need to pay to get their children admitted into top sports school unless those really talented few! :cool:

please dont promote discussion of one sided politics when MAL badminton has politics too. If u still dont get it, china does this because THEY GOT TOO MANY EAGER STUDENTS This alot better than Malaysia situation where they are short in talent pool.:rolleyes:

SibugiChai

05-29-2008, 02:12 AM

please dont promote discussion of one sided politics when MAL badminton has politics too. If u still dont get it, china does this because THEY GOT TOO MANY EAGER STUDENTS This alot better than Malaysia situation where they are short in talent pool.:rolleyes:

Msia the same too... but not as bad as CHina...
If you are good but noone "PROMOTE" you... dont dream to get into national team

taufik-ist

05-29-2008, 02:18 AM

Indonesian Badminton names new coach for men's singles

The Indonesian Badminton Association has named a former world champion as the new men's singles coach replacing Joko Supriyanto.

Hendrawan, the world champion in 2001, said Monday he is ready to take his new job at the national training camp in Cipayung, East Jakarta.

"Big challenges are facing us ahead and I have been asked to make things better than today," said Hendrawan, who was previously the coach for female shuttlers.

"I will do my best," he said.

Meanwhile, Joko said he resigned from the national training camp and refused a new job to coach female players.

"I resigned because I didn't feel comfortable with my new job to coach women's singles," Joko was quoted by the national Antara news agency as saying.

Source: Xinhua
-----------------
pbsi say joko was fired to save face.
even huangkwokhau hinted so....
taufik-ist please don't try to deceive members here on serious matter or else u r losing what littlle credibility u have

i didn't deceive any mamber here :rolleyes:.. how about u ?:rolleyes:

limsy

05-29-2008, 03:44 AM

Maybe it doesn't pay for MAL coaches LOL Correct me if i'm wrong, i dont seem to bring up an ex-MAL pro who became a noted coach in foreign soil. Before u make fun of somebody's else chicken rice, look at yourself first LOL

how about tan kim her???...^^...but anyway...a good coach not always a good player...

jimbo

05-29-2008, 04:48 AM

huangkwokhau

05-29-2008, 04:50 AM

jimbo

05-29-2008, 04:52 AM

agan...Joko was not head of coach...he was MS coach...pls note!
Christian hadinata is still head of coach

Noted. I'm suprised that his head was not on the chopping board after 0-3 hammered by KOR in TC. If this is EPL, I'm sure... errr... ;)

huangkwokhau

05-29-2008, 04:54 AM

Noted. I'm suprised that his head was not on the chopping board after 0-3 hammered by KOR in TC. If this is EPL, I'm sure... errr... ;)
we are a bit civilized......;)

SibugiChai

05-29-2008, 05:21 AM

Noted. I'm suprised that his head was not on the chopping board after 0-3 hammered by KOR in TC. If this is EPL, I'm sure... errr... ;)

I belib INA top priority is Olympic...

Thomas Cup just happen to be there, so PBSI dun wanna make changes to avoid distrubition to OG preparation! :cool:

huangkwokhau

05-30-2008, 07:13 AM

to judge someone is the best by one event only, it's JXP!
to judge someone is the best in overall (within 100 events), it's LD!
Yes..WINSTON-T...........at the end is all about LD......
You are the same person that arguing AG is useless.....

limsy

05-30-2008, 08:11 AM

Yes..WINSTON-T...........at the end is all about LD......
You are the same person that arguing AG is useless.....

haha...just ignore him/her...

limsy

05-30-2008, 08:16 AM

in OG, it can accommodate more top 20 players compare to AG

oh ya???...please count out ur another top 20 TOP PLAYERS didnt in AG???...

denmark 2 ms and 2 md,england 1 xd,poland 1 md 1 xd...europe 3 ws...

anymore???...give fact and that will sound...not just keep saying without evidence...

ctjcad

05-30-2008, 10:41 AM

huangkwokhau

05-30-2008, 10:47 AM

...the last few posts, between Hau-ge and Rachel Wood, have been somewhat entertaining....It's like reading an argument between a boyfriend/husband and girlfriend/wife (granted Rachel Wood is a female member)..;)
Trust me..Rachel Wood is not a female..HE IS WINSTON_T....same guy..same argument that ends up great LD and all chinese players...;)..look at Winstons' post...same style..

cooler

05-30-2008, 10:47 AM

I didnt know Joko was the head coach of INA for MS, and he certainly did a very poor job. None of his players (Sony/Taufik/Simon/Tommy) has stole any limelights from LD or LCW in the SS... so, it's fair that he should be fired :rolleyes:

The same goes for Rashid :eek::cool: (i expect a backfired from this statement. haha)
u can't fire someone who had already quit, even if pbsi tells the media 1000 times. If people say joko was fired, why was he offered the job to coach the girly team?? Since joko is just a small humble fry compared to pbsi, joko shut his mouth.

http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showpost.php?p=452175&postcount=19

ctjcad

05-30-2008, 10:53 AM

Trust me..Rachel Wood is not a female..HE IS WINSTON_T....same guy..same argument that ends up great LD and all chinese players...;)..look at Winstons' post...same style..
..well, IMO, not necessary to keep on responding lah; if none or neither side willing to concede/compromise...It'll be the same argument with same result..Just let it go and wait til the Olympics' results come out..:cool:

cooler

05-30-2008, 10:54 AM

Noted. I'm suprised that his head was not on the chopping board after 0-3 hammered by KOR in TC. If this is EPL, I'm sure... errr... ;)
joko resigned in 2006

cooler

05-30-2008, 11:00 AM

So that's why he is coaching LD lol!

Enough to retire adi la... no need to work so hard. :cool:
didnt know u r that talented, sport prediction and now financial counselling lol

cooler

05-30-2008, 11:04 AM

TH perfomance in OG 2004 was far better than JXP in OG 2000...JXP is not the best player ever...dont be too foolish...;);)
I think you are Winston_T....:D:D..TH only had one tough match in 04 athen, he beat Peter G. The the final, he beat handiapped M. shon , wowwy:rolleyes:

JXP beat the deception master hendrawen to win the MS gold,

huangkwokhau

05-30-2008, 11:07 AM

TH only had one tough match in 04 athen, he beat Peter G. The the final, he beat handiapped M. shon , wowwy:rolleyes:

JXP beat the deception master hendrawen to win the MS gold,
2004..the depth of MS was much deeper than 2000 OG...still did not make JXP is the best player.......

cooler

05-30-2008, 11:25 AM

That did not make him the best or better than TH...Hendrawan also beat ZJH in 3 amazing sets in OG 1992...but Hendrawan was not better than TH...at that time..ZJH was the best..may be still until now beside Lim Swie King/Yang Yang....i wouldnt say 1992 was ZJH best year, his health is dropping because he only has 2/3 lungs left.

kwun

05-30-2008, 11:51 AM

Trust me..Rachel Wood is not a female..HE IS WINSTON_T....same guy..same argument that ends up great LD and all chinese players...;)..look at Winstons' post...same style..

Rudy is so sharp. banned.

badMania

05-30-2008, 11:58 AM

Poor thing...hehe....trust me...the same guy will come back as another identity soon :D

limsy

05-30-2008, 12:19 PM

Rudy is so sharp. banned.

oh my goodness...rivalry between hauge and winston...^^...

george@chongwei

05-30-2008, 01:18 PM

thanks, rudy...:):p
next time, pls help us identify again who is the next jade imperial and winston_t ya ok>?:)

cooler

05-30-2008, 01:24 PM

Poor thing...hehe....trust me...the same guy will come back as another identity soon :D
kinda funny that wifredlgf want leave and winston_t want to sneek back in

cooler

05-30-2008, 01:37 PM

2004..the depth of MS was much deeper than 2000 OG...still did not make JXP is the best player.......

hmmm, if 2000 OG MS wasn't high caliber, then shouldn't super talented taufik taken the gold?? Instead TH lost to the supposed less talented player:rolleyes:

2000 Olympic
Men's singles quarterfinals
Ji Xinpeng, China (15-12, 15-5) Taufik Hidayat, Indonesia
-------------------------------------------------------------

Lets compare 'how deep' of the MS at 2000 and 2004 OG

Men's singles quarterfinal winners at 2000 OG
Ji Xinpeng, China
Peter Gade, Denmark
Xia Xuanze, China
Hendrawan, Indonesia

Men's singles quarterfinal winners at 2004 OG
taufik, INA
Ponsana, Thailand
Shon, Korea
Kuncoro, INA

yah right...., boonsak and shon are really deep players making into the semifinal in 2004 OG :rolleyes:

george@chongwei

05-30-2008, 01:42 PM

kwun, can u identify winston_t ip adress.?? maybe next time if he makes another account again, u can tell us ok?:) haha..

huangkwokhau

05-30-2008, 04:37 PM

hmmm, if 2000 OG MS wasn't high caliber, then shouldn't super talented taufik taken the gold?? Instead TH lost to the supposed less talented player:rolleyes:

2000 Olympic
Men's singles quarterfinals
Ji Xinpeng, China (15-12, 15-5) Taufik Hidayat, Indonesia
-------------------------------------------------------------

Lets compare 'how deep' of the MS at 2000 and 2004 OG

Men's singles quarterfinal winners at 2000 OG
Ji Xinpeng, China
Peter Gade, Denmark
Xia Xuanze, China
Hendrawan, Indonesia

Men's singles quarterfinal winners at 2004 OG
taufik, INA
Ponsana, Thailand
Shon, Korea
Kuncoro, INA

yah right...., boonsak and shon are really deep players making into the semifinal in 2004 OG :rolleyes:
Yeah right..:rolleyes: I mean the participation or entry list was deeper..;)

cooler

05-30-2008, 05:43 PM

Yeah right..:rolleyes: I mean the participation or entry list was deeper..;)

i've made my point, no need to keep going to see who got the deeper frying pans.:p
Like others have said, a win is a win.
You said I believed JXP is the best player, i never ever said or noted that before. Go check my profile.

One important point.
TH played in 2 olympic games, won 1 medal
LD only played in 1 olympic game, lost 1, with one good bullet left.
In 2008, TH will use up 3 bullets, let see how many medal he will win.

If i can PAW twice as many matches, i can beat you too:p

ctjcad

05-30-2008, 06:16 PM

Poor thing...hehe....trust me...the same guy will come back as another identity soon :D
..hmm, if that's going to be the case, then there's no need to reply to his posts in the future..It's simply a matter of personal opinion..

...
yah right...., boonsak and shon are really deep players making into the semifinal in 2004 OG :rolleyes:

Yeah right..:rolleyes: I mean the participation or entry list was deeper..;)
.for comparison purposes, i've attached 2 links showing the MS lineups/draws of the 2000 & 2004 Olympics. IMO, one can argue all day that either lineup/draw is "superior" or deeper than the other...But how do we judge the "depth" of those lineups/draws??...
(2000)http://internationalbadminton.org/changes/Excel%20seet/sydney/MS/32athensms.xls

(2004)http://internationalbadminton.org/changes/Excel%20seet/athens/Athens_MS/32athensms.xls

But the more interesting question is, how about this yr's OG's MS lineup?? Is it more "superior" and "deeper" than those other 2?? If so, can one validate that this yr's OG MS winner is the best one amongst the previous ones??..:confused: :cool:

SibugiChai

05-31-2008, 12:57 AM

JXP is the top player in CHINA at his prime...
He always beat the likes of XXZ & CH in China but cant perfrom outside
China press wasnt suprise he perform that good but suprise that he perform that good outside CHina for the 1st time.
He nail the ultimate prize and that's what matter.
Down the year... people will only remember who win Olympic not his opponent :P

Rubinjo

05-31-2008, 03:01 AM

Yes ha can!!!!!!!

Patriot

05-31-2008, 03:05 AM

SibugiChai

05-31-2008, 03:59 AM

I say LD really deserves that title since his dominance in MS the last years,
But LCW will be absolutely motivated as well...

But!! Shouldn't be too focused on the big names and the high ranks, Lee Hyun Il... he'll do great I think!

And Finally:I hope not Sung Hwan Park or BCL;)

LD deserve it because he has been marvelous for the past 4years... No.1 isnt an easy task! But he will be main focus of opponents... they will study his game

Patriot

05-31-2008, 04:17 AM

LD deserve it because he has been marvelous for the past 4years... No.1 isnt an easy task! But he will be main focus of opponents... they will study his game

I totally agree!
1st: Becoming n°1 is really hard
2nd: Being n°1 is possaby even harder: You can only "lose"
everyone that plays against you is 150% motivated and wants to win even harder.
That's what's going to happen in Beijing as well, everyone will be extremely motivated and have studied his game...
LD is the one who carries the heaviest burden in Beijing.
Luckily for him he has a strong personality, which is to be admired.
Lot's of people think of him as arrogant etc.. but I think it's his self confidence and his will to win which keep his motivation and his personality standing during a match!

SibugiChai

05-31-2008, 04:21 AM

Lot's of people think of him as arrogant etc.. but I think it's his self confidence and his will to win which keep his motivation and his personality standing during a match!

You must be with abit of arrogant to be Top Player, self conficent! :cool: True... true... every good player need this cant lose attitude to maintain TOP!

huangkwokhau

05-31-2008, 07:22 AM

i've made my point, no need to keep going to see who got the deeper frying pans.:p
Like others have said, a win is a win.
You said I believed JXP is the best player, i never ever said or noted that before. Go check my profile.

One important point.
TH played in 2 olympic games, won 1 medal
LD only played in 1 olympic game, lost 1, with one good bullet left.
In 2008, TH will use up 3 bullets, let see how many medal he will win.

If i can PAW twice as many matches, i can beat you too:p

Haiya Cooler....pls read as I refer to drag queen Rachel wood..:rolleyes::D
regarding the PAW..you are on course to break the record...:p
As I said...yo know that..we have no high expectation on TH..you can use any bullets you want...:cool::rolleyes::o

taufik-ist

06-01-2008, 08:42 PM

Haiya Cooler....pls read as I refer to drag queen Rachel wood..:rolleyes::D
regarding the PAW..you are on course to break the record...:p
As I said...yo know that..we have no high expectation on TH..you can use any bullets you want...:cool::rolleyes::o

(now) we don't expect Th to win in OG 2008.. but if he wins , it will be very very great :D :D :D... and the history will repeat :D

ye333

06-01-2008, 11:40 PM

I think he surely knew that... He just chose convenient "partial truth" to prove his point. ;)

Yeah right..:rolleyes: I mean the participation or entry list was deeper..;)

cooler

06-01-2008, 11:52 PM

I think he surely knew that... He just chose convenient "partial truth" to prove his point. ;)
i hightlighted the semi finalists of 00 and 04 OG, the BF members can make their own judgement. Just remember one thing, JXP beat a deception master to win the title, TH beat a low ranking player with a handicapp to win his title

huangkwokhau

06-01-2008, 11:59 PM

i hightlighted the semi finalists of 00 and 04 OG, the BF members can make their own judgement. Just remember one thing, JXP beat a deception master to win the title, TH beat a low ranking player with a handicapp to win his title
TH did not choose his opponents..it happened that all strong ones lost early rounds...as you said..a win is a win...pls give TH's credit...;) are you saying that whoever beat Ronald susilo ( whom he beat LD in 1st round) was handicapped too??:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I could argue that hendrawan was not that strong opponents anymore in 2000 ...( as as you mentioned that ZJH was not healthy 1992 but still could fight in intensed 3 sets.)

cooler

06-02-2008, 12:27 AM

TH did not choose his opponents..it happened that all strong ones lost early rounds...as you said..a win is a win...pls give TH's credit...;) are you saying that whoever beat Ronald susilo ( whom he beat LD in 1st round) was handicapped too??:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I could argue that hendrawan was not that strong opponents anymore in 2000 ...( as as you mentioned that ZJH was not healthy 1992 but still could fight in intensed 3 sets.)
well, same goes for JXP, he didn't chosse his opponents either:rolleyes::p

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 12:28 AM

well, same goes for JXP, he didn't picked his opponents either:rolleyes::p
Thats right..but why you keep saying that TH's win is less than JXP???:rolleyes::p

cooler

06-02-2008, 12:29 AM

Thats right..but why you keep saying that TH's win is less than JXP???:rolleyes::pbecause u keep saying 2000 OG players are shallower:p

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 12:33 AM

because u keep saying 2000 OG players are shallower:p
LOL...you guys said that first...:p:p come on ..admit it!!;);)

cooler

06-02-2008, 12:41 AM

LOL...you guys said that first...:p:p come on ..admit it!!;);)

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=888600&postcount=352

we r going in circle, we better stop before we get spanked by the mod squad:D

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 12:42 AM

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=888600&postcount=352

we r going in circle, we better stop before we get spanked by mod squad:D
Then stop posting...you and rachel wood ( RIP) started and never give TH's credit..hehe
Claiming JXP is the best is like claiming Alan BK is the best player also.....;)
should we continue until this thread get locked?

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 12:55 AM

give TH a credit... :) he's the defending ms champion of OG :)

cooler

06-02-2008, 01:04 AM

Then stop posting...you and rachel wood ( RIP) started and never give TH's credit..hehe
Claiming JXP is the best is like claiming Alan BK is the best player also.....;)
should we continue until this thread get locked?please find the post where i've said JXP is the best. Look in my profile while u at it too.

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 01:07 AM

please find the post where i've said JXP is the best. Look in my profile while u at it too.
I guess you prefer to continue then.....;);)
I did not say either that OG 2000 is shallower...you guys claim that TH's win with weaker opponents/Handicapped opponents, etc.....thats like discredit TH's win...:rolleyes::rolleyes:

cooler

06-02-2008, 01:10 AM

I guess you prefer to continue then.....;);)
I did not say either that OG 2000 is shallower...you guys claim that TH's win with weaker opponents/Handicapped opponents, etc.....thats like discredit TH's win...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
i only wrote things that are true and quite obvious. The discrediting TH part is in your and taufik-ist mind.

at least i dont make up stuff:rolleyes:

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 01:15 AM

i only wrote things that are true and quite obvious. The discrediting TH part is in your and taufik-ist mind.

at least i dont make up stuff:rolleyes:

really? thats interesting...I write the true stuff too...:p:p lol
I do not make up stuff too...

cooler

06-02-2008, 01:18 AM

really? thats interesting...I write the true stuff too...:p:p lol
I do not make up stuff too...
so, please provide proof as i have asked for in post #383...

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 01:19 AM

i only wrote things that are true and quite obvious. The discrediting TH part is in your and taufik-ist mind.

at least i dont make up stuff:rolleyes:

TH deserved the gold medal.. don't blame TH if LD lost in early round :p

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 01:19 AM

so, please provide proof as i have asked for in post #383...
Go and read all your posts....( one of them is # 352););) winning over Handicapped players? is that not enough??
Shall we continue until the thread locked??

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 01:31 AM

TH only had one tough match in 04 athen, he beat Peter G. The the final, he beat handiapped M. shon , wowwy

JXP beat the deception master hendrawen to win the MS gold,

you have trully discredited TH and M shon

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 03:16 AM

Furthermore, TH played sucky on all his matches against LD in 2006 prior to the DOHA individual MS event. At 06 JP open, TH even folded his cards on the 3rd set, to hide his cards. At 06 HK open, TH walk out completely to avoid LD.
True, Doha title is meaningless to LD. Actually meaningless to most the chinese players too, xxf failed, zhang ning failed too. Useless Doha title, no ranking points, no money, why prepare oneself for that???? Doah title is important to Th because he is...........i better not say it in public, I talked too much already.:D:D

how did you know ? did you talk to them personally... don't make stuffs...

AG, OG are all about a nation pride.. you can't buy a nation pride with money.. that's why most china fans felt sad and some bashed him when lindan lost to TH in the ms final of AG 2006:p

jimbo

06-02-2008, 03:35 AM

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 03:58 AM

At the current form, Taufik is no where near his peak, and certainly not a threat to LD at all. In fact, Taufik is overhyped and pathetically 4-8 seeded did not justify his current form. Having said so, LD aint long ranger though. He still has to beat his own comrades, LCW, PG, LHI, PSH, and Sony.

i know and admit that... but give him a credit lah.. he's a defending champion of OG :D.. i realize the TH's chance for winning gold medal in OG 08 is very slim :o.. but who knows TH's last bullet might be a 'nuke' and could win the gold..he..he

Jagdpanther

06-02-2008, 04:07 AM

i know and admit that... but give him a credit lah.. he's a defending champion of OG :D.. i realize the TH's chance for winning gold medal in OG 08 is very slim :o.. but who knows TH's last bullet might be a 'nuke' and could win the gold..he..he
Seeing his 'wonderful' performance in TC, I must say that he has a very good chance....to pack away in 1st round.:o

jimbo

06-02-2008, 04:20 AM

i know and admit that... but give him a credit lah.. he's a defending champion of OG :D.. i realize the TH's chance for winning gold medal in OG 08 is very slim :o.. but who knows TH's last bullet might be a 'nuke' and could win the gold..he..he

"nuke" or "naked"??? I'm sure his wife and baby will enjoy shopping spree in Beijing after early round casualty. :rolleyes:

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 04:26 AM

"nuke" or "naked"??? I'm sure his wife and baby will enjoy shopping spree in Beijing after early round casualty. :rolleyes:
Be nice and respectful...............:rolleyes:

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 04:31 AM

"nuke" or "naked"??? I'm sure his wife and baby will enjoy shopping spree in Beijing after early round casualty. :rolleyes:

nuclear... :D... i believe TH will use OG 08 for his last best performance :D

jimbo

06-02-2008, 04:38 AM

nuclear... :D... i believe TH will use OG 08 for his last best performance :D

did u check the "expiry date"? :eek:

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 04:42 AM

did u check the "expiry date"? :eek:

he..he... his expired date is 2009 :D

jimbo

06-02-2008, 05:00 AM

he..he... his expired date is 2009 :D

As far as I know, it expired on May 16th, 2008 ;)

huangkwokhau

06-02-2008, 05:03 AM

As far as I know, it expired on May 16th, 2008 ;)
.....................................

samuel882

06-02-2008, 05:05 AM

anyone think TH was "expired" after his matches in TC08 will be make to eat their words:cool: ;)

jimbo

06-02-2008, 05:13 AM

anyone think TH was "expired" after his matches in TC08 will be make to eat their words:cool: ;)

my fren... u hv to learn to analyse a game from a "technical" view (only if u r an advanced player). seriously, go watch his game (vs LHI) again n again, then watch him playing in Doha (vs LD). then u know what i meant... ;)

X Ball

06-02-2008, 05:17 AM

my fren... u hv to learn to analyse a game from a "technical" view (only if u r an advanced player). seriously, go watch his game (vs LHI) again n again, then watch him playing in Doha (vs LD). then u know what i meant... ;)

Agree. TH already said it in the Press -- don't count on me too much coz I am a family man. It would not surprise me if he retires before he goes to Beijing.

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 05:18 AM

my fren... u hv to learn to analyse a game from a "technical" view (only if u r an advanced player). seriously, go watch his game (vs LHI) again n again, then watch him playing in Doha (vs LD). then u know what i meant... ;)

bro.... anything can happen to TH in the next 5 months.. :D

jimbo

06-02-2008, 05:19 AM

Agree. TH already said it in the Press -- don't count on me too much coz I am a family man. It would not surprise me if he retires before he goes to Beijing.

If I told u that i was there during the press conference (TC) and listened to what he said, do u believe me? ;) Though my bahasa INA is no good, being a msian, I was able to catch what he was trying to say... that's why I am quite confident in my words... unless something "unusual"/miracle happens :cool:

jimbo

06-02-2008, 05:21 AM

bro.... anything can happen to TH in the next 5 months.. :D

arrrlllooo brudder... 5 months? November? errr... :eek::D

taufik-ist

06-02-2008, 05:30 AM

arrrlllooo brudder... 5 months? November? errr... :eek::D

he..he sorry i'm kind of 'fuzzy' :D , i meant in the next 2 months :D

X Ball

06-02-2008, 05:35 AM

If I told u that i was there during the press conference (TC) and listened to what he said, do u believe me? ;) Though my bahasa INA is no good, being a msian, I was able to catch what he was trying to say... that's why I am quite confident in my words... unless something "unusual"/miracle happens :cool:

I believe u.

The only person who, in mind, is awesome is lCW in the singles. All other players are not convincing at this stage - they have to play catch up.

jimbo

06-02-2008, 05:38 AM

I believe u.

The only person who, in mind, is awesome is lCW in the singles. All other players are not convincing at this stage - they have to play catch up.

Thank you and WISE MEN think alike :eek::D Come to SO, and lets play some baddie in SG... :p

Jagdpanther

06-02-2008, 05:44 AM

Agree. TH already said it in the Press -- don't count on me too much coz I am a family man. It would not surprise me if he retires before he goes to Beijing.

Throwing away an OG ticket even before the show begins?:eek:
INA people will be more than ready to curse him.:)

SibugiChai

06-02-2008, 06:07 AM

Throwing away an OG ticket even before the show begins?:eek:
INA people will be more than ready to curse him.:)

TH still stand a chance but not high! Cant count him out yet! :cool:

limsy

06-02-2008, 07:11 AM

that is tactic lar i think...if everyone didnt beware about him...his chance will bigger and bigger...

baihaki_as

06-02-2008, 07:26 AM

this is waht i think about taufik on tc and olimpic :

his perfomance in tc show that actually he was dissapointed with pbsi that place him in second and the remove of alvent luluk of course.... if u notcie taufik boost his perfomance earlier of the year and i think his target to get top 4 to avoid meeting earlier with lin dan or lee chong wei but with now his ranking in 7 i think he will met one of them in quater final.....

so i think this is how taufik express his feeling to pbsi........

but u will see in indonesia super series his perfomance about 70%....
i'll bet he will much better than in tc

Jagdpanther

06-02-2008, 07:28 AM

that is tactic lar i think...if everyone didnt beware about him...his chance will bigger and bigger...

Oh, come on... Everytime he competes in a tournament, many people say, "Let's see. Taufik might spur some surprise now!"
Until now, I can't see any 'surprise.';)

The only surprise I get is the fact that he's still playing as INA MS1, halting our MS regeneration.

SibugiChai

06-02-2008, 08:24 AM

Oh, come on... Everytime he competes in a tournament, many people say, "Let's see. Taufik might spur some surprise now!"
Until now, I can't see any 'surprise.';)

The only surprise I get is the fact that he's still playing as INA MS1, halting our MS regeneration.

give him chance la..

after all he is Olympic champion!!!

PBSI also scare la & dun wanna take blame...

They rather let TH played and failed then TH never played but everyone else say he can win loll! :cool:

limsy

06-02-2008, 08:55 AM

Oh, come on... Everytime he competes in a tournament, many people say, "Let's see. Taufik might spur some surprise now!"
Until now, I can't see any 'surprise.';)

The only surprise I get is the fact that he's still playing as INA MS1, halting our MS regeneration.

nope...if his 'surprise' didnt done in OG...he will never have the chance...so...the real show will be in OG...anyone of us cant deny his skill and technique...

Dato A

06-02-2008, 09:01 AM

nope...if his 'surprise' didnt done in OG...he will never have the chance...so...the real show will be in OG...anyone of us cant deny his skill and technique...

Yes. TH's skill is superb compared to LCW.:D

reiko80

06-02-2008, 09:53 AM

Yes. TH's skill is superb compared to LCW.:D
hey dato....pls support our local people

george@chongwei

06-02-2008, 10:05 AM

Yes. TH's skill is superb compared to LCW.:D
agree, agree..:p:p
but in terms of getting more aggresive and superb dive and smash on court, lcw is the best:)
he will show it to the world during the OG08:)

cooler

06-02-2008, 10:51 AM

nuclear... :D... i believe TH will use OG 08 for his last best performance :Di suggest TH come to amercia, we have an excellent program to handle spent nuclear fuel:p

http://nsnfp.inel.gov/whatis.asp

cooler

06-02-2008, 10:54 AM

he..he sorry i'm kind of 'fuzzy' :D , i meant in the next 2 months :D
u r definitely posting under the influence, .... under the taufik spell LOL

ye333

06-02-2008, 12:13 PM

That's why I said it's "partial truth". People doesn't win gold by playing only SF and F, right?

And don't forget this "handicapped" person beat CH (twice! the other in WC2003) and Sony fair and square. Have you ever thought about it, why those "black horses" had so many chances when facing other top players (LD, CH, BCL) but had no chance at all when facing TH? ;)

Furthermore, if LD cannot even beat a well-prepared Susilo, what makes you think that he can beat a well-prepared TH? And look at what happened after OG, TH beat LD 3 times in a row (easier and easier!) in singles event and only lost once in a teams event in which INA already had no chance winning after its XD lost (Same situation as LD vs LCW in 07 Sudirman, the match itself has no significance to both teams).

As I always said, TH's OG and WC golds are not as "significant" as JXP's OG gold (in fact none of the WC/OG champions after 2000 are at the same level as JXP if we look at their opponents. Mind comparing LD's two WCs against JXP's OG? Hafiz Hashim? Anup Sridhar? An old and exhausted CH? SDK? :D Only BCLx2 sounds strong), but definitely not below average.

i hightlighted the semi finalists of 00 and 04 OG, the BF members can make their own judgement. Just remember one thing, JXP beat a deception master to win the title, TH beat a low ranking player with a handicapp to win his title

limsy

06-02-2008, 12:26 PM

As I always said, TH's OG and WC golds are not as "significant" as JXP's OG gold (in fact none of the WC/OG champions after 2000 are at the same level as JXP if we look at their opponents. Mind comparing LD's two WCs against JXP's OG? Hafiz Hashim? Anup Sridhar? An old and exhausted CH? SDK? :D Only BCLx2 sounds strong), but definitely not below average.

yalor...no one can choose opponent...beside korea in thomas cup for sure...^^...

cooler

06-02-2008, 01:08 PM

baihaki_as

06-02-2008, 03:34 PM

but for the tradition the player who seeded in no1 for ms never win the olympic gold

cooler

06-02-2008, 03:55 PM

but for the tradition the player who seeded in no1 for ms never win the olympic gold

THEN LD WILL THE MAN TO CHANGE HISTORY:p::cool:

madbad

06-02-2008, 04:16 PM

Han

06-02-2008, 05:30 PM

one thing for sure, 08 OG is gonna be one pressure cooker:

LD: home soil, expected to win, missing hardware in his trophy cabinet
LCW: in a hot streak (according to his fans). Huge pressure as he is the only gold hope for the entire nation.
BCL: most improved player so far IMO, no longer plays like a girl:p
TH, PG, WCH: all married, last chance for glory before retirement
SDK, simon S,CJ, LHI, PSH, BP: dark horses, can surprise any critics
Wacha, KJ, japan, ENG, HK & vietnam players: an accomplishment if make it to the SF

I think the pressure is on the players who have yet to win a big one among all the potential Olympic candidates. There always will be pressure in big event like All England, World Championship and Olympic and since Lin Dan has won World Championship and All England twice, I think he should be able to manage during the Olympic, I don't see the repeat of Olympic 2004 where he fumbled in early round. On the contrary, Lee Chong Wei, Bao Chunlai, Lee Hyun Il, Park Sung Hwan have yet to pass the above test while season player Taufik just doesn't have what it takes to win anymore ... Chong Wei really is the one that I think will face huge pressure with high expectation, I really hope he can withstand the pressure and pass the early round jitter.
Lin Dan still should be the one to bet on to win the gold.

jamesd20

06-02-2008, 05:43 PM

Very late starter to this thread, but I have now formed my opinion.

I agree OG 08 will be a pressure event, and to a certain degree agree that Lin Dan should be the favourite.

I am however not so sure he will win though. OG is only every four years, and many of the players will have focussed their training possibly for two years with the main outlook being the OG.

LD, although obviously the best player in the world on a day to day basis in the opens, and over a yearly period, He has a tremendous desire o win and excpetional athletic ability, these are the very attributes which could lead him to not win the OG.

The OG rewards players of exceptional ability and one-off performance, as all the highly talented players who for one reason or another don't or can't perform to this level year in year out. Unfortunately for me LD doesn't have this ability, that top level of play - when watching him when he is hard pressed against one of these players he almost looks ordinary. I will not cite examples as such but when said players are fully fit and playing their best he cannot keep up.

For this reason I don't think LD will win. my vote will go for LCW, BCL (whom I think if he does not face LD can beat any other, but the scars are too many to beat LD). As all the players will be playing their hearts out in OG, LD could quite possibly fall foul to one of the lower ranked players out playing him.

I would also say you can not draw any conclusions to the upcoming tournaments either. players will be fitting these around their training, wheras they would normally be fitting training around them, and as such the results are generally anomalous.

cooler

06-02-2008, 05:54 PM

i dont doubt jamesd20 analysis. All along i've said LD has the best odds but never said LD is shoe in to win the title, and the real serious challengers will be lcw and bcl. I would not buy the crashing out early theory for LD this time tho because LD is now more than his old one dimensional player before, jumpsmashing, plus what Han have said too, LD has learned about pressure from the last 4 yrs. Pressure is still on lcw shoulder, china has 3 bullets.

wood_22_chuck

06-02-2008, 05:57 PM

ctjcad

06-02-2008, 06:16 PM

but for the tradition the player who seeded in no1 for ms never win the olympic gold

THEN LD WILL THE MAN TO CHANGE HISTORY:p::cool:
..a way for LinDan to secure & be ranked no.2, going into the Olympics??..hmmm..:confused:

madbad

06-02-2008, 06:23 PM

Off-topic: I hope the Malaysian press and what not will not pile on the nation's expectation on Lee Chong Wei with fanfare as mental pressure will be another issue to deal with, for the lad.

-dave

Too late. Whether mentioned out loud or not, the expectations are high, nay, overbearing for LCW to deliver for MAS. His recent win over LD in the TC has fueled this even more IMO. While unfair on the player, it was almost inevitable.

I fully expect LD to win. I feel bad for BCL, whom if on the same side of LD's bracket, will be sacrificed for LD's progress. BCL has performed excellently this year. Don't care much for CJ as he's been "helped" to make the MS draw; he won't progress far anyway. Got a sneaky feeling Boonsak will upset a few apple carts. As for other MAS and INA players, get ready to shop till you drop ;):D

Qidong

06-02-2008, 06:27 PM

but for the tradition the player who seeded in no1 for ms never win the olympic gold

Was Poul-Erik Hoyer-Larsen #1 seed in 2000? I remember he was ranked #1 in the world before around that time.

cooler

06-02-2008, 06:30 PM

Was Poul-Erik Hoyer-Larsen #1 seed in 2000? I remember he was ranked #1 in the world before around that time.plus baihaki_as assumption is too broad. Should we include WS, MD, WD AND XD too?

ye333

06-02-2008, 06:35 PM

Totally agree with this analysis.

Very late starter to this thread, but I have now formed my opinion.

I agree OG 08 will be a pressure event, and to a certain degree agree that Lin Dan should be the favourite.

I am however not so sure he will win though. OG is only every four years, and many of the players will have focussed their training possibly for two years with the main outlook being the OG.

LD, although obviously the best player in the world on a day to day basis in the opens, and over a yearly period, He has a tremendous desire o win and excpetional athletic ability, these are the very attributes which could lead him to not win the OG.

The OG rewards players of exceptional ability and one-off performance, as all the highly talented players who for one reason or another don't or can't perform to this level year in year out. Unfortunately for me LD doesn't have this ability, that top level of play - when watching him when he is hard pressed against one of these players he almost looks ordinary. I will not cite examples as such but when said players are fully fit and playing their best he cannot keep up.

For this reason I don't think LD will win. my vote will go for LCW, BCL (whom I think if he does not face LD can beat any other, but the scars are too many to beat LD). As all the players will be playing their hearts out in OG, LD could quite possibly fall foul to one of the lower ranked players out playing him.

I would also say you can not draw any conclusions to the upcoming tournaments either. players will be fitting these around their training, wheras they would normally be fitting training around them, and as such the results are generally anomalous.

ctjcad

06-02-2008, 06:36 PM

Was Poul-Erik Hoyer-Larsen #1 seed in 2000? I remember he was ranked #1 in the world before around that time.
..1st link, in post #364 should reveal the answer to your query...;)

ye333

06-02-2008, 06:37 PM

#1 Seed is Taufik Hidayat in OG 2000. I don't know who the #1 ranked player was just before OG, but I don't think it's Hoyer-Larsen.

Btw, was it Larsen who met Sun Jun in the round of 32?

Was Poul-Erik Hoyer-Larsen #1 seed in 2000? I remember he was ranked #1 in the world before around that time.

ctjcad

06-02-2008, 06:45 PM

..it was Poul-Erik Høyer Larsen who won the 1996 OG MS in Atlanta...

..here is a post listing all the no.1 seeds, for MS, from previous Olympics:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=886186#post886186 (post #106)
Minor correction is the 1996 Olympics. The #1 seed was Joko Suprianto, not Heryanto Arbi.

MS Winners:
1992 Alan Budikusuma
1996 Poul-Erik Høyer Larsen
2000 Ji Xinpeng
2004 Taufik Hidayat

cooler

06-02-2008, 06:54 PM

ctjcad

06-02-2008, 07:02 PM

..according to Wikipedia, the seeding for some reason, was different.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badminton_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics
(under MS). Joko was 1st seed and Poul was 2nd seed.
Dong Jiong, if i'm reading correctly, ended up as 3rd seed...anyway...
*Thanks for that tidbit of article info, cooler-:cool:

baihaki_as

06-02-2008, 07:28 PM

On-topic: Yes, Lin Dan can win the Beijing Gold. The recent Thomas Cup loss to Lee Chong Wei should provide some fuel to kick-start his ascent to peak form.

Off-topic: I hope the Malaysian press and what not will not pile on the nation's expectation on Lee Chong Wei with fanfare as mental pressure will be another issue to deal with, for the lad.

-dave

i remember the word from my little friend in friendster she said that if the player cannot handle the preasure from media or his country he is a loser a winner is a person who can change the hope/expectation of his country to be a motivation not a preasure

jimbo

06-02-2008, 08:27 PM

THEN LD WILL THE MAN TO CHANGE HISTORY:p::cool:

Just like how the movie "L changed the world" (Death Note 2)??? :rolleyes: I hope Susilo will haunt him again... and forever :cool:

jimbo

06-02-2008, 08:33 PM

When all eyes were on Powell for the 100m (Reebok Grand Prix in NY), Jamaican Usain Bolt stole the limelight with a 9.72seconds world record. :eek: Having said so, it's highly possible that someone else snatch the GOLD from LD or LCW. IMHO, the likely winner is BCL or CJ ;)

Still... I wanna LCW to win... :D:p:D Msia Boleh...!!!

cooler

06-02-2008, 10:07 PM

jamesd20

06-03-2008, 05:09 AM

I would not buy the crashing out early theory for LD this time tho because LD is now more than his old one dimensional player before, jumpsmashing, plus what Han have said too, LD has learned about pressure from the last 4 yrs

I agree. Everyone is lower ranked than LD, but it is unliklely to be someone below (for example sake only) No.12 due to his experience in dealing with these players and the pressure and as you say his added dimension to rally better now.

AlanY

06-03-2008, 07:40 AM

..hmm, if that's going to be the case, then there's no need to reply to his posts in the future..It's simply a matter of personal opinion..

.for comparison purposes, i've attached 2 links showing the MS lineups/draws of the 2000 & 2004 Olympics. IMO, one can argue all day that either lineup/draw is "superior" or deeper than the other...But how do we judge the "depth" of those lineups/draws??...
(2000)http://internationalbadminton.org/changes/Excel%20seet/sydney/MS/32athensms.xls

(2004)http://internationalbadminton.org/changes/Excel%20seet/athens/Athens_MS/32athensms.xls

But the more interesting question is, how about this yr's OG's MS lineup?? Is it more "superior" and "deeper" than those other 2?? If so, can one validate that this yr's OG MS winner is the best one amongst the previous ones??..:confused: :cool:
the lineup can only tell half of the story. important is injured free, match fit and play to their best abilities.

AlanY

06-03-2008, 08:26 AM

For this reason I don't think LD will win. my vote will go for LCW, BCL (whom I think if he does not face LD can beat any other, but the scars are too many to beat LD). As all the players will be playing their hearts out in OG, LD could quite possibly fall foul to one of the lower ranked players out playing him.

if the seeding is based on the world ranking and there is a good chance that we will have BCL/LCW in one of the SF. A fired up BCL with home support I'll say he got better than 50/50 chance to win and into the Final.

jamesd20

06-03-2008, 10:16 AM

if the seeding is based on the world ranking and there is a good chance that we will have BCL/LCW in one of the SF. A fired up BCL with home support I'll say he got better than 50/50 chance to win and into the Final.

Firstly, does anyone know when the seedings are set (IE from which World ranking date?). This may alter if it is for example after the upcoming SS events which BCL may not enter (Singapore for a start).

Secondly I am not so sure BCL could deal with the individual pressure. As I said in the TC threads, he can handle the TC pressure as it is spread over the team event. Can he handle individual pressure?

Saying that however, if BCL is fit, fast and incisive as he can be he can puncture LCW's confidence and crack his speed. The question is whether he can deliver.

AlanY

06-03-2008, 10:32 AM

Secondly I am not so sure BCL could deal with the individual pressure. As I said in the TC threads, he can handle the TC pressure as it is spread over the team event. Can he handle individual pressure?

not sure about the other teams, i do believe that the CHN team will treat the 5 individual events as a team event, particularly for the home olympics

cooler

06-03-2008, 10:50 AM

the lineup can only tell half of the story. important is injured free, match fit and play to their best abilities.yes, i have stressed that before too. Who is the most patched up MS player? CJ LCW...

CJ need to recoup from his back injury as well.

cooler

06-03-2008, 10:54 AM

Firstly, does anyone know when the seedings are set (IE from which World ranking date?). This may alter if it is for example after the upcoming SS events which BCL may not enter (Singapore for a start).

Secondly I am not so sure BCL could deal with the individual pressure. As I said in the TC threads, he can handle the TC pressure as it is spread over the team event. Can he handle individual pressure?

Saying that however, if BCL is fit, fast and incisive as he can be he can puncture LCW's confidence and crack his speed. The question is whether he can deliver.to the chinese team, the OG at home soil is very similar to team event, winning medals for the motherland. I believe they would place higher importance of china winning silver and gold over themself winning silver or gold.

jamesd20

06-03-2008, 02:13 PM

not sure about the other teams, i do believe that the CHN team will treat the 5 individual events as a team event, particularly for the home olympics

to the chinese team, the OG at home soil is very similar to team event, winning medals for the motherland. I believe they would place higher importance of china winning silver and gold over themself winning silver or gold.

I　Realise this, but in this case where was BCL in 2004?

The team may stick together but it is BCL's name on the board, not CHN as in TC. when he is out there, he is on his own. and as we have seen before this usually ends in defeat.

Han

06-03-2008, 06:36 PM

I　Realise this, but in this case where was BCL in 2004?

The team may stick together but it is BCL's name on the board, not CHN as in TC. when he is out there, he is on his own. and as we have seen before this usually ends in defeat.

Someone also mentioned Bao crumbled in Thomas Cup 2002 and he played very well in Thomas Cup 2008 Final(6 long years later). Now you think Bao of Olympic 2004 shall repeat in 2008? Bao is 4 year older and 4 years more mature, he may not win the gold but he will be a big force to help China clearing obstacles(in that sense, still an team event). I don't recall Chong Wei making any impact in Olympic 2004 either but I bet he will this time after 4 long years of growing.
Anyway, how may other players won the Super Series besides Lin Dan and Chong Wei? Doesn't mean that they are not as good.

cooler

06-03-2008, 07:19 PM

I　Realise this, but in this case where was BCL in 2004? He played like a girl in 2006 and earlier

The team may stick together but it is BCL's name on the board, not CHN as in TC. when he is out there, he is on his own. and as we have seen before this usually ends in defeat.

he can play like a guy now. Finger crossed that no one steals his cellphone before the olympic match, bao should be ok.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

taufik-ist

06-03-2008, 08:33 PM

u r definitely posting under the influence, .... under the taufik spell LOL

i'm not under anyone's spell... how about you sir ? , i was very dissapointed with TH' performance in tc and in fact i bashed TH in my heart at that time.. i dont expect th to win OG 2008 but i do give him a credit coz he's stil defending champion of OG

ye333

06-03-2008, 09:27 PM

SibugiChai

06-04-2008, 12:17 AM

Honestly I don't see much change in Bao. Didn't he still play like a girl in the first game against LHI? :confused: In the 2nd game LHI slowed down (mental breakdown, stamina deficiency, whatever the reason is), that's why BCL got more chance to attack and looked like "a man". :D

Bao lack the mental strength to be NO.1!

But if he really concrentrate and got more confidence in his game.

ye333

06-04-2008, 12:42 AM

The way I see it, BCL is a bit slow in moving. Furthermore, he always tries to keep up with his opponents in pace. Thus he always has difficulty when facing opponents who are faster and with same skill level (LD, LCW, TH when fit). In 06AG, when TH pump up the pace, BCL simply could not keep up. He tried to attack but made many mistakes because he was not in a comfortable position.

Bao lack the mental strength to be NO.1!

But if he really concrentrate and got more confidence in his game.

cooler

06-04-2008, 12:42 AM

Bao lack the mental strength to be NO.1!

But if he really concrentrate and got more confidence in his game.

the plan is to have LD for gold, and bcl the silver. This still fits your condition:p

cooler

06-04-2008, 12:44 AM

ye333

06-04-2008, 10:39 AM

LazyBuddy

06-04-2008, 12:26 PM

Honestly I don't see much change in Bao. Didn't he still play like a girl in the first game against LHI? :confused: In the 2nd game LHI slowed down (mental breakdown, stamina deficiency, whatever the reason is), that's why BCL got more chance to attack and looked like "a man". :D

But I think we should give BCL some credits to make LHI slowing down? Holding on when you are behind and take advantage of stamina are winning factors, right? I mean, if LHI is facing me, I doubt he can even warm up before giving me 21-0. :p:rolleyes:

bananakid

06-04-2008, 01:13 PM

Com'on, I am trying to learn something from you. I could not see any big change in BCL so would appreciate it if you can give me some hint. Like what has changed? He moves faster? smashes more (that is in certain positions he used to choose drop but now do smashes)? or something else?

First of all, Bao's style is unique in that he does not reply purely on power, but to move his opponent around the court with calculated drop shots and attacking clears, then put it away with a smash(more of a half smash/stick smash) mostly based on angles(he has good angles with his height advantage) instead of power.

If my above analysis is correct, then it makes no sense for him to smash unless he is in the perfect position(where he is behind the shuttle by quite a bit)... which in terms leads to him making more drop shots and clears.

Another thing is that Bao is not as agile/flexible as Lin Dan due to his height, so at some more difficult angles, Bao may not be able to do a difficult around the head smash like the one that Lee Yong Dae did at the last point in AE2008 final... PLUS Bao lacks the kind of power that Lin Dan has, so even if Bao manages to do such a smash, yet if it doesn't produce a winning shot, then he may have put himself in a difficult situation to recover.

jamesd20

06-04-2008, 02:31 PM

First of all, Bao's style is unique in that he does not reply purely on power, but to move his opponent around the court with calculated drop shots and attacking clears, then put it away with a smash(more of a half smash/stick smash) mostly based on angles(he has good angles with his height advantage) instead of power.

If my above analysis is correct, then it makes no sense for him to smash unless he is in the perfect position(where he is behind the shuttle by quite a bit)... which in terms leads to him making more drop shots and clears.

Another thing is that Bao is not as agile/flexible as Lin Dan due to his height, so at some more difficult angles
I agree with your analysis. I think Bao however does not smash so much not just because he may be less Agile than LD (which is debatable) but more that is is just not his natural style. He is a more patient player, which is a disadvantage when playing the top top players, as you need to take the half chances when they present themselves, as the easy mid courts may not come.

Like others have said he also tends to simply follow his opponents pace, rather than be able to control and dictate, as such he lets his opponents play more. THis also is just a natural style.

chibe_K

06-04-2008, 03:13 PM

The MS gold is his. I would be surprised if he did not win.

ye333

06-04-2008, 03:35 PM

Seems to me he is not very successful in this when facing players like LD, LCW, or TH (when fit of course).

First of all, Bao's style is unique in that he does not reply purely on power, but to move his opponent around the court with calculated drop shots and attacking clears, then put it away with a smash(more of a half smash/stick smash) mostly based on angles(he has good angles with his height advantage) instead of power.

hollywood_t

06-04-2008, 03:55 PM

My Canadian Brother you are too funny :D:cool:

of course u dont see things my way, you're not cooler:p

jamesd20

06-04-2008, 05:19 PM

Seems to me he is not very successful in this when facing players like LD, LCW, or TH (when fit of course).

I believe this is because his lack of aggressiveness - he waits to long for the chance, and as long as his opponent returns the shots and keeps the shots away from the kill zone then they can take their half chance to force the error.

BCL's game is typified by his accurate placement to the four corners and his flatter clears (In fact this accuracy can lead to inconsistency as he hits so close to the lines they can go out easily). I think he is a textbook player, everything he does is very deliberate, if he is not in a position to play a shot he doesn't, he waits for it to come, sometimes at the top level you have to force the issue and play a bit ugly or rushed.

Pemuda

06-04-2008, 07:07 PM

bananakid

06-04-2008, 07:25 PM

Seems to me he is not very successful in this when facing players like LD, LCW, or TH (when fit of course).

It is hard to say whether Bao has figured out how to move top players like LD, LCW around the court effectively with his drops and attacking clears... especially when it has more to do with tactical than technical. We all know that Bao is technically sound, and if he does have(or figure out) the tactics to move them effectively before/at the OG, Bao can be very difficult to beat... well at least for everyone other than Lin Dan.:p

madbad

06-04-2008, 07:43 PM

It is hard to say whether Bao has figured out how to move top players like LD, LCW around the court effectively with his drops and attacking clears... especially when it has more to do with tactical than technical. We all know that Bao is technically sound, and if he does have(or figure out) the tactics to move them effectively before/at the OG, Bao can be very difficult to beat... well at least for everyone other than Lin Dan.:p

In truth, LD has the measure of Bao, team orders or not. LD should own Bao psychologically. Yes Bao did perform well in the recent TC but I can't see him winning the OG gold. I think the Koreans (LHI and PSH) may have peaked too. Other than LCW, my 2 "dark" horses for an upset are Boonsak and Peter Gade.

ye333

06-04-2008, 09:16 PM

Exactly. Facing lesser opponents, his supremacy in skill can usually create many good chances for him, but when playing very top players who can match his skill, he ends up either defensing all the time, or trying to "take half chances" and making many mistakes (IMHO BCL is very bad at "taking half chances", maybe he just is not comfortable doing that, or maybe his lack of power does not allow him to do that).

How do you compare BCL with CH? I think CH is also a "textbook" player.

I believe this is because his lack of aggressiveness - he waits to long for the chance, and as long as his opponent returns the shots and keeps the shots away from the kill zone then they can take their half chance to force the error.

BCL's game is typified by his accurate placement to the four corners and his flatter clears (In fact this accuracy can lead to inconsistency as he hits so close to the lines they can go out easily). I think he is a textbook player, everything he does is very deliberate, if he is not in a position to play a shot he doesn't, he waits for it to come, sometimes at the top level you have to force the issue and play a bit ugly or rushed.

ye333

06-04-2008, 09:18 PM

I don't think LHI peaked in this TC. He is much less aggressive than when he was in good form, for example at the beginning of this year.

In truth, LD has the measure of Bao, team orders or not. LD should own Bao psychologically. Yes Bao did perform well in the recent TC but I can't see him winning the OG gold. I think the Koreans (LHI and PSH) may have peaked too. Other than LCW, my 2 "dark" horses for an upset are Boonsak and Peter Gade.

cooler

06-04-2008, 09:49 PM

I don't think LHI peaked in this TC. He is much less aggressive than when he was in good form, for example at the beginning of this year.u don't trust lcw so now you're a LHI fan?

ye333

06-04-2008, 11:50 PM

What do you mean? Just watch LHI vs BCL game 1, LHI was not as aggressive as a few months ago.

IMHO, the players that were not in good form: LD, LHI, BP.

I was just presenting my observation. No relation to whether I am any of these players' fan. In fact, roughly speaking, I am a TH fan. :D IMHO LCW or LD or LHI, none of them has ever reached the level of TH in 04OG and 05WC. :D

u don't trust lcw so now you're a LHI fan?

BethuneGuy

06-04-2008, 11:51 PM

When watching the top seeds play, I see that they are 'counter-attack' players. I think Bao is too tall for that style, and thus loses on agility. They usually don't attack first, but continually pressure the opponents with fast shots, until they are sure they can win the point, which is when they change speed with hard smashes and drives. But I noticed the defence of the top seeds improved over the 2 years (I've only been following badminton for 2, and only starting to understand it on the surface), and no one goes all-out on the attack anymore. Peter Gade used to, before he injured his knee, but when he was the top player, the top seeds at the time were either in the twilight phase of their career, or were far from the top form. I think that Lin Dan is one of the fastest, and despite what everybody says, one of the smarter players. He has a very high chance to win gold. With Taufik out of form, or lacking determination (I can't tell which is the one), and LCW being inconsistent, Lin Dan has my bet for Beijing 2008.

cooler

06-05-2008, 12:27 AM

eaglehelang

06-05-2008, 04:38 AM

I don't think LHI peaked in this TC. He is much less aggressive than when he was in good form, for example at the beginning of this year.

Ye333, I'm sure you know that Li Mao was not present at TC finals to guide LHI (and PSH). Only the Korean assistant coach was there, official reason is Li Mao got problem in getting the visa.
Li Mao was also not there at a few tourneys bf that, it's believed LHI's lesser form was due to Li Mao's absense.
It didnt effect PSH though, at TC, that is. Park did lose earlier round in India Open or sthing like that, Li Mao was not there.

Anyway, OG Li Mao will be there, so... see how the dark horses perform then.

george@chongwei

06-05-2008, 04:41 AM

My Canadian Brother you are too funny :D:cool:
but im the COOLEST!:)
hahaha:p:p:p

limsy

06-05-2008, 04:45 AM

but im the COOLEST!:)
hahaha:p:p:p

if u are the coolest in malaysia...u already melted by hot wather...:p

ye333

06-05-2008, 09:03 AM

I think I saw somewhere before TC that LHI claimed that his main goal is OG or something like that.

Ye333, I'm sure you know that Li Mao was not present at TC finals to guide LHI (and PSH). Only the Korean assistant coach was there, official reason is Li Mao got problem in getting the visa.
Li Mao was also not there at a few tourneys bf that, it's believed LHI's lesser form was due to Li Mao's absense.
It didnt effect PSH though, at TC, that is. Park did lose earlier round in India Open or sthing like that, Li Mao was not there.

Anyway, OG Li Mao will be there, so... see how the dark horses perform then.

ye333

06-05-2008, 09:05 AM

There there. You accused me of being a fan of LHI, and when I explain, you put forward a "reminder"... :eek:

Did I mention "titles" as my reason? I mentioned level of playing. Just think about ZJH vs. YY and you will understand. ;)

as a reminder, this thread is about player's odd of winning in 08 OG. Btw, 2 titles don't make a great player:rolleyes:

Han

06-08-2008, 11:13 PM

LCW beat LD in the recent TC and suddenly Malaysians think LCW overnight has become the main contender to take that gold in Beijing. How I wish things were that simple.

Well, what I am going to say next I am sure the Boleh fans will jump on me and all. Lets see whether LCW can win that SO first before we start dreaming of our first Olympic gold. If LCW cant win in Singapore despite all the big guns not showing up, I really wonder how he is gonna take that gold in Beijing when the big guns turn up in droves.

But knowing Malaysia Boleh, I am pretty sure should LCW make a boo boo in the SO, we will have the usual Boleh excuses i.e. "he was tired", "he had too much Singapore meehon", "he is still young", "give him another chance", "support and pamper him" etc etc etc. ;)

Chong Wei has been ranked #2 for quite sometime so it's not un-realistic to think he has chance to win the gold after he soundly beating Lin Dan in Thomas Cup. Lin Dan will still be the favorite after dominating in years as world #1. We can't judge just by one tournament so even Chong Wei win Singapore Open or fumble really doesn't mean much(at least to me), the key is to rectify his mistake/weakness before Olympic as stated by Misbun.
We are all fan and Chong Wei is the one that has the best chance to win medal so it's not unreasonable to expect him to win, who else can the Malaysians count on besides Chong Wei?
You don't think the Korean fan expect Hyun Il or Sung Hwan to win the gold too? I know these two players have every confident to beat the Chinese so why not thinking of the gold?

george@chongwei

06-09-2008, 11:23 PM

if u are the coolest in malaysia...u already melted by hot wather...:p
im coolest on earth..see my location:D

koo_fan

06-10-2008, 05:40 AM

Which malaysian say chong wei will in beijing all based on thomas cup won.
Hello...?I see none of them.

why bring it up?

ctjcad

06-19-2008, 10:53 AM

...
I was just presenting my observation. No relation to whether I am any of these players' fan. In fact, roughly speaking, I am a TH fan. :D IMHO LCW or LD or LHI, none of them has ever reached the level of TH in 04OG and 05WC. :D
..out of the entire MS lot that will be competing in the upcoming Olympic Games, only Taufik has the Gold Medal (and defending champ). I know his motivation & desire are probably no longer there but perhaps, just perhaps the only motivation for Taufik to go all out and do his best is to play as if someone has just stolen his 2004 Olympic Gold medal... :rolleyes:

Dato A

07-05-2008, 03:20 AM

..out of the entire MS lot that will be competing in the upcoming Olympic Games, only Taufik has the Gold Medal (and defending champ). I know his motivation & desire are probably no longer there but perhaps, just perhaps the only motivation for Taufik to go all out and do his best is to play as if someone has just stolen his 2004 Olympic Gold medal... :rolleyes:

He might looking for the 2nd Olympic Gold medal...

Oldhand

07-05-2008, 04:46 AM

Just 'looking' isn't going to be enough to win a second Olympic medal, much less the gold.

Taufik has been an 'onlooker' for quite a few recent tournaments.
If he wants to even be in contention this time, He needs to buckle up real tight...

...and Indonesia can only hope that he's busy doing it right now.

It's not just Lin Dan and Lee Chong Wei waiting to meet him.

Jagdpanther

07-05-2008, 04:52 AM

He might looking for the 2nd Olympic Gold medal...
He looks, he finds, but he (unfortunately) can't get his hands upon it.:o

eaglehelang

07-05-2008, 06:27 AM

...... just perhaps the only motivation for Taufik to go all out and do his best is to play as if someone has just stolen his 2004 Olympic Gold medal... :rolleyes:

he he, for Indonesia's sake, maybe someone would do just that, steal Taufik precious OG medal, that will get him fired up.:p

jug8man

07-05-2008, 09:44 AM

Sure Lin Dan can win. But it doesn't mean it's a gaurantee ;)

X Ball

07-05-2008, 09:50 AM

Sure Lin Dan can win. But it doesn't mean it's a gaurantee ;)

But do you mean he is guaranteed not to win ?:D

limsy

07-05-2008, 09:52 AM

But do you mean he is guaranteed not to win ?:D

he/she mean every ms participation can win the gold medal...but not for sure

chibe_K

07-06-2008, 04:32 PM

Lin Dan has no choice, can he not win the gold ?

Dato A

07-07-2008, 02:21 AM

Lin Dan has no choice, can he not win the gold ?

It is not the matter got choice or not, it's whether he is capable to win that gold or not..:D:D

Ask our LCW 1st before LD choose want or not to grab that gold medal:D:D:D

AlanY

08-19-2008, 04:54 AM

let's put it this way, you're in a hot air balloon 3000m up and asked to pick the MS winner of 2008 OG. if you got it wrong you're out of the basket, who will you pick?

it will be LD for me.
and i'm still in the balloon, someone get me down!!

cooler

08-19-2008, 05:06 AM

and i'm still in the balloon, someone get me down!!
i'll wait unitl 2012:p

Cindyy

08-19-2008, 05:34 AM

i'll wait unitl 2012:p

ok, let's wait ..................2012:)