How would you describe an intermediate player?

[Scott_G500]

How would you describe an intermediate player? How good does one have to be to call him/herlself an intermediate player?

[twobeer]

Anyone can call him/herself an intermediate player :p

Intermediate is not a fixed definiton as it implies being "in the middle" of two extremes.. So its based on reference.. What is a "good/best" and what is a "bad" player...

Someone training in the Chineese Junior squad, probably has a totally different view of what constitutes an intermediate badminton player, compared to an American or Swede playing for excercise a few times a month, if he beats his mates regurarly he may feel he is beyond intermediate :rolleyes: .. it's all relative..

So the answer is i suppose:

It Depends!!

Cheers,
Twobeer

[jerby]

how about:
in short: in intermediate player has all basics covered.
which include:
- correct footwork to all corners, and the ability to do an around-the-head
- a variaty in strokes: full length clears, drops, smashes, straight&cross
- the ability to slice shots
- an adaquete backhand (drop, crossdrop, maybe somewhat of a clear)
- basic tactics covered: what to do when...

now a question to you: what does it matter wheter someone calls you a beginner/intermediate/advanced player on the internet?

[stumblingfeet]

Of course, on the internet, everyone's an "advanced" player. ;)

[Scott_G500]

I didn't ask this question so that I could rank myself. I was only curious.

[stumblingfeet]

We were just teasing :p .

Okay, here in Canada we have 5 levels of coaching certification -
1. introductory
2. regional
3. provincial
4. national
5. international

In this case you group athletes by the size of region in which they are the best players. The bigger the region, the better the player. We can rename the different levels in terms of the player levels:
1. beginner
2. intermediate
3. advanced
4. professional
5. elite

Under such a system, you would ideally start with a Level 1 coach and progress to higher level coaches as your playing level goes up. I haven't taken levels 4 and 5, but I imagine that much of it is probably mental - learning how to get the proper mentality to go up against and beat the best the in the world.

However, I have taken the first three levels so I'll summarize what was covered:

1. beginner
- clear, drop, smash, net, lift, serve, drive, basic strategy

2. intermediate
- spinning net shot, stick-smash, net intercept, brush, deception, common tactical play

3. advanced
- tactical principles, specific training for weaknesses

So, with that we can come up with a profile for these different levels of players:

1. beginner : in singles, plays a simple four corners + smash game, probably not too much thought into which corners to play to. In doubles, the net player probably waits there and is only capable making the kill when the return is very weak. Most players I see at clubs are stuck at this level.

2. intermediate : in singles, introduces slices, stick-smashes at the back and spinning net shots, brushes at the net (when appropriate) to put more pressure on the opponent. In doubles, the net player becomes capable of going after shots to make the kill. However, tactically the player probably uses a vague ratio based decision making system for determining where to place shots (e.g. smash straight most of the time, occasionaly change it up with a crosscourt or slice). Most players who have had formal instruction get to this level.

3. advanced : now the tactical play is more situation specific. Based on his position, your opponent might have certain weaknesses for certain shots. A player at this level can recognize this weakness on the fly and hammer home the easy point. At this point, the coaching for this level starts to be rather specific for each player, so fewer players get to this level.

[Scott_G500]

Ok, thx very much!

[SystemicAnomaly]

All good answers on this. It really is relative as 2beer says -- depends who you are talking to or about. I'll try to give a slightly different perspective.

In this part of the world , local tournaments use an A-B-C-D-Novice system. The D class was originally supposed to be a novice class but realistically most players there are probably low intermediates. However this class is usually won by solid intermediate players. Sometimes an E or Novice class is used -- those players will most likely be high (advanced) beginners to low intermediate.

The C designation often represents a very wide range of talents -- usually intermediate to very high intermediates.

When it comes to college classes, an intermediate course usually consists of very high beginners to low intermediates with a small percentage of higher level players showing up for extra court time.

Note that this is all primarily my own perpsective. Other may have a somewhat different take on it. Hope this all gives you a better perspective.

[Monster]

Hmm... from this measure, I sound like an intermediate.

I still cannot jumpsmash properly - is that an advanced stage in your opinion? Or it is one of those things some intermediates maybe able to do but are weaker in other areas which others find easier?

I know it depends, but on average, based on your experience, how long do you think a person can progress to the advanced level if he/she plays regularly and has all levels of players available to play with. Gutfeel/wet finger number is good enough.

[Gollum]

Bah.

How long is a piece of string? As long as it is long, of course :p

[Loppy]

I would consider county/regional players or high standard club players to be advanced, then standard club players to be intermediate, and occasional/recently started players to be beginners.

[SystemicAnomaly]

...I know it depends, but on average, based on your experience, how long do you think a person can progress to the advanced level if he/she plays regularly and has all levels of players available to play with. Gutfeel/wet finger number is good enough.

Many/Most ppl never get to an advanced level. An individual who is an exceptional naturally-gifted athlete might achieve it in just a few years.

It really depends your age, physiology (muscle, skeletal, etc), hand-eye cordination & other visual skills, spatial & kinesthetic intelligence, other natural athletic abilites, quality of coaching, intensity & frequency of training, attitude (incl desire to excel), etc, etc, etc (in saecula saeculorum).

I really like Gollum's answer on this one.

[azabaz_ipoh]

well lets see now :

1. never ever had a coach. learn from father and his friends when younger. the rest trial and error.

2. can clear from baseline to baseline for forehand, backhand still sucks.

3. can move around the court. but not so well. technique and stamina not good.

4. net still a weakness but drop shot pretty good

5. normal smash, ok. jump smash, what? jump with my weight? i'll break my knee caps. he he he.

6. drives and stroke could get better.

7. tactic and strategy for looking for empty space on court, ok.

hmmmmm..........definately!

i am the begindiate......he he he he he. but as long as i enjoy the game, i couldn't care less. i will learn if other people teach me. and i do want to get better. but since i dont intend to make this my living, i am happy as it is. maybe join amatuer tournament here and there just for the fun of it. :D:D

[morewood]

Its all relative to whom your playing against.

Beginner group - your a beginner.
Recreational group - probably a bit better than a beginner and needing to get fit or your getting old and don’t play competitively any more (that’s me and most of the people I play against).
Club player - probably intermediate level and above, clubs often say there beginner friendly but you wont get far here unless you have the basics covered.
League player - your club think your good enough to represent them don’t let them down, a good standing in the league shows that your certainly competent.
County player - your good. (the highest level I played against)
National player - your very good
International player - your the top of the game

[jerby]

Hmm... from this measure, I sound like an intermediate.

I still cannot jumpsmash properly - is that an advanced stage in your opinion? Or it is one of those things some intermediates maybe able to do but are weaker in other areas which others find easier?

gah, rubbish... check www.youtube.com and type in "jump smash"...

you'll see kids and absolute beginners "jumpsmashing" who, at their current level, should spent time doing drills instead of filming themselves doing spastic jumpsmashes...
you can see beginners/intermediates 'jumpsmashing' all over the court, tryign to look cool...and advanced players, or even professionals that hardly get of the ground.
(Kenneth Jonassen doesn't 'jumpsmash'..he does get of the ground though...)

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yeah, jerby's got it right. Wouldn't use the jump smash as a major criteria. A lot of intermediate & advanced players hardly ever jump smash, if at all. You see the same thing in other sports as well. Many elite players in volleyball & tennis don't ever get off the ground when they serve.


... as long as i enjoy the game, i couldn't care less. i will learn if other people teach me. and i do want to get better. but since i dont intend to make this my living, i am happy as it is. maybe join amatuer tournament here and there just for the fun of it. :D:D

Good attitude. Enjoy the game & enjoy the learning process. You are usually much better off savoring the journey rather than completing fixating on a destinaton that might not be reachable.

[azabaz_ipoh]

:D yes, i am thoroughly enjoying the journey. i hope everybody is enjoying the journey too. :D

[Monster]

Yes, it looks coool to jumpsmash and certainly must have its benefits.

If one cannot jumpsmash (unless he/she chooses not to even if able), then he/she doesn't have the complete suite. So, apart from being cool, one should also learn the missing techniques in their arsenal of swordsplay. And I'm missing out on this one. I guess this relegates me to a beginner despite my 2.5 years! :(

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yes, it looks coool to jumpsmash and certainly must have its benefits...

The primary benefit of the junmp smash if the angle, the steepness, that the higher contact provides. Most ppl cannot hit a shuttle with the same velocity with a jump smash as they can with a ground-based smash. It's the angle, not the power that makes the jumper useful.

The 2ndary purpose of the jump smash is, of course, the cool factor.


... If one cannot jumpsmash (unless he/she chooses not to even if able), then he/she doesn't have the complete suite. So, apart from being cool, one should also learn the missing techniques in their arsenal of swordsplay. And I'm missing out on this one. I guess this relegates me to a beginner despite my 2.5 years! :(

I strongly disagree, one does not need to jump smash to be a complete player. Even some elite players don't jump much, if at all. Becuz of knee issues and a heel/ankle problem, I don't jump very often. I do just fine against younger players who jump like mad.

There are plenty of ppl who have been playing for 3 years and are still at the advanced beginner stage. Someone who's played for 2.5 years may or may not be an intermediate player -- it is not a given.

[Athelete1234]

While we're on the topic of Jump smashing (I can't do them after 5 years, but I don't care), the people who I know who actually do jump smash have to lower their contact point to time the smash, so their angle suffers, so the jumping is really a waste of energy for them. On the most part, I can get better angle smashing while standing while they jump smash.

[jerby]

then they're doing it wrong...

I can 'jumpsmash' but heck, I'm 6'4'' or so and just barely get off the floor ;)

[DivingBirdie]

Personally, i would consider games which have PLENTY of consistent, powerful jump-smashes(double-leg jump), to be at an advanced level. Simply because it means that

1) spinning net shots are of high-quality, giving players a high enough lift to do a full double-leg jumpsmash (singles)

2) Players have footwork quick enough to be considered advanced players.( they are able to move, jump, smash, fast enough)

3) Players have the stamina/conditioning to do continuous jumpsmashes( say, in doubles). This shows that they're at advanced levels.

To sum it up, being ABLE to do a jump-smash doesn't mean you're an advanced player. However, the games we usually see which have jumpsmashes frequently occuring are usually high-level matches. (Of course i am not talking about 2 kids giving each other half court lifts so that the other guy could jump-smash.) i have come to the conclusion that anyone who uses the jumpsmash to significantly improve their game can be considered an advanced player.(this means he is able to get a better angle and power, and he considers the trade-off for extra energy used to be worth it)

It is quite reasonable to use jumpsmashes to distinguish high-level games from lower ones, but it shouldn't be used as a representation of one's skill. For example, lin dan could prolly beat any of us here without using his jumpsmash. In fact he probably wouldn't even want to do jumpsmashes against newbies, simply because he wouldn't consider the stamina spent worth it!

[Simp84]

I disagree with all who say jumpsmash proves you to be an advance player..
The only way you can tell an advance player is by the quality of their shots, their consistency (hardly any unforced error), and their placement..
Furthermore an advance player tend to have very powerful wrist (power not just in strength but in skills!:D) and be able to manipulate any shots they want, and they tend to be effortless and not in a hurry when executing their shots

[Monster]

At least to me, most jumpsmashes are executed by the more advanced player in my club. You may disagree, but I still believe to be able to jumpsmash is better than not knowing how to, whether it is the complete suite or not.

[huynd]

I think the most evident indices of an advanced player is his/her foot work and stroke skill. Footwork is a very strong indice. Infact, there're people who play very smartly, their shots are consistent and deceptive, but their techniques may seem awkward (or just does not look like pro :-)). I lost against these people countless times, and I found that the straight way to deal with them is to speed up the game and take advantage of my superior footwork.

[CoolDoo6]

Well a quick definition for an intermetiate would be: if you need to ask what is an intermmediate, you are not yet an intermediate.

[xt6666]

Well a quick definition for an intermetiate would be: if you need to ask what is an intermmediate, you are not yet an intermediate.


Or he is a PRO, but doesn't know it...

:p

[bigfatfish]

i think if u have considerable ball sense and standard footwork, u r
considered intermediate player.

however, i have 2 say dat advanced players (in my opnion state players) sometimes can be too conceited and reduced to intermediate performance.

eg.
-ronald of singapore in aviva open 07
after committing his stupid unforced errors, he looked at the lights and
his racket (as if it is never his fault).

-yip pui yin in macau open 06 ws finals. some very stupid stupid mistakes.

if u guys have watched lee jay bok's video, his first roots (fundamentals) of
badminton is attitude.

so probably the level of ur game play is really ur attitude. ;)

[SystemicAnomaly]

Well a quick definition for an intermetiate would be: if you need to ask what is an intermmediate, you are not yet an intermediate.


More of the same:

When playing doubles, if you can not figure out who is the weakest player on the court (the one to pick on), it may be you!

If you want to feel better about your game and raise self esteem then play people who are not as good as you. If you can not find some one then go teach somebody how to play. If they get as good as you then take them off your list.

[Joanne]

SUBJECTIVE.

In my experience(or rather, the lack of it), the terms 'beginner', 'intermediate' and 'advance' varies greatly. It depends on how high standard the people you are playing with(or rather, against) are. In some training academies, I'll be considered somewhere among the intermediate(those serious, don't play play kinds), if not a beginner. And yet in some not-so-serious training academies, I'll be considered, 'Wow! Advance player!'

Hence I've always wondered.. HOW do we define the terms? I came to the conclusion that it depends on who we are compared against.

Just my two cents worth. ;)

Oh. And the jump smash part? I think I've just been relegated to a total beginner. =P

[Gollum]

Well a quick definition for an intermetiate would be: if you need to ask what is an intermmediate, you are not yet an intermediate.

Substitute "glib" for "quick" and you're spot on.

[xt6666]

Substitute "glib" for "quick" and you're spot on.


What does glib mean?

1. to have a ready tongue
2. shallow/superficial


;)

[jgao_net]

'intermediate' and 'beginner' are all subjective and depend on the people you play with. i thought i was an 'intermediate' player when i was in canada but my horizons where broadened when i started to play with some 11-13 year olds in china