mixed doubles.

[kwun]

really been enjoying the mixed doubles game. played half day of double to warm up, and then played half day of mixed. in doubles, sometime i can just doze off and then just mindlessly smash smash smash. in mixed, speed and smart precise placement is more important than power.

i don't always win, actually, i lose most of the time, but winning is only secondary to fun.

it is difficult to find a partner though.

anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Byro-Nenium]

I know what you mean about this mixed game kwun. I'm a singles player and i normally only play singles in tournaments unless my partner wants to play or is required to play too.

In a doubles game the 4 players are of the same *** and therefore the shuttle is played to the most vulnerable part of the opponents side.

In mixed games however, the women are usually targeted more as for social reasons, people believe that it is easier to win that way. Being a guy, i feel that there is much less game in a mixed game than there is in a doubles game.

[Cheung]

It really depends how good the ladies are.

If she can clear and defend, u got a hard time.
If she can anticipate at the net, u got your work cut out to stay in the match.

Playing singles behind a girl is not much fun. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often to me. (Not playing mixed is not the reason!! :) )

[marshall]

I agree, a really good lady partner can give the opponents lots of trouble. Look at Minarti Timur of Indonesia and Rikke Olson of Denmark. Also Ra Kyung Min of Korea. To me it sometimes looks like opponents would rather clear to the man than challenge these ladies in the front court.

In the US, [at least what I've seen] good women players are always getting invitations to play mixed in tournaments. There must be a shortage.

marshall

[cooler]

i find playing mixed doubles the toughest because i have to keep track of 3 people while the game in play. I believe it is the lady's ability determine the success of the pair.

[viver]

I agree with your opinion. If the lady knows how and where to position herself in the mixed doubles game the chances to win are much higher. If you happen to find such a good partner, mixed doubles are really fun to play.

Viver

[kwun]

i wanted to learn some mixed tactics by watching tournament tapes, but i found that they often go to sides defense, due to the fact that the lady has strong defense and can take as much abuse as the guy.

in club play, i see people play more of the "traditional" style of mixed. where players are in either front/back or diagonal formation. rarely do they splits up to sides defense.

i find the traditional style more enjoyable. the non-traditional one isn't that much different from normal doubles.

[kwun]

i dont' agree. if you are in the traditional front/back and diagonal formation, it is hard to "target" the lady, as the lady is always close to the net. unless you have really sharp shots, you might end up being targeted.

i am not a single player, so i really can't compare between single/mixed, but i do find that a mixed game requires much more coordination than a normal doubles game. just because the game involve more smart placements in "boundary zones" instead of hard hitting.

i wonder what the ladies' perspective is...... anyone?

[Canyt]

Being a woman in the front is really scary... maybe I'm a doubles player and not quite use to the mixed format (front/back) yet...sometimes u just don't know which shots are yours and which shots u leave for your partner... i was taught never to lift the bird up to the men...and only hit shots that are reachable and defensive... is that really the case?

[Nicko]

Check out the articles on mixed doubles in the Technique area of this web-site

[Ricky]

I played a lot of mixed (actually I played double for almost all the times). One of the problem I found is that most my partners do not have enough wrist for high shot at the back of the court. As a result, this will become the major vulnerability of a mixed - my partner will either give a drop shot or return the shuttle poorly to the middle of the court, so that the guy of the opponent side will give a very hard smash. Is there any way to improve wrist (some of my female partners did ask me this question, but I just don't know how to answer) ?

Actually even though I prefer to use the so called "traditional" style (i.e. woman in front and man in back), the actual style is usually keep changing in a game. Mixed double can be more fun and challenging than man double if both ladies have good skills - they will attemp to win by position instead of hard smash - as a result, you will need more thinking and tactics in a game.

In international tournaments, ladies are almost as good as men these days (except for hard smash), they can both defense and offense. So the so called "traditional" style is no longer applicable.

[Magnus]

You've probably heard this one before but:
I found that one of the best tricks to improve wrist/underarm action is to play with the racquet cover on. It very difficult play, and it will almost not work at all if you don't use your underarm and wrist correctly... plus it strengthens the muscles efficiently. NOTE: use a cover which only covers the head, otherwise it will be way too hard!

Some suggest playing with wrist weights, but I find that mostly trains the upper arm and shoulder muscles, and it also actually hinders full wrist movement.

[viver]

As for tactics in mixed doubles, I believe that the lady and man should stand side by side when defending smashes because it's hard for one player to cover the court efficiently.

I used to play mixed doubles too and sometimes I partner the girl against a men doubles team. Not that I am the better player, in fact the lady was the strongest player of all of us. She was "just" a Chinese reserve team player and beat all of us in singles. She was also a specialist in mixed doubles game and I learn quite a bit playing with her. For instance, when in front she seldom stayed at the center. According to the situations she would either stand on right of left side (always moving during the game). In this way I need to cover the maximum 3/4 points of the court instead of 6 points.

Viver

[kwun]

viver, care to share other things that you learned from her?

[viver]

Kwun
The thing that I best remember about is her quickness. She made on court decisions very quick (i.e. situations where both players could go for the bird) -- take or leave it to the partner. Being able to that early, I never had the problem of guessing who will go for the shuttle and therefore our game would go smoothly. She was excellent to cover the net: fast, deceptive and lethal.

Probably what I learned from her is how to move and position myself around the court better in mixed doubles. For example, if she stayed more on the right side of the net, I would position myself more to the left side of the mid-court - she would cover the right and center of the net and half court attacks on the right side while I would cover the whole left side of the court plus the rear right court.

Viver

[kwun]

that's actually a good point. everyone seem to have an opinion that mixed doubles is a game for the men and the lady just do a few interception shots here and there.

but come to think of it, since the lady is at front, her positioning and movement controls the team's formation and ultimately the strategy. the guy just covers up the rest of the space and picks up whatever she can't hit.

[Byro-Nenium]

yeah, i agree with you if your talking about the front/back formation but what about when you defend? Side to side? Isn't 1 of the players always targeted? Even in doubles?

[viver]

On defensive a lot depends on the lady. In a side by side situation the lady is usually the target. It would be ideal if the lady could return the shots to the baseline or counter-attack and moving forward whenever the situation allows. When she is around the service line she will then be able to block the shots and we have again a front/back formation. Here I would say the lady is the determinant factor on how the team play.

[kwun]

defend is diagonal. the lady at the front, to one side, and the guy at mid court on the other side. the lady is always position on the other side of the shuttle, so when an attacking shot comes cross court, she has more time to react.

this way, she will be at the front of the net all the time, returning all shots upper hand, it is very hard to attack her that way.

[Cheung]

This is traditional thinking.

But I notice that top class mxd have the ladies droppping back away from the net in a diagonal line when defending.

What seems to be the case is......can the lady defend, and can she turn that defense into attacking position?

If a clear is hit to the ladies side, the men always take the shot unless the shutle goes right into the corner wheras then the lady takes it...

[kwun]

at our amateur level, unless the woman is strong, it is difficult to do a side defense. the woman will be targeted and the point is lost easily.

[Ricky]

Viver, I agree with this perfectly - as my coach told me almost exactly the same thing a few days ago, and I found this really useful in practical game play.

However I got one question - if the opponent start with a high shot to the lady (the lady is force to react with a start shot), then even the lady returns the shuttle with a drop shot the net, the man should cover the front, right ? Then it becomes difficult to switch back to the "lady-front-man-back" position. Any tips on dealing with such situation ?

[viver]

Ricky,
I guess you heard about the first 3 shots theory. How the game develops is dependent on these first 3 shots. In a situation when the lady is pushed to the back court a lot depends on her skills then:
- ideally is if she has a good smash she can try to attack the opposing lady player or whoever is more exposed and man can cover the net;
- if she excels in push/drives she can use smashes (flatter) and try to force opponents into push/drives situations where she can move forward gradually. Man cover net initially and moves to the side (gradually) as the lady moves forward;
- same result could also be achieved with fast drops but that depends the man capability to cover the net and going back quickly;
- if she has good defense she could just return with a clear and stay side-by-side
All the above are just suggestions that came to my mind now. All depends the quality of the lady's return and also her skills. Do you think that will work for you?

[viver]

Cheung,
You're quite a good observer. Some years ago for mixed doubles, experiences were done with ladies playing more predominantly at the back with men covering the net. The base for this logic was being man physically stronger and faster, they should provide better coverage at the net. The problem was finding powerful ladies attackers. At that time China had Lin Ying and Indonesia had Veravathy (not sure if I spelt it correctly??). If you watched the games where these ladies played, they did not have a problem staying at the baseline and performing the attacking tasks.

[Ricky]

Thanks for your advice, will try it on next game. The problem for me is that I perform relatively poor to cover the net, so the lady skills is a dominant factor to control the game under such situation. If we can't switch back to the "lady-front-man-back" position, we are quite vulnerable indeed.

Of course, this happened because both my lady partner and myself do not have all-round-skills (something I try hard to improve) !