Is this the beginning of the end of CHN's domination?? :rolleyes:

Just because they failed to win the MS and WS title in one tournament?

I bet LYB and the China Olympic Council would be laughing their guts out when they stand on the podium with gold medals next year in Beijing.

As far as i know CHN team still dominate on this tournament with 2 winner and 2 runner-up.

Is this the beginning of the end of CHN's domination?? :rolleyes:

a bit pre-mature prediction, imho.

the Chinese team is very smart. they have gone through these many times before, Camilla Martin in WS, Ra/Lee in WD, Gade in MS, they will either analyze their new opponent to every minute detail to find their weaknesses and/or strengthen their training program. the result is then a stronger and smarter team that continued to play the best badminton in the world.

i will wait and see what they will do in the next few months.

a bit pre-mature prediction, imho.

the Chinese team is very smart. they have gone through these many times before, Camilla Martin in WS, Ra/Lee in WD, Gade in MS, they will either analyze their new opponent to every minute detail to find their weaknesses and/or strengthen their training program. the result is then a stronger and smarter team that continued to play the best badminton in the world.

i will wait and see what they will do in the next few months.

As they say : Easy Come Easy Go. What does it matter if it is one game - next game China might win it back (not that I want to see that but I have to face reality). But it is more exciting if other countries win too. Nevertheless, I want LCW to continue winning.:D

Tine Rasmussen beat XieXingfang (World champion for 2 times)
Lu Lan
Zhang Ning (World champion + Olympic champion)
Jang Yanjiao (Asian Champion)
Xu Huaiwen (European Champion)

So Tine is the world champion + olympic champion + european champion = the ultimate champion.

Camilla only beat 3 chinese players to win her All england

But tine beat 5 chinese players and they are the best of the best.

History is created again after the collapse of chinese ladies in WD china masters

Sorry not happening...LYB is gonna train his crew even harder...then we'll see them laughing their asses off during next year's olympics at people who thought this was their end

So...because she managed to beat them....once, she also manages to win the Olympics and World Championships AND European championships, without actually winning the actual championships? Buddy, she won the Japan Open, congrats to her for doing so, but until she beats them CONSISTANTLY and actually wins those titles, then you can start calling her "the ultimate champion of champions who does not have to compete in a tournament to win the title of being champion.....champion". Some fans just get way too excited and lose all their logic and credibility in one night.

China's run would not end here. i think they still we go from strength to strength. they will continue to exert their dominance and power.

Tine Rasmussen beat XieXingfang (World champion for 2 times)
Lu Lan
Zhang Ning (World champion + Olympic champion)
Jang Yanjiao (Asian Champion)
Xu Huaiwen (European Champion)

So Tine is the world champion + olympic champion + european champion = the ultimate champion.

Camilla only beat 3 chinese players to win her All england

But tine beat 5 chinese players and they are the best of the best.

History is created again after the collapse of chinese ladies in WD china masters

First of all lose the title. It's horrible.

Tine did win the title, and it's nice to see that Denmark and now on par with the Chinese. But that doesn't means she's ultimate. It's just like how everybody thought Zhang Ning was ultimate. And frankly I still think she is at 32, is it?

Lastly, Tine is only WS champion in Japan open. Beating the world's top in the Japan doesn't mean it'll be the same as winning all those other titles. Those are something to earned like all the others.

Overall Good Job Tine, But I hope more hot Denmark players, like Camilla, come on to the scene XD.

I feel that hard work is hard work. If all the other players in the world, exert the same mental, physical, and tactical training, then perhaps we'll see a mix of countries in the top 5

Sorry not happening...LYB is gonna train his crew even harder...then we'll see them laughing their asses off during next year's olympics at people who thought this was their end

But the 'people' you referred to will have their laughs first, yeah ?:D

bcl, chen jin and chen yu will have to step up their pace. LYB can't rely on LD all the time. Bcl, cj and cy will have to fight it out to get to play in 08 OG.

The ships barely sank, to be honest, just docked for repairs due to torn sails and creaky masts.

i think this is premature really. after all, China have done worse in tournaments. it's not like they'll win all the medals every time. i think the other nations, like Mas, Indo and especially Tine did awesome. but will they be able to repeat these feats? one tournament is not enough. after all, you would base your conclusion for a research on just a single trail. you'd do it several times.

It may be the end yet. But LYB may need to start worry. Look the the recent tourments.

MS - other than LD, who else? CJ does not prove himself as LD's successor yet.
WS - ZN, XXF no longer plays in every tournament final. And they even started losing in early rounds. ZL won WC, but she has been inconsistent.
MD - Tan/Koo and MD from INA seem to able to find ways beat Cai/Fu.
WD - Still dominate, but othen than Zhang Yawen, the rest are not young any more.
XD - Gao/Bo and Widianto/Natsir are 50/50.

As they say : Easy Come Easy Go. What does it matter if it is one game - next game China might win it back (not that I want to see that but I have to face reality). But it is more exciting if other countries win too. Nevertheless, I want LCW to continue winning.:D

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D........

tine will be analysed and LYB & staff will an antidote ready soon enough.

MD - Tan/Koo and MD from INA seem to able to find ways beat Cai/Fu.

Add CTF/LWW (frequently) into that list and LYB really should be sweating.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D........

Touche........:D:D:D:D

Too early to say.....it is only one tournament that all chinese players are beaten....CHN still has many good WS...gotta wait and see.....

The ships barely sank, to be honest, just docked for repairs due to torn sails and creaky masts.

Nice way of putting it.^^

As a european I`m very happy Tine won the JO, but like it has been said before, let's not get too euphoric ;)
It's a great achievement that she bet all those amazing players but that doesn't make her ultimate champion, although you probably weren't that serious ;)

The Armada was shot down by the Seventh Fleet of the world. Will china send another Armada ?

uhhhhhhh, honestly, Tine Rasmussen won ONE tournament.
so she trained harder than anyone else in the tournament for this tournament.
she proved to be fitter and tougher than anyone else in her side of the draw to win the tournament.

maybe if she played someone else in round 1 or round 2, she may have lost? who knows.

until she beats the chinese WS players time and time again, she isn't going to be called anything other than "the winner of the japanese open".

chinese players go unbeaten for months on end and they get bashed.
players from other countries win ONE tournament, and they get praised?

grow up.

it'd be awesome to see Rasmussen in the later stages of every future tournament, but seriously, until she starts repeating this feats in the next few tournaments, she'll be forgotten in a couple months.

if this coming week, she was forced to play the same players again, she'd probably lose atleast half. and i bet a lot of people here would agree.

It may be the end yet. But LYB may need to start worry. Look the the recent tourments.

MS - other than LD, who else? CJ does not prove himself as LD's successor yet.
WS - ZN, XXF no longer plays in every tournament final. And they even started losing in early rounds. ZL won WC, but she has been inconsistent.
MD - Tan/Koo and MD from INA seem to able to find ways beat Cai/Fu.
WD - Still dominate, but othen than Zhang Yawen, the rest are not young any more.
XD - Gao/Bo and Widianto/Natsir are 50/50.

good analysis.....;)

uhhhhhhh, honestly, Tine Rasmussen won ONE tournament.
so she trained harder than anyone else in the tournament for this tournament.
she proved to be fitter and tougher than anyone else in her side of the draw to win the tournament.

maybe if she played someone else in round 1 or round 2, she may have lost? who knows.

until she beats the chinese WS players time and time again, she isn't going to be called anything other than "the winner of the japanese open".

chinese players go unbeaten for months on end and they get bashed.
players from other countries win ONE tournament, and they get praised?

grow up.
What's with you talking sense and all?

C'mon, you'd at least allow Tine and her supporters a day of jubilee, heya?

It may be the end yet. But LYB may need to start worry. Look the the recent tourments.

MS - other than LD, who else? CJ does not prove himself as LD's successor yet.
WS - ZN, XXF no longer plays in every tournament final. And they even started losing in early rounds. ZL won WC, but she has been inconsistent.
MD - Tan/Koo and MD from INA seem to able to find ways beat Cai/Fu.
WD - Still dominate, but othen than Zhang Yawen, the rest are not young any more.
XD - Gao/Bo and Widianto/Natsir are 50/50.

If u think China's team is starting to get unhealthy...look at other national teams...MAS, INA, DEN etc..

MAS:
MS- Besides Chong Wei, no one else reliable at all.
MD- KKK/Tbh are very predictable nowadays & are finding it tough to make a comeback & the old guns CTF/LWW are getting older & older.
WS, WD & XD- nothing much to talk about.

INA:
MS- Taufik doesn't dominate world badminton nowadays, rather, he puts up fights but loses most of the time...there doesn't seem to be a reliable succesor to him...
MD- Kido-Setiawan are their most reliable nowadays but still, gone are the days of Indonesian MD domination.
WD- Once in a blue moon the Indonesian girls can spring up a surprise but thats on a bad China day.
XD- This is probably their most consistent department, but still 50-50 with the Chinese pair.
WS- irelevent

DEN:
MS- Peter Gade doesn't win anymore, he just puts up some resistance...there's no reliable successor to him.
MD- Danish pairs are getting old and lame...young guns not up to expectations.
WS- Tine's win might just be a one off
XD & WD- irelevent

Conclusion:
China still looks to dominate for many years to come & they have successors to take over the helms of their current squad.

What's with you talking sense and all?

C'mon, you'd at least allow Tine and her supporters a day of jubilee, heya?

a day of celebrations is fine.
but you know, they'd probably go drinking and partying for days, while everyone else has gone back to their regular regimens of 8-10 hours of training a day. :p

uhhhhhhh, honestly, Tine Rasmussen won ONE tournament.
so she trained harder than anyone else in the tournament for this tournament.
she proved to be fitter and tougher than anyone else in her side of the draw to win the tournament.

maybe if she played someone else in round 1 or round 2, she may have lost? who knows.

until she beats the chinese WS players time and time again, she isn't going to be called anything other than "the winner of the japanese open".

chinese players go unbeaten for months on end and they get bashed.
players from other countries win ONE tournament, and they get praised?

grow up.

it'd be awesome to see Rasmussen in the later stages of every future tournament, but seriously, if you look at her history, her fitness is a liability. it seems to me that she is rather injury prone...

True, but the way she won suggests there is more to come. We are growing up all the time when we realise another champion is here - that something has changed and that change might be here for a while. Don't feel too bad. You might be right but TINE has won handsomely today and I think if she keeps it up, the Chinese will feel the pain.

True, but the way she won suggests there is more to come. We are growing up all the time when we realise another champion is here - that something has changed and that change might be here for a while. Don't feel too bad. You might be right but TINE has won handsomely today and I think if she keeps it up, the Chinese will feel the pain.

the problem is that i don't want to be right.
i want to see other countries in the mix, fighting for the win all the time.
when i say fighting for the win, i want both the teams to be playing their best, exhibiting good badminton.
i don't count the times when one lower quality player wins because the higher quality player suffers a bad day.
i'm a canadian. i may be chinese, but i don't care so much if chinese domination continues. i want to see other countries improving their quality of badminton programs to match the chinese, not for the chinese to relax. but rather, everyone to improve...
Tine Rasmussen's victory makes me as excited as India's MS success back in the world championships. but i'll stay realistic...

China's future lies on:
MS- Chen Jin (well...he's not that superior like Lin Dan but he's still a class above all the other players from his generation from other countries.)
MD- Xie Zhongbo-Guo Zhengdong looks like they can take over or rather (in addition to CY-FHF) be a pair to be respected.
WS- Zhu Lin, Lu Lan are likely to be China's front runners...they have a pool of young girls waiting to break in too!
WD- Well...these girls are getting older but there will still be sometime b4 they are completely replaced by some juniors.
XD- ZYW-XXB are becoming a force to reckon with

tine will be analysed and LYB & staff will an antidote ready soon enough.
Well, the antidote might just be the sacking of Li Yongbo. :rolleyes:

Well, the antidote might just be the sacking of Li Yongbo. :rolleyes:Which would be overly harsh (and dumb) considering his track record with the team - it wasn't him who failed to beat LCW or Tine Rasmussen, really.

why dont every other nation gang up and have CHN's top players well analysed? how bout that?? :p:p:p

With a great deal of help from video and with the use of analytical software, badminton associations across Asia are now busy analyzing the playing styles of the world's leading players... the target is the box of Olympic Gold Medals in 2008. :)

Already, the playing styles of Lin Dan, Peter Gade, Taufik Hidayat are Cai & Fu among the most heavily analysed in badminton.

In fact, such software allows a fair bit of prediction... for instance, it shows that, 8 times out of 10, Lin Dan delivers a cross-court smash if the shuttle is lifted to his forehand back-corner when he is moving backwards. :eek:

A few teams even have fulltime assistant coaches doing little apart from this kind of sophisticated video-based performance analysis. England and Malaysia are among the heavy users (and not just for badminton). :p

I bet Lee Chong Wei's resurgence owes much to this software. ;)

why dont every other nation gang up and have CHN's top players well analysed? how bout that?? :p:p:p

they probably do. just no one's good enough to consistently produce the goods to beat the Chinese everytime

CHN will bounce back very soon, for sure...

yeah just think its not a good come back after the world champs.. they'll bounce back 4 sure!!

i think chn jz too happy for their win in WC..
so no time to train..

Don't think so, Japan SS is the poorest SS result for CHN squad thus far. Let's see their performance in next 4 SS!

I don't think Chinese on the way to downhill.. they got one champion in XD & keeps their tradition power in WD.. With at least one representative in WS... Nothing to be shamed for with this kinda results... At least better than MAS & KOREAN ....

Is this the beginning of the end of CHN's domination?? :rolleyes:

lol one tournament and you think that chinas domination has ended? be realistic now

it's just a temporary setback for China. perhaps the results from the WC 07 and Japan Open 07 will send them clear signals to analyze and evaluate their present programs. it's a matter of "smoothing rough edges" as the saying goes. if you will check further, (still) China has a "deeper" bench compared to other teams. i'm sure they'll get their old form back.

it's just a temporary setback for China...

I didn't know that 'a temporary setback' meant 'a pounding, thrashing, pasting and annihilation rolled into one' :p

I didn't know that 'a temporary setback' meant 'a pounding, thrashing, pasting and annihilation rolled into one' :p

harharhar yes you are correct since i too get bored when china gets most, if not all, of the gold medals home. i'm happy to see the old warriors like taufik, wijaya and gunawan, chandra and hadiyanto gave very good performance :):):)

CHN has won/dominated umteenth times, one 'minor' setback and CHN cannot dominate??....LCW played very well and so deserving to be champion and I cannot be more happy for him....but to expect LCW to win over CJ, LD and TH next time and next time again is a big expectation and if LCW does not suceed next time, fans are going to bash him, as usual....likewise LD is not going to lose often either...CHN domination over? Not even close...take a look at their lineup and upcoming players...even if LCW and TH continue to play so fantastically next time, after they are done in next year or the year after, who is there left to challenge the CHN upcoming players? CJ may seem to have problem with his game lately, but he is so young and after the stars are retired, he is still going to be around...So enjoy this win for both LCW and TH, but plz do not be so arrogant to thrash CHN cos' they will be back...for sure!

DEN:
MS- Peter Gade doesn't win anymore, he just puts up some resistance...there's no reliable successor to him.
MD- Danish pairs are getting old and lame...young guns not up to expectations.
WS- Tine's win might just be a one off
XD & WD- irelevent

Conclusion:
China still looks to dominate for many years to come & they have successors to take over the helms of their current squad.

denmark's XD pair, Laybourn/Rytter Juhl is no pushover :)

China's future lies on:
MD- Xie Zhongbo-Guo Zhengdong looks like they can take over or rather (in addition to CY-FHF) be a pair to be respected.
XD- ZYW-XXB are becoming a force to reckon with

seriously, i dont think XZB and GZD will be a star in the coming years. they're far off their seniors CY/FHF, malaysia's, indonesia's, korea's and england's MD pairs.

china is really lacking MD specialist. i wonder why, since they have such a huge population :o

and for XD, yes, ZYW is good, but XZB (it should be XZB :rolleyes:) isn't very consistant.

tine will be analysed and LYB & staff will an antidote ready soon enough.

a poison you mean :D

Tine Rasmussen beat XieXingfang (World champion for 2 times)
Lu Lan
Zhang Ning (World champion + Olympic champion)
Jang Yanjiao (Asian Champion)
Xu Huaiwen (European Champion)

So Tine is the world champion + olympic champion + european champion = the ultimate champion.

Camilla only beat 3 chinese players to win her All england

But tine beat 5 chinese players and they are the best of the best.

History is created again after the collapse of chinese ladies in WD china masters

this is a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY bad analysis.
its like saying ronald susilo beat lin dan (world ranking #1) in OG2004, lin dan beat lee chong wei (malaysia open 2007 MS champ) at china open 2007, lee chong wei beat taufik hidayat (OG2004 MS, WC2005 MS champ, Asian Games champ) at china open this year, ...[i cant continue because i cant think of taufik beating any title holders recently except chen hong, singapore open 2003 which was long time ago :p]

and no, that does not make ronald susilo world ranking #1 + MO champ + OG champ + WC champ + Asian Games champ = ultimate champ...

you're just biased :p

a bit pre-mature prediction, imho.

the Chinese team is very smart. they have gone through these many times before, Camilla Martin in WS, Ra/Lee in WD, Gade in MS, they will either analyze their new opponent to every minute detail to find their weaknesses and/or strengthen their training program. the result is then a stronger and smarter team that continued to play the best badminton in the world.

i will wait and see what they will do in the next few months.

Sounds like bacteria and antibiotics:p

China's future lies on:
MS- Chen Jin (well...he's not that superior like Lin Dan but he's still a class above all the other players from his generation from other countries.)
MD- Xie Zhongbo-Guo Zhengdong looks like they can take over or rather (in addition to CY-FHF) be a pair to be respected.
WS- Zhu Lin, Lu Lan are likely to be China's front runners...they have a pool of young girls waiting to break in too!
WD- Well...these girls are getting older but there will still be sometime b4 they are completely replaced by some juniors.
XD- ZYW-XXB are becoming a force to reckon with

I like the way you analyze it
N china still has JYJ,Yihan,wang lin and other young guns is Ws
In MX they have He HB/Yu Y,both are still young

Xie Zhongbo/Zhang Yawen are getting stagnant in the past year, with no title to show for since the China Open in Oct 2006.

He Hanbin/Yu Yang are improving with their collections of titles this year and they are the ones whom we should keep an eye on :cool:

As for MD, Guo Zhendong/Xie Zhongbo have been around for the past 2-3 years and they still find it hard to break the top 10. However, Shen Ye/He Hanbin probably is the pair that probably will rise. They just need experience and time.

In WD, Pan Pan/Tian Qing is probably the one that we should look out for.

There are a bunch of junior pairs like Li Tian/Ma Jin (XD), Ma Jin/Wang Xiaoli (WD) that haven proven themselves in the junior competitions. We shall see them in the next 2-3 years.

Pan Pan?

http://hometown.aol.com/kkid110/images/pan,%20giru,%20and%20goku.jpg

oh shucks, another one of these threads :rolleyes:. when will they end :confused:

CHN will sweep in HKO and CO, that's for sure.

there's one thing u guys have to understand...it's the never-ending enormous talent pool which makes China so scary. Other countries still have a lot to catch up on that

Nowhere close to the end of domination yet, winning 2 Gold is still a great achievement for the Chinese team that many countries can only dream of.

Good job to LCW and Tine though.

there's one thing u guys have to understand...it's the never-ending enormous talent pool which makes China so scary. Other countries still have a lot to catch up on that

that's quite true. the events of today (Japan SS 07) showcased the "old warriors" of Indonesia. sooner or later, they will have to go. "new and younger pool of talent" should be infused so that the winning heritage of any team will go on.

As long as every event becomes more competitive, I am all for it! China will still be dominating but just to a lesser degree. Who can challenge the WD from China?

When I saw BCL giving tips to LD, and LD giving tips to XXF, It seems that China is not giving their 100%, would they do that in the olympic ?. Anyway, a win is a win, congratulations to the winners.

But the 'people' you referred to will have their laughs first, yeah ?:D
heh Xball, its ok they can laugh (people like you) but its only going to be tears on your face when your whole national team gets wiped off the face of the planet in next year's olympics

With a great deal of help from video and with the use of analytical software, badminton associations across Asia are now busy analyzing the playing styles of the world's leading players... the target is the box of Olympic Gold Medals in 2008. :)

Already, the playing styles of Lin Dan, Peter Gade, Taufik Hidayat are Cai & Fu among the most heavily analysed in badminton.

In fact, such software allows a fair bit of prediction... for instance, it shows that, 8 times out of 10, Lin Dan delivers a cross-court smash if the shuttle is lifted to his forehand back-corner when he is moving backwards. :eek:

A few teams even have fulltime assistant coaches doing little apart from this kind of sophisticated video-based performance analysis. England and Malaysia are among the heavy users (and not just for badminton). :p

I bet Lee Chong Wei's resurgence owes much to this software. ;)\

And with LCW's fluky win he will now be analyzed to death then he will fall into a bottomless pit of defeat.

heh Xball, its ok they can laugh (people like you) but its only going to be tears on your face when your whole national team gets wiped off the face of the planet in next year's olympics

And with LCW's fluky win he will now be analyzed to death then he will fall into a bottomless pit of defeat.
You're one angry fella. :confused:

And with LCW's fluky win he will now be analyzed to death then he will fall into a bottomless pit of defeat.[/quote]

He's one angry fella alrite. If LCW wins another tournament, he may just burst an artery........:D:D
Take it easy man.

Guys its a game, you win some you lose some ;).
No one will win continuously forever

It may be the end yet. But LYB may need to start worry. Look the the recent tourments.

MS - other than LD, who else? CJ does not prove himself as LD's successor yet.
WS - ZN, XXF no longer plays in every tournament final. And they even started losing in early rounds. ZL won WC, but she has been inconsistent.
MD - Tan/Koo and MD from INA seem to able to find ways beat Cai/Fu.
WD - Still dominate, but othen than Zhang Yawen, the rest are not young any more.
XD - Gao/Bo and Widianto/Natsir are 50/50.

yeap! :D true enough! :D

heh Xball, its ok they can laugh (people like you) but its only going to be tears on your face when your whole national team gets wiped off the face of the planet in next year's olympics

and where does your national team stand? :D:D:D:D:D

and where does your national team stand? :D:D:D:D:D


I bet he is an emigrant from China, definitely not ex Malaysian from the way he talks.:D

I think China team is pacing themself so that they peak at the right time.

They will analyzed the competition before the Olympics.
They have less than a year left...so therefore they are writing a scouting report on all their competition. Most of the opponents tendencies will be well known by now.

So far their weakness seems to be the Men's doubles with the slide of Cai/Fu. And they don't have a top 2nd pair yet. Other than that, I don't see why China will not dominate the world of Badminton.

When I saw BCL giving tips to LD, and LD giving tips to XXF, It seems that China is not giving their 100%, would they do that in the olympic ?. Anyway, a win is a win, congratulations to the winners.
When LYB is not around to coach or support, he's saying his player will lose.

Guys its a game, you win some you lose some ;).
No one will win continuously forever
You're right.LD's starting to realise...That's why his tournament attitude now is to play his best rather than play to win.

I bet he is an emigrant from China, definitely not ex Malaysian from the way he talks.:D

just read his previous post then you will know-

'LCW is gonna find himself crying over losing to Lin Dan and then i can step on his name some more = )'

The key here is not so much whether China can continue their dominance, but rather whether other countries can sustain their challenge.

I mean 5-6 years down the road, I'm quite certain China will show case 1-2 LD's calibre players, but can Malaysia produce another LCW or can Indonesia produce another TH to continue the challenge?

The key here is not so much whether China can continue their dominance, but rather whether other countries can sustain their challenge.

I mean 5-6 years down the road, I'm quite certain China will show case 1-2 LD's calibre players, but can Malaysia produce another LCW or can Indonesia produce another TH to continue the challenge?
Next will be Nguyen Tieh Minh (VIE), Chan Yan Kit (HK), Simon n Andre (INA), Anup (IND), Poompat (THA), Kendrick (SIN), Arif (MAS).....:D:D:D

Next will be Nguyen Tieh Minh (VIE), Chan Yan Kit (HK), Simon n Andre (INA), Anup (IND), Poompat (THA), Kendrick (SIN), Arif (MAS).....:D:D:D

U forget to add Monkey on the list :mad::mad:

You're right.LD's starting to realise...That's why his tournament attitude now is to play his best rather than play to win.

Wonder will LD adopt the same kinda attitude during next year Beijing Olumpics :rolleyes: :D:D

The key here is not so much whether China can continue their dominance, but rather whether other countries can sustain their challenge.

I mean 5-6 years down the road, I'm quite certain China will show case 1-2 LD's calibre players, but can Malaysia produce another LCW or can Indonesia produce another TH to continue the challenge?
Beg to differ here. It takes 3 years of international experience to produce a champion. Right now CHN MS is only CJ from his batch.INA has SDK and SS who can upset CJ.MAS has a few promising ones,still very much getting exposure. CHN MS 5-6 years later looks outnumbered by non-CHN...
CHN's dominance the last few years are due to a combination of factors:
1. OSS
2. Draw criteria(before introduction of SS)
3. LYB's creative manipulation when opportunities arise
1. OSS favours players with excellent stamina more than skill.
2. Pre-SS draw criteria favours high ranking players with easy early stage matches so they only need to work during the final stages.
3. In final stage all-CHN matches, LYB has the privilege to influence the outcome so that the ranking points can be protected.
Before SS, all the factors favour CHN's make up , so most of the time they win.
Since SS, CHN still wins but so significantly less that LYB knows there's no guarantee of sure wins anymore.The trend indicates CHn's having trouble containing the challenge of non-CHN. The non-CHN onslaught is starting to break CHN down, slowly but surely.
I don't think CHN can stem the tide.

look at current world ranking
it still more red colour flag with a yellow stars in MS, WS, WD
they're still the conquerer

look at current world ranking
it still more red colour flag with a yellow stars in MS, WS, WD
they're still the conquerer

the other red is coming up real soon..........:p:p:p:p

whatever happens,abonded what other ppl says,i really hope the title of this discussion is a fact.I'll pray for that.sounds unfair for china but ...what can i say?

Another interesting topic. Nobody seems to have touched on the fact that at 28 Tine Rasmussen has never come close to pulling off a result like this one. She has always been a good player, but certainly one that you would never believe could beat 5 chinese players to win a major tournament.

I think the super series has changed the dynamics of the big events to some degree, no soft draws against someone ranked 67 in the world anymore, so it will be interesting to see the results over the next year or so.

Will China continue to dominate? I think for the foreseeable future yes, they still have the biggest player pool by a long long way, due to the fact that they start and train hard at a younger age than many other nations, and of course when you have a population of 1.3 billion you have an enormous head start. Compare this to the other major nations Indonesia 234m, Malaysia 25m, Denmark just 5.5m, United Kingdom 60m, it is a massive advantage.

One thing that is almost certain though, eventually the dynasty will fall, in all walks of life things go in cycles, and some day another country will be the major force in the sport, who knows when or for how long? Nobody thought the Roman empire would fall but of course it did.

For now though the chinese fans should be able to sleep at night knowing they are pretty much guaranteed to pick up at least 2 of the 5 titles at every major tournament for the time being.

For the long term benefit of the sport the quicker the rest of the world can catch up, and challenge the chinese for honours the more secure the future of the game will be.

Will China continue to dominate? I think for the foreseeable future yes, they still have the biggest player pool by a long long way, due to the fact that they start and train hard at a younger age than many other nations, and of course when you have a population of 1.3 billion you have an enormous head start. Compare this to the other major nations Indonesia 234m, Malaysia 25m, Denmark just 5.5m, United Kingdom 60m, it is a massive advantage.

One thing that is almost certain though, eventually the dynasty will fall, in all walks of life things go in cycles, and some day another country will be the major force in the sport, who knows when or for how long? Nobody thought the Roman empire would fall but of course it did.

For now though the chinese fans should be able to sleep at night knowing they are pretty much guaranteed to pick up at least 2 of the 5 titles at every major tournament for the time being.

For the long term benefit of the sport the quicker the rest of the world can catch up, and challenge the chinese for honours the more secure the future of the game will be.[/quote]

very well said :). i guess we should all wait at the end of the year and make a summation of the number of titles won by each participating nation and then we can safely conclude the country who really dominates the professional badminton world. there are still a number of tournaments and it's too early to say if China is indeed losing its grip as the real powerhouse in badminton as of date.;)

Another interesting topic. Nobody seems to have touched on the fact that at 28 Tine Rasmussen has never come close to pulling off a result like this one. She has always been a good player, but certainly one that you would never believe could beat 5 chinese players to win a major tournament.

I think the super series has changed the dynamics of the big events to some degree, no soft draws against someone ranked 67 in the world anymore, so it will be interesting to see the results over the next year or so.

Will China continue to dominate? I think for the foreseeable future yes, they still have the biggest player pool by a long long way, due to the fact that they start and train hard at a younger age than many other nations, and of course when you have a population of 1.3 billion you have an enormous head start. Compare this to the other major nations Indonesia 234m, Malaysia 25m, Denmark just 5.5m, United Kingdom 60m, it is a massive advantage.

One thing that is almost certain though, eventually the dynasty will fall, in all walks of life things go in cycles, and some day another country will be the major force in the sport, who knows when or for how long? Nobody thought the Roman empire would fall but of course it did.

For now though the chinese fans should be able to sleep at night knowing they are pretty much guaranteed to pick up at least 2 of the 5 titles at every major tournament for the time being.

For the long term benefit of the sport the quicker the rest of the world can catch up, and challenge the chinese for honours the more secure the future of the game will be.

yes, but you can't count the whole population of China as the "badminton population", since a large proportion of chinese are still facing the poverty problem and badminton is not as popular as other chinese traditional sports, eg. the number registation of soccer player in BeiJing is about 900 which is nothing compared with Brazil. and for majority of chinese, their first choice is table tennis. the wage and bonus a badminton player can earn are less than 1% of that a table tennis player can earn in china. Most of the table tennis players in China have BMW, posh, etc.

I'm sorry to say but the results of the recently concluded Taiwan Open confirms this. :(

;)

With Only CH the sole representative.. That is 1 out of 100% is failed.. Not a bad results though

I'm sorry to say but the results of the recently concluded Taiwan Open confirms this. :(

;)

Cant' be used as a benchmark as the entire Chinese team were withdrawn.;)

Cant' be used as a benchmark as the entire Chinese team were withdrawn.;)
It was an unprecedented whitewash. ;)

yes, but you can't count the whole population of China as the "badminton population", since a large proportion of chinese are still facing the poverty problem and badminton is not as popular as other chinese traditional sports, eg. the number registation of soccer player in BeiJing is about 900 which is nothing compared with Brazil. and for majority of chinese, their first choice is table tennis. the wage and bonus a badminton player can earn are less than 1% of that a table tennis player can earn in china. Most of the table tennis players in China have BMW, posh, etc.
Given that badminton is more widely played worldwide than TT, in fact baddy is 2nd most played sport in the world after soccer...that is a very interesting statement you made that TT players makes 100% of baddy players wage in CHN...where did you find the facts, I really would like to know.....

Given that badminton is more widely played worldwide than TT, in fact baddy is 2nd most played sport in the world after soccer...that is a very interesting statement you made that TT players makes 100% of baddy players wage in CHN...where did you find the facts, I really would like to know.....

danyang is correct... The table tennis players are driving BMW etc. In Chinese badminton... only LYB is driving a sports car.

Why? Because the table tennis association chose the route of tennis in the western world: the players can get as many individual endorsements as possible...

While in Chinese badminton, the team manager has all the power to choose to not individualize endorsements... instead all the deals goes to the team manager and association... Notice the uniforms of the Chinese players: Yonex, Fedex, Dow. Everybody the same. :rolleyes: [Like Indonesia too, actually... :o :o, we're not much better... :crying: :crying:]

Results: ya, you know laaah... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Table tennis players earn much more in China not because table tennis much more popular, but because tabel tennis has a professional League where the best players fight each other.

danyang is correct... The table tennis players are driving BMW etc. In Chinese badminton... only LYB is driving a sports car.

Why? Because the table tennis association chose the route of tennis in the western world: the players can get as many individual endorsements as possible...

While in Chinese badminton, the team manager has all the power to choose to not individualize endorsements... instead all the deals goes to the team manager and association... Notice the uniforms of the Chinese players: Yonex, Fedex, Dow. Everybody the same. :rolleyes: [Like Indonesia too, actually... :o :o, we're not much better... :crying: :crying:]

Results: ya, you know laaah... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Really don't see that happening. LD was already a top player back in 2001, was World No. 1 around that time, and could really trouble/beat top players like JXP, LYG, TH, PR, etc.. It is similar for other good players in China, CH, BCL, XXZ, DJ, SJ, ZJH and YY. All became top players at about 20, if not before.

So if anyone in China could be the next LD in 5-6 years, he should already have shown some of his brilliance now. We don't see anyone right? (Personally I think CJ can never be as good as LD)


I mean 5-6 years down the road, I'm quite certain China will show case 1-2 LD's calibre players, but can Malaysia produce another LCW or can Indonesia produce another TH to continue the challenge?

yes, but you can't count the whole population of China as the "badminton population", since a large proportion of chinese are still facing the poverty problem and badminton is not as popular as other chinese traditional sports, eg. the number registation of soccer player in BeiJing is about 900 which is nothing compared with Brazil. and for majority of chinese, their first choice is table tennis. the wage and bonus a badminton player can earn are less than 1% of that a table tennis player can earn in china. Most of the table tennis players in China have BMW, posh, etc.
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No of course the population is not all a badminton playing population, but this is true of every country, here in England football is by far the biggest participant sport, Badminton is according to Badminton England the 8th most played sport, with between 800 and 900 thousand people playing each month. Look at Denmark, they are by far the most impressive performers, they have a tiny population, but do exceptionally well and have done so for many many years.
So the only basis you can start from is the gross population statistic.

The biggest danger to chinese badminton, and probably to most countries is a major growth of another sport that can eat into the potential talent pool.

The best example I can come up with is in the West Indies, where 20 years ago they had a formidable cricket team, now the americanisation of the islands has dragged away many potential cricketers to play baseball (sad but true, baseball for gods sake!! ) To a lesser extent football has also taken away many potential cricketers. Now they have a very poor cricket team, and this is due to the poor management of the sport in the Caribbean, and an inability to compete with the newcomers.

This is a danger to badminton in many countries, if the national organisations take their eye off the ball then they could lose out to other sports, the globalisation of football is a major threat in many markets.

National associations beware !!!!!

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No of course the population is not all a badminton playing population, but this is true of every country, here in England football is by far the biggest participant sport, Badminton is according to Badminton England the 8th most played sport, with between 800 and 900 thousand people playing each month. Look at Denmark, they are by far the most impressive performers, they have a tiny population, but do exceptionally well and have done so for many many years.
So the only basis you can start from is the gross population statistic.

The biggest danger to chinese badminton, and probably to most countries is a major growth of another sport that can eat into the potential talent pool.

The best example I can come up with is in the West Indies, where 20 years ago they had a formidable cricket team, now the americanisation of the islands has dragged away many potential cricketers to play baseball (sad but true, baseball for gods sake!! ) To a lesser extent football has also taken away many potential cricketers. Now they have a very poor cricket team, and this is due to the poor management of the sport in the Caribbean, and an inability to compete with the newcomers.

This is a danger to badminton in many countries, if the national organisations take their eye off the ball then they could lose out to other sports, the globalisation of football is a major threat in many markets.

National associations beware !!!!!good point but china is slightly different, it has lots more people. They can afford to lose some talented people to other sports but should has lots more eagered people to enter badminton to compete with other countries

good point but china is slightly different, it has lots more people. They can afford to lose some talented people to other sports but should has lots more eagered people to enter badminton to compete with other countries

To a degree yes, but why take the risk, complacency could cost you a Lin Dan or Gao Ling to another sport. You should always stay ahead of the game, or you could just find yourself in trouble.

As they say : Easy Come Easy Go. What does it matter if it is one game - next game China might win it back (not that I want to see that but I have to face reality). But it is more exciting if other countries win too. Nevertheless, I want LCW to continue winning.:D

Any prediction when LCW will win another tournament ?

Any prediction when LCW will win another tournament ?
3 or 4 weeks later.
LCW is a most dangerous foe when he is rested, restless and hungry.This means he miust be highly selective about his tournaments.

just read his previous post then you will know-

'LCW is gonna find himself crying over losing to Lin Dan and then i can step on his name some more = )'

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Any prediction when LCW will win another tournament ?

if it can be predicted.....it wouldnt be our favourite LCW then......;) right?

Any prediction when LCW will win another tournament ?

Haha, you must be bored. My prediction is based on my information about the player. If he trains well, then I know his heart is in it. After WC, he had a convo with the BAM boss, and I knew he came out very motivated -- hence JO was a possibility (as you know, nothing is certain in life).

The good news is he has proven his mettle and now with a bit of rest and some more fine tuning, what is to say he would not perform again in Denmark ?

hi all i'm new here..
let be wise and mature..
i remember that in japan open 2002 or 2003 before the athens olympc...the chinese even don't won any tittle there..but they still managed to win 3 gold in athens..
so let it flows....
don't judge by this jo tournament..
i think that badminton is more competitive now..and just enjoy it...

The best example I can come up with is in the West Indies, where 20 years ago they had a formidable cricket team, now the americanisation of the islands has dragged away many potential cricketers to play baseball (sad but true, baseball for gods sake!! ) To a lesser extent football has also taken away many potential cricketers. Now they have a very poor cricket team, and this is due to the poor management of the sport in the Caribbean, and an inability to compete with the newcomers.

It's actually commercialisation of sport, not americanisation, that lures people away to better-paying disciplines. :)
(Korea and Singapore are glaring examples... youngsters seem to prefer baseball and basketball to badminton. It raises their peer profile, makes them think they are 'like the Americans' and empowers them in a strange sort of way.) ;)
Rather than beware of baseball and football, what badminton honchos need to do is make the sport more saleable.
More revenues means more tournaments, better players, vastly higher skills and more excitement.
Perhaps, that might begin a reverse-run... people taking up badminton and abandoning baseball and football. :rolleyes:

It's actually commercialisation of sport, not americanisation, that lures people away to better-paying disciplines. :)
(Korea and Singapore are glaring examples... youngsters seem to prefer baseball and basketball to badminton. It raises their peer profile, makes them think they are 'like the Americans' and empowers them in a strange sort of way.) ;)
Rather than beware of baseball and football, what badminton honchos need to do is make the sport more saleable.
More revenues means more tournaments, better players, vastly higher skills and more excitement.
Perhaps, that might begin a reverse-run... people taking up badminton and abandoning baseball and football. :rolleyes:

If we can 'americanise' Badminton, perhaps the game will become popular but it will never happen.:D

If we can 'americanise' Badminton, perhaps the game will become popular but it will never happen.:D

then maybe we should "europeanise" it......., but it will never happen.:D:D:D:D

then maybe we should "europeanise" it......., but it will never happen.:D:D:D:D


No you are wrong, it is already Europeanised (just count the no.of European countries participating in the WC) but it did not work (but maybe it is too early to tell, especially when Kournikova is rumoured to take up badminton and giving up tennis).:D

No you are wrong, it is already Europeanised (just count the no.of European countries participating in the WC) but it did not work (but maybe it is too early to tell, especially when Kournikova is rumoured to take up badminton and giving up tennis).:D

:eek:Are you serious?? Or you a daydreamer :cool: :p

I think CHN badminton team is facing another time to "adjust" to the new things, such as NSS and SS. Clearly, the non CHN veterans adopted to the new things better than the CHN younger generations (especially MS and WS). Why? Because such non CHN veterans have more chances to get a taste of higher level competition.

For the CHN young generations, either they don't have enough chance to play due to their older brothers and sisters, or they don't have consistant performance due to NSS (require more experience and mental strength).

However, with a rich history of how they adopt to a new system, CHN has its chance to storm back to re-capture their flag of "dominance". Remember, besides WS, their prime power are still in prime age, and 2-3 yrs more, you will see some young guns capture the gold medal, which we hardly even knew their name today. ;)

If we can 'americanise' Badminton, perhaps the game will become popular but it will never happen.:D
Serve. Rally. Point won. *music jingle, "SSSSSmmmmmasshhhheeeddddd!!" *

Serve. Rally. Point won. *music jingle, "Yo, word to you momma!" *

Serve. Rally. Point won. *music jingle, "Ella ella ella eh eh eh eh" *

Spectators chant. *favourite player under attack "Deee-fense, boom boom, deee-fense!".

Serve. Rally. Point won. *music jingle, Addams Family as rally goes on*

Serve. Rally. Point won. *music jingle, announcer goes "POWWWW into the upper ninety!" as the shuttle hits the baseline right on the corner point*

Match won. *cheerleaders (emmmm....) and mascot dance in center court*

Lucky spectator selected to smash a shuttle into target *loud music jingle*

On television commentators take a break as the main sponsors had their advertisment on repeatedly for a couple of minutes, "The 2009 China Open was brought to you by Gillette, the best man can get".

Superimposed advertisement graphics float over courts with drop shadows.

Spectators make a beeline to the fast food kiosks at the end of the stadium, buying and eating their overpriced burgers, chilli dogs and Diet Coke.

Little ones pranced around happy with Mr Baddy Bear plush toy in their hands.

--

6 months later stadium organisers go bankrupt.

hahahhahaa.............nice.

However, with a rich history of how they adopt to a new system, CHN has its chance to storm back to re-capture their flag of "dominance". Remember, besides WS, their prime power are still in prime age, and 2-3 yrs more, you will see some young guns capture the gold medal, which we hardly even knew their name today. ;)
..CHN squad, esp. the Women's field, IS NOT going anywhere and they'll still dominate the rest of the competition..:p;)

They still will..CH got one definite advantage than others..young great seeds,that's good enough to replace the older ones.But i am preety sure,that LD's era gonna end sometime soon.Either he's gonna be replaced by CJ or BCL.


My opinion:

MS:The biggest competition in CH team got is this MS.U can name the players,like TH,PG,BP,LCW.The man,LD got skills,speed..everything physical that an athlete needs..but he's lack of will to win.One thing for sure..LYB doesnt want that.Besides,it's not hard to find a replacement for LD.They have 3 other players that stands in the world's big 10.=P.Just hope that they can also stand the competition.

WS..no heavy opponents that scares them enough to get them off this dominance.They dont have any strong competition in WS.

WD..This young pair is definitely the strongest of all rite now.The great offense lead by FHF,and a great defense by CY,that's all u need in the double.However,the competition is quite tight in WD.But somehow,i think they can maintain their position as the top at least till after the Olympic.

WS:The competition might be exist from some opponents..but they will still survive n stand at the top.

XD:INA is still their biggest opponent in the game.But they still have an advantage in this.Their performance is more stable than the INA team.


So,i guess,if the other countries r trying to take over CH domination..do it exactly on the rite time.Do it in the Olympic,rite at their homeground.Bring the biggest force to compete with them.Break LYB's arrogance,thinking they're the best n no one stands a chance to compete with them.

Some corrections:
MD..This young pair (not so young anymore...esp Cai Yun at 27 yo) is definitely the strongest of all rite now.The great offense lead by FHF,and a great defense by CY,that's all u need in the double.However,the competition is quite tight in WD.But somehow,i think they can maintain their position as the top at least till after the Olympic.

WD:The competition might be exist from some opponents..but they will still survive n stand at the top.

This is for those China Fans :
Seriously, I think china will still a dominant force in badminton for many years to come.. I believe only a minority of fans jumping of the boat now...

Let me share something else than badminton here :
In the SEA games , even the committee members has set a rule to bar MAS top players NICOL DAVID & ONG BENG HEE for competing. They even threatened to withdraw this event from the SEA games ...

MAS, as the regional powerhouse in SQUASH.. are expected to romp home TWO GUARANTEE GOLD Medals in MS & WS events respectively.
SRAM never over react on this & instead sending their Backup Squad players for the sake of gamesmanship ...
Eventually, both their Men & Women singles returned home with a gold each... Never forget, Singapore & INA also do have several promising Squash players in the region......

Tine Rasmussen beat XieXingfang (World champion for 2 times)
Lu Lan
Zhang Ning (World champion + Olympic champion)
Jang Yanjiao (Asian Champion)
Xu Huaiwen (European Champion)

So Tine is the world champion + olympic champion + european champion = the ultimate champion.

Camilla only beat 3 chinese players to win her All england

But tine beat 5 chinese players and they are the best of the best.

History is created again after the collapse of chinese ladies in WD china masters

If the "combo title" analysis does stand, then I don't know how ZN's resume will look. She might be able to claim 10 WC (as 8 or 9 from others), 5 OC (4 from others), 8 SC, 10 UC, 10 AC, and unlimited Opens.

Of course, the next one beat ZN is even more impressive, as she then has ZN + 1 titles... :D

It is nice sometimes to make China's fans feel a little bit worried about their players.something that can make me feel so good.
China now is the power of recent badminton world. and i dont think there's is anyone who can doubt it.
And what other countries have to do is BEAT them.in all aspects.how they trained their athletes?i cannot compare it with malaysia.
China's time will pass on.they will one day.and i hope it is malaysia who broke the tradition.i hope it is malysia who replace china.
and linDan will be always remembered as a legend .
but to say that the time is NOW,are u sure ?i dont have that confidence.

This is for those China Fans :
Seriously, I think china will still a dominant force in badminton for many years to come.. I believe only a minority of fans jumping of the boat now...

Let me share something else than badminton here :
In the SEA games , even the committee members has set a rule to bar MAS top players NICOL DAVID & ONG BENG HEE for competing. They even threatened to withdraw this event from the SEA games ...

MAS, as the regional powerhouse in SQUASH.. are expected to romp home TWO GUARANTEE GOLD Medals in MS & WS events respectively.
SRAM never over react on this & instead sending their Backup Squad players for the sake of gamesmanship ...
Eventually, both their Men & Women singles returned home with a gold each... Never forget, Singapore & INA also do have several promising Squash players in the region......
off -topic sikit..

in squasy,Singapore and indo still cannot beat malaysia.Have confidence on that and believe our players.

the next powerhouse in badminton after china will be................................................ .......INDIA!
haha

the next powerhouse in badminton after china will be................................................ .......INDIA!
haha

I think your point is a serious one. In another 20 years maybe India can become the most dominant badminton powerhouse... and surely not impossible given their country size and increasing economic power.

However, in the coming 10 years, INA and MAS are the closest contenders that can remove China as the dominant powerhouse...;) I give a slight edge to INA because we are already contenders in more categories [MS, MD, XD] than MAS [MS, MD] today... :D

I am one of those badminton fan that hopes India can become another powerhouse... because a rich India [20 years from now] will be a fertile ground for badminton business... which means more $$$ for everybody! :D Badminton needs the massive countries [like India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, USA, etc.] and continents to improve the overall badminton economics... :)

At least there's anup that i can count on.I love him!!!

Russia too one will be of the fans (male) favorite :p

I am one of those badminton fan that hopes India can become another powerhouse... because a rich India [20 years from now] will be a fertile ground for badminton business... which means more $$$ for everybody! :D Badminton needs the massive countries [like India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, USA, etc.] and continents to improve the overall badminton economics... :)
While I concur with you that for baddy to grow, it needs to break out from Asia and to penetrate north and south america, Russia, india etc. But I am pessimistic, yet I hope it will happen, that baddy becoming a mainstream sport and attract the $$$ needed to attract star performers anytime soon.
India has lots of rich people and computer related firms are prominent in India, so there should be no reason why the money is not there to support baddy players. India has the second biggest population in the world and how many great players she has produced...3 male and no female players so far if my guess is correct. We would expect Anup to get the $$$ support for his great performance in WC07, yet internationalbadminton.org reported Anup struggled to get a $9,000 sponsorship from a small software company in India despite his WC07 performance...sad. My respect and admiration to all baddy players who put so much of themselves into this sport for us all to enjoy for so small a reward.

what i have seen tells me: not yet

at least not in the MD department...........well at least for now.

Tony's WC half-title signifies the rise of US badminton? :confused: