Thumb press for backhand clear

[killersmash]

i am having trouble doing the backhand clear and my coach " JoJo " ( nickname ) said it is my grip problem....he recommended the thumb press grip... i tried it and realized that i must keep a distance from the shuttle to hit it spot on... can anyone teach me how to do it the right way??:D

[xt6666]

What do you mean with: "I must keep a distance from the shuttle"?

And what do you mean with: "hit it spot on"?

[Gollum]

...and what do you mean by "thumb press grip"?

[chickenpoodle]

i think to keep distance from the shuttle means he can't be hitting the backhand stroke close to his body.
i think to hit it spot on, is to hit it on the sweetspot.
and the thumb press grip might be in reference to the common backhand grip of the thumb being on the largest bevel of the grip?

this all makes sense though, as we all know this grip restricts mechanics of the wrist and arm, rendering this use of grip for backhand clears to be useless when we find the shuttle close to ourselves. it only works when its still infront of us. but when the shuttle is close to our side, or worse, behind us, we rely on the more universal grip to get us out of trouble, allowing us to use supination and fingers to aid in production of power.

i'm still at a loss however, as to what :D means.

[azabaz_ipoh]

all this guessing would not be beneficial. some pictures would be of much help dont you think. i might not be able to help out much since my skills are not that good either but i am looking forward to learn here. :D

[Tsumaranai]

Hey, why're you using the smiley? Do you know what it means?

[Mark A]

I always use the thumb-press grip when the shuttle is in front of me - I think this is what ks means. If the shuttle passes the plane of your body, the thumb-press if impossible to use (the pan handle is the only way to hit on the backhand once the bird is behind you).

With regard to backhand clears, don't wait for the shuttle to come to you - hit it when it is about 2 feet in front of you. At the moment of impact, snap the wrist and point the palm upwards, and do a snap hip twist so that your back is to the net.

Have a look at http://www.metacafe.com/watch/487896/learn_backhand_clear_in_badminton/.

[Chire]

I always use the thumb-press grip when the shuttle is in front of me - I think this is what ks means. If the shuttle passes the plane of your body, the thumb-press if impossible to use (the pan handle is the only way to hit on the backhand once the bird is behind you).

With regard to backhand clears, don't wait for the shuttle to come to you - hit it when it is about 2 feet in front of you. At the moment of impact, snap the wrist and point the palm upwards, and do a snap hip twist so that your back is to the net.

Have a look at http://www.metacafe.com/watch/487896/learn_backhand_clear_in_badminton/.

There are times you have to hit the shuttle behind you with your backhand. I have to use this kind of backhand much more often than the one in which the shuttle is not behind you (as you can take most of the higher shots to your backhand corner with your forehand).

Anyway, I'd say this "thumb grip" is actually not so correct. Proper backhand clear/smash is executed with fingers too, rolling the grip, well not only with thumb anyway. There are loads of threads concerning this action/motion on these forums.

I don't think either of those players (Nathan Robertson and Gail Emms?) executed good backhand clears. The woman's backhand clear motion was kinda sharp but the technique looked terrible :(. Well doubles players don't need backhand clears that often anyway, there's no need for them to spend so much time training it.

[xt6666]

No, It was Nathan Robertson and TRACY HALLAM!

Can't believe you think that Tracy Hallam is Gail Emms! *lol*

Back to topic:
I think Tracy's backhand technique really is not very good
Nathan's technique is much better I think.

[Chire]

No, It was Nathan Robertson and TRACY HALLAM!

Can't believe you think that Tracy Hallam is Gail Emms! *lol*

Back to topic:
I think Tracy's backhand technique really is not very good
Nathan's technique is much better I think.

Heh that's why I had a question mark there, plus the video wasn't too chrystal clear quality one.

Meh, I don't even care whoever the heck she is, her backhand technique sucked :rolleyes:. I don't think Nathan Robertson has so good one either, he took all the shots in front of his body, not behind, and didn't use his fingers at all (can't tell for sure of that video). It becomes much much more difficult when you're taking it late.

To learn the proper backhand clear technique, I'd advise to watch that of Chen Hong's, or well Taufik Hidayat's too. Both of the above have exceptionally good backhand clear technique, even on the pro-circuit.

[xt6666]

The problem with Chen Hongs backhand is, that his ellbow is already very high at the beginning of his stroke... So he needs more strength...

Of course HE has the strength... but normal players have problem with that technique.

So I would recommend TH's backhand instead of CH's...

[Gollum]

You people are arrogant beyond belief.

You watch a few videos and think you can pass judgement on a world-class women's singles player?

Looking at Tracey's backhand with the eyes of a coach (not just an armchair critic), I would say her technique is excellent. Of course, I would expect nothing less from a player of her calibre.

Of course, you can reply that Taufik's backhand is better, so ya boo sucks to me. Good for you -- you've learned enough badminton to make you a wannabe Taufik. Tracey, on the other hand, has learned enough badminton to be a Commonwealth Champion.

Studying Taufik's backhand instead of Tracey's will make absolutely no difference to your own backhand. Both players possess superb technique, and you don't. That's why they are pros, and you're not.

Also, please note that the video is copyrighted material published by Badminton England. I will be notifying them of the link so they can consider taking action against the website.

** Back on topic **

The grip is crucial. We still don't know what this "thumb press" grip is.

You should not use the same grip for backhand clears as you do for backhand serves. For clears, the grip should be more like the "forehand" grip. You should still use the thumb, keeping it straight throughout the stroke.

[chriz]

the coach will probably teach you hwo to use back hand, if you cant do back hand clear, its probably due to your muscle, you might want to consider working on your back hand wrist muscles

[fivestars]

i am having trouble doing the backhand clear and my coach " JoJo " ( nickname ) said it is my grip problem....he recommended the thumb press grip... i tried it and realized that i must keep a distance from the shuttle to hit it spot on... can anyone teach me how to do it the right way??:D

I would say that the backhand clear is the most difficult among all backhand shots, comparable to the back court backhand smash. Are you good at backhand drives, push and drops? If not, you might want to start with those first. Have you seen vids of Zhao JianHua teaching backhand? He said to start with shorter half-court and not back-court to back-court clears. I think Zhao's backhand is among the best compared to most of the coaches that has instructional vids. His backhand has a short movement without excess over swing. The sound is very crisp and IMO it even sound better than a smash.

[2NDround]

[quote=Gollum;580456]You people are arrogant beyond belief.

You watch a few videos and think you can pass judgement on a world-class women's singles player?

Please forgive them. They are probably too young to know better;) I am like them once a long time ago. Read a couple of pages and think I am an expert:o

[xt6666]

@Gollum:

Obviously her technique is not perfect... (It's hard for me to find the right special terms, because I only know them in "german"... - but in "terms" of the "dorsal flection?!?!?", I think, that for example Nathan's technique is better than Tracy's... And also in 1 or 2 other points I think it could be better...)
But it works for her...

Nobody says, that she is NOT a world class player, BUT:

If someone wants to learn the right way of hitting a backhand, what's wrong when "we" say: better watch TH or Zhang Ning or someone else?!

And I have the right to say that, even when I'm not a pro...
You don't have to play better then someone else, to see that he is doing something "wrong"

Otherwise nobody could coach the world number 1...
Only only the number 1 could coach the world number 2...

[xt6666]

BTW: I hope that the next videos from Lee Jae Bok will be backhand clear or backhand Drop/Smash...

I still have 8 Pounds in my account on ibbs.tv...
Hope he will post new videos in 2-3 months...

[Gollum]

You miss my point.

Yvette Yun Luo has the right to criticise Tracey's technique. Why? Because Yvette is her coach.

Can Yvette beat Tracey in a game? I very much doubt it. But Yvette has experience of playing and coaching at the top level of badminton.

I find it distasteful when an amateur player criticises a professional's technique. What makes you think you know enough? Are you coaching international players? Are you even a qualified coach?

Do you really think that reading stuff on Badminton Central makes you an expert? Do you really think you could teach Tracey Hallam a better backhand?

You also seem to imply that an amateur player will learn a better backhand if he watches Taufik than if he watches Tracey. This is not true, because his skills will be so far below their skills that it makes no difference.

Idolising Taufik does not help your backhand. It just helps your fantasy backhand. Get some coaching and start practising. Watching the pros can be useful, but they all have great technique that you can aspire to copy.

If you think, "my backhand is more like Taufik's than like Tracey's", then you have delusions of grandeur. The same goes for players who say, "my style of play is like Chen Hong". Rubbish: your style of play is nothing like any professional player.

**Edit**

Having said that, I see from your profile that your standard of play is "World Class". In that case, you are perfectly qualified to make such judgements. I do apologise ;)

[phaarix]

Yeah I've been using a terrible backhand technique for years by using the same grip for my back court backhand shots as I used for my backhand serves (with my thumb down the back of the racquet). It annoys me that no one ever mentioned it. I'd been practicing the wrong technique for a long time thanks to a misunderstanding at training once. I wondered why all my shots were very weak and I would sometimes hurt my wrist while performing the shot. I should really have asked, and I wish I had now.

I use the correct technique now (I hope I do anyway :p), and it was all because of a little problem with my grip! It's so much easier now and it just goes to show you should never neglect the basics.

Oh and Taufik's backhand does look more classy. But of course I'm in no position to judge who's technique is better. Watching the pros always helps though! Often when I go to a tournament, I spend a lot of time watching the better players, and without realising it at first, when I get on court I often start to try and imitate their technique. It's really helpful.

[Gollum]

I think Taufik almost certainly has a better backhand than Tracey Hallam or Nathan Robertson. He may have the best backhand in the world.

But I would never say that Tracey's backhand technique sucked :rolleyes:

[xt6666]

I doesn't make sense for me to argue in english, therefore my english is too bad...

But when you say I miss your point, then you missed my point too...
Are your last 5 paragraphes adressed to me?!?!?

Just on more thing: You can be sure, that I'm qualified AND this has NOTHING to do with badmintoncentral.com.


And in my view, Tracy's technique STILL is not perfect (which means good, but not perfect - above I wrote her technique isn't really good... And I meant compared to Nathan's. Also perhaps in english it sounds "harders" then in german...).

this is just a FORUM: everybody has the right to critisice professionals if he wants, I think... Perhaps he's totally wrong, but that doesn't matter...
Otherwise we have to open a new forum or a official national coaching subforum, where only national coaching are allowed to post...

[phaarix]

No lol, but then lots of people say things like that :p. Think of say the Nintendo Wii, Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. It's always got to be that one is "awesome", and the rest "suck" >_>. People seem to think it must emphasize their point :D.

[Gollum]

this is just a FORUM: everybody has the right to critisice professionals if he wants, I think... Perhaps he's totally wrong, but that doesn't matter...

Indeed. You have the right of free speech, and I have the right to tell you why your speech is foolish.


Just on more thing: You can be sure, that I'm qualified AND this has NOTHING to do with badmintoncentral.com.

This discussion is becoming unproductive. Your ego is getting in the way of your objectivity.

My view:
Unless you are a world-class coach or player, it's arrogant to criticise the skills of a world-class player. Learn a little humility!
All world-class players provide excellent examples of technique for amateur players to copy. There is no added benefit from copying the world #1 instead of the world #20.

[Chire]

The problem with Chen Hongs backhand is, that his ellbow is already very high at the beginning of his stroke... So he needs more strength...
Of course HE has the strength... but normal players have problem with that technique.
So I would recommend TH's backhand instead of CH's...

Very much agreed, his backhand swing is indeed shorter than that of Taufik's and therefore requires more power. But the rest of the shot execution is very similar between the two anyway, including the finger/thumb process.

[Chire]

Anyway, to Gollum's reply:

After reading my own reply, I too think my statement was really exaggerated. phaarix actually put it very nicely there, it was that sort of a quick reply.

However, I only commented the backhand shots she executed on that video clip, never denying that she wouldn't be a good player or a pro or even that she would lack in any other areas - how would I know when I barely even knew her name.

I don't think even Tracey gained her success with her backhand only. In fact, there are players that use only a few or even none high backhands in the entire match they play. That's why it is indeed possible for a pro to have not-so-good backhand technique. What's more, I definitely think I know players that have better backhand technique than her (judging from the video), despite not being pros, only Finland's elite class players.

Technique is far from being the only measure to define a pro. Surely the pros possess good technique, but there might be loads of players that have better, but lack in other areas; stamina, muscle strength, good nerves, consistency, experience and such. There are even lots of junior players who possess excellent technique, but cannot beat older players who have more experience for instance. Of course even the world class players have many points in their play to criticize, and you don’t have to be a world class player yourself to notice that

That being said, I might as well be one of those who actually possess better technique than her and there's no way you would be able to know. Actually, I might as well be able to beat her despite not being a pro. I, however, can't compete in women's singles so I guess we'll never know.

Anyway, I don't think that personal insult you took on us was anyhow appropriate, makes me think you're the one who's arrogant. For your information, I don't like Taufik at all. Unlike Tracey's, his backhand technique just stands out and is therefore just worth mentioning, in my opinion that is.

Note that I as well have the degree of a coach and therefore look at her technique "with the eyes of a coach". And in the eyes of this coach, it indeed makes a difference studying Taufik's backhand technique compared to Tracey's. Even the beginners develop and may someday reach the top 10 of the world who knows. Then those players may have almost exact copies of either Tracey’s or Taufik’s backhand. I’d personally rather take that of Taufik’s.

[xt6666]

@Gollum:

Isn't it also arrogant to say that I'm foolish?!?

Can't remeber that I offended you...

[Chire]

Also, you should look into that website’s terms and conditions as well as submission rules before drawing any conclusions. Legally it is not the website owners who are responsible for publishing copyrighted material, but the users who submit it there. There have been many lawsuits against this website, as well as all the other websites such as this (youtube, etc.). You can personally ask them have it removed if it indeed is copyrighted material without needing to bother Badminton England at all.

[phaarix]

It's all good Chire. I know what you mean, I just meant in general, wasn't singling you out in particular. Just pointing out that a lot of people have a habit of doing that :). We all do sometimes!

Also I think it is alright to share opinions on professional player's technique on a community forum. It's good to be critical and it helps our understanding. We might not get huge benefits out of copying Taufik's backhand over Tracey's but I don't think it hurts either :p. If we do end up coming to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who you look up to then that's the benefit we got out of the debate! Besides it's good to set high standards even if you're unlikely to ever reach them. It's just nice to have something to aspire to.

[Gollum]

Isn't it also arrogant to say that I'm foolish?!?

No, it's just not very nice.

I have the bad habit of being blunt and honest in inappropriate situations. I should just be nice instead. Nice isn't informative, but it does keep people placid.

Now, I'm out of this thread before I upset more people.

[Chire]

No, it's just not very nice.

I have the bad habit of being blunt and honest in inappropriate situations. I should just be nice instead. Nice isn't informative, but it does keep people placid.

Now, I'm out of this thread before I upset more people.

:( And here I was looking forward to hear your point of view on my arguments.

Well anyway I think you indeed were being blunt, but not honest however, you pretty directly offended us with no basis or whatsoever.



Both players possess superb technique, and you don't.




Of course, you can reply that Taufik's backhand is better, so ya boo sucks to me. Good for you -- you've learned enough badminton to make you a wannabe Taufik.

[phaarix]

No, it's just not very nice.

I have the bad habit of being blunt and honest in inappropriate situations. I should just be nice instead. Nice isn't informative, but it does keep people placid.

Now, I'm out of this thread before I upset more people.

You can be informative and nice at the same time. You've just got to be especially careful with your words :p.

[xt6666]

@Gollum:

You name us arrogant and foolish because we say that TH's backhand is better then Tracy's and a few posting later you say the same (Post #20)

Ah! I now: You are a world class coach and so you have the right to say it... *lol*

You are becoming as arrogant as in this thread:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41490&page=4


Perhaps now we finally can get back to topic...

[xt6666]

The problem with her technique is that she starts the swing with a palmar flection (wrist bend to the palm area)...

If beginners try to do that, they often keep the palmar fletion instead of keeping a DORSAL flection for the whole stroke...

For Tracy it's now problem, because she changes to dorsal flection before hitting, but beginners probably will not. The result will be NO power!

The dorsal flection is teaching in germany and I think world wide, when I look at many many other world class player and national coaching DVDs...

So I think, that Tracy has a good backhand EVEN with her technique and not BECAUSE of her technique!

I also would NEVER recommend Chen Hongs backhand for beginners. Even he has a great backhand! Because his backhand works for him, but not for you! (Beause of his forearm strength)

[stumblingfeet]

Haha, this is an entertaining thread. All this arguing...

When talking about the technical-physical side of sport (e.g. technique for power), I like to use the analogy of a map. Each direction on the map represents a different variable. Of course, in reality this map would extend into multiple dimensions, but the analogy of a 2D map is easy to visualize.

So, somewhere on this map there is a "perfect technique" for generating the maximum possible power. Professional players, despite variations in their technique, are in the vicinity of this technique. Non-professional players, generally, are much farther away from this ideal.

The point is that technique is multi-dimensional. You can't simply say that you have x% of so-and-so's technique mastered - instead you have a function involving many different variables like limb dimensions, muscular cross-section, tendon attachments, motor-unit firing characteristics, joint angles/positioning. Of course, not every one has equal importance at different levels of play. It is up to you or your coach to determine what is most important at your current level.

Using this map analogy, we can come up with two methods for "navigating" the map (i.e. training). The first would be to keep your heading pointed to the target (the ideal technique) and simply move in that direction. The real life equivalent to this would be simply practising the technique, and repeating it over and over while paying attention to the technique. What happens is that each stroke, you're training all the qualities you want to train in the correct proportions.

The other method? Take your heading, and while keeping that in mind, take the easiest path you can to get to where you want to go. Suppose there is a hill right between yourself and your target. Instead of taking the hard route, perhaps you can walk around it. The real-life way of how to do this is to figure out why technique is breaking down, then fixing that problem. A common example of this is when you tell someone to stay on the balls of their feet when pushing off hard. If they figure out why they can't keep their heels off the ground (perhaps lack of strength, or maybe a motor unit firing rate issue) and then address it, then the technical problem will be fixed.

[fishmilk]

Anyway back to the original topic, not PRO'S backhands. This is what I've learned.

There are two different grips for backhand. The "thumb press" is for short strokes such as front/midcourt drives as well as net shots.

The other one where your thumb is ON the bevel to the right of the flat side (left for lefties) and your index finger is a little higher so that it's on level with your thumb. This is used for bigger shots such as backcourt backhands.

When trying to learn a backhand clear, my coach suggested to practise the backhand drive from backcourt. When you are able to, the clear will automatically be there as well. It is like skipping a step, and you'll end up with two shots instead of one, and you'll be closer to being able to backhand smash too.

With regards to backhands close to the body, it is simply a bad habit. Backhands were not meant to be used close to your body. It is MUCH more effective to use an overhead forehand shot. Backhands should be used to get yourself out of trouble rather than an offensive shot. That's why before you try to learn and perfect your backhand technique, it may be more worthwhile to reevaulate your footwork. The better your footwork is, the less you'll have to go to the backhand and the more you'll be able to stay on the offense during a rally.

[Kiwiplayer]

You miss my point.

Yvette Yun Luo has the right to criticise Tracey's technique. Why? Because Yvette is her coach.

Can Yvette beat Tracey in a game? I very much doubt it. But Yvette has experience of playing and coaching at the top level of badminton.

I find it distasteful when an amateur player criticises a professional's technique. What makes you think you know enough? Are you coaching international players? Are you even a qualified coach?

Do you really think that reading stuff on Badminton Central makes you an expert? Do you really think you could teach Tracey Hallam a better backhand?

You also seem to imply that an amateur player will learn a better backhand if he watches Taufik than if he watches Tracey. This is not true, because his skills will be so far below their skills that it makes no difference.

I don't understand why you're so offended.

If no-one other than Tracy's own coach (and yourself, it seems) is allowed to make observations on her technique, then perhaps she shouldn't have allowed the video to be made.

For what it's worth, I also don't think her backhand is that flash, either. She's hitting 2/3 court at most. Nathan's is clearly better. The fact that he is the one being used to demonstrate the technique (with all the fancy graphics) would indicate that the producers of the video thought so, too.

Wayne Young

[chriz]

i thought taufik's back hand is the best......

[madman]

Interesting thread! Hopefully no one got hurt by all the exchanges. IMHO, I think Tracy Hallam's backhand clear is very good. It is not easy to learn, mind you! My view is that her technique is very efficient - more power using less effort. I could see how she draws strength from her body to the point of impact with the shuttlecock with minimal effort. She starts to gather momentum when she moves from the front and reaches the peak when she transfers that to the elbow and wrist, and finally making a very swift wrist snap. Perfect. Especially for weak male players like myself. I shall see if I could adopt her technique. :-) Nathan's technique, on the other hand requires the player to have a strong wrist, as I could see that he never uses his body strength but relying solely on his wrist snap alone.

[xt6666]

If we forget about the very beginning of her swing I also think the technique is very good...

The problem is the start of her swing: unneeded great motion with palmar flection, that often leads to techniqual error for beginners...

Don't overrate the power that can be created from the body:
You can't generate much power with your body on the backhand side, this only works on the forehand side.

I think Nathan also does not need much power. Both have excellent wrist snap, which is crucial (besides 1 or 2 other things) for a good ("overhand") backhand

[jrmanu]

i am having trouble doing the backhand clear and my coach " JoJo " ( nickname ) said it is my grip problem....he recommended the thumb press grip... i tried it and realized that i must keep a distance from the shuttle to hit it spot on... can anyone teach me how to do it the right way??:D hey this is a easier way just use your normal grip and take the shuttle when its like 1 more head high and mybe a lil higher and it will fly behind

[killersmash]

lol... i started this thread den went on holiday... i came back to see the replies and all i saw was...scolding ( me using the smily?!), arguing , comparisons. i only saw a few answers to my questions... plz help me ty ( no smilies from me now )

[xt6666]

What exactly was not answered in this thread?!?

[Gollum]

all i saw was...arguing

Er, sorry. That was mainly my fault. :o

Don't forget that this topic has been covered many times before. Try a search on "backhand clear".

[killersmash]

itz okay... u argue coz u saw something not right and want to correct it...^.^
im actually used to it... remember my thread " grip for back hand " or something like that... lol u were arguing about using pan handle grip AGAINST thumb press

[Gollum]

itz okay... u argue coz u saw something not right and want to correct it...^.^
im actually used to it... remember my thread " grip for back hand " or something like that... lol u were arguing about using pan handle grip AGAINST thumb press

Oh dear, you had bad luck with your backhand threads. I don't often get so grouchy.