Predictability and ability to change important for Doubles

After the defeat of the Malaysian pairs KKK-TBH and LWW-CTF, it is clear that being a champion is only good till the next tournament.

One the many things that can upset a doubles pair is the predictability in their play. When KKK-TBH won the Asian Games, the ALL-England and then the Swiss Open, their type of play was immediately studied by the coaches all over: they wanted to learn their style so that they can nullify it. One of the most striking features of KKK-TBH’s play is their attack: KKK is a master up the front and TBH is devastating at the back (his jump smash was lethal). The first thing to do to nullify them is obviously take away the smash opportunity of TBH and then force him to take the uncomfortable front shots rather than KKK. KKK’s smashes are not as great – so force him to take up the back role.

Now for many people who have watched their recent plays, they floundered when the opposition applied their new strategies. People start to wonder why TBH is not getting the big smashes and why KKK is taking the smashes. Also, the drives by the opposition are straight into KKK’s body or face – he is forced to react but often returning back into the net.

In other words, KKK-TBH have become predictable. The opposition coaches have nailed their play through the focused studies.

Now it is not true that Rexy is not aware of all these. It is just that changes take time to improvise and often times, KKK-TBH are so used to their old ‘plays’, they get confused. They are varying their strokes and mixing it up --- TBH need to sharpen his techniques up-front and KKK will have reposition himself to play back (and revving up his jump smashing). All these experiments do not come overnight – going back to the old strategies will not work as the opponents have read them and are able to take advantage of their plays. KKK-TBH, unfortunately, have to struggle to be at their best whilst they experiment and learn to play differently. It is hard to change because it is like starting a partnership again. This is why YKH is saying he is not worried and will aim at the Beijing Olympics coz he knows the ‘repair’ will have to take time. There is now a longer term game plan whilst the shorter term is not looking too bright. And I think this is prevalent in most teams – look at the Indonesians, Markis-Kido were doing so well and then they were read and nullified (now I see a new revival with new style of play, maybe they are beginning to get it right again).

Now with Tan Fook-Wan Wah, the two have been around for a long time. Somehow, the two ‘foxes’ are able to vary their plays better, and when they get it right on the day, they play extremely well (but other times, they are just woeful). It will take too long to teach them any new ‘plays’ – all Rexy would do is to advise them to move faster or play certain shots because he knows it will be too hard to get them to change – in any case, as I said, the two are wily and can change quite well sometimes. So expect brilliance and also disappointments from them. It is as best as you can get from them. Their predictability is not so pronounced as they both can play front and back, unlike KKK-TBH. Of course, they will change accordingly but if they get it wrong, it will be “omg, they have lost again!”.

Kinda similar to Fu Haifeng/Cai Yun when they first started out. Fu is lethal with his smashes at the back of the court, while Cai Yun with his net play. After their opponents figure out how to play against them, Fu/Cai begin to vary their tactic and have improved their defense a lot lately (esp this year).

KKK/TBH have tasted success early in their career, which can make them lose directions, esp when they suffer losses after losses in the later half of this year. I agree that what is needed is a change in their playing style and most importantly improve their defense. Perhaps a break from international tourneys is good for them so that Rexy can figure out what modification he needs to make (esp for TBH).

U mentioned Kido/Hendra in your post. Indeed, when they play against top pairs recently, they have slightly changed their tactic from a pure all-out attack. Notice how they totally outplayed Jung/Lee in the WC Final with less smash winners and more net winners. Of course, Kido is the main man when it come to the big smashes, but, Hendra has certainly cut down on his unforced errors in front of the net.

However, when playing against lesser opponents, there is no need to vary the tactics. Just hurl the attacks at them and they will wilt eventually :p Examples: in yesterday's match against Sudket/Phattapol, their smash winners account for a whooping 27 points in the 2 sets they won. However, when playing against their compatriot AG/Joko, their smashes account for only 19 pts in the 2 sets they won vs 9 net winners.

Contrast this with KKK/TBH vs Luluk/Alvent, with only 1 net winners and 32 smash winners and KKK/TBH vs TBS/OSH, with only 5 net winners and 26 smash winners.

They better buck up. Well at least we still have time to improve before the Olympics.

U mentioned Kido/Hendra in your post. Indeed, when they play against top pairs recently, they have slightly changed their tactic from a pure all-out attack. Notice how they totally outplayed Jung/Lee in the WC Final with less smash winners and more net winners. Of course, Kido is the main man when it come to the big smashes, but, Hendra has certainly cut down on his unforced errors in front of the net.

However, when playing against lesser opponents, there is no need to vary the tactics. Just hurl the attacks at them and they will wilt eventually :p Examples: in yesterday's match against Sudket/Phattapol, their smash winners account for a whooping 27 points in the 2 sets they won. However, when playing against their compatriot AG/Joko, their smashes account for only 19 pts in the 2 sets they won vs 9 net winners.

Good analysis --- definitely doubles pairs need to be able to vary their tactics if they want to keep winning.

They better buck up. Well at least we still have time to improve before the Olympics.


A lot of work for them....I just feel things have changed and KKK-TBH are no longer at the top. If they can change fast, then they can still come back. It is like technology today of which I am involved with : if one does not change with the technology then technology would leave you behind.

I think the problem of unpredictability is due to the scoring system. That has a bigger effect than the inconsistency of certain players.

Current Malaysia players in my opinion are good players but not tough in the mind. The moment they win a tournament their heads are in the cloud and think they are king of the world. The situation is made worse by interference from BAM management who lavish them with rewards before the job is done. KKK-TBH has big potential but unless they can forcus and listen to Rexy they will have not chance. Before Rexy, Malaysia has good coach such as Pak Joo Bong and even he was frustrated by the intereference on the BAM management. This may sound harsh but it is reality in Malaysia.

Gordo, it wasn't just Professor Park. Before him, there was Morten Frost Hansen. And being European (outspoken), he made his displeasure known. It was very big news then, the battle between Chief Coach and the rest of BAM.

They better buck up. Well at least we still have time to improve before the Olympics.

To win that Olympic Gold takes more than those flashy bracelets and prima donna attitude.

Olympic gold impossible. Bronze maybe can.

Back to the drawing board for Rexy. Perhaps can try mixing up the players again to differ the style a little to catch the opponents off guard. Motivates new pairing as well. ;)

Current Malaysia players in my opinion are good players but not tough in the mind. The moment they win a tournament their heads are in the cloud and think they are king of the world. The situation is made worse by interference from BAM management who lavish them with rewards before the job is done. KKK-TBH has big potential but unless they can forcus and listen to Rexy they will have not chance. Before Rexy, Malaysia has good coach such as Pak Joo Bong and even he was frustrated by the intereference on the BAM management. This may sound harsh but it is reality in Malaysia.

Spot on!!!!

Its a Malaysian disease which many refused to admit and prefer to hope against all hopes. We get over excited when we win the Philippines Open, and when it comes to the real crunch in the WC, we fell flat. KKK/TBH, after the All England has lost it. They just dont have it in them to be true champions like Rexy/Ricky, LYB/TBY, Cai/Fu etc.

Morten Frost, like Park Joo Bong have also packed it in because they just cannot train Msian shuttlers who are used to be pampered etc. And it wont be long before we see Rexy saying goodbye as well.

Back to the drawing board for Rexy. Perhaps can try mixing up the players again to differ the style a little to catch the opponents off guard. Motivates new pairing as well. ;)

The drawing board is looking a bit worn out.

Rexy can train, whip, mix and motivate his shuttlers till the cows comes home, he will still not achieve anything. Better for him to leave Msia for England/Korea/Denmark or even USA as the set up there is more professional.

The drawing board is looking a bit worn out.

Rexy can train, whip, mix and motivate his shuttlers till the cows comes home, he will still not achieve anything. Better for him to leave Msia for England/Korea/Denmark or even USA as the set up there is more professional.

If that's the situation, it'll be really sad....

Have we the Malaysians not learned from past mistakes ? Huh ? BAM ?:rolleyes:

If that's the situation, it'll be really sad....

Have we the Malaysians not learned from past mistakes ? Huh ? BAM ?:rolleyes:

Settle down, it is only a supposition - never going to happen.

SOME of MAS supporters have started to blame Rexy for early exit of all MD pairs. They believe the MAS MD players will win all the time if under the charge of Rexy. It's really unfair to Rexy. I dunno how they will treat Misbun if LCW lose on tomorrow???

Settle down, it is only a supposition - never going to happen.

Tell that to Park Joo Bong and Morten Frost. Both legends, both got fed up with the Msian mentality thingy.

Tell that to Park Joo Bong and Morten Frost. Both legends, both got fed up with the Msian mentality thingy.

Well i have to agree to a certain extend.

LEE TS shows the truth of BAM really got a poor management by winning two titles in a row.. Although its a smaller tournaments. I really doubts if the TOP MAS players able to win it there !
IMHO, players could not be blame by "PAMPERING", who is breastfeeding them at the first place? Of coz the BA rite...

It is like your parents give you all facilities you want when you go to college/University...good computer, nice car, allowance,etc.....your success depends on yourself....your parent can guide you to the right direction..at the end ..you choose your way....so we can not blame all coaches all the time....

Predictability and ability to change important for Doubles

After the defeat of the Malaysian pairs KKK-TBH and LWW-CTF, it is clear that being a champion is only good till the next tournament.
..esp. for KKK & TBH, but they're young, so give them more time & be patient:cool:...Take a look at INA's MD pair of Kido & Setiawan. How long did they have to wait before finally winning & standing @ the top of the podium in the recent WC??..I'm sure it's longer than KKK's & TBH's last victory, no??..;)

..esp. for KKK & TBH, but they're young, so give them more time & be patient:cool:...Take a look at INA's MD pair of Kido & Setiawan. How long did they have to wait before finally winning & standing @ the top of the podium in the recent WC??..I'm sure it's longer than KKK's & TBH's last victory, no??..;)
KKK/TBH will be back...dont bash them yet.....they will come back as stronger pairs....

..esp. for KKK & TBH, but they're young, so give them more time & be patient:cool:...Take a look at INA's MD pair of Kido & Setiawan. How long did they have to wait before finally winning & standing @ the top of the podium in the recent WC??..I'm sure it's longer than KKK's & TBH's last victory, no??..;)

Glad you got the point. ;)

..esp. for KKK & TBH, but they're young, so give them more time & be patient:cool:...Take a look at INA's MD pair of Kido & Setiawan. How long did they have to wait before finally winning & standing @ the top of the podium in the recent WC??..I'm sure it's longer than KKK's & TBH's last victory, no??..;)

ya...kido/setiawan need 4 years to be wc champ :D
if i'm not wrong,
markis/kido's first appearance in Grand prix tournament was in I0 2003.. they was defeated by zheng bo/zhang yang in the final.

It is like your parents give you all facilities you want when you go to college/University...good computer, nice car, allowance,etc.....your success depends on yourself....your parent can guide you to the right direction..at the end ..you choose your way....so we can not blame all coaches all the time....
You can if by providing all the support, they also make all the decisions all the time.That's how some parents mess up their children's lives. They also decide what their children should study and work for a living.
Similarly, coaches who don't ask for input from players like what tournaments they want to go for or skip, can be blamed.If players are given a choice and made a decision themselves, then they are committed to deliver....There are other decisions players should be involved. The point is: It helps players think better at crunch time and also to take responsibility for their choice.

asking rexy to quit is ridiculous. to me, rexy is great! KKK/TBH lost! So what? You can't win all the time. CY/FHF also lost, LYD/JJS also lost, LWW/CTF also lost, JE/MLH also lost. Why not ask those respective coach to quit as well!!!!????

Back to XBall initial comment, i somehow elect to disagree.

i think TBH is "not bad" at the front and KKK is also "not bad" at the rear. Yes, the best configuration is still TBH at the back and KKK at the front.

I haven seen the JO match where they lost to Luluk/Alven but i am sure they lost because Luluk/Alven played better and not because they were able to pin KKK at the back etc etc.

Or maybe KKK/TBH just lost because they were too eager!

I fink TBS can be possibly the future of MAS MD, it all depends on who will he to partner with.. The combination of TBS/OSH doesn't seem really works..
It will not be a wise move to separate the KKK/TBH partnership, they both just playing in the competition for only one year.. It is too early to judge they were failed..

It is like your parents give you all facilities you want when you go to college/University...good computer, nice car, allowance,etc.....your success depends on yourself....your parent can guide you to the right direction..at the end ..you choose your way....so we can not blame all coaches all the time....

By having being given so much without having the need to strive for it, one can be a spoilt brat. You wont have the hunger and tend to develop the wrong attitude.

KKK/TBH will be back...dont bash them yet.....they will come back as stronger pairs....

Well they better come back soon cos' the Olympics is less than a year away.

... but I am pretty sure the typical Msian mentality will again come into play should they fall flat in Beijing. We will take out our usual broken violin and play that familar "dont bash them, they are still young and will be stronger in the future" tune

there is no such thing as total domination in a sports... even Roger Federer loses sometimes... just tat there is a day where they will lose... it may consist of many factors... from what we are looking now is their tactics, strengths, weaknesses.. but form they are currently in takes in consideration too.. it might just not be their day.. Feng Yun losing in an early stage isn't something that happens always.. maybe after WC, they trained less which made their mentality towards tournaments is lower than usual.. they are not built up gearing up for JO.. their main priority was WC.. and when it was over, they have been to relaxed in training unlike what they did gearing for WC... just wait and see in bigger tournaments when they start to shine n stand on the podiums again... :D

Well they better come back soon cos' the Olympics is less than a year away.

... but I am pretty sure the typical Msian mentality will again come into play should they fall flat in Beijing. We will take out our usual broken violin and play that familar "dont bash them, they are still young and will be stronger in the future" tune

don rule them out just yet... ppl did say that they wont win the AE this year and in which they did.. and when ppl were putting toooo much hope and pressure on them for WC, they fell miserably flat... just go with the flow.... :D they might be able to achieve a breakthrough.. :D

there is no such thing as total domination in a sports... even Roger Federer loses sometimes... just tat there is a day where they will lose... it may consist of many factors... from what we are looking now is their tactics, strengths, weaknesses.. but form they are currently in takes in consideration too.. it might just not be their day.. Feng Yun losing in an early stage isn't something that happens always.. maybe after WC, they trained less which made their mentality towards tournaments is lower than usual.. they are not built up gearing up for JO.. their main priority was WC.. and when it was over, they have been to relaxed in training unlike what they did gearing for WC... just wait and see in bigger tournaments when they start to shine n stand on the podiums again... :D

Roger Federer has 12 Grand Slam titles todate since 2003. And he won the US Open and Wimbledon 4 & 5 times in a row, dude. No such thingy as total domination? :rolleyes:

I can list down a few others as well, if you want.

don rule them out just yet... ppl did say that they wont win the AE this year and in which they did.. and when ppl were putting toooo much hope and pressure on them for WC, they fell miserably flat... just go with the flow.... :D they might be able to achieve a breakthrough.. :D

I am sorry but their AE win is looking more like a flash in a pan thing, just like Hafiz Hashim.

Well, I hope I am proven wrong and I will happily eat humble pie. But I am a realist and in Malaysia, I know the "Malaysia Boleh" culture too well. For example, look at our football. In the Asian Cup we were hammered left and right. And when we won the Merdeka tournament last month beating 'mighty' Myanmar, suddenly our football standards are on the up again. We like to humour ourselves with false pretense in Malaysia.