Thailand Open 2007 - July 8 (Finals)

[kevinboy]

MS Boonsakvs CH
WS ZM vs ZL
MD LJJ/HJM vs Sudket/Tesana or JJS/LYD
WD GL/HS vs DJ/YY
XD HSH/HYM vs HHb/YY

[tommy_bun]

my feeling tells me Gao/Huang and He/Yu will win
MS--Chen hong
MS--Zhu Lin
MD--maybe Lyd/Jjs

YEahhhh China gets 4 out of 5:D:p

[TPA_AON]

my feeling tells me Gao/Huang and He/Yu will win
MS--Chen hong
MS--Zhu Lin
MD--maybe Lyd/Jjs

YEahhhh China gets 4 out of 5:D:p

COMON let THAI CROWD HAPPY TOMORROW ............BOONSAK SUU SUUU ...
He can beat Chen Hong by his today form !!!!

[phaichamnan]

My prediction

XD : HE HANBIN/YANG DU ---> very strong power
WS : ZHU LIN ---> fresh and inspire player
MS : BOONSAK ---> passed strongest opponent
WD : GAO LING/HUANG SUI ---> my favorite
MD : LEE YONG DAE/JUNG JAE SUNG ---> inspire and strong attack

[avataar]

Ponsana for the title - purely on the basis of his form in the tournament sfar.
Zhu lin shud take it, but will be pushed by Mi Zhou- shud b a close one

The chinese pair for the mixed title / koreans - mens dbls

WD - Lin/Sui

[LI De Quan]

My prediction

XD : HE HANBIN/YANG DU ---> very strong power
WS : ZHU LIN ---> fresh and inspire player
MS : BOONSAK ---> passed strongest opponent
WD : GAO LING/HUANG SUI ---> my favorite
MD : LEE YONG DAE/JUNG JAE SUNG ---> inspire and strong attack

HE Hanbin/YU Yang(MX) , not DU Yang ,
DU Jing/YU Yang(WD)
SHEN Ye/HE Hanbin(MD)

My prediction:
MS:Boonsak ---- CH:60%-40%
WS:ZHU Lin-----ZHOU Mi:51%-49%
MD:LEE Yong Dae/JUNG Jae Sung---HWANG Ji Man/LEE Jae Jin:50%-50%
WD:GAO Ling/HUANG Sui--YU Yang/DU Jing:60%-40%
XD:HE Hanbin/YU Yang---HWANG Yu Mi/HAN Sang Hoon:45%-55%

[hcyong]

All almost 50-50. Very hard to predict this one.
BP
ZL
LYD/JJS
GL/HS
HHB/YY

[badMania]

SCG Thailand Open FINALS
MEN'S SINGLES
Boonsak Ponsana vs Chen Hong -- the home player is on fire and most importantly, he has shown that he can beat almost ALL the top Chinese players like Lin Dan, Chen Jin, and Chen Yu recently. Adding Chen Hong to his scalp will make it a complete victory over ALL the Chinese MS players :cool: An impressive achievement that I believe no other players have done this year. Li Yongbo will be terrified

MEN'S DOUBLES
Lee Jae Jin/Hwang Ji Man vs Jung Jae Sung/Lee Yong Dae -- as I had expected, the two Koreans battle each other in the Final, with the more experienced Jung/Lee slightly edging it. But, Lee/Hwang have beaten their compatriot before.

WOMEN'S SINGLES
Zhu Lin vs Zhou Mi -- on paper, Zhu Lin should take the title, but, Zhou Mi is much more experienced.

WOMEN'S DOUBLES
Gao Ling/Huang Sui vs Du Jing/Yu Yang -- yawn...this could be China's only title here :cool:

MIXED DOUBLES
He Hanbin/Yu Yang vs Han Sang Hoon/Hwang Yu Mi -- a chance for both pairs to win their first title...and the Chinese has a slight edge. But, we have seen Han Sang Hoon's ability to play mixed in the Sudirman Cup...so...the Korean pair can spring some upset.

[LI De Quan]

XIAO Bao can beat Boonsak !

[Wong8Egg]

SCG Thailand Open FINALS
MEN'S SINGLES
Boonsak Ponsana vs Chen Hong -- the home player is on fire and most importantly, he has shown that he can beat almost ALL the top Chinese players like Lin Dan, Chen Jin, and Chen Yu recently. Adding Chen Hong to his scalp will make it a complete victory over ALL the Chinese MS players :cool: An impressive achievement that I believe no other players have done this year. Li Yongbo will be terrified


Don't forget BCL too, but I guess that's impressive enough already. :p
My bet on BP!

[rwchen]

For XD, He/Yu won the Asian Badminton Championship in April this year but they did lose to Han/Hwang before.

[kevinboy]

The MS final started?

[cesc fabrigas]

The MS final started?chen hong beat boonsak in rubbers sets

[LI De Quan]

CH 21-14 11-21 23-21 Boonsak

[kevinboy]

so the XD final started?

[kevinboy]

could someone please upload the live score?

[LI De Quan]

second gold for China!!!

[FU4EVA]

Hanbin HE [3] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=245)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Yang (F) YU (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=300)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)-http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Sang Hoon HAN [5] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=246)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Yu Mi HWANG (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=375)21-12 21-14

[tommy_bun]

Hmnnn seem like my prediction is coming true...N my feeling was rite also..Now it is Zhu lin's turn to take third title for china

[tommy_bun]

He/Yu could take their revenge by beating hwang/han straight set 21-12,21-14 :D

[Speed & Power]

WOW!!! Chen Hong is superb.....beats an on form Boonsak Ponsana at his home turf. Looks like Chen Hong can still make China proud despite not being in the Chinese national team

[volcom]

Chen Hong is awesome

[DinkAlot]

Chen Hong is awesome

Always has been, always will be. :D

[kevinboy]

[/URL][URL="http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=199"]Jae Jin LEE [4] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/draw.aspx?id=15777&draw=3)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Ji Man HWANG (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=200)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)-http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Jae Sung JUNG [3] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=197)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Yong Dae LEE (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=198)21-19 19-21 21-90:37

[jbchiong]

Ling GAO [1] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=293)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Sui HUANG (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=294)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)-http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Jing DU [4] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=299)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Yang (F) YU (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=300) - Walkover

Looks like they've done it again. :mad:

Thailanders would be mad and would ask their money back.

[phaarix]

Grats to Chen Hong :D!! Is that his first title this year? LYD/JJS lost!? Gotta admit I wasn't expecting that...

[kevinboy]

WS Final is still going on? Or they just stopped to upload the score?

[fyong]

Zhu Lin won over Zhou Mi 20-22, 21-5, 21-14

[DinkAlot]

Zhu Lin won over Zhou Mi 20-22, 21-5, 21-14

Yaaaaaay! Oooooooo, Zhu Lin's shiiiiiiney. :D

[Felicia_txh]

Jae Jin LEE [4] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=199)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Ji Man HWANG (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=200)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)-http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Jae Sung JUNG [3] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=197)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/KOR.gif[KOR] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=KOR)Yong Dae LEE (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=198)21-19 19-21 21-90:37
LYD/JJS lost is out of my expectation!!I thought they can win the title!!:o

[Felicia_txh]

Zhu Lin won over Zhou Mi 20-22, 21-5, 21-14
Congratz to Zhu Lin..:D:D

[pjswift]

Zhu Lin won over Zhou Mi 20-22, 21-5, 21-14
Guess she ran out of gas since she had to play qualifying as well. Hopefully she will not need to qualify for main draw anymore then WS will be more interesting.
Congrats to CH for his first title since being on his own.Hope this indicates he's physically getting back to form.I believe his determination to win in a close,crucial match is incomparable.
Expected BP to win but maybe it's a minute too far. Just realised he had a marathon match win over LHI. Which means he spent an extra 1 hour court time (equivalent of 1 tough match) before playing CH.Excellent indication of his stamina.BP has a lot to be proud of, even if he missed the title by a whisker.Taking out two tough KOR MS and the dangerous CJ. Would still bank on BP for the future.
As for MAS MD, it's good to see GTC/LWF rising to the occasion and on the road back to confidence.Best for MAS MD to see their outing as a tune up for CM07 rather than a disappointment.However, MAS MD exhibit a strange competitive trait: They can lose to 'non-opponents' and beat real opponents. Maybe they let their guard down playing MDs outside their training radar.Match preparations surely must include being wary of lesser MDs.Fortune favours the side that has done the homework on their opponent because match pace is so fast there's hardly time to think during play. 'Thinking ' needs to be done before matches regardless of opponents.Esp. like a fall back plan to reactivate your A game or key weapons when your opponents suddenly manage to deactivate your A game.

[virusvoodoo]

WOW!!! Chen Hong is superb.....beats an on form Boonsak Ponsana at his home turf. Looks like Chen Hong can still make China proud despite not being in the Chinese national team


Of course, that's why he's my idol!

I said it once and I'll say it again: If CHEN Hong is on fire, I don't think there's anyone who can stop him beside maybe an in-form Taufik HIDAYAT!

[angelatby]

I just about to say, i hope CHEN HONG to WIN, INDEED he made it ! ! !
Rubber Set : 21-14, 11-21, 23-21 !

YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CLELY]

Unbelievable, CHN sent 10 players to compete here but they grabbed 4 titles. Really fascinating! Special credit to CH, his stamina is so amazing, last week he contributed one point for SNGG victorious in Superliga and a week later he won MS crown too... Congratz!

But, order-to-play for today's final is rather weird. Why the organizer put the most wanted match (MS) at first show not last?!

[volcom]

I always have belief in Chen Hong :)

[Rachel Tan]

Its been good to see another pair of Rexy's charges,GTC-LWF raised to the occasion,being the only reprensentative in the semis despite losing to the more established Korean pair. As for the other 4 pairs of MD,it was a letdown for their early exit.Except for the 2 top Korean pairs,on paper the other opponents hardly a threat to our stronger MDs lineup. According to a local daily,our MDs have done enough preparation prior to the Thai Open.They only failed to reached 2 finals in all the tournament they take part,which is the Korean and German Open. I don't know whether if the defeat to a lower rank opponents shown that our MDs take their opponents lightly?Was it tremendous pressure whenever the expectation are high on them? Or was it Rexy not with them to guide them?What is went wrong? WC is just around the corner, I hope our MDs will buck up.Hopefully they will redeem their dissappointment in the China Masters and PO.Ganbateh!

[2cents]

I wrote several summaries at the end of last year. Chen Hong was the 2nd best (only 2nd to Lin Dan) in the whole year of 2006 with multiple 6 star titles. In the first half of 2007, He missed several SS after quiting the national team, now he's back in action again, Bravo.

Zhou Mi is also coming back strong, unfortunately, lost 3 sets in the finals. It's more sad that Zhou Mi cannot play the China master.

Those ex-CHN players may be able to grab the Sudirman cup from China.

[jasonmarc]

I just about to say, i hope CHEN HONG to WIN, INDEED he made it ! ! !
Rubber Set : 21-14, 11-21, 23-21 !

YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I m so sorry for Boonsak for not able to win Thai Open after playing very well to def CJ.....still unable to .......:crying:.......with the great form, home ground adventages,......:o...although Chen Hong is super, but its pity to let it slips away.....:crying:BP......BP.....try harder in China Master.....Thailand ends-up empty handed.....anyway....Congratulation to China winning 4 out of 5 titles.....superb performances....:D

[huangkwokhau]

Congratulations for Chen Hong, even I PAW boonsak for points...hehe...

Too bad that Zhou Mi could n ot win...so close....

[edwin]

As many forum members would agree, Lu Lan, Jiang Yanqiao, Wang Lin, and Wang Yihan are not quite in the same league as Zhang Ning or XXF yet. But what about Zhu Lin? Winning a title by defeating both Pi Hongyan and Zhou Mi is no easy task. Can this be an indication that Zhu Lin is pretty much very close to being in the same league as Zhang Ning and XXF?

[Han]

Ling GAO [1] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=293)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Sui HUANG (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=294)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)-http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Jing DU [4] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=299)http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/images/flags/CHN.gif[CHN] (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/players.aspx?id=15777&c=CHN)Yang (F) YU (http://www.tournamentsoftware.com/sport/player.aspx?id=15777&player=300) - Walkover

Looks like they've done it again. :mad:

Thailanders would be mad and would ask their money back.

WBF should implement rule against this repeating behaviour, make it a one-tournament suspension for those players, it's just bad for this emerging sport.

[Han]

As many forum members would agree, Lu Lan, Jiang Yanqiao, Wang Lin, and Wang Yihan are not quite in the same league as Zhang Ning or XXF yet. But what about Zhu Lin? Winning a title by defeating both Pi Hongyan and Zhou Mi is no easy task. Can this be an indication that Zhu Lin is pretty much very close to being in the same league as Zhang Ning and XXF?

The issue is consistency, so far only Zhang Ning is good in that department.

[Han]

Congratulations for Chen Hong, even I PAW boonsak for points...hehe...

Too bad that Zhou Mi could n ot win...so close....

Give Zhou Mi more time, base on the scoreline, I think she is still not 100% in tournament shape.

[kevinboy]

Give Zhou Mi more time, base on the scoreline, I think she is still not 100% in tournament shape.

I agree. Zhou Mi will no longer need to play qualifying round later. She will be much better!

[staples]

As many forum members would agree, Lu Lan, Jiang Yanqiao, Wang Lin, and Wang Yihan are not quite in the same league as Zhang Ning or XXF yet. But what about Zhu Lin? Winning a title by defeating both Pi Hongyan and Zhou Mi is no easy task. Can this be an indication that Zhu Lin is pretty much very close to being in the same league as Zhang Ning and XXF?

Not quite. I believe that Zhu Lin is still is the same class as Lu, Jiang, Wang L and Wang YH but she would be the best of them all in terms of consistency (for now).

Pi and Zhou aren't exactly the toughest opponents for the Chinese National team to beat. This is not to say that Zhu breezed through the tournament.

[huangkwokhau]

WBF should implement rule against this repeating behaviour, make it a one-tournament suspension for those players, it's just bad for this emerging sport.

Thats the problem for sport...CHN , so far this year, has demonstrated many walk outs...I think they should play eventhough Du Jing/Yu yang will lose 5-21 or 0-21...just to satisfy the organizer....

[djake]

As many forum members would agree, Lu Lan, Jiang Yanqiao, Wang Lin, and Wang Yihan are not quite in the same league as Zhang Ning or XXF yet. But what about Zhu Lin? Winning a title by defeating both Pi Hongyan and Zhou Mi is no easy task. Can this be an indication that Zhu Lin is pretty much very close to being in the same league as Zhang Ning and XXF?

Zhu Lin is by far more consistent than Lu Lan / Jiang Yanjiao / Wang Lin. She has won about 4-5 big tournaments in the last year. I think the main reason for her 'consistency' is that she's older than the other three (23 vs 21/21/19).

XXF only became consistent after the Athens Olympics (when she's 22-23). I'm sure the rest of the Chinese contingent will come good eventually. I'm a bigger believer of Lu Lan / Wang Yihan than Wang Lin / Jiang Yanjiao though.

[2cents]

Zhu Lin's problem is that she's thought not talented. (Please note there is no clear definition for talent)

Gong Ruina (born in 1981) and Zhou Mi were planed for Olympics 2008, and Zhang Ning (born in 1975, 6 years older than Gong Ruina) was supposed to be retired 7 years ago. Now Gong Ruina has been retired 3 more years, and Zhang Ning is still going to play next year for the Olympics.

It's all because of Li YB's decision. Not only because Zhnag ning came from the same hometown as LYB, but also in China, after players/coaches retire from the national team, they have to go back to their own provinces. And also their living conditions and incomes are dependent on their provinces' authorities. Therefore, LYB has to do whatever to make his province happy. That's the reason he has to fully support Zhang Ning, Yu Yang, Du Jing those players from Liao Ning province, which is LYB's hometown.

In order to play Zhang Ning, LYB has to retire Gong Ruina and Zhou Mi, even though they are the best generation for the 2008 Olympics. Even after retirement, Gong Ruina came back to defeat Zhang Ning, Xie Xinfang and Zhu Lin, and won the runner up in China national championship single events(lost only to Jiang Yanjiang in the final), and won all the matches in the team events and helped her team won the champion in the team event.

Since there are so many good players (especially in women side) in China. So it's purely LYB's decision to make whoever the champion of the world. Li YB also admitted himself when he's back the Liao Ning province. He said even though he knew Zhang Ning was not in good form, but for the glory of Liao Ning, he played Zhang Ning in the Sudirman cup. Of course, any Chinese WS can win any other WS in the Sudirman competition.

Now let's back to the original question. After LYB retired Gong RN and Zhou Mi, he had to use some younger players. Jiang YJ was the national champion, but she's regarded as lack of heavy weapons. Since the head coach for WS in China national team was from Jiang Su, another province. So Jiang YJ and Lu Lan (both from Jiang su) still join the national team under many objections.

So Zhu Lin came out finally as the winner for several tournaments. The reason is simply because there are not many better ones. Zhang Ning is becoming older and older (think about that Gong Rui, 6 year younger, already retired 3 years ago); Xie Xingfan always has 2 problems (physically not strong enough and mentally not hungry enough for the victory); Jiang YJ does not have heavy weapons, Lu Lan is very inconsistent, Wang Lin and Wang Yihan are too young...

Anyway, even though not given to many chances, Wang Yihan will be the next super star, she's very talented in my opinion.

[djake]

Zhu Lin's problem is that she's thought not talented. (Please note there is no clear definition for talent)

Gong Ruina (born in 1981) and Zhou Mi were planed for Olympics 2008, and Zhang Ning (born in 1975, 6 years older than Gong Ruina) was supposed to be retired 7 years ago. Now Gong Ruina has been retired 3 more years, and Zhang Ning is still going to play next year for the Olympics.

It's all because of Li YB's decision. Not only because Zhnag ning came from the same hometown as LYB, but also in China, after players/coaches retire from the national team, they have to go back to their own provinces. And also their living conditions and incomes are dependent on their provinces' authorities. Therefore, LYB has to do whatever to make his province happy. That's the reason he has to fully support Zhang Ning, Yu Yang, Du Jing those players from Liao Ning province, which is LYB's hometown.

In order to play Zhang Ning, LYB has to retire Gong Ruina and Zhou Mi, even though they are the best generation for the 2008 Olympics. Even after retirement, Gong Ruina came back to defeat Zhang Ning, Xie Xinfang and Zhu Lin, and won the runner up in China national championship single events(lost only to Jiang Yanjiang in the final), and won all the matches in the team events and helped her team won the champion in the team event.

Since there are so many good players (especially in women side) in China. So it's purely LYB's decision to make whoever the champion of the world. Li YB also admitted himself when he's back the Liao Ning province. He said even though he knew Zhang Ning was not in good form, but for the glory of Liao Ning, he played Zhang Ning in the Sudirman cup. Of course, any Chinese WS can win any other WS in the Sudirman competition.

Now let's back to the original question. After LYB retired Gong RN and Zhou Mi, he had to use some younger players. Jiang YJ was the national champion, but she's regarded as lack of heavy weapons. Since the head coach for WS in China national team was from Jiang Su, another province. So Jiang YJ and Lu Lan (both from Jiang su) still join the national team under many objections.

So Zhu Lin came out finally as the winner for several tournaments. The reason is simply because there are not many better ones. Zhang Ning is becoming older and older (think about that Gong Rui, 6 year younger, already retired 3 years ago); Xie Xingfan always has 2 problems (physically not strong enough and mentally not hungry enough for the victory); Jiang YJ does not have heavy weapons, Lu Lan is very inconsistent, Wang Lin and Wang Yihan are too young...

Anyway, even though not given to many chances, Wang Yihan will be the next super star, she's very talented in my opinion.


Zhou Mi and Gong Ruina also had a bad record against Mia Audina (the main thorn in the Chinese backside). That may also have hasten their departure.

[hcpoirot]

Zhu Lin's problem is that she's thought not talented. (Please note there is no clear definition for talent)

Gong Ruina (born in 1981) and Zhou Mi were planed for Olympics 2008, and Zhang Ning (born in 1975, 6 years older than Gong Ruina) was supposed to be retired 7 years ago. Now Gong Ruina has been retired 3 more years, and Zhang Ning is still going to play next year for the Olympics.

It's all because of Li YB's decision. Not only because Zhnag ning came from the same hometown as LYB, but also in China, after players/coaches retire from the national team, they have to go back to their own provinces. And also their living conditions and incomes are dependent on their provinces' authorities. Therefore, LYB has to do whatever to make his province happy. That's the reason he has to fully support Zhang Ning, Yu Yang, Du Jing those players from Liao Ning province, which is LYB's hometown.

In order to play Zhang Ning, LYB has to retire Gong Ruina and Zhou Mi, even though they are the best generation for the 2008 Olympics. Even after retirement, Gong Ruina came back to defeat Zhang Ning, Xie Xinfang and Zhu Lin, and won the runner up in China national championship single events(lost only to Jiang Yanjiang in the final), and won all the matches in the team events and helped her team won the champion in the team event.

Since there are so many good players (especially in women side) in China. So it's purely LYB's decision to make whoever the champion of the world. Li YB also admitted himself when he's back the Liao Ning province. He said even though he knew Zhang Ning was not in good form, but for the glory of Liao Ning, he played Zhang Ning in the Sudirman cup. Of course, any Chinese WS can win any other WS in the Sudirman competition.

Now let's back to the original question. After LYB retired Gong RN and Zhou Mi, he had to use some younger players. Jiang YJ was the national champion, but she's regarded as lack of heavy weapons. Since the head coach for WS in China national team was from Jiang Su, another province. So Jiang YJ and Lu Lan (both from Jiang su) still join the national team under many objections.

So Zhu Lin came out finally as the winner for several tournaments. The reason is simply because there are not many better ones. Zhang Ning is becoming older and older (think about that Gong Rui, 6 year younger, already retired 3 years ago); Xie Xingfan always has 2 problems (physically not strong enough and mentally not hungry enough for the victory); Jiang YJ does not have heavy weapons, Lu Lan is very inconsistent, Wang Lin and Wang Yihan are too young...

Anyway, even though not given to many chances, Wang Yihan will be the next super star, she's very talented in my opinion.

I don't think LYB still keeping ZN because she come from the same province of LYB. How funny and baseless.

THe only reason ZN still play for China is because she is a very good player. Of course, when she meet her teammates Zhou Mi, Gong Rui Na and XXF, she lost more than win with them.

But that of course a very funny reason to retired her. Why?

Because easy, during Olympic 2000, she had better record against any other WS players except her own team mates. She had better records against Camilla Martin, Mia Audina, Wang Chen and other ex China players.

Compare to Gong Rui Na who had worst record against Camilla Martin or Zhou Mi against Mia etc.

Thats the only reason why LBY keep her. After Olympic, looks like Gong Rui Na and Zhou Mi did not had any desire to play for China anymore. Its a weird decision if LYB wanted them to retire cause at that time , 2005, China only had 4 top WS. XXF, ZN, ZM and GRN. Thats why after ZM and GRN retired, LYB send lots and lots of Chn young WS to play in lots of events. From Zhu Lin, Lu Lan, JYJ, WYH , WL etc. And they now had Zhu Lin who play quite consistent.

[hcpoirot]

Another example why coach of all countries will never EVER retire his players based on how well they play against their temmates.

Example: Taufik H and Sony Dwi K. Sony had better match record against Taufik. So did Indonesia coach will retire Taufik first than Sonny?

Of course not!

Indonesia coaches and officials will try to made Taufik play as long as possible cause he is still the best player we had right now. He had a better record against any player in the world except for BCL and LD.

If Taufik still had desire to play badminton, I boldly predict Sonny will retire first than Taufik. If Taufik still want to play after Beijing Olympic.

[hcpoirot]

Back to Thai Open, China had very good results. Only enter 2 MS, 2 WS, 1 MD , 2 WD and 1 MX they had four titles with 1 MS semi final, 1 Men Doubles QF and 1 WD Runner Up.

If all the world wanted to at least give China a fight into any team events, they should at least only let China win 1 title from WD cause China only send their two top WD here.

Indonesia MS doing quite okay with Tommy and Simon but very terrible in MD. 4 pairs all lost in first and second round.

[hcpoirot]

Of course I also disagree with China decision not to play WD final cause they had next big tournament next week.

[2cents]

hcpoirot, I have to say that you know very little about China badminton. Zhang Ning was not the best, or even not among one of the best when LYB decided keep her instead of retiring her. Zhang Ning was the worst among Chinese team that time after Ye ZY, Gong ZC, Gong RN, and Dai Yun, and even after Wang Chen. Please ask Wang Chen, the victim of CHN team politics, don't suffering from your oversimplification.

It is more ridiculous for you to claim that "Gong Rui Na and Zhou Mi did not had any desire to play for China anymore (your words)". If your level of understanding is like that, you have to develop some common sense.

As a professional player, nobody wants to terminate their career as early as possible. Not Gong Ruina, not Zhou Mi, neither Ye ZY, neither Gong Zhichao. Even Ye Zhaoying and Gong Zhichao was forced to retire (kind of fired) when they were young and at their peak time. Both of them still played for their province for several years. Why they "did not have any desire play for China anymore" while play for their province inside China without any fame and any money?

All those players got fired, or you can argue it's a retirement. Of course, all players have ups and downs. Li YB will never say firing players based on politics. No coach would say that. But he would certainly pick the down time of the player, or small injuries, to ask the player to retire. Sometimes, even there was no reason could be found, he would say it's for the space for the training of young players (such as firing Gong ZC after Olympics). You cannot understand them just based on what they said.

So, It's obvious that it's your statement "How funny and baseless"(your words), instead of mine. If you can ask any insiders, you will probably find what I said.

[cooler]

hcpoirot, I have to say that you know very little about China badminton. Zhang Ning was not the best, or even not among one of the best when LYB decided keep her instead of retiring her. Zhang Ning was the worst among Chinese team that time after Ye ZY, Gong ZC, Gong RN, and Dai Yun, and even after Wang Chen. Please ask Wang Chen, the victim of CHN team politics, don't suffering from your oversimplification.

It is more ridiculous for you to claim that "Gong Rui Na and Zhou Mi did not had any desire to play for China anymore (your words)". If your level of understanding is like that, you have to develop some common sense.

As a professional player, nobody wants to terminate their career as early as possible. Not Gong Ruina, not Zhou Mi, neither Ye ZY, neither Gong Zhichao. Even Ye Zhaoying and Gong Zhichao was forced to retire (kind of fired) when they were young and at their peak time. Both of them still played for their province for several years. Why they "did not have any desire play for China anymore" while play for their province inside China without any fame and any money?

All those players got fired, or you can argue it's a retirement. Of course, all players have ups and downs. Li YB will never say firing players based on politics. No coach would say that. But he would certainly pick the down time of the player, or small injuries, to ask the player to retire. Sometimes, even there was no reason could be found, he would say it's for the space for the training of young players (such as firing Gong ZC after Olympics). You cannot understand them just based on what they said.

So, It's obvious that it's your statement "How funny and baseless"(your words), instead of mine. If you can ask any insiders, you will probably find what I said.2cents, at least this theory of your is not whacky as your previous one about BCL playing bad because his team mates steal his cellphone just before bcl's critical match:D

coaches have their reason to keep and fired certain players. As for LYB,

(1) he will keep whoever that he thinks can be most successful against china (badminton) foes.

(2)Yes, gong rui, zhou mi, wang chen have world beater quality but u forgot the second most important quality, obedience to the coach, ie a good solidier. No matter how great u r, if u have fiction with the national coach, your future isn't bright. LYB has his plan, if u disrupt or hard to work with under his plan, your days are numbered. This applies to real world job relationship with your boss as well.

To refute your point that gong rui is better than zhang ning at their prime, look who beat who in tournament that counts, not internal competiton.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10984

[cooler]

typo: *if u have friction with the national coach*


In 2003 WC, ZN beat G. Rui
In 2004 olympic, ZN gold, MA silver, zhou mi bronze. Gong R. lost to zhou mi. If GR was in great form, why she can't even get bronze even tho she was seeded #1

[2cents]

Zhou Mi and Gong Ruina also had a bad record against Mia Audina (the main thorn in the Chinese backside). That may also have hasten their departure.


...
Compare to Gong Rui Na who had worst record against Camilla Martin or Zhou Mi against Mia etc.
...


To refute your point that gong rui is better than zhang ning at their prime, look who beat who in tournament that counts, not internal competiton.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10984

Zhou Mi's head to head against Mia was not bad at all. Actually Zhou Mi won 6 times against Mia and lost only 5 times. Zhou Mi's lost mainly from early time before 1999. But after that, especially during 1999-2003. Zhou Mi won 5 times in a row without any lose.

Zhou Mi : Mia = 6:5

As Gong Ruina, she has even better head to head record against Mia, it's Gong RN's advantage with 5:3 leading.

Gong RN : Mia = 5:3

Now let's look at Zhang Ning's record against Mia, before firing Gong RN and Zhou Mi, Zhang Ning was tied with Mia as 4-4.

Zhang Ning : Mia = 4:4

And more interesting, in Swiss Open 2004 (just before Gong and Zhou's phase out), Zhang Ning lost to Mia, but Gong RN defeated both Camilla Martin and Mia. Especially, in the final, Gong RN beat Mia 2:0 and the 2nd game was even 11:0. What a great form of Gong RN before letting her go.

At swiss open 2004 just before her phase out, Zhang Ning lost to Mia but Gong RN defeat Camilla and Mia (11:0) to win the title.

Zhang Ning's final head to head against Mia is 5-4, with another win after Gong RN, Zhou Mi retired.

It doesn't make sense to check the head to head against Camilla Martin because that time Camilla was retired also. Even though, I remember both Zhou Mi and Gong RN did pretty good against Camilla just before they phased out. For example as I mentioned above, in Swiss open 2004.

In a word, it's purely politics. One excuse for Zhou Mi was her small injury of her left calf, but after she's fully recovered, she's refused to play for China team any more. So hers ending at national team was so miserable. Gong RN got a big celebration from the team to thank her for her great contribution though, it's kind of conclude her great adventure in the national team, but it's still against her willing. She was treated as a hero when she's fired, which was the only difference between her and Zhou Mi.

[2cents]

...

(2)Yes, gong rui, zhou mi, wang chen have world beater quality but u forgot the second most important quality, obedience to the coach, ie a good solidier. No matter how great u r, if u have fiction with the national coach, your future isn't bright. LYB has his plan, if u disrupt or hard to work with under his plan, your days are numbered. This applies to real world job relationship with your boss as well.


That's of course one of the reason. But it is also one of political reasons. That's especially true for Wang Chen, because she's fired directed from her refusing taking Li YB's orders.




To refute your point that gong rui is better than zhang ning at their prime, look who beat who in tournament that counts, not internal competiton.
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10984

Please check my previous post for more details.

[Han]

That's of course one of the reason. But it is also one of political reasons. That's especially true for Wang Chen, because she's fired directed from her refusing taking Li YB's orders.



Please check my previous post for more details.

I tend to agree with 2cents, I recall reading the Chinese article(may be from Sina, not very sure though) similar to what 2cents have mentioned. Regardless who had better records against one another, these Chinese women are all fantastic players and most of them were forced to quit due to LYB, no question about that.
It's all discussion here, no need to get too personal among us. LYB can play his type of politics as long as Zhang Ning continues to win and we have to give LYB credit as Zhang Ning does deliver so far and we can't say the same thing if Zhou Mi, Gong Zhichao, Ye Zhouying, Gong Ruina were the chosen ones. Anyway, this is the good problem for team China for having such a vast pool of talents :D

[huangkwokhau]

After reading you guy's posts....actually this is a good problem for China WS as they have many too choose at that time...only China has to groom WS now like Zhu Lin, Lu Lan and others as ZN and XXF may retire soon..it is sad and true that some of players were being asked to quit chinese national team. It is hurtful for Wang Chen or Zhou Mi and no wonder that they have hate toward LYB....like him or hate him,,LYB is still doing a job so far....

[edwin]

Thank you very much everyone for giving me the background info about the WS history of China.

Would you also happen to know the history behind WD as well? What is the reason why Ge Fei/Ge Jun retire in 2000 after the Olympics? They were only 25 at that time and are dominating the WD category. Is it for personal reason, political reason within team China (LYB related?), or any other reasons?

[huangkwokhau]

Thank you very much everyone for giving me the background info about the WS history of China.

Would you also happen to know the history behind WD as well? What is the reason why Ge Fei/Ge Jun retire in 2000 after the Olympics? They were only 25 at that time and are dominating the WD category. Is it for personal reason, political reason within team China (LYB related?), or any other reasons?

Thats interesting to find out as they won all Finals ( end of year tournaments) like 6 or 7 times in row....;);)

[2cents]

Thank you very much everyone for giving me the background info about the WS history of China.

Would you also happen to know the history behind WD as well? What is the reason why Ge Fei/Ge Jun retire in 2000 after the Olympics? They were only 25 at that time and are dominating the WD category. Is it for personal reason, political reason within team China (LYB related?), or any other reasons?

Good observations!

During 1996 Atlanta Olympics (I was there that time :) ), Ge Fei/Gu Jun were the only protégé of the whole Chinese team. They were the only hope for China to grab the 1st Olympic gold in history. So they were spoiled. Even Li YB had to flatter them for 2 reasons: 1) they were the only hope for China, even though Dong Jon did pretty good unexpectedly; 2) Li YB was not stable himself as the head coach, if Ge/Gu had not won the Olympic gold, Li YB would have been fired.

Because of this (dominating the world since teenages), Ge/Gu had never learnt how to deal with others (coaches, teammates, even themselves) in a normal relationships. So after 2000 Olympics, even though they were still the best in the world, but China could form at least 5 to 6 women doubles second to Ge/Gu, but still much better than the rest of the world. So Ge/Gu became hindrance to the other players and coaches, instead of the only hope for China team. Then letting them go was the best solution for the team's political game. There was no doubt political reasons. Plus Ge and Gu could not get along with each other. After retired from the national team, Gu went to University, and Ge still playing for Jiang Su province, even claimed mixed double national champion with her husband. Which clearly indicated that as a professional player (prize money as the only purpose for playing), Ge and Gu should have played much much longer.

[cooler]

Good observations!

During 1996 Atlanta Olympics (I was there that time :) ), Ge Fei/Gu Jun were the only protégé of the whole Chinese team. They were the only hope for China to grab the 1st Olympic gold in history. So they were spoiled. Even Li YB had to flatter them for 2 reasons: 1) they were the only hope for China, even though Dong Jon did pretty good unexpectedly; 2) Li YB was not stable himself as the head coach, if Ge/Gu had not won the Olympic gold, Li YB would have been fired.

Because of this (dominating the world since teenages), Ge/Gu had never learnt how to deal with others (coaches, teammates, even themselves) in a normal relationships. So after 2000 Olympics, even though they were still the best in the world, but China could form at least 5 to 6 women doubles second to Ge/Gu, but still much better than the rest of the world. So Ge/Gu became hindrance to the other players and coaches, instead of the only hope for China team. Then letting them go was the best solution for the team's political game. There was no doubt political reasons. Plus Ge and Gu could not get along with each other. After retired from the national team, Gu went to University, and Ge still playing for Jiang Su province, even claimed mixed double national champion with her husband. Which clearly indicated that as a professional player (prize money as the only purpose for playing), Ge and Gu should have played much much longer.

u r stating the obvious repeatedly. China is communism. LYB is the boss of the china national team of a communist country, he decides who stays, join and goes, and maybe even dictates player's out of court activities. There are no board room meeting or voting by other coaches. If there were such thing LYB has veto power anyway. EVERY DECISION MADE BY LYB IS POLITICAL. If his players don't perform or don't like his way, those players don't belong, whether u quit or sending a message of asking for a termination, a very simple concept.

[2cents]

u r stating the obvious repeatedly. China is communism. LYB is the boss of the china national team of a communist country, he decides who stays, join and goes, and maybe even dictates player's out of court activities. There are no board room meeting or voting by other coaches. If there were such thing LYB has veto power anyway. EVERY DECISION MADE BY LYB IS POLITICAL. If his players don't perform or don't like his way, those players don't belong, whether u quit or sending a message of asking for a termination, a very simple concept.

It's kind of correct. Theoretically, LYB made his decision mainly because of political reasons. Even in China, China communists #1 rule has always been the politics first.

If there is no political reason, China national team should select or oust players by tournaments results or competitions between the team. Even the player is given up by the national team, such as Chen Hong, he should be able to play individual if he still wants to.

Chen Hong was the first one because he got support from the director of the center for ping-pong and badminton (the boss of Li YB). So even Li YB repeatedly said that Chen Hong cannot play international tournaments any more, but only Li YB himself cannot stop Chen Hong.

We talk about Mia a lot, and Mia's retirement was a real retirement. So was Camilla Martin's. Both of them lost badly to Chinese players at the end. They cannot financially support themselves by playing international tournaments. So they retired. By this definition, almost all Chinese players' retirements are not.

Actually, it's Xie Xingfang who totally destroyed Mia. Not Zhang Ning as other posts suggested. Their head to head records:

Zhou Mi : Mia = 6:5
Gong RN : Mia = 5:3
Zhang N : Mia = 5:4
Xie XF : Mia = 11:0 (6:0 as partial records in IBF)

[cooler]

It's kind of correct. Theoretically, LYB made his decision mainly because of political reasons. Even in China, China communists #1 rule has always been the politics first.

If there is no political reason, China national team should select or oust players by tournaments results or competitions between the team. Even the player is given up by the national team, such as Chen Hong, he should be able to play individual if he still wants to.

Chen Hong was the first one because he got support from the director of the center for ping-pong and badminton (the boss of Li YB). So even Li YB repeatedly said that Chen Hong cannot play international tournaments any more, but only Li YB himself cannot stop Chen Hong.

We talk about Mia a lot, and Mia's retirement was a real retirement. So was Camilla Martin's. Both of them lost badly to Chinese players at the end. They cannot financially support themselves by playing international tournaments. So they retired. By this definition, almost all Chinese players' retirements are not.

Actually, it's Xie Xingfang who totally destroyed Mia. Not Zhang Ning as other posts suggested. Their head to head records:

Zhou Mi : Mia = 6:5
Gong RN : Mia = 5:3
Zhang N : Mia = 5:4
Xie XF : Mia = 11:0 (6:0 as partial records in IBF)
ur phonograph record player is skipping again, please stay on topic.

[pjswift]

WBF should implement rule against this repeating behaviour, make it a one-tournament suspension for those players, it's just bad for this emerging sport.
What's the WBF policy on W/O? Do the players get the ranking points and prize money for that stage? Last year the KOR MDs also behaved naughty: they did not play the final. In tennis, Haas was injured and Federer was given a W/O for R4 of Wimbledon. No ranking points or prize money were awarded to Federer for that stage.

[Krisna]

In BWF [not WBF], a w/o win in the finals counts as a win.

[Han]

What's the WBF policy on W/O? Do the players get the ranking points and prize money for that stage? Last year the KOR MDs also behaved naughty: they did not play the final. In tennis, Haas was injured and Federer was given a W/O for R4 of Wimbledon. No ranking points or prize money were awarded to Federer for that stage.

Regardless, something has to be done before it gets worse and it will. Tennis also implemented the 3 challenges allowed by each player relying on replay equipment on controversial calls which I think also is useful for badminton. I have to admit, badminton has yet to make good use of the technology available to help promoting this sport.(Sorry , that should be on another thread)

[robin7]

CH 21-14 11-21 23-21 Boonsak

CH, I'm proud of you. Prove it to LYB that u r still a great player & letting u go it's a BIG mistake.

Stupid Astro (& rain) made me miss the live broadcast.

[robin7]

CH 21-14 11-21 23-21 Boonsak

How CH won the 3rd game? Was he saving match point(s)? Who reached 20 points first?

Missed the live broadcast, thank to the rain & stupid Astro!

[pjswift]

CH, I'm proud of you. Prove it to LYB that u r still a great player & letting u go it's a BIG mistake.

Stupid Astro (& rain) made me miss the live broadcast.
SC07 was the first time I realised that Astro's not weatherproof.But I understand they compensate with some repeats if you let them know the telecast was rained off in your area. This might be a good excuse for you to request the QF telecast of CM07 as a make good! (and hope the weather stays fine.)
But if given a choice of badminton-friendly & weather-sensitive Astro or badminton-blind & weatherproof (& very broke) StarhubCV, I'll give the thumbs up to Astro, anytime.

[robin7]

Actually, it's Xie Xingfang who totally destroyed Mia. Not Zhang Ning as other posts suggested. Their head to head records:
Zhou Mi : Mia = 6:5
Gong RN : Mia = 5:3
Zhang N : Mia = 5:4
Xie XF : Mia = 11:0 (6:0 as partial records in IBF)

Wow, that was impressive for XXF!
ZN has gone thru a painful process after causing CHN to lose UC twice (both lost to Mia??). But ZN proved herself by winning WC03 & OG04 (beating GRN & Mia respective??)
Poor GRN & ZM didn't do well in OG04.
Anyway, ZN is more consistent & still my favorite player to win in Beijing.

I kinda like ZN's character, very gentle, modest & always smiling girl.
2cents, can u tell me more how is XXF as a person? TQ

[fyong]

How CH won the 3rd game? Was he saving match point(s)? Who reached 20 points first?

Missed the live broadcast, thank to the rain & stupid Astro!
CH reached the match point at 20-16, Boonsak saved 4 match points to level up.Then CH got the 2nd match point at 21-20, BP levelled again but this time CH never gave any chance to BP and won at 23-21.

[tommy_bun]

Zhang N : Mia = 5:4

I think zhang Ning's head to head record against Mia is more than 5-4.If im not mistaken It is 8-6

[Han]

How CH won the 3rd game? Was he saving match point(s)? Who reached 20 points first?

Missed the live broadcast, thank to the rain & stupid Astro!

Here's the re-run schedule.
THAILAND GOLD SERIES
Channel: SuperSport(80)
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2007
Time: 2:00:00 PM

Synopsis:
Badminton: BWF World Grand Prix: Thailand Gold Series 2007: Finals.

[robin7]

CH reached the match point at 20-16, Boonsak saved 4 match points to level up.Then CH got the 2nd match point at 21-20, BP levelled again but this time CH never gave any chance to BP and won at 23-21.

OIC. It could have gone either way. Thanks.