Badminton: Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan [Archive]

ixory

07-29-2007, 09:02 PM

Badminton: Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan

By : K.M. Boopathy
NST Online (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/Sport/20070730092810/Article/index_html)

CHINA’S World No 1 Lin Dan may start as the early favourite to win the World Championships but national singles coach Misbun Sidek regards Indonesian Taufik Hidayat as the player who could deny Malaysia glory at Putra Stadium on Aug 3-9.
Taufik, the World No 10, has been playing down his chances recently and even said he might not play in the World Championships as his wife is due to give birth to their first child just a few days before the Championships start but Misbun remains convinced that the Olympic champion will be making a strong bid for a second world crown.

While Misbun is happy that his charge Lee Chong Wei, the World No 3, has hit form at the right time, the coach is cautious about Taufik, who can beat anyone if he puts his mind to it.

"As far as I am concerned, Taufik will be the most dangerous player in the World Championships and will a huge threat to every top shuttler in the tournament. Whether he is fit or not, he looks dead-set for this tournament," said Misbun.

"Due to his world ranking, Taufik will meet one of the top four seeds, which includes Chong Wei, in the quarter-finals and this will be a concern for title contenders.
"Having his first child will be extra motivation and all the more reason for him to win the world title as a present.

"Chong Wei is in good form. In fact he has exceeded my prediction by showing such rapid progress, but he needs to pace himself. It could be good if the draw puts Taufik and him in different halves."

A quick look at Taufik’s recent record will show that he has the tendency to under-perform, even throw away matches sometimes, in lead-up tournaments to a major event.

Taufik lost to Ng Wei of Hong Kong in the third round of the Malaysia Open in 2004 then went on to win the Athens Olympics gold medal a month later.

The Indonesian’s 15-5, 15-0 loss to eventual winner Chong Wei in the quarter-finals of the 2005 Malaysia Open turned out to be a false alarm as he went on to convincingly beat the Malaysian in the semi-finals en route to the World title in Anaheim several weeks later.

Taufik’s loss to unheralded Nguyen Thien Minh of Vietnam in the second round of the Philippines Open last week should be a warning to his rivals that he is pacing himself and taking him lightly in the World Championships will be foolhardy.

Chong Wei’s only consolation is that he had defeated Taufik in the semi-finals of the China Masters three weeks ago and this would have boosted the Malaysian’s confidence should they meet at any stage of the World Championships.

The other player who has been performing well and would have posed a threat is Boonsak Ponsana but the top shuttler from Thailand will not be around as he will be playing in the World University Games in Bangkok on Aug 8-18.

This means it will be a battle between Taufik and the rest but with the home ground advantage, Misbun hopes Chong Wei will prevail and pull off something spectacular.

robin7

07-29-2007, 11:23 PM

CHINA’S World No 1 Lin Dan may start as the early favourite to win the World Championships but national singles coach Misbun Sidek regards Indonesian Taufik Hidayat as the player who could deny Malaysia glory at Putra Stadium on Aug 3-9.
Since when the WC is changed to Aug 3-9?:D

ixory

07-30-2007, 12:13 AM

Since when the WC is changed to Aug 3-9?:D
must be typing error..hehehe..:D

samuel882

07-30-2007, 12:15 AM

must be typing error..hehehe..:D

u MEAN u type the whole news here? Wow ! :eek: U are so hard working :D:D

azabaz_ipoh

07-30-2007, 12:37 AM

missed the ones? 13-19 right? :D

ixory

07-30-2007, 12:48 AM

u MEAN u type the whole news here? Wow ! :eek: U are so hard working :D:D
Off topic : Not melah,i just used instant way..copy and paste...from NST site,no time for typing..hehe:D:D..

i mean a journalist might typing it wrong..hehe:D:p...i also didn't realise until u mentioned about it

missed the ones? 13-19 right? :D
yap,correct..:D

ants

07-30-2007, 01:34 AM

Misbun might be right. Once Taufik is focused in a tournament. He is all fired up.

jeremyjuve

07-30-2007, 01:42 AM

100% agree...let's hope that we can see a LCW vs TH finals, it's gonna be a cracking one

CLELY

07-30-2007, 03:05 AM

Seems Misbun so certain that LCW has 100% self confidence to beat any shuttler including world number one player but TH is exceptional. The one and only is TH who can destroy MAS dream to grab MS WC title for the first time. Hmm, TH get high appreciation here despite only ABC title that reached by him thus far in this year! Yeah, must be according TH track record -- hard to defeat him in prestigious event that he determines to win it.

I guess TH will be placed on 8th seed with condition Boonsak and CH are absent. Because no major tourney until upcoming WC, we can estimate the seeding position of 2007 WC based on 26/07/07 WR :

1. Lin Dan ; 2. Lee Chong Wei ; 3. Chen Jin ; 4. Bao Chunlai ; 5. Peter Gade ; 6. Chen Yu ; 7. Kenneth Jonassen ; 8. Taufik Hidayat

Who will meet the most dangerous player (as Misbun said) in quarterfinal of 2007 WC? LD, LCW, CJ or BCL?

abedeng

07-30-2007, 03:08 AM

Taufik does deserve the high rating Misbun gave him, now all he has to do ....... is to show up and play.

azabaz_ipoh

07-30-2007, 03:29 AM

Taufik does deserve the high rating Misbun gave him, now all he has to do ....... is to show up and play.

agree 100%. :D oops, message too short. hmmmm......agree more....110% :)

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 03:34 AM

Hope his baby is due before WC or after WC...otherwise he quits and flies home if baby is due in the middle of WC....in the last 2 weeks...Bulutangkis.com reported that TH more likely will not play, then Sutiyoso ( PBSI chairman) vowed and begged him to play....then 3 days ago, TH voiced his determination to win WC after getting bad results this year....I am not sure and hope he has desires to play....so much drama with TH's episode...;);):rolleyes::rolleyes::confused::confu sed::mad:

abedeng

07-30-2007, 04:20 AM

Let's hope the drama extends, on court at the Putra Stadium in two weeks time .....

bic33

07-30-2007, 04:34 AM

i wish that taufik has his son before WC... so that he could give his new born son/daughter a gold medal from WC... :D

samuel882

07-30-2007, 04:46 AM

Seems Misbun so certain that LCW has 100% self confidence to beat any shuttler including world number one player but TH is exceptional. The one and only is TH who can destroy MAS dream to grab MS WC title for the first time. Hmm, TH get high appreciation here despite only ABC title that reached by him thus far in this year! Yeah, must be according TH track record -- hard to defeat him in prestigious event that he determines to win it.

I guess TH will be placed on 8th seed with condition Boonsak and CH are absent. Because no major tourney until upcoming WC, we can estimate the seeding position of 2007 WC based on 26/07/07 WR :

1. Lin Dan ; 2. Lee Chong Wei ; 3. Chen Jin ; 4. Bao Chunlai ; 5. Peter Gade ; 6. Chen Yu ; 7. Kenneth Jonassen ; 8. Taufik Hidayat
Who will meet the most dangerous player (as Misbun said) in quarterfinal of 2007 WC? LD, LCW, CJ or BCL?

If TH confirmed participating.. Only 2 players he will meet on his path at QF.. Either LD or LCW... I fink the draw will be put him against LD seems LCW will have a slighter advantages of being home players here...

bananaboy

07-30-2007, 08:43 AM

If people think LYB is arrogant, then I can tell you Misbun is full of crap. Shut up and just train LCW.

george@chongwei

07-30-2007, 08:50 AM

and make sure LCW will win d WC.. as a coach, MISBUN should not scared of anyone... so scady cat misbun... shame on u

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 08:58 AM

If people think LYB is arrogant, then I can tell you Misbun is full of crap. Shut up and just train LCW.

Actually LYB is arrogant..bananaboy....you do not have to defend him...even media agree also...LYB has a reason to be arrogant since his team has done well in badminton dept...

You can not say that if people think LYB is arrogant then Misbun is full of crap....Misbun is a player and a coach and he knew the game better than we are...how dare you you issue that statement...may be you are full of crap..;)

ants

07-30-2007, 09:03 AM

We have no right to disrespect Misbun or any other coaches. Misbun have his weakness as well as LYB.

hsengsping

07-30-2007, 09:04 AM

If TH confirmed participating.. Only 2 players he will meet on his path at QF.. Either LD or LCW... I fink the draw will be put him against LD seems LCW will have a slighter advantages of being home players here...
He could draw any of top 4 seeds in QF if he is seeded 8 and everybody played to seeding

bic33

07-30-2007, 09:09 AM

the media hypes it all... the title should be "MISBUN, CAUTIOUS ABOUT TAUFIK" and all of you who are not that good (in misbun's knowledge and skill) just shut up... he knows what he is doing.. and if you believe that you know better than him, well, apply for a job as malaysia's new coach... :D

samuel882

07-30-2007, 09:12 AM

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 09:14 AM

Jessica

07-30-2007, 09:39 AM

cooler

07-30-2007, 11:18 AM

Actually we no need to argue who is talking crap or really wise,just wait and see in the coming WC soon,all the question marks and answers will be found there.Really feel exciting as the WC is coming near and near.
Nah...
Win or lose in the coming WC, debates will continue ...

If TH lose to LCW or LD, TH lack focus due to distraction as a expected-father-to-be. If TH wins, he is focused because he want a medal as gift for his wife and baby. WC wont change anything for LYB, some still thinks he's arrogants regardless lol. If LCW wins, he revenged on LD in front of home crowd. If LCW lost to LD, it is due to high expectation pressure from misbun and home crowd. If LD lose, he can't win in Malaysia. If LD win, he suppose to because he's #1 lol. Maybe he would be better if gade or wacha wins:D

jimbo

07-30-2007, 11:53 AM

ants

07-30-2007, 12:25 PM

If he dont win at least make some upsets.

bananaboy

07-30-2007, 12:26 PM

Actually LYB is arrogant..bananaboy....you do not have to defend him...even media agree also...LYB has a reason to be arrogant since his team has done well in badminton dept...

You can not say that if people think LYB is arrogant then Misbun is full of crap....Misbun is a player and a coach and he knew the game better than we are...how dare you you issue that statement...may be you are full of crap..;)

Which part of that particular article doesn't sound like it is coming from a coach speaking from technicality? It is just a bunch of crap that sounds like it is coming from a casual fan... eg. Taufik can win when he prepares + motivation because of a new born??? Is Misbun now a psychologist or something?:rolleyes:

Let me tell you why Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan... the real reason...

LCW can meet with Taufik in any possible round, whereas to meet Lin Dan, LCW has to get into the final. If LCW is to lose to Lin Dan(which he will, I may add:p), then Misbun can safely say it is still good... but if LCW is to get eliminated by Taufik in early rounds(like 3rd round, or quarter final), then Misbun will too get somewhat blame of it as well.

By the way, his so-called "expert analysis" sounds like it is written by a fan here in BC forum.:rolleyes:

cooler

07-30-2007, 12:30 PM

Which part of that particular article doesn't sound like it is coming from a coach speaking from technicality? It is just a bunch of crap that sounds like it is coming from a casual fan... eg. Taufik can win when he prepares + motivation because of a new born??? Is Misbun now a psychologist or something?:rolleyes:

Let me tell you why Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan... the real reason...

LCW can meet with Taufik in any possible round, whereas to meet Lin Dan, LCW has to get into the final. If LCW is to lose to Lin Dan(which he will, I may add:p), then Misbun can safely say it is still good... but if LCW is to get eliminated by Taufik in early rounds(like 3rd round, or quarter final), then Misbun will too get somewhat blame of it as well.

By the way, his so-called "expert analysis" sounds like it is written by a fan here in BC forum.:rolleyes:

it does make sense.
There is no need for LCW to fear LD if LCW can't get pass TH in early round anyway. It shows how much confidence:rolleyes: misbun has on his #1 MS, LOL.

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 12:43 PM

Which part of that particular article doesn't sound like it is coming from a coach speaking from technicality? It is just a bunch of crap that sounds like it is coming from a casual fan... eg. Taufik can win when he prepares + motivation because of a new born??? Is Misbun now a psychologist or something?:rolleyes:

Let me tell you why Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan... the real reason...

LCW can meet with Taufik in any possible round, whereas to meet Lin Dan, LCW has to get into the final. If LCW is to lose to Lin Dan(which he will, I may add:p), then Misbun can safely say it is still good... but if LCW is to get eliminated by Taufik in early rounds(like 3rd round, or quarter final), then Misbun will too get somewhat blame of it as well.

By the way, his so-called "expert analysis" sounds like it is written by a fan here in BC forum.:rolleyes:

He has a reason to voice his fear or opinion...he said that based on his analysis in the last couple of years on TH's performance and how TH upped his games, etc..thats his fear...but you do not have a right to say he is full of crap.....the way you say it..seems like you are an EXPERT already which you are not at all....thats my problem...

If you said so...you should say that LYB is full of crap when he said that China would sweep all titles in CHN master plus all CHN final in 3 categories...thats really full of craps...;)

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 12:56 PM

samuel882

07-30-2007, 04:52 PM

Misbun is a reputable badminton player and coach..for you to accuse he is full of craps , just showing "no respect" at all to Misbun....which I do not think you have rights at all...pls be respectfull
Wah .. :eek: Since when Misbun become so popular here? hehe:D:D

cooler

07-30-2007, 04:58 PM

Wah .. :eek: Since when Misbun become so popular here? hehe:D:D-when Li Mao resigned and went to korea
-when LCW came out of his slump:p

chibe_K

07-30-2007, 07:03 PM

Did Misbun imply LCW will not have a chance to meet LD in finals ?

abedeng

07-30-2007, 08:37 PM

bic33

07-30-2007, 09:53 PM

all right, he heard you all, misbun will play in the WC...
kidding... lol

pjswift

07-30-2007, 09:59 PM

People, this is the psychological war phase of the WC battle. What Misbun, LYB, Mulyo etc say during this time are meant to deflect some pressure on their respective players as well as add more belief in them.

And there is more than a grain of truth in what Misbun said, I saw it in the 3rd game in the CM match between Taufik and LCW. Taufik was really in great form and only faded out in the final third of the decider.
Agree.At least Misbun is wiser now not to predict how far his players will go, so they have the freedom to play their best without worrying whether they will meet his expectations. That's the way to do it , Misbun! Predict the competition, not your own.
Have to say Misbun is doing a terrific job on LCW. Let's see whether he can help transform the Ferrari into an A380 which can fly faster, farther on LESS FUEL. But Misbun really has to sharpen the match preparations in terms of tactics. Tactics determine fuel usage. Superior tactics means less physical energy is needed.(I believe that's how BP took out CJ in straight sets in CM07; how many top players have ever beaten CJ in 2 games in the last 2 years? Maybe only BP?)
TH is most dangerous at QF stage cos that's when he's warmed up and he still has 95% fuel reserve so he can actually last almost an hour.The best time to meet him is in the finals cos he can only last 2 games. His opponent just need to keep him busy for 43 minutes and if TH hasn't won by then,he will lose it. So kudos to LCW for defeating TH at his best.
Wouldn't worry about LD.When LD comes to MAS nowadays (or SIN or INA), he is sitting for his Mental Stamina Exam while playing badminton. I'll be impressed if he gets past the 3rd round because the MAS crowd will be cheering for his opponents, regardless of who they are.

shanisen3200

07-30-2007, 10:04 PM

badminto_expert

07-30-2007, 10:07 PM

Yes... This is the one:

Misbun Lebih Khawatirkan Taufik Ketimbang Lin Dan http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/images/M_images/pdf_button.png (http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=2274) http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/images/M_images/printButton.png (http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2274&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=2) http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/images/M_images/emailButton.png (http://www.badminton-indonesia.com/joomla/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=2274&itemid=2) Written by Antara News Tuesday, 31 July 2007 Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Pebulutangkis nomor satu asal China Lin Dan boleh saja sejak awal difavoritkan memenangi Kejuaraan Dunia, tetapi pelatih tunggal nasional Malaysia Misbun Sidek menganggap Taufik Hidayat dari Indonesia sebagai pemain yang bisa menggagalkan harapan Malaysia di Putra Stadium pada 13-19 Agustus mendatang.

Taufik, pemain ranking 10 dunia, baru-baru ini mengatakan mungkin tidak akan ambil bagian dalam Kejuaraan Dunia karena istrinya akan melahirkan, tetapi Misbun tetap menegaskan bahwa juara Olimpiade itu akan berusaha keras untuk meraih mahkota dunia keduanya.

Meskipun Misbun senang karena pemain asuhannya Lee Chong Wei, peringkat tiga dunia, mencapai kondisi yang diharapkan pada saat yang tepat, pelatih itu juga berhati-hati terhadap Taufik, yang bisa mengalahkan siapapun jika ia menginginkannya.

"Sejauh pengetahuan saya, Taufik akan menjadi pemain paling berbahaya dalam Kejuaraan Dunia dan akan menjadi ancaman besar bagi setiap pebulutangkis top dalam turnamen tersebut. Apakah ia fit atau tidak, ia tampaknya bertekad besar untuk turnamen ini," kata Misbun seperti dikutip situs resmi Asosiasi Bulutangkis Malaysia (BAM), Senin.

"Berdasarkan peringkat dunianya, Taufik diperkirakan akan bertemu salah satu empat unggulan teratas, termasuk Chong Wei, di perempatfinal dan ini akan menjadi perhatian bagi para pesaing untuk meraih gelar," tambah Misbun.

"Memiliki anak pertama akan menjadi movitasi lebih dan menjadi alasan utama baginya untuk memenangi gelar sebagai hadiah."

Pandangan sepintas atas catatan penampilan Taufik akan menunjukkan bahwa ia cenderung buruk, bahkan kadang-kadang meninggalkan pertandingan, dalam turnamen-turnamen menjelang event besar.

Taufik kalah dari pemain Hong Kong Ng Wei pada putaran ketiga Malaysia Terbuka 2004 kemudian memenangi medali emas Olimpiade Athena sebulan kemudian.

Kekalahan pemain asal Indonesia itu, 5-15, 0-15 dari Chong Wei yang akhirnya menjadi juara, di perempatfinal Malaysia Terbuka 2005 menjadi petunjuk yang menyesatkan ketika ia dengan meyakinkan mengalahkan pebulutangkis Malaysia itu di semifinal saat menuju gelar juara dunia di Anaheim beberapa pekan kemudian.

Kekalahan Taufik dari pemain tidak terkenal asal Vietnam Nguyen Thien Minh pada putaran kedua Filipina Terbuka dua pekan lalu seharusnya menjadi peringatan bagi saingan-saingannya bahwa ia sedang mengambil ancang-ancang dan menganggapnya enteng pada Kejuaraan Dunia jelas merupakan kesalahan.

Satu-satunya hiburan bagi Chong Wei adalah ia pernah mengalahkan Taufik di perempatfinal China Masters empat pekan lalu dan ini akan menambah rasa percaya dirinya jika mereka bertemu di babak manapun di Kejuaraan Dunia.

Akhir pekan lalu, Taufik mengatakan bahwa ia sangat ingin memenangi gelar Kejuaraan Dunia tahun ini karena tahun depan turnamen tersebut tidak digelar menyusul diselenggarakannya event olahraga empat tahunan Olimpiade.(*)
Sony Siap ke Kejuaraan Dunia

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Pebulutangkis peringkat ke-11 dunia Sony Dwi Kuncoro sudah sembuh dari cedera pinggang yang dialaminya di Filipina Terbuka dua pekan lalu, dan siap menghadapi Kejuaraan Dunia.

Pelatih tunggal putra Hendrawan di Jakarta, Senin, mengatakan, Sony yang pekan lalu masih merasakan sakit pada cederanya itu, saat ini sudah 80 persen pulih.

"Saya rasa waktu yang tersisa cukup bagi dia untuk pulih 100 persen dan siap menghadapi Kejuaraan Dunia," katanya.

Kejuaraan Dunia akan digelar di Kuala Lumpur 13-19 Agustus mendatang.

Pinggang Sony cedera saat memenangi pertandingan perempatfinal Filipina Terbuka atas pemain Singapura Ronald Susilo yang memaksanya mengundurkan diri dari semifinal menghadapi Lee Chong Wei dari Malaysia.

Akhir pekan lalu, Hendrawan, juara dunia 2001, mengatakan jika hingga awal pekan ini pemain asuhannya itu belum pulih ia memilih untuk tidak mengikutsertakan Sony.

"Kita lihat dulu dua tiga hari ke depan, kalau dia bisa pulih mungkin tetap berangkat, tetapi kalau belum pulih lebih baik dia fokus ke Olimpiade saja, toh tahun depan masih bisa ikut Kejuaraan Dunia," kata Hendrawan waktu itu.

Sementara itu pasangan putri Jo Novita/Greysia Polii juga masih belum 100 persen kembali seperti sediakala.

Jo yang sempat istirahat panjang akibat cedera lutut saat bertanding di Asian Games 2006 di Doha, Qatar, meski menyatakan sudah tidak ada masalah dengan kakinya, namun dalam tiga turnamen yang diikutinya ia mengaku masih belum dapat bermain lepas.

"Kemarin pada turnamen pertama (Thailand Terbuka) saya masih takut-takut, tetapi ternyata tidak terjadi apa-apa sehingga pada kejuaraan berikutnya sudah lebih berani," ujar Jo.

Sementara Greysia, yang selama Jo absen sempat berpasangan dengan Vita Marissa, mengatakan harus kembali melakukan penyesuaian dengan pasangan lamanya itu.

"Harus menyesuaikan diri lagi, apalagi Jo habis cedera. Saya juga harus menyesuaikan mental saya," ujar Greysia yan menyebutkan saat ini kekompakan mereka sudah mencapai 80 persen.

Pasangan yang saat ini berperingkat ke-29 dunia itu hanya mengikuti tiga turnamen sebagai pemanasan menjelang Kejuaraan Dunia.

Pada Thailand Terbuka pasangan tersebut mencapai 16 besar, tersingkir di putaran pertama China Masters Super Series dan terhenti di semifinal Filipina Terbuka.(*)

Badminton: Misbun fears Taufik more than Lin Dan

By : K.M. Boopathy
NST Online (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/Sport/20070730092810/Article/index_html)

CHINA’S World No 1 Lin Dan may start as the early favourite to win the World Championships but national singles coach Misbun Sidek regards Indonesian Taufik Hidayat as the player who could deny Malaysia glory at Putra Stadium on Aug 3-9.
Taufik, the World No 10, has been playing down his chances recently and even said he might not play in the World Championships as his wife is due to give birth to their first child just a few days before the Championships start but Misbun remains convinced that the Olympic champion will be making a strong bid for a second world crown.

While Misbun is happy that his charge Lee Chong Wei, the World No 3, has hit form at the right time, the coach is cautious about Taufik, who can beat anyone if he puts his mind to it.

"As far as I am concerned, Taufik will be the most dangerous player in the World Championships and will a huge threat to every top shuttler in the tournament. Whether he is fit or not, he looks dead-set for this tournament," said Misbun.

"Due to his world ranking, Taufik will meet one of the top four seeds, which includes Chong Wei, in the quarter-finals and this will be a concern for title contenders.
"Having his first child will be extra motivation and all the more reason for him to win the world title as a present.

"Chong Wei is in good form. In fact he has exceeded my prediction by showing such rapid progress, but he needs to pace himself. It could be good if the draw puts Taufik and him in different halves."

A quick look at Taufik’s recent record will show that he has the tendency to under-perform, even throw away matches sometimes, in lead-up tournaments to a major event.

Taufik lost to Ng Wei of Hong Kong in the third round of the Malaysia Open in 2004 then went on to win the Athens Olympics gold medal a month later.

The Indonesian’s 15-5, 15-0 loss to eventual winner Chong Wei in the quarter-finals of the 2005 Malaysia Open turned out to be a false alarm as he went on to convincingly beat the Malaysian in the semi-finals en route to the World title in Anaheim several weeks later.

Taufik’s loss to unheralded Nguyen Thien Minh of Vietnam in the second round of the Philippines Open last week should be a warning to his rivals that he is pacing himself and taking him lightly in the World Championships will be foolhardy.

Chong Wei’s only consolation is that he had defeated Taufik in the semi-finals of the China Masters three weeks ago and this would have boosted the Malaysian’s confidence should they meet at any stage of the World Championships.

The other player who has been performing well and would have posed a threat is Boonsak Ponsana but the top shuttler from Thailand will not be around as he will be playing in the World University Games in Bangkok on Aug 8-18.

This means it will be a battle between Taufik and the rest but with the home ground advantage, Misbun hopes Chong Wei will prevail and pull off something spectacular.

X Ball

07-30-2007, 10:15 PM

WC will be won by Misbun through LCW ! No two ways about this.

badminto_expert

07-30-2007, 10:17 PM

Why Misbun said: Taufik better than Lin Dan?

Taufik Hidayat: Because Taufik one of the complete player (better skill) also his backhand can go anywhere and also backhand smash very fast. Netting also very very good. Taufik's jump smash also good. Netting and drive are important for taufik to do attack, so he can smash... This is combination.. and very nice to see his play. Taufik movement fast (not very fast)

LinDAN: not complete player (his skill better only smash, drive, attact clear)
Lindan: netting and backhand not good. His backhand only defence. He can't use his backhand for attack. But Lindan movement very fast.

I don't thing Taufik will be come and play for WC 2007.

People, this is the psychological war phase of the WC battle. What Misbun, LYB, Mulyo etc say during this time are meant to deflect some pressure on their respective players as well as add more belief in them.

And there is more than a grain of truth in what Misbun said, I saw it in the 3rd game in the CM match between Taufik and LCW. Taufik was really in great form and only faded out in the final third of the decider.

badminto_expert

07-30-2007, 10:21 PM

Hi X Ball,

We hope malaysia and Indonesia can prevent China to take the all..So LYB can't arrogant again right. Maybe Malaysia can take MS or Indonesia can take MS. Maybe Malaysia can take MD or Indonesia can take MD. Maybe Malaysia can take WD or Indonesia can take WD. and Indonesia can take XD.

But WS difficult.. China very strong..Maybe hongkong or taiwan or France can take..

WC will be won by Misbun through LCW ! No two ways about this.

X Ball

07-30-2007, 10:34 PM

robin7

07-30-2007, 11:04 PM

If people think LYB is arrogant, then I can tell you Misbun is full of crap. Shut up and just train LCW.

This is the "Taufik factor" that I keep mentioning for this coming WC. The logic is very simple, LD & LCW will be the top 2 seeds, TH will be seeded much lower (probably 8). The story will be different if TH is seeded higher than LD & LCW.

According to many including Misbun & myself think that LD & TH are the players who can potentially dethrone LCW. Since TH is seeded lower, LD or LCW has a possiblity of meeting TH as early as QF.

Common sense tells us that LD or LCW will have to eliminate TH before they can face off each other in the final. History also tells us that, whoever beat TH lost the next round as seen in MO07 & CM07. I guess both Misbun & LYB are well aware of it.

As a coach, Misbun's concern is understandable. LYB also stated that LCW is more threatening than TH as far as this WC is concerned. Well, it could be a part of the psychology game.

I think YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP & the one who needs to SHUT UP!

huangkwokhau

07-30-2007, 11:06 PM

This is the "Taufik factor" that I keep mentioning for this coming WC. The logic is very simple, LD & LCW will be the top 2 seeds, TH will be seeded much lower (probably 8). The story will be different if TH is seeded higher than LD & LCW.

According to many including Misbun & myself think that LD & TH are the players who can potentially dethrone LCW. Since TH is seeded lower, LD or LCW has a possiblity of meeting TH as early as QF.

Common sense tells us that LD or LCW will have to eliminate TH before they can face off each other in the final. History also tells us that, whoever beat TH lost the next round as seen in MO07 & CM07. I guess both Misbun & LYB are well aware of it.

As a coach, Misbun's concern is understandable. LYB also stated that LCW is more threatening than TH as far as this WC is concerned. Well, it could be a part of the psychology game.

I think YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP & the one who needs to SHUT UP!

Also BCL beat TH then BCL lost to LCW

OneToughBirdie

07-30-2007, 11:58 PM

WC will be won by Misbun through LCW ! No two ways about this.
I understand you are a true LCW diehard #1 fan...but I get nervous with your over-confidence. I would like to see a nice guy like LCW win WC and prove you right, but I soon rather see him play under the radar, much like an underdog where he plays well. Do all the cheering (for LCW) and booing (for the rivals) in the stadium where it counts and helps...
as for someone said he is impressed if LD make it past the 3rd round, I bet LD would make it to the SF at least, unless he meet TH early on. I would be looking for LD dives:eek:, as I noticed LD is not doing that stuff as much as he did in previous tourney... is it age or fear of recurring injury???
TH is very dangerous and play well in high profile tourney, the rewards from INA govt is huge therefore provides bigtime incentive to win WC, cos INA govt recognize winning OLY, WC, TC, IO more than any other Opens...
BCL, well if BAO does not play like a girl :p :D(don't blame me, Cooler said that girlie stuff many times, so blame Cooler, hahaha!!!) and if the draw is kind to him, then BAO may have a chance....still my darkhouse for this tourney, the guy who is ranked high, can surprise everyone and so far flying under the radar is CJ...as a gambler, I place my bet on him to win. Let the games unfolds.

samuel882

07-31-2007, 12:07 AM

CJ will be the 1 to watch for this WC.. Just when most of us predict the winner will be between LCW/LD/TH..
Watch up this guy.. He will come out from nowhere then be a dangerous treat to the above 3 players.

CLELY

07-31-2007, 01:21 AM

As a dark horse, I hope Boonsak will win. But I understand that he is not playing, so my next bet (other than LD, LCW and TH) would be Gade and BCL. I really really really hope Gade will win... He is not young anymore and he deserves to win the WC. Btw, has he won WC before?

PG best record in WC arena is become 2001 Seville WC Runner-Up, lost to Hendrawan in finale.
DEN had booked MS World Champion through Peter Rasmussen (1997) and Flemming Delfs (1977).

Become dark horse, it's still possible for PG to reach top position here like he did in last January/07 when he crowned MAS SS title with unwell condition. But of course, he must overcome one of the top-three contenders LD/LCW/TH and this is totally hard task.

indra

07-31-2007, 01:51 AM

X Ball

07-31-2007, 01:51 AM

cooler

07-31-2007, 02:41 AM

Yes let it unfold....it is all in the stars and is clear as mud to me. LOL
let me refresh your muddy memory, korea open, 2007... LOL

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40234&page=2 my post #17, last pic

X Ball

07-31-2007, 02:55 AM

let me refresh your muddy memory, korea open, 2007... LOL

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40234&page=2 my post #17, last pic

Have you not heard of this :

"People living in past glories will pay the price in the future" :D

cooler

07-31-2007, 02:56 AM

Have you not heard of this :

"People living in past glories will pay the price in the future" :D

but people who counts their chicken before they hatch fair much much worst LOL

X Ball

07-31-2007, 02:58 AM

but people who counts their chicken before they hatch fair much much worst LOL

I will be the first to remind you, no less, when the time comes.

And I understand you will be here. That would be great when that time comes. :)

cooler

07-31-2007, 03:00 AM

I will be the first to remind you, no less, when the time comes.

And I understand you will be here. That would be great when that time comes. :)

no thanks, ur were wrong before.
ex, as recent as china master less than 1 week ago. U do have muddy memory

X Ball

07-31-2007, 03:03 AM

no thanks, ur were wrong before.

Me wrong ? NEVER!

cooler

07-31-2007, 03:04 AM

Me wrong ? NEVER!

I rest my case.

X Ball

07-31-2007, 03:06 AM

no thanks, ur were wrong before.
ex, as recent as china master. U do have muddy memory

Well yours is not clear either. It is like the black pot calling the nice kettle black.:D

X Ball

07-31-2007, 03:10 AM

I rest my case.

Admitting your argument is flawed by saying case closed is a wise move.;) Saves you from further embarassment.

Loh

07-31-2007, 04:02 AM

Times have changed!

Imagine those days when Misbun had to eat humble pie with only Hafiz to coach yet the latter was not making any headway. All the accoladades seem to flow to the Chinese singles coach Li Mao, who hit back at the eleventh hour for not being treated appropriatedly by the authorities with his move back to South Korea . His disappearing act left poor LCW, who looked up to him as a fatherly figure, completely stranded and lost in the international arena.

Now LCW, back to his original roots with Misbun, is a changed man after his growing-up experience with Li Mao. Misbun has imbued in him a more relaxed style, unhurried but confident of himself.

And LCW is back to his winning ways again. So Misbun can also relax and once again enjoy the pleasant exuberance of his protege, sans Hafiz.

Times have really changed for both Misbun and LCW.

pjswift

07-31-2007, 04:15 AM

Did Misbun imply LCW will not have a chance to meet LD in finals ?
Because LD won't make it to the finals....

Loh

07-31-2007, 04:22 AM

I agree with you wholeheartedly, badminton expert.

X Ball, he is only badminto_expert (whatever this game is) but you are the badminton expert. Don't concede your status!:D

pjswift

07-31-2007, 04:27 AM

Have you not heard of this :

"People living in past glories will pay the price in the future" :D
Is this an original? If so, you are quite a sage. How about coding it ,like give it a shorthand?We have so many posts of not letting go of past glories in spite of present realities.It 'll be good for you to respond with a signature stamp and we understand it instantly.
I can respect past glories but if we don't appreciate progress in the present, then how far can badminton go forward?

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 12:13 PM

Misbun is a reputable badminton player and coach..for you to accuse he is full of craps , just showing "no respect" at all to Misbun....which I do not think you have rights at all...pls be respectfull

I don't see any of you say the same thing when it comes to LYB(being so called "arrogant") whom I may add has accomplished much more than Misbun.:rolleyes:

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 12:21 PM

Han

07-31-2007, 02:00 PM

I understand you are a true LCW diehard #1 fan...but I get nervous with your over-confidence. I would like to see a nice guy like LCW win WC and prove you right, but I soon rather see him play under the radar, much like an underdog where he plays well. Do all the cheering (for LCW) and booing (for the rivals) in the stadium where it counts and helps...
as for someone said he is impressed if LD make it past the 3rd round, I bet LD would make it to the SF at least, unless he meet TH early on. I would be looking for LD dives:eek:, as I noticed LD is not doing that stuff as much as he did in previous tourney... is it age or fear of recurring injury???
TH is very dangerous and play well in high profile tourney, the rewards from INA govt is huge therefore provides bigtime incentive to win WC, cos INA govt recognize winning OLY, WC, TC, IO more than any other Opens...
BCL, well if BAO does not play like a girl :p :D(don't blame me, Cooler said that girlie stuff many times, so blame Cooler, hahaha!!!) and if the draw is kind to him, then BAO may have a chance....still my darkhouse for this tourney, the guy who is ranked high, can surprise everyone and so far flying under the radar is CJ...as a gambler, I place my bet on him to win. Let the games unfolds.

Regardless how much we love Lee Chong Wei, we have to be aware that he has yet to win any big events like All England, Olympic, World Championship or even Asian Games.(Most of the Malaysian players have not achieve that but we keep on saying how great they are, quite inappropriate) The only advantage LCW has in this WC is playing at home while he's back to his prime. On the contrary, Taufik and Lin Dan have won the big events so they've an edge. I have to say for LCW to win, he has to have a favorable draw avoiding Taufik else Lin Dan shall prevail.
If Chong Wei emerge as winner despite tough draw then he will be a true champion in my opinion. LCW is an excellent player who has yet to achieve greatness and lets hope he fulfill our dream this time. Malaysia Boleh!

ants

07-31-2007, 02:25 PM

Even if he didnt manage to win this WC.. which i hope not. I'm sure many will respect him for the player that he is.

cooler

07-31-2007, 03:02 PM

Admitting your argument is flawed by saying case closed is a wise move.;) Saves you from further embarassment.how could i debate someone who is NEVER wrong, and have no evidence to back that up either? I'm flawed and yet made a wise move, which one is it?LOL

virusvoodoo

07-31-2007, 03:43 PM

Nah...
Win or lose in the coming WC, debates will continue ...

...Maybe he [it] would be better if gade or wacha wins:D

YES...That way there will be less controversies afterward!

But I would prefer GADE over WACHA, since he is no longer young and will be retiring soon after the 08 Olympics (I hope he takes this title as well)! :D

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 03:48 PM

LET'S GO GADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D LET'SSSSSSSSSSSS GOOOOOO!!!!:cool::cool::cool:

Han

07-31-2007, 03:54 PM

Even if he didnt manage to win this WC.. which i hope not. I'm sure many will respect him for the player that he is.

Yes, I agree. Lee Chong Wei is as good as Wong Choon Hann during his prime, feared by many and came close to win the WC2003.

ants

07-31-2007, 04:01 PM

Wong Choong Han is da man! Still got the hops and the weapon at this time. Too bad he was hampered by injuries.. if not he would be in the Top 10 by now.

virusvoodoo

07-31-2007, 04:18 PM

here is the fact:

TH is a real threat to LCW
LCW is a real threat to LD
LD is a real threat to PG
PG is a real threat to Wacha
Wacha is a real threat to BP
BP is a real threat to CJ
CJ is a real threat to Sony

And so...on:D

I like this analysis...fairly accurate!

I would like to add:
CJ is a real threat to Sony, Simon, & PG
CY is a real threat to PG
BP is a real threat to CJ & CY
BCL is a real threat to TH
LCW is a real threat to BP & BCL
PG is a real threat to BCL

and in my opinion, Taufik Hidayat is a real threat to anyone if he in form and focused with Lin Dan & Lee Chong Wei being close seconds (because this is on LCW's home ground).

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 04:33 PM

I don't see any of you say the same thing when it comes to LYB(being so called "arrogant") whom I may add has accomplished much more than Misbun.:rolleyes:

I never bash LYB...and I do not like him..but he has done a great job for china ...you should see myprevious posts before your comments...I never say that LYB is full of craps...I respect him but does not mean that i like him...
You are not polite at all...:mad::mad:
Misbun has not done as much as LYB..but it does not mean that he is full fo craps.....thats very mean...what qualified you to say that to Misbun....??

I think you are suddenly of becoming of being EXPERT to call someone who has been in badminton more than 2 decades...then you are full of craps...

samuel882

07-31-2007, 04:48 PM

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 04:56 PM

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 05:41 PM

Same can be said to LD as well.. He is world no. 1 for such a long periods.. However. Never win the Major titles in OG/AG
While WC/AE/AG/OG considered the "Grand Slam" in badminton. A player only can be throned as "LEGENDS" ONLY he manage to win both events.:rolleyes:

So, are you saying that Yang Yang, Zhao JianWau 赵剑华(spelling?) are not legends just because they have not won OG and AG together??? Any player before 1992 has no chance of being called a legend simply because they can not win an olympic medal???:rolleyes::confused::confused::confused: Only legend in the whole history of badminton is Taufik Hidayat... well you have great standard.:rolleyes:

Lin Dan, Being the #1 and winning the most tournaments like 3, 4 years in a row still can't prove that he is the best in this century. I am glad that Federer actaully won Grand Slam before, or else everyone will doubt that he is not the best either.:rolleyes:

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 05:51 PM

I never bash LYB...and I do not like him..but he has done a great job for china ...you should see myprevious posts before your comments...I never say that LYB is full of craps...I respect him but does not mean that i like him...
You are not polite at all...:mad::mad:
Misbun has not done as much as LYB..but it does not mean that he is full fo craps.....thats very mean...what qualified you to say that to Misbun....??

I think you are suddenly of becoming of being EXPERT to call someone who has been in badminton more than 2 decades...then you are full of craps...

What is there to be respectful about a coach who eats humble pie all the time while coaching Hafiz, then gets lucky and one of his charge starts to show progress, then this coach starts to talk like he is the best psychologist + coach in this world??? :rolleyes: Before the progress of LCW, and Misbun only had Hafiz in his charge, he never bash Hafiz much, now he is just a complete jerk to Hafiz because now Hafiz is useless("of no value" if you want a better word) to him.

I don't expect you to respect me, especially if you don't like me to telling it as it is. I am not here to win a popularity contest by agreeing with every other member here, and I am just here to speak my mind... if you don't like it, well you can feel free to bash me all you want, just make sure you are prepared to receive as much from me as you give me.

Honestly, I would respect Misbun for what he has brought out of LCW, but I definitely will NOT respect the additional comments from him(which again sounds like it is coming out from a fan) :rolleyes:

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 05:59 PM

What is there to be respectful about a coach who eats humble pie all the time while coaching Hafiz, then gets lucky and one of his charge starts to show progress, then this coach starts to talk like he is the best psychologist + coach in this world??? :rolleyes: Before the progress of LCW, and Misbun only had Hafiz in his charge, he never bash Hafiz much, now he is just a complete jerk to Hafiz because now Hafiz is useless("of no value" if you want a better word) to him.

I don't expect you to respect me, especially if you don't like me to telling it as it is. I am not here to win a popularity contest by agreeing with every other member here, and I am just here to speak my mind... if you don't like it, well you can feel free to bash me all you want, just make sure you are prepared to receive as much from me as you give me.

Honestly, I would respect Misbun for what he has brought out of LCW, but I definitely will NOT respect the additional comments from him(which again sounds like it is coming out from a fan) :rolleyes:

Well....let me put it this way......that makes you and me are in the different class of society...;);)..sure I will give you more pain as long as you deserve it...I also speak my mind also..unfortunately we are in different take...jsut dont think you have a right...anyway...just be prepared as you said..!!!;);)

bananaboy

07-31-2007, 06:10 PM

Well....let me put it this way......that makes you and me are in the different class of society...;);)..sure I will give you more pain as long as you deserve it...I also speak my mind also..unfortunately we are in different take...jsut dont think you have a right...anyway...just be prepared as you said..!!!;);)

:p I am always prepared to take it back, since I always deal enough out to everyone(only the ones who deserve it though:p) else.:D

I wouldn't say we are in "different class" of society, since unless you look down on me, or else I definitely don't look down on you(and at times, I do find you make alot of sense in other threads):cool:

We have different view points here, and I respect your right to disagree with me, but you can't change my mind about Misbun in THIS 1 situation "ONLY"... I will admit that I am wrong, if I am wrong, but in this case, it is more of personal reasoning than anything else. I don't like people who talk like hell when they have the "advantage", and keep their mouth shut when they know they are in trouble(or something similar)... just like Misbun in this case.

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 06:15 PM

:p I am always prepared to take it back, since I always deal enough out to everyone(only the ones who deserve it though:p) else.:D

I wouldn't say we are in "different class" of society, since unless you look down on me, or else I definitely don't look down on you(and at times, I do find you make alot of sense in other threads):cool:

We have different view points here, and I respect your right to disagree with me, but you can't change my mind about Misbun in THIS 1 situation "ONLY"... I will admit that I am wrong, if I am wrong, but in this case, it is more of personal reasoning than anything else. I don't like people who talk like hell when they have the "advantage", and keep their mouth shut when they know they are in trouble(or something similar)... just like Misbun in this case.;)

Okay...just dont like you use the word" full of craps" so demeaning..thats all.....if you read carefully..he does not mean that way.....also Misbun is known as a person does not that much, not like LYB which I have to say and everyone in badminton society agree that he has big mouth.....look down other players and say bad things, etc...thats not professional...
anyway..I rest my case...

cooler

07-31-2007, 06:18 PM

Same can be said to LD as well.. He is world no. 1 for such a long periods.. However. Never win the Major titles in OG/AG
While WC/AE/AG/OG considered the "Grand Slam" in badminton. A player only can be throned as "LEGENDS" ONLY he manage to win both events.:rolleyes:

it is quite sad to keep seeing taufik fans only remembering his success and not his failures. I keep hearing and reading how TH won MS at 2006 doha. Yes, he did win, the individual title. Earlier in the same week in the team event where china beat INA 3-1, LD beat TH in 3 sets, 21-17, 17-21, 21-16. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38598
Hmm., how come this doha match persistently and conveniently not mentioned by the taufik fans? I watched that match too on cctv5. Too bad no videos on this TH lost. So for those TH fans saying LD hasnt won at Asian game, i say phoowie. This team win by LD over TH is just as valid as the individual match. A win is a win, and it is at doha. A real TH fan should know and recognize this fact.

samuel882

07-31-2007, 06:23 PM

it is quite sad to keep seeing taufik fans only remembering his success and not his failures. I keep hearing and reading how TH won MS at 2006 doha. Yes, he did win, the individual title. Earlier in the same week in the team event where china beat INA 3-1, LD beat TH in 3 sets, 21-17, 17-21, 21-16. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38598
Hmm., how come this doha match persistently and conveniently not mentioned by the taufik fans? I watched that match too on cctv5. Too bad no videos on this TH lost. So for those TH fans saying LD hasnt won at Asian game, i say phoowie. This team win by LD over TH is just as valid as the individual match. A win is a win, and it is at doha. A real TH fan should know and recognize this fact.

I fink we are talking about TH personal performance in a singles event here. It does not count no matter how many times TH lost to LD in TEAM match.:p. Please face the reality that LD failed to win OG/AG ..
I am still fink TH is incomplete with his medals collection w/o AE title in his bag...

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 06:31 PM

it is quite sad to keep seeing taufik fans only remembering his success and not his failures. I keep hearing and reading how TH won MS at 2006 doha. Yes, he did win, the individual title. Earlier in the same week in the team event where china beat INA 3-1, LD beat TH in 3 sets, 21-17, 17-21, 21-16. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38598
Hmm., how come this doha match persistently and conveniently not mentioned by the taufik fans? I watched that match too on cctv5. Too bad no videos on this TH lost. So for those TH fans saying LD hasnt won at Asian game, i say phoowie. This team win by LD over TH is just as valid as the individual match. A win is a win, and it is at doha. A real TH fan should know and recognize this fact.

I think it is about the medal..LD beat TH in team so all CHN team got all gold medals and standing on podium together...so LD was not stand out..:(

TH beat LD in individual event so TH got gold medal alone by himself and stood on higher podium..plus single events are being played after Team event so people always remembered the last one......

We all agree that LD/TH/LCW/CH/CJ are in the same league...same thing in tennis..people remember Serena wins mostly Grass tournaments...nobody remembers her winning at French Open. ( clay)....or just like American idol...if you perform well in 1st song then screw up in 2nd song..people will remember that you suck.....and you get voted out...

USAfan

07-31-2007, 06:31 PM

Finally, kiss and make up. Anyway, both of you, bananaboy and hau-ge have a diffeence in opinion. Both of you have every right to agree and disagree. Just that the boy must respect the gege, that's all out of respect. LOL !!!!!
After all being said and done, we are still badminton fans with passion.

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 06:36 PM

2cents

07-31-2007, 06:41 PM

... Earlier in the same week in the team event where china beat INA 3-1, LD beat TH in 3 sets, 21-17, 17-21, 21-16. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38598
...

Actually in Doha, Lin Dan beat Taufik twice and was defeated by Taufik once.

2cents

07-31-2007, 06:43 PM

Taufik has played Olympics many time, has played Asian Games many time,...

but Lindan has played Olympics only 1 time, and Asian games also just once.

When Taufik played Olympics the first time, he did not win.

When Taufik played AG the first time, he did not win either.

2cents

07-31-2007, 06:54 PM

here is the fact:

TH is a real threat to LCW
LCW is a real threat to LD
LD is a real threat to PG
PG is a real threat to Wacha
Wacha is a real threat to BP
BP is a real threat to CJ
CJ is a real threat to Sony

And so...on:D

Taufik Hidayat is a real threat to anyone if he in form and focused .

By definition, threat means something bad likely to happen.

Therefore, if someone is in form and wants to win, he is threat to everyone else.

But for all the people, beat Lindan is mission impossible if lindan is in form and focused. That's the definition the current best player.

Han

07-31-2007, 07:04 PM

Same can be said to LD as well.. He is world no. 1 for such a long periods.. However. Never win the Major titles in OG/AG
While WC/AE/AG/OG considered the "Grand Slam" in badminton. A player only can be throned as "LEGENDS" ONLY he manage to win both events.:rolleyes:

To me, a great player should be the one who win AE or Olympic or WC and many other regular tournaments. Lin Dan has won 2 AEs, 1 WC and so many others major tournaments, if he don't qualify as great player then no one should be. Peter has also won AE and many major tournaments so he's in my book. I will not include Hafiz even he has won AE as he has not won many other tournaments. It's really a judgement call and is going to be subjective so these are my great players :
Yang Yang;
Zhao Jianhua;
Sun Jun;
Peter Gade;
Taufik Hidayat;
Lin Dan;
Rexy/Ricky;
Ha Tae Kwun/Kim Dong Moon;
Kim Dong Moon/Ra Yuming;
I hope someone don't get mad at me :p

samuel882

07-31-2007, 07:07 PM

I think it is about the medal..LD beat TH in team so all CHN team got all gold medals and standing on podium together...so LD was not stand out..:(

TH beat LD in individual event so TH got gold medal alone by himself and stood on higher podium..plus single events are being played after Team event so people always remembered the last one......

We all agree that LD/TH/LCW/CH/CJ are in the same league...same thing in tennis..people remember Serena wins mostly Grass tournaments...nobody remembers her winning at French Open. ( clay)....or just like American idol...if you perform well in 1st song then screw up in 2nd song..people will remember that you suck.....and you get voted out...
YEah.. American Idols if u performance was sucks then u will doomed into "American Idoits".. :D:D

2cents

07-31-2007, 07:19 PM

To me, a great player should be the one who win AE or Olympic or WC and many other regular tournaments. Lin Dan has won 2 AEs, 1 WC and so many others major tournaments, if he don't qualify as great player then no one should be. Peter has also won AE and many major tournaments so he's in my book. I will not include Hafiz even he has won AE as he has not won many other tournaments. It's really a judgement call and is going to be subjective so these are my great players :
Yang Yang;
Zhao Jianhua;
Sun Jun;
Peter Gade;
Taufik Hidayat;
Lin Dan;
Rexy/Ricky;
Ha Tae Kwun/Kim Dong Moon;
Kim Dong Moon/Ra Yuming;
I hope someone don't get mad at me :p

By you definition, there is no reason to exclude Chen Hong. Chen Hong won AE 2 twice. and even more other tournaments than Gade, especially the tournamens with many stars.

For the current players, I like to rank as:

1) Lin Dan
2) Chen Hong
3) Peter Gade
4) Taufik Hidayat

Only those 4 current players can be written into the history book.

cooler

07-31-2007, 07:28 PM

I fink we are talking about TH personal performance in a singles event here. It does not count no matter how many times TH lost to LD in TEAM match.:p. Please face the reality that LD failed to win OG/AG ..
I am still fink TH is incomplete with his medals collection w/o AE title in his bag...
beating TH in 3 sets, 21-17, 17-21, 21-16 require individual effort in my book. I watched that match, and I didn't see any china team members or girlfriend xxf went on the court helping LD to beat TH.

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 07:43 PM

taufik-ist

07-31-2007, 08:06 PM

By you definition, there is no reason to exclude Chen Hong. Chen Hong won AE 2 twice. and even more other tournaments than Gade, especially the tournamens with many stars.

For the current players, I like to rank as:

1) Lin Dan
2) Chen Hong
3) Peter Gade
4) Taufik Hidayat

Only those 4 current players can be written into the history book.

it should be:
1) Lin Dan
2) Taufik Hidayat (th defeated pg twice in a row, first in sudirman cup 2007 than in China master 2007 (easily) )
3) Chen Hong
4) Peter Gade

can u give me a comparison betwen PG and TH (how many they won the tournaments) ?. you listed TH below PG
:D :D :p

samuel882

07-31-2007, 08:10 PM

in my opinion:

1.Lin dan
2.Taufik Hidayat
3.Chen Hong
4. Peter Gade
Where is LCW's position in here. Poor chong wei.. :crying:

taufik-ist

07-31-2007, 08:16 PM

Where is LCW's position in here. Poor chong wei.. :crying:

if he wins this WC 2007, he may be listed at #5 :D

2cents

07-31-2007, 08:25 PM

it should be:
1) Lin Dan
2) Taufik Hidayat (th defeated pg twice in a row, first in sudirman cup 2007 than in China master 2007 (easily) )
3) Chen Hong
4) Peter Gade

can u give me a comparison betwen PG and TH (how many they won the tournaments) ?. you listed TH below PG
:D :D :p

Taufik is a genius and of course very talented. But since his records in open tournaments are very poor, especially has not won any open tournaments in Europe. The other gripe about Taufik is that he never really dominated the ranking, Chen Hong has been the number 1 for more than one year that's very amazing.

I ranked them according to their records (winning tournaments) If we talk about most gifted players, Lin Dan and Taufik are away better than Chen Hong and Peter Gade. So I agree with you guy's list if we rank them not based on records

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 08:30 PM

Where is LCW's position in here. Poor chong wei.. :crying:
Sorry....if 2cents talk about top 4 and based on big tournaments only.....LCW is still young.I am sure he will make into the list.....dont worry!!;);)

2cents

07-31-2007, 08:31 PM

if he wins this WC 2007, he may be listed at #5 :D

Sorry....if 2cents talk about top 4 and based on big tournaments only.....LCW is still young.I am sure he will make into the list.....dont worry!!;);)

totally agree:D

What Lee CW needs is to win more and win big ... So far, he hasn't won many yet.

LCW is at the same age as Lin dan, Bao CL and Sony. LCW seems the best candidates now. Chen Yu, Bao CL and Sony are very week at winning. They don't have the killer instinct.

The other one capable of winning is Chen Jin. He has won several 6 star titles already. But he seems not highly motivated as Lin Dan. Good thing for CJ is that there seems not many decent players at his age.

Kenneth J, Lee HI are stable, but usually stop at quarter finals or semi finals at best.

Boonsak and Hafiz are unstable, they can win sporadically one or two, but could be defeated at first round also.

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 08:32 PM

Taufik is a genius and of course very talented. But since his records in open tournaments are very poor, especially has not won any open tournaments in Europe. The other gripe about Taufik is that he never really dominated the ranking, Chen Hong has been the number 1 for more than one year that's very amazing.

I ranked them according to their records (winning tournaments) If we talk about most gifted players, Lin Dan and Taufik are away better than Chen Hong and Peter Gade. So I agree with you guy's list if we rank them not based on records
Just curious....why you use 2cents, not 5cents or 10 cents???:D:D

samuel882

07-31-2007, 08:45 PM

Ranking for the "All Time Favourites" MS Players :
1. Yang Yang
2. Zhao Jian hua
3. LD
4. TH
5. Icuk Sugiarto
6. CH
7. Heriyanto Arby
8. Sun Jun
9. Paul Eric HoyerLarsen
10. Peter Gade

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 08:48 PM

Ranking for the "All Time Favourites" MS Players :
1. Yang Yang
2. Zhao Jian hua
3. LD
4. TH
5. Icuk Sugiarto
6. CH
7. Heriyanto Arby
8. Sun Jun
9. Paul Eric HoyerLarsen
10. Peter Gade
No Han Jian, Liem Swie King, Morten Frost Hansen ,Alan BK,and Rudy hartono???

2cents

07-31-2007, 08:54 PM

Just curious....why you use 2cents, not 5cents or 10 cents???:D:D

well, I have only 2 cents :cool: 2 cents means the same as humble opinion. I don't want to force other people must obey what I said. In discussion, you can have your own opinions, I can offer my 2 cents which could mean nothing to you. ;)

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 08:55 PM

well, I have only 2 cents :cool: 2 cents means the same as humble opinion. I don't want to force other people must obey what I said. In discussion, you can have your own opinions, I can offer my 2 cents which could mean nothing to you. ;)

:D:D..okay....I think 1 cent is humbler than 2 cents...:D:D..good to know...;)

2cents

07-31-2007, 09:10 PM

Ranking for the "All Time Favourites" MS Players :
1. Yang Yang
2. Zhao Jian hua
3. LD
4. TH
5. Icuk Sugiarto
6. CH
7. Heriyanto Arby
8. Sun Jun
9. Paul Eric HoyerLarsen
10. Peter Gade

Most people thought Zhao Jianhua is the best skilled in badminton history, but when Zhao JH was asked, he said he might be the best at his age, but now badminton skills have developed to a higher level than his time. When asked who are the best currently today, Zhao JH said, technical speaking, Taufik and Bao CL are the best.

Zhao JH gave his answer with his reasons. Taufik and Bao CL could be the best in techniques. but I think according to the ability to win, Lin Dan should be the best, and Bao CL seems to be nothing. I personally don't think Bao CL was the best in techniques either.

I think Zhao didn't mention Lin Dan may imply that he's afraid that Lin dan could beat him in badminton history. That's just my 2 cents.

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 09:24 PM

For some reasons..TH is an unpredictable and quite mysterius player...he is so moody and sometimes he created many controversies in the past...I guess he created the curiousity...like him or hate him...he could draw the crowd into tournaments and among reporters as well......

samuel882

07-31-2007, 09:52 PM

Most people thought Zhao Jianhua is the best skilled in badminton history, but when Zhao JH was asked, he said he might be the best at his age, but now badminton skills have developed to a higher level than his time. When asked who are the best currently today, Zhao JH said, technical speaking, Taufik and Bao CL are the best.

Zhao JH gave his answer with his reasons. Taufik and Bao CL could be the best in techniques. but I think according to the ability to win, Lin Dan should be the best, and Bao CL seems to be nothing. I personally don't think Bao CL was the best in techniques either.

I think Zhao didn't mention Lin Dan may imply that he's afraid that Lin dan could beat him in badminton history. That's just my 2 cents.
in Skills wise.. YY is the best.. LD and ZJH might be in the fight fir the second spot...

Dimplex

07-31-2007, 10:13 PM

th is definately the dark horse for WC 07

Joyous

07-31-2007, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Han http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=625844#post625844)
To me, a great player should be the one who win AE or Olympic or WC and many other regular tournaments. Lin Dan has won 2 AEs, 1 WC and so many others major tournaments, if he don't qualify as great player then no one should be. Peter has also won AE and many major tournaments so he's in my book. I will not include Hafiz even he has won AE as he has not won many other tournaments. It's really a judgement call and is going to be subjective so these are my great players :

Absolutely great analysis .. impartial and factual.

To those who think that being World No. 1 consistently for 3 yrs is no big deal, it just shows the level of maturity of badminton fans bcoz Tiger Wood, R Federer are also World No. 1 in their own category. Besides, why do players hope to climb up the ranking much as they say they don't really care??? Ask any player and they will tell you that it is harder to stay on top then getting there.
Some of us may not like certain players bcos they don't smile, are not good looking, introverts, etc, that's fine but ultimately our 'opinions' do reflect on ourselves.
Peace to all.

OneToughBirdie

07-31-2007, 10:22 PM

Sorry....if 2cents talk about top 4 and based on big tournaments only.....LCW is still young.I am sure he will make into the list.....dont worry!!;);)
Not if LCW has been quoted as wanting to retire after OLY08, then basically he has to win all the majors between now and 08.

koo_fan

07-31-2007, 10:31 PM

Wong Choong Han is da man! Still got the hops and the weapon at this time. Too bad he was hampered by injuries.. if not he would be in the Top 10 by now.
WCh have once manage to get his glory moment in his career as a shutller.Hope he can repeat it once again.I know he can

OneToughBirdie

07-31-2007, 10:33 PM

in Skills wise.. YY is the best.. LD and ZJH might be in the fight fir the second spot...
Who is the best depends on which game you one based his opinion on...but when I watched ZJH play JS in AE90 final, that game left me in awe, and if I use that game to judge who is most skilled, I would say ZJH but then ZJH does not play that consistent every time, as LD is very consistent and successful, I think LD must have won the most tourneys than anyone else...but we can also argue in the heydays of Hartono, there aren't that many tourneys to play.

samuel882

07-31-2007, 11:33 PM

No Han Jian, Liem Swie King, Morten Frost Hansen ,Alan BK,and Rudy hartono???
The list is ONLY rank top 10. their name will certainly in for a top 20 list;)
together win LCW.. Foo Kok Keong.. Luan Jin.. LHI etc...:rolleyes:

samuel882

07-31-2007, 11:36 PM

Who is the best depends on which game you one based his opinion on...but when I watched ZJH play JS in AE90 final, that game left me in awe, and if I use that game to judge who is most skilled, I would say ZJH but then ZJH does not play that consistent every time, as LD is very consistent and successful, I think LD must have won the most tourneys than anyone else...but we can also argue in the heydays of Hartono, there aren't that many tourneys to play.
IF LD were to play against ZJH todays.. He will have a tough battle. His flamboyant style will makes him struggles against the calm of ZJH's mind in the court. Both are equally great in the skill i would said. But the game will decide on who will control their temperature on the match itself..

Han

07-31-2007, 11:54 PM

By you definition, there is no reason to exclude Chen Hong. Chen Hong won AE 2 twice. and even more other tournaments than Gade, especially the tournamens with many stars.

For the current players, I like to rank as:

1) Lin Dan
2) Chen Hong
3) Peter Gade
4) Taufik Hidayat

Only those 4 current players can be written into the history book.

Yes, Chen Hong should be one of the great, so is Paul Hoyer Larsen, Morten Frost and many others. It's like the requirement to induct into the Hall of Fame in all sports, we have to have some sort of achievement statistic to back it up. I also will not include Liu Jun even though he won the AE1992, Jianhua basically gave Liu Jun the title so he could qualify for Olympic. Setting the Hall Of Fame criteria/requirement definitely will be a good/furious debate among us :D

samuel882

07-31-2007, 11:55 PM

Yes, Chen Hong should be one of the great, so is Paul Hoyer Larsen, Morten Frost and many others. It's like the requirement to induct into the Hall of Fame in all sports, we have to have some sort of achievement statistic to back it up. I also will not include Liu Jun even though he won the AE1992, Jianhua basically gave Liu Jun the title so he could qualify for Olympic. Setting the Hall Of Fame criteria/requirement definitely will be a good/furious debate among us :D

Who is "Liu Jin"??

Han

07-31-2007, 11:57 PM

IF LD were to play against ZJH todays.. He will have a tough battle. His flamboyant style will makes him struggles against the calm of ZJH's mind in the court. Both are equally great in the skill i would said. But the game will decide on who will control their temperature on the match itself..

On the funny side, the score could be 21-5, 21-5 won by either side depending on which Zhoa Jianhua shows up :D

huangkwokhau

07-31-2007, 11:57 PM

:DYes, Chen Hong should be one of the great, so is Paul Hoyer Larsen, Morten Frost and many others. It's like the requirement to induct into the Hall of Fame in all sports, we have to have some sort of achievement statistic to back it up. I also will not include Liu Jun even though he won the AE1992, Jianhua basically gave Liu Jun the title so he could qualify for Olympic. Setting the Hall Of Fame criteria/requirement definitely will be a good/furious debate among us :D

Hall of Fame? I know some for sure like Rudy hartono, Morten and Lim Swie King...anyway......let not start it ..it can be a WAR here...:D:D sensitive issues...:p:p

Han

08-01-2007, 12:46 AM

:D

Hall of Fame? I know some for sure like Rudy hartono, Morten and Lim Swie King...anyway......let not start it ..it can be a WAR here...:D:D sensitive issues...:p:p

Every major sports has Hall Of Fame and if badminton want to be one of the majors then have to have it. It really doesn't matter how heated the debate escalate as long as some meaningful guidelines surface during the debate. Who knows, WBF may read our posts and steal some idea from us. Don't under estimate the influential power of BF as 21 point new scoring system continues may due to the majority positive feedback from BF????
BF Boleh!!!

bananaboy

08-01-2007, 12:46 AM

Absolutely great analysis .. impartial and factual.

To those who think that being World No. 1 consistently for 3 yrs is no big deal, it just shows the level of maturity of badminton fans bcoz Tiger Wood, R Federer are also World No. 1 in their own category. Besides, why do players hope to climb up the ranking much as they say they don't really care??? Ask any player and they will tell you that it is harder to stay on top then getting there.
Some of us may not like certain players bcos they don't smile, are not good looking, introverts, etc, that's fine but ultimately our 'opinions' do reflect on ourselves.
Peace to all.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post earlier... I made a typo and it was supposed to say that for those who think LD's 3 or 4 years being #1 still can not prove he is the best in this century is just ridiculous, but I definitely made a silly typo.:p

cooler

08-01-2007, 01:16 AM

Who is "Liu Jin"??
His name is Liu Jun. I would say he is the chinese version of 'H. Hafiz'. He is tall and handsome looking. He won the 1992 AE MS title but didn't shine at all in the 1992 olympic. Afterward in the same year, he came to calgary to compete in our 1992 canadian open. I thought he would take the title easily but he was beaten by a no name korean Jae Chang Ahn in 2 sets. Liu Jun did beat foo kok kong in the semi tho but FKK was old and slow by then. LJ seem to lack focus and i think he had other aspiration outside of badminton. China team booted him out but as for Hafiz, he's still finding himself:p hehehe

Joyous

08-01-2007, 01:27 AM

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post earlier... I made a typo and it was supposed to say that for those who think LD's 3 or 4 years being #1 still can not prove he is the best in this century is just ridiculous, but I definitely made a silly typo.:p

It's polite of you to pick it up, besides it wasn't directed at you but it's for those who just refuse to accept facts & figures & chose to criticise unconstructively.

samuel882

08-01-2007, 01:28 AM

His name is Liu Jun. I would say he is the chinese version of 'H. Hafiz'. He is tall and handsome looking. He won the 1992 AE MS title but didn't shine at all in the 1992 olympic. Afterward in the same year, he came to calgary to compete in our 1992 canadian open. I thought he would take the title easily but he was beaten by a no name korean Jae Chang Ahn in 2 sets. Liu Jun did beat foo kok kong in the semi tho but FKK was old and slow by then. LJ seem to lack focus and i think he had other aspiration outside of badminton. China team booted him out but as for Hafiz, he's still finding himself:p hehehe

i tot this guy name shld pronouce as "Luan Jing" in chinese :confused::confused:
BTW Ann Jae Chang is quite a good stroke players rite?

abedeng

08-01-2007, 01:39 AM

No no no, Luan Jin is a different person, who played in the same generation as Morten Frost, Han Jian, Liem Swie King, Prakash Padukone and Misbun.

Liu Jun was in the same era as Ardy Wiranata, Rashid Sidek, Thomas Stuer Lauridsen, Hariyanto Arbi etc ........

tjl_vanguard

08-01-2007, 01:47 AM

tjl_vanguard

08-01-2007, 01:51 AM

Han

08-01-2007, 02:02 AM

Gosh.. WCH is back in top20 and is now Mas#2.. What the heck is wrong with Hafiz... hopeless.... in fact WCH might still stand a chance in WC if he is eligible.. for me, he is definitely better than roslin and tsuen seng.. :D

True but Choon Hann was given every opportunity to qualify but failed. I guess Choon Hann would be selected instead of Roslin if the threat of law sue is not there. Lousy timing, what else can I say? Poor Lee Chong Wei, even though Malaysia has another 3 representatives but none of them seems helpful to him.

Han

08-01-2007, 02:03 AM

but i still never heard of him b4... :D

That's why he can't make into our great player list:D

samuel882

08-01-2007, 02:21 AM

True but Choon Hann was given every opportunity to qualify but failed. I guess Choon Hann would be selected instead of Roslin if the threat of law sue is not there. Lousy timing, what else can I say? Poor Lee Chong Wei, even though Malaysia has another 3 representatives but none of them seems helpful to him.

Truth. 3 of them will be useless for LCW.. He have to on his own w/o hoping on any 1 of his compatriots to clear his path into SF/finals..

pjswift

08-01-2007, 02:24 AM

Regardless how much we love Lee Chong Wei, we have to be aware that he has yet to win any big events like All England, Olympic, World Championship or even Asian Games.(Most of the Malaysian players have not achieve that but we keep on saying how great they are, quite inappropriate) The only advantage LCW has in this WC is playing at home while he's back to his prime. On the contrary, Taufik and Lin Dan have won the big events so they've an edge. I have to say for LCW to win, he has to have a favorable draw avoiding Taufik else Lin Dan shall prevail.
If Chong Wei emerge as winner despite tough draw then he will be a true champion in my opinion. LCW is an excellent player who has yet to achieve greatness and lets hope he fulfill our dream this time. Malaysia Boleh!
I feel sorry for LCW if you love him or sound like you are his fan.If you are a true LCW fan, you'll appreciate him and his badminton talents regardless of whether he wins big or small titles. You come across as a conditional fan and continue to undermine his credibility as a winner. If LCW wins this WC, you 'll say it's because he has a good draw or because of home advantage. The last thing LCW needs is fans like you or your support. Nervous fans impart nervous energy. He is better off on his own. Why don't you just be a LD fan so you can stop fretting? ( Or maybe not yet, cos LD may start to go downhill this year,then you'll be fanning the wrong guy and start fretting again.) At least Onetoughbirdie has made progress as a fan... and exhibiting less nervous energy.Apologies in advance for my impatience but your post really breached the threshold.

robin7

08-01-2007, 03:26 AM

It's funny how instead of responding to my second post(#28), which I added my reasoning as to why I refer Misbun's opinion as full of crap, you attack my first post. That's the spirit!!! :cool:

Here... my turn of a low blow:p
The best choice of word you use here really is "dethrone LCW" though... I don't think neither LD or TH(or anybody for that matter) can dethrone LCW, when LCW has never been "Throned" so to speak. LOL...:D

Hasn't LCW won 3 consecutive MO? Just shut your big mouth up, crappy!

X Ball

08-01-2007, 03:30 AM

how could i debate someone who is NEVER wrong, and have no evidence to back that up either? I'm flawed and yet made a wise move, which one is it?LOL

Ok man, if you are really coming there is no need to antagonise you further. I don't want you to punch me up in KL.Cheers man.

X Ball

08-01-2007, 03:32 AM

Is this an original? If so, you are quite a sage. How about coding it ,like give it a shorthand?We have so many posts of not letting go of past glories in spite of present realities.It 'll be good for you to respond with a signature stamp and we understand it instantly.
I can respect past glories but if we don't appreciate progress in the present, then how far can badminton go forward?

Nothing is original my friend. There are too many fakes in this world.:)

X Ball

08-01-2007, 03:36 AM

pjswift

08-01-2007, 04:17 AM

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post earlier... I made a typo and it was supposed to say that for those who think LD's 3 or 4 years being #1 still can not prove he is the best in this century is just ridiculous, but I definitely made a silly typo.:p
Let the typo remain cos this revision is worse. Are you saying that LD's 3 or 4 years being #1 is proof that he is the best in this century? That's for simple minds! Come off it, bananaboy. Although you (or I)will never win an award for good manners (or Best Progress in it), some of your analysis are thought provoking and indicative of a complex mind. Don't act simple-minded out of spite.
How about tackling some of these questions?
In the 3 or 4 years LD is #1:
1) How did he win his titles? How often did his teammates lose to him ? Were there any team orders?
2) Since LD became #1, he has won many titles per year. How about giving a breakdown of # of titles per year since 2004? Does the trend indicate he's winning more titles with each succeeding year? The final tally for 2007 should be interesting.
3) If LD does not play the same # of tournaments every year, then add another indicator: percentage score i.e. # of titles won/# of tournaments played.

koo_fan

08-01-2007, 04:17 AM

samuel882

08-01-2007, 04:56 AM

Where do u get that info?? is IBF has update the world latest rankings?? How would i dont know??
WCH is now rank 15 in the WR..
chked this out : http://www.internationalbadminton.org/mensingles.asp
;)

Felicia_txh

08-01-2007, 05:53 AM

koo_fan

08-01-2007, 07:40 AM

WCH is now rank 15 in the WR..
chked this out : http://www.internationalbadminton.org/mensingles.asp
;)
Thanks.thats so nice of u

koo_fan

08-01-2007, 08:07 AM

When will the draw comes out??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I feel tat Hafiz still can shines again if he can 'opens up his mind' n accept the fate tat his performance is getting lousy n lousy!!Everytime when he plays,he juz 'shok sendiri',play with his yo-yo style..

Misbun is definately a good coach..he noe wat to do n wat not to do..;)
Do u have any idea how to change that situation.Does Shima cant do anything to lift her husband performance.Hope she can do something about that.Dont u feel the same way felixia

Han

08-01-2007, 08:07 AM

I feel sorry for LCW if you love him or sound like you are his fan.If you are a true LCW fan, you'll appreciate him and his badminton talents regardless of whether he wins big or small titles. You come across as a conditional fan and continue to undermine his credibility as a winner. If LCW wins this WC, you 'll say it's because he has a good draw or because of home advantage. The last thing LCW needs is fans like you or your support. Nervous fans impart nervous energy. He is better off on his own. Why don't you just be a LD fan so you can stop fretting? ( Or maybe not yet, cos LD may start to go downhill this year,then you'll be fanning the wrong guy and start fretting again.) At least Onetoughbirdie has made progress as a fan... and exhibiting less nervous energy.Apologies in advance for my impatience but your post really breached the threshold.

Not sure what I should say about your judgement on me for Lee Chong Wei and is kind of funny how the same statements can be interpreted in so many ways both by the right and left wings :D I can only say I am a badminton fan a little sided on Malaysian camp but somehow you read me as the opposite. So the statement I've made "LCW is an excellent player who has yet to achieve greatness" is not true?
Anyway my apology and shall restrict my opinion in the future in this forum. Take care.

2cents

08-01-2007, 08:21 AM

For the current players, I like to rank as:

1) Lin Dan
2) Chen Hong
3) Peter Gade
4) Taufik Hidayat

Yes, Chen Hong should be one of the great, so is Paul Hoyer Larsen, Morten Frost and many others. It's like the requirement to induct into the Hall of Fame in all sports, we have to have some sort of achievement statistic to back it up. I also will not include Liu Jun even though he won the AE1992, Jianhua basically gave Liu Jun the title so he could qualify for Olympic. Setting the Hall Of Fame criteria/requirement definitely will be a good/furious debate among us :D

We are talking about current active players only, so Larsen, Frost, Zhao JH, Liu Jun should not be in the list.

2cents

08-01-2007, 08:32 AM

The list is ONLY rank top 10. their name will certainly in for a top 20 list;)
together win LCW.. Foo Kok Keong.. Luan Jin.. LHI etc...:rolleyes:

Why still some people think LHI one the greatest?

I think LHI is the most overrated player while Chen Hong's the most underrated player, at least by BWF.

Just before last year's WC, BWF made a prediction, and listed Lee HI as the top potential winner, while totally ignored Chen Hong. Although Chen Hong ranked higher.

Both Chen Hong and Lee HI missed this year AE, but BWF claimed that Lee HI was the only top player missing this year's AE. Although Chen Hong won AE twice, and also runner up twice, while Lee HI never won yet. Chen Hong also ranked higher than LHI.

I found BWF never miss any chance belittling Chen Hong and promoting Lee HI. Is that because the Chair from Korea? I really don't know why. Lee HI never won anything big, and not won many either.

samuel882

08-01-2007, 08:43 AM

Why still some people think LHI one the greatest?

I think LHI is the most overrated player while Chen Hong's the most underrated player, at least by BWF.

Just before last year's WC, BWF made a prediction, and listed Lee HI as the top potential winner, while totally ignored Chen Hong. Although Chen Hong ranked higher.

Both Chen Hong and Lee HI missed this year AE, but BWF claimed that Lee HI was the only top player missing this year's AE. Although Chen Hong won AE twice, and also runner up twice, while Lee HI never won yet. Chen Hong also ranked higher than LHI.

I found BWF never miss any chance belittling Chen Hong and promote Lee HI. Is that because the Chair from Korea? I really don't know why. Lee HI never won anything big, and not won many either.
LHI is the only KOREA MS players wich deserved in the so call "Hall of fame" of badminton here. I could not have any options else beside naming him as to represent KOREA MS player.
Anyway the Hall of fame must be in a vote among all the badminton fans in the world to determine right?
Calm Down ..CH is already in my top ten's list.. So its justified he is above LHI in any corner... :D:D

Blurry D

08-01-2007, 09:04 AM

We will see what happens on the 19th august...I am sure it would be something great to watch.No matter what I think you guys should stop arguing over something that can be decided.

Respect the player and coaches as they are very human like all of us.They have fear and weakness just like all of us. We should also respect them as they have given their lives for badminton.Though a sport that is not highly regarded by many, they still choose to be what they choose to be.

The tone that some of you are discussing this issue seems like it is a matter of life and death.The aggressive tone and the use of inappropriate just shows your character.It backfires at you how full of crap you are.

Judge these player and coaches for what they have given.Their best.Sometimes winning is not everything.It that journey to victory that matters most.Try to be in their shoes if you think you can do a better job.The very fact that you are here lamenting or so to say and not out there training shows that you have not achieve the level these player have.So give them some respect...

P/S :When I was younger I used to be trained under Nusa Mahsuri.Misbun has his downfall but he is never full of crap

Cheers Mates!!! Love and enjoy the sport!!!

xofrevlis

08-01-2007, 10:11 AM

LHI is a very good player in his own right but he's not what I would consider a great who belongs in the hall of fame. Having said that, I do have a lot of respect for him because of his contribution to badminton and feats such as the 2003 Sudirman Cup.

Some people may say that he was just a one-hit wonder, but being the best in the world at any one time, no matter how brief, still requires a lot.

staples

08-01-2007, 11:07 AM

USAfan

08-01-2007, 12:22 PM

Every major sports has Hall Of Fame and if badminton want to be one of the majors then have to have it. It really doesn't matter how heated the debate escalate as long as some meaningful guidelines surface during the debate. Who knows, WBF may read our posts and steal some idea from us. Don't under estimate the influential power of BF as 21 point new scoring system continues may due to the majority positive feedback from BF????
BF Boleh!!!
I totally agree that we need A Hall Of Fame for badminton. The question is, "Where should this Hall Of Fame be build" ???? :confused:After debating on the venue, then we could come up with the criteria on who the inductee be ?????:confused:

cooler

08-01-2007, 01:04 PM

I totally agree that we need A Hall Of Fame for badminton. The question is, "Where should this Hall Of Fame be build" ???? :confused:After debating on the venue, then we could come up with the criteria on who the inductee be ?????:confused: hall of frame, this one deserve a new thread;)

samuel882

08-01-2007, 04:46 PM

hall of frame, this one deserve a new thread;)

Mayb u shold be the inductor :confused: :D:D

cooler

08-01-2007, 04:53 PM

Mayb u shold be the inductor :confused: :D:Di could be bias:p

X Ball

08-01-2007, 08:06 PM

i could be bias:p

"could be bias" ..... should be "could be biased".

Not trying to stamp my superiority on your english.:D Now I know I am going to get punched by you at the WC.:D

Joyous

08-01-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote: Blurry D "The tone that some of you are discussing this issue seems like it is a matter of life and death.The aggressive tone and the use of inappropriate just shows your character."

Ha..ha... Glad that you observed that too. I know some fans do it with a bit of humour & fun, sometimes to irritate others. But these are bearable. It is those who come across as hostile and bitter which is frightening.

Anyway, each time I want to retaliate, I tell myself that badminton and the players (whether they smile, don't smile, introverts/extroverts, flamboyant) are here for us to enjoy the game and their performance.

Hope the WC in KL will be truly one memorable tournament for all to enjoy.

cooler

08-01-2007, 08:44 PM

"could be bias" ..... should be "could be biased".

Not trying to stamp my superiority on your english.:D Now I know I am going to get punched by you at the WC.:D

np,maybe u ran out of things to say:p
unfortuately i wont be at KL for the WC, i would be totally out numbered by MAL and INA fans :D

Loh

08-01-2007, 09:06 PM

"could be bias" ..... should be "could be biased".

Not trying to stamp my superiority on your english.:D Now I know I am going to get punched by you at the WC.:D

Are you sure cooler will be there in KL for the WC? If so, we'll turn one badminton court into a boxing ring to let you two slug it out! We'll bet on the side who will win :D.

Anyway, thanks for having the courage to point out to him about his English. A subtle oversight but still a mistake. And I hope cooler will accept it in good spirit.

Unfortunately, some members care too hoots about their grammar, etc, and continue to repeat their mistakes in this forum without attempting to correct them. Maybe they didn't realize it as nobody pointed it out to them like what you are doing to cooler. :rolleyes:

robin7

08-01-2007, 10:31 PM

huangkwokhau

08-01-2007, 10:41 PM

Where is Bananaboy? ........

robin7

08-01-2007, 10:48 PM

Anyway, thanks for having the courage to point out to him about his English. A subtle oversight but still a mistake. And I hope cooler will accept it in good spirit.

Unfortunately, some members care too hoots about their grammar, etc, and continue to repeat their mistakes in this forum without attempting to correct them. Maybe they didn't realize it as nobody pointed it out to them like what you are doing to cooler. :rolleyes:

I understand that many members including myself whose mother tougue is not English. But I would like to suggest to everyone here kindly check your grammar/sentence/spelling before posting. Space when necessary & paragraph it if it is a long post. Malaysians, please don't use vocab that can only be understood by ourselves.:p I'm sorry if this is offending anyone here. It's just my opinion.:) Cheers. Enjoying reading & posting!:)

robin7

08-01-2007, 10:50 PM

Where is Bananaboy? ........
I think he's sleeping now. Wake up, bananaboy!:D

robin7

08-01-2007, 11:10 PM

Not sure what I should say about your judgement on me for Lee Chong Wei and is kind of funny how the same statements can be interpreted in so many ways both by the right and left wings :D I can only say I am a badminton fan a little sided on Malaysian camp but somehow you read me as the opposite. So the statement I've made "LCW is an excellent player who has yet to achieve greatness" is not true?
Anyway my apology and shall restrict my opinion in the future in this forum. Take care.

What u said is quite true. MAS players has been "underachieving" for the past two decades based on the number of major titles won in Olympic, World Championships & All England. LCW has yet to win either of these major titles & he has a long to go. Sad but true. This WC is the time for LCW to shine & prove to the world that he can also be crowned the world champion.:)

george@chongwei

08-01-2007, 11:13 PM

so LEE CHONG WEI MUST PROVE TO EVERONE IN TIS WORLD HE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD..

cooler

08-01-2007, 11:29 PM

What u said is quite true. MAS players has been "underachieving" for the past two decades based on the number of major titles won in Olympic, World Championships & All England. LCW has yet to win either of these major titles & he has a long to go. Sad but true. This WC is the time for LCW to shine & prove to the world that he can also be crowned the world champion.:) u guys are just setting up yourselves for a BIG let down:p There aren't enough hiding places for u guys to hide if LCW fails LOL

samuel882

08-01-2007, 11:47 PM

Too much hopes on LCW will definitely give extreme pressure to him ! Guys.. Relax...

volcom

08-02-2007, 12:08 AM

Pressure makes the greatest stumble

dunker

08-02-2007, 12:18 AM

The difference between a lump of coal and a diamond is pressure....lots of it.

OneToughBirdie

08-02-2007, 12:26 AM

This is first time I see someone other than myself suggesting to refrain from putting LCW on a high pedestal with a bulleye "the one to beat" even before WC starts...LCW in the past has proven he cannot deliver the goods when the pressure is on him to win and when he is ranked high...when he is down and out, and nearly everyone, except XBall and 2 other BCers who stand by him, had counted him out and hopeless, LCW bounced back and back he did all the way to contention...better stay underdog...his fans should be humble as LCW....hahaha!!!;):p

X Ball

08-02-2007, 01:25 AM

X Ball

08-02-2007, 01:33 AM

u guys are just setting up yourselves for a BIG let down:p There aren't enough hiding places for u guys to hide if LCW fails LOL

By putting pressure on us, you will also have to face the music if he wins. There is no way for you to hide, and there are not many places for you to hide either.:D

cooler

08-02-2007, 01:39 AM

By putting pressure on us, you will also have to face the music if he wins. There is no way for you to hide, and there are not many places for you to hide either.:Dglancing at my post count, i dont think i've gone hiding that often:p

X Ball

08-02-2007, 01:41 AM

glancing at my post count, i dont think i've gone hiding that often:p

Which means you are not too concerned how you post ?:rolleyes:

X Ball

08-02-2007, 01:44 AM

Are you sure cooler will be there in KL for the WC? If so, we'll turn one badminton court into a boxing ring to let you two slug it out! We'll bet on the side who will win :D.

Anyway, thanks for having the courage to point out to him about his English. A subtle oversight but still a mistake. And I hope cooler will accept it in good spirit.

Unfortunately, some members care too hoots about their grammar, etc, and continue to repeat their mistakes in this forum without attempting to correct them. Maybe they didn't realize it as nobody pointed it out to them like what you are doing to cooler. :rolleyes:

These Canadians ---- they speak french more than english. So you cannot blame them.:D BTW, Cooler are you real dinkum Canadian or a foreign born Canadian ?

robin7

08-02-2007, 02:00 AM

Too much hopes on LCW will definitely give extreme pressure to him ! Guys.. Relax...

Pressure makes the greatest stumble

The difference between a lump of coal and a diamond is pressure....lots of it.
:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool: :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

X Ball

08-02-2007, 02:06 AM

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool: :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Quote:
Originally Posted by samuel882 http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=626388#post626388)
Too much hopes on LCW will definitely give extreme pressure to him ! Guys.. Relax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by volcom http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=626410#post626410)
Pressure makes the greatest stumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunker http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=626416#post626416)
The difference between a lump of coal and a diamond is pressure....lots of it.

You are raising my blood pressure with all these pressure talk.:mad::D

Loh

08-02-2007, 04:48 AM

These Canadians ---- they speak french more than english. So you cannot blame them.:D BTW, Cooler are you real dinkum Canadian or a foreign born Canadian ?

I bet he must have his roots in Hong Kong once upon a time! And I'm convinced he speaks little or no French at all! :rolleyes:

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 05:00 AM

Now now play nice boys you don't some one to send an Intercontinental Ballistic Shuttlecock to your doorstep...hehehehehe

virusvoodoo

08-02-2007, 05:56 AM

so LEE CHONG WEI MUST PROVE TO EVERONE IN TIS WORLD HE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD..

Okay, let's say Lee Chong Wei does win the upcoming WC2007, I still think it is unfair to call him the best player in the world when there are other players who have achieved more, like Lin Dan and Taufik Hidayat. We can say that he's is one of the best but just to say that outright from one big title is inconsiderate of other players who have achieved more.

samuel882

08-02-2007, 07:31 AM

LCW certainly needs to win this WC07 badly compare v TH, LD. It will at least on par with both of them to be "World's best" MS players.
He oso should aim for an OLympic gold next year.

X Ball

08-02-2007, 08:05 AM

I bet he must have his roots in Hong Kong once upon a time! And I'm convinced he speaks little or no French at all! :rolleyes:

Testing with my low level french......como ta le voo Cooler ?

X Ball

08-02-2007, 08:23 AM

Okay, let's say Lee Chong Wei does win the upcoming WC2007, I still think it is unfair to call him the best player in the world when there are other players who have achieved more, like Lin Dan and Taufik Hidayat. We can say that he's is one of the best but just to say that outright from one big title is inconsiderate of other players who have achieved more.

On the contrary, it is unfair not to call him the best player in the world if he wins.

Perhaps what you wanted to say was it is unfair to call him an all-time best world player.

pjswift

08-02-2007, 08:28 AM

Pressure makes the greatest stumble
I like this line. But are you indirectly suggesting that LCW's the greatest? That would be quite flattering.

kokcheng

08-02-2007, 08:51 AM

WC will be won by Misbun through LCW ! No two ways about this.You are a heck of a man.So bloody
sure.You have the foresight.I agree whole-heartedly with you in your conviction.Misbun and LCW what a lethal combination.

pjswift

08-02-2007, 08:58 AM

so LEE CHONG WEI MUST PROVE TO EVERONE IN TIS WORLD HE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD..
Why should he? If he wins, great. If he doesn't, can also be great as long as he plays his best.
If he can have his way,he said he would like to retire from badminton after OG08 so he can make up for lost time with his family.
I don't think he's in it for personal glory but he's working to give his best shot as MAS' best bet for the nicest sounding badminton title.

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 09:06 AM

george@chongwei

08-02-2007, 09:10 AM

Why should he? If he wins, great. If he doesn't, can also be great as long as he plays his best.
If he can have his way,he said he would like to retire from badminton after OG08 so he can make up for lost time with his family.
I don't think he's in it for personal glory but he's working to give his best shot as MAS' best bet for the nicest sounding badminton title.
if he win..it is a great archievement becoz he can be the 1st Malaysian to win at WC. no malaysian had won it... so if lee cong wei win,he can b the best in the world for at least 1 year although if he retire from badminton but i tink he will not coz he loves badminton very much.....

2cents

08-02-2007, 11:01 AM

wow, here are 185 posts following Misban's single comment.

I don't think Misban is clear himself. On Malaysia newspaper, he claimed before the final of Philippine's open that Lee CW would overtake Chen Hong's 2nd ranked position if LCW beat CH in the final. That's obviously wrong, some friends made the same claim here, and I have corrected that.

So don't take what Misban said seriously, as a professional head coach, even cannot calculate the ranking points, how can he know his potential enemies? and even sort them in order?

ye333

08-02-2007, 11:09 AM

Well, I think your conclusion is not logical. Let's say Misbun is illiterate, can do 1+1. That doesn't mean he cannot understand badminton. Mike Tyson doesn't know how to manage his own money, but he understands punching ppl very very well. :D

wow, here are 185 posts following Misban's single comment.

I don't think Misban is clear himself. On Malaysia newspaper, he claimed before the final of Philippine's open that Lee CW would overtake Chen Hong's 2nd ranked position if LCW beat CH in the final. That's obviously wrong, some friends made the same claim here, and I have corrected that.

So don't take what Misban said seriously, as a professional head coach, even cannot calculate the ranking points, how can he know his potential enemies? and even sort them in order?

cooler

08-02-2007, 11:44 AM

2cents

08-02-2007, 11:55 AM

Well, I think your conclusion is not logical. Let's say Misbun is illiterate, can do 1+1. That doesn't mean he cannot understand badminton. Mike Tyson doesn't know how to manage his own money, but he understands punching ppl very very well. :D

I don't think you think logically ;)

Mike Tyson is fine because he's professional boxer. Misban is okay if he's the badminton player. But now he's managing Lee CW's ranking, that's the job he tried to do and failed.

If Lee CW had said he would be the 2nd overtaking CH, that's fine because his job is to win on the court. But Misban was trying to manage Lee CW's ranking points which he's obviously disqualified.

Let professionals do the professional jobs. Misban may be good at coaching skills, but how to manage players tournaments schedules, how to manage the ranking points, he's not good for sure.

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:04 PM

I think there are a lot of to research and do better about how to arrange the players schedules to maximize their prize money and ranking pointings, but most most people are not that smart to know the difference resulting from the understanding of mathematics.

For example, look at Taufik, no body denies he's a genius, he also played more than 10 tournaments, but how come end up in such a low ranking position. The answer is simple! Taufik doesn't know mathematics and more desperately, there is none around him knows mathematics to help him.

Another example is Li Yongbo, who doesn't know mathematics. He said he wants to help players' ranking points because that's the first priority before the Olympics, but LYB didn't send any other players in the Sudirman competiton. If he had let CJ, BCL, CY play one match for each, then they could be all in the top 4 with Lin Dan (because one win gives them over 7,000 points).

huangkwokhau

08-02-2007, 12:13 PM

Hello 2cents..his name is MISBUN, not Misban.....

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 12:14 PM

I am sure they know the simple 1+1 or else all of them are going to mess up the scoring..

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:16 PM

On LYB again, because of his strategy at Sudirman cup, the China men's singles collapsed. Bao CL and Chen Jin had not played for a quite long time, and Chen Yu was even sent back to his hometown for vacation for weeks. That's the reason when they were back to the China master, none of them were in the form for competition.

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:18 PM

Hello 2cents..his name is MISBUN, not Misban.....

Thanks

thanks again, since one "thanks" is not enough to be posted

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:23 PM

I am sure they know the simple 1+1 or else all of them are going to mess up the scoring..

That "else all of them" is just "you", or people you know. As the head coach of a team, must fully understand the ranking system. It's about all the players' money and future.

I have been attacking the ranking system for years, and first thing I got to do, was that I had to understand it thoroughly.

Besides me, I believe there are some others here understand the BWF ranking fully. For example, "event" from Korea/Canada was one of them.

ye333

08-02-2007, 12:24 PM

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 12:31 PM

Errr sorry 2cents i did not quite get you back there..

I was not saying that head coached needed to understand the ranking system.

Simply i was commenting that if a person is not able to count 1+1 he or she would messed up the scoring system (points when a player wins the rally)

ye333

08-02-2007, 12:32 PM

In Taufik's case, I believe he claimed that he actually prefers to be in an inconspicuous position. No. 10 is actually a pretty good position for him.

In LYB's case, he cannot afford to have the slightest chance to lose in Sudirman cup (also Thomas cup, Uber cup, etc.). So he always try to use the strongest players. Also, it is a good strategy to accumulate as many points as possible for LD, if you remember his claim a few months ago that once LD has got so many points that he will be No.1 seed in the Olympics anyway, he can afford to lose even in earlier rounds to help CJ, BCL, etc. (Because they may meet in early rounds due to the new way of making draws).

I think there are a lot of to research and do better about how to arrange the players schedules to maximize their prize money and ranking pointings, but most most people are not that smart to know the difference resulting from the understanding of mathematics.

For example, look at Taufik, no body denies he's a genius, he also played more than 10 tournaments, but how come end up in such a low ranking position. The answer is simple! Taufik doesn't know mathematics and more desperately, there is none around him knows mathematics to help him.

Another example is Li Yongbo, who doesn't know mathematics. He said he wants to help players' ranking points because that's the first priority before the Olympics, but LYB didn't send any other players in the Sudirman competiton. If he had let CJ, BCL, CY play one match for each, then they could be all in the top 4 with Lin Dan (because one win gives them over 7,000 points).

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 12:36 PM

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:37 PM

I don't think "how to manage players tournaments schedules, how to manage the ranking points," are of much importance to a coach. There should be someone else in the team calculating that, even if there is none, YKH instead of Misbun should do that. Misbun's focus should be making LCW a better player.

Btw, being a former athlete (understand it as "without much education"), it is OK if Misbun cannot figure out the ranking system. Even if he is illiterate, so what. As long as he can play good badminton, he is a good player; as long as he can make LCW reaching his full potential, he is a great coach.

It is even okay if Misbun cannot calculate. As you suggested, there must be someone else in the team to do that. But it is Misbun's fault that he made his miscalculation public. Since he cannot calculate (which is okay), he should ask other people first to calculate first.

But because of his limitation, he is a less successful coach. Please realize that Misbun is not the greatest coach yet. You sound like because he cannot calculate so he's the greatest coach. That's against logic.

One reason stops him from the greatest coach is probably that he cannot calculate. Let's back to this WC, he said it's Taufik, not Lindan, the most dangerous opponent. Then why he's happy that Lee CW got the 2nd seed. Since LCW got the 2nd seed, he could meet the most dangerous Taufik in QF. So if Misbun were smart, he would arrange Lee CW's ranking in the 5-8. That way, Lee CW would definitely not meet Taufik before SF. That's the simple power of the calculation.

ye333

08-02-2007, 12:44 PM

There is the possibility that this "someone" miscalculated and Misbun is just blindly using the data, right? Anyway it just a minor issue. I am just saying it's no big deal if Misbun miscalculated.

I didn't say Misbun is already a great coach. It depends on the performance of LCW in the following few weeks.

LCW is not strong enough to pick a "lower position", many players besides LD and TH can have real threat to him (In contrast, for example, for LD the only real threats are TH and LCW. But for LD, lose in QF or lose in SF do not make much difference, his only goal is the champion). So No. 2, or if possible, No. 1 is still his best choice. And Misbun is just comparing LD and TH from his own perspective, I don't see anything wrong.

It is even okay if Misbun cannot calculate. As you suggested, there must be someone else in the team to do that. But it is Misbun's fault that he made his miscalculation public. Since he cannot calculate (which is okay), he should ask other people first to calculate first.

But because of his limitation, he is a less successful coach. Please realize that Misbun is not the greatest coach yet. You sound like because he cannot calculate so he's the greatest coach. That's against logic.

One reason stops him from the greatest coach is probably that he cannot calculate. Let's back to this WC, he said it's Taufik, not Lindan, the most dangerous opponent. Then why he's happy that Lee CW got the 2nd seed. Since LCW got the 2nd seed, he could meet the most dangerous Taufik in QF. So if Misbun were smart, he would arrange Lee CW's ranking in the 5-8. That way, Lee CW would definitely not meet Taufik before SF. That's the simple power of the calculation.

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:47 PM

In Taufik's case, I believe he claimed that he actually prefers to be in an inconspicuous position. No. 10 is actually a pretty good position for him.

In LYB's case, he cannot afford to have the slightest chance to lose in Sudirman cup (also Thomas cup, Uber cup, etc.). So he always try to use the strongest players. Also, it is a good strategy to accumulate as many points as possible for LD, if you remember his claim a few months ago that once LD has got so many points that he will be No.1 seed in the Olympics anyway, he can afford to lose even in earlier rounds to help CJ, BCL, etc. (Because they may meet in early rounds due to the new way of making draws).

That's the typical example of misunderstanding mathematics.

Winning one in Sudirman is 7,000+ points, Winning 2 is 8,000+ point. Wining 3,4, even all possible is still 8,000+ points.

From Lin Dan's view, we cannot say he's wrong in Mathematics, he just try to maximize his points while minimize others, including teammates as many as possible. He even said, his teammates lose nothing without playing because they can get even more points in the WC. That's ridiculous!

But for LYB, it is a typical example of misunderstanding mathematics. How can CJ, CY, BCL missing those 7,000+ points and gain in the future from Lin Dan. Even Lin Dan let them win, you know, even in the super series, it's just about 1,000 points.

What can I say, they are all cheated by Lin dan, including you. ;):rolleyes::D

huangkwokhau

08-02-2007, 12:53 PM

I think we go too deep for this matter...Misbun has a right to say whose player he is fearing...if we talk to him...I am sure he will explain WHY....
Lets wait for next 10 days when WC starts...
Honestly...if even the coaches or players know the ranking system...it does not mean if they participate, they will be in higher position...you may lose 1st or 2nd round then lower ranking players play better in A or B tounaments, he will be ahead of you...so you may say that you can try to get the ranking position as you wish...

For example..my good friend, yayuk basuki ( tennis player) also trying to qualify for certain tournaments by playing more..but she did not go futher in those tournaments as other players ( whose ranking were lower than her) surpass her and qualify for certain tournaments thus she had to play qualifying rounds....

I think it is hard for me to explain in this forum...just too long to type...hehe

2cents

08-02-2007, 12:54 PM

FYI Misbun can count and etc

Again agreeing most of them who discuss this matter.Misbun's role is to make good players and i dont think that he has the time to calculate all the ranking points and etc.

I am sure someone else in the team can help him do that.Its not a one man show it is a team thing in the background.

There is the possibility that this "someone" miscalculated and Misbun is just blindly using the data, right? Anyway it just a minor issue. I am just saying it's no big deal if Misbun miscalculated.

At least, from this tiny error, we found out that Malaysia as a team, (not limited to Misbun), lacking the depth in calculating.

So when he confide his calculating other players, we don't need to take it seriously.

OneToughBirdie

08-02-2007, 12:58 PM

[quote=2cents;626714] Taufik doesn't know mathematics and more desperately, there is none around him knows mathematics to help him. Another example is Li Yongbo, who doesn't know mathematics.

I think somewhere I read and I think Cooler would agree too;) that Misban/Misbun (whatever, hahaha!!!) has a bachelor degree with distinction in pure Math 501, TH has a master degree in pure math scoring 99% and LYB has a PHD in pure math too (don't bother asking for score, gotta be high to be PHD)...hahaha!!!
Being human who makes mistake after a drink of rum or two glasses of Carlsberg beer, we should forgive the trio of Ban/Bun, LYB and TH because even math genius can make mistake...just check with my financial planner, he mess in predicting what stock can go up or bust, fire the guy...hahaha!!!:p:p:D:D

ye333

08-02-2007, 01:04 PM

But keep this in mind. What if LYB fielded CJ, BCL and they lost? That would be a disaster. If you remember, LD claimed after his injury that he may miss the Sudirman cup, and LYB soon refuted that, confirming that LD will play.

And furthermore, if LYB fielded CJ and CJ lost, it is LYB's fault, because he did not field the stronger player LD. But if LYB fielded LD and lost, it is LD's fault. In fact we have all seen the latter situation happened in the Sudirman cup.

That's the typical example of misunderstanding mathematics.

Winning one in Sudirman is 7,000+ points, Winning 2 is 8,000+ point. Wining 3,4, even all possible is still 8,000+ points.

From Lin Dan's view, we cannot say he's wrong in Mathematics, he just try to maximize his points while minimize others, including teammates as many as possible. He even said, his teammates lose nothing without playing because they can get even more points in the WC. That's ridiculous!

But for LYB, it is a typical example of misunderstanding mathematics. How can CJ, CY, BCL missing those 7,000+ points and gain in the future from Lin Dan. Even Lin Dan let them win, you know, even in the super series, it's just about 1,000 points.

What can I say, they are all cheated by Lin dan, including you. ;):rolleyes::D

ye333

08-02-2007, 01:10 PM

My point is that cannot calculate well doesn't mean Misbun does not have good judgment regarding badminton. These two issues are irrelevant.

By the way personally I disagree with him regarding who between TH and LD are a bigger threat to LCW in this particular WC. My guess is that Misbun just likes TH's style more, which compared to LD's style is much more similar to his own style. Or maybe he is just trying to boost LCW's confidence against LD.

So when he confide his calculating other players, we don't need to take it seriously.

bic33

08-02-2007, 01:10 PM

2cents

08-02-2007, 01:17 PM

ye333

08-02-2007, 01:24 PM

I don't think LYB knew beforehand that Poompat instead of Boonsak will play. Remember LYB's comment after the match? And Smith is actually a good player, very powerful. BP, Smith, Park: I would say they do have certain chance beating either CJ or BCL.

And please pay attention to my second paragraph. When is the last time we heard LYB sincerely blaming himself? I don't remember. As I said, if he lets CJ or BCL play, there is possibility that he may be blamed. But if he let LD play, he can push everything onto LD. And this just happened, right? He blamed LD and LD only for his loss to LCW.

Even Sony and Kenneth went to play.

There are 4 opponents: Poompat, Smith, Park and Lee CW.

The only one difficult to win was Lee CW, and Lin Dan lost.

CJ or Bao lost to poompat, Smith and Park? Even that had happend, China could still won 4:1 instead of 5:0.

USAfan

08-02-2007, 02:34 PM

These Canadians ---- they speak french more than english. So you cannot blame them.:D BTW, Cooler are you real dinkum Canadian or a foreign born Canadian ?
Correction, more french speaking in Quebec Province - Montreal city. :)

cooler

08-02-2007, 02:37 PM

My point is that cannot calculate well doesn't mean Misbun does not have good judgment regarding badminton. These two issues are irrelevant.

By the way personally I disagree with him regarding who between TH and LD are a bigger threat to LCW in this particular WC. My guess is that Misbun just likes TH's style more, which compared to LD's style is much more similar to his own style. Or maybe he is just trying to boost LCW's confidence against LD.

that is why it's hard to debate with some of u because u guys invent new excuses on the fly when the old ones(ie." Let's say Misbun is illiterate, can do 1+1.") get quashed.

USAfan

08-02-2007, 02:43 PM

On the contrary, it is unfair not to call him the best player in the world if he wins.

Perhaps what you wanted to say was it is unfair to call him an all-time best world player.
Totally agree, if LCW wins the WC2007, he should be recognised as the best player till the next WC. He will be considered as the current champion regardless if he wins again in the next tournament. As for best player in the world, that will be determined by history. Hopefully, all of us will be here on BC to give that evaluation when LCW hangs up his racquet.

cooler

08-02-2007, 02:45 PM

ye333

08-02-2007, 03:13 PM

I don't see why you quote my post. I am not the one blaming LYB's math.

In sudirman LYB can't be blamed for losing MS title, doesn't this proves he's pretty good in mathematical reasoning? When people complained that LYB manipulated outcome on certain china vs china matches, isn't this also evidence of LYB's math at play?

ye333

08-02-2007, 03:16 PM

Your attack of me is near ridiculous. I am just giving possible reasons why Misbun would say what he said (TH bigger threat than LD to LCW). Now if you think that's ridiculous, give me your analysis. And mind you, I am not agreeing with Misbun. :confused:

I don't think I was trying to find excuses for anyone in the post you quoted. Also if you say " Let's say Misbun is illiterate, can do 1+1." (there is a typo here, I meant "cannot" do 1+1) is an "excuse", I am simply speechless. :eek:

that is why it's hard to debate with some of u because u guys invent new excuses on the fly when the old ones(ie." Let's say Misbun is illiterate, can do 1+1.") get quashed.

Blurry D

08-02-2007, 08:23 PM

*faints* *Pukes blood*

People what Misbun said is based not his gut feeling and forecasting.I dont think it does matter if LCW is at the top in the raking.I think he careless.He just want LCW to win WC..

This a very lame and useless discussion. First it was misban then LYB. totally have nothing to do with LYB..

Come on mates lets just stick to is LCW going to win WC on 19th august...

X Ball

08-02-2007, 08:43 PM

You are a heck of a man.So bloody
sure.You have the foresight.I agree whole-heartedly with you in your conviction.Misbun and LCW what a lethal combination.

LOL, I would not have been so sure if LCW had not shown that he could come back and play at his best again.

I like what I see and I say what I mean.:D

Good on ya, cheers.

Loh

08-02-2007, 09:00 PM

Testing with my low level french......como ta le voo Cooler ?

Bon jour!

Don't let cooler lose his cool and attack us with his smattering of French! :cool:

Good day, my friend :)

cooler

08-02-2007, 09:45 PM

Bon jour!

Don't let cooler lose his cool and attack us with his smattering of French! :cool:

Good day, my friend :)LOL, ya, it could be bloody messy:p

X Ball

08-02-2007, 09:59 PM

LOL, ya, it could be bloody messy:p

I am glad you got a good sense of humour.

Cheers.

Loh

08-02-2007, 10:12 PM

Misbun versus Mulyo

Misbun Sidek is LCW's coach now. He was also his coach before Li Mao arrived at the scene and took over LCW. Li Mao was inferior to Misbun during their past matches when they had the rare occasion to meet.

We also know quite a bit about Misbun and his badminton fanatic family with their well known Sidek brothers who had won many international accolades for Malaysia. Misbun himself was particularly a very good but defiant singles player who had always been a first choice for Malaysia during his prime. Unfortunately he had never won the AE title also, just like TH now.

But as a coach, Misbun is a changed man. Unlike his younger days when he so often confronted the Administration, not much different from what TH has been dealing out to PBSI nowadays, Misbun has matured and takes things in his stride. Of recent past, I have not seen him flaring up in anger or confronting BAM in the open. During those times at international tournaments like the SS when he had to coach his player at the sidelines, he would quietly take down notes and guide his charge accordingly.

What a changed man!

But little is known of TH's coach, Mulyo Handoyo. I sometimes bumped into him at the SBA when he was coaching Ronald Susilo in Singapore. He seemed to be a simple man often caught smoking his cigarette.

I have no knowledge of his past glories, whether he was as good a player as Misbun. Did he ever represent Indonesia? If Mulyo was not a great player himself, how come TH could turn out to be such a good player.

I read somewhere that Mulyo had been TH's club coach since young. The emotional attachment must be there and Mulyo must have understood TH very well to bring out his qualities although TH seemed to be a difficult player to please judging by what he had demonstrated on court and off it. So close was their relationship that TH defended Mulyo on many occasions and refused to change coach, in defiance of PBSI authority.

Could anyone here reveal more about Mulyo?

What makes a good coach? Does a coach need to be a very good player himself?

Yes we have discussed this so often but yet to come up with a set of qualites that makes a coach successful and distinctive. Comparing Misbun, Mulyo and Mao, what makes them different and effective?

bic33

08-02-2007, 10:25 PM

I think the emotional attachment is what made Mulyo a very good coach to taufik... He was like a father to taufik... I think only Mulyo has gained taufik's trust...

X Ball

08-02-2007, 10:40 PM

Misbun versus Mulyo

What makes a good coach? Does a coach need to be a very good player himself?

Yes we have discussed this so often but yet to come up with a set of qualites that makes a coach successful and distinctive. Comparing Misbun, Mulyo and Mao, what makes them different and effective?

In my mind a good coach is one who can bring out the best in a player, easily reflected in the wins of the players.

A coach could be a very skilful player himself, thus knowing what to impart to his player. If Mulyo is not a good player, then how did he impart such great knowledge to TH. This, therefore, leads me to believe you need not necessarily be a good player yourself to be a great coach.

A coach is a very much a sales person, very capable in effective communication. He is able to sell to his player so much so the player believes in what the coach says. Now if he happens to say all the right things then it would be good for the player.

Even though I am not a great player in my times, I think I can be a great coach. I have seen enough of how the game is played to be able to communicate with the players on why they lost or won. Mulyo is a great communicator with TH, and TH respects him and takes everything from Mulyo in the correct way.

The fact that LCW went back to Misbun is because he knows Misbun is capable of communicating his methods to him effectively. Besides, Misbun was a great player in his times (noted for his great smashes and speed), and LCW had success with Misbun prior to Li Mao.

You would then ask me why Misbun has not been able to coach Hafiz effectively too. Well, he did coz he lead him to win the AE. There is so much a great coach can do but a lot has to be done by the player himself. Hafiz was acknowledging last week that he needs to step up in his speed dept and Misbun has clearly identified that for him.

My conclusion is that a good coach needs to be effective in communicating his methods to the players. In so doing, he will be able to motivate them too to greater heights. I stand to be corrected but I think Hafiz will prove that Misbun is a great coach in the WC....he will step up now with the focus on him. Misbun, well, he can take a bow now because many acknowledge him to be a great coach, including me of course.

Loh

08-02-2007, 11:17 PM

Wah X Ball, first time you're so serious ah!

So guys, don't count yo-yo Hafiz out! He has done it before and he will do it again! He has promised to step up his game. Remember he recently beat LCW to the surprise of many! And while TH is still unable to capture the AE title, Hafiz has done it to the delight of Malaysian fans!

Misbun is the man and is able to psyche his charges to do the almost impossible!

Let that Magic return again!

taufik-ist

08-02-2007, 11:21 PM

Misbun versus Mulyo

What makes a good coach? Does a coach need to be a very good player himself?

no need to be a player before, a coach must have a capability to do a game analysis, have very good badminton strategy knowledge.

Jose Mourinho was not a football player, he was a college graduation.
but he is very good football coach...

X Ball

08-02-2007, 11:22 PM

Wah X Ball, first time you're so serious ah!

I am no more than you.:D Except I don't post photos. :)

ctjcad

08-02-2007, 11:22 PM

But little is known of TH's coach, Mulyo Handoyo. I sometimes bumped into him at the SBA when he was coaching Ronald Susilo in Singapore. He seemed to be a simple man often caught smoking his cigarette.

I have no knowledge of his past glories, whether he was as good a player as Misbun. Did he ever represent Indonesia? If Mulyo was not a great player himself, how come TH could turn out to be such a good player.

I read somewhere that Mulyo had been TH's club coach since young. The emotional attachment must be there and Mulyo must have understood TH very well to bring out his qualities although TH seemed to be a difficult player to please judging by what he had demonstrated on court and off it. So close was their relationship that TH defended Mulyo on many occasions and refused to change coach, in defiance of PBSI authority.

Could anyone here reveal more about Mulyo?

What makes a good coach? Does a coach need to be a very good player himself?

Yes we have discussed this so often but yet to come up with a set of qualites that makes a coach successful and distinctive. Comparing Misbun, Mulyo and Mao, what makes them different and effective?
..Loh, interesting set of questions you have, especially towards the end of your post...But, perhaps, a new thread should be dedicated to those questions, specifically..;):cool:

I might've shared this before in BC, but i had a very2 brief opportunity to chat with coach Mulyo during the 2005 WC. From what i observed, he's a very simple, down-to-earth and straightforward person. He seemed to know what he wanted and didn't like to "waste time". Pretty "serious" guy, if i may add.

Anyway, to give some light on your queries, actually i found there have been several threads in BC which touched on Mulyo Handoyo's and his relationship as Taufik's coach/mentor.
I think what bic33 and X Ball posted abt Mulyo being Taufik's coach are pretty right on..;)

In short, the likely reasons why Mulyo is a "perfect" coach for Taufik are (taken from links below):
-"his understanding and patience seems to set him apart from other coaches.."
-"He knows how to handle me and we are always together. He is the only coach who really understands me." Taufik stated.
IMO, the key is, to find someone who can speak and inspire into the very heart of his/her student/pupil..which is, of course, not very easy..;)

As for what i can find on the internet (through Google search), here are a few links which probably can shed some lights on your queries...I think the articles will give us more clarity to what is/are the keys to Mulyo's success..mind you, the first link is in Indonesian:p, so perhaps someone can help translate it for us..Also in the last link below, you'll read a very brief biography on Mulyo's life/career;)
http://www.indomedia.com/bpost/082004/22/depan/utama2.htm
http://www.yehey.com/gadgets/articles.aspx?id=5678
http://www.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp?fileid=20040904.S01

Loh

08-03-2007, 12:04 AM

Thanks Chris for the Jakarta Post Feature on Mulyo, coincidently published today but was first reported by Eva C. Komandjaja (our BC member?) on 4 Sep 2004.

Yes although Mulyo never represented Indonesia as a player, it would appear that his badminton knowledge is good enough to transform an ordinary player like TH (when he was in his teens) into a great player.

And the magic appears to lie in his ability to impart his knowledge and motivate TH to do his best. His very close liaison with TH from the very beginning has blossomed into something like a 'father-son' relationship, whereby one cannot do without the other.

The faith and commitment in each other is best illustrated by the promise that TH made to Mulyo to do his level best for the 2004 Olympics in order to entice Mulyo back from coaching Ronald Susilo in Singapore. In barely six months, TH's resumed partnership with Mulyo won him the coveted Olympic crown!

ctjcad

08-03-2007, 12:10 AM

Thanks Chris for the Jakarta Post Feature on Mulyo, coincidently published today but was first reported by Eva C. Komandjaja (our BC member?) on 4 Sep 2004.
..the actual article was published in 2004-I guess Jakarta Post keeps track and archives those articles, eventhough it gives 2 different dates on the article..And the writer could be a BC member (as her name sounds oh so familiar);)....Btw, hope to see you soon in KL!!:);)

cooler

08-03-2007, 12:24 AM

..Loh, interesting set of questions you have, especially towards the end of your post...But, perhaps, a new thread should be dedicated to those questions, specifically..;):cool:

check here:D

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19499&highlight=coach&page=6

OneToughBirdie

08-03-2007, 12:43 AM

[quote=OneToughBirdie;626740]

you've got to be kididng me, LYB and TH has master's and PHD in Math?? lol :p
I am teasing 2cents...relax, laughing is the best form of therapy and you live longer, you fall for my jokes...hahaha!!! Can't you see this 'wink' symbol;)
good night or good day, cheers!!!

cooler

09-02-2008, 03:05 AM