CCC Section 1 League Games Feedback

[Mikester]

Hi,

After playing a few times on sunday night i've felt that the format and structure of the League games is getting 'tiring'.

We need feedback from all our participants on how we can cater for the needs of our players.

1. What are the weaknesses of the League Games?
2. What suggestions for rectifying the weakness?

Mikester

[BadFever]

No system is perfect but I am happy with the way CCC League is run and organized. So, I would like to stay with whatever we are doing for the time being.

Therefore, no obvious weakness that need to be rectified from me.

Ask me again in 6 months time. :)

[Hagane]

Currently, I don't see the need to change things yet.
We have only started using the systems (tweaking as we go).

Ask me again in another 2-3 months, at least. :D

[DoublesPlease]

Hey Mikester,

If by tiring you mean getting a good run around I saw you sweating a bit last night which means one of my goals is being achieved. The other goals, in no particular order, are a friendly competitive environment at a reasonable cost with a supper for those that get hungry and want a chat.

There has been some interest shown in playing singles games. At the moment I don't believe we have enough players interested that we can have a regular singles element that is anywhere near balanced. Happy to hear suggestions on this. In fact, let's see how this goes, can I see a show of hands for singles. I know Ketut will jump in so let's start the list there.

1. Ketut

dp

[Hagane]

Sorry DP, not that interested in competitive singles. Especially if we have so many games to play ;)

[Fuji_]

Hi DP,

Singles... No thanks, as much as I would like to play every badminton format, my aging body only allows light doubles games. :o

No comment from me at this time.

Amid the freezing cold weather lately, games have been very enjoyable and I cannot ask for anything more. ;)

Keep up the good work and I am looking forward to warmer nights. :D

Thanks,
Fuji

[chris-ccc]

Hi Mikester,




We need feedback from all our participants on how we can cater for the needs of our players.




Thank you for starting this thread.

Many of our members@ccc have, in the past, given feedback and many good suggestions.

We encourage discussions like this. :):):)

Here is one of our threads, 'CCC Games Feedback', started by DoublesPlease, located at:
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42682

And thanks should also be given to Badminton Central... the place to facilitate our discussions.

With many of our suggestions, we would like to thank our following members@ccc who have carried out some of the work suggested, namely...
DoublesPlease
hkhung
smashed_1
helmut




I would like to stay with whatever we are doing for the time being.

Ask me again in 6 months time. :)







Currently, I don't see the need to change things yet.

Ask me again in another 2-3 months, at least. :D




Here, I like to say this......

Only those who don't like the way our CCC Badminton is organised, try to change it. :):):)

But then, I would like to add......
We all have an obligation to change it... but we just have to do it one step at a time.




I saw you sweating a bit last night which means one of my goals is being achieved.

The other goals, in no particular order, are a friendly competitive environment at a reasonable cost with a supper for those that get hungry and want a chat.




Agree...... Our member@ccc's feeling of goodwill towards others is the strongest magnet for drawing more players to our CCC Badminton. :):):)





There has been some interest shown in playing singles games...

I know Ketut will jump in so let's start the list there.

1. Ketut




Our other Section 1 members@ccc who would like to play the Singles events are as follows;
Mikester
Tony-P
Siva-S
BK168




...we have so many games to play ;)



With my experience playing at many clubs, I can say this...

Some players enjoy the quality of games and some players enjoy the quantity of games.

Yes... It is hard to please everyone. :):):)




Singles... No thanks...

Amid the freezing cold weather lately, games have been very enjoyable and I cannot ask for anything more. ;)




Yet... another player who is enjoying Doubles events only.


Cheers... chris@ccc

[Hagane]

But then, I would like to add......
We all have an obligation to change it... but we just have to do it one step at a time.

Chris, We do have an obligation to change. Given that we've only settled into this League less than 9 weeks ago, I believe in iterative and evolutionary changes rather than revolutionary changes.

At this current point in time, I'm content at the way the league is organised. Considering that we have been tweaking at game organisation, fitting in more people, trying various combinations, I think we should give it more time to settle, then see what's wrong with it.

It is inevitable that we would change the way things are organised, and there would be resistance to change. However, it is essential that any changes we make would be for the better, to improve rather than degrade it.

Hence, I would welcome suggestions, just that I myself can't offer any, and my thoughts are that it is too early after recently settling into something that most people currently enjoy.

[DoublesPlease]

Our other Section 1 members@ccc who would like to play the Singles events are as follows;
Mikester
Tony-P
Siva-S
BK168


Ketut
Mikester
Tony-P
Siva-S
BK168


...iterative and evolutionary changes rather than revolutionary changes...

I agree. For this week let us try the following:

(1) Singles games will be in addition to the regular doubles games, there will be no change to the doubles games. I don't see more than 1 or 2 singles games per player due to time and court restrictions.

(2) Make sure you indicate in the forum whether you will be playing singles.

(3) For this first week the outcome of the singles games will not be added to the team scores.

If we run singles games on a regular / semi-regular basis then they will be on an opt-in basis.

dp

[Mikester]

Hi all,

As you all know I am interested in playing singles but whether the League is a forum for this is for all the participants to decide. To me having an element of singles would keep me in the league because my singles has suffered immensely from playing just doubles.

Weaknesses of the league:
Varying strengths of doubles players and having quantity vs quality matches. Obviously it's difficult because we don't have a large pool to choose from.

Suggestions
Having quality matches between players of similar grade vs playing against all eg ranking players. However, the proviso is that we can keep the same format should the weaker players want to improve (plenty of suggestions in this area).

I don't want to step on other people's toes regarding this issue but it's better to be upfront about this rather than be miserable in the background.

Mikester

[yschin]

Only played in the league twice, happy as it is.

With my current physical conditions, i am struggling to stay in Section 1 doubles. Singles is out for me.

[BadFever]

Thanks to Mikester for his frank opinion. So I thought I might just post mine then. :rolleyes:

Here is my summary of players feedbacks,

Mikester - Find current system tiring but still want to play single. :confused::confused:
DoublesPlease - Objective achieved but change to include single. :confused::confused:
BadFever - No Change for the next 6 months.
Hagane - No Change for 3 months.
Fuji - No Change at all.
Chris - Neutral but list 4 voices wanting to play single.
yschin - No Change and only interested to play double.
*correct me if I am wrong cos my Ingris is only Year-1 Level*

I guess majority voice is overruled by goddamn *whatever* goddamn voice. Curse the goddamn voice. Democracy has failed. Dictatorship rulez. We change and we play single. :(:(:(

I wish the followings will post their opinions on this, instead of just seeing their names on Chris's post.
Ketut
Tony-P
Siva-S
BK168

Lastly before I totally rest my case. Feedback is a good way to help decide if there are any minor/major changes need to be improved on based on what we are currently doing. This is not a chat and chat and chat and chat but in the end, majority favorable opinions are completely ignored. Why I even bother typing all these, I must be crazy. BadFever voice, over and out.

[Mikester]

I just want to clear up something. When I referred to 'tiring' I did not mean physical exhaustion. I just found the format repetitive but that's just my personal opinion.

[DoublesPlease]

I guess majority voice is overruled...

Hey BadFever,

deep breath and all. No-one is being forced to play singles, not now, not later. This is one more *experimental* addition to the play. If there is enough interest in singles then we really need to explore what we can do. Right now I would like a show of hands, best way to do that is to make the play available. If there is enough genuine interest in a change then we can look at the options.

dp

[Hagane]

I just found the format repetitive but that's just my personal opinion.

A league, by definition, involves repeat games, played regularly :D
If you'd like to group up further, you would need constant dedication out of every group of players to try and form 4 teams and properly play out a league with a strict game format.

Which may, as you say, gets tiring as well :) (stricter format, even more repetitive).

Good side out of it is the fixed format and partnerships. It reduces randomness of pairings. However, given the timeframe, and the difficulty for some players to commit to a season, it is perhaps easier to maintain the current mixture of teams.

On addition of singles game: I would suggest that careful considerations be taken on how this addition will play out.

It may result in either:
1. Increased waiting time for players not playing singles (waiting for singles players to finish)
2. Decreased number of games - may not be such a bad idea, if we can get good quality games.

Point 1 is the highly contentious issue.
Waiting time should not be too long, with a good break in between a few sets such that you minimise fatigue. However, you would be placed in a situation where you need to juggle courts' availability (I don't suggest taking social court, as there are usually social players), and players' availability (as they maybe playing singles).

If you take out the players who are playing singles to be singles only matches, courts availability takes front view. I haven't been monitoring other threads, however, unless other nights are now open for non-members socials, you've locked in every night as a members only/competitive/CATS league. Not a good thing, alternatively, Sunday nights are now CATS/Competition only.

Granted that this view is coming from someone who's only settled in, and currently not interested in competitive singles. I only offer you this opinion as a counter-argument to your thoughts.

As I mentioned, I believe in iterative and evolutionary change. By definition, evolution attempts to change to a better direction. I'm not sure whether the League is the forum to incorporate singles as it is, or perhaps it is time to change. Depending on how it plays out, I may be interested, but at this instance, I'm more skeptical on it succeeding (Engineering seems to have fortified the skepticism in me!)

I would suggest that all current Section 1 players' opinions be heard before a rush to change things. Even as an opt-in, all visible impacts should be considered before causing a detrimental effect on anyone's experiences :)

[chris-ccc]

No-one is being forced to play singles......

This is one more *experimental* addition to the play. If there is enough interest in singles then we really need to explore what we can do. Right now I would like a show of hands, best way to do that is to make the play available.

If there is enough genuine interest in a change then we can look at the options.




Greetings to all members@ccc,

As a Badminton Coach and a Badminton Promoter, I have this dream... :):):)

Our CCC Badminton Club is to be promoting all 5 events, namely;
(1) Mens Singles
(2) Womens Singles
(3) Mens Doubles
(4) Womens Doubles, and
(5) Mixed Doubles

With more males than females playing @CCC at the present moment, we know that it would/could not happen in 2007.

And in 2007, with most of our male members not fit enough, we have been playing mainly Mens Doubles.

But I hope that by 2010, we could have enough male and female players to satisfy the dream of our CCC Badminton Club, that is to be playing all of the 5 events mentioned above. :):):)

Cheers... chris@ccc

[Mikester]

Obviously fitness and age does make a difference to the ability of playing singles and we don't seem to be getting any younger.

There are many senior managers at my workplace in their 40's and 50's who are extremely fit eg. going for a jogs during lunch time, participating in fun or entering trialthons. This is something we should aspire to and what keeps me motivated. Obviously this doesn't come from making excuses but comes from actions of routinely doing the hard exercises. And raising your heart that extra beat doesn't come easy.

So i've come to the conclusion that I will pursue my own singles training until the League decides to organise singles matches. Anyone interested, let me know.

I appreciate the very short stint i've had at the League and I have enjoyed the moments. Sorry Hagane for the accident. I hope your head is ok.

Mikester

[Hagane]

I appreciate the very short stint i've had at the League and I have enjoyed the moments. Sorry Hagane for the accident. I hope your head is ok.

See you occasionally on Sunday mornings :)
Sorry about your racquet though.. seems like my head is hard enough :o

Head is ok, thanks for asking :)

[chris-ccc]

Many of our members@ccc have, in the past, given feedback and many good suggestions.

We encourage discussions like this. :):):)

We all have an obligation to change it(our games structure)... but we just have to do it one step at a time.

Our member@ccc's feeling of goodwill towards others is the strongest magnet for drawing more players to our CCC Badminton. :):):)







For this week let us try the following:

(1) Singles games will be in addition to the regular doubles games, there will be no change to the doubles games.

(2) Make sure you indicate in the forum whether you will be playing singles.

(3) For this first week the outcome of the singles games will not be added to the team scores.

If we run singles games on a regular / semi-regular basis then they will be on an opt-in basis.







I believe in iterative and evolutionary changes rather than revolutionary changes.

...... and there would be resistance to change.







...... best way to do is to make the (Singles events) play available.







Our CCC Badminton Club is to be promoting all 5 events, namely;
(1) Mens Singles
(2) Womens Singles
(3) Mens Doubles
(4) Womens Doubles, and
(5) Mixed Doubles







So i've come to the conclusion that I will pursue my own singles training until the League decides to organise singles matches.

I appreciate the very short stint i've had at the League and I have enjoyed the moments.




Hi DoublesPlease,

After reading all these discussions again, it appears that our players@ccc have shied away from our Singles events. :):):)

Or, perhaps our Singles players are not reading this thread. :confused::confused::confused:

Unless you have received some Private Messages, it appears that our Singles events would not be introduced on Sunday 29-July-2007. :):):)

Cheers... chris@ccc

[hkhung]

With many of our suggestions, we would like to thank our following members@ccc who have carried out some of the work suggested, namely...
DoublesPlease
hkhung
smashed_1
helmut

never knew i would be mentioned in the section 1 thread.

I only wish more people from section 2+3 would be interested in doing a league.

On addition of singles game: I would suggest that careful considerations be taken on how this addition will play out.



It may result in either:
1. Increased waiting time for players not playing singles (waiting for singles players to finish)
2. Decreased number of games - may not be such a bad idea, if we can get good quality games.

i have learnt a lot from your very thoughful thinking, hagane.

I can always think about what i want but at the same time CCC is about its members but not decision made by one person or a group of people.

say in regarding to a recent CCC friendly VS Danny Tan's coaching team 27/7 friday nite, i would love to have best of 3 for singles event.

But i don't see my team members wanting to do that. Hence, singles are organized as one set.