Another questions for professional stringers

[Frank]

I have always belived that when stringing a racket, the cross string should be 1-2 lbs more than the main in order to maintain the head shape of the racket. However, today when I strung my Mp77, with 22Lbs main and 23.5Lbs cross, it seems that the head has been streched longer as if the tension of the cross is too high(or the Main's tension is too low)...So I am confused..
So,does it means that the recommandation of "the tension of the cross should be 1-2Lbs higher than main" in fact means that you should string it with the main and cross at the SAME tension but when finished, the cross will be 1-2lbs tighter(due to weaving?), which does NOT means that you should string the cross at 1-2Lbs tighter than the main in the first place.
BTW, before that, I string quite a bit for myself and my friends, and I use a decent stringer in my club(which has two point supports),and this is the first time I encounter this.(my ti-10&Sp900sr all seems ok)
Maybe it's just my Mp77.....
Thanks for you time.

[badminton_fan]

The same tension for the main and cross should be applied to MP77 only, i think it's due to the head design of the racket. I've try to string the same tension(cross & main) for MP77, the shape is just perfect.
For the other rackets, the cross tension has to be higher in order to maintain the head shape, I've strung 27/main & 30/cross
for the Ti10.

[YY Fan]

Dear Frank,

According to my past stringing experience, if your stringing machine only has 2 points, the cross will be 1 to 2 lbs higher. After strining the main, both sides of the racket frame will bend outward (no protectors as in an old 2 points stringing machine), that makes the whole frame looks more round than before, in order to re-shape the frame to its original frame, one has to add more tension on the cross to make the sides of the frame bend inward, to restore its original shape.

On the other hand, if your stringing machine has 4 points (wiht 2 protectors on both sides), the cross should be reduce by 1 to 2 lbs instead. A 4-points stringing machine has already protected the original shape of the racket, when you set the frame on the stringing machine.

As there are two wings (protectors) on both sides, these wings have prevented the sides of the racket frame from bending outward during the stringing process.

Therefore, there is no need to add additional tension on the cross in a 4-points stringing machine. if you do add additional 1 to 2 lbs on the cross, in the case of a 4-points stringing machine, both sides of the frame will be pushed inward and the whole frame will look very narrow ! Stringing in this way not only distort the shape of the racket, but also will even break the racket frame on the 2, 4, 8, 10 o'clock positions.

Thus, in the case of 4-point stringing machine, it is no good to string the racket with cross increase by 1 to 2 lbs, nor string both the cross and main at the same tension, the best way is to reduce 1 to 2 lbs on the cross, compared to the main.

According to my experience, this stringing philosophy is applicable to all kinds of head shape, no matter it is traditional box oval shape or wide/box Isometric head shape.

Most of the YY rackets has recommended the cross with higher tension, YY assume that most of the stringers use 2-points stringing machines more often than 4-points ones. Even some stringers will uninstall the "wings" as they find it need more time to set up the "wings", particulary when time is a factor.

Frankly speaking, 2-points stringing machines is not suggested to string in high tension as there is no protection on the sides of the frame. That is why many stringers have to add on the "wings" on the stringing machines in the stringing service center of many international badminton competitions, as most of the international players prefer high tension.

To finalize, stringing your racket in a 4-point stringing machine is much better than the two-points one. As a 4-points stringing machine give more protection and keep the original shape of your racket much better.

Frank, I hope you find my informaiton useful.

[Winex West Can]

YY Fan,
That is very good information. So to summarize, if you are using a 2-point machine, it is advisable to string the cross at higher tension (to pull in the sides of the frame) but if you have a 4-point or higher machine, it is better to string the cross at lower tension (1-2 lbs) to retain the shape of the frame.

Also, a 2-point machine is not recommended for stringing at high tension (> 24 lbs??). I have a 2-point drop weight machine and I find it frustrating to string racquets higher than 22 lbs.

Thanks for the info :D

[Frank]

I will try this when I string next time...Thanks again YY fan

[kwun]

YYF,

that was very informative. just curious, are you a stringer working for a shop?

[Matt]

Frank,

Well I had a chat to my badminton stringer at my store and asked how he does badminton rackets. He saids he makes the cross and main the same. (ie 22.75 lb, will be 22.75 for both cross+main.) He also mentioned that it's sort of sticking hairs out when hacing the cross+main different because the strings will be pulled to equal out anways (or something that, I forgot what exactly he said).

[YY Fan]

Dear Kwun,

I was a part-time stringer several years ago.

I learn my stringing technique and theory mainly through years of chating with different stringers from different shops, together with my observation.

I would like to supplement a point I mentioned before. Why stringing in a 4-pts stringing machine, the cross has to reduce tension by 1 to 2 lbs ? But not stringing both main and cross at the same tension ?

The reason is the cross is shorter than the main, applying the same tension, let say 22lbs on both the main and the cross, the cross will be even more tighter than the main, though of the same tension.

You can imagine when applying the same tension on a 1m string and another 2m string, you will indeed find the shorter string ( 1m ) more tighter. That means if you apply 22 lbs on both cross and main, the cross will be tighter than the main, this will distort a bit the frame shape, particularly in the case of weaker frame rackets, the sides of the frame will bend inward and make the frame look narrow and long. Hence my reason for reducing the cross by 1 to 2 lbs.

The most ideal tension difference between the main and cross is 10%, let say you want to string your racket at 22 lbs, the main will be 22 lbs whereas the cross will then be 20 lbs, if stringing at higher tension like 27 lbs, the main will be 27 lbs and the cross will be 24 lbs, and so on.

In my opinion, it is the most ideal and saver stringing method. Why few, if any, stringer use this method ? Cause of time factor and commercialisation. If you are a leisure badminton player, having your own stringing machine, you can have time to string your racket in the way I recommended. How come will an employed stringer, spend extra effort to string rackets from others - mainly due to commercialisation.

Besides, another issue here, does anyone here notice the difference, advantages and disadvantages on the 2 knots and 4 knots stringing method ?

If someone interested, please inform me via this forum and I shall reply soon.


YY Fan

[Frank]

Base on what I know, 2 knots means string the whole racket with one piece of string, 4 knots means cut the string into 4.5m ane 5.5m and string the main and cross seperately, which is the only way to achieve different tension for the main and cross.

and BTW, YY Fan, I checked the shape of my Mp77's head, and noticed the shape is still narrower than unstrung head(the head is just a bit longer..maybe 2-3mm). the machine I used has a 2 points support, and I strung the cross 2lbs more than the main...that is so weird. I did the same on my Ti-10 and Iso Sp900 and there are fine(the only different is that I used Ashway Rally21 micro for the Mp77 and YY bg70 for the other two)

[Winex West Can]

YY Fan,
I am intrigued by your last comment. I would be interested in learning more about the pros and cons of one piece stringing vs two piece stringing. Also, I'd noticed that in one piece stringing, some stringers have the two knots on the same side of the frame and some have them on different sides citing that it balances out the frame (hence string tension) better.

Thanks.

[YY Fan]

Dear Frank,

Bingo ! You are right. Exactly what you mention. 2-knots means stringing a racket with a whole piece of string, whereas 4-knots requires a whole string to be cut into 2 parts - one for cross and one for main. I shall mention the pros and cons of these two stringing methods on this forum later on. First of all, I would like to share some of my experience with you as follows.

The head frame of Yonex Ti-10 is very hard, so even inappropriate stringing tension between the cross and main will only affect the head shape just a little bit. Such shape distortion is unremarkable. I really have this stringing experience.

On the other hand, if the head frame is made of softer carbon fiber material like Winnex rackets from Taiwan, which cannot stand up higher tension, there is still chance of head frame shape-distortion, even using my suggested stringing method.

I have once consulted a profound stringer, who had once been assigned by the Hong Kong Yonex distributor to string rackets for international players like Sun Jun, Arby and Alan B. etc, during the 1996 Thomas and Uber Club held in HK.

He was also using my suggested stringing method to string rackets for them. He said in case of high tension like 25 lbs, 27 lbs or even higher, there was NO WAY to prevent shape distortion, there was a least a little bit shape distortion, it was only a question of degree of distortion, high or low.

In addition, different material and different thickness (gauge) of strings will have different tension result, even stringing all the different strings at the same tension.

For Yonex Ti-65 or Ti-68, since the material is harder, the tension result will be tighter than BG65 which is a type of comparatively soft string, even using the same tension on them. Besides, harder strings can hold tension longer.

For Yonex BG66, the gauge is 0.66mm, Yonex BG70, the gauge is 0.7mm, the tension result of BG66 will be tighter than BG70 cause the gauge of BG66 is thinner, even using the same tension on them. There, BG66 at 21 lbs is equal to BG70 at 22 lbs !

Therefore, Frank, Rally 21 Micro 21 is a thin string, you can now imagine the tension result of the cross, or the impact of the cross on your MP77, particulary when you additionally add 1 to 2 lbs on the cross but THIN string.

I hope this piece of information is a hint to your question.


YY Fan

[Frank]

YY Fan:
You are absolutely right! I completely agree with you on the fact that the Ti-10 has a tougher head frame, probably due to the Ti in the head while Mp77 doesn't has it. Also various type of string's characteristics.

And your extensive knowledge of stringing is very appriciated.
Thank you!

[YY Fan]

Dear Frank,

Not at all, you are welcome.

I only hope to share some of my experience with badminton fans like you.



YY Fan

[olli]

The normal stringing pattern for badminton rackets has 22 main strings. That means, the 2 last main strings are ending near the joint part of the racket head.
If you're using the 2 knots method, you will now start with the cross strings, where one of the mains has ended. So you will work your way up to the top of the head, which is the weakest part of the frame. This means, that you are "pulling" the tension towards the weakest part, what is statically not recommenable (if you are stringing with higher tension). You can compare this situation with ovulating an egg: it starts with the narrower part pulling the tension towards the rounder (more solid) part (btw: that's the reason, why traditional shaped frames are more solid than iso shaped rackets). Using the 4 knots technique, you allways start stringing the crosses at the top of the racket head working your way downwards.

[YY Fan]

Dear Peter Kho,

You are right. 2-knots stringing method is using a whole string for both main and cross, whereas 4-knots stringing method is cutting a whole string into 2 pieces, one for the main and the other for the cross.

Normally, the total length of the main equals to 8 times of the length of a badminton racket.

2-knots stringing method advantage :

It save time and minimize the waste of badminton string. Certainly, 2-knots stringing method does not need to measure and cut the whole string into main and cross. Besides, after stringing the main, the stringer can then directly string the cross without cutting away the remaining string ends ( in the case of 4-knots stringing method ). This help to economize the use of string. Very often, in many sports shop, stringers would like to stock rolls of string, instead of packet of string, so that the stringer can make better use of, or economize the string (no string ends left as in the case of 4-knots stringing method). Hence, 2-knots stringing method is widely used by shops stringers as time and cost of string can be minimized. That's why some badminton rackets like Pro-Kennex and Carlton, they come with string in 2-knots, as in the case of mass production, you know time and string cost must be considered.

2-knots stringing method disadvantage :

The advantage of 2-knots stringing method is FATAL !
One can notice that the top frame is narrower than the bottom part of the frame. A badminton racket normally has totally 72 grommets, after stringing all the main, the last two main strings will be through the 12th grommets on both sides of the frame (counting from the T-joint upward), where these two grommets are located near the bottom part of the frame. In the case of 2-knots stringing method, the stringer will then continue to direct the original head string near the bottom of the frame, he is then forced to string the cross in a reverse direction (as long as the stringer hasn't cut the whole string after stringing the main) FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE FRAME UP TO THE TOP ! In this way, the pressure and the force during stringing will be pushed upward from the bottom to the top, finally, the top of the frame will become more round than before, or more serious, the top frame will be forced to break !
This 2-knots stringing method can only be used with low tension, let say 18 lbs. I personally highly discourage using this 2-knots stringing method, particularly on high grade badminton rackets.

The pros and cons of 2-knots and 4-knots are just the opposite. Most international badminton players are stringing their rackets in 4-knots.

I am sorry as my English is only so so, should there be any area not expressive, please forgive.

How you find this information interesting.



YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Olli,

We see eye to eye ! Certainly you are also a very professional stringer, what you mentioned is more expressive than mine.

Thank you very much for your response to my question and sharing your valubale experience with all of us.


YY Fan

[olli]

Dear YY Fan,
you're welcome. As it means so much fun for me to talk about badminton related stuff in any kind, I actually have to say thank you, too. :)

[Sony]

Hi everyone. :) Very good discussion. :) YY Fan, so what I have been using for the past few years for tension of cross to be 2lbs. higher is wrong? Yonex recommends 2lbs. higher on cross is improper? Very confused. :( I understand your disecting of the theory of 2lbs. higher for main. That means most stringers are wrong about the 2lbs. higher on the cross?

[Winex West Can]

YY Fan/Olli,
Thank you very much for your information. It was very informative and eye-opening. I have personally prefer one piece stringing having been brought up that way.

Thanks again.

[Mike]

Excellent discussion, guys. Kwun, is it possible to document this somewhere? :-)

[kwun]

yes. i feel the same, this is very good stuff. it will definitely go in the FAQ. the FAQ... well.. the FAQ is in the process of being created... :)

[Cheung]

Thanks to YY fan for those intricate details. I thought they were very good.

There are a couple points I'd like to make from my very limited experience.

1 piece stringing: since cross strings have to be strung from the t piece end of the racquet, yes, there is a risk of distortion. But I think at normal reccomended tensions, it won't make much difference. But at high tensions, the stress on the frame will be amplified.

If stringing at high tensions, is it advisable to start the cross strings from topo to bottom or bottom to top. Or is it better to start pulling the strings from the middle strings first and then working up to the top of the racquet and then to the bottom.
This small technique variation might be the reason why people say you must have a good stringer for high tensions.

For the tension difference at different length of string, that would mean the strings around the sweet spot can be higher but the peripheral strings need to be pulled at lower tension to even out the racquet frame stresses. e.g. for the mains strings, the middle four strings could be pulled to 32lbs and the strings at the side pulled to 30lbs. Is that assumption correct? Or should the side strings be pulled to an even lower tension?

[cooler]

yy fan, on the 2 point system, why do u say "One can notice that the top frame is narrower than the bottom part of the frame" while later u say "In this way, the pressure and the force during stringing will be pushed upward from the bottom to the top, finally, the top of the frame will become more round than before"

ie, why u say narrow at top and later say bulging at top using 2 point system?

btw, i never use 2 point system on my or my client rackets, it meant to save stringing time for the stringer, like u have said.

[YY Fan]

Dear Cheung,

Thank you so much for your valuable informaton here.

Yes, I agree with you. 2-knots stringing method is suitable for normal tension like 18 lbs, instead of high tension. High stringing tension should use 4-pts stringing machine with 4-knots stringing method, like those international players' rackets.

Your assumption of having the 4 main strings with high tension, and the other mains with lower tension also works. It is only a matter of whether the stringer has time to make this adjustment from time to time. I personally will string all the main with the same tension.

Nevertheless, when the racket frame is weakened or becomes soft as time goes on, some tension adjustment has to be made on these type of frame-weakened rackets, so as to avoid breakage of the frame.


YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Cooler,

Thank you for your question, I try my best to respond here.

The top frame will become more round during 2-knots stringing method, cause the pressure is pushing up from the bottom of the frame, towards the top, when the cross is starting from the bottom.

You can imagine a wooden oval ring (like the frame of an oval badminton racket), if you add pressure on both sides at the bottom, the force will be driven upward and finally make the top part look more round than before.

I hope this example can help to illustrate my point.


YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Sony,

Thank you so much for raising question to me. I have mentioned your point in my previous article, maybe my article is too long, hence my summary here. Maybe you can also refer to Peter Kho's summary, it is a very good and clear article, here, I have to sincerely thank Peter Kho for making his summary for us.

Whether cross increase by 2 lbs right or wrong, all depends on what type of stringing machine you use. If yours is a 2-points stringing machine, it is recommended to increase the cross by 1 to 2 lbs.

On the other hand, if yours is a 4-points stringing machine with 2 side-protectors, it is recommended to reduce the cross by 1 to 2 lbs.

Yonex assume most of the stringers will use 2-points stringings machines MORE OFTEN than 4-points stringing machines, as in a commercialized world, hence Yonex recommend the cross with higher tension.

Many stringers like following the tension recommended by Yonex, but in my opinion, they have often overlooked another factor - the type of stringing machine they are acutally using.

Some stringers may know this stringing trick, but to save time and minimize the cost of string, they will use 2-points string machine (sometimes they will uninstall the two protectors for their convenience during the stringing process, even it is really a 4-points stringing machine) with 2-knots stringing method.

In case of low tension like 18 lbs, that is still all right, but this is highly discouraged in case of high tension stringing.

I hope you find my informaiton helpful.


YY Fan

[cooler]

thanks for your reiteration however i do understand the pressure buildup at the frame top. I just don't know why at first u said the head top will be narrower in one sentence and later sentence you then say the top half of the frame get bulged out.
Don't worry about it, it was just a technicality question.
I do understand the dynamic of different stress progression under the 'conventional' 2 and 4 points system which i don't use on my personal and clients rackets anyway.

[Cheung]

If the top of the frame bulges out from a previous stringing asnd has been in that condition for a while, is it possible to correct the shape by restringng in the proper fashion (presuming the bulges are symmetrical).??

[viver]

YY Fan:
This is really quite informative thread. Thank you for sharing your experience. I have limited experience and if you don't mind like to ask some questions:
1) stringing main and crosses, you've mentioned main and crosses tension difference which I agree. I've watched my coach string manually and he feels each main string tension before doing the crosses. He listens to the sound and decides if the tension is suitable. Then he goes to the cross ones.
I have a stringing machine and usually string the cross with 2 lbs higher. Theoretically using a machine to string should be more precise, however I feel the racquets my coach used to string feels much better. Don't know the reason and I'm unable to string my racquets like him. Any ideas?

2) About the 2 knots method. I'm aware the problems doing cross string from bottom up. However a friend mentioned that he is using a 2 point machine using this 2 point method. What he does is stretch the racquet head and then string at high tension 24 lbs or more and so far he has been successful. He showed me the racquets done with this method, though the shape is changed a little but so far the racquets are doing quite well. Don't know if anybody have similar experience.

[Kelvin]

just one thing I've learned, and quick to add, even though I think this thread has finished...
I DO NOT ADVISE ANYONE TO STRING FROM THE BOTTOM UP, AS TOPS OF THE FRAMES FOR JUST ABOUT ANY RACQUET ARE WEAKER, THAN THE AREAS AROUND THE T...
as the tension builds up on the head of the racquet, the bottom portion of the frame is able to sustain the pressure from the forces... looking at most racquets even the tapered frames... the top is almost always the thinner part of the racquet, that is why it's advisable for stringers to always start from top to bottom on the crosses.

[Kelvin]

I'm thinking if the frame is stuck with the bulge, for lack of a better term; I'm not sure if it can be totally corrected by stringing it properly I personally think the frame is already weakened. But of course I could be wrong, but that's my guess from what I've seen thus far.

[Kelvin]

bit of a question for you here...
I had been using a 4 point mount machine up until a few months ago *sigh*
In anycase, I was using the 2piece string method, as usual (4 knots); however, I noticed when I strung even tensions on the crosses and the mains, the frame honestly did go rounder, than the original shape; I could not correct this problem until I took my second racquet, and increased the cross tension at 1lbs, and then took a third racquet of mine, un-strung and hadn't been strung at all; and compared it to both strung racquets (same model). The racquet with the cross tension variation was definitely more similar to the original shape of the un strung racquet, than the racquet with matching tensions, on the cross and main.
Just wondering if you can help me understand this observation.
I was stringing at 27lbs, with a thinner string.

[Kelvin]

oh yeah, I haven't been stringing for a very long time at all, probably one of the newest stringers on the forum.
Just wanted to know the thoughts of more experienced stringers.

[olli]

It's because when you start stringing the mains, there are no crosses stabilizing the frame and preventing, that it bends outwards. To bring back the shape of your racket near the "natural" condition, when it's unstrung, you now need to pull with higher tension, because the mains are allready working against it. I hope, I could help you with that.

[YY Fan]

Dear Kelvin,

Absolutely agree with you. In my opinion, 4-knots stringing method is better than 2-knots stringing method.


YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Cheung,

Thank you so much for raising this meaningful question to all of us.

According to my past stringing experience, whether the head frame can be restored to its original shape in a 2-knots stringing method, all depends on the quality and material of the head frame.

Let say if it is Yonex old aluminium rackets like Cab 8 and Cab 9, both of them are of aluminium alloy head frame. If the frame shape is distorted, it will be very difficult to restore it, that means in case of aluminium head frame, stringing quality is particularly important.

In the case of carbon or graphite materila head frame, as these materials are more elastic, the head frame has greater chance to restore to its original shape. It would be more ideal if the graphite or cabon material is hard, like that of Yonex Ti-10.


YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Kelvin,

Thank you for your question here.

I am sorry I haven't encountered your case. I am also using a 4-points stringing machine with 4-knots stringing method.

If you said you were using the same way on stringing as mine, but still find the racket frame round, I guess maybe the two protectors (wings) are not fixed well ! I have to use a screw-driver to fix the screws at both ends of the protectors (wings) as firmly as possible, before stringing. If the wings are not fixed firmly, the shape of the sides of the racket frame can not be kept well.

It is just my guess, please help to check next time if the wings are fixed firmly.


YY Fan

[YY Fan]

Dear Viver,

For your first question, may I know what type of stringing machines your coach and you are using ?

Besides, better stringing machine can provide more accurate tension on each string, that make the shape balance on both sides.

In addition, stringing experience should also be counted.

For your second question, you do find the shape of the frame by 2-knots stringing method distort a bit, it has already been one of the weakness of this method. Actually, if one like using 2-knots stringing method, he or she does can string the racket, it is only a question if the racket strung in this way will have "internal hurt". Apparently, it looks good but may be later, cracks will be resulted on the 2 and 10 o'clock positions. The bads will appear later on, not immediately, please bear this point.


YY Fan

[Kelvin]

Olli,
Yes, I understand that, what I found was basically contradicting what YY Fan had experienced, so i was just seeking explanation, of possible reasons why my findings would be different.

YY Fan,
Thank you for the suggestion.
However unfortunately, my machine's throat mount has since broken off.
It appears to be some sort of cast iron, rather than steel... in anycase, I will definitely make sure on my next machine the side mounts are secured properly, and to watch, and observe the frame.

So to make sure I understand.

On a machine with 4 or more point mount, it is possible to string both main and crosses at the same tension? and the shape of the head will remain in it's proper form due to the mounting system holding it there, correct?

But then I know another person with a 6 point mount; I noticed his frames end up too narrow.
Like in one case, with a weaker graphite frame... the length ( I happened to measure, as I had to do the duty of returning the frame to the individual from the stringer.) ended up being close to .9mm longer.
Usually this stringer, strings both sides at the same tensions.
Do you think this is an extreme problem, having to do with his side supports as well?
Thanks for any info any of you can offer.
-Kelvin

[viver]

YY Fan,
Thanks for your answer. I also believe he should be an expert stringer. He was a national level player and always strung his racquets himself. He coach helped me on various occasions to string my racquet. That was long time ago. Strings were either natural gut or Gosen Super Hy-sheep. My coach did not use any machine. He strung the racquets manually with some tools: awls, flat tweezers and an instrument that could expand used to hold the racquet head to prevent it bulging when doing the main strings. As for myself I have a 2 point stringing machine. I normally use YY BG 80 and BG85 at 24 lbs using the 4 knots method.

I always watch him string my racquets. When doing the mains, he pulls them 1 by 1 until the last 1. Before tying the knots he would go again to each string and checks the tension again. He plays them - like a musician is playing a guitar and listens to the sounds. If satisfied he'll tie the knots if not he'll make the necessary adjustments.

Racquets strung by him have a different feeling. When hitting the shuttle the sound is crisper. I had my racquets strung by different people but can't find the same feeling.

Recalling how my coach used to string, does it mean that each string (main strings) have its own tension? I mean, should each string have different tension since their lengths are different? Actually I tried to vary the tension when stringing the main ones (say 19 from centre 4, then increasing 1 for the next 4, and also the other way around, that is 21 in the center and then decreasing) but not much success. Is there a way to tell the optimum tension for a string?

[cooler]

viver, from your estimation, how long does it took your coach to string a racquet? don't worry, i'm not gonna debate on merit of hand vs machine stringing but rather trying to understand why and how a racquet strung by him play better than a machine strung one.

From our 'previous stringing debate', you didn't mention that your coach uses a 'contraption' to contain lateral expansion. That would alter my perception on your coach hand strung result. I thought he just uses awl, plyier, and basic hand tool. Also, did you ask your coach whether he varies his tension before you proceed this on your own?


2) your observation of another stringer "What he does is stretch the racquet head and then string at high tension 24 lbs or more and so far he has been successful"

stretch where? vertically or laterally? What if i ask this stringer for a 22lb racket, is he cheating me and the racket by putting 24lbs+ to conform the racket shape?

Personally i have seen 2 pt method done quite well under 24lbs but haven't seen higher tension cases yet. Also, it was just a brief observation and i don't have the luxury to measure the racquet dimension nor the string tension as claimed.

I also like to caution people saying that his/her strung racket looks almost the same like when it's unstrung. These observations are all subjective judgement and u don't really know the real dimension and what hidden stress in the racket. The racket can't speak out like i'm hurting at 2, 10 or 12 o'clock or i'm bloated at 9 and 3 o'clock.

[olli]

I'm the proud owner of a 6-point babolat stringing machine, but nevertheless string all my rackets with +2lbs on the crosses and they come out with an almost identical shape compared with an unstrung racket (and on very high tensions even still a little bit rounder).

[Kelvin]

Ok I'm a little confused now.
Olli, does this mean you've found similar findings to me, that you needed the 2lbs difference in order to maintain the frame's shape? or did you find the similar frame as YY Fan?
Did you happen to try out YY Fan's findings? (meaning have you tried the equal tension on both crosses, and mains? and come out with a frame as true to original form as previously mentioned?)
because I'm willing and open to suggestion, as I know the +2lbs difference on the crosses work, but have not noticed my racquets becoming more narrow.
However, I did notice that on my friend's string jobs.
In anycase, all the experience from you more experienced stringers helps!
So keep your feedback coming!

[Kelvin]

I didn't say there was equal pressure on the sides of the racquets, but as a stringer if you're going to do a proper job, you need to have a consistent tension across the string bed, and in some cases previously mentioned they are able to string the central strings tighter, something I have not learned to do yet.
If your string bed's tension is inconsistent, the frame will most likely show you especially in high tension string jobs 24lbs+
Also is you're serving customers, it is imperative that the frames shape be maintained, they weren't designed to look a certain way just because the racquet looks cool a certain way.
I believe that if the frame is warped, after the string job; there are a number of factors obviously leading to the frames condition.
One of them is the stringers consistency.
Also since YY Fan mentioned most higher end graphite racquets, can be strung back into proper form, with better stringing technique, this helps to further illustrate some of the poor string jobs being done out there.

I have been taught that a good test, to tell whether or not the string tension is consistent across the bed, is the plucking test.
Like guitar players tune their guitars during sound check, before a concert.
You pluck the strings going across, listening for general pitch to be the similar or the same going across the string bed.

if the strung racquet placed up to an unstrung racquet, appears to retain as close as possible a shape to the original, then they've a good job in maintaining the shape.

By the way YY Fan, and Olli, may I have your email addresses, I have some more specific questions, that will probably require more intricately described answers, and dont want to take up any more bandwidth on this topic here. (that's if you will allow me to contact you)
-Kelvin

[Kelvin]

IMO, to answer your question at the end, although I'm less experienced than you.
I was taught to string at the same tension across the bed, and as I mentioned previously, I have not mastered stringing the centre tighter than the outer strings, but then again, I dont really think I should be doing that, as it throws off the "consistent tension" I had been looking for in my racquet's stringbed.

With pre-stretching string, using a drop weight machine, I have noticed some strings will stretch more than others, I have noticed especially with bg80, and 85, they play spectacular in the 27-29lbs range.
But then in contrast, I would also like to mention I used my friend's machine to string up one of my racquets, at 28lbs last week using BG65, and well while practicing at a private club with their headcoach, I accidentally mishit the frame on my harder jumpsmashes (which I haven't done in a long time), and the frame buckled, and broke. :lol:

In anycase for finding optimal string tensions (isn't that a subjective opinion? because I'm not sure if anyone can be objective about this one topic), I think you may have to experiment.........

Or actually!!! Why dont all the stringers post their findings on what tensions they've found to be optimal, and also specify what criteria they judged the string under?
Essentially form a database, as I've seen some people do, as to what strings react like under different tension, and all that other good stuff, too numerous to mention, as I have to get back to work... just something to think about.
-Kelvin

[Kelvin]

Just to reiterate, and expand; also raise a few new questions... . o 0 (Kwun must be getting annoyed of reading my glutton of posts in the last few hours :lol: )
Isnt the idea of having the equal tension on the string bed, to allow for better repulsion of the shuttle off the string bed???


Now my other question, to the stringers, and equipment tinkerers (new word), like cooler. (not picking on you, but you're one of the few guys I know who does this, and I'm curious as to why you like your string bed like this...)
Why do some of you guys, and girls string a tighter tension in the central strings, and have the lower tension along the outer edges of your frame?


I mean aren't racquets designed the way they are, in order to "best distribute the forces of compression, and expansion" so that they can be strung with an even tension along the string bed? (I mean you dont see trapezoid, or octagon designs out there now do you? if you do please send me a link, as I'd really like to see what such a racquet looks like)


If we start stringing at different tensions in certain areas of the racquet, does this not create more stress on the frame, and cause the racquet to silently cry out, I'm hurting here at 12 o'clock, and bloated at 4 o'clock?

Just a few questions for all of you to help me understand a few things.
Thanks for your help.
-Kelvin

[Kelvin]

(sorry Kwun, for taking up so much space, I drew a pretty picture to make up for everything..... pretty ugly picture that is :p )
in my first paragraph on the last post...

"Isnt the idea of having the equal tension on the string bed, to allow for better repulsion of the shuttle off the string bed???"

By this I am referring to the design of racquets, and the resulting size of the string bed, to allow for more repulsion in the centre of the string bed.

I mean, I believe if you have too tight a tension on the string bed, it wont matter how strong you are; you will be playing with the a racquet that has the wooden paddle effect, correct? yes or no?
So doesn't increasing tension on the central strings, serve to defeat the design purpose, of having repulsion from the sweetspot?
I have heard from cooler (sorry, just using you as an example, not picking on you), that there is inconsistent performance in the string bed, especially on drop shots, as it is tough to precisely stroke the shuttle on the sweet spot, and you end up with 5 quadrants on the string bed, with different tension.

Let me try to illustrate the string bed.


<img src="http://www.geocities.com/armani_k/example.jpg">


If you can not see this pic, please copy and paste this link.

http://www.geocities.com/armani_k/example.jpg

Please excuse my artistic work here :lol:
The red strings indicate the strings which have the increased tension on them, the areas shaded in blue, are the areas of the string bed, which should technically have reduced string tension.
Now, according to what you guys have said, the areas i have marked in green, have a tension consistent to one another, but that should mean the centre (the area shaded in yellow), should have a higher overall tension correct?

Now with all this uneven tension, and pressure on the frame; I would think this way of stringing would serve more to harm the frame, would it not?
Again eluding back to my statement about us not seeing octagon shaped racquets... i'm thinking absolutely all the racquet shapes we see in all sports, are a result of proven research, and probably the best possible overall shape to construct a racquet in. Meaning the oval shape. Even Isometric racquets still have rounded bottom parts of the frame. Even Prince's design have rounded tops, despite having that massive Y joint, expanding the string bed at the bottom.

I have also heard from our friends in HK, that some of them do something similar with increasing the tension on the centre strings, however perhaps you have a different way of going about this technique.
If you understand my question, and have an answer, please to try to explain to me, as I'm pretty confused as why people would prefer the odd characteristics I described above.
-Kelvin

[viver]

Cooler,

1) It takes about 30/35 mins for him to string a racquet manually

2) I don't know the name of that tool. It's common if you string manually. It prevents the racquet to change 'form' when doing the main strings. It's set the tool on the inside of the head of the racquet, 1 end in the 'T' and other on 12 o'clock position. When I asked how he knew the tension was good, he replied that he had to test the string if it reached the optimum tension (stretch??). At that time I really did not go too much into stringing issues (stupid me) as I was lot more interested in badminton techniques and training methods.

3) Stretch vertically.

[AKFT]

The same tension for the main and cross should be applied to MP77 only, i think it's due to the head design of the racket. I've try to string the same tension(cross & main) for MP77, the shape is just perfect.

The CBG-100 on my MP-77 finally broke. I restrung the racket with BG-88ti at 24 lb mains and 23 lb crosses using an Eagnas ST-200. The racket head became a little more rounded at these tensions. This is the opposite of what happened to Frank in his original post. So may be Badminton_fan is right, and the MP-77 has to be strung with mains and crosses at the same tension. The strange thing is, the racket was originally strung by the Emmy Sports at 24M/23C and the head shape was OK. So may be it's my technique, may be it's machine-dependent. Would YY Fan or anybody else care to comment and enlighten me on this?

:confused:

[cooler]

It's 95% technique IMO.

For example:

flour, sugar, water, eggs, butter are required ingredients to make a pound cake.

A beginner can bake one from reading recipe and instructions from the web or cake box.

A pro chef can bake one without reading instruction and in less time too i might add.

Both use same ingredients, oven and utensils.

Your answer to your stringing question is same as asking which pound cake tastes better??

[kwun]

i think cooler has the best analogy to our "which racket is better?" question:

"which pound cake tastes better."

[cooler]

one more comparision.

If a beginner get to use a 5000 USD stringing machine and a pro stringer uses a 79 USD flimsy table top machine. The beginner may finish it faster. If that pro put all his stringing skills and take 1.5 hrs to do a racket, i would still prefer to let the pro do my rackets

[AKFT]

Good analogy. I'll keep experimenting. Thanks for your comments.

:)

[ants]

Do you have any ideas or recommendation on stringing a MP90 JP? Which one is better 2 knots or 4 knots? What does the pros strings their MP90 ? Anyone out there know?

[ayl]

G'day YY Fan and all contributors to this thread,

As someone who's just taken up restring rackets for the first time, the information you've provided here are invaluable. Top stuff!

I've seen many stringers in action and thought the process is fairly straight forward. Until I tired one myself last night.

Wish someone was with me 4am this morning, when I realised that I've laced one of the sting accidently to one of the machine's locknuts, after I've tied the knots off......

$#^@! :mad:

[kwun]

:D that happened to me before as well! but luckily, found out sooner than you did, but it still really sucks coz it takes ages to weave those strings.

i think that's just part of the learning cycle.

[Winex West Can]

Yeah, that could be a pain in the butt :D

I remembered one time that I had missed weaving one cross string and had tied off but had not snipped the excess string when I checked the stringing job. Luckily the missed weaving was pretty near the end so had to reclamp the strings again and untie and reweave.

[Winex West Can]

Originally posted by ants
Do you have any ideas or recommendation on stringing a MP90 JP? Which one is better 2 knots or 4 knots? What does the pros strings their MP90 ? Anyone out there know?

I think it is personal preference. I personally prefer one string (two knots) but Yonex is recommending two string method (four knots).

[AKFT]

I find stringing rackets very therapeutic. It's like occupational therapy for the elderly. It's very soothing to the soul, although not necessarily at 4 am!

:D


I am still a little confused about the mains and the crosses and whether to increase or decrease the tension. I think cooler is absolutely right. It's the technique, not the difference between 2, 4 and 6 point machines, side protection, drop weight or anything else.

:)

[Cheung]

I'd advise restringing all those cheaper racquets first which you don;t usually use. Then you won;t have to think at 4am if you are going to crack your prize possession from being fatigued.

[youngwind]

BEFORE
http://c0.images22.51img1.com/6000/youngwind/09f7aa82d69224c842fe73427c746e21.jpg
===========

my recommedation: Sweetzone Optimize

http://c7.images22.51img1.com/6000/youngwind/78b74d0d884037f1fd78c2f54d5b726a.jpg

[istringforyou]

Hi Youngwind, this is the common 'doctrine' from China which i have learned from the experts in China as well. This is exactly the rationale of the professional Gosen pattern which kinda forces you to conveniently lower the tension on each of the ending crosses to protect the frame and maximize the sweet spot. I did feel a very slight concentration of the sweetspot. Even when i string using Yonex 4 knots, i do keep this in mind. This is especially crucial at high tensions.

[blableblibloblu]

Lol@10yearsnecro

[Pete LSD]

Starting the cross at where the main and cross intersects near the head is very interesting. This is a variation of the 50-50 method.